From Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us  Wed Jun  1 13:44:58 2016
From: Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us (Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 17:44:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disabled warning interval settings
Message-ID: <8079508e29ca4479b65cb5abaad8c9b4@michigan.ad.state.oh.us>

Hello:

I wondered if I could get recommendations on ideal settings needed for bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval to achieve the following:

We have a one-way announcement list. A single message is posted once a week every week. We never want to unsubscribe anyone - just disable their subscription. We never want Mailman sending a subscriber the automated message that starts with "Your membership in the mailing list XYZ has been disabled due to excessive bounces..."

When the  bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings option was set at 2000 and the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval option was set at 30, Mailman sent out the automated message.

The bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval has been increased to 2000.

Obviously there is no way to simulate this to see if the desired result (no automated message) is achieved.

Thoughts on this are most appreciated.

Thanks!

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  1 21:11:14 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 18:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disabled warning interval settings
In-Reply-To: <8079508e29ca4479b65cb5abaad8c9b4@michigan.ad.state.oh.us>
References: <8079508e29ca4479b65cb5abaad8c9b4@michigan.ad.state.oh.us>
Message-ID: <60ea037a-bd8a-d586-c4fa-4b069258dae8@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/16 10:44 AM, Daryl.Weir at lis.state.oh.us wrote:
> 
> We have a one-way announcement list. A single message is posted once
> a week every week. We never want to unsubscribe anyone - just disable
> their subscription. We never want Mailman sending a subscriber the
> automated message that starts with "Your membership in the mailing
> list XYZ has been disabled due to excessive bounces..."


If you don't want to make source changes, the best you can do here is
change the body of that message by creating an edited version of the
disabled.txt template per <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030605> (will be
editable throught the web admin GUI as of 2.1.23), but the message will
be sent when delivery is disabled by bounce processing.

If you don't want a message at all, you have to edit the
endNextNotification method in Mailman/Bouncer.py to not send it.


> When the  bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings option was set at 2000 and
> the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval option was set at 30,
> Mailman sent out the automated message.
> 
> The bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval has been increased to
> 2000.
> 
> Obviously there is no way to simulate this to see if the desired
> result (no automated message) is achieved.
> 
> Thoughts on this are most appreciated.


If you want this strategy for all lists, the easiest thing is to remove
cron/disabled from Mailman's crontab.

If this is just for 1 list of many, you could edit cron/disabled to skip
that list or as you have tried, just set
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval and maybe
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to very large numbers. The caveat here
is when a user's delivery is disabled by bounce, the number of remaining
warnings is set at that time and subsequent changes to
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings don't affect that user.

I don't know where the "bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval has
been increased" message came from. I don't think standard GNU Mailman
sends such a message. That said, setting
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval to a huge number should work.

Another approach would be to write a script that looks at those members
of a list whose delivery is disabled BYBOUNCE and change the status to
disabled BYUSER, BYADMIN OR UNKNOWN as you wish and run that
periodically via cron for this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  1 21:24:14 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 18:24:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disabled warning interval settings
In-Reply-To: <60ea037a-bd8a-d586-c4fa-4b069258dae8@msapiro.net>
References: <8079508e29ca4479b65cb5abaad8c9b4@michigan.ad.state.oh.us>
 <60ea037a-bd8a-d586-c4fa-4b069258dae8@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <c5ad4981-7036-e0d8-9608-951435dfd425@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/16 6:11 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> If you don't want a message at all, you have to edit the
> endNextNotification method in Mailman/Bouncer.py to not send it.


First, that should be sendNextNotification, the missing 's' was a
copy/paste issue :(


Then, this is not hard. You don't have to edit the source. You'd create
an extend.py for the list something like

def extend(mlist):
    def no_op(member):
        return
    mlist.endNextNotification = no_op
    return

Then you save that as lists/LISTNAME/extend.py.

I don't have time to ensure that's correct right now, but I *think* it is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  2 01:45:48 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:45:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disabled warning interval settings
In-Reply-To: <c5ad4981-7036-e0d8-9608-951435dfd425@msapiro.net>
References: <8079508e29ca4479b65cb5abaad8c9b4@michigan.ad.state.oh.us>
 <60ea037a-bd8a-d586-c4fa-4b069258dae8@msapiro.net>
 <c5ad4981-7036-e0d8-9608-951435dfd425@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <65d1fb4e-3545-cdb9-e1f5-67706ddafbdd@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/16 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> Then, this is not hard. You don't have to edit the source. You'd create
> an extend.py for the list something like
> 
> def extend(mlist):
>     def no_op(member):
>         return
>     mlist.endNextNotification = no_op
>     return
> 
> Then you save that as lists/LISTNAME/extend.py.
> 
> I don't have time to ensure that's correct right now, but I *think* it is.


I've now tested, an other than the typo (mlist.endNextNotification =
no_op should be mlist.sendNextNotification = no_op) The above extend.py
is correct to prevent sending the notices for any list for which it is
installed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From kalabalik at gmx.net  Mon Jun  6 04:48:04 2016
From: kalabalik at gmx.net (Kala Balik)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:48:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces threshold never reached
Message-ID: <575538C4.2050306@gmx.net>

Dear list members,

two weeks ago we sent out a mailing through our six new mailman lists
with roughly 6.000 subscribers. We expected to get a number of bounces,
however, while the bounces log shows that about 600 subscribers did get
a bounce score of 1.0 or 2.0, not a single address reached the threshold
of 5.0 (or anything above 2.0) and, consequently, the admins did not get
notice about any disables or removals.

Here is my bouncing configuration:

bounce_processing: yes
bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
bounce_info_stale_after: 7
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: yes

>From reading the information in the web interface my understanding of
the bounces processing is that for "bad" (i.e. unreachable) addresses
the bounces score increases EVERYDAY by 1.0 (hard bounces) or .5 (soft
bounces). Since my bounces log only displays whole numbers (either 1.0
or 2.0) I assume that most of my bounces were hard bounces (scoring 1.0
each). Therefore, constantly unreachable addresses should have reached
the threshold of 5.0 after 5 days.

Yet my log reads as if the email providers of most (about 500)
subscribers with bounces were unreachable on the day of the mailing
(kind of plausible), while the others (about 100) were "down" for two
days and then online again (not very plausible). Providers may be
unreliable sometimes, but not that unreliable. And our address base may
be good, but not that good (no permanent bouncees at all - or am I
misunderstanding the concept of permanence here - and, consequently, no
automatic unsubscribes at all).

What am I missing here? And how do I "repair" bounce processing and
automatic unsubscribe?

Thanks for your help!
Cordially,
CK

From karl.david.smith at ntlworld.com  Mon Jun  6 06:10:12 2016
From: karl.david.smith at ntlworld.com (Karl Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:10:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sudden Disabled/Unsubscribed list members?
Message-ID: <001201d1bfdb$9d97cf50$d8c76df0$@ntlworld.com>

Can someone please help. 

I have used the Mailman system v2.1.22 successfully for a number of years
without major issue and operate 4 different lists. Recently, my CAMRA
Members list (the biggest one with about 700 email addresses) has stopped
sending me a bounce copy and has on two occasions rejected one of my
messages and unsubscribed a large (apparently random) number of the members,
including me one time. There is no pattern to the servers involved. I
reversed the flags individually in the system which worked for some but some
people are still not getting messages although their Config looks normal. I
have tried removing and re-adding addresses but this does not work. They are
not on the Ban list and my messages have not been blocked into their Junk
folder.  I turned on the ackn so now I get an ackn message that a message
has been sent.

Note I have been away on a 2month extended holiday Feb/mid April and these
problems started when I resumed activity (I am the Branch Secretary and main
user of this list).

Note that I am not a computer or software expert and only use basic
functionality.

Karl

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  6 23:01:21 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:01:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces threshold never reached
In-Reply-To: <575538C4.2050306@gmx.net>
References: <575538C4.2050306@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <57563901.8090707@msapiro.net>

On 06/06/2016 01:48 AM, Kala Balik wrote:
> 
> two weeks ago we sent out a mailing through our six new mailman lists
> with roughly 6.000 subscribers. We expected to get a number of bounces,
> however, while the bounces log shows that about 600 subscribers did get
> a bounce score of 1.0 or 2.0, not a single address reached the threshold
> of 5.0 (or anything above 2.0) and, consequently, the admins did not get
> notice about any disables or removals.


That's exactly what I would expect.


> Here is my bouncing configuration:
> 
> bounce_processing: yes
> bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
> bounce_info_stale_after: 7
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: yes
> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: yes
> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: yes


Starting with Mailman 2.1.19, there is also a
bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment  setting which will notify the
owner any time the score is incremented.


>>From reading the information in the web interface my understanding of
> the bounces processing is that for "bad" (i.e. unreachable) addresses
> the bounces score increases EVERYDAY by 1.0 (hard bounces) or .5 (soft
> bounces).

No.

The score is incremented by 1.0 on the first received bounce of the day.
On a day that there are no posts and hence no bounces, the score isn't
changed.

If there are no bounces for bounce_info_stale_after (in your case 7)
days, the next bounce will reset the score to 1.0.

There aren't actually any 'soft' bounces so the score never increments
by 0.5.


Since my bounces log only displays whole numbers (either 1.0
> or 2.0) I assume that most of my bounces were hard bounces (scoring 1.0
> each). Therefore, constantly unreachable addresses should have reached
> the threshold of 5.0 after 5 days.


After 5 days on which new bounces were recorded. See above.


> Yet my log reads as if the email providers of most (about 500)
> subscribers with bounces were unreachable on the day of the mailing
> (kind of plausible), while the others (about 100) were "down" for two
> days and then online again (not very plausible). Providers may be
> unreliable sometimes, but not that unreliable. And our address base may
> be good, but not that good (no permanent bouncees at all - or am I
> misunderstanding the concept of permanence here - and, consequently, no
> automatic unsubscribes at all).


Your misunderstanding is that Mailman has no way to determine if a
bouncing address will bounce the next day without sending a post and
having it bounce. No post = no bounce for that day = no score increment.


> What am I missing here? And how do I "repair" bounce processing and
> automatic unsubscribe?


It's working as intended. If yo actually want member's delivery disabled
after one or two bounces, set  bounce_score_threshold to 1 or 2.

In general your settings which are the default are appropriate for lists
which receive several posts a week or at least never more than 7 days
between posts. If your list is lower volume than that, you may want to
decrease bounce_score_threshold and increase bounce_info_stale_after.

Note that once a member's delivery is disabled by bounce_score_threshold
being reached, Mailman no longer looks for bounces for that member and
the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval settings take over.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun  6 23:27:06 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:27:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sudden Disabled/Unsubscribed list members?
In-Reply-To: <001201d1bfdb$9d97cf50$d8c76df0$@ntlworld.com>
References: <001201d1bfdb$9d97cf50$d8c76df0$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <57563F0A.4040301@msapiro.net>

On 06/06/2016 03:10 AM, Karl Smith wrote:
> 
> I have used the Mailman system v2.1.22 successfully for a number of years
> without major issue and operate 4 different lists.


I assume you mean 2.1.22 and prior versions since 2.1.22 was released
less than 2 months ago.


> Recently, my CAMRA
> Members list (the biggest one with about 700 email addresses) has stopped
> sending me a bounce copy and has on two occasions rejected one of my
> messages and unsubscribed a large (apparently random) number of the members,
> including me one time.


I am having difficulty understanding the issue. What exactly do you mean
by "rejected one of my messages"? I.e. you sent a message to the list
and then what happened. Do you mean you received a rejection notice from
Mailman? If so, what did it say. If you mean something else, what?

The unsubscriptions were probably due to bounce processing. What are
your bounce processing settings? In particular are all the owner
notifications turned on and did you receive any notifications?


> There is no pattern to the servers involved.


Do you mean the domains of the members who were unsubscribed?

This could be a DMARC issue. Particularly if only around the time this
started, a user or users started posting From: a yahoo.com or aol.com or
other address with a domain publishing a DMARC p=reject policy or if you
have regular posters in any of the yahoo.fr, yahoo.jp or other 'foreign'
yahoo domains as these recently also started publishing a DMARC p=reject
policy. Do you have Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
dmarc_moderation_action set to Munge From or Wrap Message? (Your users
will probably prefer Munge From) See the FAQ article at
<https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458>.


> I
> reversed the flags individually in the system which worked for some but some
> people are still not getting messages although their Config looks normal. I
> have tried removing and re-adding addresses but this does not work. They are
> not on the Ban list and my messages have not been blocked into their Junk
> folder.  I turned on the ackn so now I get an ackn message that a message
> has been sent.


Investigating this generally requires access to the MTA logs on your
Mailman server. If this is a hosted Mailman, talking with the hosting
provider may help. If posts are bouncing, setting Bounce processing ->
bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment = Yes may help you understand why.


> Note that I am not a computer or software expert and only use basic
> functionality.


I can understand that and I am not unsympathetic, but even if you are
non-technical, it helps a lot to describe exactly what you see. We will
try to help, but at some point, the people who administer the Mailman
installation may need to be involved


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jun  7 02:53:24 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:53:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sudden Disabled/Unsubscribed list members?
In-Reply-To: <57563F0A.4040301@msapiro.net>
References: <001201d1bfdb$9d97cf50$d8c76df0$@ntlworld.com>
 <57563F0A.4040301@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22358.28516.62042.78366@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 06/06/2016 03:10 AM, Karl Smith wrote:

 > > Recently, my CAMRA Members list (the biggest one with about 700
 > > email addresses) has stopped sending me a bounce copy and has on
 > > two occasions rejected one of my messages and unsubscribed a
 > > large (apparently random) number of the members, including me one
 > > time.

 > This could be a DMARC issue. Particularly if only around the time this
 > started, a user or users started posting From: a yahoo.com or aol.com or
 > other address with a domain publishing a DMARC p=reject policy or if you
 > have regular posters in any of the yahoo.fr, yahoo.jp or other 'foreign'
 > yahoo domains as these recently also started publishing a DMARC p=reject
 > policy.

That's what it sounds like to me, too.  And it could be *any* address,
not restricted to yahoo.* or aol.com -- there are many corporate
domains (especially banks etc) that publish p=reject, and I get the
feeling that it's spreading (slowly so far, though).  As Mark says,
you're looking for somebody who just started posting, or restarted
posting after a layoff of several months, about the time the bounces
and unsubscriptions started.  If you have access to the "host" or
"dig" utilities, you can check yourself by looking at the users'
addresses, taking only the domain (the part after the "@" mark),
prepend "_dmarc.", and checking for a TXT record (see examples
below using "host" if you're interested, if not, that's no sin :-).

@Mark BTW yahoo.co.jp and yahoo.jp are not in that set (warning: black
magic follows, except for Mark you are not expected to understand this
but I'll explain if you want -- new thread please :-):

$ host -t TXT _dmarc.yahoo.jp
Host _dmarc.yahoo.jp not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
$ host -t TXT _dmarc.yahoo.co.jp
Host _dmarc.yahoo.co.jp not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
$ host -t TXT _dmarc.yahoo.ne.jp
_dmarc.yahoo.ne.jp descriptive text "v=DMARC1\; p=quarantine\; rf=afrf\; rua=mailto:ymail_dmarc_report at yahoo.ne.jp\; ruf=mailto:ymail_dmarc_report at yahoo.ne.jp"
$ host -t TXT yahoo.co.jp
yahoo.co.jp descriptive text "v=spf1 include:spf.yahoo.co.jp ~all"

My guess is that yahoo.ne.jp is used as the "canonical" domain for
Yahoo! Japan's domain hosting service.  Japanese Yahoo! users have
mailboxes at yahoo.co.jp AFAIK.

 > > Note that I am not a computer or software expert and only use basic
 > > functionality.
 > 
 > I can understand that and I am not unsympathetic, but even if you are
 > non-technical, it helps a lot to describe exactly what you see. We will
 > try to help, but at some point, the people who administer the Mailman
 > installation may need to be involved

+1 to all Mark says here.  So far Mark and I are reduced to guessing,
we need more data.  We do not blame the victim, but we do need your
help as best you can give it to diagnose the problem.  Sort of like a
doctor working with a foreign patient -- you do your best, we do ours,
and we'll work it out together.

Steve


From kalabalik at gmx.net  Tue Jun  7 03:19:42 2016
From: kalabalik at gmx.net (Kala Balik)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:19:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces threshold never reached
In-Reply-To: <57563901.8090707@msapiro.net>
References: <575538C4.2050306@gmx.net> <57563901.8090707@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5756758E.4000502@gmx.net>



Am 07.06.2016 um 05:01 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> On 06/06/2016 01:48 AM, Kala Balik wrote:
>>
>> two weeks ago we sent out a mailing through our six new mailman lists
>> with roughly 6.000 subscribers. We expected to get a number of bounces,
>> however, while the bounces log shows that about 600 subscribers did get
>> a bounce score of 1.0 or 2.0, not a single address reached the threshold
>> of 5.0 (or anything above 2.0) and, consequently, the admins did not get
>> notice about any disables or removals.
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I would expect.
> 
> 
>> Here is my bouncing configuration:
>>
>> bounce_processing: yes
>> bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
>> bounce_info_stale_after: 7
>> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
>> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
>> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: yes
>> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: yes
>> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: yes
> 
> 
> Starting with Mailman 2.1.19, there is also a
> bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment  setting which will notify the
> owner any time the score is incremented.
> 
> 
>> >From reading the information in the web interface my understanding of
>> the bounces processing is that for "bad" (i.e. unreachable) addresses
>> the bounces score increases EVERYDAY by 1.0 (hard bounces) or .5 (soft
>> bounces).
> 
> No.
> 
> The score is incremented by 1.0 on the first received bounce of the day.
> On a day that there are no posts and hence no bounces, the score isn't
> changed.
> 
> If there are no bounces for bounce_info_stale_after (in your case 7)
> days, the next bounce will reset the score to 1.0.
> 
> There aren't actually any 'soft' bounces so the score never increments
> by 0.5.
> 
> 
> Since my bounces log only displays whole numbers (either 1.0
>> or 2.0) I assume that most of my bounces were hard bounces (scoring 1.0
>> each). Therefore, constantly unreachable addresses should have reached
>> the threshold of 5.0 after 5 days.
> 
> 
> After 5 days on which new bounces were recorded. See above.
> 
> 
>> Yet my log reads as if the email providers of most (about 500)
>> subscribers with bounces were unreachable on the day of the mailing
>> (kind of plausible), while the others (about 100) were "down" for two
>> days and then online again (not very plausible). Providers may be
>> unreliable sometimes, but not that unreliable. And our address base may
>> be good, but not that good (no permanent bouncees at all - or am I
>> misunderstanding the concept of permanence here - and, consequently, no
>> automatic unsubscribes at all).
> 
> 
> Your misunderstanding is that Mailman has no way to determine if a
> bouncing address will bounce the next day without sending a post and
> having it bounce. No post = no bounce for that day = no score increment.

It seems that my real misunderstanding is even more fundamental. I was
expecting Mailman to retry sending an email if it received a bounce for
that adress. I thought it would retry until either no new bounce was
received anymore or the bounces threshold was reached. But this really
is a misunderstanding, right? Mailman does not retry sending emails, right?

> 
> 
>> What am I missing here? And how do I "repair" bounce processing and
>> automatic unsubscribe?
> 
> 
> It's working as intended. If yo actually want member's delivery disabled
> after one or two bounces, set  bounce_score_threshold to 1 or 2.
> 
> In general your settings which are the default are appropriate for lists
> which receive several posts a week or at least never more than 7 days
> between posts. If your list is lower volume than that, you may want to
> decrease bounce_score_threshold and increase bounce_info_stale_after.
> 
> Note that once a member's delivery is disabled by bounce_score_threshold
> being reached, Mailman no longer looks for bounces for that member and
> the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval settings take over.
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 03:42:08 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 00:42:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces threshold never reached
In-Reply-To: <5756758E.4000502@gmx.net>
References: <575538C4.2050306@gmx.net> <57563901.8090707@msapiro.net>
 <5756758E.4000502@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <57567AD0.1040006@msapiro.net>

On 06/07/2016 12:19 AM, Kala Balik wrote:
> 
> It seems that my real misunderstanding is even more fundamental. I was
> expecting Mailman to retry sending an email if it received a bounce for
> that adress. I thought it would retry until either no new bounce was
> received anymore or the bounces threshold was reached. But this really
> is a misunderstanding, right? Mailman does not retry sending emails, right?


Basically 3 things can happen to a message sent by Mailman.

1) The outgoing MTA responds with a 5xx permanent failure. In this case,
Mailman records that as a bounce and that's the end of processing that
message for that recipient.

2) The outgoing MTA responds with a 4xx temporary failure. In this case,
Mailman puts the message in its retry queue and retries it periodically
(defaults every 15 minutes for 5 days). If it is ultimately sent, fine,
otherwise Mailman eventually gives up and treats it the same as a 5xx.
This will increment the bounce score by 1 after 5 days.

3) The outgoing MTA is able to deliver the message to the recipient's
mail exchange server. It is possible that the recipient MX will accept
the message but later it or some other MTA in the delivery chain may
return a non-delivery DSN to the listname-bounces envelope sender.
Mailman receives this DSN and attempts to recognize it (it's pretty good
at this), and if it is recognized as a failure, Mailman records a bounce
for the recipient. If it is recognized as a delay or other non-failure,
Mailman ignores it, and if it is unrecognized, it is forwarded to the
list owner if the setting for that is Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 03:15:56 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:15:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm new to this list and am hoping someone may be able to point me to some
resources for geting Mailman working with Apache on FreeBSD.

I did come across one site which showed how to set this up but it was 10
years old and many things may have changed.

I'm attempting to configure

Mailman 2.1.22 with Apache 2.4.20 under FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE

Any pointers would be appreciated.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 11:06:38 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:06:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>

On 06/07/2016 12:15 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> 
> I'm attempting to configure
> 
> Mailman 2.1.22 with Apache 2.4.20 under FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE
> 
> Any pointers would be appreciated.


It's pretty straightforward. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 13:21:51 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:21:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>
References: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>

I have read these instructions, and don't find them that straightforward -
at least there must be some thing implied.

It isn't very reassuring when it says this or that *may* be required. I
suppose the instructions are more general than specific to my environment.
I get a *Forbidden * error after adding this line to httpd.conf

ScriptAlias /mailman/      /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

I tried both versions of setting permissions in the Directory
directive, but it didn't seem to make

any difference - I did restart Apache after each change. I'm sure it
must be straightforward, but

I haven't mastered it yet.




On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 06/07/2016 12:15 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> >
> > I'm attempting to configure
> >
> > Mailman 2.1.22 with Apache 2.4.20 under FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE
> >
> > Any pointers would be appreciated.
>
>
> It's pretty straightforward. See
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/karotlopj%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  7 16:13:18 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 13:13:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57572ADE.4050408@msapiro.net>

On 06/07/2016 10:21 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> I get a *Forbidden * error after adding this line to httpd.conf
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/      /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/


Look in the apache error log and see what it says for this error?

You will need

<Directory ">/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    Require all granted

(and you may need Options +ExecCGI)

</Directory>

You may also need to enable mod_cgi if it isn't enabled in your config.
Some distros have

sudo a2enmod cgi

I don't know about FreeBSD.

