From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  1 02:08:38 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 17:08:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Error: 'The list overview page
	has been disabled temporarily'
In-Reply-To: <67cb8aae4a144cdcb488d063f77d99b9@BLUPR08MB406.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <67cb8aae4a144cdcb488d063f77d99b9@BLUPR08MB406.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <be2e6411-1b77-4959-b57b-5ae8c357e7ff@email.android.com>

On August 26, 2014 7:41:14 AM PDT, Peter Fiala <peterf at wcasa.org> wrote:
>I thought our public lists were showing on our website but I guess not.
>Any ideas on how to enable the overview page?



The subject message is something added by your hosting service. You will have to contact them for help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement]

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Sep  1 03:26:09 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:26:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Conceal list address?
In-Reply-To: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org>
References: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org>
Message-ID: <87mwak9ln2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cedric Knight writes:

 > The problem arises because it seems one of the list moderators tends to
 > approve all pending replies

If it's not practical to fire (or perhaps even identify) that
moderator, I would suggest editing the moderation template to not
include the "Discard all messages marked Defer" options.

 > What I'd like to do is rewrite From and To lines to be the
 > editorial address, like the Reply-To, so that the list address does
 > not appear in the visible headers.

One option is to enable "full personalization" in the Non-Digest
Options screen.  The subscriber's address will be substituted for the
list's posting address in the visible headers.

This is close to, but not exactly, what you asked for.  Substituting
the list's editor's address may require changes to Mailman itself.

For further advice you'll have to wait for Mark.

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Mon Sep  1 04:51:28 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:51:28 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Conceal list address?
In-Reply-To: <87mwak9ln2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org>
 <87mwak9ln2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700181089441@nuwvicms2>

 Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
>  > The problem arises because it seems one of the list 
> moderators tends to  > approve all pending replies
> 
> If it's not practical to fire (or perhaps even identify) that 
> moderator, I would suggest editing the moderation template to 
> not include the "Discard all messages marked Defer" options.

Wouldn't removing that option make it even more likely for a moderator to approve more than they should? I.e. it's harder to clear them all out, so they have to be done one by one.

Peter Shute

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Sep  1 05:06:44 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 20:06:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Conceal list address?
In-Reply-To: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org>
References: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org>
Message-ID: <33bc4c2c-3a8b-443f-858a-0afc837225c5@email.android.com>

On August 31, 2014 1:13:40 PM PDT, Cedric Knight <cedric at gn.apc.org> wrote:
>
>What I'd like to do is rewrite From and To lines to be the editorial
>address, like the Reply-To, so that the list address does not appear in
>the visible headers.  Is there any way to do this in Mailman?


Only by modifying source code. Mailman takes great pains to ensure that the list posting address appears in at least one of To:, Reply-To: or Cc: to facilitate replying to the list.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement]

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Sep  1 06:32:33 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 13:32:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Conceal list address?
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700181089441@nuwvicms2>
References: <540381F4.1050200@gn.apc.org>
 <87mwak9ln2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E1700181089441@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <87fvgc9d0e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Peter Shute writes:

 > > If it's not practical to fire (or perhaps even identify) that 
 > > moderator, I would suggest editing the moderation template to 
 > > not include the "Discard all messages marked Defer" options.
 > 
 > Wouldn't removing that option make it even more likely for a
 > moderator to approve more than they should? I.e. it's harder to
 > clear them all out, so they have to be done one by one.

Ah, you're right, that was a brain bubble.  I don't think it could
have a useful effect, and you're probably correct that there's a good
chance it would have a perverse effect.

Steve





From Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us  Mon Sep  1 17:23:27 2014
From: Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us (Ecklund, Morgan)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:23:27 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very
 slow	delivery...
In-Reply-To: <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0A4D1@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
 <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0D061@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>

Hey Stephen,
Thanks for responding. 
We do have a lot of public lists. The majority of the subscribers are google users (domain)  though. So we started getting the " Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported"  error. So I had to enable the "single connection per email
Will the update help with that issue?  
I can imagine that is problem for delivery performance.
We also have internal subscribers only lists.  Subscribers are all on exchange server which is behind a Symantec Bright Mail Gateway (do they consider that a smart relay, cause man it is pain in my a$$?)
The delivery delay occurs with all of our  lists internal and external.
When I send a message. I can see that it is received by the list serve server in the Maillog.
Then 3 hours later I see in the mailman log that the message (confirmation that my message is awaiting moderation) was sent. I approve it for delivery it takes another 2-3 hours to hit my inbox.
The only reason I think it is related to mailman is because whenever I look I see that mailman is taking a ton of processor and memory.
When I run Check perm it says "no errors found".
I can attach my config files, which would you like to see?
Thanks Again 
Morgan

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:44 AM
To: Ecklund, Morgan
Cc: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very slow delivery...

Ecklund, Morgan writes:

 > The new environment is CentoOS 6.2 Postfix Mailman 2.1.16rc2.

If you have Yahoo! and/or AOL subscribers, you really want to upgrade to Mailman 2.1.18-1.

 > So we noticed right off the bat that Mailman was maxing the  > processor and filling memory and later I found that it was filling  > up the hard drive...

Why do you think it's Mailman and not Postfix or your virus checker etc?

None of these are normal behavior for Mailman, and I don't know of any common problem in Mailman that causes all three at once.  My guess is a configuration problem that is causing a mail loop or something like that, or a permission problem.

If it's a permission problem with Mailman, it can be detected and probably fixed with bin/check_perms.

 > Where is it hung up how can I clear it out?

It seems likely something's hung up writing to disk.  What is being written?  What do the logs of the applications in the pipeline say?

Regards,

Steve

From Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us  Mon Sep  1 18:01:04 2014
From: Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us (Ecklund, Morgan)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 16:01:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very
 slow	delivery...
In-Reply-To: <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0A4D1@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
 <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0D0DC@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>

I may have found it...
Man I should have known.
And Of course I do not know how to fix it.

Looks like we are receiving messages every 2 minutes or so from people not on the and mailman is busy filtering those out (totally my theory).

Sep 01 11:51:17 2014 (26561) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: mailer-d
emon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway"
Sep 01 11:51:17 2014 (26561) Mailman post from mailer-daemon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway"  hed, message-id=<E1XOTgH-013p80-E0@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway" >: Post by non-member to a membrs-only list
Sep 01 11:53:49 2014 (26561) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: mailer-d
emon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway" 
Sep 01 11:53:49 2014 (26561) Mailman post from mailer-daemon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway" hed, message-id=<E1XOTgH-00Jqig-A6@ "our symantec Brightmail Gateway ">: Post by non-member to a membrs-only list

Is this a valid assumption?
Should the server be able to handle this?
How can I see what list these are being sent too?
How can I stop them?
Thanks
Morgan

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:44 AM
To: Ecklund, Morgan
Cc: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very slow delivery...

Ecklund, Morgan writes:

 > The new environment is CentoOS 6.2 Postfix Mailman 2.1.16rc2.

If you have Yahoo! and/or AOL subscribers, you really want to upgrade to Mailman 2.1.18-1.

 > So we noticed right off the bat that Mailman was maxing the  > processor and filling memory and later I found that it was filling  > up the hard drive...

Why do you think it's Mailman and not Postfix or your virus checker etc?

None of these are normal behavior for Mailman, and I don't know of any common problem in Mailman that causes all three at once.  My guess is a configuration problem that is causing a mail loop or something like that, or a permission problem.

If it's a permission problem with Mailman, it can be detected and probably fixed with bin/check_perms.

 > Where is it hung up how can I clear it out?

It seems likely something's hung up writing to disk.  What is being written?  What do the logs of the applications in the pipeline say?

Regards,

Steve

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Sep  1 19:17:48 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 02:17:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very
 slow	delivery...
In-Reply-To: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0D0DC@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
References: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0A4D1@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
 <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0D0DC@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
Message-ID: <877g1n9s5f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ecklund, Morgan writes:

 > Looks like we are receiving messages every 2 minutes or so from
 > people not on the and mailman is busy filtering those out (totally
 > my theory).
 > 
 > Sep 01 11:51:17 2014 (26561) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: mailer-demon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway"
 > Sep 01 11:51:17 2014 (26561) Mailman post from mailer-daemon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway"  hed, message-id=<E1XOTgH-013p80-E0@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway" >: Post by non-member to a membrs-only list
 > Sep 01 11:53:49 2014 (26561) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: mailer-demon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway" 
 > Sep 01 11:53:49 2014 (26561) Mailman post from mailer-daemon@"our symantec Brightmail Gateway" hed, message-id=<E1XOTgH-00Jqig-A6@ "our symantec Brightmail Gateway ">: Post by non-member to a membrs-only list

It's the mailer-daemon trying post to the mailman at yoursite.tld list
(this is the site list that you have to have configured or Mailman
won't run).  It has been told that it can't post by the autoresponder,
so the autoresponder doesn't tell it again (the "autoresponse discarded").
You need to figure out why mailer-daemon is doing this, every 150
seconds or so.  (In fact, at first it was probably only a handful of
milliseconds between attempts to post.)

I suggest looking in the moderation queue for the Mailman list.  I
suppose this queue would appear in /var/lib/mailman/data.  It's
probably not a good idea to try to look at the moderation queue in the
webserver, use bin/show_qfiles on a couple instead.

 > Should the server be able to handle this?

If it were just spam every two minutes, yes, but I suspect you
probably have a huge queue of held messages for the mailman list
(where "huge" means thousands of files and many gigabytes worth), and
processing that queue is what is keeping Mailman so busy all the time.

 > How can I see what list these are being sent too?

It's there in the 2d and 4th log messages.

 > How can I stop them?

There's a configuration problem somewhere.  I suspect that the
contents of the held messages will help to understand what
mailer-daemon is trying to do.

Mark may have a better guess.

Steve


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Sep  1 19:55:03 2014
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:55:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Passwords
Message-ID: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Every time I go to provide a Moderator for one of my lists it seems 
to take several tries to get the password to take.  That is I fill in 
the e-mail of the moderator on the general settings page, and type in 
their password on the passwords page.  Then it never seems to work 
for them -- I end up changing password several times until it 
eventually seems to take.

Ami I missing something?  Are there restrictions on the 
password?  Does the e-mail have restrictions or qualifications?  Why 
is this always so difficult?

Dave



         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  2 03:37:33 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:37:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Moderator Passwords
In-Reply-To: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <8761h6ajky.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

David Andrews writes:

 > Then it never seems to work for them -- I end up changing password
 > several times until it eventually seems to take.

It's not a matter of "taking".  If you type the same password twice,
and get a page saying password is set, the password has already been
recorded.  The password database is internal to Mailman, and the
system has been in use for nearly two decades with few problem reports
(except that it is *too* easy to use, and consequently insecure), so
we are very confident that it works as designed.

How are the moderators doing their task?  Are they moderating via
email using the Approved header or are they logging in via the web
page?

 > Ami I missing something?  Are there restrictions on the 
 > password?

As far as I can tell, if you can type it, it can be used as a password
by Mailman, except that you can't have leading or trailing whitespace.

 > Does the e-mail have restrictions or qualifications?

If the email can send and receive email, it's a valid moderator
identifier.

 > Why is this always so difficult?

Except for actually remembering the password and accurately entering
it without seeing it, it is intended to be straightforward.  Accurate
entry can be aided by choice of password so it fits the user's typing
rhythm, but that's up to you -- it decreases security to restrict
choice to easily remembered, easily typed passwords.

If it's "always" difficult, that implies a documentation problem.  If
you can help us identify inaccurate or inadequate explanations, we
would be very grateful.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  2 04:53:24 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:53:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Passwords
In-Reply-To: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <54053124.5030401@msapiro.net>

On 09/01/2014 10:55 AM, David Andrews wrote:
>
> Ami I missing something?  Are there restrictions on the password?  Does
> the e-mail have restrictions or qualifications?  Why is this always so
> difficult?


Just a bit more on Stephen's answer.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/5YA9>.

The email address(es) in the moderator attribute only determine who 
receives notices. They have nothing to do with who can moderate a list. 
The people who can moderate the list are those and only those who know 
one of the two passwords (administrator and moderator) entered on the 
web admin Passwords section.

Are the moderators trying to use their own list member password? That 
won't work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fabioeckhardt at universo.univates.br  Mon Sep  1 20:32:04 2014
From: fabioeckhardt at universo.univates.br (Fabio Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:32:04 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message of large size,
	only the "owner" of the list may authorize
Message-ID: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>

?Is there any easy way to get Mailman messages of large size, only the
"owner" of the list may authorize? And only the smallest message
"moderator" can approve them?

  I'm really getting tired of dealing with those very large messages that
are released by the moderator.?

-- 

F?bio

From heller at deepsoft.com  Tue Sep  2 14:55:24 2014
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:55:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message of large size,
	only the "owner" of the list may authorize
In-Reply-To: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201409021255.s82CtOg2025951@sharky2.deepsoft.com>

At Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:32:04 -0300 Fabio Eckhardt <fabioeckhardt at universo.univates.br> wrote:

> 
> ???Is there any easy way to get Mailman messages of large size, only the
> "owner" of the list may authorize? And only the smallest message
> "moderator" can approve them?
> 
>   I'm really getting tired of dealing with those very large messages that
> are released by the moderator.???

There isn't really a 'privilege separation' at that level.  The solution is to 
talk to the moderator about not releasing very large messages and/or 
communication with the people posting very large messages or even both.

> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                              

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  2 17:30:37 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 00:30:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Message of large size,
	only the "owner" of the list may authorize
In-Reply-To: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wq9m82g2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Fabio Eckhardt writes:

 > ?Is there any easy way to get Mailman messages of large size, only the
 > "owner" of the list may authorize? And only the smallest message
 > "moderator" can approve them?
 > 
 >   I'm really getting tired of dealing with those very large messages that
 > are released by the moderator.?

If you know what the MIME type(s) or filename extension(s) of the
offending attachments are, you can have Mailman remove them in the
Content Filtering screen.

If you really want some but not all large messages to pass, I think
you should get a better moderator, the list owner if necessary.
Consider: the list owner is going to have to check regularly anyway.
Unless your list gets an awful lot of spam, checking once a day only
takes a few minutes, less than "dealing with those very large
messages" that the moderator should never have released.

Steve

From kevin.likes at gmail.com  Tue Sep  2 20:31:40 2014
From: kevin.likes at gmail.com (Kevin T. Likes)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:31:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
Message-ID: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a user-managed list that suddenly stopped adding the footer to
messages. It appears that after the time footers stopped being added, I
started seeing links for scrubbed attachments to messages.

What setting(s) could be causing this?

From Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us  Tue Sep  2 23:32:14 2014
From: Morgan.Ecklund at state.vt.us (Ecklund, Morgan)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:32:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very
 slow	delivery...
In-Reply-To: <871tru9rj8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0A4D1@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
 <87zjema8nw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0D0DC@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
 <877g1n9s5f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0DAA9@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>
 <871tru9rj8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <AD6D633DB8E1824EA912E136D870AE3C1EE0F623@ENT-EXDAG3.vsms.state.vt.us>

Thanks So much Stephen,
I just wanted make sure I got this in writing.
And document what I had to do to fix the loop you found (more savy folks may have done it faster) 
I tried to use a text editor, but of course it did not (could not lock the file)
Tried to create the change_owner script and use withlist, as advised be Mark Shapiro, but would not run Change_owner module not loaded... but that is what I was telling it to load.
So I got a wild hair.
I stopped mailman service. 
I could then go into the mailman list UI.
I changed the owner to a physical account.
Restarted mailman..
Qrunner was still pegged at 99%
Stopped it again.
Went into the UI again (had to wait a minute for the qrunner to spin down) went to tend to moderated items
Checked "discard all messages marked defer"
 Restarted
Mailman is no longer absorbent
Thanks Again!
Morgan
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 7:43 AM
To: Ecklund, Morgan
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is being a processor sponge.... very slow delivery...

Ecklund, Morgan writes:

 > I am pretty sure it has been hacked.

It looks normal to me.

 > Can you look at the the dumpdb of the mailman list.
 > "relay.comanche.denmark.eu\nfrom:" 
 > Just seems out of place.

No, it's just a very very old default that hasn't been changed.  Back in the late 1990s (!!!) the headers indicated by

 >     'bounce_matching_headers': "\n# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.\nto: friend at public.com\nmessage-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu\nfrom: list at listme.com\nfrom: .*@uplinkpro.com\n",

ie, # Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
    to: friend at public.com
    message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
    from: list at listme.com
    from: .*@uplinkpro.com

were famous for reliably indicating spam.  The example regexps haven't been changed since then, that's all.  Aha!  This variable

 >     'owner': [   'mailman at list.education.state.vt.us',
 >                  'list-admin at education.state.vt.us'],

is probably your immediate problem.  It's OK for a list's owner email to be another list, but it should not be itself.  It's very likely to cause a loop where a post causes an error, which cause an error message to go to owner, which is the list, but that causes another error, and this repeats ad infinitum as fast as your CPU and disks can handle it.  It's almost as likely to loop if mailman@ is the owner of @list-admin and vice-versa, so don't do that either.  At least one of your lists needs to have all its owner addresses be regular mailboxes.

The way I set it up at XEmacs.org is that all lists (including
mailman at xemacs.org) have owner xemacs-services at xemacs.org (which is also the real webmaster etc), except that xemacs-services itself is owned by me and a couple of other volunteers.  The owner list for that list is maintained by hand.

Yes, you'd think that it would be easy to recognize such a mail loop and Mailman would just stop looping, and indeed humans can.  But it turns out to be really hard to do automatically, since by definition when an error message is generated to owner the system is in some bizarre state.

Everything else looks fine to me.  If you take mailman@ out of the owners' address list, it should stop the loop, and take a big load off the CPU and disks.

Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 03:10:54 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:10:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] .psv files in /var/spool/mailman/in 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20140819212747.GC36407@aura.veggiechinese.net>
References: <20140819212747.GC36407@aura.veggiechinese.net>
Message-ID: <54066A9E.5060503@msapiro.net>

On 08/19/2014 02:27 PM, Will Yardley wrote:
> I found some .psv files in /var/spool/mailman/in/ (RHEL 5 Mailman
> package; 2.1.9). That seems to be too early for the stuff mentioned here
> (and I don't see those options in Defaults.py)
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-June/066395.html


Correct. Mailman 2.1.9 doesn't write .psv files ayt all and those
versions that do only put them (in the RHEL package) in
/var/spool/mailman/bad/.

So where those files came form, I can't say.


