From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar  1 16:28:49 2013
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 10:28:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problem
In-Reply-To: <20130301050006.BFA6D1FD32@dap002.dap.localnet>
References: <20130301050006.BFA6D1FD32@dap002.dap.localnet>
Message-ID: <5130C931.8010308@bellsouth.net>

I have been having trouble with bounce processing. Bounced messages are being sent to the list admin (not uncaught bounces). However, I don't seem to get rid of those bad addresses from the list. When I ran a bounce report I got the error below so I am guessing that this may be related to the problem.

Importing get_bounce_info...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 302, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 270, in main
    __import__(module)
ImportError: No module named get_bounce_info
Null message body; hope that's ok

What may have caused that module to disappear and could this be why bad addresses are not being removed?

Thanks.


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20130301/56fa47e4/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  1 22:05:35 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:05:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problem
In-Reply-To: <5130C931.8010308@bellsouth.net>
References: <20130301050006.BFA6D1FD32@dap002.dap.localnet>
	<5130C931.8010308@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <5131181F.4070001@msapiro.net>

On 3/1/2013 7:28 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> I have been having trouble with bounce processing. Bounced messages are being sent to the list admin (not uncaught bounces).


Please send me a complete, raw copy of one such bounce as received by
the list owner.

Note that I'm guessing based on recent off-list correspondence that
possibly your Yahoo smarthost is now rewriting the envelope sender to
your address from listname-bounces at ..., but this is only a guess.


> However, I don't seem to get rid of those bad addresses from the list.


Are you trying to remove them manually or just waiting for bounce
processing to do it. If the bounces go to you and not Mailman, Mailman
will never record then or do anything about it.


> When I ran a bounce report I got the error below so I am guessing that this may be related to the problem.


It's not related, but


> Importing get_bounce_info...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 302, in <module>
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 270, in main
>     __import__(module)
> ImportError: No module named get_bounce_info


Did you download <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/get_bounce_info.py> (or
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py>) and save
it as /usr/lib/mailman/bin/get_bounce_info.py?


> Null message body; hope that's ok


What does the above mean?


> What may have caused that module to disappear and could this be why bad addresses are not being removed?


It's not a Mailman module. It's one of my utility scripts. If you
actually downloaded it and saved it in the appropriate place, I don't
know why it's gone now. If you downloaded it some time ago, perhaps it
was saved in a different location.

No, this has nothing to do with bounces not being processed to remove
bouncing addresses. That is apparently because bounces are being
returned to you and mot to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar  2 12:42:24 2013
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 06:42:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problem
In-Reply-To: <5131181F.4070001@msapiro.net>
References: <20130301050006.BFA6D1FD32@dap002.dap.localnet>
	<5130C931.8010308@bellsouth.net> <5131181F.4070001@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5131E5A0.8070704@bellsouth.net>

I figured out what is happening and there is no help for it. The seeming
inconsistency is because when I send mail to the list, I authenticate as
the account owner so, the headers are not rewritten. When other members
send messages to the list it still authenticates with my account, thus
the headers are rewritten. That explains all the issues including bounce
processing and from headers.

I'm looking for an alternative relay and may have found a solution
(albeit in Europe). I'm still researching it.

Thanks for everyone's help, especially Mark.

On 3/1/2013 4:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 3/1/2013 7:28 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I have been having trouble with bounce processing. Bounced messages are being sent to the list admin (not uncaught bounces).
>
> Please send me a complete, raw copy of one such bounce as received by
> the list owner.
>
> Note that I'm guessing based on recent off-list correspondence that
> possibly your Yahoo smarthost is now rewriting the envelope sender to
> your address from listname-bounces at ..., but this is only a guess.
>
>
>> However, I don't seem to get rid of those bad addresses from the list.
>
> Are you trying to remove them manually or just waiting for bounce
> processing to do it. If the bounces go to you and not Mailman, Mailman
> will never record then or do anything about it.
>
>
>> When I ran a bounce report I got the error below so I am guessing that this may be related to the problem.
>
> It's not related, but
>
>
>> Importing get_bounce_info...
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 302, in <module>
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 270, in main
>>     __import__(module)
>> ImportError: No module named get_bounce_info
>
> Did you download <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/get_bounce_info.py> (or
> <http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py>) and save
> it as /usr/lib/mailman/bin/get_bounce_info.py?
>
>
>> Null message body; hope that's ok
>
> What does the above mean?
>
>
>> What may have caused that module to disappear and could this be why bad addresses are not being removed?
>
> It's not a Mailman module. It's one of my utility scripts. If you
> actually downloaded it and saved it in the appropriate place, I don't
> know why it's gone now. If you downloaded it some time ago, perhaps it
> was saved in a different location.
>
> No, this has nothing to do with bounces not being processed to remove
> bouncing addresses. That is apparently because bounces are being
> returned to you and mot to Mailman.
>


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 261 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20130302/2161caca/attachment.pgp>

From dave at fiteyes.com  Sat Mar  2 21:46:01 2013
From: dave at fiteyes.com (David)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 15:46:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to implement two custom features?
Message-ID: <CAH=dxU4JOi=TfU+4PRiOF6qdEDGFtVFH8ZaHA5P6sC=dCQZGHQ@mail.gmail.com>

We need to implement two custom features for moderator functionality. The
moderator would do these things before approving a message.

1 - ability to change the subject so we can start a new thread (when the
user forgets to change the subject to an appropriate one themselves).

2 - ability to edit within a post to remove objectionable material from an
otherwise allowable post.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Our options range from making small
changes ourselves to hiring a professional to write custom code. Thanks.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  3 05:58:30 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 20:58:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to implement two custom features?
In-Reply-To: <CAH=dxU4JOi=TfU+4PRiOF6qdEDGFtVFH8ZaHA5P6sC=dCQZGHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013030220583007812907612b@MSAPIRO>

David <dave at fiteyes.com> wrote:

>The
>moderator would do these things before approving a message.
>
>1 - ability to change the subject so we can start a new thread (when the
>user forgets to change the subject to an appropriate one themselves).
>
>2 - ability to edit within a post to remove objectionable material from an
>otherwise allowable post.


See <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/557995>. I'm not sure how
much it would need to be reworked for current Mailman 2.1.15, but it's
a start.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sun Mar  3 22:49:10 2013
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:49:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Mailman lists
Message-ID: <CDB8B353-73D5-44B6-A424-D308FF97ADC2@kreme.com>

# ./list_lists
3 matching mailing lists found:
  Mailman - [no description available]
  Family1 - [no description available]
  Mailman - [no description available]

Why are there two Mailman lists and do I need to be concerned?

Also, since I am here, I can't find the change files for Mailman 2.1 (I have 2.1.12 and I think 2.1.15 is current).

-- 
Try to realize it's all within yourself/No one else can make you change


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  4 01:10:39 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:10:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Mailman lists
In-Reply-To: <CDB8B353-73D5-44B6-A424-D308FF97ADC2@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303031610390015a899ec36@MSAPIRO>

LuKreme wrote:

># ./list_lists
>3 matching mailing lists found:
>  Mailman - [no description available]
>  Family1 - [no description available]
>  Mailman - [no description available]
>
>Why are there two Mailman lists and do I need to be concerned?


what do you get from

#!/bin/bash
for list in `ls /path/to/mailman/lists`; do
   echo $list
   /path/to/mailman/bin/dumpdb /path/to/mailman/lists/$list/config.pck \
     | grep real_name
done

for that matter, what do you get from

ls -la /path/to/mailman/lists


>Also, since I am here, I can't find the change files for Mailman 2.1 (I have 2.1.12 and I think 2.1.15 is current).


See the NEWS file in the distribution tarball or
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/NEWS>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin at cpcnw.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 13:47:40 2013
From: admin at cpcnw.co.uk (Graham Bentley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 12:47:40 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Character Encoding?
Message-ID: <5d91ee7fd35a82e11f1c4767f7162bab.squirrel@webmail.plus.net>


Hi All,

Just occasionally I am getting ? instead of ' in mailman
digests. Actually it could be the opposite of ` - but I
am not sure (cant seem to find that char?)

Any adice / suggestions greatfully rcvd!

Graham


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  4 16:40:42 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 07:40:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Character Encoding?
In-Reply-To: <5d91ee7fd35a82e11f1c4767f7162bab.squirrel@webmail.plus.net>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303040740420359b0722591@MSAPIRO>

Graham Bentley wrote:
>
>Just occasionally I am getting ? instead of ' in mailman
>digests. Actually it could be the opposite of ` - but I
>am not sure (cant seem to find that char?)


This has been discussed many times on this list. See, e.g.,
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-March/071320.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Mar  4 17:12:12 2013
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 10:12:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Character Encoding?
In-Reply-To: <5d91ee7fd35a82e11f1c4767f7162bab.squirrel@webmail.plus.net>
References: <5d91ee7fd35a82e11f1c4767f7162bab.squirrel@webmail.plus.net>
Message-ID: <1362413532.44905.12.camel@pudina.fmp.com>

On Mon, 2013-03-04 at 12:47 +0000, Graham Bentley wrote:
> Just occasionally I am getting ? instead of ' in mailman
> digests. Actually it could be the opposite of ` - but I
> am not sure (cant seem to find that char?)
> 
> Any adice / suggestions greatfully rcvd!
> 
There are (at least) a couple of different apostrophes which may or may
not be visbily rendered by a mail program, depending on the encoding.  I
believe UTF8 should pick up all of them, although I'm not sure.  MUAs
often render characters which they can't grok as "?", so my guess is
that this is primarily a MUA problem, not a Mailman problem.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services |  to solve it." - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190          |        
http://www.fmp.com    |


From ycompanys at gmail.com  Mon Mar  4 22:14:44 2013
From: ycompanys at gmail.com (Yosem Companys)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 13:14:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too Many
	Digests
Message-ID: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm one of the moderators of the Stanford University Program on Liberation
Technology at http://liberationtechnology.stanford.edu/.

I was wondering whether someone on this list could help me.  I'm
experiencing a problem with Mailman's digest option where, no matter what I
do, Mailman is sending too many digests daily.

I have configured the options Mailman gives me as follows:

   - Can list members choose to receive list traffic bunched in digests?
   Yes.
   - Which delivery mode is the default for new users? Regular.
   - When receiving digests, which format is default? MIME.
   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 0.
   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
   reached? No.
   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Daily.
   - Should Mailman start a new digest volume? No.
   - Should Mailman send the next digest right now, if it is not empty? No.

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what it is.  If
anyone on this list can help me, I will be very grateful.

Thanks,

Yosem

From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Tue Mar  5 14:46:50 2013
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 13:46:50 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too Many
 Digests
In-Reply-To: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.wtg68cc3g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 21:14:44 -0000, Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com>  
wrote:

>    - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 0.

I'm not sure that zero has any special meaning there - just that any one  
message will always cause it to send out a digest immediately. I'd try a  
large number in there and set 'daily' back to yes.

= Malcolm.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  5 15:18:37 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:18:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too
	ManyDigests
In-Reply-To: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303050618370546433a4847@MSAPIRO>

Yosem Companys wrote:
>
>Mailman is sending too many digests daily.
>
>I have configured the options Mailman gives me as follows:
>
>   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 0.


This is the major problem. 0 does not mean unlimited. It means a digest
will be sent with every post because any post makes a digest >= 0.

Set this to some reasonable size.


>   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
>   reached? No.


If you thought 0 was unlimited, how did you think a digest would ever
be produced if not daily and not on size?


>   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Daily.


This does not mean send a digest daily. That's the previous setting.
This means how often should the volume number be incremented and the
issue number reset to 1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar  5 15:39:59 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 23:39:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too
	Many	Digests
In-Reply-To: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <877gllkj0g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Yosem Companys writes:
 > Hi all,
 > 
 > I'm one of the moderators of the Stanford University Program on Liberation
 > Technology at http://liberationtechnology.stanford.edu/.

You've come to the right place.  Mailman is a liberating technology!

 > I was wondering whether someone on this list could help me.  I'm
 > experiencing a problem with Mailman's digest option where, no matter what I
 > do, Mailman is sending too many digests daily.
 > 
 > I have configured the options Mailman gives me as follows:
 > 
 >    - Can list members choose to receive list traffic bunched in digests?
 >    Yes.
 >    - Which delivery mode is the default for new users? Regular.
 >    - When receiving digests, which format is default? MIME.
 >    - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 0.

I don't have time to look at the code, but I think this is your
problem.  I suspect that this needs to be positive (0 does mean
infinite in many contexts, but it's not documented to mean that here).

If you really want the digest to get (almost) arbitrarily large before
being sent, you could set it to 1000000 (meaning 1GB).  But I think
most users' mail programs will choke on that.  I would say 1000 is
about as large as I'd want it to go.

 >    - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
 >    reached? No.
 >    - How often should a new digest volume be started? Daily.

The digest volume has nothing to do with the number of digests sent.
It's like the volume of a journal.  If you only have one digest per
day, you're going to have 365 volumes per year, and one issue per
volume.  I would guess that's not what you want.

 >    - Should Mailman start a new digest volume? No.
 >    - Should Mailman send the next digest right now, if it is not empty? No.


From farokh at mcfsoftware.com  Tue Mar  5 14:42:10 2013
From: farokh at mcfsoftware.com (Farokh Irani)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:42:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too Many
 Digests
In-Reply-To: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5135F632.2050609@mcfsoftware.com>

Here's your problem. You need to set it to something higher than 0. I 
use 100 for mine.

Yosem Companys wrote:
>     - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 0.


Farokh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCF Software...simply dependably engineered
For all your computer and networking needs including hosting solutions
for every need.
Phone: 845-735-0210
Cell: 914-262-1594


From ycompanys at gmail.com  Tue Mar  5 21:53:24 2013
From: ycompanys at gmail.com (Yosem Companys)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 12:53:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too Many
	Digests
In-Reply-To: <877gllkj0g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CANhci9Hpp4DSR15EPS_BGXs_gY15v2BtrjSdBTnmwAL5g_d4nQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<877gllkj0g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CANhci9FzUA1yXU7OsG=Y0t3p1DmUVMD94PG-DY1S6utwq1o6Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to everyone who responded. To avoid cluttering your inbox, I'll
respond to all of your questions in this one email.

I originally had the drone list options set to the following:

   - When receiving digests, which format is default? MIME.
   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 300.
   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?
   Yes.
   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Daily.

That seemed to work for a while, but all of a sudden this week all the
digest subscribers started complaining that they were receiving 1 digest
per message.

So I went about changing the options.  The first thing I thought was that
the threshold was too low, so I increased it.  Since I had read on the web
that zero meant unlimited, I did that.  I now realize that the
documentation on those sites must be wrong, as it is correct on the "List
Administration Manual," to which one of you drew my attention:
https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node19.html.  In any
case, this explains why when I would send a message that only said TEST in
the subject, a new digest was created.

Once the logical thing did not work, I wrote to ask for your help.  But, as
I had subscribers dropping out like flies, I played around with the options
until I found a configuration that stopped the problem.  This was achieved
with the following:

   - When receiving digests, which format is default? Plain.
   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 300.
   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?
   No.
   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Weekly.

Now I realize that what probably fixed the problem was the combination of
"Plain" and "300."  Given that, I will keep that threshold, change the
options to the following, and cross my fingers:

   - When receiving digests, which format is default? Plain.
   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 300.
   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?
   Yes.
   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Monthly.

I assume 300 is more than enough for plain text.

Thanks all for your help! :)

Yosem



On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:
> Yosem Companys writes:
>  > Hi all,
>  >
>  > I'm one of the moderators of the Stanford University Program on
Liberation
>  > Technology at http://liberationtechnology.stanford.edu/.
>
> You've come to the right place.  Mailman is a liberating technology!
>
>  > I was wondering whether someone on this list could help me.  I'm
>  > experiencing a problem with Mailman's digest option where, no matter
what I
>  > do, Mailman is sending too many digests daily.
>  >
>  > I have configured the options Mailman gives me as follows:
>  >
>  >    - Can list members choose to receive list traffic bunched in
digests?
>  >    Yes.
>  >    - Which delivery mode is the default for new users? Regular.
>  >    - When receiving digests, which format is default? MIME.
>  >    - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 0.
>
> I don't have time to look at the code, but I think this is your
> problem.  I suspect that this needs to be positive (0 does mean
> infinite in many contexts, but it's not documented to mean that here).
>
> If you really want the digest to get (almost) arbitrarily large before
> being sent, you could set it to 1000000 (meaning 1GB).  But I think
> most users' mail programs will choke on that.  I would say 1000 is
> about as large as I'd want it to go.
>
>  >    - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
>  >    reached? No.
>  >    - How often should a new digest volume be started? Daily.
>
> The digest volume has nothing to do with the number of digests sent.
> It's like the volume of a journal.  If you only have one digest per
> day, you're going to have 365 volumes per year, and one issue per
> volume.  I would guess that's not what you want.
>
>  >    - Should Mailman start a new digest volume? No.
>  >    - Should Mailman send the next digest right now, if it is not
empty? No.
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  5 23:38:13 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:38:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Mailman's Digest Option Sending Too
	ManyDigests
In-Reply-To: <CANhci9FzUA1yXU7OsG=Y0t3p1DmUVMD94PG-DY1S6utwq1o6Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303051438130234fb4c36f7@MSAPIRO>

Yosem Companys wrote:
>
>   - When receiving digests, which format is default? MIME.
>   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 300.
>   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?
>   Yes.


This is all good.


>   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Daily.


This is probably not what you want.


>That seemed to work for a while, but all of a sudden this week all the
>digest subscribers started complaining that they were receiving 1 digest
>per message.


If the settings were unchanged, there was some other issue. Were the
same messages repeated in the subsequent digests? What was logged in
Mailman's error log?


>So I went about changing the options.  The first thing I thought was that
>the threshold was too low, so I increased it.  Since I had read on the web
>that zero meant unlimited, I did that.  I now realize that the
>documentation on those sites must be wrong, as it is correct on the "List
>Administration Manual," to which one of you drew my attention:
>https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node19.html.  In any
>case, this explains why when I would send a message that only said TEST in
>the subject, a new digest was created.


Actually, the manual you cite is wrong too. I'll fix it.


>Once the logical thing did not work, I wrote to ask for your help.  But, as
>I had subscribers dropping out like flies, I played around with the options
>until I found a configuration that stopped the problem.  This was achieved
>with the following:
>
>   - When receiving digests, which format is default? Plain.


This only affects the default for new subscribers and has no bearing on
digest frequency anyway.


>   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 300.
>   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?
>   No.


This may make a difference if the issue is that cron/senddigests is
being run many times a day instead of just once.


>   - How often should a new digest volume be started? Weekly.
>
>Now I realize that what probably fixed the problem was the combination of
>"Plain" and "300."


As I said, plain has nothing to do with it. The issue is either
cron/senddigests run too frequently in which case "Should a digest be
dispatched daily" will make the difference, or it is some other
underlying problem which has bee fixed by the site admins in the mean
time.


>Given that, I will keep that threshold, change the
>options to the following, and cross my fingers:
>
>   - When receiving digests, which format is default? Plain.
>   - How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out? 300.
>   - Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?
>   Yes.