If this doesn't help, post the Mailman relevant parts of your config and
the error log message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From odhiambo at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 17:01:20 2016
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 00:01:20 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdA2WMAbg3Qc=vs6P_vH2V=ERSuFtLvTRnmb8z1bZXZrkOhzA@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 June 2016 at 20:21, John Poltorak <karotlopj at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have read these instructions, and don't find them that straightforward -
> at least there must be some thing implied.
>
> It isn't very reassuring when it says this or that *may* be required. I
> suppose the instructions are more general than specific to my environment.
> I get a *Forbidden * error after adding this line to httpd.conf
>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/      /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
> I tried both versions of setting permissions in the Directory
> directive, but it didn't seem to make
>
> any difference - I did restart Apache after each change. I'm sure it
> must be straightforward, but
>
> I haven't mastered it yet.
>
>

Hi John,

I install Mailman by hand. So here goes, assuming you have installed python
from the ports or using pkg and you are using recommended python version:


1. Download Mailman sources and extract. I also download the indexing+htdig
patch and apply that to the source then I run:
./configure --with-cgi-gid=80 --with-mail-gid=26    # gid 80 is www and gid
26 is mailnull (I use Exim as MTA). decide what is your GIDs for both
make install

Now mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman

2. For Apache, you know how to install that, right.
    You need to include a configuration for Mailman, and you can use mine.
So at the end of my httpd.conf I have this line:

Include etc/apache24/Includes/*.cf

cd /usr/local/etc/apache24/Includes/ and create mailman.cf as follows
Please customize the ServerAdmin and anything to do with lists.FQDN to
match yours:

<VirtualHost *:80>
  ServerName lists.FQDN
  ServerAdmin karotlopj at gmail.com
  RewriteEngine On
  RewriteRule ^/(mailman|pipermail|icons|htdig)/.+$ - [S=1]
  RedirectPermanent /htdig /icons/htdig
  Alias /pipermail "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public"
  ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
  <Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/>
     Options FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
     AllowOverride None
     Order Allow,Deny
     Allow from all
     Require all granted
  </Directory>
  <Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin/>
     Options FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
     AllowOverride None
     Order Allow,Deny
     Allow from all
     Require all granted
  </Directory>
</VirtualHost>

Of course run apachectl configtest after this to ensure things are fine
with Apache.
For me, I run mailman web UI using SSL, but I am not including that here.
When the time comes, you can figure that out yourself or ask me in private:)

Now, you also need to create your mm_cfg.py
inside /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ as documented. You can request mine too
but remember I use Exim and not Postfix and a few things will differ.

Oh, you need the configurations for your MTA. For Exim, we have a
transparent config to we do not create any aliases for a lists in our MTAs
alias file.

Last but not least cd /usr/local/mailman/bin and run ./check_perms -f

Feel free to discuss with me privately if you get stuck.



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 03:51:12 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:51:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAAdA2WMAbg3Qc=vs6P_vH2V=ERSuFtLvTRnmb8z1bZXZrkOhzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAdA2WMAbg3Qc=vs6P_vH2V=ERSuFtLvTRnmb8z1bZXZrkOhzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGsAs=zqQfNzBoP1DkGcxcDud2Fu8dg7GCpv4io=Mw3JvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Odhiambo,

Many thanks for your help. I would never have stumbled on the configuration
you provided. I won't try to understand it just yet, I'll blindly copy and
paste until I have it working.

I can now bring up the *admin* page, as well as everything under *cgi-bin*,
but what should happen if browse

example.org/mailman/ ?  I get a *Forbidden* error. Should there be a
redirection to *listinfo* ?

As for icons, how do I get the Mailman images to show up on the page?

The installation manual:-

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node10.html

says
% cp $prefix/icons/*.{jpg,png} /path/to/apache/icons

It appears that the FreeBSD installation has copied them to

/usr/local/www/icons

Apache24 has its icons in

/usr/local/www/apache24/icons

I'm not sure they should be kept seperate, but in any case I copied
those from Mailman into the Apache directory, changed mm_cfg.py to
include

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/usr/local/www/apache24/icons/'

but they don't show up. Any idea why?





On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 7 June 2016 at 20:21, John Poltorak <karotlopj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have read these instructions, and don't find them that straightforward -
>> at least there must be some thing implied.
>>
>> It isn't very reassuring when it says this or that *may* be required. I
>> suppose the instructions are more general than specific to my environment.
>> I get a *Forbidden * error after adding this line to httpd.conf
>>
>> ScriptAlias /mailman/      /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>
>> I tried both versions of setting permissions in the Directory
>> directive, but it didn't seem to make
>>
>> any difference - I did restart Apache after each change. I'm sure it
>> must be straightforward, but
>>
>> I haven't mastered it yet.
>>
>>
>
> Hi John,
>
> I install Mailman by hand. So here goes, assuming you have installed
> python from the ports or using pkg and you are using recommended python
> version:
>
>
> 1. Download Mailman sources and extract. I also download the
> indexing+htdig patch and apply that to the source then I run:
> ./configure --with-cgi-gid=80 --with-mail-gid=26    # gid 80 is www and
> gid 26 is mailnull (I use Exim as MTA). decide what is your GIDs for both
> make install
>
> Now mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman
>
> 2. For Apache, you know how to install that, right.
>     You need to include a configuration for Mailman, and you can use mine.
> So at the end of my httpd.conf I have this line:
>
> Include etc/apache24/Includes/*.cf
>
> cd /usr/local/etc/apache24/Includes/ and create mailman.cf as follows
> Please customize the ServerAdmin and anything to do with lists.FQDN to
> match yours:
>
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>   ServerName lists.FQDN
>   ServerAdmin karotlopj at gmail.com
>   RewriteEngine On
>   RewriteRule ^/(mailman|pipermail|icons|htdig)/.+$ - [S=1]
>   RedirectPermanent /htdig /icons/htdig
>   Alias /pipermail "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public"
>   ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>   <Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>      Options FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>      AllowOverride None
>      Order Allow,Deny
>      Allow from all
>      Require all granted
>   </Directory>
>   <Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin/>
>      Options FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>      AllowOverride None
>      Order Allow,Deny
>      Allow from all
>      Require all granted
>   </Directory>
> </VirtualHost>
>
> Of course run apachectl configtest after this to ensure things are fine
> with Apache.
> For me, I run mailman web UI using SSL, but I am not including that here.
> When the time comes, you can figure that out yourself or ask me in private:)
>
> Now, you also need to create your mm_cfg.py
> inside /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ as documented. You can request mine too
> but remember I use Exim and not Postfix and a few things will differ.
>
> Oh, you need the configurations for your MTA. For Exim, we have a
> transparent config to we do not create any aliases for a lists in our MTAs
> alias file.
>
> Last but not least cd /usr/local/mailman/bin and run ./check_perms -f
>
> Feel free to discuss with me privately if you get stuck.
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
> "Oh, the cruft."
>

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 04:01:10 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:01:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archived msgs into a Mailman list
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to import archived msgs which are in a digest form,
originally from a Mailman mailing list, into a new mailing list?

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  8 10:22:01 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:22:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archived msgs into a Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57582A09.1080702@msapiro.net>

On 06/08/2016 01:01 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> Is it possible to import archived msgs which are in a digest form,
> originally from a Mailman mailing list, into a new mailing list?


Maybe, but that's not the best way. The tool is Mailman's bin/arch. Run
it with --help to see it's doc.

The input must be in *nix mbox format. You can convert a digest, but the
best way is if you still have access to the old list, the
archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file already has the messages with
all headers which a digest doesn't have.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  8 10:43:27 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:43:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Mailman with Apache on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGsAs=zqQfNzBoP1DkGcxcDud2Fu8dg7GCpv4io=Mw3JvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuOtPOHPFg2wnvZMQn06EgeQ3TF2BeBHjBD6b4oDQ_3dA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5756E2FE.7020200@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGu9nOyML2Wsnp3P5SDXLugHDDv_yoQ2E8dNmSTeoqwAbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAdA2WMAbg3Qc=vs6P_vH2V=ERSuFtLvTRnmb8z1bZXZrkOhzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH7uOGsAs=zqQfNzBoP1DkGcxcDud2Fu8dg7GCpv4io=Mw3JvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57582F0F.8090506@msapiro.net>

On 06/08/2016 12:51 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> 
> I can now bring up the *admin* page, as well as everything under *cgi-bin*,
> but what should happen if browse
> 
> example.org/mailman/ ?  I get a *Forbidden* error. Should there be a
> redirection to *listinfo* ?


You can do that with, e.g.

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   /mailman/listinfo/


> As for icons, how do I get the Mailman images to show up on the page?
> 
> The installation manual:-
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node10.html
> 
> says
> % cp $prefix/icons/*.{jpg,png} /path/to/apache/icons
> 
> It appears that the FreeBSD installation has copied them to


Are you using a FreeBSD port? If so, See <https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.


> /usr/local/www/icons
> 
> Apache24 has its icons in
> 
> /usr/local/www/apache24/icons
>
> I'm not sure they should be kept seperate, but in any case I copied
> those from Mailman into the Apache directory, changed mm_cfg.py to
> include
> 
> IMAGE_LOGOS = '/usr/local/www/apache24/icons/'
> 
> but they don't show up. Any idea why?

The path beginning with a / is relative the the Apache DocumentRoot that
applies to your Mailman host. Probably just

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'

In any case if you can get an icon with

http://example.com/path/icons/mailman.jpg

Then what you want in this case is

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/path/icons/'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From timothyj at postpartisan.com  Tue Jun  7 17:16:20 2016
From: timothyj at postpartisan.com (Timothy Jasionowski)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 17:16:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Challenge with Apache and Mailman on
 OS X Server
Message-ID: <9B0AE3EA-EEEE-47B0-925F-65DD60925FE2@postpartisan.com>

Hello!

Long time, happy mailman administration, first time poster.

The last implementation I did of mailman was on OS X 10.9 Server and it went relatively well, but my current attempt at implementing it on a box to replace it running OS X 10.11.5/Server 5.x has driven me batty, specifically related to the .cgi prefix presentation in the URI.

On the previous implementation of 2.1.15, the URI would be constructed as:

https://server.domain.tld/mailman/admin/mailing_list/members/add

However, in trying to update my implementation of 2.1.22 in the new server, I?m getting:

https://server.domain.tld/mailman/admin.cgi/mailing_list/members/add

In the initial implementation, I was using a ScriptAlias to direct mailman to the folder, but no rewriting rules.  

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/libexec/mailman/cgi-bin/"

In the new implementation, I?m using an config Include file in the apache configuration, as suggested by MacPorts:

	Include /opt/local/etc/httpd/mailman.conf

Which reads:

# Mailman configuration file fragment for Apache

<IfModule mod_alias.c>
    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/opt/local/libexec/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    Alias /pipermail/ "/opt/local/var/mailman/archives/public/"
    Alias /mailman-icons/ "/opt/local/share/mailman/icons/"
</IfModule>

<Directory "/opt/local/libexec/mailman/cgi-bin">
    Options Indexes Includes MultiViews SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory "/opt/local/share/mailman/icons">
        Options none
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory "/opt/local/var/mailman/archives/public/">
    Options SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

I?ve read the wikis and the Apache documentation and, have fiddled with the CGIEXT setting in Defaults.py, which currently reads

# CGI extension, change using configure script
CGIEXT = '.cgi'

I have changed it to ?? with no success.

Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Timothy



From Peter.Heitzer at rz.uni-regensburg.de  Wed Jun  8 11:19:22 2016
From: Peter.Heitzer at rz.uni-regensburg.de (Peter Heitzer)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 17:19:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong encoding in moderation request mails with
 Mailman 2.1.15
Message-ID: <5758539A0200002C00036379@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>

If a mail held for moderation has a subject encoded in UTF-8 the subject is not correctly displayed in the mail to the moderator and in the
web interface. This is not a big issue but I nevertheless want to mention it.
Do newer 2.x versions still have this behavior or is it already fixed?





----
Dipl.-Inform(FH) Peter Heitzer, peter.heitzer at rz.uni-regensburg.de



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  8 11:35:26 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:35:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Challenge with Apache and Mailman
 on OS X Server
In-Reply-To: <9B0AE3EA-EEEE-47B0-925F-65DD60925FE2@postpartisan.com>
References: <9B0AE3EA-EEEE-47B0-925F-65DD60925FE2@postpartisan.com>
Message-ID: <57583B3E.8060702@msapiro.net>

On 06/07/2016 02:16 PM, Timothy Jasionowski wrote:
> 
> On the previous implementation of 2.1.15, the URI would be constructed as:
> 
> https://server.domain.tld/mailman/admin/mailing_list/members/add
> 
> However, in trying to update my implementation of 2.1.22 in the new server, I?m getting:
> 
> https://server.domain.tld/mailman/admin.cgi/mailing_list/members/add


This Mailman has been configured with the "--with-cgi-ext=.cgi" option.

In Defaults.py you will probably find

CGIEXT = '.CGI'

Putting

CGIEXT = ''

in mm_cfg.py should fix that.

But, see below.


> In the initial implementation, I was using a ScriptAlias to direct mailman to the folder, but no rewriting rules.  
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/libexec/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> 
> In the new implementation, I?m using an config Include file in the apache configuration, as suggested by MacPorts:


Is Mailman installed from a MacPort? If so, see
<https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.


> 	Include /opt/local/etc/httpd/mailman.conf
> 
> Which reads:
> 
> # Mailman configuration file fragment for Apache
> 
> <IfModule mod_alias.c>
>     ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/opt/local/libexec/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>     Alias /pipermail/ "/opt/local/var/mailman/archives/public/"
>     Alias /mailman-icons/ "/opt/local/share/mailman/icons/"
> </IfModule>
> 
> <Directory "/opt/local/libexec/mailman/cgi-bin">
>     Options Indexes Includes MultiViews SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
>     AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> <Directory "/opt/local/share/mailman/icons">
>         Options none
>     AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> <Directory "/opt/local/var/mailman/archives/public/">
>     Options SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
>     AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> I?ve read the wikis and the Apache documentation and, have fiddled with the CGIEXT setting in Defaults.py, which currently reads
> 
> # CGI extension, change using configure script
> CGIEXT = '.cgi'
> 
> I have changed it to ?? with no success.
> 
> Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


By changed it, do you mean in Defaults.py. If so see
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030588>. You should be putting overrides in
mm_cfg.py. If there is a setting for CGIEXT in mm_cfg.py, changing it in
Defaults.py will have no effect.

Also, did you restart Mailman after this change?

If this doesn't explain it, it's some Mac package thing. Look at the
definition of ScriptURL() in Mailman/Utils.py. This is where those URLs
are generated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  9 12:37:16 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 09:37:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong encoding in moderation request mails with
 Mailman 2.1.15
In-Reply-To: <5758539A0200002C00036379@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
References: <5758539A0200002C00036379@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
Message-ID: <c5e981ac-64d1-765e-7060-2dcdb98865b0@msapiro.net>

On 6/8/16 8:19 AM, Peter Heitzer wrote:
> If a mail held for moderation has a subject encoded in UTF-8 the subject is not correctly displayed in the mail to the moderator and in the
> web interface. This is not a big issue but I nevertheless want to mention it.
> Do newer 2.x versions still have this behavior or is it already fixed?


I'm not sure what you are saying.

Suppose we have a message with

Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Try_this_=C4=93?=

Are you saying the subject is displayed literally as

=?utf-8?Q?Try_this_=C4=93?=

or are you saying it is displayed as

Try this ?

If the former, it's a bug, but I don't see that in current Mailman 2.1.22+

If the latter, that's the expected behavior because the character (?)
doesn't exist in the character set of the list's preferred language.
Both the admindb web pages and the notice to the admin are encoded in
the character set of the list's preferred language. For English, that is
us-ascii, so non-ascii characters can't be displayed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From timothy.d at jasionow.ski  Thu Jun  9 21:49:37 2016
From: timothy.d at jasionow.ski (Timothy Jasionowski)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 21:49:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Useful Mailman-Postfix Configuration Information
 for OS X Server Implementers on Yosemite, El Capitan and later builds
Message-ID: <39C74E88-FDE2-44C2-A895-C2F98E91C4D9@jasionow.ski>

All,

After some puzzlement and some hard-earned technical consideration, OS X Server 5.1.x and later implementers (the current version independent Server bundle) have a new challenge to take into consideration.  I?m posting this so that people googling/searching later might skip this painful step and/or have it added to future documentation.

As configured today, a mailman implementation running locally would face some version of this relay error in the mail.log:

postfix/smtpd[53192]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 554 5.7.1 <user at foreigndomain.tld <mailto:user at foreigndomain.tld>>: Relay access denied; from=<testinglist-bounces at localdomain.tld <mailto:testinglist-bounces at localdomain.tld>> to=<user at foreigndomain.tld <mailto:user at foreigndomain.tld>> proto=ESMTP helo=<server.localdomain.tld>

Earlier versions of Server shipped with pre-2.10 versions of postfix (10.9.x, for example, runs 2.9.4 today).  However, with 5.1.x, Apple now implements 2.11, though it has not updated the configuration file to cope with the transition from the former smtpd_recipient_restrictions to the post-2.10 smptd_relay_restrictions parameter.  As most people are going to look at smtpd_client_restrictions and mynetworks to diagnose and not notice that the deprecated parameter is still there in lieu of the current hotness, there may be hours of frustration trying to diagnose that the problem lies in a pre-2.10 configuration file used in the current builds.  

To correct this, might I suggest postfix main.cf changes:

# smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated reject_unauth_destination permit
smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated reject_unauth_destination

This change corrected the relay restriction immediately upon restart.

I hope this helps others out in their implementation.  There seems to be little documented implementation instruction for mailman on OS X Server 5.1.x.

Good luck!

Timothy

From Peter.Heitzer at rz.uni-regensburg.de  Fri Jun 10 08:17:42 2016
From: Peter.Heitzer at rz.uni-regensburg.de (Peter Heitzer)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:17:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong encoding in moderation request mails with
 Mailman 2.1.15
In-Reply-To: <c5e981ac-64d1-765e-7060-2dcdb98865b0@msapiro.net>
References: <5758539A0200002C00036379@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
 <c5e981ac-64d1-765e-7060-2dcdb98865b0@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <575ACC060200002C00036414@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>

 >>> On 06/09/2016 at 18:37, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote: 
> On 6/8/16 8:19 AM, Peter Heitzer wrote:
>> If a mail held for moderation has a subject encoded in UTF-8 the subject is

> not correctly displayed in the mail to the moderator and in the
>> web interface. This is not a big issue but I nevertheless want to mention 
> it.
>> Do newer 2.x versions still have this behavior or is it already fixed?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are saying.
> 
> Suppose we have a message with
> 
> Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Try_this_=C4=93?=
> 
> Are you saying the subject is displayed literally as
> 
> =?utf-8?Q?Try_this_=C4=93?=
> 
> or are you saying it is displayed as
> 
> Try this ?
> 
> If the former, it's a bug, but I don't see that in current Mailman 2.1.22+
> 
> If the latter, that's the expected behavior because the character (?)
> doesn't exist in the character set of the list's preferred language.
> Both the admindb web pages and the notice to the admin are encoded in
> the character set of the list's preferred language. For English, that is
> us-ascii, so non-ascii characters can't be displayed.
It is the latter. If I set the language to german, I get the umlauts displayed
correctly.
So it is the expected behavior although at least for the web pages I would
have expected to
get the correct display of the subject.




----
Dipl.-Inform(FH) Peter Heitzer, peter.heitzer at rz.uni-regensburg.de


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 10 12:25:06 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:25:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong encoding in moderation request mails with
 Mailman 2.1.15
In-Reply-To: <575ACC060200002C00036414@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
References: <5758539A0200002C00036379@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
 <c5e981ac-64d1-765e-7060-2dcdb98865b0@msapiro.net>
 <575ACC060200002C00036414@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
Message-ID: <575AE9E2.1020104@msapiro.net>

On 06/10/2016 05:17 AM, Peter Heitzer wrote:

> It is the latter. If I set the language to german, I get the umlauts displayed
> correctly.
> So it is the expected behavior although at least for the web pages I would
> have expected to
> get the correct display of the subject.


If you want to avoid this issue on lists whose preferred language is
English and you have access to the server, you can change Mailman's
character set for English by putting

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8')

in mm_cfg.py. The downside of doing this is that message body parts that
have Mailman added msg_header or msg_footer will be base64 encoded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jon.clements at umass.edu  Sun Jun 12 13:32:12 2016
From: jon.clements at umass.edu (Jon Clements)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:32:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: apple-crop post from rbarthel@wi.rr.com
 requires approval
In-Reply-To: <5381_1465739933_575D6A9D_5381_5417_1_mailman.32.1465739928.211.apple-crop@virtualorchard.com>
References: <5381_1465739933_575D6A9D_5381_5417_1_mailman.32.1465739928.211.apple-crop@virtualorchard.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+dOAcYZ7DcCXqDO0X1LxNFwOHi1SU1fgrecogRRULz-OXB3w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, any idea why when I visit the admindb page it says "There are no
pending requests." What should I look for??? I believe it has worked
previously. Mailman 2.1.20 running on Yosemite 10.10.5 after a novice
installation (that was a hoot!) but has been working seemingly OK for
several months.

Thanks for any help.

Jon

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <apple-crop-owner at virtualorchard.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 9:58 AM
Subject: apple-crop post from rbarthel at wi.rr.com requires approval
To: apple-crop-owner at virtualorchard.com


As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

    List:    apple-crop at virtualorchard.com
    From:    rbarthel at wi.rr.com
    Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] TAP
    Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list

At your convenience, visit:

    http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/admindb/apple-crop

to approve or deny the request.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Barthel <rbarthel at wi.rr.com>
To: Apple-Crop discussion list <apple-crop at virtualorchard.com>
Cc:
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 08:58:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] TAP
I have an orchard in Mequon WI - just north of Milwaukee.  I applied for
TAP in October 2014.  The process has been a nightmare.  I just received
payment for the program.  The local FSA office personal changed the rules
on how the application was written after I complied with their initial
requirements.  That change 'disqualified' 90% of my damage.  I had to fight
the local office at the state level.  The state level coordinator
disallowed all damaged trees.  The federal record for the program allows
credit for damaged trees.  I had blocks of Honeycrisp (6000+ trees) with 30
- 40% dead trunks - southwest injury from the -28 degrees.  Damage in the
block was 80% of the trees. None of that injury was credited under the
program rules.  I have to remove those trees as they are getting infected
with black rot and other fungi .  The state officer stated if the tree can
grow one apple - it's not damaged even if the whole top or one side is
dead. I submitted a claim for over $14,500 using the formula they required
just for the dead trees.  Payment was $5,800.  Better than nothing but
never again.  The amount of time documenting the orchard loss, time lost in
many 3+ hours meetings,  upset and bad feelings do not compensate me for
trying to work with FSA.  I'm never going back to FSA for any program!
Bob Barthel
Barthel Fruit Farm


On 6/11/2016 10:07 AM, Pat Curran wrote:

> I'd like to know what, if any, experience fellow growers might have had
> with the government's Tree Assistance Program (TAP) that was put in place a
> couple of years ago to "assist" growers with replanting (replacing) trees
> that were killed by the severe winter of '14?
>
>
> Pat Curran
> Currans Orchard
> 6385 Kilburn Avenue
> Rockford, Illinois 61101
> 815-963-7848
> pat at curransorchard.com
> www.curransorchard.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop at virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>
>



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: apple-crop-request at virtualorchard.com
To:
Cc:
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:58:48 -0400
Subject: confirm d8d143008d11186c3104c457d97b827be0f8257f
If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
of the body of the reply.



-- 
Jon Clements
aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
UMass Cold Spring Orchard
393 Sabin St.
Belchertown, MA  01007
413-478-7219
umassfruit.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 13 12:08:15 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:08:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: apple-crop post from rbarthel@wi.rr.com
 requires approval
In-Reply-To: <CAN+dOAcYZ7DcCXqDO0X1LxNFwOHi1SU1fgrecogRRULz-OXB3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5381_1465739933_575D6A9D_5381_5417_1_mailman.32.1465739928.211.apple-crop@virtualorchard.com>
 <CAN+dOAcYZ7DcCXqDO0X1LxNFwOHi1SU1fgrecogRRULz-OXB3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <575EDA6F.6080208@msapiro.net>

On 06/12/2016 10:32 AM, Jon Clements wrote:
> Hi, any idea why when I visit the admindb page it says "There are no
> pending requests." What should I look for??? I believe it has worked
> previously. Mailman 2.1.20 running on Yosemite 10.10.5 after a novice
> installation (that was a hoot!) but has been working seemingly OK for
> several months.


