From m.bakonyi at civit.de  Wed Aug  1 23:26:29 2012
From: m.bakonyi at civit.de (Michael Bakonyi)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:26:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (Un)subscribing list-members via GET-params
Message-ID: <47F5E220-BB1B-40A1-867E-E65C00BA471D@civit.de>

Hi all,

we have a mailinglist where we can't access the server via ssh due to missing permissions.

But we would like to import the list-members via script from another database. 

I found the following thread regarding the possibility to unsubscribe + subscribe users via GET-params which would offer the possibility for us to unsubscribe all (old) list-members at first + then subscribe all current members of the extern database via script:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041220.html

But I couldn't get this to work ? Mailman gives me a "Bug found in Mailman version 2.1.11".

Is this really a bug or is it just not possible anymore to (un)subscribe users like that?

Or does anyone of you see another trick to solve this task?

Cheers,
Michael


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  2 17:50:23 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:50:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (Un)subscribing list-members via GET-params
In-Reply-To: <47F5E220-BB1B-40A1-867E-E65C00BA471D@civit.de>
References: <47F5E220-BB1B-40A1-867E-E65C00BA471D@civit.de>
Message-ID: <501AA1BF.3000205@msapiro.net>

On 8/1/2012 2:26 PM, Michael Bakonyi wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> we have a mailinglist where we can't access the server via ssh due to missing permissions.
> 
> But we would like to import the list-members via script from another database. 
> 
> I found the following thread regarding the possibility to unsubscribe + subscribe users via GET-params which would offer the possibility for us to unsubscribe all (old) list-members at first + then subscribe all current members of the extern database via script:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041220.html


That is no different from posting via the Membership Management... ->
Mass Subscription/Mass Removal pages in the list's web admin interface.
Why not just do that in this case?


> But I couldn't get this to work ? Mailman gives me a "Bug found in Mailman version 2.1.11".
> 
> Is this really a bug or is it just not possible anymore to (un)subscribe users like that?


If you could provide the Mailman error log entry related to this, we
could probably determine what the issue is, but since you apparently
don't have access, you probably can't do that.

We might be able to say something if you posted the exact wget command
(or http GET request) you used.


> Or does anyone of you see another trick to solve this task?


Is there some reason you can't use the web admin Mass Subscribe/Mass
Remove pages for this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sweepslate at gmail.com  Fri Aug  3 11:43:54 2012
From: sweepslate at gmail.com (sweepslate)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:43:54 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I keep getting a subcription request notification
 after accepting a user
Message-ID: <501B9D5A.2010700@gmail.com>

I set up a small list and so far three to four addresses have subscribed.

My problem is I keep getting the notification for my latest subscriber, 
over and over again, although I have accepted his subscription. When I 
go to the admin interface, I see that there are no pending requests.

This is the notification I recieve:

--- snip begin ---
The list at example.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
consideration at:

	http://example.org/mailman/admindb/list_example.org
	
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

Pending subscriptions:
     user at yahoo.com (john smith) Thu Jun 21 20:17:29 2012
--- snip end ---

Any ideas?

From farokh at mcfsoftware.com  Fri Aug  3 04:00:12 2012
From: farokh at mcfsoftware.com (Farokh Irani)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 22:00:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_members script.
Message-ID: <501B30AC.30204@mcfsoftware.com>

Has anyone modified the list_members script to get the passwords for the 
members?

Would anyone be interested in that? I needed to get the list of members 
for a list with the passwords, but I couldn't find anything to do that 
easily, so I hacked the list_members script to do it and I thought that 
others might be interested in that.

Farokh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCF Software...simply dependably engineered
For all your computer and networking needs including hosting solutions
for every need.
Phone: 845-735-0210
Cell: 914-262-1594


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  3 15:48:56 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:48:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I keep getting a subcription request
	notificationafter accepting a user
In-Reply-To: <501B9D5A.2010700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120803064856000187aff439@Notebook-09>

sweepslate wrote:
>
>My problem is I keep getting the notification for my latest subscriber, 
>over and over again, although I have accepted his subscription. When I 
>go to the admin interface, I see that there are no pending requests.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sweepslate at gmail.com  Sat Aug  4 11:13:17 2012
From: sweepslate at gmail.com (sweepslate)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:13:17 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I keep getting a subcription request
 notificationafter accepting a user
In-Reply-To: <PC19520120803064856000187aff439@Notebook-09>
References: <PC19520120803064856000187aff439@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <501CE7AD.9090307@gmail.com>

Thank you.

On 8/3/2012 4:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> sweepslate wrote:
>>
>> My problem is I keep getting the notification for my latest subscriber,
>> over and over again, although I have accepted his subscription. When I
>> go to the admin interface, I see that there are no pending requests.
>
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.
>

From lucio at sulweb.org  Tue Aug  7 10:47:54 2012
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:47:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
Message-ID: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>

Hello *,

I'm new here. I run a few mailman lists on a Debian server. I've been using 
mailman for a few years now but I'm no expert (it's "too" easy, anyone can use 
it without understanding much of it).

Now I'm facing this problem:

http://tinyurl.com/c9pn9sk
http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=it&answer=6588

There's a fact that makes me think a solution has to exist: I've run a few 
mailman lists on a different debian server until a few months ago and they did 
not have this problem. A friend of mine is currently running a few lists on 
yet another debian server and those do not have the gmail "feature" as of 
today.

I suspect gmail applies that feature only to some lists/domains/servers. The 
question is: what's the rule? How can you be so lucky as to fall in the lists 
gmail does not "block"? I fear the reply is "you can't".

So, next question: is there any unofficial, untested, underground, YMMV patch 
for mailman that masks/forges the messages copy to the sender so that gmail 
does not recognize it as such and lets it through?

Thanks in advance
Lucio.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug  7 13:31:42 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 20:31:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <877gtbsztt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lucio Crusca writes:

 > Now I'm facing this problem:
 > 
 > http://tinyurl.com/c9pn9sk
 > http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=it&answer=6588
 > 
 > There's a fact that makes me think a solution has to exist: I've
 > run a few mailman lists on a different debian server until a few
 > months ago and they did not have this problem.

Your fact is presumably due to some error in observation, since Gmail
acknowledges this behavior as a feature of Gmail.  It is simply not
possible to receive your own posts on Gmail; you can only keep the
Sent folder copy.

Are you sure you don't mean a different issue such as FAQ 3.42?

    http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030690

 > A friend of mine is currently running a few lists on yet another
 > debian server and those do not have the gmail "feature" as of
 > today.

Please recheck; if there's a reasonable way to get around this, there
are probably thousands of Gmail users who would love to do so.  But I
suspect you'll discover that Gmail users simply won't receive their
own posts from the list.

 > So, next question: is there any unofficial, untested, underground,
 > YMMV patch for mailman that masks/forges the messages copy to the
 > sender so that gmail does not recognize it as such and lets it
 > through?

I would imagine that you could change the Message-ID at the list, and
that might do the trick.  But that is strictly against the relevant
standards for mail.  Among other things, it would break deduplication
measures for all of your subscribers, not just posters.  It should be
possible to do it for the particular message sent to the poster only,
but that would be delicate.

Steve

From lucio at sulweb.org  Tue Aug  7 14:19:41 2012
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 12:19:41 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <877gtbsztt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<877gtbsztt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
>
> Your fact is presumably due to some error in observation, since Gmail
> acknowledges this behavior as a feature of Gmail.  It is simply not
> possible to receive your own posts on Gmail; you can only keep the
> Sent folder copy.

I can confirm my observation is correct. I have at least three gmail users
which I personally know that suffer from that "feature" on one of my lists
and don't experience the same problem on another list which is mailman
powered but hosted at a friend's server.

Other users started to experience the "feature" only when I migrated a
mailing list from a server to another and they notified me just after the
migration. I currently have a few examples of existing and running mailing
lists powered by mailman where gmail subscribers do receive their own
posts, this is one:

http://mailman.pinerolo.linux.it/mailman/listinfo/soci

Feel free to try subscribing to the above list and try posting from gmail.
It's an italian language list dedicated to our local linux users group,
but as far as you put an [OT] in the subject there are no problems.

>
> Are you sure you don't mean a different issue such as FAQ 3.42?
>
>     http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030690

Absolutely sure. Messages from the list are correctly delivered to gmail
subscribers, except the ones themselves sent.

> Please recheck; if there's a reasonable way to get around this, there
> are probably thousands of Gmail users who would love to do so.  But I
> suspect you'll discover that Gmail users simply won't receive their
> own posts from the list.

Like I said, I suspect it depends on the list. My current best guess is
that older lists (i.e. the ones that had been created before some time in
the past) don't hit the infamous feature, while newer ones do.

> I would imagine that you could change the Message-ID at the list, and
> that might do the trick. But that is strictly against the relevant
> standards for mail.

What's more against standards than throwing messages away like gmail does?
I wouldn't care too much if the patch concerned only gmail subscribers.

> It should be possible to do it for the particular message sent to the
> poster only, but that would be delicate.

Please elaborate. That would be the solution. I imagine something fairly
simple and not very intrusive, like adding something like this somewhere
in the mailman code:

msg = create_message_copy(message)

if msg.recipient == msg.sender &&
   is_option_active(workaround_gmail_feature) &&
   domain(msg.recipient) == "gmail"
       # do whatever delicate and nasty on msg
       # in order to have it delivered.
       # At worst, it won't be delivered anyway...
endif

send_message(msg)





From brad at fineby.me.uk  Tue Aug  7 14:44:09 2012
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:44:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<877gtbsztt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <20120807134409.7d763f94@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 12:19:41 -0000
"Lucio Crusca" <lucio at sulweb.org> wrote:

Hello Lucio,

>Like I said, I suspect it depends on the list. My current best guess is
>that older lists (i.e. the ones that had been created before some time
>in the past) don't hit the infamous feature, while newer ones do.

Gmail has *always* been that way.  There is a workaround.  Maybe it is
employed (if only by accident) on the lists you mention.  It is required
that the list be set up with the following;

Receive: list.foo.bar
Send: smtp.foo.bar 

and then add the header;

Reply to: list.foo.bar

I got this from another list I'm subbed to, have never done it myself so
can't say for sure it's correct, but have no reason to doubt the source.

See http://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/002752.html
and a few surrounding messages for some context.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Kill joy, bad guy, big talking, small fry
Death On Two Legs - Queen
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug  7 20:26:28 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 03:26:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<877gtbsztt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
Message-ID: <87y5lqsgmj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lucio Crusca writes:

 > Feel free to try subscribing to the above list and try posting from
 > gmail.

OK, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.  I need to sleep after
that last goal by Mexico. :-(

 > Like I said, I suspect it depends on the list. My current best guess is
 > that older lists (i.e. the ones that had been created before some time in
 > the past) don't hit the infamous feature, while newer ones do.

That's definitely wrong.  I've been a gmail user for at least 5 years,
occasionally posting to various mailing lists of which some have been
in existence for more than 20 years, with the oldest Mailman
installation being 13 years old (but Mailman has been upgraded
regularly, of course).

 > What's more against standards than throwing messages away like
 > gmail does?  I wouldn't care too much if the patch concerned only
 > gmail subscribers.

Sorry, but you're wrong.  Gmail is an MUA, there are no RFCs for what
it should do with messages it receives, only for the wire format to
use when sending and interpret when receiving.  If users don't like
what it does, there are plenty of other MUAs.

To the extent that the RFCs apply, Gmail is perfectly within the
standards.  Two messages that have the same Message-ID are presumed to
be the same message by the RFCs.

Gmail also provides MTA services.  If someone uses a different MUA to
send via Gmail's SMTP server, I believe they would receive that
message via the list as the Gmail MUA wouldn't have a copy.  Is that a
possible explanation?

 > Please elaborate. That would be the solution. I imagine something fairly
 > simple and not very intrusive, like adding something like this somewhere
 > in the mailman code:

If you're willing to do it for all recipients but only for posts from
Gmail users, you can do it in a Handler, pretty much anywhere in the
pipeline.  I consider that non-intrusive and relatively benign because
everybody's copy will have the same Message-ID for threading, Gmane
searching, and the like.

If you do it only for the Gmail-using subscriber, you'll probably
screw up his threading because his copy of the message will have a
different Message-ID from what everybody else refers to.  I find that
to be pretty intrusive.

Also, as far as I know, doing that would require doing surgery on the
personalization code, after the handoff to the outgoing queue runner.
I'm not willing to advise you on that, I don't know that part of the
code at all.


From lucio at sulweb.org  Wed Aug  8 09:09:22 2012
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 09:09:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <20120807134409.7d763f94@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
	<20120807134409.7d763f94@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <201208080909.22316.lucio@sulweb.org>

Brad Rogers writes:
> Gmail has *always* been that way.  There is a workaround.  Maybe it is
> employed (if only by accident) on the lists you mention.  It is required
> that the list be set up with the following;
> 
> Receive: list.foo.bar

Ok, I think the example fits my case (3rd level domain is "lists" in my case).

> Send: smtp.foo.bar

Does that mean that I must have an external (from my mailman server point of 
view) smtp server? That would explain everything, but that would also leave me 
without a dime, because I can't reasonably identify another meaningful SMTP 
server to act as smart relay for my smtp server. And no, purposely setting one 
up is not an option, at least for me.

> 
> and then add the header;
> 
> Reply to: list.foo.bar

Already done since when I created my lists (I almost always set 
"reply_goes_to_list" option to the list itself, unrespectful of big fat 
warnings mailman shows about reply-to munging considered harmful).

> 
> I got this from another list I'm subbed to, have never done it myself so
> can't say for sure it's correct, but have no reason to doubt the source.
> 
> See http://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/002752.html
> and a few surrounding messages for some context.

I've read the whole thread, thanks. Unfortunately it does not reply to my 
questions above, but maybe you have undestood the exact meaning of those 
words.

From lucio at sulweb.org  Wed Aug  8 09:32:41 2012
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 09:32:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <87y5lqsgmj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
	<87y5lqsgmj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
> Lucio Crusca writes:
>  > Feel free to try subscribing to the above list and try posting from
>  > gmail.
> 
> OK, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.  I need to sleep after
> that last goal by Mexico. :-(

Probably you don't need to try anymore (see Brad Rogers' post).

> That's definitely wrong.  I've been a gmail user for at least 5 years

You're right, Brad gave a clue about what's going on and his reply fits 
perfectly my observation.

>  > What's more against standards than throwing messages away like
>  > gmail does?  I wouldn't care too much if the patch concerned only
>  > gmail subscribers.
> 
> Sorry, but you're wrong.  Gmail is an MUA, 

Actually I already suspected that no RFC said what a MUA should do with 
messages. However Gmail is accessible via POP/IMAP also. AFAICT the same 
messages are lost also when accessing gmail via POP/IMAP, and in that case 
GMail is not only a MUA and it does break standards.

However that's not the real point. My sentence meant that if the patch were to 
violate standards only for gmail users that want it (e.g. users that activate 
an option in their mailman preferences panel), then that violation is less of 
a problem, at least from those users point of view, when compared to messages 
automatically being thrown away by gmail.

About the fact that you can always use a different MUA, unfortunately in many 
cases that's only theory. In practice changing your email address translates 
in a loss of time and often money. Either way, Gmail is not only a MUA.

>  > Please elaborate. That would be the solution. I imagine something fairly
>  > simple and not very intrusive, like adding something like this somewhere
> 
>  > in the mailman code:
> If you're willing to do it for all recipients but only for posts from
> Gmail users, 

No, I'm willing to do it only for gmail users that activate the relevant 
option in their mailman preferences. I think that doing it for anyone outside 
the users that explicitly ask for it is invasive and dangerous.

> you can do it in a Handler, pretty much anywhere in the
> pipeline.  I consider that non-intrusive and relatively benign because
> everybody's copy will have the same Message-ID for threading, Gmane
> searching, and the like.

I agree that could work well, but I don't understand email standards enough to 
feel comfortable in modifying message headers of outgoing mail for all 
subscribers.

> If you do it only for the Gmail-using subscriber, you'll probably
> screw up his threading because his copy of the message will have a
> different Message-ID from what everybody else refers to.  I find that
> to be pretty intrusive.

You are absolutely right. Probably changing Message-Id is not the best way to 
workaround that "feature" when applied only to the copy for the original 
poster. I wonder if there are any other headers that can be changed, only in 
the message copy for the original poster, that do the job.

> Also, as far as I know, doing that would require doing surgery on the
> personalization code, after the handoff to the outgoing queue runner.
> I'm not willing to advise you on that, I don't know that part of the
> code at all.

Ok, before that I need to identify correct headers to change anyway, assuming 
they exist...

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Wed Aug  8 16:08:03 2012
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:08:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <201208080909.22316.lucio@sulweb.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
	<20120807134409.7d763f94@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<201208080909.22316.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <20120808150803.6bf19258@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 09:09:22 +0200
Lucio Crusca <lucio at sulweb.org> wrote:

Hello Lucio,

>Brad Rogers writes:
>> Send: smtp.foo.bar
>Does that mean that I must have an external (from my mailman server
>point of view) smtp server? That would explain everything, but that

I believe so, yes.  I only run one list, and don't have sufficient
access rights to "play" with this to find out.  Like you, I have limited
funds, so can't buy my list out of this situation.

>> Reply to: list.foo.bar
>Already done since when I created my lists (I almost always set 
>"reply_goes_to_list" option to the list itself, unrespectful of big 
>warnings mailman shows about reply-to munging considered harmful).

I don't set it, but there are arguments both for and against.  It's up
to each of us to make up our own minds.

>> See http://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/002752.html
>> and a few surrounding messages for some context.
>I've read the whole thread, thanks. Unfortunately it does not reply to
>my questions above, but maybe you have undestood the exact meaning of
>those words.

Yes, we were diverging from the real subject of the thread, and I never
pursued the matter any further.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Black man got a lot of problems, but he don't mind throwing a brick
White Riot - The Clash
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug  9 08:11:59 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:11:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
	<87y5lqsgmj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lucio Crusca writes:

 > Actually I already suspected that no RFC said what a MUA should do with 
 > messages. However Gmail is accessible via POP/IMAP also. AFAICT the same 
 > messages are lost also when accessing gmail via POP/IMAP, and in that case 
 > GMail is not only a MUA and it does break standards.

I don't think so.  Perhaps "MUA" is the wrong term for a message store
"in the cloud", but the fact is that Gmail is the final recipient as
far as the RFCs are concerned.  Eg, IMAP servers often implement SIEVE
recipes and spam filtering, so some messages will be lost.

In any case, no messages are lost; only copies with different
meta-data.

I don't really disagree with you that Gmail's behavior is horrible.
My point is that if you think its behavior is non-conforming, you may
be in for other, even less pleasant surprises in the future.

 > About the fact that you can always use a different MUA,
 > unfortunately in many cases that's only theory.

I can't say I have a lot of sympathy.  You get Gmail for free, you
shouldn't think it comes with no strings attached.

 > No, I'm willing to do it only for gmail users that activate the
 > relevant option in their mailman preferences.

I think that's best, but I can't help you with implementing that kind
of thing (in principle I know what to do, but I don't have time to
nail down the details for a while).  For Mark or Barry it's probably
quite straightforward, but of course their time is very valuable.

 > > If you do it only for the Gmail-using subscriber, you'll probably
 > > screw up his threading because his copy of the message will have a
 > > different Message-ID from what everybody else refers to.  I find that
 > > to be pretty intrusive.
 > 
 > You are absolutely right. Probably changing Message-Id is not the
 > best way to workaround that "feature" when applied only to the copy
 > for the original poster.

Well, unfortunately Gmail is closed-source and I don't know what the
full algorithm is.  Surely Message-Id is part of it, but evidently
there are other aspects to it, or the behavior you and Brad
R. describe wouldn't happen.

 > I wonder if there are any other headers that can be changed, only
 > in the message copy for the original poster, that do the job.

I presume that there are.  Probably Brad's discussion gives a hint.

Steve

From lucio at sulweb.org  Thu Aug  9 10:30:03 2012
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:30:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <201208091030.03532.lucio@sulweb.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
> I don't think so.  Perhaps "MUA" is the wrong term for a message store
> "in the cloud", but the fact is that Gmail is the final recipient as
> far as the RFCs are concerned.  Eg, IMAP servers often implement SIEVE
> recipes and spam filtering, so some messages will be lost.

Again, that's not the point and we basically agree gmail is bad, but... a 
standard is some set of commonly accepted rules. Be it written down into a RFC 
or not. The "standard" (expected by most people) behavior of a email final 
recipient software, if not MUA, is to receive emails, not to throw them away 
based on ill advised algorithms. Sieve recipes and spam filtering is something 
that users can disable and modify at will (at least that's the "standard" for 
MUAs). If a recipe or spam filter accidentally trashes a message, the user can 
always disable that recipe or filter. Gmail does break the standard (expected 
behavior) in that does not let users choose if they want to receive some 
messages that are not spam by any stretch of imagination. Imho.

> In any case, no messages are lost; only copies with different
> meta-data.

However some information is actually lost (threading in the user's inbox and 
the acknowledgment that your message has actually reached the mailing list).

> I don't really disagree with you that Gmail's behavior is horrible.
> My point is that if you think its behavior is non-conforming, you may
> be in for other, even less pleasant surprises in the future.

You see, there must be a reason why I decided to roll my own mail server after 
all... I'm prepared to surprises. I'm not a gmail user, though I do have a 
sleeping gmail account. I'd only like to slap gmail in the face if I could, by 
working around their wonderful feature, just for the taste of feeling smarter 
than they pretend to be. All in all, what is hacking about if not that?

> I can't say I have a lot of sympathy.  You get Gmail for free, you
> shouldn't think it comes with no strings attached.

Quite obvious, though I can't see what Gmail earns from that "feature", but I 
suspect it's me not foreseeing very far away.

