From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  1 02:18:57 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:18:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.21 Final Release
In-Reply-To: <56D38370.6060602@msapiro.net>
References: <56D38370.6060602@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56D54261.3000404@msapiro.net>

On 02/28/2016 03:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.21.


It always happens. The only question is how. The thing is discovery of a
bug immediately after a release. This time the how was my PGP signature
being broken in the outgoing messages from 2 of the 4 lists I posted the
announcement to.  I have fixed the bug
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1551075>. As far as I know it
only affects messages signed as PGP/MIME, not inline PGP, by Enigmail 1.9

In any case, I'm considering another release in a month or so which
opens another window for i18n updates. I strongly encourage anyone with
an interest in translations of Mailman to get the 2.1.21 release and
help with updating the translations. I did receive some updates for
2.1.21, but at this point the only translations that are 100% complete
are German, Japanese and Russian. If you can help with any of the
others, I encourage you to do so.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From paul at tokyoprogressive.org  Tue Mar  1 10:22:48 2016
From: paul at tokyoprogressive.org (paul at tokyoprogressive.org)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 00:22:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I closed my lost but still get notices
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1456765202.14643.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1456765202.14643.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <62B4DACC-F020-4520-8DE9-2E06BD0C8131@tokyoprogressive.org>

Hi

I used to have a list that I closed (I deleted it in Cpanel). I even moved the domain to a different host. But I still get notices at the first of the month about my membership in my own list. I presume others do, and it is annoying, since I have moved the whole list over to a service like MailChimp.

What could be causing this announcement and is there a way to stop it?

You can see it here:

?..snip?...
This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your
nangoku-jiyu-jin.net <http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/> mailing list memberships.  It includes your
subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a
list.

You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery
or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
changes.  For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of
the list (for example, tokyoprogressive-request at nangoku-jiyu-jin.net <mailto:tokyoprogressive-request at nangoku-jiyu-jin.net>)
containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email
message will be sent to you with instructions.

If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
?..


http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/options/tokyoprogressive/  ?..


?..snip??

Thanks for any help in this.



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  1 14:23:00 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 11:23:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting emails with certain types of
 attachments
In-Reply-To: <87d1rfaxah.fsf@posteo.de>
References: <87d1rfaxah.fsf@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <56D5EC14.3090801@msapiro.net>

On 02/29/2016 03:53 PM, Titus von der Malsburg wrote:
> 
> is it possible to automatically reject emails that have attachments with
> certain MIME types (e.g., application/msword, ?)?
> 
> Since there are so many types of files that are unsafe, I also wonder
> whether it is possible to specify a white list of safe MIME types (e.g.,
> application/PDF) and to reject everything else.  Is that possible?
> 
> I did some searching but only found solutions for automatically
> stripping attachments, which is not what I want.


You can remove such attachments either by "blacklisting" bad MIME types
(Content filtering -> filter_mime_types) or "whitelisting" good ones
(Content filtering -> pass_mime_types), but you say you don't want that,
and you want to reject (or discard might be better) the mail outright.

You might consider your MTA's features for this, e.g., Postfix's
mime_header_checks. Then the MTA can reject the mail at incoming SMTP
which is a better solution.If your requirements are more complex you
might still use a milter (or some coding in exim).

In Mailman, your only option is Privacy options... -> Spam filters ->
header_filter_rules (see the 'details' for this in the admin web UI.

For example, a rule with a regexp like

^Content-Type:.*application/(?!pdf)

and an action of Discard should discard any message with a MIME part of
mail type application and sub part not starting with 'pdf'. See
<https://docs.python.org/2/library/re.html#regular-expression-syntax>.

If you try this, I suggest initially setting your rule actions to hold
until you are confident that your rules do what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  1 14:35:28 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 11:35:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I closed my lost but still get notices
In-Reply-To: <62B4DACC-F020-4520-8DE9-2E06BD0C8131@tokyoprogressive.org>
References: <mailman.0.1456765202.14643.mailman-users@python.org>
 <62B4DACC-F020-4520-8DE9-2E06BD0C8131@tokyoprogressive.org>
Message-ID: <56D5EF00.4000700@msapiro.net>

On 03/01/2016 07:22 AM, paul at tokyoprogressive.org wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I used to have a list that I closed (I deleted it in Cpanel). I even moved the domain to a different host. But I still get notices at the first of the month about my membership in my own list. I presume others do, and it is annoying, since I have moved the whole list over to a service like MailChimp.
> 
> What could be causing this announcement and is there a way to stop it?



This is a cPanel issue. Whatever you did in cPanel may have disabled the
list, but it didn't remove it. Please see
<http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>

If you still have access to this server and have sufficient access to
run Mailman's bin/ commands, you might be able to use bin/rmlist to
actually remove the list.