If you only received the one notice and nothing further, it is likely
the user canceled the post before you went to the admindb page. Check
Mailman's vette log for more.

Since it was a non-member post, a likely scenario is the user replied to
a list post from the 'wrong' address, received the held post notice,
realized his mistake, canceled the post and reposted from the his member
address.

If on the other hand you are receiving a daily 'n moderator requests'
notice, see <https://wiki.list.org/x/8683538>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 03:36:26 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 08:36:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archived msgs into a Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <57582A09.1080702@msapiro.net>
References: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57582A09.1080702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGvLtohs2oaJFQfoGPs7FLNBH132i2eLgEcJumrpAx0zOw@mail.gmail.com>

I have managed to obtain all the msgs as individual files. I'm not  sure of
the mbox format, but hopefully I can create it... Isn't it just a
concatenation of all the individual files as a single file? There's
probably more to it, but hopefully it is doable without too much difficulty.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 06/08/2016 01:01 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> > Is it possible to import archived msgs which are in a digest form,
> > originally from a Mailman mailing list, into a new mailing list?
>
>
> Maybe, but that's not the best way. The tool is Mailman's bin/arch. Run
> it with --help to see it's doc.
>
> The input must be in *nix mbox format. You can convert a digest, but the
> best way is if you still have access to the old list, the
> archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file already has the messages with
> all headers which a digest doesn't have.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/karotlopj%40gmail.com
>

From lists at damorris.com  Tue Jun 14 06:45:11 2016
From: lists at damorris.com (Adam Morris)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:45:11 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems unsubscribing from lists using email
 address?
Message-ID: <86d218fd-b1a9-2c7d-27ac-41cc15b78f81@damorris.com>

Hi all,


in the footer of messages for lists I run I put a link for people to 
unsubscribe.

the link is

listname dash unsubscribe at domain.

If someone clicks on this link and sends a message there is no 
confirmation and they stay subscribed.

If i go to the members interface and untick the box they get unsubscribed.


If someone tries to subscribe using the same method it works fine.

Assistance appreciated.




-- 


Adam Morris

email:
adam at damorris.com


		


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Jun 14 10:59:52 2016
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:59:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems unsubscribing from lists using email
 address?
In-Reply-To: <86d218fd-b1a9-2c7d-27ac-41cc15b78f81@damorris.com>
References: <86d218fd-b1a9-2c7d-27ac-41cc15b78f81@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <20160614145952.GS4266@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 08:45:11PM +1000, Adam Morris wrote:
> in the footer of messages for lists I run I put a link for people to
> unsubscribe.
> 
> the link is
> 
> listname dash unsubscribe at domain.
> 
> If someone clicks on this link and sends a message there is no confirmation
> and they stay subscribed.
> 
> If i go to the members interface and untick the box they get unsubscribed.
> 
> 
> If someone tries to subscribe using the same method it works fine.
> 
> Assistance appreciated.

Do you have the "-unsubscribe" suffix set-up in your MTA? Either globally, or
for that/those list(s)?

For exim, something like `exim -bt foo-unsubscribe at lists.example.net` should
help you.

It's possibly worth checking the logs of your MTA to see what happens, as well
as the Mailman 'subscribe' log.

I'm guessing this isn't as simple as the link not being
"mailto:foo-unsubscribe?" (but wouldn't rule that out).


-- 
?
"The Minister's office rang back saying that he would be delighted
 to see me for tea. That evening I went home, very excited, and
 told my partner, 'I'm going to see the Minister for tea.' He
 replied, 'There's a Minister for Tea?'"
    ? Chris Bryant, MP
      (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?gid=2008-10-23a.149.1)

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 12:06:20 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 09:06:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archived msgs into a Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGvLtohs2oaJFQfoGPs7FLNBH132i2eLgEcJumrpAx0zOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57582A09.1080702@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGvLtohs2oaJFQfoGPs7FLNBH132i2eLgEcJumrpAx0zOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57602B7C.7050108@msapiro.net>

On 06/14/2016 12:36 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> I have managed to obtain all the msgs as individual files. I'm not  sure
> of the mbox format, but hopefully I can create it... Isn't it just a
> concatenation of all the individual files as a single file? There's
> probably more to it, but hopefully it is doable without too much difficulty.


A .mbox is not quite the concatenation of the individual messages. I
have attached an excerpt of a .mbox file with two messages. The key is
that the first line of each message is a 'From_' separator that looks like

'From email at address date'

It begins literally with 'From ' and no other lines in the mbox begin
with these 5 characters - this is why you sometimes see lines in the
body of an email that begin 'From ' escaped by inserting '>' as in
'>From '. For the purposes of bin/arch, the actual contents after the
leading 'From ' are not important, but in general, there should be an
email address representing the envelope sender of the message and a date
in the format of the example. See, e.g.,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 19 14:35:45 2013
Return-Path: <mark at msapiro.net>
X-Original-To: list1 at msapiro.net
Delivered-To: list1 at msapiro.net
Received: by msapiro.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
 id 918F54C0E07; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:35:45 -0700
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at ccsf.edu>
To: list1 at msapiro.net
Message-ID: <20130619213545.GA3859 at msapiro.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
Subject: [List1] Test 3
X-BeenThere: list1 at msapiro.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <list1.msapiro.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://msapiro.net/mailman/options/list1>,
 <mailto:list1-request at msapiro.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://msapiro.net/pipermail/list1/>
List-Post: <mailto:list1 at msapiro.net>
List-Help: <mailto:list1-request at msapiro.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://msapiro.net/mailman/listinfo/list1>,
 <mailto:list1-request at msapiro.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:35:45 -0000

Wow

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 19 14:36:25 2013
Return-Path: <mark at msapiro.net>
X-Original-To: list1 at msapiro.net
Delivered-To: list1 at msapiro.net
Received: by msapiro.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
 id D095C4C0E07; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:36:25 -0700
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at ccsf.edu>
To: list1 at msapiro.net
Message-ID: <20130619213625.GB3859 at msapiro.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
Subject: [List1] Test4
X-BeenThere: list1 at msapiro.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <list1.msapiro.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://msapiro.net/mailman/options/list1>,
 <mailto:list1-request at msapiro.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://msapiro.net/pipermail/list1/>
List-Post: <mailto:list1 at msapiro.net>
List-Help: <mailto:list1-request at msapiro.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://msapiro.net/mailman/listinfo/list1>,
 <mailto:list1-request at msapiro.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:36:25 -0000

abcdef

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ed.beu at alaska.gov  Mon Jun 13 14:23:42 2016
From: ed.beu at alaska.gov (Beu, Ed (DOA))
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:23:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman
Message-ID: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B5056A@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>

Hello,

This may not be the correct forum for this question, but in hopes that it is, I have an HTML type question.

We are planning to replace our current listserv software with Mailman 2.x. Our root URL will not be changing, but each lists subscription pages will be different.

Example:            http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm                   <current>
                             http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname       <Mailman's link>

We would like some type of redirect in place on the new mailman server that would simply display the new link (so that it can be copied) when someone uses an old bookmark or hyperlink on a different website.

Our Mailman version is 2.1.20 from Yum, on CentOS 6.7, running Apache & Postfix & Mimedefang.

Note: I'm an HTML greenie, so any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Thx, Ed

Ed Beu , Systems Programmer
Enterprise Technology Services
Department of Administration
619 E Shipcreek Ave., Ste 232
Anchorage, AK 99501-1677
[ETSLogo]----------------------------------------
*Desk:(907)269-6790
?Fax: (907)269-6719
* ed.beu at alaska.gov<mailto:ed.beu at alaska.gov>
" http://www.doa.alaska.gov/ets/
----------------------------------------



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 13:05:11 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:05:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman
In-Reply-To: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B5056A@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>
References: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B5056A@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>
Message-ID: <57603947.6040609@msapiro.net>

On 06/13/2016 11:23 AM, Beu, Ed (DOA) wrote:
> 
> Example:            http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm                   <current>
>                              http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname       <Mailman's link>
> 
> We would like some type of redirect in place on the new mailman server that would simply display the new link (so that it can be copied) when someone uses an old bookmark or hyperlink on a different website.


There are various ways to do this depending on what you want the user to
see.

If I understand the URL scheme above something in Apache like

RedirectMatch ^/lists/(.*)/jl.htm  /mailman/listinfo/$1

would serve to redirect http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm to
http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname for any 'listname', but if
you actually want to display something to the user, you could create a
replacement lists/listname/jl.htm containing something like

----------------------------------------------------------
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<title>List listname - page has moved</title>
<meta http-equiv="refresh"
  content="5;
  URL=http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">
</head>
<body>

<h2>Page Moved</h2>
<p>
The page for the listname list has moved.<br>
The new location is
<a href="http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">
http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname</a>.<br>
You will go there automatically in 5 seconds.
</p>

</body>
</html>
----------------------------------------------------------

This will display the page and go to the new page after 5 seconds. You
would need one of these per list. If you want to change the delay,
change '5' to whatever you want in the

 content="5;

line and the

You will go there automatically in 5 seconds.

line. If you want the user to have to click, remove the

<meta http-equiv="refresh"
  content="5;
  URL=http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">

lines and the "You will go there automatically" line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 13:17:59 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:17:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems unsubscribing from lists using email
 address?
In-Reply-To: <86d218fd-b1a9-2c7d-27ac-41cc15b78f81@damorris.com>
References: <86d218fd-b1a9-2c7d-27ac-41cc15b78f81@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <57603C47.30301@msapiro.net>

On 06/14/2016 03:45 AM, Adam Morris wrote:
> 
> in the footer of messages for lists I run I put a link for people to
> unsubscribe.
> 
> the link is
> 
> listname dash unsubscribe at domain.


If the user actually sends mail to 'listname-unsubscribe at domain' and
receives no response at all, something is wrong with delivery to that
address. There should be a "The results of your email commands" response
in any case, even if the From: address is not the subscribed address.

So as Adam McGregor suggests, check the logs of the MTA to see if the
mail is received and delivered properly to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 13:21:51 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:21:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems unsubscribing from lists using email
 address?
In-Reply-To: <20160614145952.GS4266@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <86d218fd-b1a9-2c7d-27ac-41cc15b78f81@damorris.com>
 <20160614145952.GS4266@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <57603D2F.4060301@msapiro.net>

On 06/14/2016 07:59 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> 
> I'm guessing this isn't as simple as the link not being
> "mailto:foo-unsubscribe?" (but wouldn't rule that out).


You can't put mailto: links or other HTML in a list's msg_footer and
have them rendered as HTML because the msg_footer is always in a
text/plain part. The best you can do is put something like
<foo-unsubscribe at example.com> and hope the user's MUA makes that a
clickable mailto.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ed.beu at alaska.gov  Tue Jun 14 13:35:25 2016
From: ed.beu at alaska.gov (Beu, Ed (DOA))
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:35:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman
In-Reply-To: <57603947.6040609@msapiro.net>
References: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B5056A@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>
 <57603947.6040609@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B51F41@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>

Thanks very much for the information. Good to know I was on the right track, but even with your verification and better code, the redirect still takes me to the new /listinfo/listname (subscribe) page rather than the new jl.htm page.

I have put the new jl.htm at /var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/jl.htm

And, the redirection code at /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf
	# Uncomment the following line, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).
	RedirectMatch ^/soalists/(.*)/jl.htm /mailman/listinfo/$1
	RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ /mailman/listinfo
	RedirectMatch ^[/]*$ /mailman/listinfo

I suspected the last two lines of RedirectMatch were causing the issue, but I get the same result if I remark them out.

Thanks again!
~Ed

Ed Beu, Systems Programmer
Dept. of Administration, ETS
(907)269-6790 ed.beu at alaska.gov



-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+ed.beu=alaska.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 9:05 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman

On 06/13/2016 11:23 AM, Beu, Ed (DOA) wrote:
> 
> Example:            http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm                   <current>
>                              http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname       <Mailman's link>
> 
> We would like some type of redirect in place on the new mailman server that would simply display the new link (so that it can be copied) when someone uses an old bookmark or hyperlink on a different website.


There are various ways to do this depending on what you want the user to
see.

If I understand the URL scheme above something in Apache like

RedirectMatch ^/lists/(.*)/jl.htm  /mailman/listinfo/$1

would serve to redirect http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm to
http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname for any 'listname', but if
you actually want to display something to the user, you could create a
replacement lists/listname/jl.htm containing something like

----------------------------------------------------------
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<title>List listname - page has moved</title>
<meta http-equiv="refresh"
  content="5;
  URL=http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">
</head>
<body>

<h2>Page Moved</h2>
<p>
The page for the listname list has moved.<br>
The new location is
<a href="http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">
http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname</a>.<br>
You will go there automatically in 5 seconds.
</p>

</body>
</html>
----------------------------------------------------------

This will display the page and go to the new page after 5 seconds. You
would need one of these per list. If you want to change the delay,
change '5' to whatever you want in the

 content="5;

line and the

You will go there automatically in 5 seconds.

line. If you want the user to have to click, remove the

<meta http-equiv="refresh"
  content="5;
  URL=http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">

lines and the "You will go there automatically" line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ed.beu%40alaska.gov

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 13:51:02 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:51:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archived msgs into a Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <57602B7C.7050108@msapiro.net>
References: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57582A09.1080702@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGvLtohs2oaJFQfoGPs7FLNBH132i2eLgEcJumrpAx0zOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57602B7C.7050108@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGsao=WRNNrJoXL0_70OtdbAaJvka0EWX8Nk_L5Y2Gz4=Q@mail.gmail.com>

I think each msg starts with *Return-Path:*
so I guess I need to insert an extra line at the start of each msg...

A simple sed script should suffice to convert each msg. Do I just need to
insert '*From *'  as the first line of each msg?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 06/14/2016 12:36 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> > I have managed to obtain all the msgs as individual files. I'm not  sure
> > of the mbox format, but hopefully I can create it... Isn't it just a
> > concatenation of all the individual files as a single file? There's
> > probably more to it, but hopefully it is doable without too much
> difficulty.
>
>
> A .mbox is not quite the concatenation of the individual messages. I
> have attached an excerpt of a .mbox file with two messages. The key is
> that the first line of each message is a 'From_' separator that looks like
>
> 'From email at address date'
>
> It begins literally with 'From ' and no other lines in the mbox begin
> with these 5 characters - this is why you sometimes see lines in the
> body of an email that begin 'From ' escaped by inserting '>' as in
> '>From '. For the purposes of bin/arch, the actual contents after the
> leading 'From ' are not important, but in general, there should be an
> email address representing the envelope sender of the message and a date
> in the format of the example. See, e.g.,
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 14:00:37 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:00:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring 'example.org' as virtual host on
 localhost
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGsBUUokcHG2FquLYM73bFtj9s3qE0T26HpjXpNDMkVpsA@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone explain what I need to do to properly set up Mailman and Apache
so that I can browse to *http://example.org/mailman
<http://example.org/mailman>* ?

As far as Mailman is concerned I think I only need to edit mm_cfg.py

I'm not sure about Apache... Also I guess I need to include an entry in the
hosts file to point exampl.org at localhost

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 14:06:37 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:06:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archived msgs into a Mailman list
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGsao=WRNNrJoXL0_70OtdbAaJvka0EWX8Nk_L5Y2Gz4=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuirwCj+og07kRoZT2M_TZXXQ8JJc-AXQgWVjexNxNeKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57582A09.1080702@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGvLtohs2oaJFQfoGPs7FLNBH132i2eLgEcJumrpAx0zOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57602B7C.7050108@msapiro.net>
 <CAH7uOGsao=WRNNrJoXL0_70OtdbAaJvka0EWX8Nk_L5Y2Gz4=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <576047AD.9000402@msapiro.net>

On 06/14/2016 10:51 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> I think each msg starts with *Return-Path:*
> so I guess I need to insert an extra line at the start of each msg...
> 
> A simple sed script should suffice to convert each msg. Do I just need
> to insert '*From *'  as the first line of each msg?

Ideally, you insert

'From address date`

where address is the address without the <> from the Return-Path: and
date is the string produced by the 'date' command.

The attached addfrom script is what I use. It's overly complex for your
purpose and converts one message in one file in place. You could
probably adapt it to your purpose.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
#! /bin/bash
#
# Convert a single saved email with a Return-Path: as its first line
# to a mailbox by adding a From_
#
if [ ! -w "$1" ]; then
  echo usage: addfrom file
  exit
fi
d=`date`
f1=`mktemp`
f2=`mktemp`
head -1 "$1" > $f1
if grep -q -i -e "^From " $f1 ; then
  echo File already has From_ line
  rm $f1 $f2
  exit
fi
if ! grep -q -i -e "^return-path:" $f1 ; then
  echo "Return-Path: <bogus at example.com>" > $f1
fi
sed -e "s/^.*</From /" -e "s/>.*/  $d/" <$f1 >$f2
# strip any trailing <cr>s
sed -e 's/\r$//' < "$1" >> $f2
# make sure we have a trailing empty line
echo >$f1
cat $f2 $f1 $f1 > "$1"
rm $f1 $f2


From ed.beu at alaska.gov  Tue Jun 14 15:05:15 2016
From: ed.beu at alaska.gov (Beu, Ed (DOA))
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:05:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman
In-Reply-To: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B51F41@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>
References: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B5056A@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>
 <57603947.6040609@msapiro.net>
 <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B51F41@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>
Message-ID: <77788B6418FB6E4CB10D483D7DAC164C0101B52137@SOAANCEXMB9.soa.alaska.gov>

We've removed the redirect and created the jl.htm files where Apache can see them and display the HTML message. This works as planned.

Thx, Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+ed.beu=alaska.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Beu, Ed (DOA)
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman

Thanks very much for the information. Good to know I was on the right track, but even with your verification and better code, the redirect still takes me to the new /listinfo/listname (subscribe) page rather than the new jl.htm page.

I have put the new jl.htm at /var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/jl.htm

And, the redirection code at /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf
	# Uncomment the following line, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).
	RedirectMatch ^/soalists/(.*)/jl.htm /mailman/listinfo/$1
	RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ /mailman/listinfo
	RedirectMatch ^[/]*$ /mailman/listinfo

I suspected the last two lines of RedirectMatch were causing the issue, but I get the same result if I remark them out.

Thanks again!
~Ed


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+ed.beu=alaska.gov at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 9:05 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] migrating current list links to mailman

On 06/13/2016 11:23 AM, Beu, Ed (DOA) wrote:
> 
> Example:            http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm                   <current>
>                              http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname       <Mailman's link>
> 
> We would like some type of redirect in place on the new mailman server that would simply display the new link (so that it can be copied) when someone uses an old bookmark or hyperlink on a different website.


There are various ways to do this depending on what you want the user to
see.

If I understand the URL scheme above something in Apache like

RedirectMatch ^/lists/(.*)/jl.htm  /mailman/listinfo/$1

would serve to redirect http:/list.domain/lists/listname/jl.htm to
http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname for any 'listname', but if
you actually want to display something to the user, you could create a
replacement lists/listname/jl.htm containing something like

----------------------------------------------------------
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<title>List listname - page has moved</title>
<meta http-equiv="refresh"
  content="5;
  URL=http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">
</head>
<body>

<h2>Page Moved</h2>
<p>
The page for the listname list has moved.<br>
The new location is
<a href="http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">
http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname</a>.<br>
You will go there automatically in 5 seconds.
</p>

</body>
</html>
----------------------------------------------------------

This will display the page and go to the new page after 5 seconds. You
would need one of these per list. If you want to change the delay,
change '5' to whatever you want in the

 content="5;

line and the

You will go there automatically in 5 seconds.

line. If you want the user to have to click, remove the

<meta http-equiv="refresh"
  content="5;
  URL=http:/list.domain/mailman/listinfo/listname">

lines and the "You will go there automatically" line.



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 14 15:17:30 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 12:17:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring 'example.org' as virtual host on
 localhost
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGsBUUokcHG2FquLYM73bFtj9s3qE0T26HpjXpNDMkVpsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGsBUUokcHG2FquLYM73bFtj9s3qE0T26HpjXpNDMkVpsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5760584A.40002@msapiro.net>

On 06/14/2016 11:00 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> Can someone explain what I need to do to properly set up Mailman and Apache
> so that I can browse to *http://example.org/mailman
> <http://example.org/mailman>* ?
> 
> As far as Mailman is concerned I think I only need to edit mm_cfg.py
> 
> I'm not sure about Apache... Also I guess I need to include an entry in the
> hosts file to point exampl.org at localhost


In Apache, you need within the VirtualHost block for example.com or in a
global section

ScriptAlias /mailman/       /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/

<Directory "/path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/">
    Options ExecCGI
    Require all granted
</Directory>

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   /mailman/listinfo

These are for Apache 2.4. For 2.2 and earlier, instead of

    Require all granted

you need

    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

If you ereally mean literally 'example.org' you can't access that from
outside your local network. Putting an entry in /etc/hosts will work for
the local machine (only).

If example.org is an example, what you need is an A record in DNS for
the domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From karotlopj at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 06:49:11 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:49:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove individual msgs from archive
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGuSw8_ou3JPbEo=R6VN9dHzP1Ni+TQcwUtkD0E6nera6g@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible via the admin interface to remove individual msgs from an
archive?

There is always the chance that something inappropriate gets posted and
isn't immediately spotted. Or even if it is spotted straight after it has
been posted...

From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jun 15 07:36:54 2016
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 07:36:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove individual msgs from archive
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGuSw8_ou3JPbEo=R6VN9dHzP1Ni+TQcwUtkD0E6nera6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGuSw8_ou3JPbEo=R6VN9dHzP1Ni+TQcwUtkD0E6nera6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201606150736.54618.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 15 June 2016, John Poltorak wrote:
> Is it possible via the admin interface to remove individual msgs from an
> archive?
>
> There is always the chance that something inappropriate gets posted and
> isn't immediately spotted. Or even if it is spotted straight after it has
> been posted...

Pretty sure the answer is still no. Requested this myself about six years 
ago. Have hope we will get this ability in Mailman 3! 
-- 
William

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 15 10:00:48 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 07:00:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove individual msgs from archive
In-Reply-To: <201606150736.54618.rb211@tds.net>
References: <CAH7uOGuSw8_ou3JPbEo=R6VN9dHzP1Ni+TQcwUtkD0E6nera6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <201606150736.54618.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <57615F90.9020302@msapiro.net>

On 06/15/2016 04:36 AM, William Bagwell wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 June 2016, John Poltorak wrote:
>> Is it possible via the admin interface to remove individual msgs from an
>> archive?
> 
> Pretty sure the answer is still no. Requested this myself about six years 
> ago. Have hope we will get this ability in Mailman 3! 


The answer is still no. For what you can do, see
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030681>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From apadmaraju at guidewire.com  Wed Jun 15 03:39:21 2016
From: apadmaraju at guidewire.com (Anilkumar Padmaraju)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 07:39:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Important: How to find the mailman list owner real
 email address
Message-ID: <BN3PR0501MB1522247D31AD0F1D2F071597D2550@BN3PR0501MB1522.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

This is important any help will be great!

For example, if the mailman list name is test at mailman.example.com<mailto:test at mailman.example.com> the owner will be test-owner at mailman.example.com<mailto:test-owner at mailman.example.com>, but we have to find the actual owner person email with his/her name like name at example.com<mailto:name at example.com>.  Is there any file in mailman which contains the person emails of the list owner.  We can find one by one by going to mailman.example.com/mailman/admin link, clicking a list, and seeing the username there.  But we have over 300 mailing lists, and manually going to each link and checking is time consuming.

If there is one file or a command to run and find owners email with their name, that would help a lot.

Please let me know.