From rb211 at tds.net  Thu Aug  9 11:04:19 2012
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 05:04:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <201208091030.03532.lucio@sulweb.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<201208091030.03532.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <201208090504.20020.rb211@tds.net>

On Thursday 09 August 2012, Lucio Crusca wrote:
> I'd only like to slap gmail in the face if I could, by
> working around their wonderful feature, just for the taste of feeling
> smarter than they pretend to be. All in all, what is hacking about if
> not that?

Please do! Gmail user only because my ISP outsourced mail to them three 
years ago. Was helping a small discusion list move from an LSoft 
ListServe to Mailman at the time so suddenly missing my own posts back 
made testing impossible.

Was infuriated when I discovered there was no way to turn this stupid 
feature off. My work around is to post through my web hosts mail server. 
Most people do not have this option so a setting in Mailman for other 
would be great.
-- 
William

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug  9 14:09:32 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:09:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <201208091030.03532.lucio@sulweb.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<201208091030.03532.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <87sjbw8dxf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lucio Crusca writes:

 > Again, that's not the point and we basically agree gmail is bad,
 > but... a standard is some set of commonly accepted rules. Be it
 > written down into a RFC or not.

It doesn't need to be in an RFC, but it must be written.  "What is
commonly accepted" is simply not a standard because it's impossible to
know if you're conforming, or what you need to conform to.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  9 19:05:02 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:05:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
	<87y5lqsgmj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <E86EEE5C-685D-416F-922F-8D141180CF58@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 8, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Well, unfortunately Gmail is closed-source and I don't know what the
> full algorithm is.  Surely Message-Id is part of it, but evidently
> there are other aspects to it, or the behavior you and Brad
> R. describe wouldn't happen.

In the large-scale mail system design that I've done in the past, the tuple of (sender,recipient,message-id) was considered to be a pretty good index key for the mail database, albeit not a guaranteed unique key.  Most greylisting implementations use a tuple of (sender,recipient,sending-IP) to determine if this particular message should be delayed or not.

I even did a single-instance-store message database design that did an SHA-1 hash of the message body content to see if the message contents really were unique, and if not then you could store the headers separate from the body and for the body you could just include a pointer to the existing message body that you already have.  I believe that some implementations of Microsoft Exchange implement a similar algorithm.

If you wanted to go to the extreme, you could de-compose each message to the individual MIME bodyparts, and then do an SHA-1 hash on each of those.  So, no matter how many copies of the latest Dilbert cartoon get mailed out, and no matter what text or other material might surround that, you'd still be able to reduce that to storing just one copy of the cartoon with multiple inbound links.

On the other hand, Nick Christensen (author of "Sendmail Performance Tuning", ISBN-13: 978-0321115706) and I discovered that you would be trading more disk I/O operations in order to try to save a relatively trivial amount of disk space, and that's the exact opposite of the trade-off you want to make given the way disk storage capacities have rapidly grown while I/O capacities have been relatively stagnant.  We discussed all these issues in the invited talk "Design and Implementation of Highly Scalable E-mail Systems", see <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/papers/dihses/>.

I happen to know the former SRE for gmail, but I don't think he'd be able to tell me anything useful on this subject.


I really don't think that this is a disk storage issue, I think this is much more likely to be a wrong-headed idea that this kind of thing will be beneficial to the users -- after all, they know that they sent the message and that copy is sitting in the outbox, so they don't need to have another copy sitting in the inbox.

And maybe for the majority of users, that decision might actually be helpful.  But they need to give people a way to turn that option off, so that they don't break the ability to do debugging when testing the sending of messages to remote systems.

Of course, if people are on Google Groups, then this probably isn't an issue for them.  And maybe that's the other part of the problem -- maybe Google sees this "feature" as being a competitive advantage for them with combining Google Groups and gmail working better together, and they don't see the benefit of making gmail be able to play better with the rest of the world.


If you think it's worthwhile, you could always try turning on personalization for the list, and then add a footer with unique information per recipient.  That would cause the message-id to be unique as well as the message body, and wouldn't require any new code to be developed.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug  9 20:25:14 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 03:25:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gmail "features"
In-Reply-To: <E86EEE5C-685D-416F-922F-8D141180CF58@shub-internet.org>
References: <201208071047.54204.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<0a3ebb77581090370f46fd570af88c0d.squirrel@sejam.selfip.org>
	<87y5lqsgmj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<201208080932.41630.lucio@sulweb.org>
	<87liho61cg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E86EEE5C-685D-416F-922F-8D141180CF58@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87vcgrhqid.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > I really don't think that this is a disk storage issue, I think
 > this is much more likely to be a wrong-headed idea that this kind
 > of thing will be beneficial to the users -- after all, they know
 > that they sent the message and that copy is sitting in the outbox,
 > so they don't need to have another copy sitting in the inbox.

I agree it's not about disk storage, I think it's just de-duplication
of the messages that users see.  Back when Canter and Siegel first got
started, we hated spam not because there was so much of it, but
because it was so bloody annoying to see it in every newsgroup we
subscribed to.  I don't see why ordinary users wouldn't feel the same
way (of course one dupe is far less annoying than Green Card lawyers
in every group you read, but if you get a lot of them, the annoyance
level would build up).

I disagree that it's wrongheaded, if Gmail is going to always do
de-duplication with one algorithm.  Gmail always stores the mail you
sent, as you sent it.  It is not necessarily the case that it will
come back to you in one piece.  After all, our favorite list
distribution software is just bristling with settings determining
what's going to be left of your post once it arrives at the
subscriber's mailbox.  Everybody can understand if they send out a
PNG, it comes back from the list stripped or the mail gets dropped,
and for some reason they don't have a copy of their original.  OTOH,
only a very few would know, let alone care, about missing RFC 2369
headers in a few copies they have locally!

I just think that users ought to have a choice of how de-duping is
done.  Or if it gets done at all.

 > If you think it's worthwhile, you could always try turning on
 > personalization for the list, and then add a footer with unique
 > information per recipient.  That would cause the message-id to be
 > unique as well as the message body, and wouldn't require any new
 > code to be developed.

Small correction: the Message-Id will be the same for all copies.
Mailman cannot go changing those, or it would play hell with all
threading MUAs.

Steve

From lists at localguru.de  Thu Aug 16 14:33:15 2012
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus Schopen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 14:33:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] split incoming mailserver from mailman
Message-ID: <1345120395.2274.19.camel@crabtree>

Hi,

I'm looking for a way to separate the incoming mailserver which handles
the addresses from the mailman instance, which sends mails out. I'm
running sendmail as MTA. The wrapper in /etc/aliases
("|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman ...) seems to have no option to
transport the incoming email e.g. by http requests to a remote mailman
server. Any ideas?

Ciao
Marcus



From mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com  Thu Aug 16 16:15:22 2012
From: mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:15:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] split incoming mailserver from mailman
In-Reply-To: <1345120395.2274.19.camel@crabtree>
References: <1345120395.2274.19.camel@crabtree>
Message-ID: <B8EA97E6-3254-403D-AAD2-3496A3467B00@billmail.scconsult.com>

On 16 Aug 2012, at 8:33, Marcus Schopen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a way to separate the incoming mailserver which 
> handles
> the addresses from the mailman instance, which sends mails out. I'm
> running sendmail as MTA. The wrapper in /etc/aliases
> ("|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman ...) seems to have no option to
> transport the incoming email e.g. by http requests to a remote mailman
> server. Any ideas?

As is documented, Mailman needs to run on a machine with Python and a 
MTA. The only mechanism for submitting mail to a Mailman list is by 
piping a message to the mailman executable and that is done most easily 
by having the MTA deliver incoming Mailman messages via a piped alias. 
To use another transport, you'd probably have to write the transport 
code yourself.

Having the unfortunate architectural problem of list addresses in a 
domain that has other types of mail which you want to segregate from 
list traffic can be partly mitigated by having the inbound MTA(s) for 
the domain use special-case routing for the list-related addresses. The 
main server can pass mail for those addresses to the Mailman server 
which "delivers" mail for those addresses locally (i.e. through aliases 
that pipe messages to mailman.) Mailman then can send outbound mail via 
its local submission subsystem and whatefver outbound routing that uses 
(i.e. the local MTA or a relaying MTA.)  For Sendmail, that sort of 
arbitrary address routing is probably best done using the mailertable 
feature, with complementary tables on the main MTA server and the 
Mailman server directing each others' addresses appropriately. As with 
anything involving Sendmail there are also other ways to implement that 
which might be convenient if you already are using them (e.g. the 
"mailhub" model, User DB, or handmade custom .cf code) but they would be 
harder fits than the mailertable.

From lists at localguru.de  Thu Aug 16 17:44:21 2012
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus Schopen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:44:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] split incoming mailserver from mailman
In-Reply-To: <1345120395.2274.19.camel@crabtree>
References: <1345120395.2274.19.camel@crabtree>
Message-ID: <1345131861.5703.4.camel@crabtree>

Am Donnerstag, den 16.08.2012, 14:33 +0200 schrieb Marcus Schopen:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for a way to separate the incoming mailserver which handles
> the addresses from the mailman instance, which sends mails out. I'm
> running sendmail as MTA. The wrapper in /etc/aliases
> ("|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman ...) seems to have no option to
> transport the incoming email e.g. by http requests to a remote mailman
> server. Any ideas?

I set up a sendmail on the mailman server too and use a simple mail
forward from the inbound mailserver to the sendmail on the mailman
server.

Ciao!



From david at d2net.net  Fri Aug 17 04:51:23 2012
From: david at d2net.net (David Dodell)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 19:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with Moderation
Message-ID: <6E619ACE-02ED-4BE1-9DF4-911322D4851C@d2net.net>

I am running mailman on OSX Lion.

Moderation through the web interface does not work.

If I try to do anything from the web interface (see screenshot) ... I can see a split second of it accessing the server, and the screen refreshes and goes back to this default of "defer"

Just no actions at all work.

Any idea where I should look ... 

Thank you.

David


From ddodell at mac.com  Sun Aug 12 17:25:32 2012
From: ddodell at mac.com (David Dodell)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 08:25:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
Message-ID: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>

This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed.

I am running OSX Lion  (not Mountain Lion).     Mailman was part of the default installation.

I have two issues which I have gotten absolutely no help from Apple Enterprise Support ... basic answer, we don't support open source software and couldn't answer me on why they installed / advertised mailing lists but don't support it ... but I regress.


(1) First issue is cosmetic.    At the bottom of each administrative page, mailman does not display the icons which I see on ever other mailman website ... basically the mailman / python logos.   Not a real big deal, besides the cosmetic irk.   I've checked the docs, found the path in the config file, and sure enough the images are there in the path, but they still do not display.   Ideas?


(2) Second issue is more serious.    I can't get list moderation to work.    A message comes in to be moderator, I get email notification of this.   However, if I login to the administrator page, "pending moderator requests", if I try to approve, reject, or any other command on that page, NOTHING happens ... the message keeps appearing, no action is taken etc.


I've repaired all permissions, but besides that, lost on what to try next.

Would appreciate any insight.

Thank you.

David Dodell

From mikael.jokela at ursa.fi  Tue Aug 14 16:23:04 2012
From: mikael.jokela at ursa.fi (Mikael Jokela)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:23:04 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to disable notifications to moderator and owner
	of pending posts?
Message-ID: <CAH-STh+9nLrNALuXWbF5=J=mfS+YQ7hjeLNPyX11i6TbMFLEVw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mailman-users!

I have a list configuration question. I would like to totally disable
email notifications for a list regarding pending posts. The list
moderator or admin would login to the admindb page from time to time
regardless any notifications. The moderator and admin would get
notifications of membership requests and such but none of pending
posts.

I can't find a configuration parameter for this. How would you do this?

I'm using Mailman version 2.1.9 installed from CentOS5 RPM.

Cheers, Mikael

From info at ifz.de  Thu Aug  9 14:03:26 2012
From: info at ifz.de (Andre Vallese)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 14:03:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating second mailinglist
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAMnCdtYFvZtFmziO5xOL+KbCgAAAEAAAAH4JGQV64h1KuptpocAXxSIBAAAAAA==@ifz.de>

Hi!

We have a mailinglist already running well. Now trying to create a new
mailinglist. So we are on http://listen.ifz.name/mailman/admin and click on
create new list. What appears is the site
http://listen.ifz.name/mailman/create with the text: 

?Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable
to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at localhost and inform them
of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may
have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

  _____  

Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) PHP/5.2.6-1+lenny3 with Suhosin-Patch Server at
listen.ifz.name Port 80?

 

 

What can we do?

 

Thanks for your efforts in advance,

 

Andr?

Institut f?r Zweiradsicherheit e.V. | Servicepark Essen | Gladbecker Stra?e
425 | 45329 Essen
Telefon (0201) 83 53 9-0 | Telefax (0201) 83 53 9-99 | E-Mail:
<mailto:info at ifz.de> info at ifz.de | Webpage:  <http://www.ifz.de> www.ifz.de
facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-f%C3%BCr-Zweiradsicherheit-eV/362746
900439593> Beschreibung: fb-microIcon |  twitter
<https://twitter.com/#!/ifz1> Beschreibung: microIcon 
 <http://twitfooter.com/user/ifz1> Beschreibung:
http://twitfooter.com/status/img/606434064?nocache=1566130018



 


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VR Essen, Nr. 3943
Institutsleiter: Dr.-Ing. Achim Kuschefski

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From jglazer at gard.com  Tue Aug  7 18:16:22 2012
From: jglazer at gard.com (Jason Glazer)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 11:16:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives for Yahoo Groups like Web Features
Message-ID: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>

I am looking for some suggestions on how to provide some 
Yahoo Group like web features for some existing mailing 
lists. I run a variety of mailings lists related to building 
energy performance on the onebuilding.org web site using 
mailman and hosted by dreamhost. For some of the mailing 
lists, users would like to have access to some additional 
web capabilities similar to what Yahoo Groups provides. I am 
looking for suggestions for web based systems to provide 
some of these additional capabilities that are open-source. 
The kinds of additional features are:

a) a way for designated members to upload files that others 
can download

b) a way for designated members to add events to a shared 
calendar that anyone can see

c) a way to conduct simple polls to gauge interest in topics

d) a way for members to add links to a page to build up a 
library of good links

e) a way to create a FAQ page

f) perhaps a wiki-like way to create and edit pages in a 
freeform basis

What I am looking for are suggestions on what has worked 
well together with an existing mailing list. What have 
others used and found easy to administer and easy for list 
members to use.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Jason

-- 
Jason Glazer, P.E., GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair
Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists

From nick.bright at valnet.net  Tue Aug 14 01:59:38 2012
From: nick.bright at valnet.net (Nick Bright)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:59:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administratively subscribe other users via email
Message-ID: <502994EA.204@valnet.net>

I'm sorry if this is a repeated question; but I've spent the last hour 
searching/reading faq's and not finding anything useful.

I'm creating a newsletter mailing list, which I've successfully done - 
now, I am trying to get my billing system to automatically add new 
customers to the mailing list.

The easiest way to do this would be to have my billing system send an 
email to mailman to subscribe the user.

However, I have as of yet been unable to locate any information on how 
to do so.

I've tried using the "Approved:" header with a subscribe command in the 
mail body, following the subscribe command syntax at 
http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node41.html, but the response back 
from mailman is that the commands remain unprocessed.

What is the correct syntax for doing this?

-- 
-----------------------------------------------
-  Nick Bright                                -
-  Vice President of Technology               -
-  Valnet -=- We Connect You -=-              -
-  Tel 888-332-1616 x 315 / Fax 620-331-0789  -
-  Web http://www.valnet.net/                 -
-----------------------------------------------
- Are your files safe?                        -
- Valnet Vault - Secure Cloud Backup          -
- More information & 30 day free trial at     -
- http://www.valnet.net/services/valnet-vault -
-----------------------------------------------


From Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG  Fri Aug 17 23:21:06 2012
From: Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG (Futchko, Rose)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 17:21:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & POSTFIX Configuration Help
Message-ID: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E506116C29@mail1.informs.org>

I am writing for some help regarding Postfix configuration. 

I cannot seem to get POSTFIX configured properly to transfer mail to the
mailing list installed on the same server. I followed many steps over
the last few days, and the last one I followed is at
http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html under the section Mailing
Lists.

Can someone please look at this and let me know what I am missing?

Basically, POSTFIX has been configured for base email to be sent to
xxx at mail-test.company.org and I would like the mail list to use
xxx at listtest.company.org

DYN-DNS 
listtest.company.org		A 	216.111.222.85	 
listtest.company.org		MX 	216.111.222.85	 
listtest.company.org		TXT 	"v=spf1 a ptr mx
ip4:216.111.222.85 mx:mail-test.company.org -all"

mail-test.company.org		A 	216.111.222.85	 
mail-test.company.org		MX 	216.111.222.85	 
mail-test.company.org		TXT 	"v=spf1 a ptr mx
ip4:216.111.222.85 mx:mail-test.company.org -all"

MAIN.CF
myhostname = mail-test.company.org
mydomain = company.org
myorigin = $hostname
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases alias_database
= hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases recipient_delimiter = +
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
mydestination = $myhostname, listtest.$mydomain

/etc/postfix/virtual:
    listname-request at listtest.company.org 	listname-request
    listname at listtest.company.org         		listname
    owner-listname at listtest.company.org   	owner-listname

/etc/aliases:
    listname: "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
    owner-listname: ...
    listname-request: ...

MM_CFG.PY
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'listtest.company.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'listtest.company.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) MTA = 'Postfix'

/var/log/maillog

The first part of the log shows the rejection of listtest.company.org --
whereas the second part shows successful transfer to
mail-test.company.org

Aug 17 15:46:50 app02-listserv postfix/smtpd[19870]: NOQUEUE: reject:
RCPT from Mail1.company.org[66.173.196.101]: 554 5.7.1
<XXXX at listtest.company.org>: Relay access denied;
from=<user at company1.ORG> to=<list at listtest.company.org> proto=SMTP
helo=<MAIL1.company.ORG> Aug 17 15:46:50 app02-listserv
postfix/cleanup[19877]: D3F93209F1:
message-id=<050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E506116BF5 at mail1.informs.org>
Aug 17 15:46:50 app02-listserv postfix/smtpd[19870]: disconnect from
Mail1.company.org[66.173.196.101]

Aug 17 15:46:50 app02-listserv postfix/qmgr[19197]: D3F93209F1:
from=<user2 at company.ORG>, size=6670, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Aug 17
15:46:50 app02-listserv postfix/cleanup[19877]: F37B120A3B:
message-id=<050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E506116BF5 at mail1.informs.org>
Aug 17 15:46:51 app02-listserv postfix/qmgr[19197]: F37B120A3B:
from=<user2 at company.ORG>, size=6819, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Aug 17
15:46:51 app02-listserv postfix/local[19878]: D3F93209F1:
to=<company_it at mail-test.company.org>, relay=local, delay=0.18,
delays=0.17/0.01/0/0, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (forwarded as F37B120A3B)
Aug 17 15:46:51 app02-listserv postfix/qmgr[19197]: D3F93209F1: removed

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

From sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com  Sat Aug 18 20:43:07 2012
From: sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9batien_Andreatta?=)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:43:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot -> user
	unknown )
Message-ID: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been looking for weeks on google , but i have not found valid answer
:

How to integrate Mailman with postfix without the use of
postfix-to-mailman.py script wich is not officialy supported ?

I have a working installation : Postfix -> Amavisd ( clamd , spamassassin )
And dovecot

I followed all the howto that i have found but it still doesn't work.

I would like to have all my lists on a subdomain : lists.mydomain.be

So , now here is my configuration :

postconf -n

alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = amavisfeed:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = all
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost,
lists.mydomain.be
mydomain = mydomain.be
myhostname = smeagoln.mydomain.be
myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = $mydestination
relayhost = relay.domain.be
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-aliases.cf,
hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = static:493
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts/
virtual_mailbox_domains = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-accounts.cf
virtual_transport = dovecot
virtual_uid_maps = static:493

mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   ='www.mydomain.be'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'smeagoln.mydomain.be'

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.be']

maillog :

Aug 18 19:22:47 mydomain postfix/qmgr[6085]: F05353E92: from=<
crupuk at mydomain.be>, size=914, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug 18 19:22:47 mydomain dovecot: imap-login: Login: user=<
crupuk at mydomain.be>, method=PLAIN, rip=::1, lip=::1, mpid=6139, secured
Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain amavis[4479]: (04479-05) Passed CLEAN, MYNETS
LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1] <crupuk at mydomain.be> -> <test at mydomain.be>,
Message-ID: <1d504d6a1f2f9954ecc5ab2f4a193b9e at mydomain.be>, mail_id:
zAsh0XT4N+qM, Hits: -0.999, size: 510, queued_as: F05353E92, 5437 ms
Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain dovecot: imap(crupuk at mydomain.be): Disconnected:
Logged out bytes=82/572
Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain postfix/lmtp[6123]: BE3CE3E8F: to=<test at mydomain.be>,
orig_to=<test at lists.mydomain.be>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024,
delay=6.8, delays=0.31/0.49/0.25/5.7, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok,
id=04479-05, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as F05353E92)
Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain postfix/qmgr[6085]: BE3CE3E8F: removed
Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain dovecot: imap(crupuk at mydomain.be): Disconnected:
Logged out bytes=307/8873
Aug 18 19:22:49 mydomain postfix/pipe[6138]: F05353E92: to=<test at mydomain.be>,
relay=dovecot, delay=2.4, delays=0.2/1.3/0/0.86, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced
(user unknown)


Mailman version : 2.1.12 ( So , I can't use VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN )

So,  how can I do for deliver all mail for test at lists.mydomain.be by local
agent and so, use alias_maps ?