> Is it safe to remove old .psv files in this directory directly via find
> / cron?


If you just

rm /var/spool/mailman/in/*.psv

one time, that should get rid of them and there should be no new ones,
but for curiousity, you might run Mailman's

bin/show_qfiles /var/spool/mailman/in/*.psv

first to see what's in them, although this may just throw the same
exceptions that caused them to be preserved in the first place.

In any case, yes, it is safe to remove them as Mailman never looks at them.

Note: if new ones appear, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD>
and ask RedHat.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Sep  3 03:45:59 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:45:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Kevin T. Likes writes:

 > I have a user-managed list that suddenly stopped adding the footer
 > to messages. It appears that after the time footers stopped being
 > added, I started seeing links for scrubbed attachments to messages.

The footer is set in the "Non-digest Settings" screen.  It's
theoretically possible that scrubbing attachments could interfere with
adding the footer, or perhaps for some reason it is being added
outside of the MIME structure and your mail client doesn't display it
(this is proper behavior for the client, but given the complexity of
MIME I am reluctant to call it a bug in Mailman).  If your client has
a "show original" function to show the message without any formatting,
you can check for this condition by using "show original" and
scrolling to the bottom.

Scrubbing is configured in the "Content Filtering" screen.  You can
scrub by MIME type or by filename extension.  There is a standard list
of things to scrub (.com, .bat, .exe, ...) because of the high
probability that such attachments are malicious

Check for changes in those settings.

What does the user-manager say?  If the user-manager isn't being
helpful, I would hesitate to trust them with list management in the
first place.  YMMV, of course.

Steve


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Sep  3 04:38:58 2014
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:38:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Passwords
In-Reply-To: <8761h6ajky.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>
 <8761h6ajky.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <auto-000166583851@mailfront4.g2host.com>

At 08:37 PM 9/1/2014, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>David Andrews writes:
>
>  > Then it never seems to work for them -- I end up changing password
>  > several times until it eventually seems to take.
>
>It's not a matter of "taking".  If you type the same password twice,
>and get a page saying password is set, the password has already been
>recorded.  The password database is internal to Mailman, and the
>system has been in use for nearly two decades with few problem reports
>(except that it is *too* easy to use, and consequently insecure), so
>we are very confident that it works as designed.


Well I must sheepishly admit it was my error.  I apologize for taking 
everybody's time.  I was giving the Moderator the wrong URL to get 
into his list.

Dave




         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Sep  3 07:01:19 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:01:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Passwords
In-Reply-To: <auto-000166583851@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000166910697@mailfront3.g2host.com>
 <8761h6ajky.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <auto-000166583851@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <87k35l8fhc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

David Andrews writes:

 > I apologize for taking everybody's time.

Apology graciously accepted, but really, none needed.  Password
management is at best annoying, and to do it *really* well, hard.
Mailman is a complex product.  I'm glad that the assurance that it
shouldn't be *that* hard was enough for you to find and fix the issue
yourself!

Steve



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 07:35:01 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 22:35:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated list,
 letting some users be unmoderated,
 and with emails addressed to multiple recipients.
In-Reply-To: <CACK26nsEmLz-jDtkttqcy_AM53uafckS4iSPrHj6eKXg48oJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACK26nsEmLz-jDtkttqcy_AM53uafckS4iSPrHj6eKXg48oJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5406A885.1060707@msapiro.net>

On 08/25/2014 12:12 PM, Steve wrote:
> 
> I'm a moderator on a GNU Mailman list running version 2.1.13.
> <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html>
> 
> The list moderated, all posts come to me for approval.
> 
> I have a few very trustworthy and regular posters that I have set as
> unmoderated to save myself some work.
> 
> The problem is that they send their emails to multiple lists/recipients and
> when they do I am still forced to approve their posts.


Why are the posts held. Is it because of too many recipients?


> Is there an option in the GUI front end I can set on these users to let
> their posts straight through regardless?


See Privacy options... -> Recipient filters -> max_num_recipients	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 08:00:01 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:00:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation by email instead of web interface ?
In-Reply-To: <CA+7qukz7NQWCtAcnSdxC4WdnMAcQruaDw5u7KuWEeTY-5acJtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7qukz7NQWCtAcnSdxC4WdnMAcQruaDw5u7KuWEeTY-5acJtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5406AE61.5040206@msapiro.net>

On 08/26/2014 01:43 AM, BONNET, Frank wrote:
> 
> Anyone could send me some info on how to configure a particuliar list
> to be moderated through email and NOT with the web interface with
> the Approve mechanism


Set General Options -> admin_immed_notify to Yes in the list's web admin
interface. This will cause a notice to be sent to the owner(s) and
moderator(s) for each held message. The notice will contain a MIME
message/rfc822 part From: the list's -request address with Subject:
equal 'confirm <token>' where <token> is a string identifying the held
message and body

If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is spam.
 If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header with the
list password in it, the message will be approved for posting to the
list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line of the
body of the reply.

Note that "reply to this message" refers to the message/rfc822 part, not
the outer message. I.e., the reply should go to the list's -request
address and have a Subject: of 'confirm <token>' or 'Re: confirm <token>'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From david.whited-ford at organicvalley.coop  Tue Sep  2 22:28:26 2014
From: david.whited-ford at organicvalley.coop (David Whited-Ford)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 20:28:26 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman sending to existing subscribers but new
 subscribe doesn't work
Message-ID: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8D092@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>

Hello,

We recently moved our list to a new server. Same domain name.

Emails to the list work fine for existing subscribers but we can't add new subscribers.
The mass subscription seems to work and the new users appear in the list but don't receive email, even though they receive the welcome email.

Possibly related, nothing appears on the moderation page for admins even though they receive a notice of pending items to moderate.

I've run check_perms and moved the files by rsync so permissions should be ok.

One other difference from the old server, the web pages are hosted using nginx which passes the requests to Apache.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Dave

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 08:07:35 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:07:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman sending to existing subscribers but new
 subscribe doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8D092@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>
References: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8D092@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>
Message-ID: <5406B027.6060906@msapiro.net>

On 09/02/2014 01:28 PM, David Whited-Ford wrote:
> 
> We recently moved our list to a new server. Same domain name.
> 
> Emails to the list work fine for existing subscribers but we can't add new subscribers.
> The mass subscription seems to work and the new users appear in the list but don't receive email, even though they receive the welcome email.


There appear to be DNS issues. I.e Mail to the list is going to the old
server, not the new.


> Possibly related, nothing appears on the moderation page for admins even though they receive a notice of pending items to moderate.


The notice probably comes from the old server and the web URL goes to
the new server.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Wed Sep  3 12:13:09 2014
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:13:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.xllvz7v3g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:31:40 +0100, Kevin T. Likes <kevin.likes at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> I have a user-managed list that suddenly stopped adding the footer to
> messages. It appears that after the time footers stopped being added, I
> started seeing links for scrubbed attachments to messages.
>
> What setting(s) could be causing this?

This may be a wild guess too far ...

Is this an announcement list with only one regular poster? If it has  
numerous posters, forget this idea but if there is just one dominant  
poster, maybe that poster has switched from posting plain text to posting  
HTML. IIRC that will tend to hide the footers in the MIME structure and  
the posted HTML could be the scrubbed attachments you are finding.

... and if that was a guess too far, apologies for clogging up the list.

= Malcolm.

-- 
Malcolm Austen  <malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk>
GENUKI trustee  <genuki at weald.org.uk>
Pedigree User Group  <chairman at pugweb.org.uk>
Oxfordshire FHS  <webmaster at ofhs.org.uk>
FFHS Communications Officer  <communications at ffhs.org.uk>

From kevin.likes at gmail.com  Wed Sep  3 14:36:56 2014
From: kevin.likes at gmail.com (Kevin T. Likes)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:36:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>

The footer looks fine in the settings screen. I know I said it suddenly
stopped showing up, and it looked that way from the first half dozen
messages I looked at, but now it looks like some messages are getting it
and most aren't.

I've been checking the messages in the list archive, so user client
shouldn't be an issue. I just checked the most recent messages, and one had
a footer but the previous dozen or so didn't. I'm no longer sure this has
anything do do with the scrubbing. I've seen some message without footers
or a scrubbed attachment, and found one with a footer and a scrubbed
attachment.

filter_content is set to no, collapse_alternatives is yes. According to the
manager the only change they made was a few months ago when we turned on
"Mung from" due to DKIM issues. But this problem didn't crop up until
recently, from what I can tell in the archives.


On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> Kevin T. Likes writes:
>
>  > I have a user-managed list that suddenly stopped adding the footer
>  > to messages. It appears that after the time footers stopped being
>  > added, I started seeing links for scrubbed attachments to messages.
>
> The footer is set in the "Non-digest Settings" screen.  It's
> theoretically possible that scrubbing attachments could interfere with
> adding the footer, or perhaps for some reason it is being added
> outside of the MIME structure and your mail client doesn't display it
> (this is proper behavior for the client, but given the complexity of
> MIME I am reluctant to call it a bug in Mailman).  If your client has
> a "show original" function to show the message without any formatting,
> you can check for this condition by using "show original" and
> scrolling to the bottom.
>
> Scrubbing is configured in the "Content Filtering" screen.  You can
> scrub by MIME type or by filename extension.  There is a standard list
> of things to scrub (.com, .bat, .exe, ...) because of the high
> probability that such attachments are malicious
>
> Check for changes in those settings.
>
> What does the user-manager say?  If the user-manager isn't being
> helpful, I would hesitate to trust them with list management in the
> first place.  YMMV, of course.
>
> Steve
>
>

From abwatson at me.com  Wed Sep  3 16:16:23 2014
From: abwatson at me.com (Andrew Watson)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:16:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing
Message-ID: <C96F522A-7EDA-443C-A2FE-01FE0458F5DC@me.com>

On Aug 29 2014 I disabled bounce processing for my list.
On Sep 2 2014 I re-enabled the subscription of a subscriber who had been disabled.
On Sep 3 2014 the subscriber received the message below: (list name deleted)

Why is this happening after I disabled bounce processing?
Why is the subscriber being disabled two weeks after the bounce?

> On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 4:05 AM, "" <> wrote:
> 
> 
> Your membership in the mailing list hs has been disabled due to
> excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
> 20-Aug-2014.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
> you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 1 more reminders like
> this before your membership in the list is deleted.

From david.whited-ford at organicvalley.coop  Wed Sep  3 13:11:53 2014
From: david.whited-ford at organicvalley.coop (David Whited-Ford)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:11:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman sending to existing subscribers but new
 subscribe doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <5406B027.6060906@msapiro.net>
References: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8D092@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>
 <5406B027.6060906@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8DD30@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>

Mark,

Thanks for the post.

Indeed, the pending moderation is on the old server so that question is answered.
Is that just a case of DNS not updating for some users? We do have that site running as a subdomain old.thatsite.coop.

But what about the subscription problem?
Is that DNS related as well?

Thanks,

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+david.whited-ford=organicvalley.coop at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 1:08 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman sending to existing subscribers but new subscribe doesn't work

On 09/02/2014 01:28 PM, David Whited-Ford wrote:
> 
> We recently moved our list to a new server. Same domain name.
> 
> Emails to the list work fine for existing subscribers but we can't add new subscribers.
> The mass subscription seems to work and the new users appear in the list but don't receive email, even though they receive the welcome email.


There appear to be DNS issues. I.e Mail to the list is going to the old server, not the new.


> Possibly related, nothing appears on the moderation page for admins even though they receive a notice of pending items to moderate.


The notice probably comes from the old server and the web URL goes to the new server.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/david.whited-ford%40organicvalley.coop

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 19:17:34 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:17:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54074D2E.7070309@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 05:36 AM, Kevin T. Likes wrote:
> 
> I've been checking the messages in the list archive, so user client
> shouldn't be an issue.


msg_header and msg_footer are not added to messages in the archive. If
they appear there, it's only in 'replies' that quote them from the
original. msg_header and msg_footer are only added to messages delivered
to individual message subscribers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 19:44:20 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:44:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman sending to existing subscribers but new
 subscribe doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8DD30@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>
References: <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8D092@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>
 <5406B027.6060906@msapiro.net>
 <62F7BE3569FBCD47ABF67E942F29B12E65B8DD30@MBSERV01.croppcooperative.com>
Message-ID: <54075374.6030208@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 04:11 AM, David Whited-Ford wrote:
> 
> But what about the subscription problem?
> Is that DNS related as well?


My guess is that new members are added to the list on the new server,
but the MX for the list domain still points to the old server so that
posts to the list go to the old server where the new members aren't on
the list.

It could also be that DNS has been updated but the old MX and/or A
records had long time to live and haven't aged out of some users' DNS
caches yet, but this seems unlikely.

You could check Mailman's 'post' log on both servers to see which one is
processing posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From kevin.likes at gmail.com  Wed Sep  3 19:50:25 2014
From: kevin.likes at gmail.com (Kevin T. Likes)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 13:50:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <54074D2E.7070309@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54074D2E.7070309@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAasg_0EBRRDGvu6da7_yfJKcu=yxSRsfF4+1b6TsR3b=OdCXg@mail.gmail.com>

I was seeing them in replies (quoted over), but I also see them in messages
that don't appear to be replies. That's probably different quoting
confusing me. This is good to know. I guess this is to save space in the
archives?


On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 09/03/2014 05:36 AM, Kevin T. Likes wrote:
> >
> > I've been checking the messages in the list archive, so user client
> > shouldn't be an issue.
>
>
> msg_header and msg_footer are not added to messages in the archive. If
> they appear there, it's only in 'replies' that quote them from the
> original. msg_header and msg_footer are only added to messages delivered
> to individual message subscribers.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kevin.likes%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 20:21:36 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:21:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <C96F522A-7EDA-443C-A2FE-01FE0458F5DC@me.com>
References: <C96F522A-7EDA-443C-A2FE-01FE0458F5DC@me.com>
Message-ID: <54075C30.7000605@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 07:16 AM, Andrew Watson wrote:
> On Aug 29 2014 I disabled bounce processing for my list.
> On Sep 2 2014 I re-enabled the subscription of a subscriber who had been disabled.
> On Sep 3 2014 the subscriber received the message below: (list name deleted)
> 
> Why is this happening after I disabled bounce processing?
> Why is the subscriber being disabled two weeks after the bounce?
> 
>> On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 4:05 AM, "" <> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Your membership in the mailing list hs has been disabled due to
>> excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
>> 20-Aug-2014.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
>> you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 1 more reminders like
>> this before your membership in the list is deleted.


Everything is as expected with one exception.

On Aug 20, a bounce was processed for the user which caused his delivery
to be disabled by bounce and the first notice similar to the above to be
sent.

On Aug 27 (assuming default settings) cron/disabled sent the second
notice similar to the above.

On Sept 3, cron/disabled sent the above notice. The mystery is this
should only have happened if the member had bounce info at that time,
but you say you enabled delivery on Sept 2. cron/disabled doesn't look
at whether the list's bounce processing is enabled or not (your first
question). It only looks at member's bounce information which should
have been deleted when delivery was enabled.

As to your second question, the member wasn't disabled 2 weeks after the
bounce. She was disabled on Aug 20 and was just sent another notice on
Sept 3. See the Bounce processing settings
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval.

There appears to be an issue here in that cron/disabled doesn't look at
the member's delivery status. It uses the MemberAdaptor
getBouncingMembers() method to get a list of bouncing members and that
method returns all members with bounce info. The issue is when you
re-enabled delivery for this member, bounce info should have been
removed and it wasn't.

How exactly did you enable the member's delivery on Sept 2? What is your
Mailman version? Do you have a non-standard MemberAdaptor?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 22:35:09 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:35:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <CB4F9443-C0D4-489E-BF8C-70A7D3AFC5C4@me.com>
References: <C96F522A-7EDA-443C-A2FE-01FE0458F5DC@me.com>
 <54075C30.7000605@msapiro.net> <CB4F9443-C0D4-489E-BF8C-70A7D3AFC5C4@me.com>
Message-ID: <54077B7D.1080406@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 11:34 AM, Andrew Watson wrote:
> Thanks for your help.
> The version is 2.1.10
> I enabled the subscriber at the administrative interface under Member
> Management under Membership List (I unchecked the nomail box, which had
> a [B] next to it). 
> I dont think I have a non-standard MemberAdaptor, since I don't know
> what that is.


What you did should have removed the bounce info for the user assuming
that the page refreshed with the nomail box unchecked after you pressed
"Submit Your Changes". It should work in your version with the standard
OldStyleMemberships.py MemberAdaptor. If by chance you are using the
MysqlMemberships.py MemberAdaptor, there is in issue with Mailman 2.1.10
(fixed in 2.1.11) that could cause it to fail.


> If this is a onetime curiosity, i don't want either of us to spend too
> much time on it.
> But if it is going to recur, then I need to fix.


It appears to be a "one time" glitch unless you are using the
MysqlMemberships.py MemberAdaptor to store list membership info in a
MySQL database.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fsantiago at garden-life.org  Wed Sep  3 23:24:48 2014
From: fsantiago at garden-life.org (Fabian Santiago)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:24:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging archive volumes
Message-ID: <83bbb4b1cf6bdf619a706c39d892405f@garden-life.org>

Hello,

I'm running centos 6.5 x86_64, mailman v 2.1.12, along with postfix. I 
use pipermail to display my list archives in a private fashion.

I originally had my archives set to monthly volumes and then after the 
1st month changed it to yearly. now, when i navigate to my archives 
page, i see two top level volume entries, one for the 1st month when i 
had it set to monthly archiving and one for everything else.

is there anyway i can merge the two into one solid archive volume? 
thanks everyone.

-- 

Sincerely,

- Fabian S.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep  3 23:46:22 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:46:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging archive volumes
In-Reply-To: <83bbb4b1cf6bdf619a706c39d892405f@garden-life.org>
References: <83bbb4b1cf6bdf619a706c39d892405f@garden-life.org>
Message-ID: <54078C2E.3060404@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 02:24 PM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
> 
> I originally had my archives set to monthly volumes and then after the
> 1st month changed it to yearly. now, when i navigate to my archives
> page, i see two top level volume entries, one for the 1st month when i
> had it set to monthly archiving and one for everything else.
> 
> is there anyway i can merge the two into one solid archive volume?


bin/arch --wipe <listname>

See 'bin/arch --help' for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fsantiago at garden-life.org  Wed Sep  3 23:58:01 2014
From: fsantiago at garden-life.org (Fabian Santiago)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:58:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merging archive volumes
In-Reply-To: <54078C2E.3060404@msapiro.net>
References: <83bbb4b1cf6bdf619a706c39d892405f@garden-life.org>
 <54078C2E.3060404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4f130e1daec41b057603e4e08a79742e@garden-life.org>

thanks! worked perfectly.