Thank you,

Anil.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 15 10:25:11 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 07:25:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Important: How to find the mailman list owner
 real email address
In-Reply-To: <BN3PR0501MB1522247D31AD0F1D2F071597D2550@BN3PR0501MB1522.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN3PR0501MB1522247D31AD0F1D2F071597D2550@BN3PR0501MB1522.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <57616547.8010205@msapiro.net>

On 06/15/2016 12:39 AM, Anilkumar Padmaraju wrote:
> 
> If there is one file or a command to run and find owners email with
> their name, that would help a lot.


There are actually two with slightly different behavior. Mailman's
bin/list_owners and bin/list_admins. Give the commands with the --help
option for more info.

Also see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030671>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jun 16 03:08:19 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:08:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove individual msgs from archive
In-Reply-To: <201606150736.54618.rb211@tds.net>
References: <CAH7uOGuSw8_ou3JPbEo=R6VN9dHzP1Ni+TQcwUtkD0E6nera6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <201606150736.54618.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <22370.20579.735227.737612@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

William Bagwell writes:

 > Pretty sure the answer is still no. Requested this myself about six years 
 > ago. Have hope we will get this ability in Mailman 3! 

Definitely not in Mailman 3 core, it will depend on the archiver.  For
example, if the backend is mail-archive.com, no -- you'll have to go
through mail-archive.com.

If the backend is HyperKitty (part of the Mailman 3 bundle), it's
definitely possible (HyperKitty stores messages in a database, not in
individual HTML files identified by order in an mbox), but I don't
know if it's implemented yet.

I don't have time to check the HyperKitty dox today, sorry, but you
can follow this issue:

    https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues/89

which is an RFE for exactly that.


From john at cibolo.com  Fri Jun 17 10:58:25 2016
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:58:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
Message-ID: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>

The rest of mailman version 2.1.22
is working fine with SSL and some rewriting by nginx and yet
https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/open_electroporator  gives a message
"will be sent over an insecure connection" when I seta button to discard and then do
the submit all data button.

Is there a way to use SSL here?

Or... will I need to disable SSL for this page to get that submit to work?

From chris.puchalski at raytheon.com  Fri Jun 17 11:25:12 2016
From: chris.puchalski at raytheon.com (Christopher A Puchalski)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 08:25:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <OF75DB9C8D.0CF61BBC-ON07257FD5.00542723-07257FD5.0054B46B@raytheon.com>


I think it has to do the 'DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN' setting as discussed here:

https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.27%20Securing%20Mailman%27s%20web%20GUI%20by%20using%20Secure%20HTTP-SSL

Not sure you are having the same problem that I did at one point but this
was causing the moderation page to not work in my case until I adjusted to
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/', Prior to that setting I
remember a similar error and the bigger issue was anything I did in
moderation just didn't have a real effect. I would  select to delete or
allow and either way nothing would change. After that fix the moderation
page just worked.

Good luck.


Christopher Puchalski



From:	John Griessen <john at cibolo.com>
To:	mailman-users at python.org
Date:	06/17/2016 08:04 AM
Subject:	[Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
Sent by:	"Mailman-Users" <mailman-users-bounces
            +chris.puchalski=raytheon.com at python.org>



The rest of mailman version 2.1.22
is working fine with SSL and some rewriting by nginx and yet
https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/open_electroporator  gives a message
"will be sent over an insecure connection" when I seta button to discard
and then do
the submit all data button.

Is there a way to use SSL here?

Or... will I need to disable SSL for this page to get that submit to work?
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/chris.puchalski%40raytheon.com


From james at dorydesign.com  Thu Jun 16 17:39:16 2016
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:39:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us down
 for spam abuse
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>

We have a community list-serv for local trade and community announcements
with a subscriber base of nearly 2200 people. Our police and city use it
for public service announcements, people use it for selling/trading
virtually anything (seal oil, outboards, guns, blue berries, you name it)
and is by subscription only.

If someone is not a member, they cannot post. When a member posts, it goes
to all others subscribers.

Any suggestions on how to answer this:

Here is the threat (hopefully I've removed personal emails from it):

Hello,

These cross promotion posts from your mailing list will need to cease or we
will not host you any further. We have mounting complaints from AOL, Yahoo
and Hotmail with some of which are now blocking the server you're on
specifically because of your mailings. This is not isolated to a single set
of users complaining it's a large amount that is enough for these providers
to take action. Here's an example of Hotmail complaining today:

X-HmXmrOriginalRecipient: < <tylerwcase at hotmail.com>snip>
X-Reporter-IP: 72.169.153.180
X-Message-Guid: e33ffe03-30cf-11e6-80b9-00215ad73ee2
x-store-info:qAUQJzZ73IJCLUJ+0n7ZQ5Y+hDtA5T0pTzngeWExSOA+js5BQ3esJZEb/
hCqmGYMGDPlv0qhfifSNEBY0EeR7jdY3RHpNqJWr7fgFVdKgCT42ZLOh4B1Z
k6HwMHyTEbaui0SFrS8NYUVpqQ8zI3RRBiLXYw949+B
Authentication-Results: hotmail.com; spf=pass (sender IP is 198.252.106.58)
smtp.mailfrom=nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com; dkim=pass header.d=
nomekennelclub.com; x-hmca=pass header.id=
nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
X-SID-PRA: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
X-AUTH-Result: PASS
X-SID-Result: PASS
X-Message-Status: n:n
X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTA7YT0wO0Q9MztHRD0zO1NDTD00
X-Message-Info: JfKzZGNUCEyn6uZ8X2pDbY1Het57KTCuLVm3gAtPdrrl2td44M/
wLebIq7P6BcKz/Tq4wTZhsfxggLRurC3yAI0ChdmMAEfJOhmwoMRSeeGJKozFC4gVqbNvnZC/
JhgCd5qsAtqr0OEAYRu3koPQ9+cHL4uRNZS9J27uZshkoH4/
X3ayvdoeyUE3YWcyuTkswynceRDw4BygQavICoswKj/9XZAZvRBbI8WuiznTMQZuGiccxghTGg==
Received: from lax022.relay.arandomserver.com ([198.252.106.58]) by
COL004-MC1F11.hotmail.com <http://col004-mc1f11.hotmail.com/> over TLS
secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23143);
Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:15 -0700
Received: from lax203.hawkhost.com ([198.252.106.68])
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(envelope-from <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>)
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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;
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:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Owner;
bh=jDxrwQr0jmM9xViPdGyM4bH+/6rwqwLFUVYvxTlafm8=;
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id 1bCAc7-000pSR-SI; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:03 -0700
From: nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com
Subject: Nome-announce Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29
To: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
Reply-To: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:01 -0700
Message-ID: <
mailman.1.1465758001.197313.nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com at nomekennelclub.com
>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20
Precedence: list
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<mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=unsubscribe>
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List-Subscribe: <
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>,
<mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
Sender: "Nome-announce" <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
<snip>
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam at se001.arandomserver.com
X-Originating-IP: 198.252.106.68
X-SpamExperts-Domain: lax203.hawkhost.com
X-SpamExperts-Username: relay
Authentication-Results: arandomserver.com; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=
relay at lax203.hawkhost.com
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Return-Path: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2016 19:00:15.0312 (UTC)
FILETIME=[A789A500:01D1C4DC]

Send Nome-announce mailing list submissions to
nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
nome-announce-owner at nomekennelclub.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Nome-announce digest..."

AOL:

Subject:
[NA] New/unused 2014 90hp Evinrude e-Rec for sale
From:
Roy Ashenfelter via Nome-announce <nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com>
Date:
6/13/2016 3:54 AM
To:

redacted at nomekennelclub.com
Return-Path:
<redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
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certificate requested) by mtaig-aae04.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with
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DKIM-Signature:
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New/unused 2014 90hp Evinrude e-Rec for sale
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redacted at nomekennelclub.com
List-Archive:
<http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/private/redacted_nomekennelclub.com/>
List-Post:
<mailto:redacted at nomekennelclub.com>
List-Help:
<mailto:redacted at nomekennelclub.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:
<http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/redacted_nomekennelclub.com>,
redacted at nomekennelclub.com
Reply-To:
Roy Ashenfelter <redacted at live.com>
Errors-To:
redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
Sender:
"redacted" <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
X-Filter-ID:
s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIUo7H43CA5wLlglsDJgGpzkP07IPXvGOlNKYXgFfqszuLtbF6g6PRijQ
ZLYUpfiJTofP944IrN6rQSJi6zdzkcrlG+cgB9mAODBSyFnquDJzODrXaaMaFc6t0SR5trB37FBM
OVmUSoLDjxX0TQJ9zrTmNs+oBl1zjqKPRO
<snip>
X-Report-Abuse-To:
spam at se001.arandomserver.com
X-Originating-IP:
198.252.106.68
X-SpamExperts-Domain:
lax203.hawkhost.com
X-SpamExperts-Username:
relay
Authentication-Results:
arandomserver.com; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=relay at lax203.hawkhost.com
X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class:
unsure
X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence:
Combined (0.56)
X-Recommended-Action:
accept
x-aol-global-disposition:
S
X-AOL-VSS-INFO:
5800.7501/110342
X-AOL-VSS-CODE:
clean
X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION:
mtaig-aae04.mx.aol.com ; domain : nomekennelclub.com DKIM : pass
Authentication-Results:
mx.aol.com; spf=pass (aol.com: the domain nomekennelclub.com reports
198.252.106.58 as a permitted sender.) smtp.mailfrom=nomekennelclub.com;
X-AOL-REROUTE:
YES
x-aol-sid:
3039ac1b015a5761913748c1
X-AOL-IP:
198.252.106.58
X-AOL-SPF:
domain : nomekennelclub.com SPF : pass


None from Yahoo they've blocked us entirely.

From james at dorydesign.com  Thu Jun 16 19:04:12 2016
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:04:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>

So, anyone recommend more list-serv friendly hosts?

/jim

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Jim Dory <james at dorydesign.com> wrote:

> We have a community list-serv for local trade and community announcements
> with a subscriber base of nearly 2200 people. Our police and city use it
> for public service announcements, people use it for selling/trading
> virtually anything (seal oil, outboards, guns, blue berries, you name it)
> and is by subscription only.
>
> If someone is not a member, they cannot post. When a member posts, it goes
> to all others subscribers.
>
> Any suggestions on how to answer this:
>
> Here is the threat (hopefully I've removed personal emails from it):
>
> Hello,
>
> These cross promotion posts from your mailing list will need to cease or
> we will not host you any further. We have mounting complaints from AOL,
> Yahoo and Hotmail with some of which are now blocking the server you're on
> specifically because of your mailings. This is not isolated to a single set
> of users complaining it's a large amount that is enough for these providers
> to take action. Here's an example of Hotmail complaining today:
>
> X-HmXmrOriginalRecipient: < <tylerwcase at hotmail.com>snip>
> X-Reporter-IP: 72.169.153.180
> X-Message-Guid: e33ffe03-30cf-11e6-80b9-00215ad73ee2
> x-store-info:qAUQJzZ73IJCLUJ+0n7ZQ5Y+hDtA5T0pTzngeWExSOA+js5BQ3esJZEb/
> hCqmGYMGDPlv0qhfifSNEBY0EeR7jdY3RHpNqJWr7fgFVdKgCT42ZLOh4B1Z
> k6HwMHyTEbaui0SFrS8NYUVpqQ8zI3RRBiLXYw949+B
> Authentication-Results: hotmail.com; spf=pass (sender IP is
> 198.252.106.58) smtp.mailfrom=nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com;
> dkim=pass header.d=nomekennelclub.com; x-hmca=pass header.id=
> nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> X-SID-PRA: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> X-AUTH-Result: PASS
> X-SID-Result: PASS
> X-Message-Status: n:n
> X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTA7YT0wO0Q9MztHRD0zO1NDTD00
> X-Message-Info: JfKzZGNUCEyn6uZ8X2pDbY1Het57KTCuLVm3gAtPdrrl2td44M/
> wLebIq7P6BcKz/Tq4wTZhsfxggLRurC3yAI0ChdmMAEfJOhmwoMRSeeGJKozFC4gVqbNvnZC/
> JhgCd5qsAtqr0OEAYRu3koPQ9+cHL4uRNZS9J27uZshkoH4/
> X3ayvdoeyUE3YWcyuTkswynceRDw4BygQavICoswKj/9XZAZvRBbI8WuiznTMQZuGiccxghTG
> g==
> Received: from lax022.relay.arandomserver.com ([198.252.106.58]) by
> COL004-MC1F11.hotmail.com <http://col004-mc1f11.hotmail.com/> over TLS
> secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23143);
> Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:15 -0700
> Received: from lax203.hawkhost.com ([198.252.106.68])
> by se003.arandomserver.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256)
> (Exim 4.85)
> (envelope-from <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>)
> id 1bCAcC-0005mK-IL; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:00:11 -0500
> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;
> d=nomekennelclub.com; s=default; h=Sender:List-Subscribe:List-
> Help:List-Post:
> List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:Content-Transfer-
> Encoding:Content-Type:
> MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Reply-To:To:Subject:From:Cc:Content-ID:
> Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-
> Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc
> :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Owner;
> bh=jDxrwQr0jmM9xViPdGyM4bH+/6rwqwLFUVYvxTlafm8=;
> b=u8TyeCVecKwnVNP0kCePP0Pnct
> XmAtx/ijufED+WEE6l444ssMce/LGKCBwpEcIN/3vBoK6dkCkh3JmivH0aA9HrZyrcelF
> o27GFKbV
> 1sZYQQDokwaGP4YHL4iEx0Si5AY8JCBkFgFh1BKIXUvlYq2M0CYpEO4nYcc5hUNIpArs=;
> Received: from [::1] (port=42021 helo=lax203.hawkhost.com)
> by lax203.hawkhost.com with esmtp (Exim 4.87)
> (envelope-from <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>)
> id 1bCAc7-000pSR-SI; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:03 -0700
> From: nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com
> Subject: Nome-announce Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29
> To: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> Reply-To: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:01 -0700
> Message-ID: <
> mailman.1.1465758001.197313.nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com at nomekennelclub.com
> >
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-BeenThere: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: <nome-announce.nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Unsubscribe: <
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/options/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com
> >,
> <mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/private/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com/
> >
> List-Post: <mailto:nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Help: <mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com
> >,
> <mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=subscribe>
> Errors-To: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> Sender: "Nome-announce" <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
> <snip>
> X-Report-Abuse-To: spam at se001.arandomserver.com
> X-Originating-IP: 198.252.106.68
> X-SpamExperts-Domain: lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Username: relay
> Authentication-Results: arandomserver.com; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=
> relay at lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: SB/global_tokens (0.000514464687739)
> X-Recommended-Action: accept
> Return-Path: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2016 19:00:15.0312 (UTC)
> FILETIME=[A789A500:01D1C4DC]
>
> Send Nome-announce mailing list submissions to
> nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nome-announce-owner at nomekennelclub.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Nome-announce digest..."
>
> AOL:
>
> Subject:
> [NA] New/unused 2014 90hp Evinrude e-Rec for sale
> From:
> Roy Ashenfelter via Nome-announce <nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com>
> Date:
> 6/13/2016 3:54 AM
> To:
>
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> Return-Path:
> <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
> Received:
> from lax022.relay.arandomserver.com (lax022.relay.arandomserver.com [198.252.106.58])
> (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client
> certificate requested) by mtaig-aae04.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with
> ESMTPS id BADDB700000AC; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:32:39 -0400 (EDT)
> Received:
> from lax203.hawkhost.com ([198.252.106.68]) by se003.arandomserver.com with
> esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from <
> redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>) id 1bCMi8-0000Z9-I7; Mon, 13 Jun
> 2016 02:55:07 -0500
> DKIM-Signature:
> v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nomekennelclub.com;
> s=default; h=Sender:Reply-To:From:List-Subscribe:
> List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:Subject:
> MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:
> Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Owner;
> bh=ettEdnqvdTG8oky64nANVwAzq3F3zbAJua/5UgxiRqo=;
> b=Hic9rSbFnmuVJ1wEm8AjOnKfe7 tICDN+l7MmUPhfoxdTw1pJ6sFa/
> iaaCbkoLY9RfRX6VuysFdQAkknS1YfYaBeJ8sx+Qzu+94n0za7
> c11eRkTNmKrgOGhhWwOJ2DfI3Xy6WsVlzXxTHGdq+zGJaBhhwwdGxCF4l/toN6Grn5es=;
> Received:
> from [::1] (port=53981 helo=lax203.hawkhost.com) by lax203.hawkhost.com with
> esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>)
> id 1bCMi5-001XvS-1Z; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:55:01 -0700
> Received:
> from se003.arandomserver.com ([198.252.106.34]:33778) by
> lax203.hawkhost.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256)
> (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <redacted at live.com>) id 1bCMi2-001Xug-Jh for
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:54:58 -0700
> Received:
> from col004-omc2s12.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.86]) by se003.arandomserver.com with
> esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from <
> redacted at live.com>) id 1bCMi1-0000V0-QL for redacted at nomekennelclub.com;
> Mon, 13 Jun 2016 02:54:58 -0500
> Received:
> from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com
> <http://nam01-bn3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com/> ([65.55.34.72])
> by COL004-OMC2S12.hotmail.com <http://col004-omc2s12.hotmail.com/> over
> TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 13 Jun
> 2016 00:54:56 -0700
> Received:
> from BN3NAM01FT034.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com
> <http://bn3nam01ft034.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com/> (10.152.66.52)
> by BN3NAM01HT185.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com
> <http://bn3nam01ht185.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com/>(10.152.66.83)
> with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.511.7; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:54:55
> +0000
> Received:
> from CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/> (10.152.66.55) by
> BN3NAM01FT034.mail.protection.outlook.com
> <http://bn3nam01ft034.mail.protection.outlook.com/> (10.152.67.188) with
> Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.511.7 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 13
> Jun 2016 07:54:55 +0000
> Received:
> from CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/> ([10.163.255.11]) by
> CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/> ([10.163.255.11]) with
> mapi id 15.01.0517.009; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:54:54 +0000
> Thread-Topic:
> New/unused 2014 90hp Evinrude e-Rec for sale
> Thread-Index:
> AQHRxUjfIh70xOv6O0adnfRIVohryw==
> Message-ID:
> <
> CY1PR18MB0425675A26479DBDF071EF5FBD530 at CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> >
> Accept-Language:
> en-US
> Content-Language:
> en-US
> X-MS-Has-Attach:
> yes
> authentication-results:
> spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.66.55) smtp.mailfrom=live.com;
> nomekennelclub.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;
> nomekennelclub.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=live.com;
> received-spf:
> SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning live.com discourages
> use of 25.152.66.55 as permitted sender)
> x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype:
> 1
> x-tmn:
> [5FEgAoGqeTutVftgmNWn0YhnbzyW9Wzc]
> x-eopattributedmessage:
> 0
> x-forefront-antispam-report:
> CIP:25.152.66.55; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM;
> SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185; H:
> CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/>; FPR:; SPF:None;
> LANG:en;
> x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id:
> b29fd25c-3c17-4205-eaf6-08d3936001ee
> x-microsoft-antispam:
> UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(1601124038)(5061506196)(5061507196)(1603103041)(1601125047);
> SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185;
> x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test:
> BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(102415321)(82015046);
> SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185;
> x-forefront-prvs:
> 0972DEC1D9
> Content-Type:
> multipart/mixed; boundary="_003_CY1PR18MB0425675A26479DBDF071E
> F5FBD530CY1PR18MB0425namp_"
> MIME-Version:
> 1.0
> X-OriginatorOrg:
> live.com
> X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime:
> 13 Jun 2016 07:54:54.6739 (UTC)
> X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader:
> Internet
> X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id:
> 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa
> X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped:
> BN3NAM01HT185
> X-OriginalArrivalTime:
> 13 Jun 2016 07:54:56.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0C13290:01D1C548]
> Received-SPF:
> pass (se003.arandomserver.com: domain of live.com designates 65.55.34.86
> as permitted sender) client-ip=65.55.34.86; redacted at live.com
> X-SPF-Result:
> se003.arandomserver.com: domain of live.com designates 65.55.34.86 as
> permitted sender
> X-Whitelisted:
> recipient
> X-DKIM-Status:
> none / / live.com / / /
> X-Filter-ID:
> s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIUO9O0hq8gHByQcbEQYDfz8H4MYKpNk60PeoaRcwbjEjtCsRs7oA6pFb
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> /CZ2mGeFjdXiJfCOUvyWH7/HBULF99YE
> X-Report-Abuse-To:
> spam at se001.arandomserver.com
> X-SpamExperts-Class:
> whitelisted
> X-SpamExperts-Evidence:
> recipient
> X-Recommended-Action:
> accept
> X-BeenThere:
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> X-Mailman-Version:
> 2.1.20
> Precedence:
> list
> List-Id:
> <redacted.nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Unsubscribe:
> <http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/options/redacted_nomekennelclub.com>,
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> List-Archive:
> <http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/private/redacted_nomekennelclub.com/>
> List-Post:
> <mailto:redacted at nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Help:
> <mailto:redacted at nomekennelclub.com?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe:
> <http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/redacted_nomekennelclub.com>,
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> Reply-To:
> Roy Ashenfelter <redacted at live.com>
> Errors-To:
> redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> Sender:
> "redacted" <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
> X-Filter-ID:
> s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIUo7H43CA5wLlglsDJgGpzkP07IPXvGOlNKYXgFfqszuLtbF6g6PRijQ
> ZLYUpfiJTofP944IrN6rQSJi6zdzkcrlG+cgB9mAODBSyFnquDJzODrXaaMaFc6t0SR5trB37FBM
> OVmUSoLDjxX0TQJ9zrTmNs+oBl1zjqKPRO
> <snip>
> X-Report-Abuse-To:
> spam at se001.arandomserver.com
> X-Originating-IP:
> 198.252.106.68
> X-SpamExperts-Domain:
> lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Username:
> relay
> Authentication-Results:
> arandomserver.com; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=relay at lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class:
> unsure
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence:
> Combined (0.56)
> X-Recommended-Action:
> accept
> x-aol-global-disposition:
> S
> X-AOL-VSS-INFO:
> 5800.7501/110342
> X-AOL-VSS-CODE:
> clean
> X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION:
> mtaig-aae04.mx.aol.com ; domain : nomekennelclub.com DKIM : pass
> Authentication-Results:
> mx.aol.com; spf=pass (aol.com: the domain nomekennelclub.com reports
> 198.252.106.58 as a permitted sender.) smtp.mailfrom=nomekennelclub.com;
> X-AOL-REROUTE:
> YES
> x-aol-sid:
> 3039ac1b015a5761913748c1
> X-AOL-IP:
> 198.252.106.58
> X-AOL-SPF:
> domain : nomekennelclub.com SPF : pass
>
>
> None from Yahoo they've blocked us entirely.
>
>

From jim at ohlste.in  Fri Jun 17 12:42:12 2016
From: jim at ohlste.in (Jim Ohlstein)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:42:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FB0526D-3C2E-4995-8E31-AE38732759AE@ohlste.in>

Hello Jim,

I'm not sure what they mean by cross promotion, but you may want to separate your list into a public service announcement list and one for sales/trades/etc. 

I can help you find alternate hosting if you like. Feel free to contact me off list. 