Thanks for your help

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Aug 19 06:18:13 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:18:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives for Yahoo Groups like Web Features
In-Reply-To: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>
References: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>
Message-ID: <3057FDDF-0EC0-47CD-A677-B38CC12C8313@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 7, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Jason Glazer <jglazer at gard.com> wrote:

> a) a way for designated members to upload files that others can download

A wiki could solve this problem.

> b) a way for designated members to add events to a shared calendar that anyone can see

Hmm.  No good shared group solutions in this space that I know of.  Google lets you have a group calendar that can be shared read-only, but you want to carefully control who is allowed to make changes to it.

> c) a way to conduct simple polls to gauge interest in topics

SurveyMonkey and PollDaddy are two solutions in this space.  I know some of the SurveyMonkey folks in SF -- they're good people.

> d) a way for members to add links to a page to build up a library of good links
> 
> e) a way to create a FAQ page
> 
> f) perhaps a wiki-like way to create and edit pages in a freeform basis

I think a wiki would be at least a good way to solve all these problems, if not the best way.

> What I am looking for are suggestions on what has worked well together with an existing mailing list. What have others used and found easy to administer and easy for list members to use.

The problem is that you're not going to find a unified solution to all these problems.  You can run separate services for different parts of the problem space, as we do for list.org -- the mailing lists are hosted at python.org (they came first), the main website is hosted on private servers that few people have access to and mirrored by the fine folks at gnu.org (among others), the wiki is hosted by Atlassian on behalf of list.org, and there are various bug tracking systems that have been tried out over the years.

But those are still multiple separate services, located at various different locations, and no one person that I know of (other than maybe Barry) has had a hand in setting each of them up or is continuing to be involved in their ongoing maintenance.

> Any suggestions?

The biggest suggestion I'd make is to select tools based primarily on how useful they will be today and how easy they will be to administer on an ongoing basis once they are initially configured.

Don't waste time "overbuying" for future capacity and features that you may not ever need, especially since that may make it less likely that the system in question actually gets launched in the first place -- witness the various bug tracking systems that we've tried to use over the years.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sun Aug 19 06:34:15 2012
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 07:34:15 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & POSTFIX Configuration Help
In-Reply-To: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E506116C29@mail1.informs.org>
References: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E506116C29@mail1.informs.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1208190725570.3504@data.home>

Hi,

I'm not a Postfix guru, but...

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Futchko, Rose wrote:

> Basically, POSTFIX has been configured for base email to be sent to
> xxx at mail-test.company.org and I would like the mail list to use
> xxx at listtest.company.org
{snip}
> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
> mydestination = $myhostname, listtest.$mydomain

I think here is your problem.  You've set up your Mailman aliases as being 
virtual but you've put listtest in mydestination (which makes it not 
virtual).

Instead, I'd recommend doing:

virtual_mailbox_domains = listtest.company.org

> MM_CFG.PY
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'listtest.company.org'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'listtest.company.org'
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> MTA = 'Postfix'

You'll also need to add:

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['listtest.company.org']

for Mailman to populate the virtual file when new lists are created.

HTH,
Geoff.


From sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com  Sun Aug 19 13:13:42 2012
From: sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9batien_Andreatta?=)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:13:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot -> user
	unknown )
Message-ID: <CAAcujth08RihCML0PE+C7B4fjKTvBObS0GM0XxPyZkmvuLT=FA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been looking for weeks on google , but i have not found valid answer
:

How to integrate Mailman with postfix without the use of
postfix-to-mailman.py script wich is not officialy supported ?

I have a working installation : Postfix -> Amavisd ( clamd , spamassassin )
And dovecot

I followed all the howto that i have found but it still doesn't work.

I would like to have all my lists on a subdomain : lists.mydomain.be

So , now here is my configuration :

postconf -n

alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
hash:/etc/mailman/aliases command_directory = /usr/sbin config_directory =
/etc/postfix content_filter = amavisfeed:[127.0.0.1]:10024 daemon_directory
= /usr/libexec/postfix data_directory = /var/lib/postfix debug_peer_level =
2 html_directory = no inet_interfaces = all inet_protocols = all mail_owner
= postfix mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix manpage_directory =
/usr/share/man mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost,
lists.mydomain.be mydomain = mydomain.be myhostname =
smeagoln.mydomain.bemyorigin = $mydomain newaliases_path =
/usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix readme_directory =
/usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/README_FILES recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = $mydestination relayhost = relay.domain.be sample_directory
= /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/samples sendmail_path =
/usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix setgid_group = postdrop smtpd_banner =
$myhostname ESMTP $mail_name unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap
<http://ldap-aliases.cf>-<http://ldap-aliases.cf>
aliases.cf <http://ldap-aliases.cf>, hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = static:493 virtual_mailbox_base =
/var/mail/vhosts/virtual_mailbox_domains =
ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-domains.cfvirtual_mailbox_maps =
ldap:/etc/postfix/
ldap-accounts.cf virtual_transport = dovecot virtual_uid_maps = static:493

mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'smeagoln.mydomain.be'

MTA = 'Postfix' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.be']

maillog :

Aug 18 19:22:47 mydomain postfix/qmgr[6085]: F05353E92: from=<
crupuk at mydomain.be>, size=914, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Aug 18 19:22:47
mydomain dovecot: imap-login: Login: user=<crupuk at mydomain.be>,
method=PLAIN, rip=::1, lip=::1, mpid=6139, secured Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain
amavis[4479]: (04479-05) Passed CLEAN, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1]
<crupuk at mydomain.be> -> <test at mydomain.be>, Message-ID:
<1d504d6a1f2f9954ecc5ab2f4a193 b9e at mydomain.be>, mail_id: zAsh0XT4N+qM,
Hits: -0.999, size: 510, queued_as: F05353E92, 5437 ms Aug 18 19:22:48
mydomain dovecot: imap(crupuk at mydomain.be): Disconnected: Logged out
bytes=82/572 Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain postfix/lmtp[6123]: BE3CE3E8F: to=<
test at mydomain.be>, orig_to= <test at lists.mydomain.be>,
relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]: 10024, delay=6.8, delays=0.31/0.49/0.25/5.7,
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, id=04479-05, from
MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as F05353E92) Aug 18 19:22:48
mydomain postfix/qmgr[6085]: BE3CE3E8F: removed Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain
dovecot: imap(crupuk at mydomain.be): Disconnected: Logged out bytes=307/8873
Aug 18 19:22:49 mydomain postfix/pipe[6138]: F05353E92: to=<test at mydomain.be>,
relay=dovecot, delay=2.4, delays=0.2/1.3/0/0.86, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced
(user unknown)

Mailman version : 2.1.12 ( So , I can't use VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN )

So, how can I do for deliver all mail for test at lists.mydomain.be by local
agent and so, use alias_maps ?

Thanks for your help

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Aug 19 14:11:16 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 21:11:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives for Yahoo Groups like Web Features
In-Reply-To: <3057FDDF-0EC0-47CD-A677-B38CC12C8313@shub-internet.org>
References: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>
	<3057FDDF-0EC0-47CD-A677-B38CC12C8313@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87wr0vqdy3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > The problem is that you're not going to find a unified solution to
 > all these problems.

Not soon, but Mailman 3 will make it easier to integrate such with
Mailman (within a few months, I guess).  The actual work may take
years unless substantial resources are contributed, though.
N.B. Programs like GSoC would be possible sources of funding,
especially if the request comes from a respected developer (not
necessarily a Mailman developer!) capable of mentoring a student
developer for the project.  But it could also be done with Mailman
mentoring talent -- the students' ideas and goals are an important
influence on the projects we choose.

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sun Aug 19 16:22:00 2012
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 15:22:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives for Yahoo Groups like Web Features
In-Reply-To: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>
References: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>
Message-ID: <20120819142200.GA5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 11:16:22AM -0500, Jason Glazer wrote:
> I am looking for some suggestions on how to provide some Yahoo Group
> like web features for some existing mailing lists. I run a variety
> of mailings lists related to building energy performance on the
> onebuilding.org web site using mailman and hosted by dreamhost. 

I have no idea if you'll be able to do what you want with Dreamhost; I
don't know, and CBA'd looking, at what their provisions are.

I'll assume that you can do what you like, though.

> a) a way for designated members to upload files that others can
> download
> 
> b) a way for designated members to add events to a shared calendar
> that anyone can see
> 
> c) a way to conduct simple polls to gauge interest in topics
> 
> d) a way for members to add links to a page to build up a library of
> good links
> 
> e) a way to create a FAQ page
> 
> f) perhaps a wiki-like way to create and edit pages in a freeform
> basis

For all of those, in one product, a couple of CMSes spring to mind,
particularly those with granular permission sets. I would look at
Drupal and Pyro. Drupal, additionally, has some modules to interact
with Mailman -- although you could use SQL, sync_members, and cron.

One thing to bear in mind with that sort of software is patching, and
keeping things up to date, along with testing your modules will work
across version migrations.

That might be overkill, in which case, if you can ignore/find an
additional service for c), and if your users are comfortable with
Wikis, a wiki may be a reasonable alternative. Some even have
permissions models -- Twiki springs to mind.


-- 
"Tony Blair has made 'morale boosting' visits
 to the wives of servicemen serving in the Gulf." 
    -- BBC News

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Aug 19 17:08:48 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 00:08:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives for Yahoo Groups like Web Features
In-Reply-To: <20120819142200.GA5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <50213F56.7030407@gard.com>
	<20120819142200.GA5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <87wr0u3on3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Adam McGreggor writes:

 > That might be overkill, in which case, if you can ignore/find an
 > additional service for c), and if your users are comfortable with
 > Wikis, a wiki may be a reasonable alternative. Some even have
 > permissions models -- Twiki springs to mind.

As does ZWiki, although "pounces" (with fangs and talons bared ;-) is
a more appropriate way to express the fear and loathing that come to
mind when the Zope permissions model is mentioned in my presence....


From beta at admilon.net  Sun Aug 19 05:22:43 2012
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:22:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>


Am 13.08.2012 um 00:25 schrieb David Dodell:

> This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed.
> 
> I am running OSX Lion  (not Mountain Lion).     Mailman was part of the default installation.
> 
> I have two issues which I have gotten absolutely no help from Apple Enterprise Support ... basic answer, we don't support open source software and couldn't answer me on why they installed / advertised mailing lists but don't support it ... but I regress.
> 
> 
> (1) First issue is cosmetic.    At the bottom of each administrative page, mailman does not display the icons which I see on ever other mailman website ... basically the mailman / python logos.   Not a real big deal, besides the cosmetic irk.   I've checked the docs, found the path in the config file, and sure enough the images are there in the path, but they still do not display.   Ideas?

where is apache looking for the icons.
I think I read on the OS X Server List that the icons are on a different place than they should be.

> 
> 
> (2) Second issue is more serious.    I can't get list moderation to work.    A message comes in to be moderator, I get email notification of this.   However, if I login to the administrator page, "pending moderator requests", if I try to approve, reject, or any other command on that page, NOTHING happens ... the message keeps appearing, no action is taken etc.

anything in the logs (apache, mailman ...)?

> 
> 
> I've repaired all permissions, but besides that, lost on what to try next.

did you try your own install of mailman as it was suggested on the os x server list?


cheers
Matthias

> 


From beta at admilon.net  Sun Aug 19 19:34:25 2012
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 02:34:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <03F91CF9-CA5A-4969-900A-071EE8184FC1@mac.com>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<03F91CF9-CA5A-4969-900A-071EE8184FC1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <72CD9293-6510-491B-B4B1-315FC3A6085B@admilon.net>


Am 20.08.2012 um 01:00 schrieb David Dodell:

>> where is apache looking for the icons.
>> I think I read on the OS X Server List that the icons are on a different place than they should be.
> 
> 
> This problem has been fixed.   Strangely enough, found where apache was looking for the icons, put them in that directory ... everything started working.    Even redid the icons to reflect the new Mailman logo.    No problems for several days, yesterday, it resorted to the original logos, which aren't even in that location anymore.   Very strange.
> 
>>> (2) Second issue is more serious.    I can't get list moderation to work.    A message comes in to be moderator, I get email notification of this.   However, if I login to the administrator page, "pending moderator requests", if I try to approve, reject, or any other command on that page, NOTHING happens ... the message keeps appearing, no action is taken etc.
>> 
>> anything in the logs (apache, mailman ...)?
>> 
> 
> 
> Stupid question ... where is the mailman log so I can look.

I'd look here:
/private/var/mailman/logs

> 
>> did you try your own install of mailman as it was suggested on the os x server list?
> 
> 
> Not yet ... everything else is working very smoothly, and installing mailman I'm afraid is above my abilities.    I will have to seek outside help.
> 

it's not that difficult .... I'd could help you.

cheers
Matthias



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Aug 20 03:11:56 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
Message-ID: <1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>

On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 12:22 +0900, Matthias Schmidt wrote:
> Am 13.08.2012 um 00:25 schrieb David Dodell:
> 
> > This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed.
> > 
> > I am running OSX Lion  (not Mountain Lion).     Mailman was part of
> > the default installation.
> > 
> > I have two issues which I have gotten absolutely no help from Apple
> > Enterprise Support ... basic answer, we don't support open source >
> > software and couldn't answer me on why they installed / advertised >
> > mailing lists but don't support it ... but I regress.

There are lots of mailing lists available.  Mailman is only one of them.
Apple no doubt supports _a_ mailing list, but as Apple Enterprise
Support says, one can seldom expect support from a proprietary software
vendor for software which isn't their own.

> > (1) First issue is cosmetic.    At the bottom of each administrative
> > page, mailman does not display the icons which I see on ever other >
> > mailman website ... basically the mailman / python logos.   Not a >
> > real big deal, besides the cosmetic irk.   I've checked the docs, >
> > found the path in the config file, and sure enough the images are  >
> > there in the path, but they still do not display.   Ideas?
> 
> where is apache looking for the icons.
> I think I read on the OS X Server List that the icons are on a
> different place than they should be.

Look in your apache error log.  If a page is trying to display a
graphic, another page, or any file that's linked from a served page, and
apache can't find it, it'll log the error.

> > (2) Second issue is more serious.    I can't get list moderation to
> > work.    A message comes in to be moderator, I get email
>> notification of this.   However, if I login to the administrator
>> page, "pending moderator requests", if I try to approve, reject, or
>> any other command on that page, NOTHING happens ... the message keeps
>> appearing, no action is taken etc.
> 
> anything in the logs (apache, mailman ...)?

The vast majority of problems on any Unix type system leave footprints
in logs at a system level.  These are definitely your first recourse in
any investigation.  Logs in Unix-type OSes (OS X, Linux, BSD, etc.) are
almost invariably in /var/log, and are one of the things I really love
about Unix-flavor systems :)

> > 
> > I've repaired all permissions, but besides that, lost on what to try
> > next.
> 
> did you try your own install of mailman as it was suggested on the os
> x server list?

I've very frequently had the best luck installing Mailman (and other
software packages) from a tarball and _slavishly_ following the install
directions.  My policy on such installs out of the chute is: do not
deviate, do not pass Go, do not collect even a singly byte of what you
perceive as slack!  If the install screws up and some part of it won't
work, you have a clear path back from which others on forums such as
this one can follow your tracks, plus if there's a genuine bug, you can
report it as same without concern that it might be the result of some
step you skipped, or added, or some non-standard procedure that you
followed.  If one does a totally politically correct install, and still
has problems, then it's time for some sleuthing and experimentation.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services |  to solve it." - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190          |        
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Aug 20 03:11:56 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
Message-ID: <1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>

On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 12:22 +0900, Matthias Schmidt wrote:
> Am 13.08.2012 um 00:25 schrieb David Dodell:
> 
> > This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed.
> > 
> > I am running OSX Lion  (not Mountain Lion).     Mailman was part of
> > the default installation.
> > 
> > I have two issues which I have gotten absolutely no help from Apple
> > Enterprise Support ... basic answer, we don't support open source >
> > software and couldn't answer me on why they installed / advertised >
> > mailing lists but don't support it ... but I regress.

There are lots of mailing lists available.  Mailman is only one of them.
Apple no doubt supports _a_ mailing list, but as Apple Enterprise
Support says, one can seldom expect support from a proprietary software
vendor for software which isn't their own.

> > (1) First issue is cosmetic.    At the bottom of each administrative
> > page, mailman does not display the icons which I see on ever other >
> > mailman website ... basically the mailman / python logos.   Not a >
> > real big deal, besides the cosmetic irk.   I've checked the docs, >
> > found the path in the config file, and sure enough the images are  >
> > there in the path, but they still do not display.   Ideas?
> 
> where is apache looking for the icons.
> I think I read on the OS X Server List that the icons are on a
> different place than they should be.

Look in your apache error log.  If a page is trying to display a
graphic, another page, or any file that's linked from a served page, and
apache can't find it, it'll log the error.

> > (2) Second issue is more serious.    I can't get list moderation to
> > work.    A message comes in to be moderator, I get email
>> notification of this.   However, if I login to the administrator
>> page, "pending moderator requests", if I try to approve, reject, or
>> any other command on that page, NOTHING happens ... the message keeps
>> appearing, no action is taken etc.
> 
> anything in the logs (apache, mailman ...)?

The vast majority of problems on any Unix type system leave footprints
in logs at a system level.  These are definitely your first recourse in
any investigation.  Logs in Unix-type OSes (OS X, Linux, BSD, etc.) are
almost invariably in /var/log, and are one of the things I really love
about Unix-flavor systems :)

> > 
> > I've repaired all permissions, but besides that, lost on what to try
> > next.
> 
> did you try your own install of mailman as it was suggested on the os
> x server list?

I've very frequently had the best luck installing Mailman (and other
software packages) from a tarball and _slavishly_ following the install
directions.  My policy on such installs out of the chute is: do not
deviate, do not pass Go, do not collect even a singly byte of what you
perceive as slack!  If the install screws up and some part of it won't
work, you have a clear path back from which others on forums such as
this one can follow your tracks, plus if there's a genuine bug, you can
report it as same without concern that it might be the result of some
step you skipped, or added, or some non-standard procedure that you
followed.  If one does a totally politically correct install, and still
has problems, then it's time for some sleuthing and experimentation.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services |  to solve it." - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190          |        
http://www.fmp.com    |


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 20 05:33:24 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 22:33:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com> wrote:

> There are lots of mailing lists available.  Mailman is only one of them.
> Apple no doubt supports _a_ mailing list, but as Apple Enterprise
> Support says, one can seldom expect support from a proprietary software
> vendor for software which isn't their own.

This has long been a major bone of contention.  We're happy to have them take our software, but if they're going to make modifications to it, they need to share those modifications back with us -- and support their mods.  If they're going to ship a modified version of our software but then not provide those modifications back to us and not support their modifications, and not provide any support for what they have shipped? Well, then that makes them the bad guys -- they don't give us any way to be able to provide support to their customers, and they don't support their customers themselves.  Regretfully, the Server team at Apple is well known for ignoring feedback and input from anyone else, especially anyone else in the company.

But as I said, this is an old bone of contention.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Mon Aug 20 11:13:14 2012
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:13:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating second mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAMnCdtYFvZtFmziO5xOL+KbCgAAAEAAAAH4JGQV64h1KuptpocAXxSIBAAAAAA==@ifz.de>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAMnCdtYFvZtFmziO5xOL+KbCgAAAEAAAAH4JGQV64h1KuptpocAXxSIBAAAAAA==@ifz.de>
Message-ID: <5031FFAA.2070908@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Andre Vallese


On 2012-08-09 14:03, Andre Vallese wrote:
> 
> We have a mailinglist already running well. Now trying to create a new
> mailinglist. So we are on http://listen.ifz.name/mailman/admin and click on
> create new list. What appears is the site
> http://listen.ifz.name/mailman/create with the text: 
> 
> ?Internal Server Error
> 
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable
> to complete your request.
> 
> Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at localhost and inform them
> of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may
> have caused the error.
> 
> More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
> 

Perhaps this is a permisson problem or a misconfiguration of suhosin, or
your harddisk is full or ...

Perhaps you should do what the error message suggests:
Look into the apache server error log!


Kind regards,
Christian Mack


From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Mon Aug 20 11:20:47 2012
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:20:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administratively subscribe other users via email
In-Reply-To: <502994EA.204@valnet.net>
References: <502994EA.204@valnet.net>
Message-ID: <5032016F.6010704@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Nick Bright


On 2012-08-14 01:59, Nick Bright wrote:
> I'm sorry if this is a repeated question; but I've spent the last hour
> searching/reading faq's and not finding anything useful.
> 
> I'm creating a newsletter mailing list, which I've successfully done -
> now, I am trying to get my billing system to automatically add new
> customers to the mailing list.
> 
> The easiest way to do this would be to have my billing system send an
> email to mailman to subscribe the user.
> 
> However, I have as of yet been unable to locate any information on how
> to do so.
> 
> I've tried using the "Approved:" header with a subscribe command in the
> mail body, following the subscribe command syntax at
> http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node41.html, but the response back
> from mailman is that the commands remain unprocessed.
> 
> What is the correct syntax for doing this?
> 

Send an email with subject help and empty body to your
${listname}-request@${your.mailman.server}.
You will get back a description of all commands supported by email.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From beta at admilon.net  Mon Aug 20 14:23:42 2012
From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:23:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <86AAAAC7-EECB-44E5-875D-A991A2406D8E@admilon.net>


Am 20.08.2012 um 12:33 schrieb Brad Knowles:

> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com> wrote:
> 
>> There are lots of mailing lists available.  Mailman is only one of them.
>> Apple no doubt supports _a_ mailing list, but as Apple Enterprise
>> Support says, one can seldom expect support from a proprietary software
>> vendor for software which isn't their own.
> 
> This has long been a major bone of contention.  We're happy to have them take our software, but if they're going to make modifications to it, they need to share those modifications back with us -- and support their mods.  If they're going to ship a modified version of our software but then not provide those modifications back to us and not support their modifications, and not provide any support for what they have shipped? Well, then that makes them the bad guys -- they don't give us any way to be able to provide support to their customers, and they don't support their customers themselves.  Regretfully, the Server team at Apple is well known for ignoring feedback and input from anyone else, especially anyone else in the company.
> 

that's partly also true for postfix. The mods Apple made are undocumented and not reported back to the postfix developers. This concerns basically the OpenDirectory integration.