---

Sincerely,

- Fabian S.

On 2014-09-03 17:46, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 09/03/2014 02:24 PM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
>> 
>> I originally had my archives set to monthly volumes and then after the
>> 1st month changed it to yearly. now, when i navigate to my archives
>> page, i see two top level volume entries, one for the 1st month when i
>> had it set to monthly archiving and one for everything else.
>> 
>> is there anyway i can merge the two into one solid archive volume?
> 
> 
> bin/arch --wipe <listname>
> 
> See 'bin/arch --help' for more info.

From stevecon at gmail.com  Wed Sep  3 23:55:21 2014
From: stevecon at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:55:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration question..
Message-ID: <CACvWqMRTKgcN+M4wkj7BNnzM8r0QVJMNx8OkhA9JWu-3U+hY2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -

I have recently taken over a webpage that was moved to Wix (which does not
offer email accounts) while opting to keep email at the original host -
Hostgator.  The domain is blpoa.com and is working properly for web and
email. The email is on "gator3227.hostgator.com"

Mailing lists are another story however.  When I provide
http://gator3227.hostgator.com/mailman/listinfo/members_blpoa.com page to
people to subscribe, Mailman returns
http://blpoa.com/mailman/confirm/members_blpoa.com (and a confirmation
"key").  The problem is that when this link is clicked - it sends the user
to Wix - and simply displays the webpage.  The sign up process can not be
completed. I have searched all over but can not seem to find an answer.
Changing *host_name *to gator3227.hostgator.com made no difference. We're
using Mailman 2.1.17.  Thanks in advance - Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  4 01:03:23 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 16:03:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration question..
In-Reply-To: <CACvWqMRTKgcN+M4wkj7BNnzM8r0QVJMNx8OkhA9JWu-3U+hY2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvWqMRTKgcN+M4wkj7BNnzM8r0QVJMNx8OkhA9JWu-3U+hY2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54079E3B.6030506@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 02:55 PM, Steve wrote:
> 
> Mailing lists are another story however.  When I provide
> http://gator3227.hostgator.com/mailman/listinfo/members_blpoa.com page to
> people to subscribe, Mailman returns
> http://blpoa.com/mailman/confirm/members_blpoa.com (and a confirmation
> "key").


You need to set the list's web_page_url attribute to
'http://gator3227.hostgator.com/mailman/'. Unfortunately, you can't set
this via the web admin GUI. There are several ways to set it, but they
all require access to a command shell on the host which you probably
don't have. Possibly you can convince hostgator support to do this for you.

Perhaps the most straightforward way to do this on hostgator's cPanel
Mailman is something like:

#!bin/sh
cd /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman
file=`mktemp`
echo 'web_page_url=http://gator3227.hostgator.com/mailman/' > $file
bin/config_list -i $file members_blpoa.com
rm $file

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Sep  4 01:08:15 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 08:08:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bnqw8fq8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Kevin T. Likes writes:

 > I've been checking the messages in the list archive,

Mark addressed this already, but let me add that copying of messages
to the archive happens before adding the header and footer material.

I believe that aside from space saving (both disk and visual space on
the user's display), a primary motivation is to avoid publishing links
to personal pages in the archive.

 > filter_content is set to no,

I don't think this is consistent with scrubbed attachments.  Mark?

 > collapse_alternatives is yes. According to the
 > manager the only change they made was a few months ago when we turned on
 > "Mung from" due to DKIM issues. But this problem didn't crop up until
 > recently, from what I can tell in the archives.

I don't think you can tell from the web archives.  You need somebody
who keeps all the posts in their MUA to take a look.  N.B.  GMail is
somewhat broken for this purpose -- it *always* discards the user's
own posts when received via the list, giving precedence to the copy in
the Sent folder, so the user's own posts will not show any edits or
additions that the list makes.

From kevin.likes at gmail.com  Thu Sep  4 01:19:22 2014
From: kevin.likes at gmail.com (Kevin T. Likes)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 19:19:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <87bnqw8fq8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87bnqw8fq8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAasg_0-KmqCAimRME1NLP3MYCfGxX2AiBe_rYvo-iLH71X=NQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, the archives led me astray. I asked some more questions, and found
out the issue is one user using Outlook, which seems to be a known issue.
That'll teach me to jump to a conclusion.

On Wednesday, September 3, 2014, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> Kevin T. Likes writes:
>
>  > I've been checking the messages in the list archive,
>
> Mark addressed this already, but let me add that copying of messages
> to the archive happens before adding the header and footer material.
>
> I believe that aside from space saving (both disk and visual space on
> the user's display), a primary motivation is to avoid publishing links
> to personal pages in the archive.
>
>  > filter_content is set to no,
>
> I don't think this is consistent with scrubbed attachments.  Mark?
>
>  > collapse_alternatives is yes. According to the
>  > manager the only change they made was a few months ago when we turned on
>  > "Mung from" due to DKIM issues. But this problem didn't crop up until
>  > recently, from what I can tell in the archives.
>
> I don't think you can tell from the web archives.  You need somebody
> who keeps all the posts in their MUA to take a look.  N.B.  GMail is
> somewhat broken for this purpose -- it *always* discards the user's
> own posts when received via the list, giving precedence to the copy in
> the Sent folder, so the user's own posts will not show any edits or
> additions that the list makes.
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  4 05:28:02 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 20:28:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stopped adding footers.
In-Reply-To: <87bnqw8fq8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAasg_3jd0NkAED6VnsOvAgapstV7cAmVLu00hpZC59KPqmGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87sik98oiw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAasg_3xg7Ft8msxYNKuyb8bNsdPaYtqC6cB=YSkW_zx1sqCwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87bnqw8fq8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <5407DC42.3090804@msapiro.net>

On 09/03/2014 04:08 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Kevin T. Likes writes:
> 
>  > filter_content is set to no,
> 
> I don't think this is consistent with scrubbed attachments.  Mark?


Content filtering and scrubbing are more or less independent.

First content filtering is applied to remove any MIME parts with
undesired Content-Type: or filename extensions.

After this is done, the scrubber will attempt to flatten the message
into a single text/plain message. MIME parts which remain after content
filtering and which cannot be converted to plain text in a known
character set are stored aside and replaced by links to the stored
parts. Normally this is done only for the archive and the plain text
format digest and not for individual messages or messages in the MIME
format digest, but if Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest is Yes,
scrubbing is done for all messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fabioeckhardt at universo.univates.br  Thu Sep  4 21:24:32 2014
From: fabioeckhardt at universo.univates.br (Fabio Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:24:32 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message of large size,
 only the "owner" of the list may authorize
In-Reply-To: <87wq9m82g2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wq9m82g2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CACtkJC4Z0HiiHrQ-xjk5Q_Tw=NNkFgoaUNvT7-uoaBcLxavUiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,

I've been checking the forum on how to automatically reject messages  size
at this link:

 *https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-October/058752.html
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-October/058752.html>*

The function:

      * if bodylen/1024.0 > mlist.max_message_size:
            raise Errors.RejectMessage, Utils.wrap(
                MessageTooBig(bodylen,
                    mlist.max_message_size).reason_notice())*



Only this class (function) only works for registered mail list, you would
have to do to members not registered on the list?

And finally could be administrator or refer to the list owner's email
rejected ?

some could help me?

F?bio



2014-09-02 12:30 GMT-03:00 Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>:

> Fabio Eckhardt writes:
>
>  > ?Is there any easy way to get Mailman messages of large size, only the
>  > "owner" of the list may authorize? And only the smallest message
>  > "moderator" can approve them?
>  >
>  >   I'm really getting tired of dealing with those very large messages
> that
>  > are released by the moderator.?
>
> If you know what the MIME type(s) or filename extension(s) of the
> offending attachments are, you can have Mailman remove them in the
> Content Filtering screen.
>
> If you really want some but not all large messages to pass, I think
> you should get a better moderator, the list owner if necessary.
> Consider: the list owner is going to have to check regularly anyway.
> Unless your list gets an awful lot of spam, checking once a day only
> takes a few minutes, less than "dealing with those very large
> messages" that the moderator should never have released.
>
> Steve
>



-- 

F?bio

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  4 21:30:16 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:30:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook -
 was Erratic mail delivery times
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E170017E3C3BC5@nuwvicms2>
References: <61377823-4AF4-406C-81F8-6BC9E3D5F240@nuw.org.au>
 <0bc710f0-57df-4ad4-bbad-ba9ee80cdcc1@email.android.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E170017E3C39A2@nuwvicms2>
 <53C48A1E.8020802@att.net>	<87lhrv2kxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E170017E3C39EA@nuwvicms2>
 <53C87661.3080909@msapiro.net>
 <CAEUd7=6_v4qTgttXz2ac0NtSZcCheUM=ywKxLhK2ubxXOXExhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1B9BECA9-0F0D-4FA3-8503-3B7843AA2E1E@nathanson.org>
 <E2746FB1-0772-456A-BD58-09E251438FE3@nuw.org.au>
 <6762DDC5-F1E8-4046-8937-2477CD8FD65C@nathanson.org>
 <8006A547-1CE8-4596-8204-8A55C821EA3A@nuw.org.au>
 <877g36p4z9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E170017E3C3A3F@nuwvicms2>
 <53CDFC8E.60809@msapiro.net>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E170017E3C3BBD@nuwvicms2>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E170017E3C3BC5@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <5408BDC8.6050209@msapiro.net>

On 08/17/2014 07:46 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> 
> Can it cause any problems to Cc the list bounce address?


It will probably (almost certainly unless someone purposely crafts a
post that looks like some kind of DSN) be an unrecognized bounce which
will either be ignored or forwarded to the list owner depending on the
list's bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner setting. It won't cause
any problems other than possibly annoying the list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  4 22:47:47 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 13:47:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of threads
In-Reply-To: <01829268-4F1A-4629-9A8D-4C63881DC995@csusb.edu>
References: <01829268-4F1A-4629-9A8D-4C63881DC995@csusb.edu>
Message-ID: <5408CFF3.5020804@msapiro.net>

On 08/25/2014 09:02 AM, Chad Cordero wrote:
> I am using MailMan version 2.1.12 and I am being asked for the total number of messages without replies (threads) for a list.  I can see the ?Messages: ? count in the archives, but this is the total number of messages, not threads.  Is there a way to get the number of threads?


There is no convenient way to do this.

If you have access to the underlying file system, you could do something
like

links -dump /path/to/archives/private/LIST/yyyy-Month/thread.html \
  | grep '^     \*' | wc -l

and subtract 4 from the result because the grep includes two each of
lines like

     * Messages sorted by: [1][ subject ] [2][ author ] [3][ date ]
     * [4]More info on this list...


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep  4 23:06:17 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 14:06:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message of large size,
 only the "owner" of the list may authorize
In-Reply-To: <CACtkJC4Z0HiiHrQ-xjk5Q_Tw=NNkFgoaUNvT7-uoaBcLxavUiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACtkJC4sgbXyFnT6TcUywa1mMRqmyc88AJrEuVTVp0ayFq+Dpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wq9m82g2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CACtkJC4Z0HiiHrQ-xjk5Q_Tw=NNkFgoaUNvT7-uoaBcLxavUiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5408D449.9020109@msapiro.net>

On 09/04/2014 12:24 PM, Fabio Eckhardt wrote:
> 
> I've been checking the forum on how to automatically reject messages  size
> at this link:
> 
>  https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-October/058752.html
> 
> The function:
> 
>       * if bodylen/1024.0 > mlist.max_message_size:
>             raise Errors.RejectMessage, Utils.wrap(
>                 MessageTooBig(bodylen,
>                     mlist.max_message_size).reason_notice())*
> 
> 
> 
> Only this class (function) only works for registered mail list, you would
> have to do to members not registered on the list?


If you are saying that a member post that is too big will be rejected by
the above, but a non-member post that is too big will be held as a post
from a non-member, this is correct.

This occurs because miscellaneous holds such as "too big" are processed
by the Hold handler but non-member actions are processed by the Moderate
handler which comes first in the pipeline.

There's not much you can do about this. Reordering the pipeline to put
Hold before Moderate is a bad idea because then other miscellaneous
holds would take precedence over membership decisions.

You could change generic_nonmember_action to Reject, but this may be
unwanted for other reasons.

Perhaps the best approach is to implement a custom handler to reject
'too big' posts and put it in the pipeline, maybe only this list's
pipeline, ahead of Moderate. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.


> And finally could be administrator or refer to the list owner's email
> rejected ?


I don't understand what you're asking? If you mean could the list owner
be sent a notice of the rejected post, then yes, that could be coded too.

If you can specify exactly what you want to happen to "too big" posts
from members, moderated members and non-members, I can help you with the
actual code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Sat Sep  6 08:49:41 2014
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 23:49:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade instructions
Message-ID: <540AAE85.7050308@whidbey.com>

I have a couple of Mailman lists on a server happily running 2.1.9 but I 
am also a moderator on a very active list that's running on 2.1.12. I do 
not host this list, just volunteer because I have some experience with 
Mailman.

That list has started to get some significant bounces due to the DMARC 
issue that isn't addressed in this older version. The host intends to 
upgrade so that we can address that but they report that they haven't 
been able to make archives searchable in their experimentation with 
2.1.16. I don't know if that search function is part of the more recent 
versions of Pipermail or if they've installed something else.

I'm nervous about attempting to upgrade, given the paucity of 
documentation for that, particularly the fact that it tells me to use 
the same configuration options I used for the current install and I 
haven't a clue what those might have been. If I could find some more 
robust upgrade docs I'd like to try the upgrade in case I could 
contribute anything to the problem with the large list.

Today I had to clear the bounce flags on 47 members. Not all that hard, 
but tedious.

Van

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Sep  6 11:31:53 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 18:31:53 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Upgrade instructions
In-Reply-To: <540AAE85.7050308@whidbey.com>
References: <540AAE85.7050308@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <87sik56qnq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

G. Armour Van Horn writes:

 > The host intends to upgrade so that we can address that but they
 > report that they haven't been able to make archives searchable in
 > their experimentation with 2.1.16.

It's worth upgrading all the way to 21.1.18-1 if at all possible.
That version provides which restricts the need to corrupt the message
to messages that need to be altered.

 > I don't know if that search function is part of the more recent
 > versions of Pipermail or if they've installed something else.

Pipermail hasn't changed in ages, and still does not provide a search
function.

There are a large number of alternatives available, ranging from
delegating the search function to sites like Google, GMane, or
mail-archive.com (which all provide different features), to installing
a different archiver, to installing a 3rd party search package like
MHonArc.  There's a fair amount of advice in the FAQ and more in the
list archives.

 > I'm nervous about attempting to upgrade, given the paucity of 
 > documentation for that, particularly the fact that it tells me to use 
 > the same configuration options I used for the current install and I 
 > haven't a clue what those might have been.

If you're speaking about the 2.1.12 list and it's a vanilla
installation (without local tweaks), either from source or by the
host's package manager, the docs are complete.  Just stop Mailman,
upgrade (using the same method as the original install), and restart.
The new Mailman will pick up the list configuration from the old
files.  The Mailman internal databases are well-designed to rarely
need any adjustment by the site admin, and it actually works that way
in practice.  The main issues arise when you change format from a
distro package to install from source or vice versa, because they set
up the package hierarchies differently.  That's why I recommend using
the same format where possible (and since the distros often trail
upstream by months on important upgrades, installing from source since
that guarantees we take responsiblity for the upgrade process if you
decide to install from source at some point).

It's possible make mistakes during the upgrade, but in general they
all have to do with the installation of the new Mailman rather than
preserving the original configuration, or with changes to
configuration that occur due to moving hosts or something like that at
the same time.

For the 2.1.9 list, I seem to recall there were a few manual
adjustments at 2.1.10 and 2.1.11 that might need to be made by someone
with direct access to the host.
Regards,


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Sep  6 16:56:49 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 07:56:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade instructions
In-Reply-To: <540AAE85.7050308@whidbey.com>
References: <540AAE85.7050308@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <540B20B1.8050903@msapiro.net>

On 09/05/2014 11:49 PM, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> 
> The host intends to
> upgrade so that we can address that but they report that they haven't
> been able to make archives searchable in their experimentation with
> 2.1.16. I don't know if that search function is part of the more recent
> versions of Pipermail or if they've installed something else.


How is the search implemented in their current version? If they are
using the patches referenced at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266554>, versions of these
patches for all recent Mailman versions can be found at
<http://www.msapiro.net/mm/>.

In any case, Archive search has never been part of Mailman's officially
released Pipermail. It has always been accomplished by third party
patches of some sort. See <http://wiki.list.org/x/MoA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From richard.ibbotson at gmail.com  Mon Sep  8 15:20:24 2014
From: richard.ibbotson at gmail.com (Richard Ibbotson)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:20:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring Exim4 with Mailman
Message-ID: <2705787.0Q8QviArJZ@sheflug.sheflug.net>

Hi

Don't if I should be asking this question here but I'll try anyway.  I 
suppose I should ask on the Exim list but I'm not sure about Mailman 
configuration.  I've read a lot of web pages about configuration and 
searched a lot with Google. I'm not getting there.

I'm setting up a Mailman list to run with Exim4.  Debian Squeeze.  In 
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py I've set these extra parameters....

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.domain.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www.domain.org'
MTA=None
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'

Is this correct ?  Do I need to add something else.  

Sending mail with ....echo "This is a test." | mail -s Testing 
richard.ibbotson at gmail.com - works for me.  Mail arrives at my Gmail 
account.  Mail arrives from - root at hostname.domain.org

My Exim4 conf file looks like this...
/etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet'
dc_other_hostnames='hostname.domain.org; hostname; 
localhost.localdomain; localhost'
dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
dc_readhost=''
dc_relay_domains=''
dc_minimaldns='false'
dc_relay_nets=''
dc_smarthost=''
CFILEMODE='644'
dc_use_split_config='false'
dc_hide_mailname=''
dc_mailname_in_oh='true'
dc_localdelivery='maildir_home'

DNS looks good.  Firewall ports opened for www and smtp and pop3.  The 
Exim4 /var/log/exim4/mainlog looks like this...