Jim Ohlstein

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 5:39 PM, Jim Dory <james at dorydesign.com> wrote:
> 
> We have a community list-serv for local trade and community announcements
> with a subscriber base of nearly 2200 people. Our police and city use it
> for public service announcements, people use it for selling/trading
> virtually anything (seal oil, outboards, guns, blue berries, you name it)
> and is by subscription only.
> 
> If someone is not a member, they cannot post. When a member posts, it goes
> to all others subscribers.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to answer this:
> 
> Here is the threat (hopefully I've removed personal emails from it):
> 
> Hello,
> 
> These cross promotion posts from your mailing list will need to cease or we
> will not host you any further. We have mounting complaints from AOL, Yahoo
> and Hotmail with some of which are now blocking the server you're on
> specifically because of your mailings. This is not isolated to a single set
> of users complaining it's a large amount that is enough for these providers
> to take action. Here's an example of Hotmail complaining today:
> 
> X-HmXmrOriginalRecipient: < <tylerwcase at hotmail.com>snip>
> X-Reporter-IP: 72.169.153.180
> X-Message-Guid: e33ffe03-30cf-11e6-80b9-00215ad73ee2
> x-store-info:qAUQJzZ73IJCLUJ+0n7ZQ5Y+hDtA5T0pTzngeWExSOA+js5BQ3esJZEb/
> hCqmGYMGDPlv0qhfifSNEBY0EeR7jdY3RHpNqJWr7fgFVdKgCT42ZLOh4B1Z
> k6HwMHyTEbaui0SFrS8NYUVpqQ8zI3RRBiLXYw949+B
> Authentication-Results: hotmail.com; spf=pass (sender IP is 198.252.106.58)
> smtp.mailfrom=nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com; dkim=pass header.d=
> nomekennelclub.com; x-hmca=pass header.id=
> nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> X-SID-PRA: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> X-AUTH-Result: PASS
> X-SID-Result: PASS
> X-Message-Status: n:n
> X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTA7YT0wO0Q9MztHRD0zO1NDTD00
> X-Message-Info: JfKzZGNUCEyn6uZ8X2pDbY1Het57KTCuLVm3gAtPdrrl2td44M/
> wLebIq7P6BcKz/Tq4wTZhsfxggLRurC3yAI0ChdmMAEfJOhmwoMRSeeGJKozFC4gVqbNvnZC/
> JhgCd5qsAtqr0OEAYRu3koPQ9+cHL4uRNZS9J27uZshkoH4/
> X3ayvdoeyUE3YWcyuTkswynceRDw4BygQavICoswKj/9XZAZvRBbI8WuiznTMQZuGiccxghTGg==
> Received: from lax022.relay.arandomserver.com ([198.252.106.58]) by
> COL004-MC1F11.hotmail.com <http://col004-mc1f11.hotmail.com/> over TLS
> secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23143);
> Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:15 -0700
> Received: from lax203.hawkhost.com ([198.252.106.68])
> by se003.arandomserver.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256)
> (Exim 4.85)
> (envelope-from <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>)
> id 1bCAcC-0005mK-IL; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:00:11 -0500
> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;
> d=nomekennelclub.com; s=default; h=Sender:List-Subscribe:List-
> Help:List-Post:
> List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:Content-Transfer-
> Encoding:Content-Type:
> MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Reply-To:To:Subject:From:Cc:Content-ID:
> Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-
> Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc
> :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Owner;
> bh=jDxrwQr0jmM9xViPdGyM4bH+/6rwqwLFUVYvxTlafm8=;
> b=u8TyeCVecKwnVNP0kCePP0Pnct
> XmAtx/ijufED+WEE6l444ssMce/LGKCBwpEcIN/3vBoK6dkCkh3JmivH0aA9HrZyrcelF
> o27GFKbV
> 1sZYQQDokwaGP4YHL4iEx0Si5AY8JCBkFgFh1BKIXUvlYq2M0CYpEO4nYcc5hUNIpArs=;
> Received: from [::1] (port=42021 helo=lax203.hawkhost.com)
> by lax203.hawkhost.com with esmtp (Exim 4.87)
> (envelope-from <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>)
> id 1bCAc7-000pSR-SI; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:03 -0700
> From: nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com
> Subject: Nome-announce Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29
> To: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> Reply-To: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:00:01 -0700
> Message-ID: <
> mailman.1.1465758001.197313.nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com at nomekennelclub.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-BeenThere: nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: <nome-announce.nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Unsubscribe: <
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/options/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com>,
> <mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/private/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com/>
> List-Post: <mailto:nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Help: <mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com
>> ,
> <mailto:nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com?subject=subscribe>
> Errors-To: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> Sender: "Nome-announce" <nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
> <snip>
> X-Report-Abuse-To: spam at se001.arandomserver.com
> X-Originating-IP: 198.252.106.68
> X-SpamExperts-Domain: lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Username: relay
> Authentication-Results: arandomserver.com; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=
> relay at lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: SB/global_tokens (0.000514464687739)
> X-Recommended-Action: accept
> Return-Path: nome-announce-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2016 19:00:15.0312 (UTC)
> FILETIME=[A789A500:01D1C4DC]
> 
> Send Nome-announce mailing list submissions to
> nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/nome-announce_nomekennelclub.com
> 
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nome-announce-request at nomekennelclub.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nome-announce-owner at nomekennelclub.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Nome-announce digest..."
> 
> AOL:
> 
> Subject:
> [NA] New/unused 2014 90hp Evinrude e-Rec for sale
> From:
> Roy Ashenfelter via Nome-announce <nome-announce at nomekennelclub.com>
> Date:
> 6/13/2016 3:54 AM
> To:
> 
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> Return-Path:
> <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
> Received:
> from lax022.relay.arandomserver.com (lax022.relay.arandomserver.com
> [198.252.106.58])
> (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client
> certificate requested) by mtaig-aae04.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with
> ESMTPS id BADDB700000AC; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:32:39 -0400 (EDT)
> Received:
> from lax203.hawkhost.com ([198.252.106.68]) by se003.arandomserver.com with
> esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from <
> redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>) id 1bCMi8-0000Z9-I7; Mon, 13 Jun 2016
> 02:55:07 -0500
> DKIM-Signature:
> v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nomekennelclub.com;
> s=default; h=Sender:Reply-To:From:List-Subscribe: List-Help:List-Post:List-
> Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:Subject: MIME-Version:Content-Type:
> Message-ID:Date:To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-
> Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:
> Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Owner; bh=
> ettEdnqvdTG8oky64nANVwAzq3F3zbAJua/5UgxiRqo=; b=Hic9rSbFnmuVJ1wEm8AjOnKfe7
> tICDN+l7MmUPhfoxdTw1pJ6sFa/iaaCbkoLY9RfRX6VuysFdQAkknS1YfYaBeJ8sx+Qzu+94n0za7
> c11eRkTNmKrgOGhhWwOJ2DfI3Xy6WsVlzXxTHGdq+zGJaBhhwwdGxCF4l/toN6Grn5es=;
> Received:
> from [::1] (port=53981 helo=lax203.hawkhost.com) by lax203.hawkhost.com with
> esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>) id
> 1bCMi5-001XvS-1Z; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:55:01 -0700
> Received:
> from se003.arandomserver.com ([198.252.106.34]:33778) by
> lax203.hawkhost.com with
> esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from
> <redacted at live.com>) id 1bCMi2-001Xug-Jh for redacted at nomekennelclub.com;
> Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:54:58 -0700
> Received:
> from col004-omc2s12.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.86]) by se003.arandomserver.com with
> esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from <
> redacted at live.com>) id 1bCMi1-0000V0-QL for redacted at nomekennelclub.com;
> Mon, 13 Jun 2016 02:54:58 -0500
> Received:
> from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com
> <http://nam01-bn3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com/> ([65.55.34.72]) by
> COL004-OMC2S12.hotmail.com <http://col004-omc2s12.hotmail.com/> over TLS
> secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 13 Jun 2016
> 00:54:56 -0700
> Received:
> from BN3NAM01FT034.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com
> <http://bn3nam01ft034.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com/> (10.152.66.52)
> by BN3NAM01HT185.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com
> <http://bn3nam01ht185.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com/>(10.152.66.83)
> with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.511.7; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:54:55
> +0000
> Received:
> from CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/> (10.152.66.55) by
> BN3NAM01FT034.mail.protection.outlook.com
> <http://bn3nam01ft034.mail.protection.outlook.com/> (10.152.67.188) with
> Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.511.7 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 13
> Jun 2016 07:54:55 +0000
> Received:
> from CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/> ([10.163.255.11]) by
> CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/> ([10.163.255.11]) with
> mapi id 15.01.0517.009; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:54:54 +0000
> Thread-Topic:
> New/unused 2014 90hp Evinrude e-Rec for sale
> Thread-Index:
> AQHRxUjfIh70xOv6O0adnfRIVohryw==
> Message-ID:
> <
> CY1PR18MB0425675A26479DBDF071EF5FBD530 at CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> Accept-Language:
> en-US
> Content-Language:
> en-US
> X-MS-Has-Attach:
> yes
> authentication-results:
> spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.66.55) smtp.mailfrom=live.com;
> nomekennelclub.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;
> nomekennelclub.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=live.com;
> received-spf:
> SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning live.com discourages
> use of 25.152.66.55 as permitted sender)
> x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype:
> 1
> x-tmn:
> [5FEgAoGqeTutVftgmNWn0YhnbzyW9Wzc]
> x-eopattributedmessage:
> 0
> x-forefront-antispam-report:
> CIP:25.152.66.55; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM;
> SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185; H:
> CY1PR18MB0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> <http://cy1pr18mb0425.namprd18.prod.outlook.com/>; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en;
> x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id:
> b29fd25c-3c17-4205-eaf6-08d3936001ee
> x-microsoft-antispam:
> UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0;
> RULEID:(1601124038)(5061506196)(5061507196)(1603103041)(1601125047);
> SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185;
> x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test:
> BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(102415321)(82015046); SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185;
> BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN3NAM01HT185;
> x-forefront-prvs:
> 0972DEC1D9
> Content-Type:
> multipart/mixed; boundary="_003_CY1PR18MB0425675A26479DBDF071E
> F5FBD530CY1PR18MB0425namp_"
> MIME-Version:
> 1.0
> X-OriginatorOrg:
> live.com
> X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime:
> 13 Jun 2016 07:54:54.6739 (UTC)
> X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader:
> Internet
> X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id:
> 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa
> X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped:
> BN3NAM01HT185
> X-OriginalArrivalTime:
> 13 Jun 2016 07:54:56.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0C13290:01D1C548]
> Received-SPF:
> pass (se003.arandomserver.com: domain of live.com designates 65.55.34.86 as
> permitted sender) client-ip=65.55.34.86; redacted at live.com
> X-SPF-Result:
> se003.arandomserver.com: domain of live.com designates 65.55.34.86 as
> permitted sender
> X-Whitelisted:
> recipient
> X-DKIM-Status:
> none / / live.com / / /
> X-Filter-ID:
> s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIUO9O0hq8gHByQcbEQYDfz8H4MYKpNk60PeoaRcwbjEjtCsRs7oA6pFb
> yJ/hU5wPEF2hX8tU8cKPSSrIVjAPEm2fvR1VsX14yI7g13GRr6oS0z6bhalFEM/pjPCQA+BAlsco
> s3Vc2QeJLRtPHzgNOTaqQRaVZHlYSRfYtIUJYPFolno1fCci4TX9vJFS9DZnGcUlTYKiCqrzBCim
> L8vArOL7YFTkK/rKJqMJjQzgnEai50DUVJ/AT8M7WktHsmaM2VyA2JiDuTGgcr89RmPEWZwREdgG
> 2f2Lo1NTxLTTXdsKPd0rEuGjFyZoidhtHm+WoSitAH2lQcnqPHV5XVrozsCNccwp+cA14F0ArmbJ
> KkZ/647lNwN4qOsSZg+fYhVZG34tGEMTMUrpJnq9b48rn8D2CgiB9STrurjoEfMSa0W6RLf6trUD
> TDf2G+yXm5Pa7szzR8BQQCGvZ2XoQqVvUzhmqjXjFdeMc1v0VDb9tVkfp5gtNQmDuN0F9zdGKZpQ
> CWlVqy5IjDukk0PV7kz7Xgfy4DHVHN49VHM7as5+LMjNQJtI1O2CdZ6bnYVutIcmjhTeL3uUOsw5
> /CZ2mGeFjdXiJfCOUvyWH7/HBULF99YE
> X-Report-Abuse-To:
> spam at se001.arandomserver.com
> X-SpamExperts-Class:
> whitelisted
> X-SpamExperts-Evidence:
> recipient
> X-Recommended-Action:
> accept
> X-BeenThere:
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> X-Mailman-Version:
> 2.1.20
> Precedence:
> list
> List-Id:
> <redacted.nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Unsubscribe:
> <http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/options/redacted_nomekennelclub.com>,
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> List-Archive:
> <http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/private/redacted_nomekennelclub.com/>
> List-Post:
> <mailto:redacted at nomekennelclub.com>
> List-Help:
> <mailto:redacted at nomekennelclub.com?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe:
> <http://nomekennelclub.com/mailman/listinfo/redacted_nomekennelclub.com>,
> redacted at nomekennelclub.com
> Reply-To:
> Roy Ashenfelter <redacted at live.com>
> Errors-To:
> redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com
> Sender:
> "redacted" <redacted-bounces at nomekennelclub.com>
> X-Filter-ID:
> s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIUo7H43CA5wLlglsDJgGpzkP07IPXvGOlNKYXgFfqszuLtbF6g6PRijQ
> ZLYUpfiJTofP944IrN6rQSJi6zdzkcrlG+cgB9mAODBSyFnquDJzODrXaaMaFc6t0SR5trB37FBM
> OVmUSoLDjxX0TQJ9zrTmNs+oBl1zjqKPRO
> <snip>
> X-Report-Abuse-To:
> spam at se001.arandomserver.com
> X-Originating-IP:
> 198.252.106.68
> X-SpamExperts-Domain:
> lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Username:
> relay
> Authentication-Results:
> arandomserver.com; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=relay at lax203.hawkhost.com
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class:
> unsure
> X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence:
> Combined (0.56)
> X-Recommended-Action:
> accept
> x-aol-global-disposition:
> S
> X-AOL-VSS-INFO:
> 5800.7501/110342
> X-AOL-VSS-CODE:
> clean
> X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION:
> mtaig-aae04.mx.aol.com ; domain : nomekennelclub.com DKIM : pass
> Authentication-Results:
> mx.aol.com; spf=pass (aol.com: the domain nomekennelclub.com reports
> 198.252.106.58 as a permitted sender.) smtp.mailfrom=nomekennelclub.com;
> X-AOL-REROUTE:
> YES
> x-aol-sid:
> 3039ac1b015a5761913748c1
> X-AOL-IP:
> 198.252.106.58
> X-AOL-SPF:
> domain : nomekennelclub.com SPF : pass
> 
> 
> None from Yahoo they've blocked us entirely.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jim%40ohlste.in

From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Fri Jun 17 13:06:38 2016
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:06:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam, abuse
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1799.1466180513.2287.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.1799.1466180513.2287.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <10043790-80d2-4c50-8fac-ad2407b977d1@rx7-world.net>

On 6/17/16 9:21 AM, Jim Dory wrote:
> We have mounting complaints from AOL,
>> Yahoo and Hotmail

I think that says it all...  I have regular issues with the free email services,
requiring email exchanges with their IT groups. Every time they tighten the
SPAM/UCE rules, all hell breaks loose.  :-/   At one time I was even considering
just dropping all free email service subscribers.

I've run my mailman lists for over 6 years now on my own VMs hosted by LINODE.
Makes me responsible for my own IPs & their reputation...  I used to use Go
Daddy VMs, but they used a common out going email server pool, more like a
cesspool. Had lots of problems because Go Daddy IP blocks were always on
somebodies block list. :-(

John

From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Fri Jun 17 13:16:28 2016
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 17:16:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Defending against DDOS style scanning
Message-ID: <1466183826712.1832@cmu.edu>

Hi Folks,


We had a group of machines hit our mailman server hard last night -- trying all the advertised lists and their corresponding URLS.  After shutting down and restarting the webserver, the attempts stopped.


What (if anything) are folks doing to protect against such events?


Thanks!


Gretchen Beck

Carnegie Mellon

From james at dorydesign.com  Fri Jun 17 13:27:07 2016
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:27:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam, abuse
In-Reply-To: <10043790-80d2-4c50-8fac-ad2407b977d1@rx7-world.net>
References: <mailman.1799.1466180513.2287.mailman-users@python.org>
 <10043790-80d2-4c50-8fac-ad2407b977d1@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy2yLXHPNE0rqSj7S4rQKvFiP1HrK1wHEriM6nf4HQK3Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for replies!

I've discovered the Mailman document dealing with this issue:
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/All%20messages%20from%20my%20list%20are%20being%20rejected%20by%20AOL%20%28or%20hotmail%2C%20or%20Yahoo%21%20or%20Google%20Gmail-googlemail%2C%20etc...%29%20as%20spam%2C
and apologies for not finding it before posting.

So I've tried creating feedback loops as per the instructions there with
Yahoo, AOL (who uses them anymore?) and Microsoft. Microsoft requires
confirmation from the host so I haven't been able to get them onboard yet.
But I've taken these steps and outlined them to the host, but I haven't
heard back. I also tried whitelisting with Yahoo but they too want the
owner of the IP address (the host) to apply - and I don't think I can get
Hawkhost to do that. At least they haven't responded yet about it. If I
were them I would probably be reluctant as well, not knowing about our
list-serv.

With the feedback loops I hope I can identify the offenders (those on our
list that are marking messages as spam) and work with them to either get
them to unsubscribe or educate them on how to manage the messages. (there
can be 20-30 messages a day on a busy day.)

thanks, Jim

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 9:06 AM, John <mailman-owner at rx7-world.net> wrote:

> On 6/17/16 9:21 AM, Jim Dory wrote:
> > We have mounting complaints from AOL,
> >> Yahoo and Hotmail
>
> I think that says it all...  I have regular issues with the free email
> services,
> requiring email exchanges with their IT groups. Every time they tighten the
> SPAM/UCE rules, all hell breaks loose.  :-/   At one time I was even
> considering
> just dropping all free email service subscribers.
>
> I've run my mailman lists for over 6 years now on my own VMs hosted by
> LINODE.
> Makes me responsible for my own IPs & their reputation...  I used to use Go
> Daddy VMs, but they used a common out going email server pool, more like a
> cesspool. Had lots of problems because Go Daddy IP blocks were always on
> somebodies block list. :-(
>
> John
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%40dorydesign.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 17 13:27:29 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:27:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57643301.7090407@msapiro.net>

On 06/16/2016 04:04 PM, Jim Dory wrote:
> So, anyone recommend more list-serv friendly hosts?


If you're looking for listserv(r), you're in the wrong place. See
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>.

To address your actual issue, the problem is your list members are
reporting list mail to their ISPs as spam. You MAY be able to address
this by education. You need to ensure that no one is added to the list
without opt-in and you need to remind members that if they don't want
list mail, their recourse should be to unsubscribe, and that reporting
some mail as spam will not result in selective filtering of some mail or
action against the posters of mail they don't like, it will onlt result
in all list mail being blocked for everyone.

You may be able to negotiate with your host over measures you can take,
but the main thing is to train users not to click the 'spam' button and
to give them easy ways to unsubscribe and to complain to you.

If you convince your host you are trying, they may understand, but they
are stuck - your user's spam reports are giving your server's IP a bad
reputation and causing all your mail and, if it's a shared host, other
customer's mail too to be blocked by various ISPs. The host has to
convince those ISPs that they are doing something about this.

In the long run, just switching hosts will not solve this problem if you
can't convince your users not to report mail from a list they signed up
for as spam.

You might try adding a msg_header and digest_header[1] with a "you are
receiving this mail because you subscribed to ... To unsubscribe, ...
Please don't report this as spam ..." type of message.

[1] Depending on your list's content filtering, and your user's MUAs,
*_header may be problematic and editing *_footer may be better. See
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030707>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From rsk at gsp.org  Fri Jun 17 13:02:05 2016
From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:02:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160617170205.GA16494@gsp.org>


I'll second the suggestion that you split the list.  I'll also suggest
that you do *not* subscribe anyone to the split-off instance: you should
make them go through a COI (confirmed opt-in) process AND you should
make certain that you retain all records of that as long as the list
exists. ("records" being the Mailman logs and copies of any correspondence.)


But let me make a general comment about this problem -- which stems
from companies like AOL and Yahoo delegating control of part of the
anti-spam process to their users.

That's incredibly stupid.  It's off-the-scale idiotic.  It flies in
the face of everything we've learned about spam in the past several decades.

Consider: if users, en masse, could reliably distinguish spam from
non-spam, would the spam problem be as bad as it is?

No.  It would not.  It would only be a tiny fraction of its current scale.

But users have spent the past several decade proving, beyond any
possible argument, that they are absolutely horrible at this task.
So delegating it to them is not only lazy, it's insane.

To be clear: yes, users should be able to *report* suspected spam.
That's why everyone should have an abuse@ address per RFC 2142
and decades of best practices.   A user who's capable of remembering
that, and who's capable of forwarding spam to it with full headers,
is a user at least worth paying attention to.  (And of course the
local admin/postmaster/abuse/whatever team should read and analyze
every such message: that's mail system admin 101.)  But a user who
blindly hits the spam button for any message they don't like or
don't find useful or don't agree with or anything else is worse
than useless: they're actively degrading the process.

Dave Crocker put it quite well when he said:

	The best model to invoke, with respect to the idea of recruiting
	end users to be active participants in abuse detection or
	prevention is mostly:

	Don't.

Unfortunately, the AOLs and Yahoos of the world are deaf to this.

And as a result of that, I have no doubt whatsoever that many of your
non-spam messages are being flagged as spam by users at those operations
(and elsewhere) despite the fact that they're on-topic for a mailing list
that they signed up for.

I've found it necessary to use VERP and similar techniques to identify
the specific individuals responsible for this abuse and to either
(a) unsubscribe them and/or (b) ban them.  This isn't a panacea, but
it does help cut down on the complaint rate and thus the spurious
blacklisting.

---rsk

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Fri Jun 17 13:36:30 2016
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bcfeb9a5-7873-2f11-fbee-c654283b8e25@Damon-Family.org>

On 6/16/16 7:04 PM, Jim Dory wrote:
> So, anyone recommend more list-serv friendly hosts?
>
> /jim
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Jim Dory <james at dorydesign.com> wrote:
>
>> We have a community list-serv for local trade and community announcements
>> with a subscriber base of nearly 2200 people. Our police and city use it
>> for public service announcements, people use it for selling/trading
>> virtually anything (seal oil, outboards, guns, blue berries, you name it)
>> and is by subscription only.
>>
>> If someone is not a member, they cannot post. When a member posts, it goes
>> to all others subscribers.
>>
>> Any suggestions on how to answer this:
>>
>>
I run a community mailing list of 6400 subscribers on Pair, and do not 
have this issue. I do have a number of filters setup to catch most of 
the spam that tries to get to the list. I have also used ezoshosting for 
some smaller lists.

Is your current hosting provider directly supporting mailman, or is it 
just that they let your run it? A hosting service that doesn't 
specifically understand mailing list is much more likely to get you in 
trouble.

Also, how responsive are you to subscribers asking for help 
unsubscribing? If your list is anything like mine, a number of 
subscribers get help from a friend to get on the list, and then when 
they want off, they don't know what to do. If they don't know you will 
be helpful in getting them off the list, some will "unsubscribe" by 
marking the list as spam and thus they don't see the messages, and you 
will get into this sort of trouble.


-- 
Richard Damon


From james at dorydesign.com  Fri Jun 17 13:40:18 2016
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:40:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <57643301.7090407@msapiro.net>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <57643301.7090407@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy0t1xtcwgPSN-WsTuXCZEhx-D8mcf9Fyn3p0eiywQja6Q@mail.gmail.com>

I was using the term List-serv as a generic term meaning a mailing list
people subscribe to in order to receive messages sent by members via email.
I am not aware, nor care to be aware, of technical definitions between
Mailman and Listserv. I am a volunteer so those concerns are above my pay
grade. BUT - I won't use the term "listserv" here again.

Thanks for your suggestions. I am taking all those steps - though I haven't
added the header yet. I have sent several messages to users trying to
educate them (and copied to the host's trouble ticket). The host gave me an
example of a complaint received, so I tried contacting the subscriber to
see if he was satisfied or not with the service and whether or not he
wanted unsubscribed. I also asked if he would tell me how he was using his
email client in regards our messages. No response. I did unsubscribe him,
telling him he was welcome to resubscribe if it were in error.