Besides that, Apple is not shipping mailman anymore with MoutainLion Server, so people are already installing it separately and that's what I would do under Lion as well.

What makes me wonder is that the OP has an AppleSupport contract and mailman is shipping with Lion, I find that more than strange ...

cheers
Matthias



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Aug 20 16:00:37 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 09:00:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 22:33 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Regretfully, the Server team at Apple is well known for ignoring
> feedback and input from anyone else, especially anyone else in the
> company.

My guess is that they don't put their top-flight people on either server
development or server support.  Apple isn't know for servers, it's niche
markets being audio recording, graphics editing and consumer desktop and
laptop systems.  I've also observed, with somewhat limited experience,
that Apple doesn't respond to complaints about bugs.  People bitched and
moaned on Apple's user forum about a recent problem with video-induced
kernel panics in Lion (which I also experienced) and Apple never
responded, but the problem was fixed in a subsequent release.

> but if they're going to make modifications to it, they need to share
> those modifications back with us

Doesn't their failure to do so violate the GPL?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Real programmers use butterflies"
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |       - xkcd
http://www.fmp.com    |


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Aug 20 19:18:44 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 02:18:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lindsay Haisley writes:

 > > but if they're going to make modifications to it, they need to share
 > > those modifications back with us
 > 
 > Doesn't their failure to do so violate the GPL?

No.  The GPL requires that you grant certain rights to use of your
code to downstream recipients, not that you publish code or give it
back to upstream developers.

It's failure to provide source code to paying customers (even if the
price was zero) that violates the GPL.  If one of us is willing to buy
a server system and demand source code, they either cough up or they
suffer a rerun of the Objective-C embarrassment, and then they either
cough up anyway or they lose the right to distribute Mailman.

Alternatively, if somebody knows somebody with a server system who's
willing to piss off Apple, the first somebody could get the second
somebody to do it.

This has been done in other contexts (the cPanel Mailman patch was
outed at least once by a customer, and maybe Plesk's, too), but the
history with Apple seems to go like this:

1.  Bug bites Mac server system's Mailman.
2.  Victim wastes time talking to Apple.  By the time they realize it
    is a waste of time, they're panicking.
3.  Willing to do anything, they come here and are advised to install
    Mailman from source as described in our INSTALL file.  (This
    advice was especially effective when coming from Chuq. :-)
4.  Victim discovers there's nothing they want from the Apple version,
    and by the time they've put out all the other little fires that
    sprang up while they were fighting the Mailman fire, they cool off
    enough to realize there's nothing to benefit *anybody* in the
    Apple version, and it would be best if it just went away, so they
    don't bother asking for code. ;-)

Steve

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 20 20:06:34 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:06:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <9FFA80C5-2CCF-4C66-80D9-7204CC4E62E0@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com> wrote:

> My guess is that they don't put their top-flight people on either server
> development or server support.

I believe that they do have high quality people working on the development side, I think the issue is more on the support side.  And the fact that they don't want to talk to *ANYONE* outside of the server team itself.

>                                 Apple isn't know for servers, it's niche
> markets being audio recording, graphics editing and consumer desktop and
> laptop systems.

The irony is that they've done quite well on the server side, in the SOHO and workgroup business market.  Since Snow Leopard, the server version has been much cheaper than Windows server solutions, and they don't put any limits on how many machines you can use your licensed copy of the software -- which is why I always made sure to buy the group or family license (authorized for up to five machines), even though I was only using it one two or three machines in the house.

Apple's problems have historically been with the Enterprise market, as opposed to SOHO and workgroups.

>                  I've also observed, with somewhat limited experience,
> that Apple doesn't respond to complaints about bugs.  People bitched and
> moaned on Apple's user forum about a recent problem with video-induced
> kernel panics in Lion (which I also experienced) and Apple never
> responded, but the problem was fixed in a subsequent release.

Apple does listen to complaints and usually does respond, in different ways to different types of complaints -- also depending on how loudly people are complaining and how many of them there are.  Fixing a problem in the next release is one way they respond, another way is holding an impromptu press conference to explain why "Antennagate" is much ado about very little.

However, Apple frequently does not respond in the way that most people would expect or want them to.  I think a simple acknowledgement that there is a problem would go a long ways towards defusing a lot of the issues that have happened in the past.

>> but if they're going to make modifications to it, they need to share
>> those modifications back with us
> 
> Doesn't their failure to do so violate the GPL?

In this respect, I believe that they are probably in violation of the spirit of the GPL, but perhaps not in the letter of the law.  Which is probably why they are so very violently opposed to having any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the company.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 20 20:18:50 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:18:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 20, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> It's failure to provide source code to paying customers (even if the
> price was zero) that violates the GPL.  If one of us is willing to buy
> a server system and demand source code, they either cough up or they
> suffer a rerun of the Objective-C embarrassment, and then they either
> cough up anyway or they lose the right to distribute Mailman.
> 
> Alternatively, if somebody knows somebody with a server system who's
> willing to piss off Apple, the first somebody could get the second
> somebody to do it.

I've got a copy of Mountain Lion server (it's only $20), and the code in question is Python, so it has to be shipped as source.  So, if we want their changes, it's easy enough to get them.

For me, the point is more than they don't actively contribute their changes back to the project, and actively support those changes.  If they actively contributed their changes back and actively supported their changes, then we could easily adapt the mainstream version of Mailman so that it would install and build in exactly the same locations with exactly the same localized changes for the platform, and then it should be trivial for people to upgrade.

More importantly, it would be much less difficult for us to support that part of the community, which would help reduce the support burden that Apple has to maintain.


With Xcode switching from llvm from gcc for the backend, and the way that llvm is continuing to be developed in partnership, maybe we can convince them to take a similar approach to Mailman and other open source software?

> This has been done in other contexts (the cPanel Mailman patch was
> outed at least once by a customer, and maybe Plesk's, too), but the
> history with Apple seems to go like this:
> 
> 1.  Bug bites Mac server system's Mailman.
> 2.  Victim wastes time talking to Apple.  By the time they realize it
>    is a waste of time, they're panicking.
> 3.  Willing to do anything, they come here and are advised to install
>    Mailman from source as described in our INSTALL file.  (This
>    advice was especially effective when coming from Chuq. :-)

Yes, well -- he had the advantage that not only was he an Apple employee, he was also running lists.apple.com, and used Mailman to do it.  Other people working at Apple would not have nearly the same level of impact.

> 4.  Victim discovers there's nothing they want from the Apple version,
>    and by the time they've put out all the other little fires that
>    sprang up while they were fighting the Mailman fire, they cool off
>    enough to realize there's nothing to benefit *anybody* in the
>    Apple version, and it would be best if it just went away, so they
>    don't bother asking for code. ;-)

That sequence of events doesn't serve anyone well -- not the customer, nor Apple, nor our community.  We can do better.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 20 20:25:15 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:25:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <AA0B516A-767A-419B-9641-A685E97D382F@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 20, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> With Xcode switching from llvm from gcc for the backend, and the way that llvm is continuing to be developed in partnership, maybe we can convince them to take a similar approach to Mailman and other open source software?

s/from llvm/to llvm/

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Aug 20 20:39:17 2012
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:39:17 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1208202136540.3504@data.home>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Brad Knowles wrote:

> I've got a copy of Mountain Lion server (it's only $20), and the code in 
> question is Python, so it has to be shipped as source.  So, if we want 
> their changes, it's easy enough to get them.

Actually, it doesn't have to be shipped as source.  They could ship just 
the .pyc files.

But this doesn't mean it's not shipped as source.  Anyone with Apple 
Server could confirm this one way or the other.

Geoff.


From fmouse at fmp.com  Mon Aug 20 21:27:30 2012
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:27:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1208202136540.3504@data.home>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1208202136540.3504@data.home>
Message-ID: <1345490850.2566.78.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 21:39 +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> > I've got a copy of Mountain Lion server (it's only $20), and the code in 
> > question is Python, so it has to be shipped as source.  So, if we want 
> > their changes, it's easy enough to get them.
> 
> Actually, it doesn't have to be shipped as source.  They could ship just 
> the .pyc files.

The GPL only requires that the source be "made available", yes?  So
functionally the .pyc files would be adequate for all but a few files
such as Defaults.py, with the full .py source withheld pending a
specific request for it, as prescribed by the GPL.  Doing this would
minimize redundancy and would make sense, from the point of view of a
proprietary software vendor such as Apple.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The difference between a duck is because
FMP Computer Services |    one leg is both the same"
512-259-1190          |     - Anonymous
http://www.fmp.com    |


From david at davidrenstrom.com  Tue Aug 21 00:38:18 2012
From: david at davidrenstrom.com (=?us-ascii?Q?David_Renstrom?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 00:38:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem when creating new lists
Message-ID: <16034B35787B4562BF0506FB8ECB319B@Daviddator>

Hi,

Everytime I create a new list using the Web interface in Mailman I get the
following error:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.14
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

The file /etc/mailman/Virtual-mailman has changed ownership from mailman to
apache. I have to change it manually and then run the genaliases and postmap
commands to make the system work correctly again.

Could someone please tell me what's wrong because I'm kinda lost? See below
for more info.

Content of /var/log/mailman/error:
Aug 20 23:54:13 2012 (29703) command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/etc/mailman/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
Aug 20 23:54:13 2012 admin(29703):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(29703): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.14 -----]
admin(29703): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(29703): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(29703):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
admin(29703):     main()
admin(29703):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in
main
admin(29703):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(29703):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 239, in
process_request
admin(29703):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
admin(29703):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 238, in
create
admin(29703):     _update_maps()
admin(29703):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in
_update_maps
admin(29703):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
admin(29703): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/etc/mailman/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
admin(29703): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(29703): sys.version     =   2.7.1 (r271:86832, Apr 12 2011, 16:15:16) 
[GCC 4.6.0 20110331 (Red Hat 4.6.0-2)] 
admin(29703): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python 
admin(29703): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
admin(29703): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
admin(29703): sys.path        =   ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib',
'/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman',
'/usr/lib64/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/',
'/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-tk',
'/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-dynload',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages'] 
admin(29703): sys.platform    =   linux2 
admin(29703): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_COOKIE:
SESSae9265d1ff1a26d16ed53a0ed247816c=i2mjdepcbf7rgac7kgreaeh2t3;
SESSd6dc799775a4e319c149c4959a84efa2=vah0edt1d26euphiurqulrncd1 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.21 (Fedora) 
admin(29703): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/create 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.21 (Fedora) Server at
www.ungasynskadade.se Port 80</address>
admin(29703): 
admin(29703): 	REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(29703): 	QUERY_STRING:  
admin(29703): 	CONTENT_LENGTH: 151 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows
NT 6.0; Trident/5.0) 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://www.ungasynskadade.se/mailman/create 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_NAME: www.ungasynskadade.se 
admin(29703): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 94.254.99.6 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_PORT: 80 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_ADDR: 91.123.204.174 
admin(29703): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html 
admin(29703): 	PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman 
admin(29703): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create 
admin(29703): 	SERVER_ADMIN: root at localhost 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_HOST: www.ungasynskadade.se 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: no-cache 
admin(29703): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/create 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html, application/xhtml+xml, */* 
admin(29703): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
admin(29703): 	REMOTE_PORT: 59287 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: sv 
admin(29703): 	CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
admin(29703): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate 

Cheers,
/David R.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 21 03:14:07 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:14:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with Moderation
In-Reply-To: <6E619ACE-02ED-4BE1-9DF4-911322D4851C@d2net.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201208201814070312da31e6ff@MSAPIRO>

David Dodell wrote:

>I am running mailman on OSX Lion.
>
>Moderation through the web interface does not work.
>
>If I try to do anything from the web interface (see screenshot) ... I can see a split second of it accessing the server, and the screen refreshes and goes back to this default of "defer"
>
>Just no actions at all work.
>
>Any idea where I should look ... 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9> (ignore the "keeps asking
me to re-enter my password" part of the title).

Also, view the source of the page and look at the action= URL in the
form tag. Is this the same URL you see in the address bar of the
browser? If not, the issue is probably that of the web server
redirecting the URL and losing the POST data.

This can be fixed by setting DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN appropriately in
mm_cfg.py and running fix_url on the affected lists. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 21 04:03:31 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:03:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <9FFA80C5-2CCF-4C66-80D9-7204CC4E62E0@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<9FFA80C5-2CCF-4C66-80D9-7204CC4E62E0@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87wr0t6lxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > > Doesn't their failure to do so violate the GPL?
 > 
 > In this respect, I believe that they are probably in violation of
 > the spirit of the GPL, but perhaps not in the letter of the law.

RMS is adamantly opposed to that interpretation of the "spirit of the
GPL," and has said so on many occasions.  Usually in the context of
refusing to certify a license as a "free software license" because it
contains some kind of give-back clause.  Free software licenses are
allowed to contain only give-forward clauses.

 > Which is probably why they are so very violently opposed to having
 > any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the company.

GCC?  gdb?  binutils?  Make?  CUPS?  Mailman?  And that's just the
applications I know of in the Mac OS X distribution itself; I'm sure
there are plenty of developers who use Emacs and other GNU tools in
preference to the Mac-supplied tools at Apple.

That said, yes, Apple clearly avoids the GPL.  I think it's at least
in part a reaction to the Objective-C fiasco, but mostly a pragmatic
balance between the cost and quality benefits of using a lot of open
source and Apple's general strategy of exploiting intellectual
property in creative ways to make profits.  Including other folks' IP
(iTunes, for example, would be a much smaller deal if Napster hadn't
been crushed).

Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 21 04:19:22 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208201919220562da31e808@MSAPIRO>

David Dodell wrote:
>
>(1) First issue is cosmetic.    At the bottom of each administrative page, mailman does not display the icons which I see on ever other mailman website ... basically the mailman / python logos.   Not a real big deal, besides the cosmetic irk.   I've checked the docs, found the path in the config file, and sure enough the images are there in the path, but they still do not display.   Ideas?


Look in mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py for the definition of IMAGE_LOGOS.
Our default setting is

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'

which says the logo images should be displayed and will be found at
URLs like http://<url_host>/icons/<logo_file>. If there is something
like

IMAGE_LOGOS = 0

in mm_cfg.py, this is what says don't use the logos.

Look at the source of the page to see if there is an img tag for each
logo. If not, IMAGE_LOGOS has a False value. If so, you can adjust
IMAGE_LOGOS to generate a correct src= URL, or just make sure the
files are copied to the web server's /icons/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 21 04:29:10 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:29:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to disable notifications to moderator and
	ownerof pending posts?
In-Reply-To: <CAH-STh+9nLrNALuXWbF5=J=mfS+YQ7hjeLNPyX11i6TbMFLEVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208201929100000da31e5ca@MSAPIRO>

Mikael Jokela wrote:
>
>I have a list configuration question. I would like to totally disable
>email notifications for a list regarding pending posts. The list
>moderator or admin would login to the admindb page from time to time
>regardless any notifications. The moderator and admin would get
>notifications of membership requests and such but none of pending
>posts.
>
>I can't find a configuration parameter for this. How would you do this?


There is no configuration for this. Notifications about posts are
treated the same as notices about subscription requests.

You can turn off the immediate notices for a list by setting General
Options -> admin_immed_notify to No. You can turn off daily summary
notices for ALL lists by removing the cron/checkdbs entry from
Mailman's crontab.

Anything else requires modifying code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 21 05:21:50 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:21:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <87wr0t6lxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<9FFA80C5-2CCF-4C66-80D9-7204CC4E62E0@shub-internet.org>
	<87wr0t6lxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <FB2C8D38-45CF-4BD1-984C-3342AD3D97A4@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>> Which is probably why they are so very violently opposed to having
>> any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the company.
> 
> GCC?  gdb?  binutils?  Make?  CUPS?  Mailman?  And that's just the
> applications I know of in the Mac OS X distribution itself; I'm sure
> there are plenty of developers who use Emacs and other GNU tools in
> preference to the Mac-supplied tools at Apple.

Gcc & gdb are gone -- replaced by llvm.  I believe that CUPS is also gone, but I may be wrong.

And if another commenter on this thread is correct (I have not yet checked the Mountain Lion Server image that I have), then Mailman is also gone.

And I can most definitely confirm that Apple is actively eliminating any use of GPL-based technologies or tools within the company.


They even eliminated X out-of-the-box, although you can still download it from an alternative site.  Of course, you could claim that was a disk space issue, but then they're no longer shipping the OS on physical media.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 21 05:56:25 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:56:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87vcgc7v9y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > More importantly, it would be much less difficult for us to support
 > that part of the community, which would help reduce the support
 > burden that Apple has to maintain.

C'mon, Brad, it's *annoying* to have to support that part of the
community, but it's never been difficult.  "Install Mailman from
source, OK?"

 > With Xcode switching from llvm from gcc for the backend, and the
 > way that llvm is continuing to be developed in partnership, maybe
 > we can convince them to take a similar approach to Mailman and
 > other open source software?

llvm is a key component of their strategy for Mac OS X developer
support as far as I can see.  They did the same with CUPS for users.
But I don't think Mailman is a big part of their overall strategy.
They just considered it a cool thing to put in their distribution.

 > > (This advice was especially effective when coming from Chuq. :-)
 > 
 > Yes, well -- he had the advantage that not only was he an Apple
 > employee, he was also running lists.apple.com, and used Mailman to
 > do it.

Well, the real point is that as somebody running some of the biggest
most active lists in the world, he didn't use Apple's version -- he
used and advocated stock Mailman.  And he didn't have a lot nice to
say about Apple server support, either.

 > That sequence of events doesn't serve anyone well -- not the
 > customer, nor Apple, nor our community.  We can do better.

*We* can.  Apple won't.

Now, if somebody here can channel Steve Jobs and get direct access to
the top execs at Apple, maybe they could force the server people to
turn over maintenance to us.  But the server division would surely
fight that with fire.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 21 06:10:32 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:10:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <FB2C8D38-45CF-4BD1-984C-3342AD3D97A4@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<9FFA80C5-2CCF-4C66-80D9-7204CC4E62E0@shub-internet.org>
	<87wr0t6lxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<FB2C8D38-45CF-4BD1-984C-3342AD3D97A4@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87sjbg7umf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:
 > On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
 > 
 > >> Which is probably why they are so very violently opposed to having
 > >> any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the company.
 > > 
 > > GCC?  gdb?  binutils?  Make?  CUPS?  Mailman?
 > 
 > Gcc & gdb are gone -- replaced by llvm.

Sure, and I can see why they'd want to do that.  My point is simply
that Apple is pragmatic about it.  Sure, they want permissive licenses
if they can get them, and I think the FLOSS world is heading in that
direction.  I'm not surprised they take advantage of the trend.

 > They even eliminated X out-of-the-box,

X11 is still a mess, and their development philosophy still sucks for
users and 3rd-party developers.  If I can use the Mac GUI, I do.
Again, de-supporting X is arguably a pragmatic decision.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 21 07:28:22 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:28:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administratively subscribe other users via email
In-Reply-To: <502994EA.204@valnet.net>
References: <502994EA.204@valnet.net>
Message-ID: <50331C76.9000405@msapiro.net>

On 8/13/2012 4:59 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
> 
> The easiest way to do this would be to have my billing system send an
> email to mailman to subscribe the user.
> 
> However, I have as of yet been unable to locate any information on how
> to do so.
> 
> I've tried using the "Approved:" header with a subscribe command in the
> mail body, following the subscribe command syntax at
> http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node41.html, but the response back
> from mailman is that the commands remain unprocessed.


The Approved: header is ignored in this context. What remains
unprocessed? If it is the subscribe command, there is something wrong
with that command. If it is lines following the subscribe command, I
suspect the command was processed and a confirmation was send to the
address= address and the subscription is waiting confirmation from the user.


> What is the correct syntax for doing this?


That described at <http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node41.html>.

However, that probably won't work for you because the Approved: header
is ignored and the list's subscribe_policy is applied to the request.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> for pointers to other ways
to do what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 21 07:33:16 2012
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 00:33:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <87vcgc7v9y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
	<87vcgc7v9y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C91B509B-4A4E-4751-AD78-03DEE6C4EA13@shub-internet.org>

On Aug 20, 2012, at 10:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>> More importantly, it would be much less difficult for us to support
>> that part of the community, which would help reduce the support
>> burden that Apple has to maintain.
> 
> C'mon, Brad, it's *annoying* to have to support that part of the
> community, but it's never been difficult.  "Install Mailman from
> source, OK?"

That's not difficult for the likes of you or me, but I can guarantee you that doing something like installing Mailman from source is very difficult for the average OS X admin.

If Apple did their part, then we could do our part to make the upgrade process relatively simple and painless, even by OS X standards -- i.e., drag-n-drop and you're done.

> llvm is a key component of their strategy for Mac OS X developer
> support as far as I can see.  They did the same with CUPS for users.
> But I don't think Mailman is a big part of their overall strategy.
> They just considered it a cool thing to put in their distribution.

I think Mailman was a bigger part of their overall strategy prior to Mountain Lion, but if the reports are to be believed then they eliminated the install of Mailman at the same time as they eliminated the ability to easily run a web server based on the apache2 code that is still installed.

Sure, if you find the right articles on the right MacFanatic websites, you can be lead to a PrefPane that you can add to your system that will allow you to re-enable apache2, but that doesn't change the fact that apache is disabled by default and there is no standard OS-provided way to turn it back on.

Been there, already done that.