If this starts the problem again, the issue is someone changed the
frequency with which cron/senddigests is run by Mailman's crontab. If
not, the problem was something else outside your list settyings, and
someone else fixed it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cts at thomasstover.com  Wed Mar  6 00:04:21 2013
From: cts at thomasstover.com (C. Thomas Stover)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:04:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp solution
Message-ID: <20130305170421.3d8675d3@stover-dev.homs.com>

Hi list. I think gmane is wonderful, but I'm looking to recreate that
(the nntp server portion that is) functionality in some way I can
control for lists. For example, a client's private dev list. All the
mail server software doesn't seem to have been maintained in some time.

1) Any recommendations for linux based nntp server software specifically
for use with mailmain on a private (ie not usenet) configuration?

2) Anyone know of a hosting provider of such a service? (yes there are
many usenet providers out there, that is not what I'm talking about)

thanks

-- 
C. Thomas Stover
www.thomasstover.com


From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Mar  6 09:15:36 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:15:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp solution
In-Reply-To: <20130305170421.3d8675d3@stover-dev.homs.com>
References: <20130305170421.3d8675d3@stover-dev.homs.com>
Message-ID: <5136FB28.8060501@free.fr>

Le 06/03/2013 00:04, C. Thomas Stover a ?crit :

> 1) Any recommendations for linux based nntp server software specifically
> for use with mailmain on a private (ie not usenet) configuration?

INN

>
> 2) Anyone know of a hosting provider of such a service? (yes there are
> many usenet providers out there, that is not what I'm talking about)

I manage it myself on my server. INN is pretty hard to manage thougth, 
but interface very nicely with mailman

jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From barry at list.org  Wed Mar  6 22:01:26 2013
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:01:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp solution
In-Reply-To: <5136FB28.8060501@free.fr>
References: <20130305170421.3d8675d3@stover-dev.homs.com>
	<5136FB28.8060501@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20130306160126.40b67a20@limelight.wooz.org>

I love Gmane too, and would love for NNTP access to be pretty much an
out-of-the-box available feature for Mailman 3.  We've talked about it over in
mailman-developers, and if you're interested in working on this, please join
us over there.

On Mar 06, 2013, at 09:15 AM, jdd wrote:

>I manage it myself on my server. INN is pretty hard to manage thougth, but
>interface very nicely with mailman

Are there any documents available on the web for the best way to do this?

Cheers,
-Barry

From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Mar  6 23:31:55 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 23:31:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp solution
In-Reply-To: <20130306160126.40b67a20@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <20130305170421.3d8675d3@stover-dev.homs.com>
	<5136FB28.8060501@free.fr>
	<20130306160126.40b67a20@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <5137C3DB.2080902@free.fr>

Le 06/03/2013 22:01, Barry Warsaw a ?crit :
> I love Gmane too, and would love for NNTP access to be pretty much an
> out-of-the-box available feature for Mailman 3.  We've talked about it over in
> mailman-developers, and if you're interested in working on this, please join
> us over there.
>

sorry, I'm not a developper :-( - anyway I have no time free

> On Mar 06, 2013, at 09:15 AM, jdd wrote:
>
>> I manage it myself on my server. INN is pretty hard to manage thougth, but
>> interface very nicely with mailman
>
> Are there any documents available on the web for the best way to do this?


there is very little to do. I somewhat documented it bit for my own 
purpose and in french :-(

http://dodin.org/wordpress/category/mini-serveur-web/

anyway you just have to install INN and configure the relevent mailman 
infos in the admin pannel

jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From pyz at brama.com  Fri Mar  8 03:51:33 2013
From: pyz at brama.com (Max Pyziur)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:51:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>


Greetings,

We received the following while sending out a newsletter/notification to a 
6,000+ email list:

<<< 451 4.3.0 try again. ac8si27848234obc.211 - gsmtp
Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is 
unsupported.  Please ... while talking to aspmx.l.google.com

This reads like a configuration issue on the those businesses and 
educational institutions who rely on Google mail servers.

Is there a way for the sender (us) to be whitelisted, or is this matter 
handled at the receivers' end?

Much thanks,

Max Pyziur
pyz at brama.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  8 06:29:56 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:29:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
Message-ID: <51397754.20206@msapiro.net>

On 3/7/2013 6:51 PM, Max Pyziur wrote:
> 
> We received the following while sending out a newsletter/notification to
> a 6,000+ email list:
> 
> <<< 451 4.3.0 try again. ac8si27848234obc.211 - gsmtp
> Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is
> unsupported.  Please ... while talking to aspmx.l.google.com
> 
> This reads like a configuration issue on the those businesses and
> educational institutions who rely on Google mail servers.


It's hard to say, but it seems that you have list members in multiple
domains all served by the same google mail MX, and google doesn't like
receiving multiple recipient domains in a single SMTP transaction.


> Is there a way for the sender (us) to be whitelisted, or is this matter
> handled at the receivers' end?


I don't know about whitelisting, but if you set

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1

in mm_cfg.py you will avoid the issue by never sending to more than one
recipient in a single SMTP transaction. And if you do that, you might as
well VERP everything by putting

VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

in mm_cfg.py as there will be no additional penalty for doing so.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar  8 07:59:08 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:59:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <51397754.20206@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
	<51397754.20206@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <877gliidhf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > It's hard to say, but it seems that you have list members in multiple
 > domains all served by the same google mail MX, and google doesn't like
 > receiving multiple recipient domains in a single SMTP transaction.

Other way around, I think.  The Google MX in question seems to be
Max's smarthost.  I don't think any MTAs are so "smart"[1] as to try
to collect MXs for all the domains they're sending to, and then send
to multiple domains via any MX that serves multiple domains.

 > I don't know about whitelisting, but if you set
 > 
 > SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1

This will still do the trick.

Footnotes: 
[1]  Yes, I know about qmail.  Not even djb ...!



From brennan at columbia.edu  Fri Mar  8 16:06:31 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 10:06:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
Message-ID: <0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>


Max Pyziur <pyz at brama.com> wrote:
>
> We received the following while sending out a newsletter/notification to
> a 6,000+ email list:
>
> <<< 451 4.3.0 try again. ac8si27848234obc.211 - gsmtp
> Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is
> unsupported.  Please ... while talking to aspmx.l.google.com
>
> This reads like a configuration issue on the those businesses and
> educational institutions who rely on Google mail servers.
>
> Is there a way for the sender (us) to be whitelisted, or is this matter
> handled at the receivers' end?


I reported this a few months ago, as a Google Apps for Edu customer, and 
Google refuses to fix it. I spent a couple of weeks back and forth with 
several people, and I got beyond the first line helpdesk. None of them 
could give me a good explanation, but they confirmed it is not considered a 
bug, it was done deliberately.

It means that if you send to two domains, both hosted at Google, they will 
accept only the first domain. To spell it out:

rcpt to:<name at columbia.edu>
250 2.1.5 OK k17si2328403qct.207 - gsmtp
rcpt to:<name at barnard.edu>
451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction ...

The lucky domain named first gets their messages right away, and the others 
have to wait until you run the queue.

Joseph Brennan
Manager, Email and Systems Applications
Columbia University Information Technology







From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  8 19:37:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 10:37:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
	<0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <513A2FD7.5010006@msapiro.net>

On 3/8/2013 7:06 AM, Joseph Brennan wrote:
> 
> I reported this a few months ago, as a Google Apps for Edu customer,


I am curious. As a Google Apps for Edu customer using Google servers to
relay outgoing mail, do you see the From: header and envelope sender
rewriting I report at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-February/074748.html>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Mar  9 05:02:18 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:02:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
	<0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <87txolgr05.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Joseph Brennan writes:

 > I reported this a few months ago, as a Google Apps for Edu customer, and 
 > Google refuses to fix it. I spent a couple of weeks back and forth with 
 > several people, and I got beyond the first line helpdesk. None of them 
 > could give me a good explanation,

I bet they think it's an anti-spam measure.  None of the big services
likes to talk much about that.

 > but they confirmed it is not considered a bug, it was done
 > deliberately.

Can you confirm that this is happening at your outgoing MTA (ie, the
first Google MX you encounter when submitting as a Google customer)?

I'm just guessing, but in practice is this issue restricted to mailing
lists and other software that automatically mails to several users?
Did they perhaps say "you should be using the submission protocol
(port 587)"?

The reason I ask is that surely academic users regularly send mail
personally to recipients at multiple domains.  Some users surely have
personal networks that involve multiple Google-hosted domains, and
they would find their mail *very* unreliable if they were experiencing
this issue.  I don't see any way an institution could use such a
service, or that Google could afford to not fix it.  "Neither snow
... stays swift completion" and all that.

On the other hand, AFAIK queueing is rarely implemented in clients:
they just hand a message text and a list of addresses to the MTA,
which then decides which addresses to transfer via which MXes.  The
only way I can see this working at all well in the face of the issue
we're discussing is that "personal" clients are subject to different
authorization procedures from others.  One way to accomplish that is
if personal clients are using Submission to submit messages instead of
SMTP.  Section 9 of RFC 4409 gives specific support to having
different security policies for SMTP and Submission.

Programmatic submission typically uses SMTP.

From brennan at columbia.edu  Sat Mar  9 14:32:59 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 08:32:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <513A2FD7.5010006@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
	<0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
	<513A2FD7.5010006@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <ECBF4615C9B2A1F2C04378C4@[10.0.1.5]>

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> I am curious. As a Google Apps for Edu customer using Google servers to
> relay outgoing mail, do you see the From: header and envelope sender
> rewriting I report at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-February/074748.html
> >?


The Mailman host uses localhost as its smtp server. No problem!

The problem described there is relevant to small organizations that do
not have their own infrastructure.


Joseph Brennan
Manager, Email and Systems Applications
Columbia University Information Technology



From brennan at columbia.edu  Sat Mar  9 14:53:09 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 08:53:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <87txolgr05.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
	<0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
	<87txolgr05.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <B4056268079EC1438468850E@[10.0.1.5]>


"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> I bet they think it's an anti-spam measure.  None of the big services
> likes to talk much about that.

That's what frontline helpdesk told me, but no one could explain how
it reduces spam. It beats me why, say, 6 recipients at one domain is
less spammy than 6 recipients at two domains. The reverse might even
even be true, since spammers seem to sort by domain not by mx server.


>  > but they confirmed it is not considered a bug, it was done
>  > deliberately.
>
> Can you confirm that this is happening at your outgoing MTA (ie, the
> first Google MX you encounter when submitting as a Google customer)?

We run our own smtp servers. They determine where each user's mail
goes. Some users are on Google Apps, so we re-send their mail to
Google's MX address. That's when the fun begins.

What I demonstrated is what happens when any host anywhere connects
to Google's MX address and tries to send to addresses at two domains
both hosted by Google. These are the hosts:

$ host -t mx gmail.com
gmail.com mail is handled by 5 gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
gmail.com mail is handled by 30 alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
gmail.com mail is handled by 10 alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
gmail.com mail is handled by 40 alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
gmail.com mail is handled by 20 alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.



> I'm just guessing, but in practice is this issue restricted to mailing
> lists and other software that automatically mails to several users?
> Did they perhaps say "you should be using the submission protocol
> (port 587)"

No, it was just a non-Google host trying to send mail to two addresses
hosted on Google. That's all it takes to get that response.


> The reason I ask is that surely academic users regularly send mail
> personally to recipients at multiple domains.

Of course! I used columbia.edu and barnard.edu as an example because
the two schools are very closely affiliated. We first noticed this when
an undergrad club president wanted to know why the members at one school
got their mail right away and the others were delayed about 20 minutes.
The answer is more or less "because Google is weird".



Joseph Brennan
Manager, Email and Systems Applications
Columbia University Information Technology





From jaw171 at pitt.edu  Fri Mar  8 17:31:08 2013
From: jaw171 at pitt.edu (Jeff White)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:31:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members continue to receive individual posts
Message-ID: <513A124C.9090702@pitt.edu>

On 2.1.14 I have a list where multiple mebers are in digest mode but 
continue to get individual posts.  I tried creating a new digest volume, 
setting the member to normal mode then back to digest, and removing then 
re-adding members.  No change, the problem continues. No other lists 
have this problem.  Mailman is not logging any errors regarding this list.

-- 
Jeff White - GNU+Linux Systems Administrator
University of Pittsburgh - CSSD


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  9 18:25:28 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 09:25:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members continue to receive individual
	posts
In-Reply-To: <513A124C.9090702@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC19932013030909252801877907e6d7@MSAPIRO>

Jeff White wrote:

>On 2.1.14 I have a list where multiple mebers are in digest mode but 
>continue to get individual posts.


Do they also get digests?

Do the individual messages even come from Mailman? I.e. are they
perhaps direct Ccs of replies to their own posts? The headers of the
individual messages will tell you if they came from Mailman.

Are the users subscribed at more than 1 address, 1 of which is
non-digest?

Is there another list of which the users are non-digest members
subscribed to this list or in this list's regular_include_lists?

If nothing else, you can temporarily set Non-digest options ->
personalize to Yes and add

Message sent to %(user_delivered_to)s

to msg_footer to help narrow the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Mar  9 19:25:43 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 03:25:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google mail servers reply "Multiple destination
 domains per transaction is unsupported "
In-Reply-To: <B4056268079EC1438468850E@[10.0.1.5]>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1303072147350.11515@brama.com>
	<0D6B78257CB39DEF8D2940FE@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
	<87txolgr05.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<B4056268079EC1438468850E@[10.0.1.5]>
Message-ID: <87ip50h1lk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Joseph Brennan writes:
 > "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
 > 
 > > I bet they think it's an anti-spam measure.  None of the big services
 > > likes to talk much about that.
 > 
 > That's what frontline helpdesk told me, but no one could explain how
 > it reduces spam.

Rich man's graylisting, is my guess.  Many spammers never come back
for the remaining domains, I bet.

 > It beats me why, say, 6 recipients at one domain is less spammy
 > than 6 recipients at two domains.

It isn't.  3 recips at one of two domains is less spammy than 6 recips
at both domains, though!

 > We run our own smtp servers. They determine where each user's mail
 > goes. Some users are on Google Apps, so we re-send their mail to
 > Google's MX address. That's when the fun begins.
 > 
 > What I demonstrated is what happens when any host anywhere connects
 > to Google's MX address and tries to send to addresses at two domains
 > both hosted by Google.

But I don't understand why a host would do that in the course of
ordinary mail processing, unless it is using Google's MX as a
smarthost.  Are you really buying anything by

(1) Looking up the MXes for all recips
(2) Grouping by MX
(3) Batching to each MX in the list

?

Smarthost is a special case, because the assumption is that the sender
doesn't know how to route, and all outgoing mail goes through the
smarthost.  But the smarthost case is what the submission protocol is
designed to address (and it requires authentication).


From jaw171 at pitt.edu  Mon Mar 11 16:26:45 2013
From: jaw171 at pitt.edu (Jeff White)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:26:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members continue to receive individual
	posts
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013030909252801877907e6d7@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013030909252801877907e6d7@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <513DF7B5.4060809@pitt.edu>

I figured out what the problem was:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558274

I corrected the documentation on my mailman install but I think the 
better fix is to change the code as the patch attached to the bug report 
does.  It doesn't make sense to simple check if greater than.  When set 
to 0 or very low it will always be true and a digest of a single message 
is sent out for every message.

Jeff White - GNU+Linux Systems Administrator
University of Pittsburgh - CSSD

On 03/09/2013 12:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jeff White wrote:
>
>> On 2.1.14 I have a list where multiple mebers are in digest mode but
>> continue to get individual posts.
>
> Do they also get digests?
>
> Do the individual messages even come from Mailman? I.e. are they
> perhaps direct Ccs of replies to their own posts? The headers of the
> individual messages will tell you if they came from Mailman.
>
> Are the users subscribed at more than 1 address, 1 of which is
> non-digest?
>
> Is there another list of which the users are non-digest members
> subscribed to this list or in this list's regular_include_lists?
>
> If nothing else, you can temporarily set Non-digest options ->
> personalize to Yes and add
>
> Message sent to %(user_delivered_to)s
>
> to msg_footer to help narrow the problem.
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 11 18:09:58 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:09:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members continue to receive individual
	posts
In-Reply-To: <513DF7B5.4060809@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303111009580765d3af8b37@MSAPIRO>

Jeff White wrote:

>I figured out what the problem was:
>
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558274
>
>I corrected the documentation on my mailman install but I think the 
>better fix is to change the code as the patch attached to the bug report 
>does.


This fix has been committed for Mailman 2.1.16 and the online
documentation at <http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node19.html> and
mirrors has been updated to reflect that.

See the comment thread in the above referenced bug report for more
detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tucsonandrei at gmail.com  Mon Mar 11 17:47:36 2013
From: tucsonandrei at gmail.com (- Andrei -)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:47:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
Message-ID: <CAJ8bDbD8fCSg6H+YPEpcte5ZHfMctxEXQ1V-YrLNinOfNDGcFw@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to replace sender with name of of the mailing list, but
keep senders email in reply-to intact? I would like members to receive
email with From: Mailing List Name, but if somebody replies to the
email then the email would go to the original sender of the message
(and not to the list).

Thanks!



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 11 19:01:14 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:01:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8bDbD8fCSg6H+YPEpcte5ZHfMctxEXQ1V-YrLNinOfNDGcFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013031111011401562691ecaa@MSAPIRO>

Andrei wrote:

>Is it possible to replace sender with name of of the mailing list, but
>keep senders email in reply-to intact? I would like members to receive
>email with From: Mailing List Name, but if somebody replies to the
>email then the email would go to the original sender of the message
>(and not to the list).


This would require a custom handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> to
rewrite the From: and add/replace/augment a Reply-to:

It can't be done with standard configuration settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tucsonandrei at gmail.com  Mon Mar 11 19:11:41 2013
From: tucsonandrei at gmail.com (- Andrei -)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:11:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013031111011401562691ecaa@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAJ8bDbD8fCSg6H+YPEpcte5ZHfMctxEXQ1V-YrLNinOfNDGcFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013031111011401562691ecaa@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAJ8bDbADWYS+38QOHU+kVHQ1jm8YTokucoVqok0N44+UqxMerw@mail.gmail.com>

OK, thanks. Does anybody has a custom handler like that and is willing
to share? I have no idea how to do this.



On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Andrei wrote:
>
>>Is it possible to replace sender with name of of the mailing list, but
>>keep senders email in reply-to intact? I would like members to receive
>>email with From: Mailing List Name, but if somebody replies to the
>>email then the email would go to the original sender of the message
>>(and not to the list).
>
>
> This would require a custom handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> to
> rewrite the From: and add/replace/augment a Reply-to:
>
> It can't be done with standard configuration settings.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From brennan at columbia.edu  Mon Mar 11 19:52:13 2013
From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:52:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8bDbADWYS+38QOHU+kVHQ1jm8YTokucoVqok0N44+UqxMerw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ8bDbD8fCSg6H+YPEpcte5ZHfMctxEXQ1V-YrLNinOfNDGcFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013031111011401562691ecaa@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8bDbADWYS+38QOHU+kVHQ1jm8YTokucoVqok0N44+UqxMerw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <90E9687390B98FA0924D7D1E@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>


 - Andrei - <tucsonandrei at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like members to receive email with From: Mailing List Name


How will people know who wrote each message?