I've started the feedback loops with AOL and Yahoo. Microsoft is
problematic.

The footer of each message/digest gives clear instructions for
unsubscribing.

thanks again, Jim

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 06/16/2016 04:04 PM, Jim Dory wrote:
> > So, anyone recommend more list-serv friendly hosts?
>
>
> If you're looking for listserv(r), you're in the wrong place. See
> <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>.
>
> To address your actual issue, the problem is your list members are
> reporting list mail to their ISPs as spam. You MAY be able to address
> this by education. You need to ensure that no one is added to the list
> without opt-in and you need to remind members that if they don't want
> list mail, their recourse should be to unsubscribe, and that reporting
> some mail as spam will not result in selective filtering of some mail or
> action against the posters of mail they don't like, it will onlt result
> in all list mail being blocked for everyone.
>
> You may be able to negotiate with your host over measures you can take,
> but the main thing is to train users not to click the 'spam' button and
> to give them easy ways to unsubscribe and to complain to you.
>
> If you convince your host you are trying, they may understand, but they
> are stuck - your user's spam reports are giving your server's IP a bad
> reputation and causing all your mail and, if it's a shared host, other
> customer's mail too to be blocked by various ISPs. The host has to
> convince those ISPs that they are doing something about this.
>
> In the long run, just switching hosts will not solve this problem if you
> can't convince your users not to report mail from a list they signed up
> for as spam.
>
> You might try adding a msg_header and digest_header[1] with a "you are
> receiving this mail because you subscribed to ... To unsubscribe, ...
> Please don't report this as spam ..." type of message.
>
> [1] Depending on your list's content filtering, and your user's MUAs,
> *_header may be problematic and editing *_footer may be better. See
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030707>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%40dorydesign.com
>

From james at dorydesign.com  Fri Jun 17 13:44:40 2016
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:44:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <20160617170205.GA16494@gsp.org>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160617170205.GA16494@gsp.org>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy1CRh4nqqFhM8Y9QgQB7C4GzJk+r4kyisejwqfTuL0vGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Rich,

I do not subscribe anyone without making them first go through the
subscribe process. The problem we're having lately is the ISP's are not
passing on the confirmation email, so in a couple cases lately, after
confirming the user tried the process (by their word is all I got) I do
subscribe them.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the logs nor VERP settings.

thx, Jim

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk at gsp.org> wrote:

>
> I'll second the suggestion that you split the list.  I'll also suggest
> that you do *not* subscribe anyone to the split-off instance: you should
> make them go through a COI (confirmed opt-in) process AND you should
> make certain that you retain all records of that as long as the list
> exists. ("records" being the Mailman logs and copies of any
> correspondence.)
>
>
> But let me make a general comment about this problem -- which stems
> from companies like AOL and Yahoo delegating control of part of the
> anti-spam process to their users.
>
> That's incredibly stupid.  It's off-the-scale idiotic.  It flies in
> the face of everything we've learned about spam in the past several
> decades.
>
> Consider: if users, en masse, could reliably distinguish spam from
> non-spam, would the spam problem be as bad as it is?
>
> No.  It would not.  It would only be a tiny fraction of its current scale.
>
> But users have spent the past several decade proving, beyond any
> possible argument, that they are absolutely horrible at this task.
> So delegating it to them is not only lazy, it's insane.
>
> To be clear: yes, users should be able to *report* suspected spam.
> That's why everyone should have an abuse@ address per RFC 2142
> and decades of best practices.   A user who's capable of remembering
> that, and who's capable of forwarding spam to it with full headers,
> is a user at least worth paying attention to.  (And of course the
> local admin/postmaster/abuse/whatever team should read and analyze
> every such message: that's mail system admin 101.)  But a user who
> blindly hits the spam button for any message they don't like or
> don't find useful or don't agree with or anything else is worse
> than useless: they're actively degrading the process.
>
> Dave Crocker put it quite well when he said:
>
>         The best model to invoke, with respect to the idea of recruiting
>         end users to be active participants in abuse detection or
>         prevention is mostly:
>
>         Don't.
>
> Unfortunately, the AOLs and Yahoos of the world are deaf to this.
>
> And as a result of that, I have no doubt whatsoever that many of your
> non-spam messages are being flagged as spam by users at those operations
> (and elsewhere) despite the fact that they're on-topic for a mailing list
> that they signed up for.
>
> I've found it necessary to use VERP and similar techniques to identify
> the specific individuals responsible for this abuse and to either
> (a) unsubscribe them and/or (b) ban them.  This isn't a panacea, but
> it does help cut down on the complaint rate and thus the spurious
> blacklisting.
>
> ---rsk
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%40dorydesign.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 17 14:34:35 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:34:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is not Listserv - was: Our list serv
 host is threatening to shut us down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy0t1xtcwgPSN-WsTuXCZEhx-D8mcf9Fyn3p0eiywQja6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <57643301.7090407@msapiro.net>
 <CAKhfoy0t1xtcwgPSN-WsTuXCZEhx-D8mcf9Fyn3p0eiywQja6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <576442BB.2020008@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 10:40 AM, Jim Dory wrote:
> I was using the term List-serv as a generic term meaning a mailing list
> people subscribe to in order to receive messages sent by members via
> email.


I understand that and that is exactly the usage I object to. I
understand I'm tilting at windmills and that I've long since lost this
battle, and I'm in no way trying to protect Eric Thomas' trademark, but
it annoys me to see Mailman conflated with Listserv because Listserv is
a proprietary competing product and I think Mailman and its community
are a better alternative.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com  Fri Jun 17 14:39:31 2016
From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian Santiago)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:39:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having searchable archives
Message-ID: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>

Hello,

What is the current best way of implementing searchable archives hosted
directly by my own server? Thanks.

I've come across:
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20make%20the%20archives%20searchable

but the info there seems outdated. Ht://dig won't even ./configure on my
centos 7.2.x box.


- Fabian S.


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From doar9999 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 17 17:04:04 2016
From: doar9999 at yahoo.com (am)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:04:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is not Listserv - was: Our list serv
 host is threatening to shut us down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <576442BB.2020008@msapiro.net>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <57643301.7090407@msapiro.net>
 <CAKhfoy0t1xtcwgPSN-WsTuXCZEhx-D8mcf9Fyn3p0eiywQja6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <576442BB.2020008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAG+EZgHkMLJ16a0OSgUn7uLRdgJqBzVeZk-SoRa9GkBRF95zxg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Mark on the abuse of the term (as well as the quality of
product :-)) I correct this EVERYTIME I meet this abuse. earned me a
reputation of a pedant, but the abuse has fallen off to nil.

A.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 06/17/2016 10:40 AM, Jim Dory wrote:
> > I was using the term List-serv as a generic term meaning a mailing list
> > people subscribe to in order to receive messages sent by members via
> > email.
>
>
> I understand that and that is exactly the usage I object to. I
> understand I'm tilting at windmills and that I've long since lost this
> battle, and I'm in no way trying to protect Eric Thomas' trademark, but
> it annoys me to see Mailman conflated with Listserv because Listserv is
> a proprietary competing product and I think Mailman and its community
> are a better alternative.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/doar9999%40yahoo.com
>

From james at dorydesign.com  Fri Jun 17 17:09:53 2016
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:09:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is not Listserv - was: Our list serv
 host is threatening to shut us down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAG+EZgHkMLJ16a0OSgUn7uLRdgJqBzVeZk-SoRa9GkBRF95zxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKhfoy2ZbiWTnM69demvf9jmTpo8R05_xzkJeyvmx9LDQoNT6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <57643301.7090407@msapiro.net>
 <CAKhfoy0t1xtcwgPSN-WsTuXCZEhx-D8mcf9Fyn3p0eiywQja6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <576442BB.2020008@msapiro.net>
 <CAG+EZgHkMLJ16a0OSgUn7uLRdgJqBzVeZk-SoRa9GkBRF95zxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy0bx8rZfcLgAvs+FfCAhPWmQUF_fbjFzx5+i662TVwUmA@mail.gmail.com>

No need for everyone to jump on this. Mark and I have already discussed it,
and you can read that I won't use it again.   cheers, JD

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 1:04 PM, am <doar9999 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I agree with Mark on the abuse of the term (as well as the quality of
> product :-)) I correct this EVERYTIME I meet this abuse. earned me a
> reputation of a pedant, but the abuse has fallen off to nil.
>
> A.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> On 06/17/2016 10:40 AM, Jim Dory wrote:
>> > I was using the term List-serv as a generic term meaning a mailing list
>> > people subscribe to in order to receive messages sent by members via
>> > email.
>>
>>
>> I understand that and that is exactly the usage I object to. I
>> understand I'm tilting at windmills and that I've long since lost this
>> battle, and I'm in no way trying to protect Eric Thomas' trademark, but
>> it annoys me to see Mailman conflated with Listserv because Listserv is
>> a proprietary competing product and I think Mailman and its community
>> are a better alternative.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/doar9999%40yahoo.com
>>
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 17 17:25:34 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:25:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having searchable archives
In-Reply-To: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>
References: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>
Message-ID: <57646ACE.1080505@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 11:39 AM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
> 
> I've come across:
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20make%20the%20archives%20searchable
> 
> but the info there seems outdated. Ht://dig won't even ./configure on my
> centos 7.2.x box.


I use ht://Dig and essentially the Mailman branch at
<https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/htdig> which is kept up to
date with the head of the 2.1 branch. It differs from what I run in
production only because I have a few local mods on top of it.

I don't know what your ht://Dig issue is, but I last configured and made
ht://Dig 3.2.0b6 about a year ago on Ubuntu 14.04 without problems.

If you post the failure from your config.log, I'll look at it (no
guarantees of course).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com  Fri Jun 17 19:50:42 2016
From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian Santiago)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:50:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having searchable archives
In-Reply-To: <57646ACE.1080505@msapiro.net>
References: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>
 <57646ACE.1080505@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <FB257EA7-6EDE-43D1-B704-42B426212545@garbage-juice.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I run 2.1.22; that ok to install on top of?

On June 17, 2016 5:25:34 PM EDT, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>On 06/17/2016 11:39 AM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
>>
>> I've come across:
>>
>https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20make%20the%20archives%20searchable
>>
>> but the info there seems outdated. Ht://dig won't even ./configure on
>my
>> centos 7.2.x box.
>
>
>I use ht://Dig and essentially the Mailman branch at
><https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/htdig> which is kept up to
>date with the head of the 2.1 branch. It differs from what I run in
>production only because I have a few local mods on top of it.
>
>I don't know what your ht://Dig issue is, but I last configured and
>made
>ht://Dig 3.2.0b6 about a year ago on Ubuntu 14.04 without problems.
>
>If you post the failure from your config.log, I'll look at it (no
>guarantees of course).
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe:
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fsantiago%40garbage-juice.com

- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 17 21:13:29 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 18:13:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having searchable archives
In-Reply-To: <FB257EA7-6EDE-43D1-B704-42B426212545@garbage-juice.com>
References: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>
 <57646ACE.1080505@msapiro.net>
 <FB257EA7-6EDE-43D1-B704-42B426212545@garbage-juice.com>
Message-ID: <5764A039.80304@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 04:50 PM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
> I run 2.1.22; that ok to install on top of?


If you installed 2.1.22 from source, you can just bzr branch that branch
and configure it with exactly the same configure command you used for
2.1.22 and make install it to upgrade.

There should be no problems, but you will have to have a working
ht://Dig before you enable searching by setting

USE_HTDIG = 1 (or Yes or True)

and other things in mm_cfg.py. Be sure to read the docs in
INSTALL.htdig-mm or INSTALL.htdig-mm.html.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


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From jason at fayre.me  Fri Jun 17 21:36:21 2016
From: jason at fayre.me (Jason Fayre)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:36:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail cron jobs not running
Message-ID: <9c9ee80c-4d8e-3b5a-2f87-315c0b66d377@fayre.me>

Hello,
I administer a server that is running cPanel. The version of Mailman on 
the server is 2.1.20. We're having an issue where the mailman cron jobs 
don't seem to be running. Everything was working until cPanel did a 
reinstall of mailman. Specifically, the daily digests aren't going out. 
Everything in the crontab looks right. We do have one cron job that is 
throwing an error, but that is for root, not the mailman user.
If I run the senddigest script manually, everything works.
Any ideas


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 17 21:48:30 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 18:48:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail cron jobs not running
In-Reply-To: <9c9ee80c-4d8e-3b5a-2f87-315c0b66d377@fayre.me>
References: <9c9ee80c-4d8e-3b5a-2f87-315c0b66d377@fayre.me>
Message-ID: <5764A86E.8030301@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 06:36 PM, Jason Fayre wrote:
> 
> I administer a server that is running cPanel. The version of Mailman on
> the server is 2.1.20. We're having an issue where the mailman cron jobs
> don't seem to be running. Everything was working until cPanel did a
> reinstall of mailman. Specifically, the daily digests aren't going out.
> Everything in the crontab looks right. We do have one cron job that is
> throwing an error, but that is for root, not the mailman user.
> If I run the senddigest script manually, everything works.
> Any ideas


First of all, output from Mailman's crons (errors) is probably sent to
the mailman user which is actually the mailman site list. You should
ensure that your 'mailman' list has the site admins subscribed and
accepts non-member posts.

You may also wish to set MAILTO= in Mailman's crontab to send that mail
to an admin.

That said, cron writes a log. I'm not sure where the log might be in
cPanel, but maybe /var/log/cron or the 'CRON' entries in /var/log/syslog.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Fri Jun 17 16:28:06 2016
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:28:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR04MB12442C0C341B3A3159D8F001C5570@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

I have the same setup and the moderation pages work fine with my setup.  I would recommend ensuring your hosts are set up correctly in mm_cfg.py so that HTTPS is used.

Andrew.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgsonfamily.org at python.org] On Behalf Of John Griessen
Sent: 17 June 2016 15:58
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL

The rest of mailman version 2.1.22
is working fine with SSL and some rewriting by nginx and yet https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/open_electroporator  gives a message "will be sent over an insecure connection" when I seta button to discard and then do the submit all data button.

Is there a way to use SSL here?

Or... will I need to disable SSL for this page to get that submit to work?
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgsonfamily.org

From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com  Fri Jun 17 22:22:11 2016
From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian Santiago)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:22:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having searchable archives
In-Reply-To: <5764A039.80304@msapiro.net>
References: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>
 <57646ACE.1080505@msapiro.net>
 <FB257EA7-6EDE-43D1-B704-42B426212545@garbage-juice.com>
 <5764A039.80304@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <0DE74CDC-7C02-4F70-A53C-169E59D49F75@garbage-juice.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Thank you Sir!

Now, any chance you could give me a hand with mm3? Hehe.......

On June 17, 2016 9:13:29 PM EDT, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>On 06/17/2016 04:50 PM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
>> I run 2.1.22; that ok to install on top of?
>
>
>If you installed 2.1.22 from source, you can just bzr branch that
>branch
>and configure it with exactly the same configure command you used for
>2.1.22 and make install it to upgrade.
>
>There should be no problems, but you will have to have a working
>ht://Dig before you enable searching by setting
>
>USE_HTDIG = 1 (or Yes or True)
>
>and other things in mm_cfg.py. Be sure to read the docs in
>INSTALL.htdig-mm or INSTALL.htdig-mm.html.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe:
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fsantiago%40garbage-juice.com

- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 17 22:39:32 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:39:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having searchable archives
In-Reply-To: <0DE74CDC-7C02-4F70-A53C-169E59D49F75@garbage-juice.com>
References: <dd325ea5-04cb-346f-d31d-4b093e0dc8f0@garbage-juice.com>
 <57646ACE.1080505@msapiro.net>
 <FB257EA7-6EDE-43D1-B704-42B426212545@garbage-juice.com>
 <5764A039.80304@msapiro.net>
 <0DE74CDC-7C02-4F70-A53C-169E59D49F75@garbage-juice.com>
Message-ID: <5764B464.2030905@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 07:22 PM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
> 
> Now, any chance you could give me a hand with mm3? Hehe.......


I have recently installed 2 'production' instances of MM 3 basically
starting with mailman-bundler, but upgrading all the Mailman components
to the heads of their respective branches. I will be writing up what
I've done, but in the mean time, the mailman-users at mailman3.org list
<https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users at mailman3.org/>
is there for questions and support.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Fri Jun 17 16:21:54 2016
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:21:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR04MB1244DCF41C3B9081F91E59E2C5570@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

I would work with the provider in this situation.  In my case I run several lists which are all opt-in, but people click on the report as spam button in Yahoo and AOL, causing issues.  I have an agreement with the hosting provider who run the network that if they get any complaints from AOL or Hotmail that come through this route, that they forward them onto me and I unsubscribe them from the list.  With AOL it is difficult as they remove the original email address who is complaining, Hotmail is OK and now Yahoo reports get sent to me directly.

I send the list traffic through specific servers so that it doesn't affect anything else.

Andrew.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 01:28:57 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:28:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR04MB1244DCF41C3B9081F91E59E2C5570@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <HE1PR04MB1244DCF41C3B9081F91E59E2C5570@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5764DC19.8020402@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 01:21 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

> With
> AOL it is difficult as they remove the original email address who is
> complaining, Hotmail is OK and now Yahoo reports get sent to me
> directly.


AOL's redaction is both overkill and ineffective if you use VERP. I.e,
with VERP, the envelope is from
LISTNAME-bounces+screenname=aol.com at your.host. This appears in a Sender:
and Errors-To: header and the delivery agent's Return-Path: header. In
all three cases, AOL 'redacts' this by changing
LISTNAME-bounces+screenname=aol.com at your.host to
redacted-bounces+screenname=aol.com at your.host. Here are partial headers
from an AOL feedback report. All addresses are unchanged from AOL's
report except I changed the AOL screen name in the VERPed headers to
xxxxx, and deleted the From: address.

Return-Path: <redacted-bounces+xxxxx=aol.com at python.org>
Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [188.166.95.178])
	(using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by mtaig-mca01.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTPS id 876CD700000AA
	for <redacted>; Sat, 21 May 2016 16:51:44 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mail.python.org (mail1.ams1.psf.io [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3rBxmv4BcRzFqPm
	for <redacted>; Sat, 21 May 2016 16:51:43 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: ...
X-Original-To: redacted at python.org
Delivered-To: redacted at mail.python.org
Received: from mail.python.org (mail1.ams1.psf.io [127.0.0.1])
 by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3rBxmP4lrNzFqPm
 for <redacted at python.org>; Sat, 21 May 2016 16:51:17 -0400 (EDT)
...
Received: from mail1.ams1.psf.io (HELO mail.python.org) (127.0.0.1)
 by mail.python.org with SMTP; 21 May 2016 16:51:17 -0400
Received: from avasout03.plus.net (avasout03.plus.net [84.93.230.244])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits))
 (No client certificate requested)
 by mail.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS
 for <redacted at python.org>; Sat, 21 May 2016 16:51:17 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.63] ([80.189.231.201]) by avasout03 with smtp
 id x8o91s0094MNSaw018oAUk; Sat, 21 May 2016 21:48:11 +0100
X-CM-Score: 0.00
X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=KLCndwxo c=1 sm=1 tr=0
 a=2lUcMO59U90xkKzxSzK6mw==:117 a=2lUcMO59U90xkKzxSzK6mw==:17
 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10
 a=sAxD9uHJ85yeiWqiGbQA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10
Subject: Re: for / while else doesn't make sense
To: redacted at python.org
References:
<CAHJ7fxhOeKFbu3=Jso=wgpBnH9Opr_J_6SHLDO+KtAqVFeGHnA at mail.gmail.com>
 redacted at python.org
 redacted at news.astraweb.com
 redacted at wintry.unequivocal.co.uk
 redacted at news.astraweb.com
 redacted at lucidity.plus.com
 redacted at python.org
 redacted at news.astraweb.com
From: ...
Message-ID: <5740C989.4070408 at lucidity.plus.com>
Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 21:48:09 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/38.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <redacted at news.astraweb.com>
X-BeenThere: redacted at python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language
 <redacted.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/redacted>,
 redacted at python.org
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/redacted/>
List-Post: <mailto:redacted at python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:redacted at python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/redacted>,
 redacted at python.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
Errors-To: redacted-bounces+xxxxx=aol.com at python.org
Sender: "redacted" <redacted-bounces+xxxxx=aol.com at python.org>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Jun 18 06:38:55 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 19:38:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Defending against DDOS style scanning
In-Reply-To: <1466183826712.1832@cmu.edu>
References: <1466183826712.1832@cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <22373.9407.452238.660938@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Gretchen R Beck writes:

 > We had a group of machines hit our mailman server hard last night
 > -- trying all the advertised lists and their corresponding URLS.
 > After shutting down and restarting the webserver, the attempts
 > stopped.

This doesn't tell us enough to give useful advice, because there are a
wide variety of attacks that could be described with the above words.
There is no way to protect against all of them.  Some, you just have
to ride out.  Others, you need cooperation from your provider and
sometimes the backbone providers.  Some, you can take preventive
action: firewalls, blacklisting IPs, requiring strong authentication.

One interesting question is, is it possible that there were software
upgrades pending (ie, the server executables and configuration files
had been upgraded, but the daemons not restarted)?  I'm a little
surprised that a "hard hit" wasn't followed up when your servers went
back online, but it's possible that they were attacking known
weaknesses of particular versions of certain applications.  Of course
it's also possible they just went on to the next target on a list.

 > What (if anything) are folks doing to protect against such events?

Many things, but it depends on just what "events" shut you down.

- What were the attackers "trying"?  To subscribe?  To post?  To
  access list archives?  To receive subscriber lists?  Something else?

- How often did they "hit" (access) each list and each URL?

- What resources did your system run out of?  Disk?  CPU?  Network
  bandwidth?



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Jun 18 06:39:06 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 19:39:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

John Griessen writes:

 > The rest of mailman version 2.1.22
 > is working fine with SSL and some rewriting by nginx and yet
 > https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/open_electroporator  gives a message
 > "will be sent over an insecure connection" when I seta button to
 > discard and then do the submit all data button.

Do you have a proper certificate for the host, rooted in a well-known
service?  I suppose you do, but it's the first thing to check.  The
second is whether that root service is listed in your browser's list
of trusted roots.

Third, is this actually SSL and not TLS?  SSL is in fact considered
insecure by many experts; many libraries implementing these protocols
now refuse to use SSL (even v3), and some issue a warning if the
server forces it.


From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Sat Jun 18 09:15:40 2016
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 09:15:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us
 down for spam abuse
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR04MB1244DCF41C3B9081F91E59E2C5570@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAKhfoy0kiFey2g_wck0fjv2pVC1QC-fwc32Y-vp-eqhTE26WzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <HE1PR04MB1244DCF41C3B9081F91E59E2C5570@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <623c4bdf-8832-5128-fa09-68f8c659a2ed@sgeinc.com>

I had a customer with that problem.  We ended up using individual emails 
and adding the email address to the footer.  I don't remember the field, 
something user or user- something.  I had a program to scan those 
reports for the tag and provide the list of addresses to the list 
manager.  I think I ran it out of cron daily to scan the Maildir where 
those bounces/complaints ended up.

I had the list manager for those lists change to individual emails so 
that the email address could be added to the footer/signature as AOL and 
others seemed to never strip that part off.  AOL redacted the headers 
making them useless for determining the address to remove.