I think Apple is in the process of removing a lot of stuff from the Server component.  As to what motivation you want to ascribe those actions to, well that's your choice.

>> Yes, well -- he had the advantage that not only was he an Apple
>> employee, he was also running lists.apple.com, and used Mailman to
>> do it.
> 
> Well, the real point is that as somebody running some of the biggest
> most active lists in the world, he didn't use Apple's version -- he
> used and advocated stock Mailman.  And he didn't have a lot nice to
> say about Apple server support, either.

My point was more about the fact that he said the things he did, but specifically as the guy who was running lists.apple.com.

No other person who works (or worked) at Apple and said the same sorts of things would be likely to carry the same kind of weight.  And no one outside of Apple would be able to say the same kinds of things and have them carry the same kind of weight with people who are using OS X Server.

The key is not just what he was saying, which I was taking as granted.  The key is that he was saying those things as a person uniquely positioned to be able to say them and have them carry weight with the particular user community in question.

> *We* can.  Apple won't.

As I said, we can do better.

> Now, if somebody here can channel Steve Jobs and get direct access to
> the top execs at Apple, maybe they could force the server people to
> turn over maintenance to us.  But the server division would surely
> fight that with fire.

At their worst, they would not have fought the effort with fire.  They would have simply ignored it, and it would never have happened.


However, I am starting to wonder if this kind of stuff going away is not part of an overall effort to dumb-down OS X so that it can be unified with iOS.

I do recall some slips at the WWDC Keynote address where it was referred to as "iOS X" by a couple of people....  At least, it does make me wonder how something like Mailman could be re-written to work effectively on something like iOS.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 21 08:02:11 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:02:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem when creating new lists
In-Reply-To: <16034B35787B4562BF0506FB8ECB319B@Daviddator>
Message-ID: <PC1952012082023021109061ee96955@MSAPIRO>

David Renstrom wrote:
>
>Everytime I create a new list using the Web interface in Mailman I get the
>following error:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.14
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
>
>The file /etc/mailman/Virtual-mailman has changed ownership from mailman to
>apache. I have to change it manually and then run the genaliases and postmap
>commands to make the system work correctly again.


The owner of virtual-mailman shouldn't matter. The fact that this file
is in /etc/mailman/ rather than Mailman's data/ directory tells me you
are running someone's package. Please see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

This could be a permissions or a SELinux issue.

What gets updated when you run genaliases? It should run both the
postalias and postmap commands. Do these succeed when you run
genaliases. You seem to imply that postalias succeeds, but postmap
fails and you need to run it by hand.


>Could someone please tell me what's wrong because I'm kinda lost? See below
>for more info.
>
>Content of /var/log/mailman/error:
>Aug 20 23:54:13 2012 (29703) command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
>/etc/mailman/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)


Here it is postalias that fails. This has nothing to do with
virtual-mailman. It is reading /etc/mailman/aliases and updating
/etc/mailman/aliases.db and apparently doesn't have permission to do
so. If things are as they should be, the create process should be
running as the apache user with effective group = mailman (because
Mailman's cgi-bin/create wrapper is group mailman and SETGID and the
mailman group should be able to read and write /etc/mailman/aliases,
/etc/mailman/aliases.db, /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman and
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman.db. If the permissions are OK, it is
probably a SELinux issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 21 11:52:34 2012
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:52:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion
In-Reply-To: <C91B509B-4A4E-4751-AD78-03DEE6C4EA13@shub-internet.org>
References: <580D6EF8-443E-4C3A-9745-FDC3FA59B409@mac.com>
	<E40F6509-9111-4477-B551-2F3FDFB334F3@admilon.net>
	<1345425116.17167.21.camel@indra.fmp.com>
	<16B7D0AC-EC14-4342-8C1B-B509623C0A72@shub-internet.org>
	<1345471237.2566.26.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<874nnxqy6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<890B4E29-9FAC-4986-B31A-008A2489804E@shub-internet.org>
	<87vcgc7v9y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<C91B509B-4A4E-4751-AD78-03DEE6C4EA13@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87ipcc4lnh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > However, I am starting to wonder if this kind of stuff going away
 > is not part of an overall effort to dumb-down OS X so that it can
 > be unified with iOS.

Could be, but in that case I would expect that their strategy is to
completely eliminate server support, and try to get MacUsers to use
iCloud to provide all server services.

And they can use all the GPLed code they want in the iCloud, and noone
need ever even know....

 > I do recall some slips at the WWDC Keynote address where it was
 > referred to as "iOS X" by a couple of people....  At least, it does
 > make me wonder how something like Mailman could be re-written to
 > work effectively on something like iOS.

Mailman would be fine, if they'd allow us to port Python to iOS.  The
problem would be the MTA.


From harrison at utm.edu  Tue Aug 21 16:33:39 2012
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:33:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is bin/find_members available from web interface
	directly ?
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2C8DFE4F0@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>


I know I can do a subscribe/unsubscribe via a web call:

List a member:
http://example.com/mailman/admin/<listname>/members?findmember=<email-address>&setmemberopts_btn&adminpw=<adminpassword>

Is it possible to call the /bin/find_member script to retrieve a list of lists a person is subscribed to?
Is there another way to get this particular bit of information?

Bruce Harrison
UT Martin

From sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com  Tue Aug 21 20:22:37 2012
From: sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9batien_Andreatta?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 20:22:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot ->
	user unknown )
In-Reply-To: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nobody can help me please ?

Thanks again


2012/8/18 S?batien Andreatta <sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com>

> Hello,
>
> I have been looking for weeks on google , but i have not found valid
> answer :
>
> How to integrate Mailman with postfix without the use of
> postfix-to-mailman.py script wich is not officialy supported ?
>
> I have a working installation : Postfix -> Amavisd ( clamd , spamassassin
> ) And dovecot
>
> I followed all the howto that i have found but it still doesn't work.
>
> I would like to have all my lists on a subdomain : lists.mydomain.be
>
> So , now here is my configuration :
>
> postconf -n
>
> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
> command_directory = /usr/sbin
> config_directory = /etc/postfix
> content_filter = amavisfeed:[127.0.0.1]:10024
> daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
> data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
> debug_peer_level = 2
> html_directory = no
> inet_interfaces = all
> inet_protocols = all
> mail_owner = postfix
> mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
> manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
> mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost,
> lists.mydomain.be
> mydomain = mydomain.be
> myhostname = smeagoln.mydomain.be
> myorigin = $mydomain
> newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
> queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
> readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/README_FILES
> recipient_delimiter = +
> relay_domains = $mydestination
> relayhost = relay.domain.be
> sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/samples
> sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
> setgid_group = postdrop
> smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
> unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
> virtual_alias_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-aliases.cf,
> hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
> virtual_gid_maps = static:493
> virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts/
> virtual_mailbox_domains = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-domains.cf
> virtual_mailbox_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap-accounts.cf
> virtual_transport = dovecot
> virtual_uid_maps = static:493
>
> mm_cfg.py
>
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   ='www.mydomain.be'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'smeagoln.mydomain.be'
>
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.be']
>
> maillog :
>
> Aug 18 19:22:47 mydomain postfix/qmgr[6085]: F05353E92: from=<
> crupuk at mydomain.be>, size=914, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> Aug 18 19:22:47 mydomain dovecot: imap-login: Login: user=<
> crupuk at mydomain.be>, method=PLAIN, rip=::1, lip=::1, mpid=6139, secured
> Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain amavis[4479]: (04479-05) Passed CLEAN, MYNETS
> LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1] <crupuk at mydomain.be> -> <test at mydomain.be>,
> Message-ID: <1d504d6a1f2f9954ecc5ab2f4a193b9e at mydomain.be>, mail_id:
> zAsh0XT4N+qM, Hits: -0.999, size: 510, queued_as: F05353E92, 5437 ms
> Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain dovecot: imap(crupuk at mydomain.be): Disconnected:
> Logged out bytes=82/572
> Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain postfix/lmtp[6123]: BE3CE3E8F: to=<
> test at mydomain.be>, orig_to=<test at lists.mydomain.be>,
> relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=6.8, delays=0.31/0.49/0.25/5.7,
> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, id=04479-05, from
> MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as F05353E92)
> Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain postfix/qmgr[6085]: BE3CE3E8F: removed
> Aug 18 19:22:48 mydomain dovecot: imap(crupuk at mydomain.be): Disconnected:
> Logged out bytes=307/8873
> Aug 18 19:22:49 mydomain postfix/pipe[6138]: F05353E92: to=<
> test at mydomain.be>, relay=dovecot, delay=2.4, delays=0.2/1.3/0/0.86,
> dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (user unknown)
>
>
> Mailman version : 2.1.12 ( So , I can't use VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN )
>
> So,  how can I do for deliver all mail for test at lists.mydomain.be by
> local agent and so, use alias_maps ?
>
> Thanks for your help
>

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Aug 21 20:37:15 2012
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 20:37:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot ->
 user unknown )
In-Reply-To: <CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120821183715.GE18093@charite.de>

* S?batien Andreatta <sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com>:
> >
> > How to integrate Mailman with postfix without the use of
> > postfix-to-mailman.py script wich is not officialy supported ?

Just use aliases.

> > alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
> > alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

That looks OK.

> > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost,
> > lists.mydomain.be

So sending mail to mailman at lists.mydomain.be should work.
Try that. What's in the log for that?

> > mm_cfg.py
> >
> > DEFAULT_URL_HOST   ='www.mydomain.be'
> > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'smeagoln.mydomain.be'

Shouldn't it be lists.mydomain.be ?

> > MTA = 'Postfix'
> > POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.be']

But it's not a virtual domain.

> > So,  how can I do for deliver all mail for test at lists.mydomain.be by
> > local agent and so, use alias_maps ?

lists.mydomain.be must be in mydestination.

Try adding:
lists.mydomain.be local:
in transport_maps (just to make absolutely sure nothing else gets hold
of that domain)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 21 21:56:25 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:56:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is bin/find_members available from web
	interfacedirectly ?
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2C8DFE4F0@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952012082112562502816ef5a432@MSAPIRO>

Bruce Harrison wrote:
>
>Is it possible to call the /bin/find_member script to retrieve a list of lists a person is subscribed to?


Only by creating a wrapper to be executed by the web server that would
run bin/find_member and report results.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>, in particular, the
members.c wrapper linked therefrom.


>Is there another way to get this particular bit of information?

http://example.com/mailman/options/LIST/user at example.net?othersubs=1&password=xxx


where LIST is one of the lists of which user at example.net is a member
and xxx is either the user's password for this list or the site
password. The list admin password won't work, and the site password
will only work if

ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG  Wed Aug 22 16:24:50 2012
From: Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.ORG (Futchko, Rose)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:24:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman: Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	in local recipient table
Message-ID: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E5061171B7@mail1.informs.org>

Good Morning,

I just finished migrating Mailman from one server to another, following
the instructions at URL
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030682

I am running Mailman version is 2.1.15

But now I am seeing the following error in my /var/log/maillog "NOQUEUE:
reject: RCPT from unknown[]: 550 5.1.1 <external IP Address>: Recipient
address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<d> to=<>
proto=ESMTP helo=<[]>"

Here is  my postconf -n output:

alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
html_directory = no
inet_protocols = all
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
mydestination = $myhostname, list.$mydomain
mydomain = informs.org
myhostname = mail.informs.org
myorigin = $myhostname
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.6.6/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks
reject_unauth_destination
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550

Here is my mm_cfg.py config file:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'list.informs.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.informs.org'

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

MTA = 'Postfix'

*************

Can someone please counsel as to how to correct this error? 
Thank you,
Rose



Rose Futchko
Director of Information Technology
INFORMS
7240 Parkway Drive, Suite 300
Hanover, MD 21076
Rose.Futchko at INFORMS.org
443.757.3500



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 22 16:38:09 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 07:38:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman: Recipient address rejected: User
	unknownin local recipient table
In-Reply-To: <050C37C3BC21CC4483AC395BAFEC94E5061171B7@mail1.informs.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201208220738090640a85b2fc9@MSAPIRO>

Futchko, Rose wrote:
>
>But now I am seeing the following error in my /var/log/maillog "NOQUEUE:
>reject: RCPT from unknown[]: 550 5.1.1 <external IP Address>: Recipient
>address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<d> to=<>
>proto=ESMTP helo=<[]>"


If "from=<d> to=<>" are literally what is in the log message, this is a
message with envelope from 'd' and to ''. I'm not sure how this could
occur (possibly a broken spambot), but it doesn't seem to have
anything to do with Mailman or any message to a Mailman list.

[...]
>Can someone please counsel as to how to correct this error? 


Tell the admins of the server at 'external IP Address' to quit engaging
in bogus SMTP dialogs with your server or block the IP address with
iptables or another firewall.

Do you actually have a problem with Mailman and posts to Mailman lists?
If so, what are the details of that problem?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Thu Aug 23 14:29:40 2012
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:29:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will this cause problems for the lists?
Message-ID: <A5516D1928EF5B46BFE2E3A626B322CE2FDA83A5@EXC-JONES.nhm.ac.uk>

Hi all,

 Just been reading the wonderful emails and pages about upgrading Mailman, which is a task I've had to do once before. Now one thing that really gives me the shivers is the idea of installing the new updated version of Mailman right over the old/current version as I've seen suggested a couple of time. OK, if it works for you fine but I feel that that leaves you very little room for rollback should the new version not perform quite as expected.

So I currently have a nice working setup that's installed as /usr/local/mailman-2.x.x symlink'ed to /usr/local/mailman and that works just fine. It allows me to have the current version and the previous version there for comparison/rollback/experimenting.

Now one thing I have noticed that has bothered me/caused me some problems with this sort of setup is that everytime I have to upgrade I have to copy all the mail-list data out, then make sure that ownerships/permissions of the mail-list data in its new location is correct.

So I had an idea. What if I make a directory, /usr/local/mailman-data for instance and then symlink the data, lists and archive directories from the current active mailman directories back into this separated data directory. I've been running with this setup for a few days now and it seems to be working just  fine, no complaints from users or systems. I'm also thinking that it is likely to make upgrades require less downtime as the new version can be built and linked into the current list data and then rolled over. OK, maybe not if there a file format conversion needed but in general yes.

However, I'm just wondering if I may be building up a problem for myself when one of the "less frequent" Mailman processes or events occur. So is separating the data out from the mailman binaries in this way a good idea or not worth the effort?

Regards,
Steff Watkins
-----
Steff Watkins?? ??????? ??????? Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London,SW75BD
Systems programmer?????? ??????? Email: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk
Systems Team???? ??????? ??????? Phone: +44 (0)20 7942 6000 opt 2
========
"Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans." - HHGTTG



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 23 17:28:18 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 08:28:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will this cause problems for the lists?
In-Reply-To: <A5516D1928EF5B46BFE2E3A626B322CE2FDA83A5@EXC-JONES.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <A5516D1928EF5B46BFE2E3A626B322CE2FDA83A5@EXC-JONES.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <50364C12.7090401@msapiro.net>

On 8/23/2012 5:29 AM, Steff Watkins wrote:
> 
> So I had an idea. What if I make a directory, /usr/local/mailman-data
> for instance and then symlink the data, lists and archive directories
> from the current active mailman directories back into this separated
> data directory. I've been running with this setup for a few days now
> and it seems to be working just  fine, no complaints from users or
> systems. I'm also thinking that it is likely to make upgrades require
> less downtime as the new version can be built and linked into the
> current list data and then rolled over. OK, maybe not if there a file
> format conversion needed but in general yes.


I think there may be a better way to to this. When you run configure,
specify --prefix= and --with-var-prefix= to be separate directories, e.g.
--prefix=/usr/local/mailman-2.x.x --with-var-prefix=/usr/local/mailman-data.

This will put the archives, data, lists, locks, logs, qfiles and spam
directories in /usr/local/mailman-data and the Mailman, bin, cgi-bin,
cron, icons, mail, messages, pythonlib, scripts, templates and tests
directories in /usr/local/mailman-2.x.x.

If you do this consistently, you will have only one set of mutable data
in /usr/local/mailman-data and any particular version's immutable code
in its own /usr/local/mailman-2.x.x directory. Then, running
'/usr/local/mailman-2.x.x/bin/mailmanctl start' will start that version
and all versions will use the same data.

There could be issues with file conversions, but the only such things in
the last 10+ releases on the 2.1 branch have been backward compatible
and are likely to remain so.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pwmerritt at weirdwater.org  Fri Aug 24 04:20:42 2012
From: pwmerritt at weirdwater.org (=?utf-8?Q?Peter_Merritt?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:20:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration of old debian woody mailman server
Message-ID: <zarafa.5036e4fa.2f7b.553e0f2045413c2d@server.weirdwater.org>

I have to migrate a dead mailman server running on debian woody to a new Ubuntu server. The drive failed and I was able to image the drive to a new drive but mailman will not run, seems that their is significant problems with the current mailman installation. All the commands seem die with python tracebacks. The data directories for mailman seen to be OK. I did some research on moving a list to a new server an it seems reasonably easy. But I am concerned about moving from an older version of mailman to a newer version. Additionally, I am going to use postfix for the mta, the old server is using exim. I also notice postgres running on the old server and wonder if exim/mailman could be using to for management. I did not have time to fully research the setup, its been running unattended for 8+ years.? I am looking for input about possible pitfalls and ideas to make this go easier Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

??????????????????????????????????????????????? Peter 

?
partsmaps at weirdwater.org? <- Do not Use

?

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Fri Aug 24 18:57:25 2012
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:57:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration of old debian woody mailman server
In-Reply-To: <zarafa.5036e4fa.2f7b.553e0f2045413c2d@server.weirdwater.org>
References: <zarafa.5036e4fa.2f7b.553e0f2045413c2d@server.weirdwater.org>
Message-ID: <BB9F4444F3417B4993F70CAA3C974F9504EB1782@sha-ex10-mbx02.exchange.simply.ms>

Peter Merritt wrote:

>I have to migrate a dead mailman server running on debian woody to a new Ubuntu server. The drive failed and I was able to image the drive to >a new drive but mailman will not run, seems that their is significant problems with the current mailman installation. All the commands seem >die with python tracebacks. The data directories for mailman seen to be OK. I did some research on moving a list to a new server an it seems >reasonably easy. But I am concerned about moving from an older version of mailman to a newer version. Additionally, I am going to use postfix >for the mta, the old server is using exim. I also notice postgres running on the old server and wonder if exim/mailman could be using to for >management. I did not have time to fully research the setup, its been running unattended for 8+ years.? I am looking for input about possible >pitfalls and ideas to make this go easier Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

This isn't an exhaustive list of things you will need to do but will go some way towards it:

You definitely need the files in /var/lib/mailman/archives, and /var/lib/mailman/lists.  When you install a new Mailman version, copy those directories over the top, then run check_perms as root, followed by the update command to get the lists config files updated to the new version.  You will need to look at the /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py file and merge changes from the old installation, namely for the hostnames/URL patterns etc.  Once you get some of the mailman commands running without errors, its time to configure Postfix and Apache to talk to the new installation.

Let us know how that goes.
Andrew. 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 24 19:28:35 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:28:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration of old debian woody mailman server
In-Reply-To: <zarafa.5036e4fa.2f7b.553e0f2045413c2d@server.weirdwater.org>
References: <zarafa.5036e4fa.2f7b.553e0f2045413c2d@server.weirdwater.org>
Message-ID: <5037B9C3.1060102@msapiro.net>

On 8/23/2012 7:20 PM, Peter Merritt wrote:
> I have to migrate a dead mailman server running on debian woody to a
> new Ubuntu server. The drive failed and I was able to image the drive
> to a new drive but mailman will not run, seems that their is
> significant problems with the current mailman installation. All the
> commands seem die with python tracebacks.


Run bin/check_perms with the -f option as root. If that doesn't fix
things, post some of the tracebacks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Aug 27 07:41:03 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:41:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch puzzle
Message-ID: <1346046063.2803.35.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

I've set up mailman 2.1.15 on a new server, properly configured with
"--with-mail-gid=mail" and I can create lists from scratch on it, and
they appear to be working perfectly.

I have a number of lists on an older server, however, (also running
mailman) which I want to move to the new server.  I have a script which
I've used previously with good results to do this which creates three
tarballs:

* The contents of the directory /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>
* The archive files under /var/lib/mailman/private/<listname>
* The mbox file in /var/lib/mailman/private/<listname>.mbox

Additionally a flag file indicates whether or not archives are public.

The receiving server has a script which just undoes this, putting all
the files in the right place and creating a symlink
in /var/lib/mailman/public if the flag file is present indicating that
the list has public archives.

This script pair worked perfectly for moving lists between servers using
the same Linux distribution, but at this point I'm moving from a server
running Gentoo Linux to one running Ubuntu Server Linux, where the GID
table is somewhat different.  When I try to post to a _moved_ list, I
get a failure with the following error in the mail logs:

        Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
        wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
        the system's mail server executed the mail script as
        group "man".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
        script as group "mail", or re-run configure, 
        providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=man'.
        
        [i.e.  "mail" != "man"]
        
It seems that the group "mail" has a GID of 12 on the old server,
however this GID corresponds to the group "man" on the new server and
"mail" has a GID of 8.  All the group ownerships of the pickle files and
archive files are proper on the new server (group "mailman") so the GID
if 12 must be encoded as a number somewhere _within_ the list files
imported from the old server, and when the list is put in place on new
server, the GID is matched up with the group "man", and a group mismatch
is flagged.

Does anyone have any idea how to fix this?  I can't find any way to
access the mail wrapper script GID in the list web UI (which apparently
is stored per-list since lists created _on_ the server work OK).  I have
bunch of lists to move, so this will need to be fixed.  Recreating all
lists manually with their thousands of administrator and user prefs is
out of the question!