Joseph Brennan
Columbia University Information Technology



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 11 20:35:21 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8bDbADWYS+38QOHU+kVHQ1jm8YTokucoVqok0N44+UqxMerw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303111235210843fa3fe960@MSAPIRO>

Andrei wrote:

>OK, thanks. Does anybody has a custom handler like that and is willing
>to share? I have no idea how to do this.


Something like this
--------------------------------------------------------------------
from email.Utils import formataddr, getaddresses, parseaddr

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    orig_from = parseaddr(msg.get('from'))
    orig_rt = msg.get_all('reply-to')
    del msg['from']
    msg['From'] = formataddr((mlist.description, mlist.GetListEmail()))
    del msg['reply-to']
    if orig_rt:
        rt_list = getaddresses(orig_rt)
        rt_addr = [x[1] for x in rt_list]
        if orig_from[1] not in rt_addr:
            rt_list += [orig_from]
    else:
        rt_list = [orig_from]
    msg['Reply-To'] = ', '.join([formataddr(x) for x in rt_list])
---------------------------------------------------------------------

should do it. This will add the From: address to any existing Reply-To:
if it isn't already there or create a Reply-To: if there wasn't one.
It can go pretty much anywhere in the pipeline before ToDigest, but
immediately before is good.

The list's anonymous_list and first_strip_reply_to must be No, and
reply_goes_to_list must be Poster.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tucsonandrei at gmail.com  Mon Mar 11 21:42:32 2013
From: tucsonandrei at gmail.com (- Andrei -)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:42:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303111235210843fa3fe960@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAJ8bDbADWYS+38QOHU+kVHQ1jm8YTokucoVqok0N44+UqxMerw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303111235210843fa3fe960@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAJ8bDbA_9ea7W-7N+nXqdju0+c9Jr3p5NBcegj7-7bcDuDy7tA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mark. I'm trying to use this just for one of the lists.

I added MyHandler.py in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers, and in
config_list added
mlist.pipeline = [ 'Replybot', 'MyHandler', 'Moderate', 'ToOutgoing', ]

When I run config.list test-list I get

  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 243, in <module>
    'ToOutgoing',
NameError: name 'mlist' is not defined




On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Andrei wrote:
>
>>OK, thanks. Does anybody has a custom handler like that and is willing
>>to share? I have no idea how to do this.
>
>
> Something like this
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> from email.Utils import formataddr, getaddresses, parseaddr
>
> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>     orig_from = parseaddr(msg.get('from'))
>     orig_rt = msg.get_all('reply-to')
>     del msg['from']
>     msg['From'] = formataddr((mlist.description, mlist.GetListEmail()))
>     del msg['reply-to']
>     if orig_rt:
>         rt_list = getaddresses(orig_rt)
>         rt_addr = [x[1] for x in rt_list]
>         if orig_from[1] not in rt_addr:
>             rt_list += [orig_from]
>     else:
>         rt_list = [orig_from]
>     msg['Reply-To'] = ', '.join([formataddr(x) for x in rt_list])
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> should do it. This will add the From: address to any existing Reply-To:
> if it isn't already there or create a Reply-To: if there wasn't one.
> It can go pretty much anywhere in the pipeline before ToDigest, but
> immediately before is good.
>
> The list's anonymous_list and first_strip_reply_to must be No, and
> reply_goes_to_list must be Poster.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 11 22:11:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:11:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8bDbA_9ea7W-7N+nXqdju0+c9Jr3p5NBcegj7-7bcDuDy7tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303111411110812d3af8b37@MSAPIRO>

Andrei wrote:

>Thanks, Mark. I'm trying to use this just for one of the lists.
>
>I added MyHandler.py in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers, and in
>config_list added
>mlist.pipeline = [ 'Replybot', 'MyHandler', 'Moderate', 'ToOutgoing', ]


I'm not sure what you mean by "in config_list added", but you should
create an input file which contains only

mlist.pipeline = [
    'SpamDetect',
    'Approve',
    'Replybot',
    'Moderate',
    'Hold',
    'MimeDel',
    'Scrubber',
    'Emergency',
    'Tagger',
    'CalcRecips',
    'AvoidDuplicates',
    'Cleanse',
    'CleanseDKIM',
    'CookHeaders',
    'MyHandler',
    'ToDigest',
    'ToArchive',
    'ToUsenet',
    'AfterDelivery',
    'Acknowledge',
    'ToOutgoing',
    ]


I.e. it should look like the definition of GLOBAL_PIPELINE in
Defaults.py with the addition of MyHandler immediately before ToDigest
(and the comments removed).

Then you run

config_list -i path/to/above/file test-list


>When I run config.list test-list I get
>
>  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 243, in <module>
>    'ToOutgoing',
>NameError: name 'mlist' is not defined


It looks like you may have modified the config_list program itself in
some way rather than specifying the complete pipeline in an input file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tucsonandrei at gmail.com  Mon Mar 11 23:53:10 2013
From: tucsonandrei at gmail.com (- Andrei -)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:53:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303111411110812d3af8b37@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAJ8bDbA_9ea7W-7N+nXqdju0+c9Jr3p5NBcegj7-7bcDuDy7tA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303111411110812d3af8b37@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAJ8bDbBLDZRkAPXT0KgCZWA8Ca98TjamnFWO5z9QAq=UkCSF3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry about that and thanks for your patience with this. I made all
the changes. No errors are generated on  config_list -i
/home/files/config-file test-list However, when I send an email it
gets delivered with unmodified reply-to header. From is replaced with
the list name. When I hit reply, list address comes up, not the
original sender address. I don't see anything in mailman error log.
Here are the mail headers: http://pastebin.com/5qnms2wK From and
Reply-to headers seem unchanged and are from the list (not the
sender).

CAT /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/MyHandler.py
#!/usr/bin/env python
#
from email.Utils import formataddr, getaddresses, parseaddr

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    orig_from = parseaddr(msg.get('from'))
    orig_rt = msg.get_all('reply-to')
    del msg['from']
    msg['From'] = formataddr((mlist.description, mlist.GetListEmail()))
    del msg['reply-to']
    if orig_rt:
        rt_list = getaddresses(orig_rt)
        rt_addr = [x[1] for x in rt_list]
        if orig_from[1] not in rt_addr:
            rt_list += [orig_from]
    else:
        rt_list = [orig_from]
    msg['Reply-To'] = ', '.join([formataddr(x) for x in rt_list])

CAT CONFIG-FILE:
mlist.pipeline = [
    'SpamDetect',
    'Approve',
    'Replybot',
    'Moderate',
    'Hold',
    'MimeDel',
    'Scrubber',
    'Emergency',
    'Tagger',
    'CalcRecips',
    'AvoidDuplicates',
    'Cleanse',
    'CleanseDKIM',
    'CookHeaders',
     'MyHandler',
    'ToDigest',
    'ToArchive',
    'ToUsenet',
    'AfterDelivery',
    'Acknowledge',
    'ToOutgoing',
]




On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Andrei wrote:
>
>>Thanks, Mark. I'm trying to use this just for one of the lists.
>>
>>I added MyHandler.py in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers, and in
>>config_list added
>>mlist.pipeline = [ 'Replybot', 'MyHandler', 'Moderate', 'ToOutgoing', ]
>
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "in config_list added", but you should
> create an input file which contains only
>
> mlist.pipeline = [
>     'SpamDetect',
>     'Approve',
>     'Replybot',
>     'Moderate',
>     'Hold',
>     'MimeDel',
>     'Scrubber',
>     'Emergency',
>     'Tagger',
>     'CalcRecips',
>     'AvoidDuplicates',
>     'Cleanse',
>     'CleanseDKIM',
>     'CookHeaders',
>     'MyHandler',
>     'ToDigest',
>     'ToArchive',
>     'ToUsenet',
>     'AfterDelivery',
>     'Acknowledge',
>     'ToOutgoing',
>     ]
>
>
> I.e. it should look like the definition of GLOBAL_PIPELINE in
> Defaults.py with the addition of MyHandler immediately before ToDigest
> (and the comments removed).
>
> Then you run
>
> config_list -i path/to/above/file test-list
>
>
>>When I run config.list test-list I get
>>
>>  File "/usr/sbin/config_list", line 243, in <module>
>>    'ToOutgoing',
>>NameError: name 'mlist' is not defined
>
>
> It looks like you may have modified the config_list program itself in
> some way rather than specifying the complete pipeline in an input file.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 12 01:15:46 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:15:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8bDbBLDZRkAPXT0KgCZWA8Ca98TjamnFWO5z9QAq=UkCSF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303111715460703d3af8aed@MSAPIRO>

Andrei wrote:

>I don't see anything in mailman error log.
>Here are the mail headers: http://pastebin.com/5qnms2wK From and
>Reply-to headers seem unchanged and are from the list (not the
>sender).


Those headers look like the post was anonymized (anonymous_list = Yes)
by Cleanse.py prior to MyHandler.py. Is there a "post to test-list
from YOUR_ADDRESS anonymized" entry in Mailman's 'post' log?

Are you certain the list's anonymous_list setting is No?

Also, did you make any changes to MyHandler.py without restarting
Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar 12 01:22:35 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:22:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide sender but keep reply-to sender address?
In-Reply-To: <90E9687390B98FA0924D7D1E@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <CAJ8bDbD8fCSg6H+YPEpcte5ZHfMctxEXQ1V-YrLNinOfNDGcFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013031111011401562691ecaa@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8bDbADWYS+38QOHU+kVHQ1jm8YTokucoVqok0N44+UqxMerw@mail.gmail.com>
	<90E9687390B98FA0924D7D1E@sodor.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <87r4jlfovo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Joseph Brennan writes:
 >  - Andrei - <tucsonandrei at gmail.com> wrote:

 > > I would like members to receive email with From: Mailing List Name
 > 
 > How will people know who wrote each message?

Obviously, the Cabal authored it.

P.S. There is no cabal.


From basroufs at gmail.com  Tue Mar 12 16:37:04 2013
From: basroufs at gmail.com (Bas Roufs)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:37:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anything possible to get rid of or reduce spam mail
	to a Mailman list?
Message-ID: <CAFjF8Znm+m0ygSS_nvpNEcU9w2SFkk4gaDOh9uPLkUMugnfV7w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mailman users, list members.

Please, take a brief technical look at this page:
http://european.rainbowgathering.eu/
This week, I will update this page and the rest of the website
RainbowGathering.eu.
Via the page european.rainbowgathering.eu, it is possible to subscribe
after a few clicks to a forum that runs on Mailman 2.1.12.
http://european.rainbowgathering.eu/#Forum  >>>
http://lists.rainbowgathering.eu/mailman/listinfo/european

>From about 2010 until a few weeks ago, the number of spam messages
remained within certain acceptable limits. However, ever since my
hosting provider moved to another server, the number of such messages
suddenly rose. Now, I am receiving as list administrator several times
each day a "request for approval", as well as an "uncaught bounce
notification": mostly because of spam of non-members.

Given the fact that I have planned to thoroughly update
RainbowGathering.eu, I am wondering what I can do to deviate spam bots
from the mailing list. Is there any measure I can take with respect
to:
certain HTML/CSS codes at the website?
settings inside mailman?

I really would appreciate your feedback.

Respectfully yours,
Bas Roufs.



--

Bas G. Roufs MA

Van 't Hoffstraat 1; NL - 3514 VT Utrecht

E. BasRoufs at gmail.com; Mob. +31 6 446 835 10; Tel. +31 30 785 20 40.

Open source OS: Kubuntu 12.10, see kubuntu.org .
Websites in construction: BasRoufs.eu ; Viaconsensus.nl; RainbowGathering.eu .

From william.mcqueen at alumni.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar 11 22:03:30 2013
From: william.mcqueen at alumni.utoronto.ca (William McQueen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:03:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtaining Membership List
Message-ID: <CAHiX_dQSFGY3Diw6iBHf2qUumdBMeB9Zzjy6Ephsab6ydxtDNQ@mail.gmail.com>

I first need to say I am not a professional tech person. But Mailman version
2.1.15 comes with my site, so I've been running it for my Adult Education
Association.

Now, our Pres would like to get the listing of the membership and I don't
know any quick or easy way of obtaining the list of  330 subscribers for
her.

Could someone explain how I can get the subscribers' list.

Would gratefully appreciate it.

Cheers,

Bill McQueen in Toronto

William McQueen, Coordinator Electronic Information
Canadian Association for the Study of Adult Education
Association Canadienne pour l' ?tude de l' ?ducation des Adultes
william.mcqueen at alumni.utoronto.ca

From rstasel at uoregon.edu  Tue Mar 12 17:40:25 2013
From: rstasel at uoregon.edu (Ryan Stasel)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:40:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably obvious, but...
Message-ID: <D815687424221A44BC80BCAC4F0B139E821C4A@ad-oh-mbx03>

This is probably obvious, but I thought I'd shoot the list an email and ask. 

Is there a way to redirect emails to a list from non-members to another email address? 

Basically, I have a list of our IT group that we use internally to send each other things, then we have a trouble ticket queue that everyone else should use. Alas, over the years, our internal list email has gotten out. Is there a good way to say "posts by non-members should redirect/bounce to the ticketing system email"? 

Thanks! 

-Ryan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 12 18:02:51 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:02:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtaining Membership List
In-Reply-To: <CAHiX_dQSFGY3Diw6iBHf2qUumdBMeB9Zzjy6Ephsab6ydxtDNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013031210025104216dc717d8@MSAPIRO>

William McQueen wrote:
>
>Could someone explain how I can get the subscribers' list.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steve at marmot.org  Tue Mar 12 17:36:56 2013
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:36:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtaining Membership List
In-Reply-To: <CAHiX_dQSFGY3Diw6iBHf2qUumdBMeB9Zzjy6Ephsab6ydxtDNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHiX_dQSFGY3Diw6iBHf2qUumdBMeB9Zzjy6Ephsab6ydxtDNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <513F59A8.3080202@marmot.org>

On 3/11/2013 3:03 PM, William McQueen wrote:
> I first need to say I am not a professional tech person. But Mailman version
> 2.1.15 comes with my site, so I've been running it for my Adult Education
> Association.
>
> Now, our Pres would like to get the listing of the membership and I don't
> know any quick or easy way of obtaining the list of  330 subscribers for
> her.
>
> Could someone explain how I can get the subscribers' list.
>
> Would gratefully appreciate it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill McQueen in Toronto

If you have access to the command line there is nothing easier.  Using 
my system as an example (you will need to know where mailman was installed):

$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members listname

will get an alphabetized list by email address

$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -f listname

will get a list including the full name (if it exists) for each 
subscriber.  Given the size of your list you'll probably want to capture 
to a file so:

$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members listname > ~/list_subscribers.txt

will put the output in a file called list_subscribers.txt in your home 
directory.  Then it's just a matter of using ftp (or whatever mechanism 
you usually use) to get the file to your local computer.

I'm not aware of any easy way to do this from the web interface. 
Perhaps someone else can help with that.
--
Steve

From bcanty at apsa.org  Tue Mar 12 17:39:33 2013
From: bcanty at apsa.org (Brian Canty)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:39:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtaining Membership List
In-Reply-To: <CAHiX_dQSFGY3Diw6iBHf2qUumdBMeB9Zzjy6Ephsab6ydxtDNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHiX_dQSFGY3Diw6iBHf2qUumdBMeB9Zzjy6Ephsab6ydxtDNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE20180929F@apsaserv.APSA.local>

Dear Bill,

Actually it is easy to get that information.  Send an email to

<listname>-request@<xxx.xxx>

In the body of the email type

Who <list password>

You will get an email back that contains all those email address you have subscribed to the list.

Make sure under privacy options, you have the 

Who can view subscription list? Administrator checked off and make sure you're an administrator.

Hope this helps.


Brian Canty
Manager, Computer Information Services
American Psychoanalytic Association
(212) 752-0450 x17

www.apsa.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+bcanty=apsa.org at python.org] On Behalf Of William McQueen
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:04 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtaining Membership List

I first need to say I am not a professional tech person. But Mailman version
2.1.15 comes with my site, so I've been running it for my Adult Education Association.

Now, our Pres would like to get the listing of the membership and I don't know any quick or easy way of obtaining the list of  330 subscribers for her.

Could someone explain how I can get the subscribers' list.

Would gratefully appreciate it.

Cheers,

Bill McQueen in Toronto

William McQueen, Coordinator Electronic Information Canadian Association for the Study of Adult Education Association Canadienne pour l' ?tude de l' ?ducation des Adultes william.mcqueen at alumni.utoronto.ca
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bcanty%40apsa.org

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue Mar 12 21:14:26 2013
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:14:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably obvious, but...
In-Reply-To: <D815687424221A44BC80BCAC4F0B139E821C4A@ad-oh-mbx03>
References: <D815687424221A44BC80BCAC4F0B139E821C4A@ad-oh-mbx03>
Message-ID: <513F8CA2.3080706@libertytrek.org>

On 2013-03-12 12:40 PM, Ryan Stasel <rstasel at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> This is probably obvious, but I thought I'd shoot the list an email and ask.
>
> Is there a way to redirect emails to a list from non-members to another email address?
>
> Basically, I have a list of our IT group that we use internally to send each other things, then we have a trouble ticket queue that everyone else should use. Alas, over the years, our internal list email has gotten out. Is there a good way to say "posts by non-members should redirect/bounce to the ticketing system email"?

Sounds like a job for your MTA, not Mailman...?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 12 23:31:42 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:31:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably obvious, but...
In-Reply-To: <513F8CA2.3080706@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC19932013031215314206095682428b@MSAPIRO>

Tanstaafl wrote

>On 2013-03-12 12:40 PM, Ryan Stasel <rstasel at uoregon.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Is there a good way to say "posts by non-members should redirect/bounce to the ticketing system email"?
>
>Sounds like a job for your MTA, not Mailman...?


Except the MTA doesn't know whether or not the post is from a list
member.

One could set Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
generic_nonmember_action to Discard and Privacy options... -> Sender
filters -> forward_auto_discards to Yes. This will cause all
non-member posts to be discarded from the list but forwarded as an
attachment to a message To: LISTNAME-owner at ..., From:
LISTNAME-bounces at ... with Subject: 'Auto-discard notification'. One
could set one of the owner/moderator addresses to an address which
pipes to a process which looks for that message and extracts the
attached message/rfc822 part and sends it to the ticketing system.

Or, one could just add the pipe to that process to the LISTNAME-owner
alias in the MTA, or pipe all LISTNAME-owner mail to a process which
either pipes the mail to 'mailman LISTNAME owner' or sends the
attached message to the ticket system.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Wed Mar 13 15:53:00 2013
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:53:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably obvious, but...
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013031215314206095682428b@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013031215314206095682428b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <514092CC.1050605@libertytrek.org>

On 2013-03-12 6:31 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Tanstaafl wrote
>> On 2013-03-12 12:40 PM, Ryan Stasel<rstasel at uoregon.edu>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there a good way to say "posts by non-members should redirect/bounce to the ticketing system email"?