On 6/17/2016 4:21 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would work with the provider in this situation.  In my case I run several lists which are all opt-in, but people click on the report as spam button in Yahoo and AOL, causing issues.  I have an agreement with the hosting provider who run the network that if they get any complaints from AOL or Hotmail that come through this route, that they forward them onto me and I unsubscribe them from the list.  With AOL it is difficult as they remove the original email address who is complaining, Hotmail is OK and now Yahoo reports get sent to me directly.
>
> I send the list traffic through specific servers so that it doesn't affect anything else.
>
> Andrew.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/guest2%40sgeinc.com
>

From PokeAcer549 at outlook.com  Sat Jun 18 13:53:11 2016
From: PokeAcer549 at outlook.com (Billy Humphreys)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:53:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized on login
Message-ID: <AM3PR02MB1011CF542776E69974A52348E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hey group,

I cant login to my Mailman list; it says 401 Unauthorized even when I
auth the correct email and password.


-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>
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From bill3 at uniserve.com  Fri Jun 17 15:16:33 2016
From: bill3 at uniserve.com (Bill)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman3 administration
Message-ID: <57644C91.8010604@uniserve.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for some information on Mailman3 administration. I've found 
that it's not yet packaged by any of the common Linux distros - Debian, 
Ubuntu, Mint, RedHat, Centos, Fedora, Suse, Arch etc so I have some 
concerns about the amount of upkeep that running Mailman3 will entail.

I know that Mailman2 is available as a package on the above distros, but 
we would really like to take advantage of the kludge-free, virtual 
domains feature on Mailman3.

I've been asked by a local non-profit provider to assist them in moving 
their 200+ mailing lists from an outdated Sympa list server to 
Debian8/Postfix/Mailman. One of their chief concerns is the amount of 
extra administration, over and above normal list administration, that 
Mailman3 will require in the form of manual updates and maintenance.

We are in the evaluation and design stage right now, but could use any 
pertinent advice about supportive distros, available packages, the 
amount of extra administration involved or perhaps, in a worst case 
scenario, alternate list managers supporting a virtual domains feature 
similar to Mailman3.

Thanks for your help,

Bill McGrath
President, Vancouver Linux Users Group
https://vanlug.bc.ca

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 14:52:33 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:52:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized on login
In-Reply-To: <AM3PR02MB1011CF542776E69974A52348E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM3PR02MB1011CF542776E69974A52348E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>

On 06/18/2016 10:53 AM, Billy Humphreys wrote:
> 
> I cant login to my Mailman list; it says 401 Unauthorized even when I
> auth the correct email and password.


Are you trying to log in as a list member, moderator or admin?

Only the user options page and private archives ask for email address
and they want a member address and password although the list admin
password will work.

None of these login pages display "401 Unauthorized" upon failure. They
do return a 401 status header, but the page content is just the login
page with an error message like "Authorization failed."

So what exactly is asking for your user/password? Is it a mailman page
or perhaps the web server's http auth or something else?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 15:10:56 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:10:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman3 administration
In-Reply-To: <57644C91.8010604@uniserve.com>
References: <57644C91.8010604@uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <57659CC0.105@msapiro.net>

On 06/17/2016 12:16 PM, Bill wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for some information on Mailman3 administration. I've found
> that it's not yet packaged by any of the common Linux distros - Debian,
> Ubuntu, Mint, RedHat, Centos, Fedora, Suse, Arch etc so I have some
> concerns about the amount of upkeep that running Mailman3 will entail.
> 
> I know that Mailman2 is available as a package on the above distros, but
> we would really like to take advantage of the kludge-free, virtual
> domains feature on Mailman3.
> 
> I've been asked by a local non-profit provider to assist them in moving
> their 200+ mailing lists from an outdated Sympa list server to
> Debian8/Postfix/Mailman. One of their chief concerns is the amount of
> extra administration, over and above normal list administration, that
> Mailman3 will require in the form of manual updates and maintenance.
> 
> We are in the evaluation and design stage right now, but could use any
> pertinent advice about supportive distros, available packages, the
> amount of extra administration involved or perhaps, in a worst case
> scenario, alternate list managers supporting a virtual domains feature
> similar to Mailman3.
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Bill McGrath
> President, Vancouver Linux Users Group
> https://vanlug.bc.ca


I've copied this post and set Reply-To: to the Mailman 3 users list
<mailman-users at mailman3.org>. Please join at
<https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users at mailman3.org/>
before replying there.

That said, we are working on packaging for a more turn-key installation,
but we aren't there yet. I've installed a couple of instances including
the one at lists.mailman3.org, and it does require extra work. Some of
the work in my case is because I want to run all the Mailman pieces from
the heads of their branches rather than what's in PyPI, but even without
that, installation is significantly more work than installing a distro's
package.

I will be writing up my experiences, but that's not done yet either.

I will say that once you have Mailman 3 installed and running, updating
(which I do frequently, but which doesn't need to be done unless you
want specific updates/fixes) is pretty easy.

As far as alternatives are concerned There is an up to date Mailman 2.1
branch with better virtual domain support at
<https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost>, but I think in the
long run, you'd be better off with Mailman 3.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From PokeAcer549 at outlook.com  Sat Jun 18 16:30:14 2016
From: PokeAcer549 at outlook.com (Billy Humphreys)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 20:30:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized on login
In-Reply-To: <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>
References: <AM3PR02MB1011CF542776E69974A52348E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AM3PR02MB1011617C99F8E411A39943FAE0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I'm trying to login as list admin; pokeacer at riiconnect24.net and my list
password, at https://lists.riiconnect24.net/admin AND the link given in
the email sent. I've also tried root, and site admin stuff (even though
there's no username for it that I've found). Webserver isn't asking for
auth; the v-host doesn't even ask.

On 18/06/2016 19:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/18/2016 10:53 AM, Billy Humphreys wrote:
>> I cant login to my Mailman list; it says 401 Unauthorized even when I
>> auth the correct email and password.
>
> Are you trying to log in as a list member, moderator or admin?
>
> Only the user options page and private archives ask for email address
> and they want a member address and password although the list admin
> password will work.
>
> None of these login pages display "401 Unauthorized" upon failure. They
> do return a 401 status header, but the page content is just the login
> page with an error message like "Authorization failed."
>
> So what exactly is asking for your user/password? Is it a mailman page
> or perhaps the web server's http auth or something else?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pokeacer549%40outlook.com

-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>
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From PokeAcer549 at outlook.com  Sat Jun 18 16:30:18 2016
From: PokeAcer549 at outlook.com (Billy Humphreys)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 20:30:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized on login
In-Reply-To: <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>
References: <AM3PR02MB1011CF542776E69974A52348E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AM3PR02MB1011360882991DB7D28CB93AE0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I'm trying to login as list admin; pokeacer at riiconnect24.net and my list
password, at https://lists.riiconnect24.net/admin AND the link given in
the email sent. I've also tried root, and site admin stuff (even though
there's no username for it that I've found). Webserver isn't asking for
auth; the v-host doesn't even ask.

On 18/06/2016 19:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/18/2016 10:53 AM, Billy Humphreys wrote:
>> I cant login to my Mailman list; it says 401 Unauthorized even when I
>> auth the correct email and password.
>
> Are you trying to log in as a list member, moderator or admin?
>
> Only the user options page and private archives ask for email address
> and they want a member address and password although the list admin
> password will work.
>
> None of these login pages display "401 Unauthorized" upon failure. They
> do return a 401 status header, but the page content is just the login
> page with an error message like "Authorization failed."
>
> So what exactly is asking for your user/password? Is it a mailman page
> or perhaps the web server's http auth or something else?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pokeacer549%40outlook.com

-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>
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From PokeAcer549 at outlook.com  Sat Jun 18 16:30:20 2016
From: PokeAcer549 at outlook.com (Billy Humphreys)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 20:30:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized on login
In-Reply-To: <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>
References: <AM3PR02MB1011CF542776E69974A52348E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <57659871.7060008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AM3PR02MB1011AD83209EF3592BCB1EBDE0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I'm trying to login as list admin; pokeacer at riiconnect24.net and my list
password, at https://lists.riiconnect24.net/admin AND the link given in
the email sent. I've also tried root, and site admin stuff (even though
there's no username for it that I've found). Webserver isn't asking for
auth; the v-host doesn't even ask.

On 18/06/2016 19:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/18/2016 10:53 AM, Billy Humphreys wrote:
>> I cant login to my Mailman list; it says 401 Unauthorized even when I
>> auth the correct email and password.
>
> Are you trying to log in as a list member, moderator or admin?
>
> Only the user options page and private archives ask for email address
> and they want a member address and password although the list admin
> password will work.
>
> None of these login pages display "401 Unauthorized" upon failure. They
> do return a 401 status header, but the page content is just the login
> page with an error message like "Authorization failed."
>
> So what exactly is asking for your user/password? Is it a mailman page
> or perhaps the web server's http auth or something else?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pokeacer549%40outlook.com

-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>
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From PokeAcer549 at outlook.com  Sat Jun 18 16:31:52 2016
From: PokeAcer549 at outlook.com (Billy Humphreys)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 20:31:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized
Message-ID: <AM3PR02MB10112F72BEFA3B01FDFC9193E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

I'm trying to login as list admin; pokeacer at riiconnect24.net and my list
password, at https://lists.riiconnect24.net/admin AND the link given in
the email sent. I've also tried root, and site admin stuff (even though
there's no username for it that I've found). Webserver isn't asking for
auth; the v-host doesn't even ask.

On 18/06/2016 19:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/18/2016 10:53 AM, Billy Humphreys wrote:
>> I cant login to my Mailman list; it says 401 Unauthorized even when I
>> auth the correct email and password.
> Are you trying to log in as a list member, moderator or admin?
>
> Only the user options page and private archives ask for email address
> and they want a member address and password although the list admin
> password will work.
>
> None of these login pages display "401 Unauthorized" upon failure. They
> do return a 401 status header, but the page content is just the login
> page with an error message like "Authorization failed."
>
> So what exactly is asking for your user/password? Is it a mailman page
> or perhaps the web server's http auth or something else?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pokeacer549%40outlook.com

-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>

-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 18 16:59:43 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 13:59:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized
In-Reply-To: <AM3PR02MB10112F72BEFA3B01FDFC9193E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM3PR02MB10112F72BEFA3B01FDFC9193E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5765B63F.9080502@msapiro.net>

On 06/18/2016 01:31 PM, Billy Humphreys wrote:
> I'm trying to login as list admin; pokeacer at riiconnect24.net and my list
> password, at https://lists.riiconnect24.net/admin AND the link given in
> the email sent. I've also tried root, and site admin stuff (even though
> there's no username for it that I've found). Webserver isn't asking for
> auth; the v-host doesn't even ask.


The authentication requerst you get when you try to access
<https://lists.riiconnect24.net/> or
<https://lists.riiconnect24.net/mailman/admin> or
<https://lists.riiconnect24.net/> comes from the web server. You are not
getting as far as any Mailman login.

You say it isn't the web server, but it is. Why do you think it isn't?
There is either a .htaccess file or a Directory specification in the
Apache config that requires authentication.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From PokeAcer549 at outlook.com  Sat Jun 18 17:45:39 2016
From: PokeAcer549 at outlook.com (Billy Humphreys)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:45:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 401 Unauthorized
Message-ID: <AM3PR02MB1011E12307F402253E3A12C4E0280@AM3PR02MB1011.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hey,

OK, I fixed it (sorry, idiocy overcomes me sometimes), but now, if you
look at the site, it's an error/bug

"


    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.16


      We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs."

Error log: http://pastebin.com/Etn4SLfZ

But I've given www-data the owner and set it to 777


-- 
Billy Humphreys
Email <mailto:PokeAcer549 at outlook.com>
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From karotlopj at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 07:08:47 2016
From: karotlopj at gmail.com (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:08:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating Mailman with Sendmail on FreeBSD
Message-ID: <CAH7uOGvPLwKfJxgVg9VQeMw03a_VXpHVdFAgU7g=5A=9ibUvkg@mail.gmail.com>

I have now managed to setup Mailman, have created a list, imported old
messages and can view the archives online. Icons still don't show up but
that is just cosmetic so not that urgent.

What I need to do now is integrate Mailman with Sendmail. I'm not yet sure
if Sendmail is fully configured, but at least it can send out mail, so
people should at least be able to subscribe.

I have read a few guides to setting up Mailman with Sendmail, but there
seem to be a few ways to do this, so I'd like some advice on the best way
of doing it.

From john at cibolo.com  Tue Jun 21 12:06:59 2016
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 11:06:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>

On 06/18/2016 05:39 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  > The rest of mailman version 2.1.22
>  > is working fine with SSL and some rewriting by nginx and yet
>  > https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/open_electroporator  gives a message
>  > "will be sent over an insecure connection" when I seta button to
>  > discard and then do the submit all data button.
>
> Do you have a proper certificate for the host, rooted in a well-known
> service?  I suppose you do, but it's the first thing to check.

it is from letsencrypt.org

The
> second is whether that root service is listed in your browser's list
> of trusted roots.

It works fine for my webpages I set up such as
http://cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo/open_electroporator  that URl is rewritten and permenanetly directed to below:
https://cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo/open_electroporator

>
> Third, is this actually SSL and not TLS?  SSL is in fact considered
> insecure by many experts; many libraries implementing these protocols
> now refuse to use SSL (even v3), and some issue a warning if the
> server forces it.

I suppose it is TLS.  I followed very recent guides to set it up.

Yes, as far as behind nginx it is TLS:

  # SSL Settings

         ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2; # Dropping SSLv3, ref: POODLE
         ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on;
         ssl_session_cache   shared:SSL:10m;
         ssl_session_timeout 10m;
         ssl_certificate /etc/ssl/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
         ssl_certificate_key /etc/ssl/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
         # Diffie-Hellman parameter for DHE ciphersuites, recommended 2048 bits
         ssl_dhparam /etc/ssl/private/dhparam2048.pem;

Only admin of pending moderation is affected.
Maybe I have an operator error -- I'll check for setting the moderator name and password -- it may be blank or
from an older version of mailman  that this installation was migrated from...
fix_url has been run on the affected list.  That was after some restoring of data dirs and
there could be permissions problems...so maybe I still need to run fix_url again...

Thanks for the suggestions.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 21 12:39:03 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:39:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating Mailman with Sendmail on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAH7uOGvPLwKfJxgVg9VQeMw03a_VXpHVdFAgU7g=5A=9ibUvkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7uOGvPLwKfJxgVg9VQeMw03a_VXpHVdFAgU7g=5A=9ibUvkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57696DA7.6080208@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2016 04:08 AM, John Poltorak wrote:
> 
> What I need to do now is integrate Mailman with Sendmail. I'm not yet sure
> if Sendmail is fully configured, but at least it can send out mail, so
> people should at least be able to subscribe.
> 
> I have read a few guides to setting up Mailman with Sendmail, but there
> seem to be a few ways to do this, so I'd like some advice on the best way
> of doing it.


I recommend the "hijack postfix integration method" described at step 6
at <https://wiki.list.org/x/3047431> and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From john at cibolo.com  Tue Jun 21 13:01:13 2016
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:01:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>

I could not find any examples of people using mailman behind TLS cert so
I disabled the redirecting to https and the moderator function works that way.
Either way the general admin pages including membership work as expected.

There must be a problem with the nginx rewrites used to handle

http://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/mailman-list-name

as opposed to

http://cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo/mailman-list-name

I'll ask the nginx list about it, and probably stay with no https for mailman lists.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun 21 13:10:19 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:10:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
 <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <576974FB.3020605@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2016 10:01 AM, John Griessen wrote:
> I could not find any examples of people using mailman behind TLS cert so
> I disabled the redirecting to https and the moderator function works
> that way.
> Either way the general admin pages including membership work as expected.


See the reply at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-June/080916.html>
which tells you exactly how to fix this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Tue Jun 21 13:09:03 2016
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:09:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
 <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR04MB1246C68DB0D1D75918899AE5C52B0@VI1PR04MB1246.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

Fwiw, here is my setup:

server {
        listen 80;
        listen [::]:80;
        server_name lists.hodgsonfamily.org lists.bcab.org.uk;
        access_log off;
        error_log off;

        location / {
                rewrite ^ https://$host$request_uri permanent;
        }
}

server {
        listen 443 ssl;
        listen [::]:443 ssl;
        server_name lists.hodgsonfamily.org lists.bcab.org.uk;
        access_log  /var/log/nginx/lists-access.log;
        error_log  /var/log/nginx/lists-error.log warn;
        root /var/www/lists;
        ssl_certificate /etc/ssl/certs/samwise.hodgsonfamily.org.pem;
        ssl_certificate_key /etc/ssl/private/samwise.hodgsonfamily.org.key;
        ssl_ciphers 'ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:DHE-DSS-AES128-GCM-SHA256:kEDH+AESGCM:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-SHA256:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-SHA:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-SHA384:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA256:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA256:DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:AES128-GCM-SHA256:AES256-GCM-SHA384:AES128-SHA256:AES256-SHA256:AES128-SHA:AES256-SHA:AES:CAMELLIA:DES-CBC3-SHA:!aNULL:!eNULL:!EXPORT:!DES:!RC4:!MD5:!PSK:!aECDH:!EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA:!EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:!KRB5-DES-CBC3-SHA';
        ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on;
        ssl_dhparam /etc/ssl/private/dhparams.pem;
        add_header Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=31536000; includeSubdomains";
        ssl_stapling on;
        ssl_stapling_verify on;
        resolver 80.68.80.24 80.68.80.25;

        location = / {
                rewrite ^ /listinfo permanent;
        }

        location ~ ^/(admin|confirm|edithtml|listinfo|options|rmlist|subscribe|admindb|create|htdig|mmsearch|private|roster) {
                fastcgi_split_path_info (^/[^/]*)(.*)$;
                fastcgi_param SCRIPT_FILENAME /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/$fastcgi_script_name;
                fastcgi_param PATH_INFO $fastcgi_path_info;
                fastcgi_pass  unix:/var/run/fcgiwrap.socket;
                include /etc/nginx/fastcgi_params;
        }

        location /icons {
        alias /usr/local/mailman/icons;
        }

        location /pipermail {
                alias /usr/local/mailman/archives/public;
        }
        location /htdigimages {
                alias /var/lib/htdig/www;
        }
}

Here is my mm_cf.py file so you can see how I did the vhosts:

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Andrew.

From steve at tunedinweb.com  Wed Jun 22 10:53:14 2016
From: steve at tunedinweb.com (Steve Wehr)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:53:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not respecting /etc/postfix/transport ???
Message-ID: <01a701d1cc95$cdbd6570$69383050$@com>

I have about 100 mailing lists all using the domain name tunedinweb.com. All
the commands to subscribe, etc, come to something at tunedinweb.com which come
to my server and are processed by mailman. 

 

But I also have real email boxes @tunedinweb.com. Those are hosted off my
server. So in order to make both mailman and my email work I have postfix
configured with tunedinweb.com listed in the mydomains file, but have setup
a transport file to tell postfix to redirect any email for
something at tunedinweb.com to the server where that email is hosted. With
lines in transport that look like this:

 

steve at tunedinweb.com            smtp:mx.emailsrvr.com

stevew at tunedinweb.com           smtp:mx.emailsrvr.com

 

This is all working fine.

 

The issue is that my email address steve at tunedinweb.com is also a member of
several mailing lists. When mailman tries to send to steve at tunedinweb.com I
see this error message in the postfix log /var/log/maillog:

 

Jun  6 17:02:08 166941-web1 postfix/smtpd[25836]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <steve at tunedinweb.com>: Recipient address
rejected: User unknown in local recipient table;
from=<tunedin-temp-bounces+steve=tunedinweb.com at tunedinweb.com>
to=<steve at tunedinweb.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<166941-web1.tunedinweb.com>

 

So it seems that mailman is not respecting the /etc/postfix transport file
settings. I want mailman to send mail for those addresses specified in the
transport file to the server where that email is hosted. 

 

I must be missing something. Can someone explain what is going wrong.  

Thanks again for your help.

 

 

_____________________

Steve Wehr

Tunedin Web Design <http://www.tunedinweb.com/> 

845-246-9643

 


From scott at clutchinc.net  Tue Jun 21 12:59:56 2016
From: scott at clutchinc.net (Scott Thompson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:59:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit Destination
Message-ID: <25faa49f-a165-97ab-2ef2-6821c4615d1c@clutchinc.net>

Hello all.

How do I allow these through so I dont have to keep approving them?  
This is the email I get with pending requests:

Cause: Message has implicit destination


I want to allow those through automatically.


Thanks!

Scott


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 22 11:24:26 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:24:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit Destination
In-Reply-To: <25faa49f-a165-97ab-2ef2-6821c4615d1c@clutchinc.net>
References: <25faa49f-a165-97ab-2ef2-6821c4615d1c@clutchinc.net>
Message-ID: <576AADAA.20509@msapiro.net>

On 06/21/2016 09:59 AM, Scott Thompson wrote:
> 
> How do I allow these through so I dont have to keep approving them? 
> This is the email I get with pending requests:
> 
> Cause: Message has implicit destination
> 
> 
> I want to allow those through automatically.


Set Privacy options... -> Recipient filters ->
require_explicit_destination to No

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 22 12:22:18 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 09:22:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not respecting /etc/postfix/transport
 ???
In-Reply-To: <01a701d1cc95$cdbd6570$69383050$@com>
References: <01a701d1cc95$cdbd6570$69383050$@com>
Message-ID: <576ABB3A.20804@msapiro.net>

On 06/22/2016 07:53 AM, Steve Wehr wrote:
> 
> The issue is that my email address steve at tunedinweb.com is also a member of
> several mailing lists. When mailman tries to send to steve at tunedinweb.com I
> see this error message in the postfix log /var/log/maillog:
> 
> Jun  6 17:02:08 166941-web1 postfix/smtpd[25836]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <steve at tunedinweb.com>: Recipient address
> rejected: User unknown in local recipient table;
> from=<tunedin-temp-bounces+steve=tunedinweb.com at tunedinweb.com>
> to=<steve at tunedinweb.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<166941-web1.tunedinweb.com>
> 
> So it seems that mailman is not respecting the /etc/postfix transport file
> settings. I want mailman to send mail for those addresses specified in the
> transport file to the server where that email is hosted. 


Well, yes and no. Something is causing the mail from Mailman lists to be
rejected by Postfix for "User unknown in local recipient table" before
transport_maps is consulted for this user.

This almost certainly is not a Mailman thing. I suspect the issue is
because the mail arrives from localhost[127.0.0.1], not because it's
from Mailman.

What do you have for Postfix mynetworks and
smtpd_recipient_restrictions? (The output from 'postconf -n' might be
useful.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dave.lists at nathanson.org  Thu Jun 23 02:04:34 2016
From: dave.lists at nathanson.org (Dave Nathanson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:04:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17
Message-ID: <E2E36EBE-4220-4FF4-ACA5-33CEF9B93282@nathanson.org>

I'd like some help in making a case to convince my hosting company to upgrade from Mailman 2.1.17. 

I run several email lists for clubs, these are discussion lists that get up to 20 messages per day, and include up to 150 members. Replies are directed back to the list. 

My primary issue with MM 2.1.17 is about list messages from members who don't have their human names configured into their email clients, resulting in a list message from an unknown. It is just from "via listname <listname at example.com>" 
Since I'm still stuck on 2.1.17. I don't know what I am missing in the newer versions. I just know that it's been over 2 years since 2.1.17 which has an annoying omission due the the whole DEMARC thing. 

What are the advantages of upgrading beyond 2.1.17? 
How best to make a good case to convince them to upgrade their MailMan?
What version should I ask for? 

Thanks! 
 Dave Nathanson
 Mac Medix
 

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Thu Jun 23 07:51:32 2016
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:51:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17
In-Reply-To: <E2E36EBE-4220-4FF4-ACA5-33CEF9B93282@nathanson.org>
References: <E2E36EBE-4220-4FF4-ACA5-33CEF9B93282@nathanson.org>
Message-ID: <HE1PR04MB12442911AC6AA1FE52783DE4C52D0@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Dave Nathanson [dave.lists at nathanson.org] wrote:

>I'd like some help in making a case to convince my hosting company to upgrade from Mailman 2.1.17.