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Real programmers use butterflies"
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |       - xkcd
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Aug 27 17:32:47 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:32:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch puzzle
In-Reply-To: <1346046063.2803.35.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1346046063.2803.35.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1346081567.2803.52.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

I've looked into the pickled files for the problem list with dumpdb and
found no reference to the GID which might lock the "mail wrapper script"
onto the group ID of the server from which the list was exported.
Googling for "mail wrapper script" turns up lots of references, going
back many years, to the problem of an improperly set --with-mail-gid at
configure time, however this isn't the case here, since this was
properly set on the new server, and the problem occurs only with a list
imported from the old server where the numeric GID was different from
that of the "mail" group on the new server.

check_perms returns "No problems found".

What is the "mail wrapper script" to which the error message refers?

On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 00:41 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> I've set up mailman 2.1.15 on a new server, properly configured with
> "--with-mail-gid=mail" and I can create lists from scratch on it, and
> they appear to be working perfectly.
> 
> I have a number of lists on an older server, however, (also running
> mailman) which I want to move to the new server.  I have a script which
> I've used previously with good results to do this which creates three
> tarballs:
> 
> * The contents of the directory /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>
> * The archive files under /var/lib/mailman/private/<listname>
> * The mbox file in /var/lib/mailman/private/<listname>.mbox
> 
> Additionally a flag file indicates whether or not archives are public.
> 
> The receiving server has a script which just undoes this, putting all
> the files in the right place and creating a symlink
> in /var/lib/mailman/public if the flag file is present indicating that
> the list has public archives.
> 
> This script pair worked perfectly for moving lists between servers using
> the same Linux distribution, but at this point I'm moving from a server
> running Gentoo Linux to one running Ubuntu Server Linux, where the GID
> table is somewhat different.  When I try to post to a _moved_ list, I
> get a failure with the following error in the mail logs:
> 
>         Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>         wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
>         the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>         group "man".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>         script as group "mail", or re-run configure, 
>         providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=man'.
>         
>         [i.e.  "mail" != "man"]
>         
> It seems that the group "mail" has a GID of 12 on the old server,
> however this GID corresponds to the group "man" on the new server and
> "mail" has a GID of 8.  All the group ownerships of the pickle files and
> archive files are proper on the new server (group "mailman") so the GID
> if 12 must be encoded as a number somewhere _within_ the list files
> imported from the old server, and when the list is put in place on new
> server, the GID is matched up with the group "man", and a group mismatch
> is flagged.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea how to fix this?  I can't find any way to
> access the mail wrapper script GID in the list web UI (which apparently
> is stored per-list since lists created _on_ the server work OK).  I have
> bunch of lists to move, so this will need to be fixed.  Recreating all
> lists manually with their thousands of administrator and user prefs is
> out of the question!

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       |  "Humor will get you through times of no humor
FMP Computer Services |      better than no humor will get you through
512-259-1190          |         times of humor."
http://www.fmp.com    |            - Butch Hancock


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Aug 27 18:55:27 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:55:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch puzzle - SOLVED!
In-Reply-To: <1346081567.2803.52.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1346046063.2803.35.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
	<1346081567.2803.52.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1346086527.27990.7.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

As I had begun to suspect, this had nothing to do with Mailman.

I imported MySQL records from the old server for authenticating mail
users and assigning virtual mailboxes.  All of these contained numeric
GID records appropriate for that installation, and the mail server
indeed ran with that GID when communication with Mailman.  A single
MySQL command corrected this for 260 mailboxes and alias accounts and
all is well!

My scripts which created _new_ records in this db set the proper GID out
of the chute.

.linuxmint.com/start/lisa/On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 10:32 -0500, Lindsay
Haisley wrote:
> I've looked into the pickled files for the problem list with dumpdb and
> found no reference to the GID which might lock the "mail wrapper script"
> onto the group ID of the server from which the list was exported.
> Googling for "mail wrapper script" turns up lots of references, going
> back many years, to the problem of an improperly set --with-mail-gid at
> configure time, however this isn't the case here, since this was
> properly set on the new server, and the problem occurs only with a list
> imported from the old server where the numeric GID was different from
> that of the "mail" group on the new server.
> 
> check_perms returns "No problems found".
> 
> What is the "mail wrapper script" to which the error message refers?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The only unchanging certainty
FMP Computer Services |    is the certainty of change"
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    | - Ancient wisdom, all cultures


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Sun Aug 26 22:50:30 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 13:50:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp -> dovecot POP3
Message-ID: <503A8C16.3060206@gmail.com>

I've seen mention that mailman can be used between nntp and e-mail. 
What I'm looking for is to send nntp messages to e-mail, just one way. 
I don't need a full gateway such as gmane, just one way is sufficient.

Currently I'm using dovecot-postfix in Ubuntu with leafnode 
(http://leafnode.sourceforge.net/ )as the nntp server.  What would be 
involved in directing mailman at leafnode, on localhost, to e-mail a 
particular newsgroup?


thanks,

Thufir

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 27 19:39:45 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:39:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch puzzle
In-Reply-To: <1346081567.2803.52.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208271039450359b751e954@MSAPIRO>

Lindsay Haisley wrote:
>
>What is the "mail wrapper script" to which the error message refers?


$prefix/mail/mailman

It is a compiled binary wrapper (source is src/mail-wrapper.c in the
distribution) that ultimately calls one of the Python scripts in the
scripts/ directory (e.g. scripts/post) to handle a message to Mailman.
It is a compiled binary because it needs to be SETGID and SETGID isn't
honored on script files.

It's sole purpose is to be SETGID and set the effective group for the
process to Mailman's group, and to check that it is invoked from the
expected invoking group to prevent just anyone from running it. See
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9> for more on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 20:36:13 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:36:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] illegal list name (FQDN & hostname)
Message-ID: <503BBE1D.6060609@gmail.com>

Why does mailman see or use @dur for the FQDN when it should be
dur.bounceme.net?

thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ sudo newlist mailman
Enter the email of the person running the list: hawat.thufir at gmail.com
Initial mailman password:
Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.

Usage: /usr/sbin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr 
[admin-password]]]

Options:

     -l language
     --language=language
         Make the list's preferred language `language', which must be a two
         letter language code.

     -u urlhost
     --urlhost=urlhost
         Gives the list's web interface host name.

     -e emailhost
     --emailhost=emailhost
         Gives the list's email domain name.

     -q/--quiet
         Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a 
prompt) that
         their list has been created.  This option suppresses the prompt and
         notification.

     -h/--help
         Print this help text and exit.

You can specify as many of the arguments as you want on the command line:
you will be prompted for the missing ones.

Every Mailman list has two parameters which define the default host name for
outgoing email, and the default URL for all web interfaces.  When you
configured Mailman, certain defaults were calculated, but if you are running
multiple virtual Mailman sites, then the defaults may not be appropriate for
the list you are creating.

You also specify the domain to create your new list in by typing the command
like so:

     newlist --urlhost=www.mydom.ain mylist

where `www.mydom.ain' should be the base hostname for the URL to this 
virtual
hosts's lists.  E.g. with this setting people will view the general list
overviews at http://www.mydom.ain/mailman/listinfo.  Also, www.mydom.ain
should be a key in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS mapping in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py if
the email hostname to be automatically determined.

If you want the email hostname to be different from the one looked up by the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS or if urlhost is not registered in VIRTUAL_HOSTS, you can 
specify
`emailhost' like so:

     newlist --urlhost=www.mydom.ain --emailhost=mydom.ain mylist

where `mydom.ain' is the mail domain name. If you don't specify 
emailhost but
urlhost is not in the virtual host list, then mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST will
be used for the email interface.

For backward compatibility, you can also specify the domain to create your
new list in by spelling the listname like so:

     mylist at www.mydom.ain

where www.mydom.ain is used for `urlhost' but it will also be used for
`emailhost' if it is not found in the virtual host table. Note that
'--urlhost' and '--emailhost' have precedence to this notation.

If you spell the list name as just `mylist', then the email hostname will be
taken from DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and the url will be taken from DEFAULT_URL (as
defined in your Defaults.py file or overridden by settings in mm_cfg.py).

Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.

The list admin address need to be a fully-qualified address, like
owner at example.com, not just owner.

Illegal list name: mailman at dur
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1	localhost
127.0.1.1       dur.bounceme.net
# The following lines are desirable for IPv6 capable hosts
::1     ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
fe00::0 ip6-localnet
ff00::0 ip6-mcastprefix
ff02::1 ip6-allnodes
ff02::2 ip6-allrouters
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ cat /etc/hostname
dur.bounceme.net
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ hostname
dur.bounceme.net
thufir at dur:~$
thufir at dur:~$ cat /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=12.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=precise
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 12.04 LTS"
thufir at dur:~$


The help page:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman

doesn't provide any troubleshooting which I see.  However, I'm not the
only one to get this message:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052587.html

However, I see no solution available.




thanks,

Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 20:52:14 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:52:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] illegal list name (FQDN & hostname)
In-Reply-To: <503BBE1D.6060609@gmail.com>
References: <503BBE1D.6060609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <503BC1DE.8070609@gmail.com>

I think I got it:


root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# newlist mailman
Enter the email of the person running the list: hawat.thufir at gmail.com
Initial mailman password:
To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or
equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the
`newaliases' program:

## mailman mailing list
mailman:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

Hit enter to notify mailman owner...

root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# ll
total 52
drwxr-xr-x   3 root list  4096 Aug 27 11:46 ./
drwxr-xr-x 170 root root 12288 Aug 27 11:17 ../
-rw-r--r--   1 root root  2477 Oct 19  2011 apache.conf
drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 Aug 26 16:32 en/
-rw-r--r--   1 root root     0 Aug 26 16:32 leftover
-rw-r--r--   1 root root  4370 Aug 27 11:48 mm_cfg.py
-rw-r--r--   1 root root  4344 Aug 27 11:46 mm_cfg.py.1
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root root  6240 Oct 19  2011 postfix-to-mailman.py*
-rwxrwxr-x   1 root root  4090 Oct 19  2011 qmail-to-mailman.py*
root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# diff mm_cfg.py mm_cfg.py.1
66c66
< DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dur.bounceme.net'
---
 > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dur'
69c69
< DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'dur.bounceme.net'
---
 > DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'dur'
root at dur:/etc/mailman#



thanks,

Thufir

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 27 20:52:04 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:52:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] illegal list name (FQDN & hostname)
In-Reply-To: <503BBE1D.6060609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208271152040609230bbea5@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:

>Why does mailman see or use @dur for the FQDN when it should be
>dur.bounceme.net?
>
>thufir at dur:~$
>thufir at dur:~$
>thufir at dur:~$ sudo newlist mailman
[...]
>Illegal list name: mailman at dur


What is the contents of mm_cfg.py?

In particular, what are the settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and is there an

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

line following any settings for these?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 20:59:06 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:59:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] illegal list name (FQDN & hostname)
In-Reply-To: <PC195201208271152040609230bbea5@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201208271152040609230bbea5@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503BC37A.4060203@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 11:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
[...]
> What is the contents of mm_cfg.py?
>
> In particular, what are the settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and is there an
>
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
> line following any settings for these?
>
>

Thanks, I think it's working now:

root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# newaliases
root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# cat /etc/aliases
usenet: root
root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# nano /etc/aliases
root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# cat /etc/aliases
usenet: root

## mailman mailing list
mailman:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"


root at dur:/etc/mailman#
root at dur:/etc/mailman# diff mm_cfg.py mm_cfg.py.1
66c66
< DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dur.bounceme.net'
---
 > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dur'
69c69
< DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'dur.bounceme.net'
---
 > DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'dur'
root at dur:/etc/mailman#


I was just banging my head against this last night.  Mailman is all 
setup now?


-Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 21:04:36 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:04:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RTFM gate_news
Message-ID: <503BC4C4.60907@gmail.com>

Where is the documentation for mailman gate_news and how is it configured?

I'm running Leafnode on localhost and am using a dovecot-postfix mail 
stack on Ubuntu. How can I wire them together with mailman to export 
usenet messages?

The best info I've found about gate_news is:

http://opensource.apple.com/source/mailman/mailman-117/mailman/cron/gate_news?txt

I'm sure it's on GNU as well, and the usage seems not terribly 
difficult, at least judging the comments in the above code.

Am I just not seeing the manual/tutorial?



thanks,

Thufir

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 27 21:25:17 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:25:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RTFM gate_news
In-Reply-To: <503BC4C4.60907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208271225170375e7485048@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:

>Where is the documentation for mailman gate_news and how is it configured?


gate_news is run periodically (default, every 5 minutes) by cron to
retrieve messages from gatewayed news groups and post them to the
associated mail lists. There is no configuration for gate_news itself.
All the configuration is done via the mailing list. Once you have a
working Mailman web UI, go to a list's admin Mail<->News gateways
Section at a URL like
http://example.com/mailman/admin/LISTNAMR/gateway and read the
"Details for" links for all the settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 27 21:33:30 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:33:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp -> dovecot POP3
In-Reply-To: <503A8C16.3060206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012082712333004689d09d9b2@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:

>I've seen mention that mailman can be used between nntp and e-mail. 
>What I'm looking for is to send nntp messages to e-mail, just one way. 
>I don't need a full gateway such as gmane, just one way is sufficient.
>
>Currently I'm using dovecot-postfix in Ubuntu with leafnode 
>(http://leafnode.sourceforge.net/ )as the nntp server.  What would be 
>involved in directing mailman at leafnode, on localhost, to e-mail a 
>particular newsgroup?


Install Mailman, create a list whose members are the addresses you want
to email newsgroup posts to and for that list set:

nntp_host -> your news server (localhost?)
	
linked_newsgroup -> the name of the newsgroup to gateway from
	
gateway_to_news - > No
	
gateway_to_mail -> Yes

and make sure cron is running Mailman's cron/gate_news.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 21:41:42 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:41:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RTFM gate_news
In-Reply-To: <PC195201208271225170375e7485048@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201208271225170375e7485048@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503BCD76.4010901@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 12:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Thufir wrote:
>
>> Where is the documentation for mailman gate_news and how is it configured?
>
>
> gate_news is run periodically (default, every 5 minutes) by cron to
> retrieve messages from gatewayed news groups and post them to the
> associated mail lists. There is no configuration for gate_news itself.
> All the configuration is done via the mailing list. Once you have a
> working Mailman web UI, go to a list's admin Mail<->News gateways
> Section at a URL like
> http://example.com/mailman/admin/LISTNAMR/gateway and read the
> "Details for" links for all the settings.
>


Ah, that's very informative, thank you!  I thought I would have to setup 
cron, but that part's done already, probably :)

I can browse to http://localhost/ and apache is there, running fine.

However,

http://localhost/mailman/admin/  doesn't bring up anything.  I'm looking 
at the wiki, and not sure how proceed on that.  While I'm using the FQDN 
dur.bounce.net in mm_cfg.py for the url and e-mail host, that FQDN won't 
resolve (is that the correct term?).

I'm just doing everything on localhost.



thanks,

Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 21:44:33 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:44:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp -> dovecot POP3
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012082712333004689d09d9b2@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952012082712333004689d09d9b2@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503BCE21.8010402@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Install Mailman, create a list whose members are the addresses you want
> to email newsgroup posts to and for that list set:

Just to clarify, I'm interested in the other direction of the gateway, 
pulling news to e-mail, not so much the e-mail to news.  That function 
is supported?


-Thufir

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 27 22:10:52 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:10:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp -> dovecot POP3
In-Reply-To: <503BCE21.8010402@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208271310520468a9fc67c8@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:

>On 08/27/2012 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Install Mailman, create a list whose members are the addresses you want
>> to email newsgroup posts to and for that list set:
>
>Just to clarify, I'm interested in the other direction of the gateway, 
>pulling news to e-mail, not so much the e-mail to news.  That function 
>is supported?


That's what I understood and that's what I meant.

If the list is configured to do so, cron/gate_news will pull new posts
from the news group and post them to the Mailman list which will
result in their being emailed to the list member(s).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 27 22:16:57 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:16:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RTFM gate_news
In-Reply-To: <503BCD76.4010901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120827131657037560fe5c30@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:
>
>However,
>
>http://localhost/mailman/admin/  doesn't bring up anything.


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html> (or the relevant
Debian/Ubuntu Mailman docs).


>I'm looking 
>at the wiki, and not sure how proceed on that.  While I'm using the FQDN 
>dur.bounce.net in mm_cfg.py for the url and e-mail host, that FQDN won't 
>resolve (is that the correct term?).
>
>I'm just doing everything on localhost.


You should be able to get to http://localhost/mailman/admin/ if Apache
is configured properly, but any absolute links on those pages will be
http://dur.bounce.net/... links. You can add

127.0.0.1   dur.bounce.net

to /etc/hosts to get it to resolve.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 05:49:06 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:49:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing
	lists
Message-ID: <503C3FB2.6060804@gmail.com>

While I can browse to

http://localhost/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.java.help

and see that there's such a list, I cannot create list from

http://localhost/cgi-bin/mailman/admin

which returns

Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists

whenever I try to create a list.  However, it does work from the CLI:


root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# newlist comp.lang.java.help
Enter the email of the person running the list: hawat.thufir at gmail.com
Initial comp.lang.java.help password:
To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or
equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the
`newaliases' program:

## comp.lang.java.help mailing list
comp.lang.java.help:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post 
comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin 
comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman 
bounces comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman 
confirm comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join 
comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave 
comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner 
comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman 
request comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman 
subscribe comp.lang.java.help"
comp.lang.java.help-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman 
unsubscribe comp.lang.java.help"

Hit enter to notify comp.lang.java.help owner...

root at dur:~#


why won't the web interface accept the same password?  Or, is it that 
the web interface itself, perhaps, isn't authorized.  What's not 
authorized, the password I provided (which works from the CLI) or 
something about how the web interface is setup?




thanks,

Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 05:52:39 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:52:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp -> dovecot POP3
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012082712333004689d09d9b2@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952012082712333004689d09d9b2@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503C4087.1020808@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 12:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Install Mailman, create a list whose members are the addresses you want
> to email newsgroup posts to and for that list set:
>
> nntp_host ->  your news server (localhost?)


I'm using the CLI for now.  where would I find the list configuration 
please?


-Thufir

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 28 05:56:12 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:56:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp -> dovecot POP3
In-Reply-To: <503C4087.1020808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208272056120625af65f9fd@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:
>
>I'm using the CLI for now.  where would I find the list configuration 
>please?


Mailman's

bin/config_list --help

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/z4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 28 06:02:22 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:02:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <503C3FB2.6060804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012082721022200462dad6604@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:

>While I can browse to
>
>http://localhost/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.java.help
>
>and see that there's such a list, I cannot create list from
>
>http://localhost/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
>
>which returns
>
>Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
>
>whenever I try to create a list.  However, it does work from the CLI:


If you follow the "create a new mailing list" link from
<http://localhost/cgi-bin/mailman/admin>, it should take you to a form
at <http://localhost/cgi-bin/mailman/create>. When you submit that
form, you must specify your installation's list creator password in
the last field on the form. This password is set by Mailman's
bin/mmsitepass. See

bin/mmsitepass --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 06:11:40 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:11:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1952012082721022200462dad6604@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952012082721022200462dad6604@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503C44FC.2060505@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 09:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
[...]
> bin/mmsitepass --help
>

Well, don't I feel silly.  I knew about that but didn't use it because I 
figured it was something else.  Pardon about that.

I get:

Error: Illegal list name: comp.lang.java.help.3 at localhost

from the web interface (I only typed in the part before @localhost)


although the CLI seems to handle it fine:

root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# /usr/sbin/list_lists
3 matching mailing lists found:
          Comp.lang.java - [no description available]
     Comp.lang.java.help - [no description available]
                 Mailman - [no description available]
root at dur:~#



I wonder where mailman is picking up the @localhost, because mm_cfg.py 
should only use the FQDN:

root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# grep dur /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dur.bounceme.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'dur.bounceme.net'
root at dur:~#



-Thufir

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 28 06:20:42 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:20:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create
	newmailinglists
In-Reply-To: <503C44FC.2060505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120827212042062530f5685b@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:
>
>I get:
>
>Error: Illegal list name: comp.lang.java.help.3 at localhost
>
>from the web interface (I only typed in the part before @localhost)


Because Mailman doesn't like domains without at least one dot.


>although the CLI seems to handle it fine:
[...]
>I wonder where mailman is picking up the @localhost, because mm_cfg.py 
>should only use the FQDN:


The create CGI gets the domain from the host name in the URL. If you go
to <http://dur.bounceme.net/cgi-bin/mailman/create> it should work. If
you can't go there, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-August/073967.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 06:26:30 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:26:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create
	newmailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC19520120827212042062530f5685b@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520120827212042062530f5685b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503C4876.10507@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 09:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I wonder where mailman is picking up the @localhost, because mm_cfg.py
>> >should only use the FQDN:
>
> The create CGI gets the domain from the host name in the URL. If you go
> to<http://dur.bounceme.net/cgi-bin/mailman/create>  it should work.

Works nicely :)


thanks for all the help.  I'm almost there.


-Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 06:44:03 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe @localhost
Message-ID: <503C4C93.9070808@gmail.com>

I want to subscribe thufir at localhost to a mailing list -- of course 
that's rejected for not being a FQDN.

So I subscribed thufir at dur.bouncme.net.  Presumably I need to configure 
postfix recognize that as localhost?

In terms of mailman, is there a log of what happened.  I don't expect 
the subscription message to make it all the way through, but how do I 
trace it through mailman to see the attempts to send confirmation, and 
what errors were reported, etc.