>> Sounds like a job for your MTA, not Mailman...?

> Except the MTA doesn't know whether or not the post is from a list
> member.

Ooops... duh... sorry for the noise... ;)

From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Mar 13 16:01:58 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:01:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>

All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxxxxx at mailman.utm.edu (this is our mailman box).
It's happened to a couple of people, posting to different lists.  It's normally a first name like Thomas at mailman.utm.edu
I don't see anything in the mailman logs and SOMETIMES do see it in the /var/log/maillog file (but not always).
Crazy behavior...
We're at version 2.1.7
I've restarted the box in hopes it'll help.  No changes have been made to mailman in months.

Bruce Harrison
UT Martin


From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Mar 13 16:35:42 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:35:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <51409B4A.8070804@tuunq.com>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>,
	<51409B4A.8070804@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <3ABCE0F5-CFD3-4518-A7F6-1B7EDE7127AA@utm.edu>

Not positive, but I can't find anything.  Users are using outlook & exchange.  We've been thru all logs, etc.  the bad address is there coming into exchange.  Local smtp logs on mailman box does show bad address (but not always).

Bruce
utmOITS

On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:29 AM, "Carl Zwanzig" <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:

> On 3/13/2013 8:01 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
>> All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC
>> field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxxxxx at mailman.utm.edu (this is
>> our mailman box).
> 
> Are you sure it's mailman? Unless there's some rewriting going on, that's done by the MUA.  Could be new users or new mail clients mangling the header when replying.
> 
> z!
> 
> 

From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Mar 13 16:29:14 2013
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:29:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <51409B4A.8070804@tuunq.com>

On 3/13/2013 8:01 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC
> field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxxxxx at mailman.utm.edu (this is
> our mailman box).

Are you sure it's mailman? Unless there's some rewriting going on, that's 
done by the MUA.  Could be new users or new mail clients mangling the header 
when replying.

z!


From sbastian at telecable.com  Wed Mar 13 10:33:38 2013
From: sbastian at telecable.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sergio_Bastian_Rodr=EDguez?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:33:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line
Message-ID: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C12E@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>

Dear Mailman collegues.

I have a problem since I changed to Mailman as mail list Server.
When I send an email, in subject line appear tabs or whitespaces irrespective of the position.
Sometimes behind list prefix and other times in other position of subject line.
The problem occur irrespective the number of characters too.

Somebody knows what can be happening? I searched last days but I only found that someone said that the problem reside on email clients (Outlook, Thunderbird,...) and RFC 2822 and 5322 that Mailman respects, but before I had not this problem with Ezmlm software.

I have 2.1.12-17 Mailman version.

Someone can help me, please?
Kind regards.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Por favor, antes de imprimir este correo, valore si es estrictamente necesario. La naturaleza y el medio ambiente lo agradecer?n.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que TELECABLE DE ASTURIAS, S.A.U no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra atenci?n o a trav?s del tel?fono (+ 34) 984191000 y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo, cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 13 19:01:36 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:01:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line
In-Reply-To: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C12E@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
References: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C12E@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
Message-ID: <5140BF00.7070004@msapiro.net>

On 3/13/2013 2:33 AM, Sergio Bastian Rodr?guez wrote:
> 
> When I send an email, in subject line appear tabs or whitespaces irrespective of the position.
> Sometimes behind list prefix and other times in other position of subject line.
> The problem occur irrespective the number of characters too.


The issue almost certainly has to do with folding and unfolding of the
Subject: header. The underlying issue goes back to an ambiguity in
RFC822 over how this should be done.

The end result is some mail agents add whitespace following the new-line
when folding and some don't, and some remove whitespace following the
new-line when unfolding and some don't. These inconsistencies produce an
end result which may have more or less whitespace than the original.

There isn't much that can be done as whatever Mailman and the underlying
Python email library does, it will be 'right' for some mail clients and
'wrong' for others.


> I have 2.1.12-17 Mailman version.


>From what downstream package? See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mlists0001 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 13 20:57:46 2013
From: mlists0001 at gmail.com (ml lists)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:57:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest mode sending individual emails
Message-ID: <CABH4j=nY4YpQRB9z7=nZ0m_JqhOZ=GukPQwiSeU_q=O0Af2ZsA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am having some problems with a mailman list that i administer.   The list
is configured to send digest emails once a week (via the web ui) but this
is not happening, instead emails are being sent individually, as they are
posted to the list, but tagged as digest.

Would anyone have any suggestion how to fix this so they are sent weekly?

I'm running Ubuntu 11.10 and mailman 2.1.14-1

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 13 23:56:14 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:56:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest mode sending individual emails
In-Reply-To: <CABH4j=nY4YpQRB9z7=nZ0m_JqhOZ=GukPQwiSeU_q=O0Af2ZsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303131556140671caf0f6ad@MSAPIRO>

ml lists wrote:
>
>I am having some problems with a mailman list that i administer.   The list
>is configured to send digest emails once a week (via the web ui)


Lists can be configured to send digests periodically
(digest_send_periodic = Yes), but the frequency is determined by how
often Mailman's cron/senddigests runs.
	

>but this
>is not happening, instead emails are being sent individually, as they are
>posted to the list, but tagged as digest.


You have probably set digest_size_threshhold to 0 thinking this means
unlimited instead of 'send a digest with every post'. See the current
doc at <http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node19.html> and the bug
report at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558274>.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 00:34:20 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:34:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>

Bruce Harrison wrote:

>All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxxxxx at mailman.utm.edu (this is our mailman box). 
>It's happened to a couple of people, posting to different lists.  It's normally a first name like Thomas at mailman.utm.edu

So this only occurs with some posts and is not always the same address?

Is the poster doing something like

Cc: Thomas, Bill <bt at example.com>

which is really two addresses, the local address Thomas and
bt at example.com, and then the MTA qualifies the local address by adding
the local domain.

(The correct form of the above would be

Cc: "Thomas, Bill" <bt at example.com>

or

Cc: Thomas\, Bill <bt at example.com>
)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 01:04:15 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:04:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>,
	<PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <C7D27B7B-2C6E-48A7-A48C-DE7FAAB8A1C1@utm.edu>

That is true.  I've seen it with 2 different users and 2 different lists.  I can't reproduce it reliabley either.  At this point I'm looking for ideas on where to look for data, etc.

Bruce
utmOITS

On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:34 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Bruce Harrison wrote:
> 
>> All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxxxxx at mailman.utm.edu (this is our mailman box). 
>> It's happened to a couple of people, posting to different lists.  It's normally a first name like Thomas at mailman.utm.edu
> 
> So this only occurs with some posts and is not always the same address?
> 
> Is the poster doing something like
> 
> Cc: Thomas, Bill <bt at example.com>
> 
> which is really two addresses, the local address Thomas and
> bt at example.com, and then the MTA qualifies the local address by adding
> the local domain.
> 
> (The correct form of the above would be
> 
> Cc: "Thomas, Bill" <bt at example.com>
> 
> or
> 
> Cc: Thomas\, Bill <bt at example.com>
> )
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 01:07:11 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:07:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>,
	<PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>

It's possible the user might be doing something like that, but I don't think so.  If it was a good email address, it would seem more likely...

I'll keep watching it.  I have a feeling outlook autocomplete might be involved.  However in the outlook sent folder, the bogus address isn't shown...

Bruce
utmOITS

On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:34 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Bruce Harrison wrote:
> 
>> All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxxxxx at mailman.utm.edu (this is our mailman box). 
>> It's happened to a couple of people, posting to different lists.  It's normally a first name like Thomas at mailman.utm.edu
> 
> So this only occurs with some posts and is not always the same address?
> 
> Is the poster doing something like
> 
> Cc: Thomas, Bill <bt at example.com>
> 
> which is really two addresses, the local address Thomas and
> bt at example.com, and then the MTA qualifies the local address by adding
> the local domain.
> 
> (The correct form of the above would be
> 
> Cc: "Thomas, Bill" <bt at example.com>
> 
> or
> 
> Cc: Thomas\, Bill <bt at example.com>
> )
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 01:24:14 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:24:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <C7D27B7B-2C6E-48A7-A48C-DE7FAAB8A1C1@utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>,
	<PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>
	<C7D27B7B-2C6E-48A7-A48C-DE7FAAB8A1C1@utm.edu>
Message-ID: <514118AE.2030501@msapiro.net>

On 3/13/2013 5:04 PM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> That is true.  I've seen it with 2 different users and 2 different lists.  I can't reproduce it reliabley either.  At this point I'm looking for ideas on where to look for data, etc.


Is the Cc: in the message in the Digest. What does it look like there?
How about in the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file?


> On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:34 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> Is the poster doing something like
>>
>> Cc: Thomas, Bill <bt at example.com>


I think the above will reproduce it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 01:43:00 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:43:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <514118AE.2030501@msapiro.net>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB1629@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>,
	<PC1993201303131634200234e15c62fe@MSAPIRO>
	<C7D27B7B-2C6E-48A7-A48C-DE7FAAB8A1C1@utm.edu>,
	<514118AE.2030501@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <3AEF3F05-09AD-4DC9-B97C-EE43BD2B99EA@utm.edu>

Don't know, but will check in the morning.  Thanks.


Bruce
utmOITS

On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:24 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/13/2013 5:04 PM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
>> That is true.  I've seen it with 2 different users and 2 different lists.  I can't reproduce it reliabley either.  At this point I'm looking for ideas on where to look for data, etc.
> 
> 
> Is the Cc: in the message in the Digest. What does it look like there?
> How about in the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file?
> 
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:34 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is the poster doing something like
>>> 
>>> Cc: Thomas, Bill <bt at example.com>
> 
> 
> I think the above will reproduce it.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 06:37:53 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:37:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>

Bruce Harrison wrote
>
>I'll keep watching it.  I have a feeling outlook autocomplete might be involved.  However in the outlook sent folder, the bogus address isn't shown...


What exactly is in the headers in the outlook sent folder?

Does the string 'Thomas' or whatever the local part of the bogas
address is appear anywhere in the headers of the message in the
outlook sent folder?

I think you misunderstand what I was suggesting? I was suggesting a Cc:
of the form Thomas, Bill <bill.thomas at example.com>. I.e. an address
like bill.thomas at example.com with a display name of Thomas, Bill, but
improperly/incompletely quoted so that it is actually two addresses;
the address <bill.thomas at example.com> with display name Bill and the
local address Thomas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mlists0001 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 14 10:54:46 2013
From: mlists0001 at gmail.com (ml lists)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:54:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest mode sending individual emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303131556140671caf0f6ad@MSAPIRO>
References: <CABH4j=nY4YpQRB9z7=nZ0m_JqhOZ=GukPQwiSeU_q=O0Af2ZsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303131556140671caf0f6ad@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CABH4j=m0TyYxpC66yGkFjEqBQPcyh6dFdUiv57Z0e6X4ysur8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 March 2013 22:56, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
> Lists can be configured to send digests periodically
> (digest_send_periodic = Yes), but the frequency is determined by how
> often Mailman's cron/senddigests runs.
>
> You have probably set digest_size_threshhold to 0 thinking this means
> unlimited instead of 'send a digest with every post'. See the current
> doc at <http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node19.html> and the bug
> report at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558274>.

I had/have the following
digest_size_threshhold = 30
digest_send_periodic = no
digest_volume_frequency = weekly

And if I understood correctly, this regardless of threshhold size
should only send weekly, no?

With "cron/senddigests"  should there be a crontab entry on the system
for this or is it controlled elsewhere?

From sbastian at telecable.com  Thu Mar 14 11:52:00 2013
From: sbastian at telecable.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sergio_Bastian_Rodr=EDguez?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:52:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line
In-Reply-To: <5140BF00.7070004@msapiro.net>
References: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C12E@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
	<5140BF00.7070004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C3D2@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>

Thanks for your answer, Mark.

I can not understand one issue of that behaviour.
All emails are send/receive by the same email client, Outlook 2003 and 2007 versions.
So, when all costumers used the same client software , is possible that sometimes someone manage emails adding whitespaces into subject headers and sometimes not? I can not find the relation between client and email when all emails are sending with the same format, the same client sometimes adds whitespaces and sometimes not.

Regards


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 13 de marzo de 2013 19:02
Para: Sergio Bastian Rodr?guez
CC: mailman-users at python.org
Asunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line

On 3/13/2013 2:33 AM, Sergio Bastian Rodr?guez wrote:
>
> When I send an email, in subject line appear tabs or whitespaces irrespective of the position.
> Sometimes behind list prefix and other times in other position of subject line.
> The problem occur irrespective the number of characters too.


The issue almost certainly has to do with folding and unfolding of the
Subject: header. The underlying issue goes back to an ambiguity in
RFC822 over how this should be done.

The end result is some mail agents add whitespace following the new-line
when folding and some don't, and some remove whitespace following the
new-line when unfolding and some don't. These inconsistencies produce an
end result which may have more or less whitespace than the original.

There isn't much that can be done as whatever Mailman and the underlying
Python email library does, it will be 'right' for some mail clients and
'wrong' for others.


> I have 2.1.12-17 Mailman version.


>From what downstream package? See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Por favor, antes de imprimir este correo, valore si es estrictamente necesario. La naturaleza y el medio ambiente lo agradecer?n.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que TELECABLE DE ASTURIAS, S.A.U no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra atenci?n o a trav?s del tel?fono (+ 34) 984191000 y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo, cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar 14 12:13:26 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:13:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line
In-Reply-To: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C3D2@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
References: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C12E@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
	<5140BF00.7070004@msapiro.net>
	<C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C3D2@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
Message-ID: <871ubifd49.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Sergio Bastian Rodr?guez writes:
 > Thanks for your answer, Mark.
 > 
 > I can not understand one issue of that behaviour.  All emails are
 > send/receive by the same email client, Outlook 2003 and 2007
 > versions.  So, when all costumers used the same client software ,
 > is possible that sometimes someone manage emails adding whitespaces
 > into subject headers and sometimes not? I can not find the relation
 > between client and email when all emails are sending with the same
 > format, the same client sometimes adds whitespaces and sometimes
 > not.

A particular client may or may not show the problem.  If the client is
constant, either the problem exists all the time or it doesn't.

However, the text in the subject line matters.  Because Mailman
changes the subject field (adding the list prefix), it may have to
refold the header field.  But this isn't always true.  So sometimes
the problem shows up, sometimes not, even with the same client.

HTH

Steve

From sbastian at telecable.com  Thu Mar 14 13:30:15 2013
From: sbastian at telecable.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sergio_Bastian_Rodr=EDguez?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:30:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line
In-Reply-To: <871ubifd49.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C12E@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
	<5140BF00.7070004@msapiro.net>
	<C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C3D2@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>
	<871ubifd49.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C017BE7FEF406A498A6114BD974CF9C2D58586C42D@MBX.ssaa-exchange.red>

Thanks Stephen and Mark.

Your helps are welcome.

Regards

_____________________________________________________________

Sergio Basti?n Rodr?guez
Servicios de Conectividad y Datacenter
Servicios y Arquitectura de Red
TeleCable,SA
+34 984 191 265 / +34 684 696 309
sbastian at telecable.com
C/ Profesor Potter 190 - PCT Gij?n 33203

_____________________________________________________________

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org]
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de marzo de 2013 12:13
Para: Sergio Bastian Rodr?guez
CC: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Asunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] tabs or whitespaces added at subject line

Sergio Bastian Rodr?guez writes:
 > Thanks for your answer, Mark.
 >
 > I can not understand one issue of that behaviour.  All emails are
 > send/receive by the same email client, Outlook 2003 and 2007
 > versions.  So, when all costumers used the same client software ,
 > is possible that sometimes someone manage emails adding whitespaces
 > into subject headers and sometimes not? I can not find the relation
 > between client and email when all emails are sending with the same
 > format, the same client sometimes adds whitespaces and sometimes
 > not.

A particular client may or may not show the problem.  If the client is
constant, either the problem exists all the time or it doesn't.

However, the text in the subject line matters.  Because Mailman
changes the subject field (adding the list prefix), it may have to
refold the header field.  But this isn't always true.  So sometimes
the problem shows up, sometimes not, even with the same client.

HTH

Steve


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Por favor, antes de imprimir este correo, valore si es estrictamente necesario. La naturaleza y el medio ambiente lo agradecer?n.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que TELECABLE DE ASTURIAS, S.A.U no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra atenci?n o a trav?s del tel?fono (+ 34) 984191000 y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo, cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 17:33:56 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:33:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest mode sending individual emails
In-Reply-To: <CABH4j=m0TyYxpC66yGkFjEqBQPcyh6dFdUiv57Z0e6X4ysur8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013031409335600153195d847@MSAPIRO>

ml lists wrote:
>
>I had/have the following
>digest_size_threshhold = 30
>digest_send_periodic = no
>digest_volume_frequency = weekly
>
>And if I understood correctly, this regardless of threshhold size
>should only send weekly, no?


No. This will send a digest whenever the size reaches about 30K bytes
and only then. If posts to the list are large, I.e. greater than about
30K, this will send a digest for each post.

Periodic digests will not be sent.

Digest volume frequency has nothing to do with when digests are sent.
It controls how often the Vol number in the Subject line "LISTNAME
Digest, Vol ##, Issue ##" is incremented and the Issue number reset to
1.


>With "cron/senddigests"  should there be a crontab entry on the system
>for this or is it controlled elsewhere?


There should be a crontab for mailman that runs several jobs. Depending
on how Mailman was installed, this may be a system crontab, e.g.,
/etc/cron.d/mailman, or the Mailman user's crontab, e.g.,
/var/spool/cron/mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 17:39:32 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:39:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>

OK, there are no headers in the Sent folder as the mail message gets copied in there before it goes thru the mail systems, so nothing header wise to see there.

Below is a message showing the problem and then it's headers.  In this message, the bogus email address is Judy at mailman.utm.edu

MESSAGE
========
From: Terry Lewis <tlewis at utm.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:31 AM
To: "utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu" <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>
Cc: Judy Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson <edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>
Subject: [utmcc-l] Nicholas Fortner

Good morning everyone,
 
Angela just sent me a text message and said that Nicholas is doing better.  He has a concussion and it will just take some time to heal.  They are hoping to come home this afternoon.
 