2014-09-08 13:23:51 exim 4.80 daemon started: pid=27351, -q30m, 
listening for SMTP on [127.0.0.1]:25
2014-09-08 13:53:52 1XQtTa-0004wk-10 == root at mail.domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:52 1XQwfx-0006Wr-5a == list at host.domain.org 
R=local_user T=maildir_home defer (2): No such file or directory: 
failed to chdir to /var/list
2014-09-08 13:53:52 1XQtTa-000513-Qk == root at mail.domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:52 1XQihA-0003BT-IF domain.org [178.62.38.94] 
Connection refused
2014-09-08 13:53:52 1XQihA-0003BT-IF == mailman-bounces at domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (111): Connection refused
2014-09-08 13:53:53 1XQj9j-0003eX-4z == mailman-bounces at domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:53 1XQj9j-0003eO-2H == mailman-bounces at domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:53 1XQj9i-0003eI-VE == hostname-bounces at domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:53 1XQj9j-0003eU-40 == hostname-bounces at domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:54 1XQihA-0003BV-J7 == hostname-bounces at domain.org 
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-53): retry time not reached for any 
host
2014-09-08 13:53:54 End queue run: pid=28519

Anyone see what I'm doing wrong here ?

-- 
Richard

https://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Mon Sep  8 16:42:55 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 07:42:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixing the implicit destination problems
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AeFmui=58nWB3xU_PpOD_32Qkn+G_2RFxBabTism-NuUw@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to have Mailman lists email an individual directly
instead of using an implicit destination email (for the list)? We are
getting a lot of messages blocked or ending up in spam folders.

For example, when I send an email to my_list at list.school.org all of
the 400 parents should get an email directly TO:
parent_email at gmail.com, and not TO: my_list at list.school.org

In other words I would like recipient email to be substituted by
Mailman and their email address substituted as receivers, instead of
using the implicit TO: mailing list email address.

Thanks!

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  9 03:14:37 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 18:14:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixing the implicit destination problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AeFmui=58nWB3xU_PpOD_32Qkn+G_2RFxBabTism-NuUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AeFmui=58nWB3xU_PpOD_32Qkn+G_2RFxBabTism-NuUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <540E547D.4020200@msapiro.net>

On 09/08/2014 07:42 AM, James Nightly wrote:
> 
> For example, when I send an email to my_list at list.school.org all of
> the 400 parents should get an email directly TO:
> parent_email at gmail.com, and not TO: my_list at list.school.org


Set the list's Non-digest options -> personalize to Full personalization.

If this setting does not appear as the second setting on the web admin
Non-digest options page, the Mailman site admins can enable it by putting

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in the installation's mm_cfg.py file.

It will also help improve the acceptance of your mail if the server
publishes an SPF record and DKIM signs outgoing mail and adheres to
"best practices" for configuring mail servers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  9 03:19:21 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 18:19:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring Exim4 with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <2705787.0Q8QviArJZ@sheflug.sheflug.net>
References: <2705787.0Q8QviArJZ@sheflug.sheflug.net>
Message-ID: <540E5599.70004@msapiro.net>

On 09/08/2014 06:20 AM, Richard Ibbotson wrote:
> 
> My Exim4 conf file looks like this...
> /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
> dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet'
> dc_other_hostnames='hostname.domain.org; hostname; 
> localhost.localdomain; localhost'
> dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
> dc_readhost=''
> dc_relay_domains=''
> dc_minimaldns='false'
> dc_relay_nets=''
> dc_smarthost=''
> CFILEMODE='644'
> dc_use_split_config='false'
> dc_hide_mailname=''
> dc_mailname_in_oh='true'
> dc_localdelivery='maildir_home'


See the article at <http://exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> for
information on configuring a transport and router for Mailman in Exim.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  9 10:18:30 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 17:18:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixing the implicit destination problems
In-Reply-To: <540E547D.4020200@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQH7AeFmui=58nWB3xU_PpOD_32Qkn+G_2RFxBabTism-NuUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <540E547D.4020200@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87a9696wbt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Set the list's Non-digest options -> personalize to Full personalization.

Also, if people who mail to the list are posting from @yahoo.com or
@aol.com addresses, you need to deal with DMARC.  In brief, upgrade
Mailman to 2.1.18-1 and use dmarc_moderation_action to wrap the
message or munge the From header to Yahoo/AOL's liking.  (Note that
this is a problem with *any* mail posted to a list by a Yahoo/AOL
*sender* for a large group of subscribers, who need not be Yahoo or
AOL users.  Gmail for example always puts mail from Yahoo via list
that hasn't been munged into Spam, even if it doesn't qualify as spam
on any other metric.)

Regards,

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Tue Sep  9 17:03:58 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 08:03:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe footer?
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AcvfD15rDOsrFXaXqRgvvpvXoAquKMAUYCALxybVwWQXw@mail.gmail.com>

Somehow I managed to remove unsubscribe footer in my mailing list. Is
it possible to append to all lists instructions on how to unsubscribe?
I'm hoping subscribers can send 'remove' email to an address and get
removed from the list automatically.

From ayma at tip.nl  Tue Sep  9 15:47:23 2014
From: ayma at tip.nl (A.K. Eyma)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 15:47:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admins
Message-ID: <540F04EB.7020709@tip.nl>


Hello,

I'm new here, so not sure if this is appropriate:

In regards to FAQ 3.27:

Am I the only one who would find it extremely helpful if duties
could be better split? Certainly for large lists. That is:

Owners = who can determine the list's configuration
Admins = who handle subscriptions and bounces
Moderators = who handle list messages

If needed admin/mod could be combined as one.

Or alternatively, that you can specify an email address
for each Notification?

The current problem is that in academic lists, the
owner/sponsor of a forum often needs to be an University
staff member, who however would delegate daily running to
students etc (mods). But with Mailman, on a bad day, the poor
Prof would get 70 messages per day (bounces, subscription,
approvals, etc). It's not workable IMHO (I'm a mod BTW).

AFAICT in the present system, reducing mail to an owner can
only be done by setting admin_immed_notify, 
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner,
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable, and
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal,
(and a few more)
to NO, which is clearly not an ideal solution...well, no solution
at all, really.

Any thoughts?
Any chance of this duties seperation [i.e. owners are n?t
automatically mods], being implemented in future versions?

Best regards,
Aayko






From cruell at climatenetwork.org  Tue Sep  9 05:14:11 2014
From: cruell at climatenetwork.org (Charlene Ruell)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:14:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing information required for subscription
Message-ID: <014301cfcbdc$20ae2100$620a6300$@climatenetwork.org>

Hello all,

 

I am working with a non-profit organization to establish a new home for our
plethora of mailing lists. Mailman has quite a few features that we are
hoping will automate our currently labour intensive process. 

 

Currently, part of our subscription process involves gathering additional
information, such as which one of our member organizations the person
requesting access if from. We then match this information to our records and
subscribe those who are eligible. I have looked through all of the
documentation for Mailman and have not been able to find if there are
customizable fields for the subscription process. Does this exist? If not,
does anyone have any suggestions on how I might integrate such information
with the subscription process?

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

Warm Regards,

Charlene Ruell

______________________________________

Charlene Ruell

Program Assistant

Climate Action Network-International (CAN)

skype: charlene.ruell

 <mailto:cruell at climatenetwork.org> cruell at climatenetwork.org

 



 <http://www.climatenetwork.org/> www.climatenetwork.org 

 <http://www.facebook.com/CANInternational>
www.facebook.com/CANInternational 

Twitter: @CANIntl

Subscribe to the ECO newsletter:
<http://climatenetwork.org/eco-newsletters>
http://climatenetwork.org/eco-newsletters 

 


From matt at numenta.org  Tue Sep  9 18:47:59 2014
From: matt at numenta.org (Matthew Taylor)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:47:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC
	problems
Message-ID: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I'm a Mailman administrator for the lists at http://numenta.org/lists.
Recently, we had DMARC problems with Google servers, and my provider
(EMWD) gave me the following actions to take:

http://clientarea.emwd.com/knowledgebase/60/DMARC-and-Mailman.html

We ended up moving the lists to a VPS with the new settings.

Many of our users are upset that I've removed the subject_prefix from
the list emails, but I'm afraid that putting them back in might cause
the same problems, given the advice from EMWD in the link above:

"2.  Turn off Content filtering, and Reply-To: header munging and
remove subject_prefix, msg_header and msg_footer so Mailman doesn't
make message modifications that break Yahoo's DKIM signature."

Is it safe to add back the subject_prefix to my lists?

Thank you,
---------
Matt Taylor
OS Community Flag-Bearer
Numenta

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  9 19:40:18 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 02:40:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new
	DMARC	problems
In-Reply-To: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tx4g66bh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Matthew Taylor writes:

 > Is it safe to add back the subject_prefix to my lists?

No.

You can do it, but DKIM will break for the DMARC p=reject senders I
know of (ie, AOL and Yahoo!).  Then you will need to do something else
to mitigate the problem, such as use the dmarc_moderation_action
option in the most recent Mailman release to get yahoo.com and/or
aol.com addresses out of the From header.  (This is effective because
DMARC triggers on the From address.)

This has two disadvantages.  First, it becomes hard to reply to such
messages.  We do tweak the Reply-To header (which usually does NOT
affect DKIM, but could in theory), but it's not possible to get even a
majority of MUAs to DTRT.  Many users are going to lose on either
Reply-To-Author or Reply-To-All.  Depending on how users use the list,
this may or may not be a big problem.

Second, since it only happens to AOL and Yahoo! posters, they often
complain that they're being discriminated against.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep  9 19:48:40 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 02:48:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing information required for subscription
In-Reply-To: <014301cfcbdc$20ae2100$620a6300$@climatenetwork.org>
References: <014301cfcbdc$20ae2100$620a6300$@climatenetwork.org>
Message-ID: <87sik065xj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Charlene Ruell writes:

 > Currently, part of our subscription process involves gathering
 > additional information, such as which one of our member
 > organizations the person requesting access if from. We then match
 > this information to our records and subscribe those who are
 > eligible. I have looked through all of the documentation for
 > Mailman and have not been able to find if there are customizable
 > fields for the subscription process. Does this exist? If not, does
 > anyone have any suggestions on how I might integrate such
 > information with the subscription process?

The Systers have a similar requirement (not all that similar
semantically - they want their new members to write an essay
describing themselves that gets posted to a website or something like
that - but the implementation is probably similar).  They have a fork
of Mailman 2 that implements this feature, among others.

Try writing to systers-dev at systers.org, and tell them I sent you.

Steve


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep  9 19:48:35 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:48:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing information required for
	subscription
In-Reply-To: <014301cfcbdc$20ae2100$620a6300$@climatenetwork.org>
References: <014301cfcbdc$20ae2100$620a6300$@climatenetwork.org>
Message-ID: <540F3D73.1070604@msapiro.net>

On 09/08/2014 08:14 PM, Charlene Ruell wrote:
> 
> Currently, part of our subscription process involves gathering additional
> information, such as which one of our member organizations the person
> requesting access if from. We then match this information to our records and
> subscribe those who are eligible. I have looked through all of the
> documentation for Mailman and have not been able to find if there are
> customizable fields for the subscription process. Does this exist? If not,
> does anyone have any suggestions on how I might integrate such information
> with the subscription process?


For Mailman 2.1.x at least, there is no provision for storing/retrieving
additional information beyond the user's email address and 'real name'.

You could make your own subscribe form (see
<http://wiki.list.org/x/hIA9>) and collect the information there. You
could either store this information outside of Mailman, or perhaps you
could use something like the MySQL MamberAdaptor
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558093> to store membership
info in a MySQL database and update that directly with your own
subscription process.

Mailman 3 makes some of this easier as it stores member information in a
real database, but it isn't quite yet ready for prime time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From khbkhb at gmail.com  Tue Sep  9 21:11:50 2014
From: khbkhb at gmail.com (Keith Bierman)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 13:11:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admins
In-Reply-To: <540F04EB.7020709@tip.nl>
References: <540F04EB.7020709@tip.nl>
Message-ID: <CAHSokPzODCb20U7ji2O3wXC1YUy0-iY84=gJG+C174POx_gk3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Since the messages have set forms, it should be "easy" to filter the
various  bounce and membership requests and route accordingly.

Not ideal, but as long as the ownership password(s) are not the professor's
usual passwords, he should be able to delegate to an appropriate grad
student (even if the professor insists on using his own email
account...having all administration go to a delegated email account ... or
a special forwarding account with filtered forwarding) is what I'd do in
your situation.

Keith Bierman
khbkhb at gmail.com
kbiermank AIM
303 997 2749


On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 7:47 AM, A.K. Eyma <ayma at tip.nl> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I'm new here, so not sure if this is appropriate:
>
> In regards to FAQ 3.27:
>
> Am I the only one who would find it extremely helpful if duties
> could be better split? Certainly for large lists. That is:
>
> Owners = who can determine the list's configuration
> Admins = who handle subscriptions and bounces
> Moderators = who handle list messages
>
> If needed admin/mod could be combined as one.
>
> Or alternatively, that you can specify an email address
> for each Notification?
>
> The current problem is that in academic lists, the
> owner/sponsor of a forum often needs to be an University
> staff member, who however would delegate daily running to
> students etc (mods). But with Mailman, on a bad day, the poor
> Prof would get 70 messages per day (bounces, subscription,
> approvals, etc). It's not workable IMHO (I'm a mod BTW).
>
> AFAICT in the present system, reducing mail to an owner can
> only be done by setting admin_immed_notify, bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_
> list_owner,
> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable, and
> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal,
> (and a few more)
> to NO, which is clearly not an ideal solution...well, no solution
> at all, really.
>
> Any thoughts?
> Any chance of this duties seperation [i.e. owners are n?t
> automatically mods], being implemented in future versions?
>
> Best regards,
> Aayko
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> khbkhb%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 10 00:17:39 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 15:17:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admins
In-Reply-To: <540F04EB.7020709@tip.nl>
References: <540F04EB.7020709@tip.nl>
Message-ID: <540F7C83.6040803@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2014 06:47 AM, A.K. Eyma wrote:
> 
> Any chance of this duties seperation [i.e. owners are n?t
> automatically mods], being implemented in future versions?


I don't think this will happen in Mailman 2.1, but it is something we
could consider for Mailman 3. It might get more attention if you post a
proposal to mailman-developers at python.org.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 10 00:58:37 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 15:58:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe footer?
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AcvfD15rDOsrFXaXqRgvvpvXoAquKMAUYCALxybVwWQXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AcvfD15rDOsrFXaXqRgvvpvXoAquKMAUYCALxybVwWQXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <540F861D.9070100@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2014 08:03 AM, James Nightly wrote:
> Somehow I managed to remove unsubscribe footer in my mailing list. Is
> it possible to append to all lists instructions on how to unsubscribe?
> I'm hoping subscribers can send 'remove' email to an address and get
> removed from the list automatically.


You can put things like

Unsubscribe: <mailto:%(list_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s>

and

Unsubscribe: <%(web_page_url)s/options/%(list_name)s>

in Non-digest options - msg_footer and Digest options - digest_footer.

Potential issues with this are:

1. These things are included in text/plain message parts and may or may
not render as 'clickable links' depending on the user's mail client.

2. Due to forwarding and other issues, the users may not receive list
mail at their subscribed address and may not even know it.

3. Either mailing the -unsubscribe address or going to the options URL,
filling in one's email address and clicking unsubscribe results in a
confirmation email being sent to the user which requires a affirmative
action before the user is actually unsubscribed.

If the list is personalized, you can put in msg_footer things like

Unsubscribe: <%(user_optionsurl)s?login-unsub=1>

to avoid issue 2, or even

Unsubscribe: <%(user_optionsurl)s?password=%(user_password)s&login-unsub=1>

(all on one line)

to avoid both 2 and 3, although including the user's password in this
footer is generally a bad idea both because users will complain about
their list password being emailed in plain text and users will not
remove the quoted link when forwarding or replying, thus exposing their
passwords.

Note you can't put the personalizations in digest_footer because digests
are never personalized.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Wed Sep 10 04:04:14 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:04:14 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new
	DMARC	problems
In-Reply-To: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>

Matthew Taylor wrote:
> Many of our users are upset that I've removed the 
> subject_prefix from the list emails, but I'm afraid that 
> putting them back in might cause the same problems, given the 
> advice from EMWD in the link above:
> 
> "2.  Turn off Content filtering, and Reply-To: header munging 
> and remove subject_prefix, msg_header and msg_footer so 
> Mailman doesn't make message modifications that break Yahoo's 
> DKIM signature."

Shouldn't there be an "or" between 1. and 2? I would have thought if you've followed the advice in 1. then 2. shouldn't be necessary. That's what we've done, and it's working ok.

Peter Shute

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 10 04:32:29 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 19:32:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC
 problems
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2014 07:04 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> 
> Shouldn't there be an "or" between 1. and 2? I would have thought if you've followed the advice in 1. then 2. shouldn't be necessary. That's what we've done, and it's working ok.

Regarding
<http://clientarea.emwd.com/knowledgebase/60/DMARC-and-Mailman.html>:

That's correct.  If you apply any of the DMARC mitigations (from_is_list
or dmarc_moderation_action) available in the 2.1.18 Mailman release, you
don't need to do any of the things in item 2 at the above link.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Sep 10 05:02:56 2014
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 23:02:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC
	problems
In-Reply-To: <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>
 <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <3b5301cfcca3$b8f2f720$2ad8e560$@emwd.com>

> > Shouldn't there be an "or" between 1. and 2? I would have thought if
> you've followed the advice in 1. then 2. shouldn't be necessary. That's
what
> we've done, and it's working ok.
> 
> Regarding
> <http://clientarea.emwd.com/knowledgebase/60/DMARC-and-
> Mailman.html>:
> 
> That's correct.  If you apply any of the DMARC mitigations (from_is_list
> or dmarc_moderation_action) available in the 2.1.18 Mailman release, you
> don't need to do any of the things in item 2 at the above link.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for pointing that out. I have made the correction. Sorry for the
confusion.


Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.

T: 336.755.0685
E: brian at emwd.com
www.emwd.com


From matt at numenta.org  Wed Sep 10 05:45:43 2014
From: matt at numenta.org (Matthew Taylor)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 20:45:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC
	problems
In-Reply-To: <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>
 <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAJv6nDMEbHk=gemiZmXhZfwmidS5n1UKCwVU29fdhmP04QGt=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 09/09/2014 07:04 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
>>
>> Shouldn't there be an "or" between 1. and 2? I would have thought if you've followed the advice in 1. then 2. shouldn't be necessary. That's what we've done, and it's working ok.
>
> Regarding
> <http://clientarea.emwd.com/knowledgebase/60/DMARC-and-Mailman.html>:
>
> That's correct.  If you apply any of the DMARC mitigations (from_is_list
> or dmarc_moderation_action) available in the 2.1.18 Mailman release, you
> don't need to do any of the things in item 2 at the above link.