I suppose this is similar to setting up mailman for an intranet? An 
intranet of one.


thanks,

Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 07:02:02 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 22:02:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty gateway archive
Message-ID: <503C50CA.9080103@gmail.com>

I think, or assume, that mailman is running its cron, but nothing seems 
to be coming through from the NNTP gateway when there have been new 
posts.  In general, how do I troubleshoot the gateway?

the script is there in:

/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news

but are the results logged anywhere, perhaps?

thanks,

Thufir

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 07:05:48 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 22:05:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe @localhost
In-Reply-To: <503C4C93.9070808@gmail.com>
References: <503C4C93.9070808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <503C51AC.80801@gmail.com>

On 08/27/2012 09:44 PM, Thufir wrote:
[...]
> In terms of mailman, is there a log of what happened. I don't expect the
> subscription message to make it all the way through, but how do I trace
> it through mailman to see the attempts to send confirmation, and what
> errors were reported, etc.


Ah, some progress:

root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# grep mailman /var/log/syslog | grep bounce
Aug 27 15:29:20 dur postfix/smtpd[1543]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <hawat.thufir at gmail.com>: Recipient 
address rejected: gmail.com; from=<mailman-bounces at dur.bounceme.net> 
to=<hawat.thufir at gmail.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<dur.bounceme.net>
root at dur:~#


so, that's something which I can fix in postfix, so that my FQDN isn't 
mailed "out" and is just "internal"?



-Thufir

From es at fruitcom.com  Tue Aug 28 09:45:33 2012
From: es at fruitcom.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:45:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members with password
Message-ID: <mailbox-22035-1346139883-797926@pepper>

How do I add_members and allocate a password?

For members who do not wish to subscribe through the web
interface, what is the way to subscribe them so that they
have a password for subsequent login?

Thanks
Eric Smith

From sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 09:56:07 2012
From: sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmVhdHRhIFPDqWJhc3RpZW4=?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:56:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot ->
 user unknown )
In-Reply-To: <20120821183715.GE18093@charite.de>
References: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120821183715.GE18093@charite.de>
Message-ID: <503C7997.9010306@gmail.com>

Thanks you,

Le 21/08/2012 20:37, Ralf Hildebrandt a ?crit :
> * S?batien Andreatta <sebastien.andreatta at gmail.com>:
>>> How to integrate Mailman with postfix without the use of
>>> postfix-to-mailman.py script wich is not officialy supported ?
> Just use aliases.
>
>>> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
>>> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
> That looks OK.
>
>>> mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost,
>>> lists.mydomain.be
> So sending mail to mailman at lists.mydomain.be should work.
> Try that. What's in the log for that?
>
>>> mm_cfg.py
>>>
>>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   ='www.mydomain.be'
>>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'smeagoln.mydomain.be'
> Shouldn't it be lists.mydomain.be ?
>
>>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.be']
> But it's not a virtual domain.
>
>>> So,  how can I do for deliver all mail for test at lists.mydomain.be by
>>> local agent and so, use alias_maps ?
> lists.mydomain.be must be in mydestination.
>
> Try adding:
> lists.mydomain.be local:
> in transport_maps (just to make absolutely sure nothing else gets hold
> of that domain)
>


From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 10:40:48 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 01:40:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot ->
 user unknown )
In-Reply-To: <503C7997.9010306@gmail.com>
References: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120821183715.GE18093@charite.de> <503C7997.9010306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <503C8410.2070702@gmail.com>

On 08/28/2012 12:56 AM, Andreatta S?bastien wrote:
[...]
>> Try adding:
>> lists.mydomain.be local:
>> in transport_maps (just to make absolutely sure nothing else gets hold
>> of that domain)

I seem to still have problems with postfix:

root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# nano /etc/postfix/transport
root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
lists.dur.bounceme.net      mailman:
root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# postfix stop
postfix/postfix-script: stopping the Postfix mail system
root at dur:~# postfix start
postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# telnet localhost 25
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 dur.bounceme.net ESMTP Postfix (Ubuntu)
ehlo foo
250-dur.bounceme.net
250-PIPELINING
250-SIZE 10240000
250-VRFY
250-ETRN
250-STARTTLS
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-8BITMIME
250 DSN
mail from:transport_file_test at dur.bounceme.net
250 2.1.0 Ok
rcpt to:thufir at localhost
451 4.3.0 <thufir at localhost>: Temporary lookup failure
rcpt to:thufir at dur.bounceme.net
451 4.3.0 <thufir at dur.bounceme.net>: Temporary lookup failure
quit
221 2.0.0 Bye
Connection closed by foreign host.
root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
config_directory = /etc/postfix
default_transport = smtp
home_mailbox = Maildir/
inet_interfaces = loopback-only
mailbox_command = /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver -c 
/etc/dovecot/conf.d/01-mail-stack-delivery.conf -m "${EXTENSION}"
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
mydestination = dur, dur.bounceme.net, localhost.bounceme.net, localhost
myhostname = dur.bounceme.net
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = lists.dur.bounceme.net
relay_transport = relay
relayhost =
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
smtp_use_tls = yes
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain, 
reject_unknown_recipient_domain, reject_unauth_pipelining, 
permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_path = private/dovecot-auth
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-mail.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-mail.key
smtpd_tls_mandatory_ciphers = medium
smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols = SSLv3, TLSv1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtpd_use_tls = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
root at dur:~#


Whoops, I think I asked this question in the wrong list!  Any help still 
appreciated, of course.  I'm going to ask this on the postfix mailing 
list, which was my intent; pardon about that.


-Thufir

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Aug 28 11:06:12 2012
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:06:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot ->
 user unknown )
In-Reply-To: <503C8410.2070702@gmail.com>
References: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120821183715.GE18093@charite.de> <503C7997.9010306@gmail.com>
	<503C8410.2070702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120828090612.GV14245@charite.de>

* Thufir <hawat.thufir at gmail.com>:
> On 08/28/2012 12:56 AM, Andreatta S?bastien wrote:
> [...]
> >>Try adding:
> >>lists.mydomain.be local:
> >>in transport_maps (just to make absolutely sure nothing else gets hold
> >>of that domain)
> 
> I seem to still have problems with postfix:
> 
> root at dur:~#
> root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
> root at dur:~#
> root at dur:~# nano /etc/postfix/transport
> root at dur:~#
> root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
> lists.dur.bounceme.net      mailman:

postmap /etc/postfix/transport

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 14:39:05 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 05:39:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] data/aliases is created by mailman? or manually?
Message-ID: <503CBBE9.1040105@gmail.com>

In going through an Ubuntu guide:

"This build of mailman runs as list. It must have permission to read 
/etc/aliases and read and write /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases. Do this 
with these commands:

sudo chown root:list /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
sudo chown root:list /etc/aliases"

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman#Postfix_Configuration

is data/aliases created by mailman?  Or, do I manually create that file? 
  How do I know that the aliases are correct?


see:

http://marc.info/?l=postfix-users&m=134615669604847&w=2


thanks,

Thufir

From bsfinkel at att.net  Tue Aug 28 15:08:51 2012
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:08:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members with password
In-Reply-To: <mailbox-22035-1346139883-797926@pepper>
References: <mailbox-22035-1346139883-797926@pepper>
Message-ID: <503CC2E3.1020404@att.net>

On 8/28/2012 2:45 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
> How do I add_members and allocate a password?
>
> For members who do not wish to subscribe through the web
> interface, what is the way to subscribe them so that they
> have a password for subsequent login?
>
> Thanks
> Eric Smith
When I was managing a Mailman installation, we decided early on to
ignore passwords.  I had many lists where the subscriber base was
taken from our Human Resources Database, and the lists were updated
at least once per day.  We decided that subscribers did not need to know
their list password, and if they did need it, they could go to the list
web page and have it sent to them via e-mail.
--Barry Finkel

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 15:26:24 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 06:26:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local
	recipient table; 
Message-ID: <503CC700.3070609@gmail.com>

Ok, some success:

root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# tail /var/log/mail.log
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/smtpd[8142]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/smtpd[8142]: 42CE518430D: 
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/cleanup[8146]: 42CE518430D: 
message-id=<mailman.1.1346159769.8140.test6 at dur.bounceme.net>
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/qmgr[8134]: 42CE518430D: 
from=<test6-bounces at dur.bounceme.net>, size=2086, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/smtpd[8142]: disconnect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur dovecot: lda(thufir): 
msgid=<mailman.1.1346159769.8140.test6 at dur.bounceme.net>: saved mail to 
INBOX
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/local[8147]: 42CE518430D: 
to=<thufir at dur.bounceme.net>, relay=local, delay=0.58, 
delays=0.1/0/0/0.48, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: 
/usr/lib/dovecot/deliver -c 
/etc/dovecot/conf.d/01-mail-stack-delivery.conf -m "${EXTENSION}")
Aug 28 06:16:11 dur postfix/qmgr[8134]: 42CE518430D: removed
Aug 28 06:16:13 dur postfix/smtp[8149]: CAF4E182913: 
to=<hawat.thufir at gmail.com>, 
relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[209.85.225.26]:25, delay=2.4, 
delays=0.09/0.02/0.93/1.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 
1346159773 ut4si4609983igb.1)
Aug 28 06:16:13 dur postfix/qmgr[8134]: CAF4E182913: removed
root at dur:~#


Message 42CE518430D to thufir at dur.bounceme.net shows up correctly in my 
inbox via dovecot.


However, once I subscribed myself, thufir at dur.bounceme.mail, to the 
test6 group, I got back:

root at dur:~#
root at dur:~# tail /var/log/mail.log
Aug 28 06:23:47 dur postfix/qmgr[9368]: 526E1182913: 
from=<test6-bounces at dur.bounceme.net>, size=1967, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug 28 06:23:47 dur postfix/smtpd[9379]: disconnect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Aug 28 06:23:47 dur dovecot: lda(thufir): 
msgid=<mailman.0.1346160226.9406.test6 at dur.bounceme.net>: saved mail to 
INBOX
Aug 28 06:23:47 dur postfix/local[9384]: 526E1182913: 
to=<thufir at dur.bounceme.net>, relay=local, delay=0.28, 
delays=0.09/0/0/0.19, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: 
/usr/lib/dovecot/deliver -c 
/etc/dovecot/conf.d/01-mail-stack-delivery.conf -m "${EXTENSION}")
Aug 28 06:23:47 dur postfix/qmgr[9368]: 526E1182913: removed
Aug 28 06:24:10 dur dovecot: pop3-login: Login: user=<thufir>, 
method=PLAIN, rip=127.0.0.1, lip=127.0.0.1, mpid=9411, TLS
Aug 28 06:24:10 dur dovecot: pop3(thufir): Disconnected: Logged out 
top=0/0, retr=1/2110, del=0/3, size=6300
Aug 28 06:24:27 dur postfix/smtpd[9379]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Aug 28 06:24:27 dur postfix/smtpd[9379]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <test6 at dur.bounceme.net>: Recipient 
address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<thufir at localhost> to=<test6 at dur.bounceme.net> proto=ESMTP 
helo=<dur.bounceme.net>
Aug 28 06:24:35 dur postfix/smtpd[9379]: disconnect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]
root at dur:~#


Is this maybe a problem with postfix configuration?



thanks,

Thufir

From fmouse at fmp.com  Tue Aug 28 17:23:50 2012
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:23:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SpamAssassin
Message-ID: <1346167430.2616.12.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

I'm putting in a new server and would like to integrate SpamAssassin
into Mailman (2.1.15) according to the directions previously posted
online at http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/, which
I updated at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030589
and have been using successfully on another server. Unfortunately, the
original article is no longer online.  Does anyone know if there's a
mirror or archive of it somewhere?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |          --- The Roadie
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Aug 28 17:24:27 2012
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:24:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SpamAssassin
Message-ID: <1346167467.2616.13.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

I'm putting in a new server and would like to integrate SpamAssassin
into Mailman (2.1.15) according to the directions previously posted
online at http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/, which
I updated at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030589
and have been using successfully on another server. Unfortunately, the
original article is no longer online.  Does anyone know if there's a
mirror or archive of it somewhere?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190          |          --- The Roadie
http://www.fmp.com    |



From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Tue Aug 28 18:03:53 2012
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:03:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SpamAssassin
In-Reply-To: <1346167467.2616.13.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
References: <1346167467.2616.13.camel@pudina.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <503CEBE9.8080605@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Lindsay Haisley


On 2012-08-28 17:24, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> I'm putting in a new server and would like to integrate SpamAssassin
> into Mailman (2.1.15) according to the directions previously posted
> online at http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/, which
> I updated at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030589
> and have been using successfully on another server. Unfortunately, the
> original article is no longer online.  Does anyone know if there's a
> mirror or archive of it somewhere?
> 

Waybackmachine is your friend here.
Be aware that pictures and multimedia files normally are not saved there.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100323051444/http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From hawat.thufir at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 18:17:49 2012
From: hawat.thufir at gmail.com (Thufir)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:17:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	local recipient table; 
In-Reply-To: <503CC700.3070609@gmail.com>
References: <503CC700.3070609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <503CEF2D.3090705@gmail.com>

I'm just not sure whether the problem rests with the transport or 
alias_maps and alias_database -- alias_maps points to an empty file.

Pardon the repost of similar data.  Here's a slightly edited version, 
minor correction in naming conventions:


     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# grep alias /etc/postfix/main.cf
     alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
     alias_database = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
     #alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# postmap -v /etc/postfix/transport
     postmap: name_mask: all
     postmap: inet_addr_local: configured 2 IPv4 addresses
     postmap: inet_addr_local: configured 2 IPv6 addresses
     postmap: open hash /etc/postfix/transport
     postmap: Compiled against Berkeley DB: 5.1.25?
     postmap: Run-time linked against Berkeley DB: 5.1.25?
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
     lists.dur.bounceme.net      mailman:
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# cat /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# ll /var/lib/mailman/data/
     total 44
     drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 Aug 28 08:48 ./
     drwxrwsr-x 8 root list  4096 Aug 27 19:58 ../
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list     0 Aug 28 04:36 aliases
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 12288 Aug 28 04:36 aliases.db
     -rw-r----- 1 root list    41 Aug 27 21:04 creator.pw
     -rw-rw-r-- 1 root list    10 Aug 27 19:58 last_mailman_version
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 14100 Oct 19  2011 sitelist.cfg
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# ll /etc/aliases
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1852 Aug 27 21:18 /etc/aliases
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# cat /etc/aliases
     usenet: root

     ## mailman mailing list
     mailman:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
     mailman-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
     mailman-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
     mailman-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
     mailman-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
     mailman-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
     mailman-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
     mailman-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
     mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe 
mailman"
     mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
mailman"


     ## gmane.mail.mailman.user.1 mailing list
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-admin: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-bounces: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-confirm: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-join: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-leave: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-owner: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-request: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-subscribe: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-unsubscribe: 
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"


     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# grep mailman /etc/postfix/master.cf
     mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
       flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# newaliases
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# postfix stop;postfix start
     postfix/postfix-script: stopping the Postfix mail system
     postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# tail /var/log/mail.log
     Aug 28 08:58:28 dur postfix/master[13190]: terminating on signal 15
     Aug 28 08:58:28 dur postfix/postfix-script[13304]: starting the 
Postfix mail system
     Aug 28 08:58:28 dur postfix/master[13305]: daemon started -- 
version 2.9.1, configuration /etc/postfix
     Aug 28 08:58:29 dur postfix/postfix-script[13314]: stopping the 
Postfix mail system
     Aug 28 08:58:29 dur postfix/master[13305]: terminating on signal 15
     Aug 28 08:58:30 dur postfix/postfix-script[13419]: starting the 
Postfix mail system
     Aug 28 08:58:30 dur postfix/master[13420]: daemon started -- 
version 2.9.1, configuration /etc/postfix
     Aug 28 08:59:09 dur postfix/smtpd[13435]: connect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]
     Aug 28 08:59:10 dur postfix/smtpd[13435]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT 
from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <test6 at dur.bounceme.net>: Recipient 
address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<thufir at dur.bounceme.net> to=<test6 at dur.bounceme.net> proto=ESMTP 
helo=<dur.bounceme.net>
     Aug 28 08:59:13 dur postfix/smtpd[13435]: disconnect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~#
     root at dur:~# postconf -n
     alias_database = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
     alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
     append_dot_mydomain = no
     biff = no
     broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
     config_directory = /etc/postfix
     default_transport = smtp
     home_mailbox = Maildir/
     inet_interfaces = loopback-only
     mailbox_command = /usr/lib/dovecot/deliver -c 
/etc/dovecot/conf.d/01-mail-stack-delivery.conf -m "${EXTENSION}"
     mailbox_size_limit = 0
     mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
     mydestination = $myhostname localhost.$mydomain localhost $mydomain
     myhostname = dur.bounceme.net
     mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
     readme_directory = no
     recipient_delimiter = +
     relay_domains = lists.example.com
     relay_transport = relay
     relayhost =
     smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
     smtp_use_tls = yes
     smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
     smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain, 
reject_unknown_recipient_domain, reject_unauth_pipelining, 
permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination
     smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
     smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
     smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
     smtpd_sasl_path = private/dovecot-auth
     smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
     smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
     smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
     smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-mail.pem
     smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-mail.key
     smtpd_tls_mandatory_ciphers = medium
     smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols = SSLv3, TLSv1
     smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
     smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
     smtpd_use_tls = yes
     tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
     transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
     root at dur:~#

From pwmerritt at weirdwater.org  Tue Aug 28 23:35:00 2012
From: pwmerritt at weirdwater.org (=?utf-8?Q?Peter_Merritt?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:35:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
Message-ID: <zarafa.503d3984.0ef0.0c2385523c2e918f@server.weirdwater.org>

My mailman migration is going ok except its failing at update, version 2.1.5 to version 2.1.14 debian woody to Ubuntu precise

?
Output of update command?

?
Updating mailing list: scholars

Traceback (most recent call last):

? File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 771, in <module>

? ? errors = main()

? File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 661, in main

? ? errors = errors + dolist(listname)

? File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 192, in dolist

? ? mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__

? ? self.Load()

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 676, in Load

? ? self.CheckVersion(dict)

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 715, in CheckVersion

? ? if self.data_version >= mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__

? ? raise AttributeError, name

AttributeError: data_version

?
Any ideas, while I research,

Thanks in Advance.?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? Peter

?
partsmaps at weirdwater.org? <- Do not Use

?

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 02:09:31 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:09:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members with password
In-Reply-To: <mailbox-22035-1346139883-797926@pepper>
Message-ID: <PC1952012082817093106878d074f8e@MSAPIRO>

Eric Smith wrote:

>How do I add_members and allocate a password?
>
>For members who do not wish to subscribe through the web
>interface, what is the way to subscribe them so that they
>have a password for subsequent login?


Subscribing by email allows specification of a password.

Every list member has a password regardless of how they were
subscribed. If they were subscribed by a method that doesn't allow
specifying a password or if they just didn't specify one, a random
password is assigned, and if the list sends a welcome message, the
welcome message contains the password and a link to the user's options
page where it can be changed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 02:32:46 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:32:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe @localhost
In-Reply-To: <503C4C93.9070808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520120828173246037566abaf25@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:
>
>In terms of mailman, is there a log of what happened.


logs/subscribe
logs/smtp

and possibly

logs/smtp-failure

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 02:41:50 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty gateway archive
In-Reply-To: <503C50CA.9080103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208281741500921c460584b@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:
>
>the script is there in:
>
>/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
>
>but are the results logged anywhere, perhaps?


/var/log/cron will tell you if it's being run?

Is mailman's crontab installed in /var/spool/cron/mailman or somewhere
in /etc/cron.d? Note that the format of these crontabs is different.
Don't make changes unless you know what you're doing.

See

man crontab
man 5 crontab

cron/gate_news normally logs nothing, but if there is any exception or
other output, it will be mailed to the address specified in a MAILTO=
setting in the crontab or if none, to the user it ran under which is
normally the 'mailman' list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 02:58:03 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:58:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix and virtual user ( relay dovecot ->
 user unknown )
In-Reply-To: <503C8410.2070702@gmail.com>
References: <CAAcujtibd=e+K0Ymk0JrMaK-0oN3yi53PPxBsDg=zK5=AHGtLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAcujthsWS3f6vFbGJ37_9QNr4ZzAK7Wpf5o28Gjdqqb_2FkrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120821183715.GE18093@charite.de>
	<503C7997.9010306@gmail.com> <503C8410.2070702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <503D691B.4010207@msapiro.net>

On 8/28/2012 1:40 AM, Thufir wrote:
> 
> I seem to still have problems with postfix:


Please do not hijack other user's threads for unrelated posts.


> root at dur:~#
> root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
> root at dur:~#
> root at dur:~# nano /etc/postfix/transport
> root at dur:~#
> root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
> lists.dur.bounceme.net      mailman:


How is the 'mailman' transport defined in master.cf? Undoubtedly it is
the "officially not supported by the GNU Mailman project", 3rd party
postfix_to_mailman.py.

If so, please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

I will help with postfix_to_mailman.py to the extent that I can, but it
frankly annoys me greatly that Debian/Ubuntu encourages its use, but
distributes a package which confuses users into trying to combine
postfix_to_mailman.py and aliases without apparently having adequate
documentation or support.


[...]
> root at dur:~# postconf -n
> alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
[...]
> Whoops, I think I asked this question in the wrong list!  Any help still
> appreciated, of course.  I'm going to ask this on the postfix mailing
> list, which was my intent; pardon about that.


They won't have a clue about postfix_to_mailman.py. Try Ubuntu's Mailman
support if there is any or maybe Debian, But first learn the differences
between postfix_to_mailman.py delivery and delivery to Mailman via
aliases, and decide which you want to use and use only one method.

And in case you haven't guessed, if you want help from this list, we can
much better help you if you do it this way
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 03:04:34 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:04:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] data/aliases is created by mailman? or manually?
In-Reply-To: <503CBBE9.1040105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952012082818043408289c3e649e@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:

>In going through an Ubuntu guide:


As I said in another reply, see <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.