Terry


HEADERS
========
Received: from mailman.utm.edu (10.51.0.150) by EXCH2010CAS1.utm.edu
 (10.51.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.438.0; Wed, 13 Mar 2013
 08:31:12 -0500
Received: from mailman.utm.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])	by mailman.utm.edu
 (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2DDVC7M000511;	Wed, 13 Mar 2013
 08:31:12 -0500
Received: from mxout1.utm.edu (mxout1.utm.edu [10.50.0.24])	by mailman.utm.edu
 (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id	r2DDVB4i000508	for
 <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:31:11 -0500
X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1363181471-0d4900b50000-NrrYJE
X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.50.0.24:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi
Received: from EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu (unknown [10.51.0.157])	by mxout1.utm.edu
 (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 5668DBE2E92	for <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>; Wed,
 13 Mar 2013 08:31:11 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu ([10.51.0.157]) by mxout1.utm.edu with
	ESMTP id 8N1xMQ7ytZvzT7vV (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA	bits=128
 verify=NO) for <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>;	Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:31:11 -0500
 (CDT)
Received: from EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu ([fe80::5961:6b87:ea8f:43d]) by
	EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000;	Wed, 13 Mar 2013
 08:31:11 -0500
From: Terry Lewis <tlewis at utm.edu>
To: "'utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu'" <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>
X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Nicholas Fortner
Thread-Topic: Nicholas Fortner
Thread-Index: Ac4f7tbBnHG215KtSnq6fTwkikyGzA==
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:31:10 +0000
Message-ID: <987D01F3928EEA449882058E992BDE1D01027F5E5A at EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.51.0.150]
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.51.0.157]
X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1363181471
X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES128-SHA
X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at utm.edu
X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: -1002.00
X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=-1002.00 using global scores of
	TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=9.0 KILL_LEVEL=1000.0 
CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson
	<edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>
Subject: [utmcc-l] Nicholas Fortner
X-BeenThere: utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7
Precedence: list
List-Id: UTM Office of Information Technology Services Mailing List
	<utmcc-l.mailman.utm.edu>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mailman.utm.edu/mailman/listinfo/utmcc-l>,
	<mailto:utmcc-l-request at mailman.utm.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>
List-Help: <mailto:utmcc-l-request at mailman.utm.edu?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mailman.utm.edu/mailman/listinfo/utmcc-l>,
	<mailto:utmcc-l-request at mailman.utm.edu?subject=subscribe>
Sender: <utmcc-l-bounces at mailman.utm.edu>
Errors-To: utmcc-l-bounces at mailman.utm.edu
Return-Path: utmcc-l-bounces at mailman.utm.edu
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: EXCH2010CAS1.utm.edu
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PRD: mailman.utm.edu
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SenderIdResult: None
Received-SPF: None (EXCH2010CAS1.utm.edu: utmcc-l-bounces at mailman.utm.edu
 does not designate permitted sender hosts)
Content-type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="B_3446098742_40764905"

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3446098742_40764905
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="B_3446098742_40796425"


--B_3446098742_40796425
Content-type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Good morning everyone,
 
Angela just sent me a text message and said that Nicholas is doing better.
He has a concussion and it will just take some time to heal.  They are
hoping to come home this afternoon.
 
Terry



--B_3446098742_40796425
Content-type: text/html;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsof=
t-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=
=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org=
/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
@page WordSection1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Good morning everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Angela just sent me a text message and said that Nicho=
las is doing better.&nbsp; He has a concussion and it will just take some ti=
me to heal.&nbsp; They are hoping to come home this afternoon.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Terry<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>


--B_3446098742_40796425--


--B_3446098742_40764905
Content-type: text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt"
Content-ID: <F975D7DB52227D46975B3A94262D0CDA at utm.edu>
Content-disposition: attachment;
	filename="ATT00001.txt"
Content-transfer-encoding: base64


X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCnV0bWNj
LWwgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQp1dG1jYy1sQG1haWxtYW4udXRtLmVkdQ0KaHR0cDovL21haWxt
YW4udXRtLmVkdS9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3V0bWNjLWwNCg==
--B_3446098742_40764905--



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Corey Jones
Sr Computer Systems Specialist
IT Administrator III
Information Technology Services
The University of Tennessee at Martin
731-881-7872 (ph)
cjones at utm.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:38 AM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] strange problem

Bruce Harrison wrote
>
>I'll keep watching it.  I have a feeling outlook autocomplete might be involved.  However in the outlook sent folder, the bogus address isn't shown...


What exactly is in the headers in the outlook sent folder?

Does the string 'Thomas' or whatever the local part of the bogas address is appear anywhere in the headers of the message in the outlook sent folder?

I think you misunderstand what I was suggesting? I was suggesting a Cc:
of the form Thomas, Bill <bill.thomas at example.com>. I.e. an address like bill.thomas at example.com with a display name of Thomas, Bill, but improperly/incompletely quoted so that it is actually two addresses; the address <bill.thomas at example.com> with display name Bill and the local address Thomas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 18:02:46 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:02:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <514202B6.7020005@msapiro.net>

On 3/14/2013 9:39 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> OK, there are no headers in the Sent folder as the mail message gets copied in there before it goes thru the mail systems, so nothing header wise to see there.


If the message in the sent folder has no Cc: information, then where
does it come from?

I am not familiar with Outlook, but most MUAs compose an RFC822
compliant message with at least From:, To:, Cc:, Subject:, Date: and
maybe Message-ID: headers and that's what goes in a sent folder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 18:13:08 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:13:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <51420524.7060002@msapiro.net>

On 3/14/2013 9:39 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> 
> Below is a message showing the problem and then it's headers.  In this message, the bogus email address is Judy at mailman.utm.edu


I just noticed something else.


> MESSAGE
> ========
[...]
> Cc: Judy Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson <edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>


This Cc:, apparently shown by outlook or ?? shows "Judy Sandefer
<jsandefer at utm.edu>,"




> HEADERS
> ========
[...]
> CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson
> 	<edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>


Whereas this one shows only "Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>,".  I.e., it
appears that for some reason, something has separated the "Judy" from
the display name "Judy Sandifer" and is treating it as a separate, local
address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 18:17:06 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:17:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <51420524.7060002@msapiro.net>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<51420524.7060002@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB406F@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>

Interesting...   jsandefer at utm.edu is a good address
I'm still suspecting the autocomplete in Outlook, but we can't make it repeat.
We've also seen this happen on both a Mac and a PC, with 2-3 different people...

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:13 PM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] strange problem

On 3/14/2013 9:39 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> 
> Below is a message showing the problem and then it's headers.  In this 
> message, the bogus email address is Judy at mailman.utm.edu


I just noticed something else.


> MESSAGE
> ========
[...]
> Cc: Judy Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" 
> <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson <edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes 
> <trakes at utm.edu>


This Cc:, apparently shown by outlook or ?? shows "Judy Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>,"




> HEADERS
> ========
[...]
> CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson
> 	<edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>


Whereas this one shows only "Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>,".  I.e., it appears that for some reason, something has separated the "Judy" from the display name "Judy Sandifer" and is treating it as a separate, local address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 18:46:10 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:46:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB406F@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<51420524.7060002@msapiro.net>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB406F@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <51420CE2.2070403@msapiro.net>

On 3/14/2013 10:17 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> I'm still suspecting the autocomplete in Outlook, but we can't make it repeat.


If you want to see what arrives to Mailman, you can do the following:

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> on custom handlers.

Code the following custom handler and save it as
Mailman/Handlers/MyHandler.py.

cut here---------------------------------------------------------------
from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if msg.get('cc'):
        syslog('debug', 'Message to %s has Cc: %s',
                mlist.internal_name,
                msg['cc']
               )
cut here---------------------------------------------------------------

Put this handler first in the pipeline by putting

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(0, 'MyHandler')

in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman.

This will log all incoming Cc: headers in Mailman's logs/debug log. When
you've seen enough, you can remove

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(0, 'MyHandler')

from mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman.

You could also ask those people whose good addresses are in Cc: what the
headers look like in the message they received.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar 14 20:08:56 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 04:08:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

I see the conversation has continued as I wrote.  I'll try
to avoid duplication, but it would be a mess to rewrite the whole thing.

Bruce Harrison writes:

 > OK, there are no headers in the Sent folder as the mail message
 > gets copied in there before it goes thru the mail systems, so
 > nothing header wise to see there.

As Mark says, there must be some addressee information somewhere,
otherwise the Sent folder couldn't display To and Cc information for
you.  That's the information we need to see.

 > Below is a message showing the problem and then it's headers.  In
 > this message, the bogus email address is Judy at mailman.utm.edu
 > 
 > MESSAGE
 > ========
 > From: Terry Lewis <tlewis at utm.edu>
 > Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:31 AM
 > To: "utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu" <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>
 > Cc: Judy Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson <edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>
 > Subject: [utmcc-l] Nicholas Fortner

 > HEADERS
 > ========

I've "cleaned up" to include only information I've used, but thank you
for sending the complete headers.

I don't understand why the EXCH2010CAS2 -> mxout1 field is repeated; I
guess that has something to do with spam filtering since mxout1
identifies itself differently in the two fields (not shown here).
Ditto the mail from mailman.utm.edu to itself.

 > Received: from mailman.utm.edu by EXCH2010CAS1.utm.edu
 > Received: from mailman.utm.edu by mailman.utm.edu
 > Received: from mxout1.utm.edu by mailman.utm.edu
 > Received: from EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu by mxout1.utm.edu
 > Received: from EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu by mxout1.utm.edu
 > Received: from EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu by EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu
 > From: Terry Lewis <tlewis at utm.edu>
 > To: "'utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu'" <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>
 > X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.51.0.157]
 > CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson
 > 	<edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>

Unfortunately, these headers are clearly from after Mailman processed
the message, so it's not possible to determine where the bogus address
was introduced.  Looking at the Received fields, there are several
candidates that might rewrite headers:

1. tlewis's MUA (Outlook)
2. the MTA that received the message from the user (EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu)
3. the spam checker (Barracuda, which is evidently a piece of trash --
   it inserts its trace headers out of order in a random place)
4. an internal MTA (EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu aka 10.51.0.157)
5. the university's MTA on the spam firewall (mxout1.utm.edu)
6. Mailman
7. Mailman's outgoing MTA (mailman.utm.edu)

>From the choice of bogus address (@mailman.utm.edu), it's almost
certainly Mailman or mailman.utm.edu.  The other agents don't have the
right (and probably not the knowledge) to use that address.  Almost
certainly Mailman received the header:

    CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, Judy, Edie Gibson <edgibson>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>

and either Mailman or mailman.utm.edu's MTA completed "Judy" to
"<Judy at mailman.utm.edu>".

 > >I'll keep watching it.  I have a feeling outlook autocomplete
 > >might be involved.  However in the outlook sent folder, the bogus
 > >address isn't shown...

You shouldn't expect it to be.  You should expect just "Judy" by
itself somewhere, surrounded by commas as above.

My guess is that the user entered "Sandefer, Judy" (perhaps with help
from copy-and-paste or a completion feature), which Outlook completed
to "Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, Judy" because it knows who
"Sandefer" is, but not who "Judy" is.  It might even know who
"Sandefer Judy" is, but inserting a comma makes "Judy" a separate
addressee.  It then abandoned responsibility for the bogus data and
just passed it on verbatim to the next program in the chain, and this
irresponsibility continued through the entire UTM system until Mailman
(or its MTA) said "hey, wait, *somebody* has to take ownership of this
before it gets to the outside world and I guess that's me!"

Earlier Mark wrote:

 > I think you misunderstand what I was suggesting? I was suggesting a
 > Cc: of the form Thomas, Bill <bill.thomas at example.com>. I.e. an
 > address like bill.thomas at example.com with a display name of Thomas,
 > Bill, but improperly/incompletely quoted so that it is actually two
 > addresses; the address <bill.thomas at example.com> with display name
 > Bill and the local address Thomas.

This wouldn't produce the effect above, though, where the complete
address gets the surname and the bogus address is based on the given
name (the reverse of what Mark is suggesting).

From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 20:21:53 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:21:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>

Stephen,

Thanks for a good, detailed explanation.  Our one remaining Barracuda boxes is an outgoing mail filter, used mainly to keep a "bad" users or malware from spamming from a utm.edu address.    We'll be moving to FOPE with Microsoft in the future (currently does our in-bound mail filtering).
In Outlook, you can open a mail message, then have it display the actual headers.  When looking at a "Sent" message, there are no headers at all.  Appears to me it just shows what's in the text, including the To:, From:, etc.  no real mail headers we can find.
I don't know why the headers are repeated... I'm copying our Exchange guy on this note, he may have some ideas.

My mailman box, uses it's own localhost SMTP agent to handle it's mail.  SMTP then connects to our main incoming mail host (mx1.utm.edu or xmail.utm.edu).  The CAS boxes are of course the CAS servers for Exchange.

I realize my info is somewhat incomplete.  The next time it happens, I?m going to try and track it from start to finish, etc.
We'll see what happens...

Bruce
UTM

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:09 PM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] strange problem

I see the conversation has continued as I wrote.  I'll try to avoid duplication, but it would be a mess to rewrite the whole thing.

Bruce Harrison writes:

 > OK, there are no headers in the Sent folder as the mail message  > gets copied in there before it goes thru the mail systems, so  > nothing header wise to see there.

As Mark says, there must be some addressee information somewhere, otherwise the Sent folder couldn't display To and Cc information for you.  That's the information we need to see.

 > Below is a message showing the problem and then it's headers.  In  > this message, the bogus email address is Judy at mailman.utm.edu  >  > MESSAGE  > ========  > From: Terry Lewis <tlewis at utm.edu>  > Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:31 AM  > To: "utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu" <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>  > Cc: Judy Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson <edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>  > Subject: [utmcc-l] Nicholas Fortner

 > HEADERS
 > ========

I've "cleaned up" to include only information I've used, but thank you for sending the complete headers.

I don't understand why the EXCH2010CAS2 -> mxout1 field is repeated; I guess that has something to do with spam filtering since mxout1 identifies itself differently in the two fields (not shown here).
Ditto the mail from mailman.utm.edu to itself.

 > Received: from mailman.utm.edu by EXCH2010CAS1.utm.edu  > Received: from mailman.utm.edu by mailman.utm.edu  > Received: from mxout1.utm.edu by mailman.utm.edu  > Received: from EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu by mxout1.utm.edu  > Received: from EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu by mxout1.utm.edu  > Received: from EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu by EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu  > From: Terry Lewis <tlewis at utm.edu>  > To: "'utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu'" <utmcc-l at mailman.utm.edu>  > X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.51.0.157]  > CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, <Judy at mailman.utm.edu>, Edie Gibson
 > 	<edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>

Unfortunately, these headers are clearly from after Mailman processed the message, so it's not possible to determine where the bogus address was introduced.  Looking at the Received fields, there are several candidates that might rewrite headers:

1. tlewis's MUA (Outlook)
2. the MTA that received the message from the user (EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu) 3. the spam checker (Barracuda, which is evidently a piece of trash --
   it inserts its trace headers out of order in a random place) 4. an internal MTA (EXCH2010CAS2.utm.edu aka 10.51.0.157) 5. the university's MTA on the spam firewall (mxout1.utm.edu) 6. Mailman 7. Mailman's outgoing MTA (mailman.utm.edu)

From the choice of bogus address (@mailman.utm.edu), it's almost certainly Mailman or mailman.utm.edu.  The other agents don't have the right (and probably not the knowledge) to use that address.  Almost certainly Mailman received the header:

    CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, Judy, Edie Gibson <edgibson>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>

and either Mailman or mailman.utm.edu's MTA completed "Judy" to "<Judy at mailman.utm.edu>".

 > >I'll keep watching it.  I have a feeling outlook autocomplete  > >might be involved.  However in the outlook sent folder, the bogus  > >address isn't shown...

You shouldn't expect it to be.  You should expect just "Judy" by itself somewhere, surrounded by commas as above.

My guess is that the user entered "Sandefer, Judy" (perhaps with help from copy-and-paste or a completion feature), which Outlook completed to "Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, Judy" because it knows who "Sandefer" is, but not who "Judy" is.  It might even know who "Sandefer Judy" is, but inserting a comma makes "Judy" a separate addressee.  It then abandoned responsibility for the bogus data and just passed it on verbatim to the next program in the chain, and this irresponsibility continued through the entire UTM system until Mailman (or its MTA) said "hey, wait, *somebody* has to take ownership of this before it gets to the outside world and I guess that's me!"

Earlier Mark wrote:

 > I think you misunderstand what I was suggesting? I was suggesting a  > Cc: of the form Thomas, Bill <bill.thomas at example.com>. I.e. an  > address like bill.thomas at example.com with a display name of Thomas,  > Bill, but improperly/incompletely quoted so that it is actually two  > addresses; the address <bill.thomas at example.com> with display name  > Bill and the local address Thomas.

This wouldn't produce the effect above, though, where the complete address gets the surname and the bogus address is based on the given name (the reverse of what Mark is suggesting).


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar 14 23:12:42 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:12:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bruce Harrison writes:

 > Thanks for a good, detailed explanation.

You're welcome.  This kind of problem gets sadly technical really
quickly.

 > Our one remaining Barracuda boxes is an outgoing mail filter,

I really should keep my random opinions to myself.  I'm sure it does a
good job, I was just annoyed that it made tracing the message harder.

 > In Outlook, you can open a mail message, then have it display the
 > actual headers.  When looking at a "Sent" message, there are no
 > headers at all.  Appears to me it just shows what's in the text,
 > including the To:, From:, etc.  no real mail headers we can find.

Perhaps when sending a message Outlook parses those headers in the
text to get the information it gives to the MTA as envelope addresses.
What does the CC in the "Sent" message (any view you can get of it!) 
have related to "Judy", if anything?

 > I don't know why the headers are repeated... I'm copying our
 > Exchange guy on this note, he may have some ideas.

Not terribly important, since we don't think the Exchange boxes are
doing anything except passing on a bare "Judy" in the CC field.  But
without copies of the queuefiles we can't tell where it was introduced.

From harrison at utm.edu  Thu Mar 14 23:22:19 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:22:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>

"Judy at mailman.utm.edu" was not in the Sent folder message at all.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:13 PM
To: Bruce Harrison
Cc: Terry Lewis; mailman-users at python.org; Corey Jones
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] strange problem

Bruce Harrison writes:

 > Thanks for a good, detailed explanation.

You're welcome.  This kind of problem gets sadly technical really quickly.

 > Our one remaining Barracuda boxes is an outgoing mail filter,

I really should keep my random opinions to myself.  I'm sure it does a good job, I was just annoyed that it made tracing the message harder.

 > In Outlook, you can open a mail message, then have it display the  > actual headers.  When looking at a "Sent" message, there are no  > headers at all.  Appears to me it just shows what's in the text,  > including the To:, From:, etc.  no real mail headers we can find.

Perhaps when sending a message Outlook parses those headers in the text to get the information it gives to the MTA as envelope addresses.
What does the CC in the "Sent" message (any view you can get of it!) have related to "Judy", if anything?

 > I don't know why the headers are repeated... I'm copying our  > Exchange guy on this note, he may have some ideas.

Not terribly important, since we don't think the Exchange boxes are doing anything except passing on a bare "Judy" in the CC field.  But without copies of the queuefiles we can't tell where it was introduced.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 14 23:34:37 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:34:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>

On 3/14/2013 3:22 PM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" was not in the Sent folder message at all.


We understand that and never expected it to be. The question is in
exactly what context in the Cc: in the sent folder is "Judy" found.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar 15 00:27:07 2013
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 08:27:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87r4jhef5g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 3/14/2013 3:22 PM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
 > > "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" was not in the Sent folder message at all.
 > 
 > 
 > We understand that and never expected it to be. The question is in
 > exactly what context in the Cc: in the sent folder is "Judy" found.