So if I go with option #1, I can add back the subject_prefix value?

---------
Matt Taylor
OS Community Flag-Bearer
Numenta

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 10 05:47:35 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 20:47:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC
 problems
In-Reply-To: <CAJv6nDMEbHk=gemiZmXhZfwmidS5n1UKCwVU29fdhmP04QGt=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>
 <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>
 <CAJv6nDMEbHk=gemiZmXhZfwmidS5n1UKCwVU29fdhmP04QGt=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <540FC9D7.4050807@msapiro.net>

On 09/09/2014 08:45 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote:
> 
> So if I go with option #1, I can add back the subject_prefix value?


Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Sep 10 05:53:25 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:53:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admins
In-Reply-To: <540F7C83.6040803@msapiro.net>
References: <540F04EB.7020709@tip.nl>
	<540F7C83.6040803@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <87mwa85dxm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > it is something we could consider for Mailman 3. It might get more
 > attention if you post a proposal to mailman-developers at python.org.

"ACLs" or "capabilities" (cf. Linux kernel, origin maybe Plan 9?) for
Mailman admin might be an interesting GSoC.

Note that at present our web interface (Postorius) for Mailman 3 is
done in Django.  It might be as simple as cooking up an ACL table in
the database, and a permissions decorator with a bit of introspection
to find the ACL for the view.

Steve

From matt at numenta.org  Wed Sep 10 05:48:30 2014
From: matt at numenta.org (Matthew Taylor)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 20:48:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC
	problems
In-Reply-To: <540FC9D7.4050807@msapiro.net>
References: <CAJv6nDNKcX=3S7HXiuXthN7Nk4Ae_zRrVW9L5Zsm8XGuvvgv6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894AB@nuwvicms2>
 <540FB83D.80507@msapiro.net>
 <CAJv6nDMEbHk=gemiZmXhZfwmidS5n1UKCwVU29fdhmP04QGt=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <540FC9D7.4050807@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAJv6nDPhL-QDMXYafJ13QjRGuONRL_n0+fFJrm1FOi296PXw=g@mail.gmail.com>

That's great. Thanks for all the help!
---------
Matt Taylor
OS Community Flag-Bearer
Numenta


On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 09/09/2014 08:45 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote:
>>
>> So if I go with option #1, I can add back the subject_prefix value?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From akgul at bilkent.edu.tr  Wed Sep 10 23:18:11 2014
From: akgul at bilkent.edu.tr (Mustafa Akgul)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:18:11 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] localhost.localdomain problem
Message-ID: <83a7765317f70a837b1d3fc34c8d6445.squirrel@newmail.bilkent.edu.tr>

I am  running  mailman  lists on several machines,  whixh are mostly
debian and solaris.

I have once  virtual machine which is debian also.  debian 7  with kernel
Linux listweb 2.6.32-29-pve #1 SMP Thu Apr 24 10:03:02 CEST 2014 x86_64
GNU/Linux
from dpkg -l
mailman                         1:2.1.15-1                    amd64

I have setup a list say math,  it  distrobutes  messages OK
but on moderation page  any  request to accept, deny fail  with

Firefox can't find the server at localhost.localdomain.

servername  in the URL becomes localhost.localdomain

and telnet localhost 80  and telnet localhost.localdomain 80  are OK

any ideas / suggestions

Regards

Mustafa Akgul






From exim4debian at gmail.com  Thu Sep 11 00:27:12 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:27:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrative requests for mailing list failing
Message-ID: <CAAQH7Afx1m9ffn1iVQm596OQZpitFvacQRfX-NZ=JZXjMdFThw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm unable to approve, discard, or do anything on the administrative
requests for mailing list. Selecting any of the options for an email
that's held for approval (and clicking on Submit All Data) simply
refreshes the page and the emails and all admin requests are still on
the page. I'm not sure how to troubleshoot this, if its apache/exim4,
what log to check...

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 11 00:45:18 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:45:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrative requests for mailing list failing
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7Afx1m9ffn1iVQm596OQZpitFvacQRfX-NZ=JZXjMdFThw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7Afx1m9ffn1iVQm596OQZpitFvacQRfX-NZ=JZXjMdFThw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5410D47E.4050108@msapiro.net>

On 09/10/2014 03:27 PM, James Nightly wrote:
> I'm unable to approve, discard, or do anything on the administrative
> requests for mailing list. Selecting any of the options for an email
> that's held for approval (and clicking on Submit All Data) simply
> refreshes the page and the emails and all admin requests are still on
> the page. I'm not sure how to troubleshoot this, if its apache/exim4,
> what log to check...


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 11 00:49:44 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:49:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] localhost.localdomain problem
In-Reply-To: <83a7765317f70a837b1d3fc34c8d6445.squirrel@newmail.bilkent.edu.tr>
References: <83a7765317f70a837b1d3fc34c8d6445.squirrel@newmail.bilkent.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <5410D588.1080000@msapiro.net>

On 09/10/2014 02:18 PM, Mustafa Akgul wrote:
> 
> I have setup a list say math,  it  distrobutes  messages OK
> but on moderation page  any  request to accept, deny fail  with
> 
> Firefox can't find the server at localhost.localdomain.
> 
> servername  in the URL becomes localhost.localdomain


Set DEFAULT_URL_HOST appropriately in mm_cfg.py and run fix_url. See the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Thu Sep 11 22:50:41 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 13:50:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4... sorry to ask...
Message-ID: <CAAQH7Ac7Jg2EG+ohr__jOT2UpMDsOVQ9iawDmvCjfgSn3uyS5Q@mail.gmail.com>

I have routes and transport setup in Exim4. Its driving me crazy. I
keep getting the same rejected RCPT Unrouteable address and I don't
know why.

exim4 -bt mailman at lists.myschool.org
R: system_aliases for mailman at lists.myschool.org
mailman at lists.myschool.org is undeliverable: Unrouteable address

Any tips or suggestions where to look, I've been at it for days now...

exim -C /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template -bV
Exim version 4.84 #3 built 29-Aug-2014 18:08:29
Copyright (c) University of Cambridge, 1995 - 2014
(c) The Exim Maintainers and contributors in ACKNOWLEDGMENTS file, 2007 - 2014
Berkeley DB: Berkeley DB 5.3.28: (September  9, 2013)
Support for: crypteq iconv() IPv6 GnuTLS move_frozen_messages DKIM PRDR OCSP
Lookups (built-in): lsearch wildlsearch nwildlsearch iplsearch cdb dbm
dbmjz dbmnz dnsdb dsearch nis nis0 passwd
Authenticators: cram_md5 plaintext
Routers: accept dnslookup ipliteral manualroute queryprogram redirect
Transports: appendfile/maildir/mailstore autoreply lmtp pipe smtp
Fixed never_users: 0
Size of off_t: 8
Configuration file is /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template

220 lists.myschool.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:27:26 -0700 [5756 ms]
EHLO MXTB-PWS3.mxtoolbox.com
250-lists.myschool.org Hello mxtb-pws3.mxtoolbox.com [64.20.227.133]
250-SIZE 52428800
250-8BITMIME
250-PIPELINING
250 HELP [671 ms]
MAIL FROM: <supertool at mxtoolbox.com>
250 OK [671 ms]
RCPT TO: <test at example.com>
550 relay not permitted [686 ms]

MXTB-PWS3v2 8674ms

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Thu Sep 11 22:57:39 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 13:57:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4... sorry to ask...
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7Ac7Jg2EG+ohr__jOT2UpMDsOVQ9iawDmvCjfgSn3uyS5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7Ac7Jg2EG+ohr__jOT2UpMDsOVQ9iawDmvCjfgSn3uyS5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AdZE=vauX0c8QaJXBcd3amubzOn+u3tLkA+iqo1_nMQKQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know how interpret this but here its a more detailed exim log

exim -bt -d mailman at lists.myschool.org 2>&1
Exim version 4.84 uid=0 gid=0 pid=8836 D=fbb95cfd
Berkeley DB: Berkeley DB 5.3.28: (September  9, 2013)
Support for: crypteq iconv() IPv6 GnuTLS move_frozen_messages DKIM PRDR OCSP
Lookups (built-in): lsearch wildlsearch nwildlsearch iplsearch cdb dbm
dbmjz dbmnz dnsdb dsearch nis nis0 passwd
Authenticators: cram_md5 plaintext
Routers: accept dnslookup ipliteral manualroute queryprogram redirect
Transports: appendfile/maildir/mailstore autoreply lmtp pipe smtp
Fixed never_users: 0
Size of off_t: 8
Compiler: GCC [4.9.1]
Library version: GnuTLS: Compile: 3.3.6
                         Runtime: 3.3.7
Library version: PCRE: Compile: 8.35
                       Runtime: 8.35 2014-04-04
Total 13 lookups
WHITELIST_D_MACROS: "OUTGOING"
TRUSTED_CONFIG_LIST: "/etc/exim4/trusted_configs"
changed uid/gid: forcing real = effective
  uid=0 gid=0 pid=8836
  auxiliary group list: <none>
seeking password data for user "uucp": cache not available
getpwnam() succeeded uid=10 gid=10
changed uid/gid: calling tls_validate_require_cipher
  uid=101 gid=103 pid=8837
  auxiliary group list: <none>
tls_validate_require_cipher child 8837 ended: status=0x0
configuration file is /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated
log selectors = 00000ffc 00632001
trusted user
admin user
seeking password data for user "mail": cache not available
getpwnam() succeeded uid=8 gid=8
seeking password data for user "list": cache not available
getpwnam() succeeded uid=38 gid=38
user name "root" extracted from gecos field "root"
originator: uid=0 gid=0 login=root name=root
sender address = root at lists.myschool.org
Address testing: uid=0 gid=103 euid=0 egid=103
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Testing mailman at lists.myschool.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Considering mailman at lists.myschool.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
routing mailman at lists.myschool.org
--------> hubbed_hosts router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
expansion of "${if
exists{/etc/exim4/hubbed_hosts}{partial-lsearch;/etc/exim4/hubbed_hosts}fail}"
forced failure: assume not in this list
hubbed_hosts router skipped: domains mismatch
--------> dnslookup_relay_to_domains router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
lists.myschool.org in "@:localhost"? yes (matched "@")
lists.myschool.org in "! +local_domains : +relay_to_domains"? no
(matched "! +local_domains")
dnslookup_relay_to_domains router skipped: domains mismatch
--------> dnslookup router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "! +local_domains"? no (matched "!
+local_domains" - cached)
dnslookup router skipped: domains mismatch
--------> real_local router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
real_local router skipped: prefix mismatch
--------> system_aliases router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
R: system_aliases for mailman at lists.myschool.org
calling system_aliases router
rda_interpret (string): ${lookup{$local_part}lsearch{/etc/aliases}}
search_open: lsearch "/etc/aliases"
search_find: file="/etc/aliases"
  key="mailman" partial=-1 affix=NULL starflags=0
LRU list:
  7/etc/aliases
  End
internal_search_find: file="/etc/aliases"
  type=lsearch key="mailman"
file lookup required for mailman
  in /etc/aliases
lookup failed
expanded:
file is not a filter file
parse_forward_list:
system_aliases router declined for mailman at lists.myschool.org
--------> mailman_router router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
lists.myschool.org in "list.myschool.org"? no (end of list)
lists.myschool.org in "+mm_domains"? no (end of list)
mailman_router router skipped: domains mismatch
--------> userforward router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
checking for local user
seeking password data for user "mailman": cache not available
getpwnam() returned NULL (user not found)
userforward router skipped: mailman is not a local user
--------> procmail router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
checking for local user
seeking password data for user "mailman": using cached result
getpwnam() returned NULL (user not found)
procmail router skipped: mailman is not a local user
--------> maildrop router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
checking for local user
seeking password data for user "mailman": using cached result
getpwnam() returned NULL (user not found)
maildrop router skipped: mailman is not a local user
--------> lowuid_aliases router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
checking for local user
seeking password data for user "mailman": using cached result
getpwnam() returned NULL (user not found)
lowuid_aliases router skipped: mailman is not a local user
--------> local_user router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
checking local_parts
mailman in "! root"? yes (end of list)
checking for local user
seeking password data for user "mailman": using cached result
getpwnam() returned NULL (user not found)
local_user router skipped: mailman is not a local user
--------> mail4root router <--------
local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
lists.myschool.org in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" - cached)
checking local_parts
mailman in "root"? no (end of list)
mail4root router skipped: local_parts mismatch
no more routers
mailman at lists.myschool.org is undeliverable: Unrouteable address
search_tidyup called
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exim pid=8836 terminating with rc=2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM, James Nightly <exim4debian at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have routes and transport setup in Exim4. Its driving me crazy. I
> keep getting the same rejected RCPT Unrouteable address and I don't
> know why.
>
> exim4 -bt mailman at lists.myschool.org
> R: system_aliases for mailman at lists.myschool.org
> mailman at lists.myschool.org is undeliverable: Unrouteable address
>
> Any tips or suggestions where to look, I've been at it for days now...
>
> exim -C /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template -bV
> Exim version 4.84 #3 built 29-Aug-2014 18:08:29
> Copyright (c) University of Cambridge, 1995 - 2014
> (c) The Exim Maintainers and contributors in ACKNOWLEDGMENTS file, 2007 - 2014
> Berkeley DB: Berkeley DB 5.3.28: (September  9, 2013)
> Support for: crypteq iconv() IPv6 GnuTLS move_frozen_messages DKIM PRDR OCSP
> Lookups (built-in): lsearch wildlsearch nwildlsearch iplsearch cdb dbm
> dbmjz dbmnz dnsdb dsearch nis nis0 passwd
> Authenticators: cram_md5 plaintext
> Routers: accept dnslookup ipliteral manualroute queryprogram redirect
> Transports: appendfile/maildir/mailstore autoreply lmtp pipe smtp
> Fixed never_users: 0
> Size of off_t: 8
> Configuration file is /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template
>
> 220 lists.myschool.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:27:26 -0700 [5756 ms]
> EHLO MXTB-PWS3.mxtoolbox.com
> 250-lists.myschool.org Hello mxtb-pws3.mxtoolbox.com [64.20.227.133]
> 250-SIZE 52428800
> 250-8BITMIME
> 250-PIPELINING
> 250 HELP [671 ms]
> MAIL FROM: <supertool at mxtoolbox.com>
> 250 OK [671 ms]
> RCPT TO: <test at example.com>
> 550 relay not permitted [686 ms]
>
> MXTB-PWS3v2 8674ms

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Fri Sep 12 00:14:16 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:14:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving to a new server -- pipe new_list options?
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AfnGs+utErr0va6ZhJo0y=ZPTXySkkkfke07wxEJe-wXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to pipe new_list options for owner and password? Something
like this: new_list name_of_list | owner_email at school.org | password

I have list_lists and am trying to recreate all of these lists on the new
server.

Thanks!

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 12 02:17:01 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4... sorry to ask...
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AdZE=vauX0c8QaJXBcd3amubzOn+u3tLkA+iqo1_nMQKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7Ac7Jg2EG+ohr__jOT2UpMDsOVQ9iawDmvCjfgSn3uyS5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAQH7AdZE=vauX0c8QaJXBcd3amubzOn+u3tLkA+iqo1_nMQKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54123B7D.3040109@msapiro.net>

On 09/11/2014 01:57 PM, James Nightly wrote:
> I don't know how interpret this but here its a more detailed exim log
> 
...
> --------> mailman_router router <--------
> local_part=mailman domain=lists.myschool.org
> checking domains
> lists.myschool.org in "list.myschool.org"? no (end of list)
> lists.myschool.org in "+mm_domains"? no (end of list)
> mailman_router router skipped: domains mismatch


Have you seen the article at <http://exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>?

In any case, I can't tell for sure what's going on because of your host
name munging, but Exim is checking the domain of the address to see if
it either matches list.myschool.org or something in the domain list
mm_domains. It finds no match, possibly because "lists" != "list".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 12 02:23:43 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:23:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving to a new server -- pipe new_list options?
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AfnGs+utErr0va6ZhJo0y=ZPTXySkkkfke07wxEJe-wXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AfnGs+utErr0va6ZhJo0y=ZPTXySkkkfke07wxEJe-wXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54123D0F.3060303@msapiro.net>

On 09/11/2014 03:14 PM, James Nightly wrote:
> Is it possible to pipe new_list options for owner and password? Something
> like this: new_list name_of_list | owner_email at school.org | password


What you have written makes no sense, and I am unsure what you are
actually trying to accomplish with this so I can't comment further on it.


> I have list_lists and am trying to recreate all of these lists on the new
> server.


Why don't you just move the lists per <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9> and
posts linked therefrom.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Fri Sep 12 02:34:16 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:34:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving to a new server -- pipe new_list options?
In-Reply-To: <54123D0F.3060303@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQH7AfnGs+utErr0va6ZhJo0y=ZPTXySkkkfke07wxEJe-wXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54123D0F.3060303@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AewvSdqm2zqf7D6U99HSz8dPUh2726N0wg1UJXTAKSC=w@mail.gmail.com>

I was so close with that one. Removing pipes from the command worked
perfectly.

To create new list and add owner email and password this one liner works
perfectly:
newlist list-name owner at email.com password


On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 09/11/2014 03:14 PM, James Nightly wrote:
> > Is it possible to pipe new_list options for owner and password? Something
> > like this: new_list name_of_list | owner_email at school.org | password
>
>
> What you have written makes no sense, and I am unsure what you are
> actually trying to accomplish with this so I can't comment further on it.
>
>
> > I have list_lists and am trying to recreate all of these lists on the new
> > server.
>
>
> Why don't you just move the lists per <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9> and
> posts linked therefrom.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/exim4debian%40gmail.com
>

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Fri Sep 12 03:47:06 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:47:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain name alias, two domains on one MM?
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AemnOY7OzvCiqufODdLzjM6gSNwvva59T=_GoyBJ3GXkA@mail.gmail.com>

We have two domains. Is it possible to setup MM to deliver all messages
from list.old_domain.org and list.new_domain.org to one list (on
new_domain.org)?

For example, a message sent to list_name at list.old_domain.org would be
delivered to list_name at list.new_domain.org?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions! :(

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 12 04:10:22 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:10:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain name alias, two domains on one MM?
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AemnOY7OzvCiqufODdLzjM6gSNwvva59T=_GoyBJ3GXkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AemnOY7OzvCiqufODdLzjM6gSNwvva59T=_GoyBJ3GXkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5412560E.7070602@msapiro.net>

On 09/11/2014 06:47 PM, James Nightly wrote:
> We have two domains. Is it possible to setup MM to deliver all messages
> from list.old_domain.org and list.new_domain.org to one list (on
> new_domain.org)?
> 
> For example, a message sent to list_name at list.old_domain.org would be
> delivered to list_name at list.new_domain.org?


You don't have to do anything in Mailman as long as the list names are
the same.

You need to arrange for the MTA which is the MX for list.old_domain.org
to relay all mail for that domain to the MX for list.new_domain.org, and
for the MTA on list.new_domain.org to accept and deliver the mail
appropriately.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jeherul at gmail.com  Fri Sep 12 14:06:39 2014
From: jeherul at gmail.com (JEHERUL)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:36:39 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing user subscription for only my domain
	(particular domain) globaly
Message-ID: <CAMG8x_OR=ToO-KTAhZem5GwyWqwadzq3Zmi+vs=rN5K0+V=0JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I have configured mailman for my institute. But due to some security issue
I dont like to allow users to subscribe by other
email id (like gmail , yahoo ..etc). I only want users to subscribe with my
institute email id.

I am able to do this for a particular list using privacy option---> ban
list (using regex).

But I want to do it globally for all the list. How can I do it??

Thanking you for your time and sharing.

Regards
-- 
Jeherul Islam
Scientific Officer
Computer Centre
Indian Institute of Technology Guwahati
Guwahati-39
India
Office No :+91-361-258-3353

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 12 16:36:17 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 07:36:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing user subscription for only my domain
 (particular domain) globaly
In-Reply-To: <CAMG8x_OR=ToO-KTAhZem5GwyWqwadzq3Zmi+vs=rN5K0+V=0JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMG8x_OR=ToO-KTAhZem5GwyWqwadzq3Zmi+vs=rN5K0+V=0JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541304E1.3070003@msapiro.net>

On 09/12/2014 05:06 AM, JEHERUL wrote:
> 
> I am able to do this for a particular list using privacy option---> ban
> list (using regex).
> 
> But I want to do it globally for all the list. How can I do it??


There are other ways, but see the script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/add_banned.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/add_banned.py>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cstuder at existenz.ch  Sun Sep 14 13:26:47 2014
From: cstuder at existenz.ch (christian studer)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:26:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
Message-ID: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm unable to figure out if there's a configuration option to inform a
sender that a moderated message of him has been approved. Is this
functionality available in Mailman 2.1?

Thank you,
  christian

-- 
http://hymnos.existenz.ch
(In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)

From cstuder at existenz.ch  Sun Sep 14 13:22:44 2014
From: cstuder at existenz.ch (christian studer)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:22:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
Message-ID: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm maintaining and moderating a couple of Mailman lists and when I was
looking for an easy moderation tool, I've stumpled upon 'Mailman Moderator'
for iOS [1]. Unfortunately the app isn't quite stable [2] and the original
programmer isn't working on it anymore.

After exchanging a couple of mails, he agreed to open source it here (MIT
licensed):
  https://github.com/JanMisker/MailmanModerator-iOS

Maybe somebody else will pick it up and polish it a little.

With kind regards,
  christian

[1]: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mailman-moderator/id349100180?ls=1&mt=8

[2]: It often crashes after moderation, no loading indicator, setup is
finicky (If you're not putting the base url exactly to
admindb/mailinglistname, it fails), the icon could be nicer.

-- 
http://hymnos.existenz.ch
(In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Sep 14 19:53:06 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:53:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>

On 09/14/2014 04:26 AM, christian studer wrote:
> 
> I'm unable to figure out if there's a configuration option to inform a
> sender that a moderated message of him has been approved. Is this
> functionality available in Mailman 2.1?


There is no explicit option per se, but the sender should receive a copy
of the post or an acknowledgment if the sender's "Receive
acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?" option is Yes, at
least if the sender is a list member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cpz at tuunq.com  Sun Sep 14 20:08:09 2014
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:08:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5415D989.2010402@tuunq.com>

On 9/14/2014 10:53 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There is no explicit option per se, but the sender should receive a copy
> of the post or an acknowledgment if the sender's "Receive
> acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?" option is Yes, at
> least if the sender is a list member.

Unless the sender is using gmail and it decides to filter them out.

z!


From pshute at nuw.org.au  Mon Sep 15 00:15:14 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:15:14 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2059571-DF83-4C6F-A57E-0E5DFC748C4D@nuw.org.au>

I hope someone does. I tried that one too, and found it unreliable in terms of not always showing all the messages available for moderation, and I suspect sometimes approving a different one to the one I selected.

There was apparently another app, iModerate by Manuel Weiel, but it's no longer available in the App Store because he's stopped paying the annual developer fee. This is something that's going to have to be done by anyone who takes on Mailman Moderator.

I assume these apps are aimed mainly at iPhone users because of the small screen. But even on an iPad I find it extremely frustrating because Safari and every other browser I've tried appear to close the app when it's been in the background for a while, which expires the login cookie, which means logging in again. IOS 6 didn't do this anywhere near as much as iOS 7. Perhaps iOS 8 will be better, or perhaps it will be even worse.

I couldn't get any browsers to remember the password either. It appears they need a username as well as a password to trigger the save prompt. My current solution is to use LastPass Tab as the browser. At least it offers a way to save the password, even if it is convoluted.

I wonder if a better way to make Mailman more accessible on either iphone or ipad would be to create a browser with password saving and just rearranging the existing pages with style sheets, it that's possible.

Peter Shute

Sent from my iPad

> On 15 Sep 2014, at 3:35 am, "christian studer" <cstuder at existenz.ch> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm maintaining and moderating a couple of Mailman lists and when I was
> looking for an easy moderation tool, I've stumpled upon 'Mailman Moderator'
> for iOS [1]. Unfortunately the app isn't quite stable [2] and the original
> programmer isn't working on it anymore.
> 
> After exchanging a couple of mails, he agreed to open source it here (MIT
> licensed):
> https://github.com/JanMisker/MailmanModerator-iOS
> 
> Maybe somebody else will pick it up and polish it a little.
> 
> With kind regards,
> christian
> 
> [1]: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mailman-moderator/id349100180?ls=1&mt=8
> 
> [2]: It often crashes after moderation, no loading indicator, setup is
> finicky (If you're not putting the base url exactly to
> admindb/mailinglistname, it fails), the icon could be nicer.
> 
> -- 
> http://hymnos.existenz.ch
> (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au

From cstuder at existenz.ch  Mon Sep 15 09:28:14 2014
From: cstuder at existenz.ch (christian studer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:28:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, I forgot to say that the sender is usually not a list member in my case
(That's why the moderation kicks in.)

So the sender get's the 'you-will-be-moderated' mail, but is never notified
when his mail has been approved, leaving him hanging in the air with
existential dread.

The documentation says about the 'receive acknowledgement' option: "Note:
If you are not subscribed to the list, this option cannot be used. You must
either check the archives yourself (if the list has public archives), ask
someone who is subscribed to the list, or subscribe to use this option."

Any other option I might have overlooked?

Thank you,
  christian


2014-09-14 19:53 GMT+02:00 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> On 09/14/2014 04:26 AM, christian studer wrote:
> >
> > I'm unable to figure out if there's a configuration option to inform a
> > sender that a moderated message of him has been approved. Is this
> > functionality available in Mailman 2.1?
>
>
> There is no explicit option per se, but the sender should receive a copy
> of the post or an acknowledgment if the sender's "Receive
> acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?" option is Yes, at
> least if the sender is a list member.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cstuder%40existenz.ch
>



-- 
http://hymnos.existenz.ch
(In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Sep 15 10:46:58 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:46:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
 <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wq952rul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

christian studer writes:

 > Ah, I forgot to say that the sender is usually not a list member in
 > my case (That's why the moderation kicks in.)

What is the reason for non-membership?  The reason I ask is that the
obvious solution with existing facilities is for such senders to
subscribe, set no-mail to true and receive-acknowledgment to true.

 > The documentation says about the 'receive acknowledgement' option:
 > "Note: If you are not subscribed to the list, this option cannot be
 > used. You must either check the archives yourself (if the list has
 > public archives), ask someone who is subscribed to the list, or
 > subscribe to use this option."
 > 
 > Any other option I might have overlooked?

Not that I know of.  I find it hard to imagine a use case where it
makes sense to notify people who should not be members of the list
about delivery of their posts.  On the other hand, I get enough junk
mail as it is -- I think the majority of users would find an automatic
response annoying.

It could be implemented easily enough, I suppose.

Steve


From cstuder at existenz.ch  Mon Sep 15 17:35:27 2014
From: cstuder at existenz.ch (christian studer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:35:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <87wq952rul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
 <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wq952rul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAB4i7fdO2apBVppE6E-V+XneGcndJhPrVyiv63XrwRBJh1RJRg@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I'm structuring my lists wrong.

I've got 8 groups of people (with 3 subgroups, approx. 200 people in total)
who are discussing amongst themselves, unmoderated. I've got a couple of
approved senders who can send official stuff to all lists (but don't
subscribe to them).

And then there is inofficial stuff (Party invites mostly) and accidental
mails from members of one list to one or multiple other lists. Those mails
are hitting moderation, I remove the accidental stuff and let the party
invites through. But the senders are always unsure if their mails are
reaching their audience.

Any better idea on how to deal with this? Removing moderation seems to be a
bad idea, because I've got enough inexperienced users to keep spaming all
the lists with thoughtless 'reply-to-all's.

Thank you for your time,
  christian


2014-09-15 10:46 GMT+02:00 Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>:

> christian studer writes:
>
>  > Ah, I forgot to say that the sender is usually not a list member in
>  > my case (That's why the moderation kicks in.)
>
> What is the reason for non-membership?  The reason I ask is that the
> obvious solution with existing facilities is for such senders to
> subscribe, set no-mail to true and receive-acknowledgment to true.
>
>  > The documentation says about the 'receive acknowledgement' option:
>  > "Note: If you are not subscribed to the list, this option cannot be
>  > used. You must either check the archives yourself (if the list has
>  > public archives), ask someone who is subscribed to the list, or
>  > subscribe to use this option."
>  >
>  > Any other option I might have overlooked?
>
> Not that I know of.  I find it hard to imagine a use case where it
> makes sense to notify people who should not be members of the list
> about delivery of their posts.  On the other hand, I get enough junk
> mail as it is -- I think the majority of users would find an automatic
> response annoying.
>
> It could be implemented easily enough, I suppose.
>
> Steve
>
>


-- 
http://hymnos.existenz.ch
(In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Sep 15 20:50:25 2014
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:50:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7fdO2apBVppE6E-V+XneGcndJhPrVyiv63XrwRBJh1RJRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
 <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wq952rul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAB4i7fdO2apBVppE6E-V+XneGcndJhPrVyiv63XrwRBJh1RJRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541734F1.7040104@tuunq.com>

On 9/15/2014 8:35 AM, christian studer wrote:

> And then there is inofficial stuff (Party invites mostly) and accidental
> mails from members of one list to one or multiple other lists. Those mails
> are hitting moderation, I remove the accidental stuff and let the party
> invites through. But the senders are always unsure if their mails are
> reaching their audience.

It sounds like you're looking for a technical solution to a non-technical 
problem. Unless the party-invite senders are added all the target lists, I 
think they'll have to take your word that the messages have been let through.

z!



From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Tue Sep 16 00:18:39 2014
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:18:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from the
	listserv
Message-ID: <CAJz=WW6zyP7eu5nUto3+nNniCHijt84idRD78rM5sWOrKssxmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We have an odd behavior with non-members keep getting messages from one of
our listserv. We unsubscribe these members manually and receive the message
of "Cannot unsubscribe non-member." We have the 1-click unsubscribe link
embedded to messages as well. When we click on the link, we receive error
message "Authentication failed".

We tried the recipients' names as well and nothing comes back. These
recipients reply to the original message so they are registered as members.

Anybody ran into this issue before? Is there a way for us to force Mailman
to NOT send out messages to these specific addresses?

Thank you,

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Tue Sep 16 01:26:30 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:26:30 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from
	the	listserv
In-Reply-To: <CAJz=WW6zyP7eu5nUto3+nNniCHijt84idRD78rM5sWOrKssxmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJz=WW6zyP7eu5nUto3+nNniCHijt84idRD78rM5sWOrKssxmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894F6@nuwvicms2>

Could it be that these people are subscribed under other email addresses, which they've set to forward to their current one? You could try searching for similar looking addresses.

Peter Shute

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mailman-Users 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Hung Phan
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 September 2014 8:19 AM
> To: mailman user mailing list
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages 
> from the listserv
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We have an odd behavior with non-members keep getting 
> messages from one of our listserv. We unsubscribe these 
> members manually and receive the message of "Cannot 
> unsubscribe non-member." We have the 1-click unsubscribe link 
> embedded to messages as well. When we click on the link, we 
> receive error message "Authentication failed".
> 
> We tried the recipients' names as well and nothing comes 
> back. These recipients reply to the original message so they 
> are registered as members.
> 
> Anybody ran into this issue before? Is there a way for us to 
> force Mailman to NOT send out messages to these specific addresses?
> 
> Thank you,
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: 
> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4
0nuw.org.au
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 16 03:59:27 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:59:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from the
 listserv
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894F6@nuwvicms2>
References: <CAJz=WW6zyP7eu5nUto3+nNniCHijt84idRD78rM5sWOrKssxmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894F6@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <5417997F.7030702@msapiro.net>

On 09/15/2014 04:26 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> Could it be that these people are subscribed under other email addresses, which they've set to forward to their current one? You could try searching for similar looking addresses.


Look at the full headers of the messages they receive. If list messages
are VERPed, the envelope sender (usually reflected in a Return-Path:
header), Sender: and Error's-To: headers all contain the address sent to
(with '@' replaced by '=').

Also if the list is personalized, you can put something like

Sent to: %(user_delivered_to)s

in msg_footer to expose the address sent to (if %(user_optionsurl)s
isn't alreader there).

Also, it's not likely, but another possibility is there is another
mailman instance sending these messages. The Received: headers should
contain clues to this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 16 04:13:00 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:13:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <541734F1.7040104@tuunq.com>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
 <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wq952rul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAB4i7fdO2apBVppE6E-V+XneGcndJhPrVyiv63XrwRBJh1RJRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <541734F1.7040104@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <54179CAC.6030100@msapiro.net>

On 09/15/2014 11:50 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> 
> It sounds like you're looking for a technical solution to a
> non-technical problem. Unless the party-invite senders are added all the
> target lists, I think they'll have to take your word that the messages
> have been let through.


Or each list itself is added to all the other lists
accept_these_nonmembers via the @listname syntax, but it seems that that
isn't wanted here as some messages are not approved.

One possibility is to turn off respond_to_post_requests so the users
don't get the notice that their message was held.

Another possibility is to make an edited postheld.txt template (see the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>) which says something to the affect
that if you don't receive a rejection notice, you can assume your post
was accepted, and then reject the posts you don't want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Sep 16 07:26:17 2014
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:26:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7fdO2apBVppE6E-V+XneGcndJhPrVyiv63XrwRBJh1RJRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7fe=1uwQVtAeV8MD2GABEr+57xWUd8cc8JK5GJPTcpAcsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5415D602.2030404@msapiro.net>
 <CAB4i7feRP-VCMaTVuqNE5KYb-k2j5BsNfZ-pdXSpARkSyy=Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wq952rul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAB4i7fdO2apBVppE6E-V+XneGcndJhPrVyiv63XrwRBJh1RJRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87oaug2l1i.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

christian studer writes:


 > I've got 8 groups of people (with 3 subgroups, approx. 200 people
 > in total) who are discussing amongst themselves, unmoderated. I've
 > got a couple of approved senders who can send official stuff to all
 > lists (but don't subscribe to them).

These guys aren't worried about their posts getting through?  If they
do, subscribe them, set them with no-mail ON, and acknowledge-post ON
in the member screen.

 > And then there is inofficial stuff (Party invites mostly) and
 > accidental mails from members of one list to one or multiple other
 > lists. Those mails are hitting moderation, I remove the accidental
 > stuff and let the party invites through. But the senders are always
 > unsure if their mails are reaching their audience.

Perhaps a single list with topics would do what you want, although
people who want to post to a different topic would need trainging.


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Tue Sep 16 18:31:54 2014
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:31:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from the
	listserv
In-Reply-To: <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894F6@nuwvicms2>
References: <CAJz=WW6zyP7eu5nUto3+nNniCHijt84idRD78rM5sWOrKssxmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894F6@nuwvicms2>
Message-ID: <CAJz=WW5-q1k9agp_vO+vyRBmtgNhJK8jhTgkEgGA6pccwrVqmQ@mail.gmail.com>

We thought about that too. However, we have the 1-click unsubscribe at the
bottom of the message so members can unsubscribe themselves. The link
contains the email address and they are the one that don't exist. We also
ask the users and they confirmed they don't have other email addresses or
forwarding.

Is there an option within Mailman or exim to force not to deliver messages
to a particular email address?


On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Peter Shute <pshute at nuw.org.au> wrote:

> Could it be that these people are subscribed under other email addresses,
> which they've set to forward to their current one? You could try searching
> for similar looking addresses.
>
> Peter Shute
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mailman-Users
> > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org.au at python.org]
> > On Behalf Of Hung Phan
> > Sent: Tuesday, 16 September 2014 8:19 AM
> > To: mailman user mailing list
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages
> > from the listserv
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > We have an odd behavior with non-members keep getting
> > messages from one of our listserv. We unsubscribe these
> > members manually and receive the message of "Cannot
> > unsubscribe non-member." We have the 1-click unsubscribe link
> > embedded to messages as well. When we click on the link, we
> > receive error message "Authentication failed".
> >
> > We tried the recipients' names as well and nothing comes
> > back. These recipients reply to the original message so they
> > are registered as members.
> >
> > Anybody ran into this issue before? Is there a way for us to
> > force Mailman to NOT send out messages to these specific addresses?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
> > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4
> 0nuw.org.au
> >




-- 
Hung Phan
Technology Manager
Canby School District
503-266-0010
phanh at canby.k12.or.us

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Sep 16 22:27:52 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:27:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from the
 listserv
In-Reply-To: <CAJz=WW5-q1k9agp_vO+vyRBmtgNhJK8jhTgkEgGA6pccwrVqmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJz=WW6zyP7eu5nUto3+nNniCHijt84idRD78rM5sWOrKssxmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001810894F6@nuwvicms2>
 <CAJz=WW5-q1k9agp_vO+vyRBmtgNhJK8jhTgkEgGA6pccwrVqmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54189D48.9040203@msapiro.net>

On 09/16/2014 09:31 AM, Hung Phan wrote:
> We thought about that too. However, we have the 1-click unsubscribe at the
> bottom of the message so members can unsubscribe themselves. The link
> contains the email address and they are the one that don't exist. We also
> ask the users and they confirmed they don't have other email addresses or
> forwarding.