[...]
>is data/aliases created by mailman?  Or, do I manually create that file?


If you put

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py, Mailman creates/updates aliases and aliases.db. As long
as the timestamp on aliases.db is equal or more recent than that on
aliases, you can probably assume that Postfix's postalias command did
the right thing in updating aliases.db from aliases.


>  How do I know that the aliases are correct?


Look at the aliases file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 03:23:23 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:23:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	localrecipient table; 
In-Reply-To: <503CC700.3070609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208281823230843cae499a2@MSAPIRO>

Thufir wrote:
>
>Is this maybe a problem with postfix configuration?



Make sure you have

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py and after doing so, run Mailman's bin/genaliases to ensure
that you've created aliases for all pre-existing lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pwmerritt at weirdwater.org  Wed Aug 29 03:25:26 2012
From: pwmerritt at weirdwater.org (=?utf-8?Q?Peter_Merritt?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:25:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <zarafa.503d3984.0ef0.0c2385523c2e918f@server.weirdwater.org>
References: <zarafa.503d3984.0ef0.0c2385523c2e918f@server.weirdwater.org>
Message-ID: <zarafa.503d6f86.4961.333c7bd846cd4fd9@server.weirdwater.org>

?

Ok to add to this a dumpdb show that no config.pck has a data_version. In fact some config.pck are missing for some lists.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Peter
?
-----Original message-----

My mailman migration is going ok except its failing at update, version 2.1.5 to version 2.1.14 debian woody to Ubuntu precise

?
Output of update command?

?
Updating mailing list: scholars

Traceback (most recent call last):

? File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 771, in <module>

? ? errors = main()

? File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 661, in main

? ? errors = errors + dolist(listname)

? File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 192, in dolist

? ? mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__

? ? self.Load()

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 676, in Load

? ? self.CheckVersion(dict)

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 715, in CheckVersion

? ? if self.data_version >= mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:

? File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__

? ? raise AttributeError, name

AttributeError: data_version

?
Any ideas, while I research,

Thanks in Advance.?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? Peter

?
partsmaps at weirdwater.org? <- Do not Use

?
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pwmerritt%40weirdwater.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 03:29:38 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:29:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	inlocal recipient table; 
In-Reply-To: <503CEF2D.3090705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208281829380140efea7532@MSAPIRO>

Thufir <hawat.thufir at gmail.com>
   Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:17:49 -0700
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>I'm just not sure whether the problem rests with the transport or 
>alias_maps and alias_database -- alias_maps points to an empty file.


If you are using aliases, there should be no transport for Mailman. You
want the default Postfix local transport, not postfix_to_mailman.py
and no dovecot LDA.


>Pardon the repost of similar data.  Here's a slightly edited version, 
>minor correction in naming conventions:
>
>
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# grep alias /etc/postfix/main.cf
>     alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>     alias_database = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>     #alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# postmap -v /etc/postfix/transport
>     postmap: name_mask: all
>     postmap: inet_addr_local: configured 2 IPv4 addresses
>     postmap: inet_addr_local: configured 2 IPv6 addresses
>     postmap: open hash /etc/postfix/transport
>     postmap: Compiled against Berkeley DB: 5.1.25?
>     postmap: Run-time linked against Berkeley DB: 5.1.25?
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# cat /etc/postfix/transport
>     lists.dur.bounceme.net      mailman:
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# cat /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# ll /var/lib/mailman/data/
>     total 44
>     drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 Aug 28 08:48 ./
>     drwxrwsr-x 8 root list  4096 Aug 27 19:58 ../
>     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list     0 Aug 28 04:36 aliases
>     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 12288 Aug 28 04:36 aliases.db


See my reply to your OP in this thread.


>     -rw-r----- 1 root list    41 Aug 27 21:04 creator.pw
>     -rw-rw-r-- 1 root list    10 Aug 27 19:58 last_mailman_version
>     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 14100 Oct 19  2011 sitelist.cfg
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# ll /etc/aliases
>     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1852 Aug 27 21:18 /etc/aliases
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# cat /etc/aliases
>     usenet: root
>
>     ## mailman mailing list
>     mailman:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>     mailman-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>     mailman-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>     mailman-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>     mailman-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>     mailman-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>     mailman-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>     mailman-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>     mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe 
>mailman"
>     mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
>mailman"
>
>
>     ## gmane.mail.mailman.user.1 mailing list
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-admin: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-bounces: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-confirm: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-join: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-leave: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-owner: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-request: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-subscribe: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"
>     gmane.mail.mailman.user.1-unsubscribe: 
>"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe gmane.mail.mailman.user.1"



These aliases should not be in /etc/aliases. If you configure things as
I've said, they will be in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.

>
>     root at dur:~#
>     root at dur:~# grep mailman /etc/postfix/master.cf
>     mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
>       flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py


Get rid of this. It is incompatible with alias delivery.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 03:51:48 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <zarafa.503d6f86.4961.333c7bd846cd4fd9@server.weirdwater.org>
References: <zarafa.503d3984.0ef0.0c2385523c2e918f@server.weirdwater.org>
	<zarafa.503d6f86.4961.333c7bd846cd4fd9@server.weirdwater.org>
Message-ID: <503D75B4.2080702@msapiro.net>

On 8/28/2012 6:25 PM, Peter Merritt wrote:
> 
> 
> Ok to add to this a dumpdb show that no config.pck has a
> data_version. In fact some config.pck are missing for some lists.


Mailman 2.1.5's Mailman/MailList.py had code to test and set if
necessary a list's data_version attribute every time the list was
instantiated.

I think you must be looking in the wrong directory. If there is no
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck (ignoring for the moment the possibility of a
Mailman 2.0.x config.db), the list doesn't exist for Mailman 2.1.x

Do you have any mods in your 2.1.5?

If you think your config.pck's are otherwise OK, you could always do

#!/bin/sh
file=`mktemp`
echo mlist.data_version = 0 > $file
for list in `/path/to/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`; do
  /path/to/mailman/bin/config_list -i $file $list
done
rm $file


It doesn't matter what you set data_version to as long as it's less than 98.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pwmerritt at weirdwater.org  Wed Aug 29 04:19:43 2012
From: pwmerritt at weirdwater.org (=?utf-8?Q?Peter_Merritt?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:19:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <503D75B4.2080702@msapiro.net>
References: <503D75B4.2080702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <zarafa.503d7c3f.55ee.07535ec52142fe9c@server.weirdwater.org>

Mark thank you for your help, unfortunately as I investigate further there is only one config.pck left an its corrupt. all the other lists have not config.pck. Is there anyway to recover a list of? members email addresses? 

????????????????????????????????????? Peter



?
-----Original message-----
From:Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent:Tue 08-28-2012 06:51 pm
Subject:Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
To:Peter Merritt <pwmerritt at weirdwater.org>; 
CC:mailman-users at python.org; 
On 8/28/2012 6:25 PM, Peter Merritt wrote:
> 
> 
> Ok to add to this a dumpdb show that no config.pck has a
> data_version. In fact some config.pck are missing for some lists.


Mailman 2.1.5's Mailman/MailList.py had code to test and set if
necessary a list's data_version attribute every time the list was
instantiated.

I think you must be looking in the wrong directory. If there is no
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck (ignoring for the moment the possibility of a
Mailman 2.0.x config.db), the list doesn't exist for Mailman 2.1.x

Do you have any mods in your 2.1.5?

If you think your config.pck's are otherwise OK, you could always do

#!/bin/sh
file=`mktemp`
echo mlist.data_version = 0 > $file
for list in `/path/to/mailman/bin/list_lists --bare`; do
 ?/path/to/mailman/bin/config_list -i $file $list
done
rm $file


It doesn't matter what you set data_version to as long as it's less than 98.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 29 04:50:35 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:50:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <zarafa.503d7c3f.55ee.07535ec52142fe9c@server.weirdwater.org>
References: <503D75B4.2080702@msapiro.net>
	<zarafa.503d7c3f.55ee.07535ec52142fe9c@server.weirdwater.org>
Message-ID: <503D837B.6080809@msapiro.net>

On 8/28/2012 7:19 PM, Peter Merritt wrote:
> Mark thank you for your help, unfortunately as I investigate further
> there is only one config.pck left an its corrupt. all the other lists
> have not config.pck. Is there anyway to recover a list of  members
> email addresses?


Restore from a good backup.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pwmerritt at weirdwater.org  Wed Aug 29 04:52:10 2012
From: pwmerritt at weirdwater.org (=?utf-8?Q?Peter_Merritt?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:52:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
In-Reply-To: <503D837B.6080809@msapiro.net>
References: <503D837B.6080809@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <zarafa.503d83da.5de9.079c5a673b75917b@server.weirdwater.org>

?

Yep, thats what I was afraid you would say. unfortunately I am supposed to perform a miracle, there is no back up.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Peter
?
-----Original message-----
From:Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent:Tue 08-28-2012 07:50 pm
Subject:Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration to new server
To:Peter Merritt <pwmerritt at weirdwater.org>; 
CC:mailman-users at python.org; 
On 8/28/2012 7:19 PM, Peter Merritt wrote:
> Mark thank you for your help, unfortunately as I investigate further
> there is only one config.pck left an its corrupt. all the other lists
> have not config.pck. Is there anyway to recover a list of ?members
> email addresses?


Restore from a good backup.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan


From peter.d at kitchencharisma.com  Wed Aug 29 08:04:47 2012
From: peter.d at kitchencharisma.com (Peter D Sparkes)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:04:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
Message-ID: <503DB0FF.4010601@kitchencharisma.com>

Hi

I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.

Mailman Requirements::

  * Collect email addresses
  *   Send out newsletters
  * No subscriber to have access to the list
  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.

 From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these requirements.

Help please

Peter


From blevi.linux at gmail.com  Tue Aug 28 10:11:22 2012
From: blevi.linux at gmail.com (Birta Levente)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:11:22 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird characters in private archive
Message-ID: <503C7D2A.6060206@gmail.com>

Hi all

I use mailman 2.1.12 with centos 6.3.
I have a list with romanian default language. If the archive is public I 
have no problems, but if it's private, not shows the specific romanian 
characters.
Someone can help me out with this?

Thanks

Levi


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Aug 29 17:01:51 2012
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 16:01:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <503DB0FF.4010601@kitchencharisma.com>
References: <503DB0FF.4010601@kitchencharisma.com>
Message-ID: <20120829150151.GM5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.
> 
> Mailman Requirements::
> 
>  * Collect email addresses
>  *   Send out newsletters
>  * No subscriber to have access to the list
>  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
>  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.
> 
> From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these requirements.

Did you see the wiki?

    http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685


-- 
"A traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend"
    -- J. R. R. Tolkien

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 30 02:51:55 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 17:51:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird characters in private archive
In-Reply-To: <503C7D2A.6060206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201208291751550640c694bcb7@MSAPIRO>

Birta Levente wrote:
>
>I use mailman 2.1.12 with centos 6.3.
>I have a list with romanian default language. If the archive is public I 
>have no problems, but if it's private, not shows the specific romanian 
>characters.
>Someone can help me out with this?


The archive consists of static pages in Mailman's
archives/private/LISTNAME/yyyy-Mmmmm/ directories. There is one page
per archived message with a name like nnnnnn.html where nnnnnn is the
archived message number. The actual message text in these pages for a
Romanian language list should be encoded in Mailman's character set
for Romanian which is iso-8859-2.

Are you saying that if you access a page from the same web browser via
a URL like http://www.example.com/pipermail/mylist/nnnn.html, it looks
as it should, but if you access the same page via
http://www.example.com/mailman/private/mylist/nnnn.html (you can do
this even if the archive is public), it doesn't display the Romanian
characters.

If that's what you are saying, I don't know why this would be except it
could have something to do with the web server adding a Content-Type:
header with an incompatible charset setting (as in Apache's
AddDefaultCharset setting).

If you are looking at different messages from the same or different
lists, try accessing the same message both ways as above. If you see a
difference when you do that, it has something to do with the way the
private CGI serves the page versus serving it as a static html file,
and we can investigate further. If you don't see a difference when you
do that, the issue is probably that different messages archived at
different times or for different lists had a different character set
in the archive files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 30 05:20:51 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:20:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty gateway archive
In-Reply-To: <PC195201208281741500921c460584b@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201208281741500921c460584b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503EDC13.5000405@msapiro.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> cron/gate_news normally logs nothing, but if there is any exception or
> other output, it will be mailed to the address specified in a MAILTO=
> setting in the crontab or if none, to the user it ran under which is
> normally the 'mailman' list.


Actually, that is not correct. Mailman has a logs/fromusenet log an
cron/gate_news logs various errors in that log as well as logging the
usenet message numbers of messages posted to the mail list or the fact
that there were no new messages. I.e., cron/gate_news logs quite a lot.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From blevi.linux at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 09:35:44 2012
From: blevi.linux at gmail.com (Birta Levente)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:35:44 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird characters in private archive
In-Reply-To: <PC195201208291751550640c694bcb7@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201208291751550640c694bcb7@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <503F17D0.4090601@gmail.com>

On 30/08/2012 03:51, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Birta Levente wrote:
>>
>> I use mailman 2.1.12 with centos 6.3.
>> I have a list with romanian default language. If the archive is public I
>> have no problems, but if it's private, not shows the specific romanian
>> characters.
>> Someone can help me out with this?
>
>
> The archive consists of static pages in Mailman's
> archives/private/LISTNAME/yyyy-Mmmmm/ directories. There is one page
> per archived message with a name like nnnnnn.html where nnnnnn is the
> archived message number. The actual message text in these pages for a
> Romanian language list should be encoded in Mailman's character set
> for Romanian which is iso-8859-2.
>
> Are you saying that if you access a page from the same web browser via
> a URL like http://www.example.com/pipermail/mylist/nnnn.html, it looks
> as it should, but if you access the same page via
> http://www.example.com/mailman/private/mylist/nnnn.html (you can do
> this even if the archive is public), it doesn't display the Romanian
> characters.
>
> If that's what you are saying, I don't know why this would be except it
> could have something to do with the web server adding a Content-Type:
> header with an incompatible charset setting (as in Apache's
> AddDefaultCharset setting).
>
> If you are looking at different messages from the same or different
> lists, try accessing the same message both ways as above. If you see a
> difference when you do that, it has something to do with the way the
> private CGI serves the page versus serving it as a static html file,
> and we can investigate further. If you don't see a difference when you
> do that, the issue is probably that different messages archived at
> different times or for different lists had a different character set
> in the archive files.
>
I just don't describe very well my problem ... sorry

It's about the built in texts ... not the messages.

When accessing the archive in english looks like:

The Week Of Monday 27 August 2012:	[ Thread ] [ Subject ] [ Author ] [ 
Date ]

So, the word WEEK translated in romanian (or I think any non-english 
language ... I tried in hungarian) show me this ? char instead the 
specific language chars.

Of course, when I change the language of the list I run: 
...mailman/bin/arch listname

And yes, accessing in the public way it's ok ... but the private it's not.

		Thanks
		Levi


From peter.d at kitchencharisma.com  Thu Aug 30 11:13:31 2012
From: peter.d at kitchencharisma.com (Peter D Sparkes)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:13:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <20120829150151.GM5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <503DB0FF.4010601@kitchencharisma.com>
	<20120829150151.GM5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <503F2EBB.4040107@kitchencharisma.com>

No I did not, thank you Adam

Peter

On 29/08/2012 16:01, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.
>>
>> Mailman Requirements::
>>
>>   * Collect email addresses
>>   *   Send out newsletters
>>   * No subscriber to have access to the list
>>   * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
>>   * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.
>>
>>  From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these requirements.
> Did you see the wiki?
>
>      http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685
>
>


From es at fruitcom.com  Thu Aug 30 20:23:22 2012
From: es at fruitcom.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:23:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configure lists with text file or programatically.
Message-ID: <20120830182321.GA19250@trustfood.org>

I have created a dozen or so lists and I want to change the
settings of all of them in a similar way.

This file seems to hold the config data;
/var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck.last

But it is not friendly. Is there a way to programatically or 
with a text editor apply settings?

Thanks for any advice.

-- 
Best regards,
Eric Smith
Mobile: 00 31 6 455 09313 - Tel Wageningen: +31 317 728888

From es at fruitcom.com  Thu Aug 30 21:48:13 2012
From: es at fruitcom.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:48:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configure lists with text file or
	programatically -> in a stream
In-Reply-To: <20120830182321.GA19250@trustfood.org>
References: <20120830182321.GA19250@trustfood.org>
Message-ID: <mailbox-14323-1346355956-646593@pepper>

This seems to be a nice solution;

$ sudo config_list -o /dev/stdout <listname> |sed 's/advertised = .*/advertised = False/' -e 's/foo/bar/  |sudo config_list -i /dev/stdin <listname>



Eric Smith wrote on Thu-30-Aug 12  8:23PM
> I have created a dozen or so lists and I want to change the
> settings of all of them in a similar way.
> 
> This file seems to hold the config data;
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck.last
> 
> But it is not friendly. Is there a way to programatically or 
> with a text editor apply settings?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 31 04:46:53 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:46:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configure lists with text file
	orprogramatically -> in a stream
In-Reply-To: <mailbox-14323-1346355956-646593@pepper>
Message-ID: <PC1952012083019465309215678d98e@MSAPIRO>

Eric Smith wrote:

>This seems to be a nice solution;
>
>$ sudo config_list -o /dev/stdout <listname> |sed 's/advertised = .*/advertised = False/' -e 's/foo/bar/  |sudo config_list -i /dev/stdin <listname>


This is unduly complicated. The input to config_list need only contain
those things you want to change so you could just do

cat << EOF | sudo config_list -i /dev/stdin <listname>
advertised = False
bar
EOF


Also, see <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_attributes>, a script
which processes things like

set_attributes "advertised = False" "foo = bar" listname

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 31 06:08:57 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:08:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird characters in private archive
In-Reply-To: <503F17D0.4090601@gmail.com>
References: <PC195201208291751550640c694bcb7@MSAPIRO>
	<503F17D0.4090601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <504038D9.5060407@msapiro.net>

On 8/30/2012 12:35 AM, Birta Levente wrote:

> I just don't describe very well my problem ... sorry
> 
> It's about the built in texts ... not the messages.
> 
> When accessing the archive in english looks like:
> 
> The Week Of Monday 27 August 2012:    [ Thread ] [ Subject ] [ Author ]
> [ Date ]
> 
> So, the word WEEK translated in romanian (or I think any non-english
> language ... I tried in hungarian) show me this ? char instead the
> specific language chars.


This particular message string is coded in the archiver in English as

"The Week Of Monday %(day)i %(month)s %(year)i"

The Romanian translation of this string in the distributed message
catalog is

"S?pt?m?na ce ?ncepe Luni, %(day)i %(month)s %(year)i"

Except that the non-ascii characters are encoded as iso-8859-2 as follows

character  hex encoding
   ?          E3
   ?          E2
   ?          EE

If you look at the raw file index.html in Mailman's
archives/private/LISTNAME/ directory, or you look at the source of the
page served in your browser, this is what you should see. The source of
the page should look identical whether it is served statically via a
'pipermail' URL or dynamically via the private CGI as it is the contents
of the archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html file in either case.

If it is rendered differently in the browser depending on how it is
served, the only reason I can think of for this would be if the web
server is adding its own Content-Type: header with a charset other than
iso-8859-2 in one case and not the other overriding the

<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">

element that should be in the page itself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From debra.currie at sydney.edu.au  Fri Aug 31 02:38:35 2012
From: debra.currie at sydney.edu.au (Debra Currie)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:38:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <20120829150151.GM5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <503DB0FF.4010601@kitchencharisma.com>
	<20120829150151.GM5644@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E77494CEB5B0714F868B0ED277365D1F127925F8@EX-MBX-PRO-01.mcs.usyd.edu.au>

Thank you, I have been through this exercise recently and whilst I didn't find this particular information in time, putting all the 'newsletter' related guidance together in one place is a great idea and very valuable

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam McGreggor [mailto:adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012 1:02 AM
To: Peter D Sparkes
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.
> 
> Mailman Requirements::
> 
>  * Collect email addresses
>  *   Send out newsletters
>  * No subscriber to have access to the list
>  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
>  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.
> 
> From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these requirements.

Did you see the wiki?

    http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685


-- 
"A traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend"
    -- J. R. R. Tolkien


From Philip.Colmer at dante.net  Fri Aug 31 12:08:39 2012
From: Philip.Colmer at dante.net (Philip Colmer)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot get DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
	to work
Message-ID: <289C9DCE04C460498334BC8D9141CA7104579827CD@dexch.win.dante.org.uk>

Hi

We're building a new Mailman server to replace an aging system. In order to run it alongside the live system, the new server currently has a different hostname but the intention is that we will eventually CNAME the old name over to the new one so that there will be continuity of service.

At the moment, moderator emails from the new system are using the FQDN of the new system. I have edited /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py so that DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are explicitly set to the FQDN of the *old* server, but moderator emails are not reflecting this change in configuration.

The new server is running Red Hat 6.1 and Mailman was installed from the RHEL repo.

Thank you for any advice or suggestions.

Regards

Philip


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 31 20:22:59 2012
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:22:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot get DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
	DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOSTto work
In-Reply-To: <289C9DCE04C460498334BC8D9141CA7104579827CD@dexch.win.dante.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1952012083111225906712b2baa5a@MSAPIRO>

Philip Colmer wrote:
>
>We're building a new Mailman server to replace an aging system. In order to run it alongside the live system, the new server currently has a different hostname but the intention is that we will eventually CNAME the old name over to the new one so that there will be continuity of service.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uYA9>.


>At the moment, moderator emails from the new system are using the FQDN of the new system. I have edited /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py so that DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are explicitly set to the FQDN of the *old* server, but moderator emails are not reflecting this change in configuration.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan