[Mailman-Users] All confirmation emails going to SPAM on gmail

Mark Sapiro mark at msapiro.net
Fri Sep 4 01:01:57 CEST 2015

On 09/03/2015 07:21 AM, Nitin Sharma wrote:
> So I set up mailman ( mailman-2.1.15-21.20 ) and have my
> SPF/DKIM/DMARC set for my domain.

I too have SPF and DKIM sign my outgoing mail, but I don't publish a
DMARC policy.

> All of the confirmation emails sent are classified under Gmail as
> "Spam". The list postings however are correctly sent to Forum Tab.

I just requested subscription of a gmail address to a list and the
confirmation request arrived in my gmail inbox.

> I see that "Precedence:bulk" is set on the confirmation emails,
> whereas "Precedence:list" is set on the posting. I think that's okay.
> Confirmation emails are important and I want to increase the
> likelihood of it not being classified as spam.


> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Here are the headers of the message from my gmail inbox. Some lines may
be wrapped, but otherwise this is an exact copy.

Delivered-To: marksapiro at gmail.com
Received: by with SMTP id c81csp55822ivc;
        Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by with SMTP id j187mr192882ioe.80.1441314247111;
        Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <wed_ride-bounces+marksapiro=gmail.com at grizz.org>
Received: from sbh16.songbird.com (sbh16.songbird.com. [])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id w5si175300igl.33.2015.
        for <marksapiro at gmail.com>;
        Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of
wed_ride-bounces+marksapiro=gmail.com at grizz.org designates
as permitted sender) client-ip=;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of
wed_ride-bounces+marksapiro=gmail.com at grizz.org designates
as permitted sender)
smtp.mailfrom=wed_ride-bounces+marksapiro=gmail.com at grizz.org;
       dkim=pass header.i=@grizz.org
Received: from sbh16.songbird.com (localhost.localdomain [])
	by sbh16.songbird.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6C111E0075
	for <marksapiro at gmail.com>; Thu,  3 Sep 2015 14:03:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=grizz.org; s=default;
	t=1441314203; bh=yEUb4ckS6Fc1HbEAgDUhqOHNgu/RDCrA6+1VBSmCVRA=;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: wed_ride-confirm+1e5aa844ab20f780c82596c0f41b178ff5d9eb25 at grizz.org
To: marksapiro at gmail.com
Subject: Your confirmation is required to join the Wed_ride mailing list
wed_ride-confirm+1e5aa844ab20f780c82596c0f41b178ff5d9eb25 at grizz.org
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1441314194.11087.wed_ride at grizz.org>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:03:14 -0700
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: wed_ride at grizz.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20
List-Id: GPC Wednesday Ride List <wed_ride.grizz.org>
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Errors-To: wed_ride-bounces+marksapiro=gmail.com at grizz.org

> I opened a discussion in here too , which contain all the headers -
> https://productforums.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!msg/gmail/mxkNC3b_KK0/8xEoHtksLRoJ

The only significant difference I see in headers is your

Received: from ip-10-73-187-221.ec2.internal (mail.nypny.com.
        by mx.google.com

which I think says your MTA identifies itself in EHLO as
ip-10-73-187-221.ec2.internal and not as mail.nypny.com. This could make
a difference.

> According to the Bulk sender's guidelines :
> I have mostly all done correct except the below
> 1. Unsubscribe option - Don't have it since confirmation email means
> the user hasn't subscribed yet.
> 2. Use the same address in the 'From:' header on every bulk mail you
> send. - This on mailman's confirmation email is sent as
> list+confirm+<vars>@domain , and this changes every time. Is there a
> way to make this consistent?

It is that way because you have


in mm_cfg.py for 'friendlier' confirmations. You can remove that in
which case the From: will be (in your case)

From: wg-request at nypny.com

and the Subject: will be

Subject: confirm+cf8341f8018591fef49bbfd5c5a8bf4a2f3b9066

Sending confirmations with that Subject: is probably just as bad as
having some end up in spam.

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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