So you know the address which is being sent messages from a list, but
the address is not a member of the list you are looking at. Is the
address a member of a sibling list? I.e. does the list have any
Non-digest options -> regular_include_lists and if so, is this address a
member of one of them?

If not, there is another list in another Mailman instance which is
sending these messages. Examine the Received: headers of the received
message to determine the IP address of the server that's sending them

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Wed Sep 17 00:23:27 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:23:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM stats question and a moderation issue
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>

Can MM generate some type of statistics for all the lists, e.g. number of
messages per week, month, most frequent posters, which list has most
traffic etc.?

All of our lists are setup where members can post, other (non-members) are
moderated. After updating to  2.1.18-1 and config_list -i all of the
settings the member posts to the list that they are subscribed to require
moderator approval too. Maybe a setting didn't get imported, I'm not sure.
Any ideas where/what to check? I would like members to be able to post
without approval, and non-members to go to queue for moderation.

Thank you.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 17 02:05:44 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:05:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM stats question and a moderation issue
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5418D058.401@msapiro.net>

On 09/16/2014 03:23 PM, James Nightly wrote:
> Can MM generate some type of statistics for all the lists, e.g. number of
> messages per week, month, most frequent posters, which list has most
> traffic etc.?


It's all in Mailman's 'post' log, but beyond what's in the contrib/mmdsr
script report (in the source tarball) you need to do your own analysis.


> All of our lists are setup where members can post, other (non-members) are
> moderated. After updating to  2.1.18-1 and config_list -i all of the
> settings the member posts to the list that they are subscribed to require
> moderator approval too. Maybe a setting didn't get imported, I'm not sure.
> Any ideas where/what to check? I would like members to be able to post
> without approval, and non-members to go to queue for moderation.


I'm not sure why you did config_list. If you were upgrading an existing
install, this was unnecessary.

What is the reason (from the admindb interface or the held message
notice or Mailman's vette log) why the post is held?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Wed Sep 17 16:57:18 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:57:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM stats question and a moderation issue
In-Reply-To: <5418D058.401@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5418D058.401@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AfS_o=UfV87TnO3mUvK9UBsKcFRvMukfj_4XbgO7GsumA@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm not sure why you did config_list. If you were upgrading an existing
> install, this was unnecessary.

I had to move to a different server. Sorry, I should have explained
that a little better.


> What is the reason (from the admindb interface or the held message
> notice or Mailman's vette log) why the post is held?

This is the weird part. Sender is on the members list. However,
"Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list".

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Wed Sep 17 17:08:04 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:08:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain name alias, two domains on one MM?
In-Reply-To: <5412560E.7070602@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQH7AemnOY7OzvCiqufODdLzjM6gSNwvva59T=_GoyBJ3GXkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5412560E.7070602@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AfV7RUZq9W5R7nHs04BxJxhr6jwP7YSPTPupxu-kov+RQ@mail.gmail.com>

It doesn't work for some reason. I can see emails routed to the new domain,
but there is an "unroutable address" error in the logs.

Our old lists.old_name.org is pointing to lists.new_name.org. MM lists
names are same, the only change is in the domain (lists.old_name.org vs
lists.new_name.org -- or mailman at lists.old_name.org vs
mailman at lists.old_name.org).

However, when I SMTP test for lists.old_domain.org I get a response from
lists.new_domain.org, like this:

SMTP test for lists.OLD_DOMAIN.org

Connecting to 69.9.9.9 *(obfuscated)

220 lists.NEW_DOMAIN.org ESMTP Exim 4.84 Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:02:03 -0700
[5678 ms]
EHLO MXTB-PWS3.mxtoolbox.com
250-lists.new_name.org Hello mxtb-pws3.mxtoolbox.com [64.20.227.133]
250-SIZE 52428800
250-8BITMIME
250-PIPELINING
250 HELP [655 ms]
MAIL FROM: <supertool at mxtoolbox.com>
250 OK [655 ms]
RCPT TO: <test at example.com>
550 relay not permitted [655 ms]

MXTB-PWS3v2 8440ms

ping lists.old_domain.org reply from 69.9.9.9 OK
ping lists.new_domain.org reply rom 69.9.9.9 OK

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 17 17:41:54 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:41:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM stats question and a moderation issue
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AfS_o=UfV87TnO3mUvK9UBsKcFRvMukfj_4XbgO7GsumA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>	<5418D058.401@msapiro.net>
 <CAAQH7AfS_o=UfV87TnO3mUvK9UBsKcFRvMukfj_4XbgO7GsumA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5419ABC2.6040309@msapiro.net>

On 09/17/2014 07:57 AM, James Nightly wrote:
>> I'm not sure why you did config_list. If you were upgrading an existing
>> install, this was unnecessary.
> 
> I had to move to a different server. Sorry, I should have explained
> that a little better.


And did you notice the part in my reply to you at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-September/077803.html>
that said "Why don't you just move the lists per
<http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9> and posts linked therefrom."


>> What is the reason (from the admindb interface or the held message
>> notice or Mailman's vette log) why the post is held?
> 
> This is the weird part. Sender is on the members list. However,
> "Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list".


Since you moved servers, I suspect there are two lists and some things
are going to/coming from the old list(s) and some are going to/coming
from the new list(s).

And how did you add the members to the new list(s)? config_list doesn't
do anything with members or their passwords or options whereas moving
the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files moves all that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 17 17:48:01 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:48:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain name alias, two domains on one MM?
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AfV7RUZq9W5R7nHs04BxJxhr6jwP7YSPTPupxu-kov+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AemnOY7OzvCiqufODdLzjM6gSNwvva59T=_GoyBJ3GXkA@mail.gmail.com>	<5412560E.7070602@msapiro.net>
 <CAAQH7AfV7RUZq9W5R7nHs04BxJxhr6jwP7YSPTPupxu-kov+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5419AD31.2000504@msapiro.net>

On 09/17/2014 08:08 AM, James Nightly wrote:
> It doesn't work for some reason. I can see emails routed to the new
> domain, but there is an "unroutable address" error in the logs.


As I said in my prior reply at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-September/077806.html>,
"You need to arrange ... for the MTA on list.new_domain.org to accept
and deliver the mail appropriately."

This means in particular, adding the old server's domain to the
mm_domains list in the Exim config on the new server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 16:19:10 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:19:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM stats question and a moderation issue
In-Reply-To: <5419ABC2.6040309@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5418D058.401@msapiro.net>
 <CAAQH7AfS_o=UfV87TnO3mUvK9UBsKcFRvMukfj_4XbgO7GsumA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5419ABC2.6040309@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAQH7AfJyX6QW_Z_ATJX+Ex5ncV6pmgD+6nexsQLKJzghMWzEQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Since you moved servers, I suspect there are two lists and some things
> are going to/coming from the old list(s) and some are going to/coming
> from the new list(s).
> And how did you add the members to the new list(s)? config_list doesn't
> do anything with members or their passwords or options whereas moving
> the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files moves all that.

I created new lists on the new server, copy/pasted member emails and
list settings (using config_list). There is only one set of lists, the
other server is offline. I get (many) daily moderation requests for
"Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list". On the old
server members of the list were able to email the list, non-member
messages were sent to moderation.

From exim4debian at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 16:21:39 2014
From: exim4debian at gmail.com (James Nightly)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:21:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regex for spam
Message-ID: <CAAQH7Aea37_9g7cQpK5LaRvYndDkKiUAbmW+SxeXsneSb6X8TQ@mail.gmail.com>

There used to be a nice set of regex for some common spam on the old
server that we had, but that crashed and I wasn't able to recover the
settings/regex. Would somebody be willing to share their regex?

If not, I wonder if this work if I add it to header_filter_rules:

ambien (?i)[a@/]+\\?.?m+.?[b8]+.?[i:1!\|]+.?[e3?]+.?n+\b
anal (?i)\banal\b
bulgary (?i)\b[b8].?[uv].?[li17\|].?[gq].?[a@/][\\]?r.?[yi1!:\|]?
cheapest pills (?i)cheapest\spills
cialis (?i)\bc.?[i1!:\|].?[a@/][\\]?.?[li17\|].?[i1!:\|].?[s235$]
credit (?i)\bc.?r.?[e3?].?d.?[i1!:\|].?[t\+]
discount (?i)\bd.?[i1!:\|].?[s235$].?c.?[oQ0].?[uv].?n.?[t\+]?
ejaculation (?i)ejaculation
enlargement (?i)enlargement
levitra \b[LlIi17\|].?[Ee3].?[Vv\\][/]?.?[Ii1!:\|].?[Tt\+].?[Rr].?[Aa@/]?[\\]?
(v nicht optional!)
money (?i)\bm.?[oQ0].?n.?[e3?].?y
mortgage \b[Mm].?[OoQ0].?[Rr].?[Tt\+].?[Ggq].?[Aa@/][\\]?.?[Ggq].?[Ee3?]?
natural weight loss (?i)(natural\s)?weight(\s)?loss
omega \b[OoQ0].?[Mm].?[Ee3?].?[Ggq].?[Aa@/][\\]?
online pharmacy (?i)online\spharmacy
penis (?i)\bp+.?[e3?]+.?n+.?[i1!:\|]+.?[s5$]+\b
pharmaceuticals (?i)pharmaceuticals
porno (?i)\bp.?[oQ0].?r.?n.?[oQ0]?
premature (?i)premature
prescription (?i)prescription
refinance \b[Rr].?[Ee3?].?[Ff].?[Ii1!:\|].?[Nn].?[Aa@/][\\]?.?[Nn].?[CcZz].?[Ee3?]?
rolex \b[Rr].?[OoQ0].?[LlIi17\|].?[Ee3?].?[Xx]
sex \b[Ss25$].?[Ee3?].?[Xx].?[Yy]?\b
soma [Ss25$].?[OoQ0].?[Mm].?[Aa]?\b oder \b[Ss25$].?[OoQ0].?[Mm].?[Aa/][\\]?\b
src=3D"cid: src=3D"cid:
src="cid: src="cid:
valium (?i)[v\\]+/?.?[a@/]+\\?.?[li17\|]+.?[il1!:\|]+.?[uv]+.?m+\b
xanax \b[Xx].?[Aa@/][\\]?.?[Nn].?[Aa@/][\\]?.?[Xx]?
X-Spam-Level: ******** X-Spam-Level:\s\*{8,30}
**** SPAM **** (?i)\*{1,6}spam\*{1,6}

From s_doane at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 15:26:18 2014
From: s_doane at yahoo.com (Shannon Doane)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:26:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
Message-ID: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



I recently had my email lists migrated from one server to another and am working with Mailman version 2.1.18-1. Unfortunately I can't remember the version of the old Mailman before the migration.

The issue I'm having with the migrated email lists is that when a moderated member sends an email to the list, it never makes it to the "Tend to pending moderator requests". The email just disappears into thin air as if it never existed. If I switch the same members email account to non-moderated and they send an email to the list the message goes through to everyone on the list just as it should.

For testing purposes I also set up a brand new email list on the new server and it works exactly as it should without any issues. This problem seems to be with the migrated lists only. 

Any ideas as to why this could be occurring? 

Thank you!!

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 18 18:11:20 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:11:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
In-Reply-To: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <541B0428.2070004@msapiro.net>

On 09/18/2014 06:26 AM, Shannon Doane wrote:
> 
> The issue I'm having with the migrated email lists is that when a moderated member sends an email to the list, it never makes it to the "Tend to pending moderator requests". The email just disappears into thin air as if it never existed. If I switch the same members email account to non-moderated and they send an email to the list the message goes through to everyone on the list just as it should.


Check Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_moderation_action
for the affected lists. It is probably set to Discard rather than Hold.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From s_doane at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 18:20:28 2014
From: s_doane at yahoo.com (Shannon Doane)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:20:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
In-Reply-To: <541B0428.2070004@msapiro.net>
References: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <541B0428.2070004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1411057228.81264.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



Hi Mark,

Thanks for the suggestion, but this isn't the case. This setting is set to "Hold" moderated members messages. I toggled it off and on and tested it and it still did not work. 

-S


________________________________
 From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: mailman-users at python.org 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
 

On 09/18/2014 06:26 AM, Shannon Doane wrote:



> 
> The issue I'm having with the migrated email lists is that when a moderated member sends an email to the list, it never makes it to the "Tend to pending moderator requests". The email just disappears into thin air as if it never existed. If I switch the same members email account to non-moderated and they send an email to the list the message goes through to everyone on the list just as it should.


Check Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_moderation_action
for the affected lists. It is probably set to Discard rather than Hold.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/s_doane%40yahoo.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 18 18:37:41 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:37:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
In-Reply-To: <1411057228.81264.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <541B0428.2070004@msapiro.net>
 <1411057228.81264.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <541B0A55.8060703@msapiro.net>

On 09/18/2014 09:20 AM, Shannon Doane wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, but this isn't the case. This setting is set
> to "Hold" moderated members messages. I toggled it off and on and tested
> it and it still did not work. 


Check Mailman's logs. Particularly 'error' and 'vette'. Is there
anything there from the time of these posts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 18 19:07:05 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:07:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regex for spam
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7Aea37_9g7cQpK5LaRvYndDkKiUAbmW+SxeXsneSb6X8TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7Aea37_9g7cQpK5LaRvYndDkKiUAbmW+SxeXsneSb6X8TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541B1139.8050401@msapiro.net>

On 09/18/2014 07:21 AM, James Nightly wrote:
> There used to be a nice set of regex for some common spam on the old
> server that we had, but that crashed and I wasn't able to recover the
> settings/regex. Would somebody be willing to share their regex?
> 
> If not, I wonder if this work if I add it to header_filter_rules:
> 
> ambien (?i)[a@/]+\\?.?m+.?[b8]+.?[i:1!\|]+.?[e3?]+.?n+\b


Assuming you want to look for some varient of ambien in the message
Subject: header, You want something like

^Subject:.*[a@/]+\\?.?m+.?[b8]+.?[i:1!\|]+.?[e3?]+.?n+\b

at least assuming that's the regexp you want. You don't need (?i)
because these regexps are matched case insensitively.

Of course, you could just use

[a@/]+\\?.?m+.?[b8]+.?[i:1!\|]+.?[e3?]+.?n+\b

as the regexp if you want to look for it anywhere in the messages headers.

...
> src=3D"cid: src=3D"cid:
> src="cid: src="cid:

These look like you want to match something in an HTML body part.
header_filter_rules looks only at headers. Maybe content filtering is
something you want here or maybe matching on something in a
Content-Type: header


> X-Spam-Level: ******** X-Spam-Level:\s\*{8,30}

And this one should probably be

^X-Spam-Level:\s\*{8,30}

or just

^X-Spam-Level:\s\*{8,}

if you don't want to miss >30 stars


> **** SPAM **** (?i)\*{1,6}spam\*{1,6}

maybe

\*{1,6}\s*spam\s*\*{1,6}

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 18 19:13:45 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:13:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM stats question and a moderation issue
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7AfJyX6QW_Z_ATJX+Ex5ncV6pmgD+6nexsQLKJzghMWzEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7AdAawtFcs+iSjk9LBx9xXXryq52Mu-nV91kKUCOPrYPpg@mail.gmail.com>	<5418D058.401@msapiro.net>	<CAAQH7AfS_o=UfV87TnO3mUvK9UBsKcFRvMukfj_4XbgO7GsumA@mail.gmail.com>	<5419ABC2.6040309@msapiro.net>
 <CAAQH7AfJyX6QW_Z_ATJX+Ex5ncV6pmgD+6nexsQLKJzghMWzEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541B12C9.5030107@msapiro.net>

On 09/18/2014 07:19 AM, James Nightly wrote:
> 
> I created new lists on the new server, copy/pasted member emails and
> list settings (using config_list).


It would have been much easier and more complete to just have copied the
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files


> There is only one set of lists, the
> other server is offline. I get (many) daily moderation requests for
> "Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list". On the old
> server members of the list were able to email the list, non-member
> messages were sent to moderation.


Are the addresses of the senders exactly the same except possibly for
case as those of the list members?

What does

bin/list_members --invalid LISTNAME

report?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Sep 18 19:27:10 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regex for spam
In-Reply-To: <CAAQH7Aea37_9g7cQpK5LaRvYndDkKiUAbmW+SxeXsneSb6X8TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQH7Aea37_9g7cQpK5LaRvYndDkKiUAbmW+SxeXsneSb6X8TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541B15EE.8070404@msapiro.net>

James Nightly wrote:
> There used to be a nice set of regex for some common spam on the old
> server that we had, but that crashed and I wasn't able to recover the
> settings/regex. Would somebody be willing to share their regex?


It is generally much more effective to use tools like Spamassassin at
the MTA level to stop spam from getting to Mailman in the first place.

It is also possible to invoke Spamassassin in the handler pipeline
within Mailman. See <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266588>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Thu Sep 18 20:24:49 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:24:49 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
In-Reply-To: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1411046778.66904.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7FC57075-D070-4DB1-AC89-57F07D27F95A@nuw.org.au>

Is it possible that somehow you're using the moderator page for the wrong list, ie they're still awaiting moderation?

Peter Shute

Sent from my iPad

> On 19 Sep 2014, at 2:07 am, "Shannon Doane" <s_doane at yahoo.com.dmarc.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently had my email lists migrated from one server to another and am working with Mailman version 2.1.18-1. Unfortunately I can't remember the version of the old Mailman before the migration.
> 
> The issue I'm having with the migrated email lists is that when a moderated member sends an email to the list, it never makes it to the "Tend to pending moderator requests". The email just disappears into thin air as if it never existed. If I switch the same members email account to non-moderated and they send an email to the list the message goes through to everyone on the list just as it should.
> 
> For testing purposes I also set up a brand new email list on the new server and it works exactly as it should without any issues. This problem seems to be with the migrated lists only. 
> 
> Any ideas as to why this could be occurring? 
> 
> Thank you!!
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au

From cstuder at existenz.ch  Fri Sep 19 09:51:40 2014
From: cstuder at existenz.ch (christian studer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:51:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4i7fcmpQfFDDpdn4XxhsKCQ1ZL5LW4o8ygFmmpfwKJOmttkg@mail.gmail.com>

FYI: The app now breaks completely on iOS 8. :-(

Bye,
  christian

2014-09-14 13:22 GMT+02:00 christian studer <cstuder at existenz.ch>:

> Hello,
>
> I'm maintaining and moderating a couple of Mailman lists and when I was
> looking for an easy moderation tool, I've stumpled upon 'Mailman Moderator'
> for iOS [1]. Unfortunately the app isn't quite stable [2] and the original
> programmer isn't working on it anymore.
>
> After exchanging a couple of mails, he agreed to open source it here (MIT
> licensed):
>   https://github.com/JanMisker/MailmanModerator-iOS
>
> Maybe somebody else will pick it up and polish it a little.
>
> With kind regards,
>   christian
>
> [1]:
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mailman-moderator/id349100180?ls=1&mt=8
>
> [2]: It often crashes after moderation, no loading indicator, setup is
> finicky (If you're not putting the base url exactly to
> admindb/mailinglistname, it fails), the icon could be nicer.
>
> --
> http://hymnos.existenz.ch
> (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)
>



-- 
http://hymnos.existenz.ch
(In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Fri Sep 19 10:49:02 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:49:02 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7fcmpQfFDDpdn4XxhsKCQ1ZL5LW4o8ygFmmpfwKJOmttkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB4i7fcmpQfFDDpdn4XxhsKCQ1ZL5LW4o8ygFmmpfwKJOmttkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0890B011-7D59-460F-8BAF-5F233EE90754@nuw.org.au>

That's progress for you.

Sent from my iPad

> On 19 Sep 2014, at 5:52 pm, "christian studer" <cstuder at existenz.ch> wrote:
> 
> FYI: The app now breaks completely on iOS 8. :-(
> 
> Bye,
>  christian
> 
> 2014-09-14 13:22 GMT+02:00 christian studer <cstuder at existenz.ch>:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I'm maintaining and moderating a couple of Mailman lists and when I was
>> looking for an easy moderation tool, I've stumpled upon 'Mailman Moderator'
>> for iOS [1]. Unfortunately the app isn't quite stable [2] and the original
>> programmer isn't working on it anymore.
>> 
>> After exchanging a couple of mails, he agreed to open source it here (MIT
>> licensed):
>>  https://github.com/JanMisker/MailmanModerator-iOS
>> 
>> Maybe somebody else will pick it up and polish it a little.
>> 
>> With kind regards,
>>  christian
>> 
>> [1]:
>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mailman-moderator/id349100180?ls=1&mt=8
>> 
>> [2]: It often crashes after moderation, no loading indicator, setup is
>> finicky (If you're not putting the base url exactly to
>> admindb/mailinglistname, it fails), the icon could be nicer.
>> 
>> --
>> http://hymnos.existenz.ch
>> (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://hymnos.existenz.ch
> (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.)
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au

From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Sep 18 18:50:34 2014
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 02:50:34 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo "Special Announcements"?
Message-ID: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>

Hi,

I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo 
Groups offers four delivery modes:

- individual emails
- daily digests
- no mail
- special announcements only

and I have list members set to all four of them. The first three I can 
easily deal with, but I'm not sure how to handle those set to the last.

As far as I can tell, the only difference between a Special Announcement 
and a regular post in Yahoo Groups is that a moderator can tick a 
checkbox when writing a Special Announcement on Yahoo's web UI.

I've scanned the FAQs and can't see anything obvious about this, nor can 
I see anything in the mailman web UI. I could just decide not to support 
this special announcements feature, but if I wanted to support it, what 
would be a good approach? The only thing I can think of would be to 
create a second list, mylist-announce, and subscribe everyone to that as 
well as mylist. But that makes user management tricky, requires new 
members to subscribe to both, unsubscribe from both, etc.

Have I missed something obvious? If not, is there another, simpler, 
work-around?


Thank you,



-- 
Steve

From barry at list.org  Fri Sep 19 16:49:19 2014
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:49:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo "Special
 Announcements"?
In-Reply-To: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
References: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
Message-ID: <20140919104919.4944ca38@limelight.wooz.org>

On Sep 19, 2014, at 02:50 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo 
>Groups offers four delivery modes:
>
>- individual emails
>- daily digests
>- no mail
>- special announcements only

The closest thing to the latter is the Urgent header, but IIRC, that only
bypasses digesting rules.  I.e. digest members will get an immediate
delivery.

It would be an interesting feature for MM3.

Cheers,
-Barry

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Sep 19 17:25:50 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:25:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo "Special
	Announcements"?
In-Reply-To: <20140919104919.4944ca38@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
 <20140919104919.4944ca38@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <541C4AFE.10302@msapiro.net>

On 09/19/2014 07:49 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Sep 19, 2014, at 02:50 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo 
>> Groups offers four delivery modes:
>>
>> - individual emails
>> - daily digests
>> - no mail
>> - special announcements only
> 
> The closest thing to the latter is the Urgent header, but IIRC, that only
> bypasses digesting rules.  I.e. digest members will get an immediate
> delivery.


It also attempts delivery to members with delivery disabled. I.e. a post
containing an

Urgent: password

header where password is the list's admin or moderator password (should
that include the relatively new poster password?) will be sent now to
all list members regardless of status.

Note that this must be a real header. A first body line pseudo header
doesn't work here.

So, it seems that we can't completely emulate Yahoo in that we don't
have the ability to disable all delivery as opposed to disable delivery
for all but Urgent messages, but maybe we're close enough.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Sep 19 17:44:16 2014
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:44:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo "Special
 Announcements"?
In-Reply-To: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
References: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
Message-ID: <20140919154416.GY6878@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 02:50:34AM +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo 
> Groups offers four delivery modes:
> 
> - individual emails
> - daily digests
> - no mail
> - special announcements only
> 
> and I have list members set to all four of them. The first three I can 
> easily deal with, but I'm not sure how to handle those set to the last.

>From the Mailman side of thing, I imagine the 'easy' way of emulating
this is to have an announce only list, for all members (with bounce
processing etc disabled).

I think most Y! groups subscribers would use "special annoucements
only" for lists too noisy for them, but still want to hear about
important things.

> create a second list, mylist-announce, and subscribe everyone to that as 
> well as mylist. But that makes user management tricky, requires new 
> members to subscribe to both, unsubscribe from both, etc.

The sync_members script (and cron) might be useful here?


-- 
"... they're not anarchists, just thugs who can't be bothered to put in the
 weekly commitment needed to be football hooligans."
    -- Nick Barlow (describing violent May Day protestors)

From pshute at nuw.org.au  Fri Sep 19 22:20:52 2014
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:20:52 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo "Special
 Announcements"?
In-Reply-To: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
References: <20140918165033.GQ9293@ando.pearwood.info>
Message-ID: <B81E2E6C-C26A-4BEF-8147-6577F5992D7D@nuw.org.au>

> On 20 Sep 2014, at 12:38 am, "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo 
> Groups offers four delivery modes:
> 
> - individual emails
> - daily digests
> - no mail
> - special announcements only
> 
> and I have list members set to all four of them. The first three I can 
> easily deal with, but I'm not sure how to handle those set to the last.
> 
> As far as I can tell, the only difference between a Special Announcement 
> and a regular post in Yahoo Groups is that a moderator can tick a 
> checkbox when writing a Special Announcement on Yahoo's web UI.

Do you ever send special announcements? I'd be tempted to just set those people to no mail.

Peter Shute

From ron at vnetworx.net  Sat Sep 20 21:31:40 2014
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:31:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
In-Reply-To: <CAB4i7fcmpQfFDDpdn4XxhsKCQ1ZL5LW4o8ygFmmpfwKJOmttkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB4i7ff6-O94JBVgkxwq7zN4x4yXcjYDGNyKkUosO0omdx+fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB4i7fcmpQfFDDpdn4XxhsKCQ1ZL5LW4o8ygFmmpfwKJOmttkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541DD61C.4060309@vnetworx.net>

On 9/19/2014 3:51 AM, christian studer wrote:
> FYI: The app now breaks completely on iOS 8. :-(

Same on Android.  All I get is a black screen.


From michael.capelle at charter.net  Wed Sep 24 15:47:03 2014
From: michael.capelle at charter.net (Michael Capelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:47:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.
Message-ID: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>

hello, when i sent a subscription request in plane text, i got nothing back, 
however, when i sent it in HTML, i got a responce, is this a mailman issue? 


From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Sep 24 16:34:05 2014
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:34:05 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs, mail flow into/out of mailman
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2017D9D5F69@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>


Have had to do some tracking of mailman activity for management.  I'm familiar with the mailman logs, web server access_log, and linux sendmail logs.
Is there any place where the flow of mail into and out of mailman, along with when log entries are made, documented anywhere?  Especially a moderated message. Qrunner activity, that kind of thing.  I've poked around the FAQ and other things online, but didn't find much.  I did find some mailman 3 info though (I'm 2.1.7)

Bruce Harrison
UT Martin


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 24 17:18:02 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:18:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.
In-Reply-To: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>
References: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>
Message-ID: <5422E0AA.8070100@msapiro.net>

On 09/24/2014 06:47 AM, Michael Capelle wrote:
> hello, when i sent a subscription request in plane text, i got nothing
> back, however, when i sent it in HTML, i got a responce, is this a
> mailman issue?


To what address are you sending these?

What is the Subject: and the body contents of the messages you are sending?

What is the response you get to your HTML message?

Is there an entry like "No command, message discarded, msgid: ..." in
Mailman's 'vette' log corresponding to your plain text message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From michael.capelle at charter.net  Wed Sep 24 17:28:21 2014
From: michael.capelle at charter.net (Michael Capelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:28:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.
References: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>
 <5422E0AA.8070100@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <455EB0794403449CA55AE017A685663F@COMPUTER1>

office2007-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
if i send no subject in plane text, i get nothing back in my inbox, but if i 
switch it to html, then i get a responce, saying i was subscribed.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.


> On 09/24/2014 06:47 AM, Michael Capelle wrote:
>> hello, when i sent a subscription request in plane text, i got nothing
>> back, however, when i sent it in HTML, i got a responce, is this a
>> mailman issue?
>
>
> To what address are you sending these?
>
> What is the Subject: and the body contents of the messages you are 
> sending?
>
> What is the response you get to your HTML message?
>
> Is there an entry like "No command, message discarded, msgid: ..." in
> Mailman's 'vette' log corresponding to your plain text message?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael.capelle%40charter.net 


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 24 17:50:05 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:50:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs, mail flow into/out of mailman
In-Reply-To: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2017D9D5F69@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2017D9D5F69@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
Message-ID: <5422E82D.6020508@msapiro.net>

On 09/24/2014 07:34 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> 
> Have had to do some tracking of mailman activity for management.  I'm familiar with the mailman logs, web server access_log, and linux sendmail logs.
> Is there any place where the flow of mail into and out of mailman, along with when log entries are made, documented anywhere?


There is some documentation at the front of
Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py, but it's not exactly what you're
looking for.

Here's a brief summary (perhaps a new FAQ is called for).

1) A message arrives addressed to the list posting address. The incoming
MTA puts it in qfiles/in/ or whatever the incoming queue is named. This
is normally logged in the MTA logs.

2) IncomingRunner (Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py) picks up the queue
entry and processes the message through a series of handlers
(Mailman/Handlers/*.py) as defined by GLOBAL_PIPELINE or the list's
pipeline attribute if any.

3) Any handler can hold, reject or discard the message. These events are
normally logged in Mailman's vette log. If the message is rejected or
discarded, we're done. If it is held, see below. Otherwise the message
is passed to the next handler in the pipeline.

4) Eventually the message passes through the ToDigest handler which adds
it to the list's digest.mbox and my trigger a digest on size; the
ToArchive handler which queues it in the archive queue for ArchRunner;
the ToUsenet handler which may queue it in the news queue for
NewsRunner; the Acknowledge handler which sends an acknowledgement to
the poster if the poster's option is set, and the ToOutgoing handler
which queues it in the out queue for OutgoingRunner which delivers the
post and writes the 'post' and 'smtp' and maybe ''smtp-failure' log entries.

5) Messages which are held can be handled by the admindb web UI or via
email. In any case, disposition is generally logged in the 'vette' log
and if the message is approved, it is processed through the remainder of
the pipeline following the handler that held it.

6) Any handler could write to the 'error' log.

Let me know if you want more detail on any of this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 24 18:34:32 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:34:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.
In-Reply-To: <455EB0794403449CA55AE017A685663F@COMPUTER1>
References: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>
 <5422E0AA.8070100@msapiro.net> <455EB0794403449CA55AE017A685663F@COMPUTER1>
Message-ID: <5422F298.8020105@msapiro.net>

On 09/24/2014 08:28 AM, Michael Capelle wrote:
> office2007-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
> if i send no subject in plane text, i get nothing back in my inbox, but
> if i switch it to html, then i get a responce, saying i was subscribed.


I can't explain why this would be the case. When you mail to a list's
-join address, Mailman only looks at the address in the From: header of
the message. The Subject:, body content and MIME structure (plain text
vs HTML) of the message should be irrelevant. The only thing that
matters is the address. If the address was not already a list member,
you should get a response either saying you've been subscribed or more
often, asking you to confirm your request. If the address was already a
list member, you should get a response saying you're already subscribed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From michael.capelle at charter.net  Wed Sep 24 18:40:53 2014
From: michael.capelle at charter.net (Michael Capelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:40:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.
References: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>
 <5422E0AA.8070100@msapiro.net> <455EB0794403449CA55AE017A685663F@COMPUTER1>
 <5422F298.8020105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <B58ABED4D07A4EB59AD0E8CFC3A3A706@COMPUTER1>

that is the perplexing thing, when i sent it as plane text, i got nothing 
back, but when i sent it as HTML, then i got a responce.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "Michael Capelle" <michael.capelle at charter.net>; 
<mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.


> On 09/24/2014 08:28 AM, Michael Capelle wrote:
>> office2007-join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>> if i send no subject in plane text, i get nothing back in my inbox, but
>> if i switch it to html, then i get a responce, saying i was subscribed.
>
>
> I can't explain why this would be the case. When you mail to a list's
> -join address, Mailman only looks at the address in the From: header of
> the message. The Subject:, body content and MIME structure (plain text
> vs HTML) of the message should be irrelevant. The only thing that
> matters is the address. If the address was not already a list member,
> you should get a response either saying you've been subscribed or more
> often, asking you to confirm your request. If the address was already a
> list member, you should get a response saying you're already subscribed.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan 


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Sep 24 19:12:40 2014
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:12:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] perplexing mailman issue.
In-Reply-To: <B58ABED4D07A4EB59AD0E8CFC3A3A706@COMPUTER1>
References: <D6D2F7315C5B4526AA76EA1D83FD24A6@COMPUTER1>
 <5422E0AA.8070100@msapiro.net> <455EB0794403449CA55AE017A685663F@COMPUTER1>
 <5422F298.8020105@msapiro.net> <B58ABED4D07A4EB59AD0E8CFC3A3A706@COMPUTER1>
Message-ID: <5422FB88.5030300@msapiro.net>

On 09/24/2014 09:40 AM, Michael Capelle wrote:
> that is the perplexing thing, when i sent it as plane text, i got
> nothing back, but when i sent it as HTML, then i got a responce.


Perhaps there is greylisting in effect that caused some response to be
delayed.

Perhaps there is some other reason one of the responses didn't reach
your inbox.

In any case, Mailman will not treat messages to a lists -join address
differently based of whether they are plain text or HTML.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From harrison at utm.edu  Wed Sep 24 17:57:48 2014
From: harrison at utm.edu (Bruce Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:57:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs, mail flow into/out of mailman
In-Reply-To: <5422E82D.6020508@msapiro.net>
References: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2017D9D5F69@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>
 <5422E82D.6020508@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <E6C16961ECB6B044A889CDAC6BA7B4B2017D9D7634@EXCH2010MBOX2.utm.edu>

Thanks!  Let me work thru this and I'll email with any specific questions.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+harrison=utm.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:50 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs, mail flow into/out of mailman

On 09/24/2014 07:34 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:
> 
> Have had to do some tracking of mailman activity for management.  I'm familiar with the mailman logs, web server access_log, and linux sendmail logs.
> Is there any place where the flow of mail into and out of mailman, along with when log entries are made, documented anywhere?


There is some documentation at the front of Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py, but it's not exactly what you're looking for.

Here's a brief summary (perhaps a new FAQ is called for).

1) A message arrives addressed to the list posting address. The incoming MTA puts it in qfiles/in/ or whatever the incoming queue is named. This is normally logged in the MTA logs.

2) IncomingRunner (Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py) picks up the queue entry and processes the message through a series of handlers
(Mailman/Handlers/*.py) as defined by GLOBAL_PIPELINE or the list's pipeline attribute if any.

3) Any handler can hold, reject or discard the message. These events are normally logged in Mailman's vette log. If the message is rejected or discarded, we're done. If it is held, see below. Otherwise the message is passed to the next handler in the pipeline.

4) Eventually the message passes through the ToDigest handler which adds it to the list's digest.mbox and my trigger a digest on size; the ToArchive handler which queues it in the archive queue for ArchRunner; the ToUsenet handler which may queue it in the news queue for NewsRunner; the Acknowledge handler which sends an acknowledgement to the poster if the poster's option is set, and the ToOutgoing handler which queues it in the out queue for OutgoingRunner which delivers the post and writes the 'post' and 'smtp' and maybe ''smtp-failure' log entries.

5) Messages which are held can be handled by the admindb web UI or via email. In any case, disposition is generally logged in the 'vette' log and if the message is approved, it is processed through the remainder of the pipeline following the handler that held it.

6) Any handler could write to the 'error' log.

Let me know if you want more detail on any of this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/harrison%40utm.edu

From srinivasb at gmail.com  Tue Sep 30 19:19:30 2014
From: srinivasb at gmail.com (Srinivas B.)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman List Unsubscribe notification
Message-ID: <CA+1jXL2qCb0+d1UfJUTmYwz-5Jz03ZhJiJPB58mC_BdUe7Tbeg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

On one of our lists, I have noticed a bunch of unsubscribe-notifications.
Is there a way to turn-off this automated unsubscribe of members?

-Srinivas