>I run several email lists for clubs, these are discussion lists that get up to 20 messages per day, and include up to 150 members. Replies are directed back to the list.

>My primary issue with MM 2.1.17 is about list messages from members who don't have their human names configured into their email clients, resulting in a list message from an unknown. It is just from "via listname <listname at example.com>"
>Since I'm still stuck on 2.1.17. I don't know what I am missing in the newer versions. I just know that it's been over 2 years since 2.1.17 which has an annoying omission due the the whole DEMARC thing.

If you download the tar package for the latest version, 2.1.22, the NEWS file will give a changelog of what has changed between the versions.  I don't believe a newer version would help you with the issue you are experiencing, however, as that is due to the way that Mailman handles messages which come from senders who's email operator publishes DMARC records for their domain.

Andrew.

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Thu Jun 23 08:04:41 2016
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:04:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR04MB12442911AC6AA1FE52783DE4C52D0@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <E2E36EBE-4220-4FF4-ACA5-33CEF9B93282@nathanson.org>,
 <HE1PR04MB12442911AC6AA1FE52783DE4C52D0@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR04MB124437FA3C69BFD19FF8232EC52D0@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

I was too hasty in sending out the prior message; actually there is a feature in 2.1.18 which I believe will help you with the issue you are having.

Prior to 2.1.18, the DMARC feature was activated on a per list basis, and was set for each member regardless of whether the sender's email provider had the DMARC set up on the domain.  With 2.1.18, you can set it up so the headers only get munged if the DMARC action on the domain is quarrentine or reject.  It is worth noting however that depending on how your host get Mailman, this feature may already be available.  For example, some RedHat packages prior to 2.1.18 already have this feature built into them.

Sorry about that.
Andrew.

________________________________________
From: Andrew Hodgson
Sent: 23 June 2016 12:51
To: Dave Nathanson; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17

Dave Nathanson [dave.lists at nathanson.org] wrote:

>I'd like some help in making a case to convince my hosting company to upgrade from Mailman 2.1.17.

>I run several email lists for clubs, these are discussion lists that get up to 20 messages per day, and include up to 150 members. Replies are directed back to the list.

>My primary issue with MM 2.1.17 is about list messages from members who don't have their human names configured into their email clients, resulting in a list message from an unknown. It is just from "via listname <listname at example.com>"
>Since I'm still stuck on 2.1.17. I don't know what I am missing in the newer versions. I just know that it's been over 2 years since 2.1.17 which has an annoying omission due the the whole DEMARC thing.

If you download the tar package for the latest version, 2.1.22, the NEWS file will give a changelog of what has changed between the versions.  I don't believe a newer version would help you with the issue you are experiencing, however, as that is due to the way that Mailman handles messages which come from senders who's email operator publishes DMARC records for their domain.

Andrew.

From chris.puchalski at raytheon.com  Thu Jun 23 14:42:47 2016
From: chris.puchalski at raytheon.com (Christopher A Puchalski)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:42:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NotAMemberError on Subscribe
Message-ID: <OF2FF1ADAD.4F3AB0A4-ON07257FDB.005DDB48-07257FDB.0066CB99@raytheon.com>



I see several mentions of the NotAMemberError happening on unsubscribe but
I am getting it when adding a member to a list. In my case we had a list of
people that just one person was an issue. As it turned out that particular
person's email address was a misspelled version of someone that is already
a member of other lists. For the sake of example we can call that person's
correct email is wwwrong at domain.com which takes fine and is already an
established user. When you try to add wwrong at domain.com the error comes up.
I have been unable to duplicate except that one exact example and another
slight misspelling. Thanks for any help that I can get in advance.


Christopher Puchalski

From chris.puchalski at raytheon.com  Thu Jun 23 15:50:37 2016
From: chris.puchalski at raytheon.com (Christopher A Puchalski)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:50:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NotAMemberError on Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <OF2FF1ADAD.4F3AB0A4-ON07257FDB.005DDB48-07257FDB.0066CB99@raytheon.com>
References: <OF2FF1ADAD.4F3AB0A4-ON07257FDB.005DDB48-07257FDB.0066CB99@raytheon.com>
Message-ID: <OF1645BC2E.B67E9626-ON07257FDB.006CD6DD-07257FDB.006D016E@raytheon.com>


Please disregard, this looks to have been an error on some customization we
did not related to source files. Sorry.


Christopher Puchalski



From:	Christopher A Puchalski <chris.puchalski at raytheon.com>
To:	mailman-users at python.org
Date:	06/23/2016 11:44 AM
Subject:	[Mailman-Users] NotAMemberError on Subscribe
Sent by:	"Mailman-Users" <mailman-users-bounces
            +chris.puchalski=raytheon.com at python.org>





I see several mentions of the NotAMemberError happening on unsubscribe but
I am getting it when adding a member to a list. In my case we had a list of
people that just one person was an issue. As it turned out that particular
person's email address was a misspelled version of someone that is already
a member of other lists. For the sake of example we can call that person's
correct email is wwwrong at domain.com which takes fine and is already an
established user. When you try to add wwrong at domain.com the error comes up.
I have been unable to duplicate except that one exact example and another
slight misspelling. Thanks for any help that I can get in advance.


Christopher Puchalski
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/chris.puchalski%40raytheon.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 24 01:23:27 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:23:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17
In-Reply-To: <E2E36EBE-4220-4FF4-ACA5-33CEF9B93282@nathanson.org>
References: <E2E36EBE-4220-4FF4-ACA5-33CEF9B93282@nathanson.org>
Message-ID: <c88618eb-5665-3c6d-75ff-1e910c308d4c@msapiro.net>

On 6/22/16 11:04 PM, Dave Nathanson wrote:
> I'd like some help in making a case to convince my hosting company to upgrade from Mailman 2.1.17. 


See the NEWS file at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/NEWS>
for all the features and bug fixes since 2.1.17.


> My primary issue with MM 2.1.17 is about list messages from members who don't have their human names configured into their email clients, resulting in a list message from an unknown. It is just from "via listname <listname at example.com>" 
> Since I'm still stuck on 2.1.17. I don't know what I am missing in the newer versions. I just know that it's been over 2 years since 2.1.17 which has an annoying omission due the the whole DEMARC thing. 


You have set from_is_list to Munge From. As Andrew says, in 2.1.18 and
beyond, there is a more selective dmarc_moderation_action setting that
does this munging only for post From: a domain with DMARC policy
p=reject and optionally p=quarantine.  Also, at some point (see the NEWS
file for when) this munging was fixed to use the user's real_name list
setting if the display name was not in the email.


> What are the advantages of upgrading beyond 2.1.17? 
> How best to make a good case to convince them to upgrade their MailMan?
> What version should I ask for? 


You should look at the NEWS for all the things that are enhanced/fixed
since 2.1.17. You should ask for the latest possible version. Note that
the Mailman that manages this and over 300 other @python.org lists is at
the head of the 2.1 branch at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/>. The latest
'official release' is 2.1.22 and 2.1.23 is coming soon.

It is possible, even likely, that your hosting company has installed a
downstream packege (.rpm or .deb) for which there is no upgrade
available. In this case, upgrading may be tricky, but at least if it is
Debian/Ubuntu, see <https://wiki.list.org/x/17891606>, and in any case,
we're here to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From kippels at hhu.de  Fri Jun 24 05:44:02 2016
From: kippels at hhu.de (Julian Kippels)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:44:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of Recipients
Message-ID: <20160624094401.GA3073@kriemhild>

Hi,

I have a question regarding the number of recipients per mail. If I have
a list with 50 entries, does mailman send one mail with 50 recipients,
or 50 mails with one recipient each?

Thanks,
Julian
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
| | Julian Kippels
| | M.Sc. Informatik
| |
| | Zentrum f?r Informations- und Medientechnologie
| | Heinrich-Heine-Universit?t D?sseldorf
| | Universit?tsstr. 1
| | Raum 25.41.O1.36
| | 40225 D?sseldorf / Germany
| |
| | Tel: +49-211-811-4920
| | mail: kippels at hhu.de
| | jabber: jukip100 at xmpp.hhu.de
---------------------------------------------------------


From john at cibolo.com  Fri Jun 24 11:09:19 2016
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:09:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <576974FB.3020605@msapiro.net>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
 <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
 <576974FB.3020605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <98df58d5-1fb5-75f5-6655-4214d942a404@cibolo.com>

On 06/21/2016 12:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/21/2016 10:01 AM, John Griessen wrote:
>> > I could not find any examples of people using mailman behind TLS cert so
>> > I disabled the redirecting to https and the moderator function works
>> > that way.
>> > Either way the general admin pages including membership work as expected.
>
> See the reply at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-June/080916.html>
> which tells you exactly how to fix this.

I checked and my configuration had:
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'cibolo.us'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'cibolo.us'
MTA='Postfix'

nginx was set to serve www.cibolo.us and cibolo.us by redirecting to  https://cibolo.us

the subdirectories are set to be rewritten as in
https://www.nginx.com/resources/wiki/start/topics/recipes/mailman/


location /mailman
location /images/mailman
location /pipermail


After noting these settings, I reran

sudo /usr/sbin/withlist -l -r fix_url sandbox

then cleared the browser cache,
then browsed
https://cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo

where I see an overall lists list

I use those links to navigate to

https://cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo/sandbox
https://cibolo.us/mailman/admin/sandbox
https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/sandbox

and when I change action to take to discard
and click submit,

a security warning pops up saying info will not be encrypted,
I click continue,

The radio button for discard goes back to Defer, the state it was in before.

All other functions of the admin pages work normally except for this.

=======================================================
If I change nginx to not redirect, but serve http without TLS certs when asked,
the user interface for moderation works normally.
====================================================

Is there some special rewrite needed for

https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/sandbox
?





From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 24 11:29:15 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:29:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <98df58d5-1fb5-75f5-6655-4214d942a404@cibolo.com>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
 <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
 <576974FB.3020605@msapiro.net>
 <98df58d5-1fb5-75f5-6655-4214d942a404@cibolo.com>
Message-ID: <04f4c749-3b00-2989-3326-17e05feffd45@msapiro.net>

On 6/24/16 8:09 AM, John Griessen wrote:

> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
...
> After noting these settings, I reran
>
> sudo /usr/sbin/withlist -l -r fix_url sandbox


You need to put

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

in mm,_cfg.py ad then rerun

sudo /usr/sbin/withlist -l -r fix_url sandbox

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 24 11:41:08 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:41:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of Recipients
In-Reply-To: <20160624094401.GA3073@kriemhild>
References: <20160624094401.GA3073@kriemhild>
Message-ID: <0e2808d0-ab59-05fc-2799-e9d985bcd1ad@msapiro.net>

On 6/24/16 2:44 AM, Julian Kippels wrote:
> 
> I have a question regarding the number of recipients per mail. If I have
> a list with 50 entries, does mailman send one mail with 50 recipients,
> or 50 mails with one recipient each?


It depends. With completely default settings Mailman will send the mail
in chunks of up to 500 recipients per message, but the chunks are
grouped in four groups by top level domain with the .com domains in one,
the .net and .org domains in a second, the .edu, .us and .ca domains in
a third and the rest in a fourth.

So there will be up to 4 messages with the .com addresses in one, the
.net and .org addresses in another and so on.

But, things like personalization and VERP will cause the messages to be
sent individually, so 50 messages with one recipient each, and chunks
are limited by SMTP_MAX_RCPTS which can be smaller than 500.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From john at cibolo.com  Fri Jun 24 11:42:55 2016
From: john at cibolo.com (John Griessen)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL
In-Reply-To: <04f4c749-3b00-2989-3326-17e05feffd45@msapiro.net>
References: <c7c88520-071f-b498-a7e4-fb8ea4806841@cibolo.com>
 <22373.9418.689549.596144@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <01eaf6b4-8fc4-e68e-e67b-f658fa6d84a1@cibolo.com>
 <8a91bb94-d253-9d97-4559-73dc16f790ff@cibolo.com>
 <576974FB.3020605@msapiro.net>
 <98df58d5-1fb5-75f5-6655-4214d942a404@cibolo.com>
 <04f4c749-3b00-2989-3326-17e05feffd45@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <a3a54017-97f6-0140-b1c3-c1268dd743a5@cibolo.com>

On 06/24/2016 10:29 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> put
>
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

That fixed it.

The nginx folks were quick to spot this also in just a few minutes.

Thanks,  John Griessen

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jun 24 14:05:54 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 03:05:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Number of Recipients
In-Reply-To: <20160624094401.GA3073@kriemhild>
References: <20160624094401.GA3073@kriemhild>
Message-ID: <22381.30338.126889.515851@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Julian Kippels writes:

 > I have a question regarding the number of recipients per mail. If I have
 > a list with 50 entries, does mailman send one mail with 50 recipients,
 > or 50 mails with one recipient each?

That depends on your settings.  If your list is personalized (eg, has
links to the user's configuration page), then it will be one per
recipient.  Otherwise, it sends the mail in batches, how large depends
on the setting of SMTP_MAX_RECIPIENTS, which defaults to 500 or
something like that, much larger than your example of 50.

If the outgoing mail is batched, however, at some point (either in
Mailman or in the MTA, Mark will tell you if you need to know which)
the list will be grouped by addressee domain, and the message will be
sent once per domain.  (Possibly more times if you have a huge list.)



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Wed Jun 29 12:12:02 2016
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel Brueggeman-Makda)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:12:02 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to access Mailman web interface
Message-ID: <BY1PR0401MB1160266635EAC13F469621E3B1230@BY1PR0401MB1160.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

I am trying to setup a new instance of Mailman 2.1.22 on RedHat 7.2 using Apache 2.4. The plan is to move mailman from an old server to the new one. For the moment I am just trying to get it setup.

Apache's home page is fine but as soon as I try to go to webserver/mailman/listinfo I get the generic "Bug in Mailman" error page.
There is nothing in the mailman logs to help me.

The httpd logs only point to a cgi error. One example of the lines in the logs are:
[cgi:error] [pid 20032] [client 198.256.23.205.54:12345\ AH01215: \tHTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate

Below is what I have in my httpd.comf file:
<Directory "/var/www">
    AllowOverride None
     Require all granted
</Directory>

<Directory "/var/www/html">
    Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Require all granted
</Directory>

<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
    AllowOverride None
    Options None
    Require all granted
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/


I have ran bin/check_perms -f and things look good. I will show my permissions just in case I am missing something.
drwxrwsr-x.  4 root mailman   33 Jun 28 14:45 archives
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:31 bin
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 cgi-bin
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 cron
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman  108 Jun 29 09:30 data
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 icons
drwxrwsr-x.  3 root mailman   20 Jun 28 16:28 lists
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   81 Jun 29 10:49 locks
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   43 Jun 28 16:32 logs
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   20 Jun 29 09:30 mail
drwxrwsr-x. 11 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x. 40 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 14:45 messages
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman    6 Jun 28 14:45 pythonlib
drwxrwsr-x. 11 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 16:32 qfiles
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 scripts
drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman    6 Jun 28 14:45 spam
drwxrwsr-x. 41 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 14:45 templates
drwxrwsr-x.  4 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:31 tests

Thanks!
Jewel

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun 29 19:24:11 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:24:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to access Mailman web interface
In-Reply-To: <BY1PR0401MB1160266635EAC13F469621E3B1230@BY1PR0401MB1160.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY1PR0401MB1160266635EAC13F469621E3B1230@BY1PR0401MB1160.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <747ef8e0-8627-f02f-a32b-dee17b488bbd@msapiro.net>

On 6/29/16 9:12 AM, Jewel Brueggeman-Makda wrote:
> I am trying to setup a new instance of Mailman 2.1.22 on RedHat 7.2 using Apache 2.4. The plan is to move mailman from an old server to the new one. For the moment I am just trying to get it setup.
> 
> Apache's home page is fine but as soon as I try to go to webserver/mailman/listinfo I get the generic "Bug in Mailman" error page.
> There is nothing in the mailman logs to help me.
> 
> The httpd logs only point to a cgi error. One example of the lines in the logs are:
> [cgi:error] [pid 20032] [client 198.256.23.205.54:12345\ AH01215: \tHTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate


AH01215 seems to be a generic cgi error code so that doesn't say much.

Were there more lines to this log message? Usually any cgi stderr output
is logged.


> Below is what I have in my httpd.comf file:
> <Directory "/var/www">
>     AllowOverride None
>      Require all granted
> </Directory>
> 
> <Directory "/var/www/html">
>     Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
>     AllowOverride None
>     Require all granted
> </Directory>
> 
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options None
>     Require all granted
> </Directory>
> 
> Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/


That all looks OK and anyway, you are seeing the "We hit a bug" screen
and not just a 500 error, so the Mailman script is executing.


> I have ran bin/check_perms -f and things look good. I will show my permissions just in case I am missing something.
> drwxrwsr-x.  4 root mailman   33 Jun 28 14:45 archives
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:31 bin
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 cgi-bin

Are all the files cgi-bin/* at least -rwxrws--- and group mailman?
check_perms should complain if not, but ...


> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 cron
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman  108 Jun 29 09:30 data
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 icons
> drwxrwsr-x.  3 root mailman   20 Jun 28 16:28 lists
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   81 Jun 29 10:49 locks
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   43 Jun 28 16:32 logs
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   20 Jun 29 09:30 mail
> drwxrwsr-x. 11 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 Mailman
> drwxrwsr-x. 40 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 14:45 messages
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman    6 Jun 28 14:45 pythonlib
> drwxrwsr-x. 11 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 16:32 qfiles
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 scripts
> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman    6 Jun 28 14:45 spam
> drwxrwsr-x. 41 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 14:45 templates
> drwxrwsr-x.  4 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:31 tests


This could be a SELinux issue. If it's enabled, try disabling it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca  Thu Jun 30 10:33:30 2016
From: dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca (David Magda)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:33:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admindb web forms not making changes
Message-ID: <a8ee132538e8eabd06851924d56ced8d.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca>

Hello,

I received moved a Mailman instance (via rsync) from a Debian 6 machine to
Debian 8, and while most things are generally okay, some the admin web
forms don't appear to be working anymore (under Apache 2.4). I've run
"check_perms" and it comes back clean.

So I can create a new list ("dmtest1") just fine, and the owner gets a
message with the new password and such. I then use another e-mail account
to send a message to "dmtest1-subscribe" which sends back to corresponding
"confirm" e-mail; I click on the confirm URL and that works.

The owner / moderator of the list then gets the 'new sub req' message. I
click on the "at your conv" link with "admindb/dmtest1", enter the
password from the creation message, and I get the list of sub requests.
However, when I select "Approve" and click on "Submit All Data", I get
sent to the "Dmtest1 Moderator Authentication" page to enter the password.
The following appears in Apache's access.log when I click on 'submit':

10.10.10.42 - - [30/Jun/2016:08:52:19 -0400] "POST
/mailman/admindb/dmtest1 HTTP/1.1" 200 1268
"http://lists.[foo-example].org/mailman/admindb/dmtest1" "Mozilla/5.0
(X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:47.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/47.0"

There's nothing in Apache's error.log, and nothing in
/usr/local/mailman/logs/. Re-entering the password and
approving/submitting is just a loop.

Another list admin says that they have some messages with bodies that are
bigger than the list limit, and that "discard" does not work. He says that
"the page just refreshes".

Any ideas?

Regards,
David



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 30 11:24:31 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:24:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admindb web forms not making changes
In-Reply-To: <a8ee132538e8eabd06851924d56ced8d.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca>
References: <a8ee132538e8eabd06851924d56ced8d.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <304417b7-5d72-4f63-ab13-b6f92666b705@msapiro.net>

On 6/30/16 7:33 AM, David Magda wrote:
> 
> The owner / moderator of the list then gets the 'new sub req' message. I
> click on the "at your conv" link with "admindb/dmtest1", enter the
> password from the creation message, and I get the list of sub requests.
> However, when I select "Approve" and click on "Submit All Data", I get
> sent to the "Dmtest1 Moderator Authentication" page to enter the password.
> The following appears in Apache's access.log when I click on 'submit':
> 
> 10.10.10.42 - - [30/Jun/2016:08:52:19 -0400] "POST
> /mailman/admindb/dmtest1 HTTP/1.1" 200 1268
> "http://lists.[foo-example].org/mailman/admindb/dmtest1" "Mozilla/5.0
> (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:47.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/47.0"
...
> Another list admin says that they have some messages with bodies that are
> bigger than the list limit, and that "discard" does not work. He says that
> "the page just refreshes".


See the FAQs at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602> and
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030614>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Thu Jun 30 13:35:32 2016
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel Brueggeman-Makda)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:35:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to access Mailman web interface
In-Reply-To: <747ef8e0-8627-f02f-a32b-dee17b488bbd@msapiro.net>
References: <BY1PR0401MB1160266635EAC13F469621E3B1230@BY1PR0401MB1160.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <747ef8e0-8627-f02f-a32b-dee17b488bbd@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BY1PR0401MB1160440B49940E81F2D595E7B1240@BY1PR0401MB1160.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Changing SELinux to permissive worked!


I edited the /etc/selinux/config

SELINUX=permissive



Thank you!

Jewel



-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jewel.makda=washburn.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 6:24 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Not able to access Mailman web interface



On 6/29/16 9:12 AM, Jewel Brueggeman-Makda wrote:

> I am trying to setup a new instance of Mailman 2.1.22 on RedHat 7.2 using Apache 2.4. The plan is to move mailman from an old server to the new one. For the moment I am just trying to get it setup.

>

> Apache's home page is fine but as soon as I try to go to webserver/mailman/listinfo I get the generic "Bug in Mailman" error page.

> There is nothing in the mailman logs to help me.

>

> The httpd logs only point to a cgi error. One example of the lines in the logs are:

> [cgi:error] [pid 20032] [client 198.256.23.205.54:12345\ AH01215:

> \tHTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate





AH01215 seems to be a generic cgi error code so that doesn't say much.



Were there more lines to this log message? Usually any cgi stderr output is logged.





> Below is what I have in my httpd.comf file:

> <Directory "/var/www">

>     AllowOverride None

>      Require all granted

> </Directory>

>

> <Directory "/var/www/html">

>     Options Indexes FollowSymLinks

>     AllowOverride None

>     Require all granted

> </Directory>

>

> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">

>     AllowOverride None

>     Options None

>     Require all granted

> </Directory>

>

> Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/





That all looks OK and anyway, you are seeing the "We hit a bug" screen and not just a 500 error, so the Mailman script is executing.





> I have ran bin/check_perms -f and things look good. I will show my permissions just in case I am missing something.

> drwxrwsr-x.  4 root mailman   33 Jun 28 14:45 archives

> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:31 bin drwxrwsr-x.  2 root

> mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 cgi-bin



Are all the files cgi-bin/* at least -rwxrws--- and group mailman?

check_perms should complain if not, but ...





> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 cron drwxrwsr-x.  2 root

> mailman  108 Jun 29 09:30 data drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman 4096 Jun 29

> 09:30 icons

> drwxrwsr-x.  3 root mailman   20 Jun 28 16:28 lists

> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   81 Jun 29 10:49 locks

> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   43 Jun 28 16:32 logs

> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman   20 Jun 29 09:30 mail

> drwxrwsr-x. 11 root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 Mailman drwxrwsr-x. 40

> root mailman 4096 Jun 28 14:45 messages

> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman    6 Jun 28 14:45 pythonlib

> drwxrwsr-x. 11 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 16:32 qfiles drwxrwsr-x.  2

> root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:30 scripts

> drwxrwsr-x.  2 root mailman    6 Jun 28 14:45 spam

> drwxrwsr-x. 41 root mailman 4096 Jun 28 14:45 templates drwxrwsr-x.  4

> root mailman 4096 Jun 29 09:31 tests





This could be a SELinux issue. If it's enabled, try disabling it.



--

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net<mailto:mark at msapiro.net>>        The highway is for gamblers,

San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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