To be specific, we expect something like

    CC: Sandefer <jsandefer at utm.edu>, Judy, Edie Gibson <edgibson at utm.edu>, Thomas Rakes <trakes at utm.edu>

or perhaps

    CC: Sandefer, Judy, Edie Gibson, Thomas Rakes

or some mixture of the above.  The important thing is the four-letter
string "Judy" being set off from other names and/or addresses by
commas (and optionally white space).  Even though a human would be
able to infer three addressees from the second example, a standard-
conforming program would not; it would see four addressees.

We could also be totally off-base, but I don't see how any of the
programs farther down the pipeline (except maybe the Exchange server?) 
would have any information at all about "Judy" that would cause that
string to appear in the header of the message later.  So we're pretty
sure that it has to be coming from Outlook.  It would be nice to find
out exactly where from and what it looks like.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 15 02:05:13 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:05:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <87r4jhef5g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>
	<87r4jhef5g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <0265c27b-c39a-4aa6-9ad3-86be7faa4f05@email.android.com>

I hope the voice recognition on my phone works well for this I have unusual challenges at the moment so this is the best I can do as a response .

here's my theory. outlook makes a compliant message with the CC header that happens to be folded on the white space in the middle of a display name  .

some agent other than mailman, because mailman doesn't do it according to my tests at least with the email package I test it with , sees the hanging first part of the display name at the end of the first line of the CC header and interprets that as a local address and then qualifies it with the domain  

whatever agent or appliance this is lives within the same domain as the mailman server.
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

From harrison at utm.edu  Fri Mar 15 14:10:42 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:10:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <0265c27b-c39a-4aa6-9ad3-86be7faa4f05@email.android.com>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>
	<87r4jhef5g.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
	<0265c27b-c39a-4aa6-9ad3-86be7faa4f05@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <15ACD3C9-923F-481C-8613-63EB0783F12B@utm.edu>

Thanks for the info.  We'll keep looking, but it's not a big deal.  Haven't seen it again...

Bruce
utmOITS

On Mar 14, 2013, at 8:05 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> I hope the voice recognition on my phone works well for this I have unusual challenges at the moment so this is the best I can do as a response .
> 
> here's my theory. outlook makes a compliant message with the CC header that happens to be folded on the white space in the middle of a display name  .
> 
> some agent other than mailman, because mailman doesn't do it according to my tests at least with the email package I test it with , sees the hanging first part of the display name at the end of the first line of the CC header and interprets that as a local address and then qualifies it with the domain  
> 
> whatever agent or appliance this is lives within the same domain as the mailman server.
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 

From harrison at utm.edu  Fri Mar 15 14:14:23 2013
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:14:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem
In-Reply-To: <5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>
References: <9BC792E1-028E-4627-B620-AE3B467677FB@utm.edu>
	<PC1993201303132237530968c3722ffd@MSAPIRO>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB3F69@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87zjy5er3r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4491@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>
	<87sj3xeilh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B20100CB4942@EXCH2010MBOX1.utm.edu>,
	<5142507D.6080205@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <F2416FAD-0E9B-4B95-9F30-0B6B34C2214E@utm.edu>

That's the strange part,  Judy does not appear in the Sent folder msg at all.

Bruce
utmOITS

On Mar 14, 2013, at 5:34 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/14/2013 3:22 PM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
>> "Judy at mailman.utm.edu" was not in the Sent folder message at all.
> 
> 
> We understand that and never expected it to be. The question is in
> exactly what context in the Cc: in the sent folder is "Judy" found.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

From dan at prowebassociates.com  Wed Mar 20 14:34:28 2013
From: dan at prowebassociates.com (Dan Young)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:34:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto delete all non-members posts
Message-ID: <5149BAE4.6010903@prowebassociates.com>


I have the lists/members on 2.19 version of mailman imported nightly
via automated command line text file import.

I get numerous spam posts that get sent to me from bogus addresses for 
approval
daily. Can I set this to only allow members postings and just delete any 
others
without me doing manually?

Took a couple years for it to become a headache, wanted to make sure I do
properly since other than that is working great,

Thanks,
Dan Young

-- 
ProWeb Associates, Inc. <http://www.ProWebAssociates.com>
Phone: 717-207-7125 ext 101
Toll-Free: 1-800-892-5136 ext 101
Fax: 1 (717) 327-4010

From Richard at Damon-family.org  Wed Mar 20 15:54:51 2013
From: Richard at Damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:54:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto delete all non-members posts
In-Reply-To: <5149BAE4.6010903@prowebassociates.com>
References: <5149BAE4.6010903@prowebassociates.com>
Message-ID: <36206BA0-7C1F-4D7F-B12B-E2A5AFD7AD19@Damon-family.org>

In the list options, Privacy / Sender filters there is an option "Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined", set that to discard, and unless the post matches some other filter, it will be automatically discarded.  If you have command line access (which it sounds like you do), I think you can change the order these are tested, letting this filter discard them before the spam filters, which might mark the message Hold.

On Mar 20, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Dan Young <dan at prowebassociates.com> wrote:

> 
> I have the lists/members on 2.19 version of mailman imported nightly
> via automated command line text file import.
> 
> I get numerous spam posts that get sent to me from bogus addresses for approval
> daily. Can I set this to only allow members postings and just delete any others
> without me doing manually?
> 
> Took a couple years for it to become a headache, wanted to make sure I do
> properly since other than that is working great,
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan Young
> 
> -- 
> ProWeb Associates, Inc. <http://www.ProWebAssociates.com>
> Phone: 717-207-7125 ext 101
> Toll-Free: 1-800-892-5136 ext 101
> Fax: 1 (717) 327-4010
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/richard%40damon-family.org

From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Mar 20 16:39:16 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:39:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
Message-ID: <5149D824.8020208@free.fr>

Hello,

I have a list of mail adresses in

accept_these_nonmembers

filter

but mail coming from these people do not reach the list, but are sent 
to moderation

what do I have to do?

thanks
jdd
NB: version 2.1.14
-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 20 17:00:29 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:00:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <5149D824.8020208@free.fr>
Message-ID: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>

jdd wrote:
>
>I have a list of mail adresses in
>
>accept_these_nonmembers
>
>filter
>
>but mail coming from these people do not reach the list, but are sent 
>to moderation


The *_these_nonmembers filters match the string or regexp against the
'sender' of the post. This is determined as follows:

        This can return either the From: header, the Sender: header or
the
        envelope header (a.k.a. the unixfrom header).  The first
non-empty
        header value found is returned.  However the search order is
        determined by the following:

        - If mm_cfg.USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is true, then the search order
is
          Sender:, From:, unixfrom

        - Otherwise, the search order is From:, Sender:, unixfrom


I.e., if mm_cfg.USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is true and the post contains a
Sender: header with an address different from the From: address, it is
the Sender: address that is matched against the *_these_nonmembers
lists.

If that's not the explanation, what exactly do you have in
accept_these_nonmembers?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jdanield at free.fr  Wed Mar 20 19:46:19 2013
From: jdanield at free.fr (jdd)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:46:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <514A03FB.4080605@free.fr>

Le 20/03/2013 17:00, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

> If that's not the explanation, what exactly do you have in
> accept_these_nonmembers?
>
only a list of mail adresses.

But I don't know what happen. I just tried (with my wife's email) and 
the mechanism worked perfectly: the first mail got moderated (I'm the 
moderator) and the second reach the list without moderation as expected.

so the problem may be only with this particular user. I have to wait 
for the next failure. But then what will I have exactly to look at, 
and first where is the source mail stored? oir is the headers in the 
moderation message enough?

thanks
jdd

-- 
http://www.dodin.org
http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 20 20:23:28 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:23:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept not accepeted
In-Reply-To: <514A03FB.4080605@free.fr>
References: <PC199320130320090029089724adbb5e@Notebook-09>
	<514A03FB.4080605@free.fr>
Message-ID: <514A0CB0.4050807@msapiro.net>

On 03/20/2013 11:46 AM, jdd wrote:
> 
> so the problem may be only with this particular user. I have to wait for
> the next failure. But then what will I have exactly to look at, and
> first where is the source mail stored? oir is the headers in the
> moderation message enough?


The headers in the admindb interface detail page are enough (click the
message # link on the summary listing).

look at From: and Sender:, but actually the address in the
From:user at example.com heading in the Held Messages section of the
admindb page or the email notification will tell you the address that
was not matched against accept_these_nonmembers. From: and Sender:
should tell you where it came from.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Thu Mar 21 17:51:39 2013
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:51:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multi-lingual confirmation messages
Message-ID: <p0624083dcd70e7621af3@[192.168.201.53]>

Hi All --
--
Platform: Mailman 2.1.11, OS X, self-hosted server
--
Question: 
--
I have a question about the confirmation messages that Mailman sends (e.g. please click on the link below or reply to this message....) as a result of the setting subscribe_policy = "Confirm"

My separately coded subscriber list management PHP page sends list commands on users behalf, a la 

TO: list-name-request at domain.tld
BODY: subscribe <password> <digest|nodigest> address=user at other_domain.tld

to a list that has both Russian and English as selected languages (English is default).

We'd like to help our Russian-speaking subscribers follow-through on the confirmation message, which is being sent in English.

Ideally, I think I'd like the list confirmation message sent in BOTH Russian and English, since we clearly have a mix of subscribers in both languages, and I don't want to terrify the English-speakers either.
--
Resolutions:
--
If I understand correctly, changing the default language for the list would change the confirmation message to Russian (only).  Is that true?

My PHP code immediately sends a primary acknowledgement back to the subscriber that I can edit myself, and I can certainly make the 'Welcome' message appear however I like from the Mailman administration pages, but what help is there for the confirmation message itself?
--

TIA,
Drew Tenenholz

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 21 18:37:12 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:37:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multi-lingual confirmation messages
In-Reply-To: <p0624083dcd70e7621af3@[192.168.201.53]>
References: <p0624083dcd70e7621af3@[192.168.201.53]>
Message-ID: <514B4548.8020402@msapiro.net>

On 03/21/2013 09:51 AM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:
> 
> My separately coded subscriber list management PHP page sends list commands on users behalf, a la 
> 
> TO: list-name-request at domain.tld
> BODY: subscribe <password> <digest|nodigest> address=user at other_domain.tld
> 
> to a list that has both Russian and English as selected languages (English is default).
[...]
> If I understand correctly, changing the default language for the list would change the confirmation message to Russian (only).  Is that true?


Correct.


> My PHP code immediately sends a primary acknowledgement back to the subscriber that I can edit myself, and I can certainly make the 'Welcome' message appear however I like from the Mailman administration pages, but what help is there for the confirmation message itself?


The email subscribe command you're using doesn't allow a language
specification, but if instead of sending email from your PHP code you
POST to the subscribe CGI, you can specify the user's preferred language
in the POST data (or query fragments in a GET).

Alternatively, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> about making
list specific edited templates. You could make a Russian template that
includes both Russian and English and set the list's default language to
Russian. Leaving the default language as English and making a dual
language English template is trickier because of character set issues
and would probably require setting the character set for English to utf-8.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dftonywhite at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 21:23:05 2013
From: dftonywhite at hotmail.com (Antonio Colin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:23:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with remove-members -f filename list
	command not working
Message-ID: <BLU175-W13AEC67AAE0321CFC43E7BA6D40@phx.gbl>


Hi guys, I am working with Mailman version 2.1.13-5 on Debian 6, kernel 2.6.32-5.
I have some lists configured and when I try to delete a user from one of them doing some of these:

$ echo "john.liman at aaamerica.comm.mx" | /usr/lib/mailman/bin/remove_members -f - gerencia
$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/remove_members -f archivo.txt Gerencia
$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/remove_members gerencia john.liman at aaamerica.com.mx
$ remove_members -n gerencia john.liman at aaamerica.com.mx

They don't work at all giving a prompt waiting for input. And it ends only when I press ^C 
(throwing a traceback which I posted here: http://pastebin.com/jt8C3Qjq ) or ^Z. 
^D does nothing. I got help from a mailman user on #mailman and he set up a fake user account 
and executed my command to deleted and he managed to delete it after pressing ^D which won't 
work in my case. 

Mailman logs in /var/log got nothing, not even some text on them. I would definitely appreciate any help

Tony.
 		 	   		  

From seb at exse.net  Fri Mar 22 16:57:19 2013
From: seb at exse.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_B=F6hm?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:57:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on https
Message-ID: <4151BE6F-027B-418C-850F-BAD94FF16FB8@exse.net>

Hi,

I host mailman on a https webserver.

in my mm_cfg.py you will therefore find: 
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

but on some pages you will still find : http://<domain>/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/intern in the html sourcecode. the relative urls work, but some urls in the html sourcecode contain the hostname und the all use http instead of https.
For this reason I cannot use mailman on https because it tries to submit forms to a http server , which does not exsist.

Do I make a mistake here?

/sebastian


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 22 23:34:53 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:34:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on https
In-Reply-To: <4151BE6F-027B-418C-850F-BAD94FF16FB8@exse.net>
References: <4151BE6F-027B-418C-850F-BAD94FF16FB8@exse.net>
Message-ID: <514CDC8D.50903@msapiro.net>

On 3/22/2013 8:57 AM, Sebastian B?hm wrote:
> 
> in my mm_cfg.py you will therefore find: 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
> 
> but on some pages you will still find : http://<domain>/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/intern in the html sourcecode. the relative urls work, but some urls in the html sourcecode contain the hostname und the all use http instead of https.
> For this reason I cannot use mailman on https because it tries to submit forms to a http server , which does not exsist.
> 
> Do I make a mistake here?


You omitted a step. See step 3 in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9> and the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 22 23:40:58 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:40:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with remove-members -f filename list
 command not working
In-Reply-To: <BLU175-W13AEC67AAE0321CFC43E7BA6D40@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU175-W13AEC67AAE0321CFC43E7BA6D40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <514CDDFA.3090508@msapiro.net>

On 3/22/2013 1:23 PM, Antonio Colin wrote:
> 
> They don't work at all giving a prompt waiting for input. And it ends only when I press ^C 
> (throwing a traceback which I posted here: http://pastebin.com/jt8C3Qjq ) or ^Z.


The traceback you posted shows the command is not waiting for input but
for some other processes list lock to be relinquished. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From nxnw at rogers.com  Sat Mar 23 23:40:27 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:40:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
Message-ID: <7A48D2E5-B962-402E-9F08-2116C0C5C9F9@rogers.com>

I tried the instructions on http://www.livetime.com/mountain-lion-mailman-mailing-list/  to install mailman on 10.8 server, but have hit a snag. The build seemed to go perfectly, but the change to the httpd_server_app.conf file breaks apache. Previously, the OS X wiki service was working properly, but after the change, the system log shows apache failing to launch and a failed spawn every 10 seconds. When I comment out the change to httpd_server_app.conf, everything is back to normal.  

Help?

The change to httpd_server_app.conf is: Include /private/etc/apache2/extra/httpd-mailman.conf 

The content of /private/etc/apache2/extra/httpd-mailman.conf is:

# Config file for linking the mailman mailing list manager to MacOSX Server Web Server.
#
 
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
Alias /icons/ "/usr/local/mailman/icons/"
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
    Options FollowSymLinks MultiViews Indexes
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

Allan



From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 24 03:31:30 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:31:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
In-Reply-To: <7A48D2E5-B962-402E-9F08-2116C0C5C9F9@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>

Allan Herman wrote:

>I tried the instructions on http://www.livetime.com/mountain-lion-mailman-mailing-list/  to install mailman on 10.8 server, but have hit a snag. The build seemed to go perfectly, but the change to the httpd_server_app.conf file breaks apache.


Have you seen our FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9>? It doesn't have
Mountain Lion specific information, but it covers installation of the
source distribution of Gnu Mailman on Mac OS X which is what we
recommend.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 26 02:42:11 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:42:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log access on cPanel
Message-ID: <5150FCF3.8030109@msapiro.net>

Many cPanel Mailman users have issues that are difficult to resolve
because they don't have access to Mailman's logs. I spoke with a cPanel
developer about this at PyCon, and he has created a feature request at
<http://features.cpanel.net/responses/as-a-web-site-owner-i-need-access-to-a-mailman-listss-log-files-in-order-to-troubleshoot>.

If you are interested in this, go to the above URL and vote for it.
Voting requires registration on the site and that requires providing
your name and email address and then waiting for a password to be
mailed, but apparently anyone can do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bob.reap at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 18:22:50 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:22:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing persistent lock error
 (IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2mmKumy=j5gOcYCbBTBtLFZgyKWyU67S4O_hh3SSzgCPw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks - I keep getting my mailman cron throwing and emailing me
consistent errors:


[somelist and myhost redacted...]


Example 1:

Subject: Cron <list at myhost> [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 224, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 150, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.24422.0'

======

Example 2:


Cron <list at myhost> [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 86, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.21892.0'

======

Example 3:


Cron <list at myhost> [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 106, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
    mlist.Lock()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.31648.0'



--


This seems to be the only list (of nearly 200) that throws this error.

The installation is running on an Ubuntu server per instructions here:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman

I checked and fixed permissions:

sudo check_perms -f

I deleted and recreated the list:

sudo config_list -o somelist.cfg somelist;
sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/rmlist -a somelist;
sudo newlist somelist listmgr at mydomain.com mypasswd;
sudo config_list -i somelist.cfg somelist;

But the problem persists.  Any suggestions?

From javad at iranravi.com  Tue Mar 26 01:35:52 2013
From: javad at iranravi.com (Javad Hoseini)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:05:52 +0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Farsi characters
Message-ID: <001e01ce29b9$e0e42620$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>

Hi there everybody
In my mailman administration control panel, I tried to add some Farsi text to the welcome message, because mailman does not have any 
Farsi interface. I added something like this:
??? ?????.

But mailman sends only some peculiar numbers and letters instead of Farsi text. It writes something like this in the beginning of 
welcome email:
29 at 592&625&2wfo

Why is that? How can I solve this?


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 26 20:04:00 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:04:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing persistent lock
	error(IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2mmKumy=j5gOcYCbBTBtLFZgyKWyU67S4O_hh3SSzgCPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303261204000000158eb600@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:

>Hi folks - I keep getting my mailman cron throwing and emailing me
>consistent errors:
>
>
>[somelist and myhost redacted...]
>
>
>Example 1:
>
[...]
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.24422.0'
[...]
>
>This seems to be the only list (of nearly 200) that throws this error.
>
>The installation is running on an Ubuntu server per instructions here:
>
>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman


There's a FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD> on that ;)

>I checked and fixed permissions:


The error says that some directory in the path
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.24422.0' doesn't exist.
Unless either 'somelist' or 'myhost' contains a '/' which shouldn't be
possible, that means one of the directories in the path
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/' which again seems unlikely given that other
lists work.

What is the contents of the '/var/lib/mailman/locks/' directory? If
Mailman is quiet, it should be only master-qrunner and
master-qrunner.HOST.PID.

Also see <http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 26 21:27:30 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:27:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Farsi characters
In-Reply-To: <001e01ce29b9$e0e42620$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
References: <001e01ce29b9$e0e42620$0301a8c0@home3c459be30f>
Message-ID: <515204B2.2000209@msapiro.net>

On 3/25/2013 5:35 PM, Javad Hoseini wrote:
> 
> But mailman sends only some peculiar numbers and letters instead of Farsi text. It writes something like this in the beginning of 
> welcome email:
> 29 at 592&625&2wfo


It's hard to see without seeing the actual welcome email message, but my
guess is that the welcome message specifies the character set of the
body as one which doesn't support the Farsi characters, e.g. an English
language list with character set us-ascii, but possibly some other
language with a non-utf-8 character set.

If it is English and us-ascii and you have sufficient access to the
Mailman installation, you can change the character set to utf-8 as
outlined in the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-March/071320.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bob.reap at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 15:09:25 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:09:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing persistent lock
 error(IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303261204000000158eb600@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAOTNx2mmKumy=j5gOcYCbBTBtLFZgyKWyU67S4O_hh3SSzgCPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303261204000000158eb600@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2mNXPV+n6SZcrS-saTyRXGTvdCE_x9ckMU9oO2HkaYF=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Bob R wrote:
> >  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
> >    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
> >IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
> >'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.24422.0'
>
> The error says that some directory in the path
> '/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.myhost.24422.0' doesn't exist.
> Unless either 'somelist' or 'myhost' contains a '/' which shouldn't be
> possible, that means one of the directories in the path
> '/var/lib/mailman/locks/' which again seems unlikely given that other
> lists work.
>
> What is the contents of the '/var/lib/mailman/locks/' directory? If
> Mailman is quiet, it should be only master-qrunner and
> master-qrunner.HOST.PID.
>
> That seems to be all that is there:

$ ll /var/lib/mailman/locks/
total 8
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  80 Mar 26 12:22 ./
drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
-rw-rw-r-- 2 list list  61 Mar 27  2013 master-qrunner
-rw-rw-r-- 2 list list  61 Mar 27  2013 master-qrunner.mydomain.com.3488

From ron at crump.me.uk  Tue Mar 26 22:05:28 2013
From: ron at crump.me.uk (Ron Crump)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:05:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Diagnosing Uncaught bounce notification
Message-ID: <51520D98.5020908@crump.me.uk>

Hi,

One member of one of our mailing lists is continually
resulting in an Uncaught bounce notification when he
mails to the list.

The same address is working fine subscribed to a
second list (which has a smaller membership, a subset
of the main list).

I've never really understood the Uncaught bounce
notification messages, and am hoping to get some guidance
on how to diagnose and address the problem.

Cheers,
Ron Crump.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 27 19:10:24 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Diagnosing Uncaught bounce notification
In-Reply-To: <51520D98.5020908@crump.me.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303271110240359f48fe77f@MSAPIRO>

Ron Crump wrote:
>
>One member of one of our mailing lists is continually
>resulting in an Uncaught bounce notification when he
>mails to the list.


I'm guessing you mean that instead of his post going to the list, it
results in an uncaught bounce notification to the list owner
containing his attempted post.

If that's correct, he's sending his post to the LISTNAME-bounces at ...
address instead of to LISTNAME at ... . He probably has that address in
his address book, or perhaps he's replying to posts and using MS
Outlook or similar which is replying to the Sender: instead of the
From:. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.


>I've never really understood the Uncaught bounce
>notification messages, and am hoping to get some guidance
>on how to diagnose and address the problem.


Uncaught bounces are messages sent to the LISTNAME-bounces at ... address
which are not in the standard DSN format nor one of the many
non-standard formats which Mailman recognizes.

If they look like real non-delivery notices, they should be posted to
this list (mailman-users at python.org) so the recognizers can be updated
to recognize them, but often they are just spam or misdirected posts
sent to the LISTNAME-bounces at ... address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 27 19:29:51 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:29:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing persistent
	lockerror(IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2mNXPV+n6SZcrS-saTyRXGTvdCE_x9ckMU9oO2HkaYF=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013032711295106097fa5c694@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:
>
>$ ll /var/lib/mailman/locks/
>total 8
>drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  80 Mar 26 12:22 ./
>drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
>-rw-rw-r-- 2 list list  61 Mar 27  2013 master-qrunner
>-rw-rw-r-- 2 list list  61 Mar 27  2013 master-qrunner.mydomain.com.3488


That's a bit unusual.

drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../

refers to the /var/lib/mailman/ directory. I would expect it to be

drwxrwsr-x 5 root list 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../

however, I don't think that would cause this issue.

Is it only cron jobs that have this issue? Are they running as user
'list' (they should be). does 'somelist' work normally otherwise? Can
you access its web admin interface?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob.reap at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 00:07:52 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:07:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing persistent
 lockerror(IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013032711295106097fa5c694@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAOTNx2mNXPV+n6SZcrS-saTyRXGTvdCE_x9ckMU9oO2HkaYF=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013032711295106097fa5c694@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2meRnX14RXiTr9fV=yrm6veWZ2hrk3WLPhMmKPQtFwpaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Bob R wrote:
> >
> >$ ll /var/lib/mailman/locks/
> >total 8
> >drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  80 Mar 26 12:22 ./
> >drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
> >-rw-rw-r-- 2 list list  61 Mar 27  2013 master-qrunner
> >-rw-rw-r-- 2 list list  61 Mar 27  2013 master-qrunner.mydomain.com.3488
>
>
> That's a bit unusual.
>
> drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
>
> refers to the /var/lib/mailman/ directory. I would expect it to be
>
> drwxrwsr-x 5 root list 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
>
> however, I don't think that would cause this issue.
>
> Is it only cron jobs that have this issue? Are they running as user
> 'list' (they should be). does 'somelist' work normally otherwise? Can
> you access its web admin interface?
>

Cron jobs are run as the user listed after the date code, correct?  Thus
"lists" is the user the scripts run under - here is the mailman cron...

/etc/cron.d$ sudo cat mailman
# At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
# They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
# early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
0 8 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
#
# At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be
# reminded to re-enable their accounts.
0 9 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
#
# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshold
delivery.
0 12 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
#
# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
#
. . .
# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
#
# At 4:30AM daily, cull old entries from the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues.
30 4 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/cull_bad_shunt ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/cull_bad_shunt


The interface for the list works perfectly.

I have "rmlist -a" the list and rebuilt it, and mailman functions perfectly
for list mail.

I removed the sticky bit on /var/lib/mailman (and /locks) but the command
still failed:

$ sudo -u list  [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 86, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.mydomain.com.27297.0'


"Permission denied..."  The error seems pretty straightforward, what is it
looking for, and why wouldn't check_perms catch it?

-br

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 01:12:43 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing
	persistentlockerror(IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2meRnX14RXiTr9fV=yrm6veWZ2hrk3WLPhMmKPQtFwpaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303271712430765e70c6528@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:
>
>On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> That's a bit unusual.
>>
>> drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
>>
>> refers to the /var/lib/mailman/ directory. I would expect it to be
>>
>> drwxrwsr-x 5 root list 100 Mar 26 07:33 ../
>>
>> however, I don't think that would cause this issue.
>>
>> Is it only cron jobs that have this issue? Are they running as user
>> 'list' (they should be). does 'somelist' work normally otherwise? Can
>> you access its web admin interface?
>>
>
>Cron jobs are run as the user listed after the date code, correct?  Thus
>"lists" is the user the scripts run under - here is the mailman cron...


Yes, that's correct.


>/etc/cron.d$ sudo cat mailman
># At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
># They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
># early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
>0 8 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs


Entries like this look OK.


>The interface for the list works perfectly.
>
>I have "rmlist -a" the list and rebuilt it, and mailman functions perfectly
>for list mail.
>
>I removed the sticky bit on /var/lib/mailman (and /locks) but the command
>still failed:


There was no sticky bit on locks/ - it was a SETGID bit and should be
set.

chgrp list /var/lib/mailman
chmod 2775 /var/lib/mailman
chmod 2775 /var/lib/mailman/locks


>$ sudo -u list  [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.mydomain.com.27297.0'


This is a new error. Previously it wasn't permission denied.

Do the above chgrp and chmod commands
>
>"Permission denied..."  The error seems pretty straightforward, what is it
>looking for, and why wouldn't check_perms catch it?


check_perms isn't perfect, but did youi run it after changing mode bits?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob.reap at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 01:26:55 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:26:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing
 persistentlockerror(IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303271712430765e70c6528@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAOTNx2meRnX14RXiTr9fV=yrm6veWZ2hrk3WLPhMmKPQtFwpaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303271712430765e70c6528@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2kCoXUZOrfzyME-zMmxEpzVKppAE+9402SAU+rUjuTZFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Bob R wrote:
> >I removed the sticky bit on /var/lib/mailman (and /locks) but the command
> >still failed:
>
>
> There was no sticky bit on locks/ - it was a SETGID bit and should be
> set.
>
> chgrp list /var/lib/mailman
> chmod 2775 /var/lib/mailman
> chmod 2775 /var/lib/mailman/locks
>
>
> >$ sudo -u list  [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
> >/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> [...]
> >    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> >'/var/lib/mailman/locks/somelist.lock.mydomain.com.27297.0'
>
>
> This is a new error. Previously it wasn't permission denied.
>

Possibly because the other errors were reported by cron vie email, and the
above was running the cron sequence by the command line?



>
> Do the above chgrp and chmod commands
> >
> >"Permission denied..."  The error seems pretty straightforward, what is it
> >looking for, and why wouldn't check_perms catch it?
>
>
> check_perms isn't perfect, but did youi run it after changing mode bits?



I ran the chmod and chgroup cmmands as suggested, and ran check_perms
before and after - it reports no problems.

Running the cron from the command line still creates the error as
described, but I may have wrongly assumed that replicated the conditions
from the cron.  ???


I appreciate your assistance with this...

br

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 01:56:34 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:56:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing
	persistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2kCoXUZOrfzyME-zMmxEpzVKppAE+9402SAU+rUjuTZFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013032717563403757907e799@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:
>
>Possibly because the other errors were reported by cron vie email, and the
>above was running the cron sequence by the command line?


Not likely as you ran the command from the command line as user 'list'
and it runs via cron as user 'list'.

What does

groups list

give? what do

ls -l -d /var
ls -l -d /var/lib
ls -l -d /var/lib/mailman
ls -l -d /var/lib/mailman/locks

give? Do you have SELinux or some other security manager enabled?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 02:18:17 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:18:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
	throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno 2] No such file or
	directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013032717563403757907e799@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303271818170953300a27ca@MSAPIRO>

Another thought.

If you temporarily move the /var/lib/mailman/lists/somelist/ directory
out of the /var/lib/mailman/lists/ directory and then run the

sudo -u list  [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

command, does it succeed or does it fail on the next list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob.reap at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 02:19:06 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:19:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing
 persistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC19932013032717563403757907e799@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAOTNx2kCoXUZOrfzyME-zMmxEpzVKppAE+9402SAU+rUjuTZFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19932013032717563403757907e799@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2=dhmn6BG3O4O7xk7+Mxr-ycoqEtAgrbPSc4jO=5dBGRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> What does
>
> groups list
>
> give? what do
>
> ls -l -d /var
> ls -l -d /var/lib
> ls -l -d /var/lib/mailman
> ls -l -d /var/lib/mailman/locks
>
> give?


$ sudo groups list
list : list

$ ls -l -d /var; ls -l -d /var/lib; ls -l -d /var/lib/mailman; ls -l -d
/var/lib/mailman/locks
drwxr-xr-x 13 root root 4096 Mar 24 09:23 /var
drwxr-xr-x 43 root root 4096 Jan 20 08:41 /var/lib
drwxrwsr-x 8 root list 4096 Jan 15 06:48 /var/lib/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root list 17 Jul 17  2012 /var/lib/mailman/locks ->
/var/lock/mailman




> Do you have SELinux or some other security manager enabled?
>

No, I didn't install that (I don't think that program is even compatible
with the Ubuntu LTS)....

Bob R

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 02:22:13 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:22:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron throwing
	persistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2=dhmn6BG3O4O7xk7+Mxr-ycoqEtAgrbPSc4jO=5dBGRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013032718221306872e5b4cbc@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:
>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root list 17 Jul 17  2012 /var/lib/mailman/locks ->
>/var/lock/mailman


What about

ls -ld /var/lock/mailman

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob.reap at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 03:01:10 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:01:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
 throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno 2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303271818170953300a27ca@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19932013032717563403757907e799@MSAPIRO>
	<PC1993201303271818170953300a27ca@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2nQy-zQ-xgCL0C8VwBb=rxsB_2E12m90OB0+ddOaOZVWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Another thought.
>
> If you temporarily move the /var/lib/mailman/lists/somelist/ directory
> out of the /var/lib/mailman/lists/ directory and then run the
>
> sudo -u list  [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
> command, does it succeed or does it fail on the next list?
>
>

I short-circuited the cron to run now, and it does indeed move on to the
next list:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in <module>
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 86, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/differentlist.lock.mydomain.com.1200.0'


(Note that the cron email reports a different error than the command line,
as you noted, so the environment obviously is not quite the same.  But I
did run the checkdbs from the command line, and like the cron script it
also moves on to the next list before it reports an error.)

> What about
>
> ls -ld /var/lock/mailman

:/www/lists/conf$ ls -ld /var/lock/mailman
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 80 Mar 27 18:31 /var/lock/mailman


Bob R

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 03:09:36 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:09:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
	throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno2] No such file or
	directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2nQy-zQ-xgCL0C8VwBb=rxsB_2E12m90OB0+ddOaOZVWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303271909360765cd3bc121@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:
>
>I short-circuited the cron to run now, and it does indeed move on to the
>next list:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 86, in main
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>    self.Lock()
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
>    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
>    self.__write()
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/locks/differentlist.lock.mydomain.com.1200.0'


OK. so none of the crons are able to create locks for any list.
Although it's puzzling why it's error 2 when run by cron and error 13
when run from the command line as the same user.


>:/www/lists/conf$ ls -ld /var/lock/mailman
>drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 80 Mar 27 18:31 /var/lock/mailman


How about

ls -ld /var/lock

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob.reap at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 03:24:31 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:24:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
 throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303271909360765cd3bc121@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAOTNx2nQy-zQ-xgCL0C8VwBb=rxsB_2E12m90OB0+ddOaOZVWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303271909360765cd3bc121@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2m0tvi_0iH3SccQeHaqLr2Q3Bus-Mw3on5iboLmFZeMJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:How
about

> ls -ld /var/lock
>
>
$ ls -ld /var/lock
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 May  1  2012 /var/lock -> /run/lock

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 03:28:19 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:28:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
 throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2m0tvi_0iH3SccQeHaqLr2Q3Bus-Mw3on5iboLmFZeMJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOTNx2nQy-zQ-xgCL0C8VwBb=rxsB_2E12m90OB0+ddOaOZVWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303271909360765cd3bc121@MSAPIRO>
	<CAOTNx2m0tvi_0iH3SccQeHaqLr2Q3Bus-Mw3on5iboLmFZeMJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5153AAC3.6020101@msapiro.net>

On 3/27/2013 7:24 PM, Bob R wrote:
>
> $ ls -ld /var/lock
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 May  1  2012 /var/lock -> /run/lock

and /run and /run/lock ?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bob.reap at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 03:55:05 2013
From: bob.reap at gmail.com (Bob R)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:55:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
 throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno2] No such file or directory...)
In-Reply-To: <5153AAC3.6020101@msapiro.net>
References: <CAOTNx2nQy-zQ-xgCL0C8VwBb=rxsB_2E12m90OB0+ddOaOZVWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303271909360765cd3bc121@MSAPIRO>
	<CAOTNx2m0tvi_0iH3SccQeHaqLr2Q3Bus-Mw3on5iboLmFZeMJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5153AAC3.6020101@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAOTNx2==v_sU0a61b6=ar8BBZQhivNjy7+dOoJ_=FCpKWTHeVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/27/2013 7:24 PM, Bob R wrote:
> >
> > $ ls -ld /var/lock
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 May  1  2012 /var/lock -> /run/lock
>
> and /run and /run/lock ?
>

$ ls -ld /run/lock; ls -ld /run
drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 27 19:49 /run/lock
drwxr-xr-x 21 root root 780 Mar 27 19:53 /run

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 05:16:05 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 21:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron
	throwingpersistentlockerror(IOError:[Errno2]No such file or
	directory...)
In-Reply-To: <CAOTNx2==v_sU0a61b6=ar8BBZQhivNjy7+dOoJ_=FCpKWTHeVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303272116050187717624c0@MSAPIRO>

Bob R wrote:
>
>$ ls -ld /run/lock; ls -ld /run
>drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 100 Mar 27 19:49 /run/lock
>drwxr-xr-x 21 root root 780 Mar 27 19:53 /run


OK, I'm grasping at straws here, but the issue appears to be that the
'list:list' user:group can't create files in /var/lib/mailman/locks,
aka /run/lock, but Mailman's qrunners and web cgi's are able to do so.

what does

ps -fAw | grep qrunner

and

ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin

give? The qrunner processes should be user 'list' and the wrappers in
cgi-bin should be group 'list' and SETGID. is that the case or are
they some other user:group?

Also, I think if you do

sudo -u list touch /var/lib/mailman/locks/test_file

or create an entry in /etc/cron.d/mailman that runs

0,10,20,30,40,50 * * * * list touch /var/lib/mailman/locks/test_file

(i.e. runs the touch command every 10 minutes), you will see the same
errors. If this is the case, figure out why. I suspect some security
manager must be involved as all the permissions on the directories
should allow it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hone at ohio.edu  Thu Mar 28 14:45:08 2013
From: hone at ohio.edu (Hone, Don)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:45:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] zero length .pck files
Message-ID: <05D7DE477FE818429792EFFFC43DEBB41942B0C2DA@EXMAIL1.ohio.edu>

In /var/lib/mailman/data there are some bounce-events*.pck files that are zero length. Is it safe to delete these? Is there some process that should be cleaning them up?

In the same directory are old heldmsg-*.pck files. I can go into each mailing list and change the max_days_to_hold from 0 to something. I?m guessing that will clear it up. Is there an easier way? Should all lists have a non-zero number for that value? What is the best practice?

Don Hone
Office of Information Technology
Ohio University


From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 14:53:09 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 06:53:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
Message-ID: <CAA13W+-Wb77-c3jehT3ehz1iLADbqX-ma8j1-Q0vpzVYkmWukQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Confirmation messages sent to users are being sent successfully. Messages
intended as approval for subscriptions and sent to the list administrators
are not being sent. They appear as 'held subscription' in the mail logs.

The list has the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. The cron /cron/checkdbs
runs every morning at 8 am.

I have read of possible Handler exceptions in Mailman, but the error logs
don't show anything.

What else could I look for to diagnose this problem?

Thank you.


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 19:47:56 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 11:47:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] zero length .pck files
In-Reply-To: <05D7DE477FE818429792EFFFC43DEBB41942B0C2DA@EXMAIL1.ohio.edu>
References: <05D7DE477FE818429792EFFFC43DEBB41942B0C2DA@EXMAIL1.ohio.edu>
Message-ID: <5154905C.1030704@msapiro.net>

On 3/28/2013 6:45 AM, Hone, Don wrote:
> In /var/lib/mailman/data there are some bounce-events*.pck files that are zero length. Is it safe to delete these? Is there some process that should be cleaning them up?


Yes, it is safe to delete them. The digits in the
bounce-events-ddddd.pck name are the PID of the BounceRunner that
created it. If that runner is no longer running, nothing will remove the
orphaned file.

The creation of zero length files is really a bug which I think I can
fix, but crashes and other anomalies can also leave orphaned
bounce-events files.


> In the same directory are old heldmsg-*.pck files. I can go into each mailing list and change the max_days_to_hold from 0 to something. I?m guessing that will clear it up. Is there an easier way? Should all lists have a non-zero number for that value? What is the best practice?


Use bin/discard to remove them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 28 21:10:28 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 13:10:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+-Wb77-c3jehT3ehz1iLADbqX-ma8j1-Q0vpzVYkmWukQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303281310280921268be9b5@MSAPIRO>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>Confirmation messages sent to users are being sent successfully. Messages
>intended as approval for subscriptions and sent to the list administrators
>are not being sent. They appear as 'held subscription' in the mail logs.


Are you saying that you see a 'held subscription' message in Mailman's
'vette' log?

Do the held subscriptions appear in the web admindb interface?


>The list has the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. The cron /cron/checkdbs
>runs every morning at 8 am.


Does the held subscription appear in the daily summary of moderator
requests?

Is the listname-owner address deliverable? Is mail to that address
delivered to the list's owner and moderator addresses?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Mar 29 00:33:50 2013
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:33:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303281310280921268be9b5@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAA13W+-Wb77-c3jehT3ehz1iLADbqX-ma8j1-Q0vpzVYkmWukQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1993201303281310280921268be9b5@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAA13W+_NuGdcz4bp365UWA5mTxCdKD0rr3hVaLebQy_d6yDjVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> >Confirmation messages sent to users are being sent successfully. Messages
> >intended as approval for subscriptions and sent to the list administrators
> >are not being sent. They appear as 'held subscription' in the mail logs.
>
>
> Are you saying that you see a 'held subscription' message in Mailman's
> 'vette' log?
>

Yes, it shows in the vette.log as being held.



>
> Do the held subscriptions appear in the web admindb interface?
>
>
> >The list has the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. The cron
> /cron/checkdbs
> >runs every morning at 8 am.
>
>
> Does the held subscription appear in the daily summary of moderator
> requests?
>

Yes, it is sent successfully every morning at 8 am. Until I get this fixed,
I have increased this to every 2 hrs.


>
> Is the listname-owner address deliverable? Is mail to that address
> delivered to the list's owner and moderator addresses?
>


Yes, I can send directly to the list owner address and to the actual
person's address.




-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 29 01:25:46 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:25:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent
In-Reply-To: <CAA13W+_NuGdcz4bp365UWA5mTxCdKD0rr3hVaLebQy_d6yDjVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303281725460500ab922622@MSAPIRO>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> Are you saying that you see a 'held subscription' message in Mailman's
>> 'vette' log?
>>
>
>Yes, it shows in the vette.log as being held.
>
>
>
>>
>> Do the held subscriptions appear in the web admindb interface?
>>
>>
>> >The list has the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. The cron
>> /cron/checkdbs
>> >runs every morning at 8 am.
>>
>>
>> Does the held subscription appear in the daily summary of moderator
>> requests?
>>
>
>Yes, it is sent successfully every morning at 8 am. Until I get this fixed,
>I have increased this to every 2 hrs.


The notice to the owner(s)/moderator(s) is sent by the same process
immediately following writing the vette log entry contingent only on
admin_immed_notify being True.

The message is sent From: and To: the listname-owner address with
envelope from the listname-bounces address.

Check Mailman's smtp log for entries with the same or perhaps + 1 or 2
seconds time stamp as the vette log entry. There should be a send for
1 recip for the list followed immediately by a send for a number of
recips = to the number of owner(s)/moderator(s). Do you see these? How
about in the MTA logs?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nxnw at rogers.com  Fri Mar 29 22:32:54 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:32:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <BDB0F959-B911-4FC8-9032-81CA8075CE68@rogers.com>

OK, here are steps taken for a (mostly) successful installation on Mountain Lion server, including migration from the apple-supplied mailman previously running under Lion.

Primarily, subject to the following comments, I followed the steps in the Snow Leopard instructions at this page: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg56963.html

In step 1, I will note that for ML, one would get XCode from the app store, rather than install developer tools. Also, as I was installing on OS X server, postfix was installed and running.

Steps 2 and 3, no changes.

Added step 3A to migrate data. When I upgraded from Lion Server to ML server, the installer moved my old mailman data to /Library/Server/Migrated/private/var/mailman/.
I copied over my existing data and configuration as follows:
sudo cp -a /Library/Server/Migrated/private/var/mailman/archives/* /usr/local/mailman/archives/
sudo cp -a /Library/Server/Migrated/private/var/mailman/data/* /usr/local/mailman/data/
sudo cp -a /Library/Server/Migrated/private/var/mailman/lists/* /usr/local/mailman/lists/
sudo cp -a /Library/Server/Migrated/private/var/mailman/qfiles/* /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/

Step 4 is significantly different, as the apache config files are changed in ML server. Here, I created the file /private/etc/apache2/extra/httpd-mailman.conf containing the following:

        ScriptAlias     /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
        Alias /pipermail/       /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
        Alias /icons/  /usr/local/mailman/icons/
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
Options FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

The above is substantially the same as the lines added to httpd.conf in the source instructions, except that it adds the alias for the icons. This alias is instead of copying the icons to /usr/share/httpd/icons, where apache won't find them in ML server.

Further, ML Server's apache does not use the httpd.conf file, but rather, /Library/Server/Web/Config/apache2/httpd_server_app.conf. In order to incorporate the configuration we put into the httpd-mailman.conf, above, httpd_server_app.conf is edited to add the following line:

#Mailman
Include /private/etc/apache2/extra/httpd-mailman.conf

I put the above right after "Include /Library/Server/Web/Config/apache2/other/*.conf"

4(e) re cron jobs was followed without change

In step 5, 
- the real main.cf file, under ML Server, is in /Library/Server/Mail/Config/postfix
- assuming postfix is running, you will already have something like "alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases" already. Don't change what you have already. Just tack on ",hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases" to it. Note the comma.

Step 6 followed

Step 7 unnecessary, because of the import

Step 8 followed.

With the exception of one small glitch, it seems to be working well.



On 03-23-2013, at 10:31 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Allan Herman wrote:
> 
>> I tried the instructions on http://www.livetime.com/mountain-lion-mailman-mailing-list/  to install mailman on 10.8 server, but have hit a snag. The build seemed to go perfectly, but the change to the httpd_server_app.conf file breaks apache.
> 
> 
> Have you seen our FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9>? It doesn't have
> Mountain Lion specific information, but it covers installation of the
> source distribution of Gnu Mailman on Mac OS X which is what we
> recommend.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From nxnw at rogers.com  Fri Mar 29 22:49:32 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:49:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration from Lion
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <DEC1B6AD-295C-489B-BF6F-1DF01FDB03E5@rogers.com>

I was able to install mailmain 2.1.15 and migrate my existing data after I upgraded my server from Lion to Mountain Lion, as detailed in http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg62432.html.

It's mostly fine, except that I can't send an email to mailman at mydomain. Postfix is rejecting the address. That is particularly odd, as I can send emails to mailman-requests at mydomain and to the various addresses associated with my other mailman list on the same server.

As such, it strikes me that this is an issue with mailman's aliases, rather than a postfix issue.

Any ideas?

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 29 22:56:28 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:56:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
In-Reply-To: <BDB0F959-B911-4FC8-9032-81CA8075CE68@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <PC199320130329145628017122d288c7@MSAPIRO>

Allan Herman wrote:

>OK, here are steps taken for a (mostly) successful installation on Mountain Lion server, including migration from the apple-supplied mailman previously running under Lion.


Thank you for posting this. I have linked this post from the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 29 23:04:41 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:04:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration from
	Lion
In-Reply-To: <DEC1B6AD-295C-489B-BF6F-1DF01FDB03E5@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303291504410015d9d4c638@MSAPIRO>

Allan Herman wrote:
>
>It's mostly fine, except that I can't send an email to mailman at mydomain. Postfix is rejecting the address.


What is the exact message from Postfix? The full log message from
Postfix's log rather than just the reason from the DSN would be most
helpful.


> That is particularly odd, as I can send emails to mailman-requests at mydomain and to the various addresses associated with my other mailman list on the same server.
>
>As such, it strikes me that this is an issue with mailman's aliases, rather than a postfix issue.


More likely it is some 'mailman' alias in another Postfix alias_maps
file or maybe a transport_maps file.

Just in case, what is the contents of /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nxnw at rogers.com  Fri Mar 29 23:26:05 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:26:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration from
	Lion
In-Reply-To: <PC1993201303291504410015d9d4c638@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1993201303291504410015d9d4c638@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <43F85714-7B71-4F31-9678-F3BF356F1689@rogers.com>

Here are the logs.

Mar 29 18:14:08 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/postscreen[2793]: PASS NEW [98.136.217.31]:34253
Mar 29 18:14:08 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: connect from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: sacl_check: mbr_user_name_to_uuid(mailman at yyyyyy.ca) failed: No such file or directory
Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: warning: recipient rejected <mailman> uid falls below minimum allowed: 78 < 501
Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]: 550 5.1.1 <mailman at yyyyyy.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<aaaaaaa at bbbbb.com> to=<mailman at yyyyyy.ca> proto=SMTP helo=<nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: disconnect from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]

Either there is no alias for mailman or postfix is identifying mailman with the user "mailman" before processing aliases. I though postfix precesses aliases first, however.

Here is the alias file:

# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
# binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mymailinglist
# CREATED: Fri Mar 29 14:31:02 2013
mymailinglist:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mymailinglist"
mymailinglist-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mymailinglist"
# STANZA END: mymailinglist

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Fri Mar 29 14:35:21 2013
mailman:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

On 03-29-2013, at 6:04 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Allan Herman wrote:
>> 
>> It's mostly fine, except that I can't send an email to mailman at mydomain. Postfix is rejecting the address.
> 
> 
> What is the exact message from Postfix? The full log message from
> Postfix's log rather than just the reason from the DSN would be most
> helpful.
> 
> 
>> That is particularly odd, as I can send emails to mailman-requests at mydomain and to the various addresses associated with my other mailman list on the same server.
>> 
>> As such, it strikes me that this is an issue with mailman's aliases, rather than a postfix issue.
> 
> 
> More likely it is some 'mailman' alias in another Postfix alias_maps
> file or maybe a transport_maps file.
> 
> Just in case, what is the contents of /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Mar 29 23:27:40 2013
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:27:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
In-Reply-To: <BDB0F959-B911-4FC8-9032-81CA8075CE68@rogers.com>
References: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>
	<BDB0F959-B911-4FC8-9032-81CA8075CE68@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4B908D94-7D35-481F-8798-896C9BDD7549@stonejongleux.com>


On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Allan Herman <nxnw at rogers.com> wrote:

> OK, here are steps taken for a (mostly) successful installation on Mountain Lion server, including migration from the apple-supplied mailman previously running under Lion.
> 
> Primarily, subject to the following comments, I followed the steps in the Snow Leopard instructions at this page: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg56963.html

As the author of the original, thank you for the update. Note that what I wrote was for OS X "client", not Server. But I am stuck for now at Lion and after one attempt on a test system, not sure I want to try to move my server beyond Lion. Apple has changed way too much in Mountain Lion - compatibility with previous OS versions is just not in Apple's goals (and it's the mail server piece that has stopped me - never even got to Mailman). 


-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 30 00:01:52 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:01:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration
	fromLion
In-Reply-To: <43F85714-7B71-4F31-9678-F3BF356F1689@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013032916015202966bd04b5c@MSAPIRO>

Allan Herman wrote:

>Here are the logs.
>
>Mar 29 18:14:08 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/postscreen[2793]: PASS NEW [98.136.217.31]:34253
>Mar 29 18:14:08 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: connect from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
>Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: sacl_check: mbr_user_name_to_uuid(mailman at yyyyyy.ca) failed: No such file or directory
>Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: warning: recipient rejected <mailman> uid falls below minimum allowed: 78 < 501
>Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]: 550 5.1.1 <mailman at yyyyyy.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<aaaaaaa at bbbbb.com> to=<mailman at yyyyyy.ca> proto=SMTP helo=<nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>Mar 29 18:14:09 xxxxx.yyyyyy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: disconnect from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
>
>Either there is no alias for mailman or postfix is identifying mailman with the user "mailman" before processing aliases. I though postfix precesses aliases first, however.


Clearly, Postfix is doing something to validate users way before alias
processing. Alias processing does not occur until the message is
accepted and queued and ready to be delivered by the 'local' transport.

What does 'postconf -n' show? In particular, what's
smtpd_recipient_restrictions?

Note that <http://www.google.com/#q=postfix+sacl_check> gets a ton of
Mac OS X Lion hits, but a cursory look didn't show much in the way of
solutions.

Whereas
<http://www.google.com/search?q=sacl&sitesearch=www.postfix.org> finds
nothing. Is this some Apple specific Postfix check?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sat Mar 30 14:55:35 2013
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 07:55:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM On Mailman
Message-ID: <22240C23-6865-4099-8792-0050E4A92880@mishmash.com>

      I have several lists that are receiving SPAM messages from multiple sources.  The lists do not forward them since I have it set not to.  

      But often I have to go through the process of manually deleting them from the queue and I get messages telling me how many messages are pending approval.  

      I ban the email addresses and set them to be auto discarded.  But the SPAMmers rarely use the same address twice.  

      Is there any way to set Mailman to just delete these messages rather than hold them for approval?  

      Regards,  



                                                                                Fred 

Sent from my iPad

From nxnw at rogers.com  Sat Mar 30 17:31:26 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 12:31:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM On Mailman
In-Reply-To: <22240C23-6865-4099-8792-0050E4A92880@mishmash.com>
References: <22240C23-6865-4099-8792-0050E4A92880@mishmash.com>
Message-ID: <51322B53-E158-4F18-B968-33D95AA8814C@rogers.com>

Why don't you just reject/discard all email unless it is from a subscriber?

On 03-30-2013, at 9:55 AM, Fred Atkinson <fatkinson at mishmash.com> wrote:

>      I have several lists that are receiving SPAM messages from multiple sources.  The lists do not forward them since I have it set not to.  
> 
>      But often I have to go through the process of manually deleting them from the queue and I get messages telling me how many messages are pending approval.  
> 
>      I ban the email addresses and set them to be auto discarded.  But the SPAMmers rarely use the same address twice.  
> 
>      Is there any way to set Mailman to just delete these messages rather than hold them for approval?  
> 
>      Regards,  
> 
> 
> 
>                                                                                Fred 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/nxnw%40rogers.com


From odhiambo at gmail.com  Sat Mar 30 17:33:34 2013
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:33:34 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM On Mailman
In-Reply-To: <22240C23-6865-4099-8792-0050E4A92880@mishmash.com>
References: <22240C23-6865-4099-8792-0050E4A92880@mishmash.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WM382esaveWjcDxqVxVyK7_r1w+6QGjmpr=m4aE-oO3iw@mail.gmail.com>

You just need to harden the spam filtering implementation on your SMTP
server. Mailman will NOT do it for you.


On 30 March 2013 16:55, Fred Atkinson <fatkinson at mishmash.com> wrote:

>       I have several lists that are receiving SPAM messages from multiple
> sources.  The lists do not forward them since I have it set not to.
>
>       But often I have to go through the process of manually deleting them
> from the queue and I get messages telling me how many messages are pending
> approval.
>
>       I ban the email addresses and set them to be auto discarded.  But
> the SPAMmers rarely use the same address twice.
>
>       Is there any way to set Mailman to just delete these messages rather
> than hold them for approval?
>
>       Regards,
>
>
>
>
>       Fred
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/odhiambo%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
"I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler."

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 30 17:38:59 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 09:38:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM On Mailman
In-Reply-To: <22240C23-6865-4099-8792-0050E4A92880@mishmash.com>
Message-ID: <PC19932013033009385906250de094ac@MSAPIRO>

Fred Atkinson wrote:
>
>      Is there any way to set Mailman to just delete these messages rather than hold them for approval?  


Set Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> generic_nonmember_action to
Discard

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 30 17:41:06 2013
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 09:41:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM On Mailman
In-Reply-To: <51322B53-E158-4F18-B968-33D95AA8814C@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1993201303300941060593eb84d857@MSAPIRO>

Allan Herman wrote:

>Why don't you just reject/discard all email unless it is from a subscriber?


Discard is fine, but Reject is bad as it just causes backscatter to the
innocent 3rd parties whose addresses are spoofed in the From: of the
spam.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nxnw at rogers.com  Sat Mar 30 20:09:35 2013
From: nxnw at rogers.com (Allan Herman)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 15:09:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
In-Reply-To: <4B908D94-7D35-481F-8798-896C9BDD7549@stonejongleux.com>
References: <PC1993201303231931300187525462d9@MSAPIRO>
	<BDB0F959-B911-4FC8-9032-81CA8075CE68@rogers.com>
	<4B908D94-7D35-481F-8798-896C9BDD7549@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <64BE4E26-3755-4F39-963C-A49FF48DA395@rogers.com>

In my case, the upgrade from Lion Server to Mountain Lion Server was pretty smooth. Almost everything (contact server, calendar server, file server, profile manager, DNS, OD, iChat server) worked fine without further attention after the upgrade.

Expected issues were the loss of mailman and the loss of server side mail rules (primarily vacation messages).

Unexpected, but easily fixed, was postfix being dead after the update. The failure was due to the config directory being moved from /etc/postfix/ to /Library/Server/Mail/Config/postfix/ ? my main.cf  and master.cf files had many paths to files that were no longer in /etc/postfix/. After a bit of editing, all was fine. Mostly, I just had to change /etc/postfix/  to Library/Server/Mail/Config/postfix/. The only one that was a bit trickier was the aliases file. My recollection was that, originally, the file was at /etc/aliases and the one in /etc/postfix was a symlink, so I just recreated that, with the symlink in Library/Server/Mail/Config/postfix. I am thinking of reversing that however, as the idea of having all server config files in one place (Library/Server/... is appealing.

On 03-29-2013, at 6:27 PM, Larry Stone <lstone19 at stonejongleux.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Allan Herman <nxnw at rogers.com> wrote:
> 
>> OK, here are steps taken for a (mostly) successful installation on Mountain Lion server, including migration from the apple-supplied mailman previously running under Lion.
>> 
>> Primarily, subject to the following comments, I followed the steps in the Snow Leopard instructions at this page: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg56963.html
> 
> As the author of the original, thank you for the update. Note that what I wrote was for OS X "client", not Server. But I am stuck for now at Lion and after one attempt on a test system, not sure I want to try to move my server beyond Lion. Apple has changed way too much in Mountain Lion - compatibility with previous OS versions is just not in Apple's goals (and it's the mail server piece that has stopped me - never even got to Mailman). 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Larry Stone
> lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
> http://www.stonejongleux.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/nxnw%40rogers.com