Otherwise, you will have to contact the admins of the server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar  1 22:20:45 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 12:20:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  I closed my lost but still get notices
In-Reply-To: <62B4DACC-F020-4520-8DE9-2E06BD0C8131@tokyoprogressive.org>
References: <mailman.0.1456765202.14643.mailman-users@python.org>
 <62B4DACC-F020-4520-8DE9-2E06BD0C8131@tokyoprogressive.org>
Message-ID: <22230.23565.505310.180593@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

paul at tokyoprogressive.org writes:

 > I used to have a list that I closed (I deleted it in Cpanel).

Talk to the host admins or cPanel.  It may be a Mailman problem, but
we don't know anything about cPanel's list administration code, and
this is definitely an area where cPanel has made modifications to
Mailman itself as well.  Sorry, but really, we just can't help you
with cPanel-specific functions because we don't know how it works.

If there are no lists at all left on the host and you have root
access, use the package manager to uninstall Mailman.

If that doesn't help, come back and we can talk about search-and-
destroy on the relevant parts of Mailman on the host, but if you don't
already know how to do such surgery, you risk completely breaking the
host.

Regards,



From trealtv at yandex.com  Wed Mar  2 11:16:15 2016
From: trealtv at yandex.com (treal tv)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:16:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble installing mailman.client?
Message-ID: <56D711CF.3080109@yandex.com>

I noticed today on a new box I couldn't install mailman.client via pip 
or easy_install. I actually got it to install with pip by removing the . 
(so it was just mailmanclient)

But then when I launch a python shell, I can't use mailmanclient as a 
module. So if I list the available modules, it doesn't show up:

['alembic==0.8.4', 'falcon==0.3.0', 'flufl.bounce==2.3', 
'flufl.i18n==1.1.3', 'flufl.lock==2.4.1', 'httplib2==0.9.2', 
'lazr.config==2.1', 'lazr.delegates==2.0.3', 'lazr.smtptest==2.0.3', 
'mailman-hyperkitty==1.0.0', 'mailman==3.0.1', 'mako==1.0.3', 
'markupsafe==0.23', 'nose2==0.5.0', 'nose==1.3.7', 'passlib==1.6.5', 
'python-editor==0.5', 'python-mimeparse==1.5.1', 'requests==2.9.1', 
'six==1.10.0', 'sqlalchemy==1.0.11', 'zope.component==4.2.2', 
'zope.configuration==4.0.3', 'zope.event==4.1.0', 
'zope.i18nmessageid==4.0.3', 'zope.interface==4.1.3', 'zope.schema==4.4.2']


I mentioned it in #mailman IRC and someone else noticed it was an issue 
on his machine too.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  3 14:23:31 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:23:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble installing mailman.client?
In-Reply-To: <56D711CF.3080109@yandex.com>
References: <56D711CF.3080109@yandex.com>
Message-ID: <56D88F33.5020206@msapiro.net>

On 03/02/2016 08:16 AM, treal tv wrote:
> I noticed today on a new box I couldn't install mailman.client via pip
> or easy_install. I actually got it to install with pip by removing the .
> (so it was just mailmanclient)
> 
> But then when I launch a python shell, I can't use mailmanclient as a
> module. So if I list the available modules, it doesn't show up:
> 
> ['alembic==0.8.4', 'falcon==0.3.0', 'flufl.bounce==2.3',
> 'flufl.i18n==1.1.3', 'flufl.lock==2.4.1', 'httplib2==0.9.2',
> 'lazr.config==2.1', 'lazr.delegates==2.0.3', 'lazr.smtptest==2.0.3',
> 'mailman-hyperkitty==1.0.0', 'mailman==3.0.1', 'mako==1.0.3',
> 'markupsafe==0.23', 'nose2==0.5.0', 'nose==1.3.7', 'passlib==1.6.5',
> 'python-editor==0.5', 'python-mimeparse==1.5.1', 'requests==2.9.1',
> 'six==1.10.0', 'sqlalchemy==1.0.11', 'zope.component==4.2.2',
> 'zope.configuration==4.0.3', 'zope.event==4.1.0',
> 'zope.i18nmessageid==4.0.3', 'zope.interface==4.1.3', 'zope.schema==4.4.2']


We are working on setting up mailman-users at mailman3.org (running on
MM 3 of course), but we're not quite there yet.



In the mean time the best list for Mailman 3 and particularly
HyperKitty, Postorius and MailmanBundler issues is
mailman-developers at python.org or you can try the #mailman IRC channel on
freenode.

That said, is this possibly an issue with the wrong virtulaenv. I.e. you
didn't do the pip install in the same virtualenv as the rest of MM 3?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From pc03 at mulligan.org  Thu Mar  3 19:00:46 2016
From: pc03 at mulligan.org (pc03 at mulligan.org)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 17:00:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing archives from "deleted" mailing list
Message-ID: <56D8D02E.3090403@proto6.com>


I removed a mailing list, but left the archive intact. Is there a way to 
access the archive via the web interface.  Since the mailing list has 
been deleted it seems that:

http://mail.example.org/private/listname no longer works.

I would assume that I can copy the archive (html files) elsewhere or 
perhaps set up some sort of apache "alias", but I was hoping that if I 
"rmlist"d the list and kept the archive I could still easily provide 
access to the old messages.

         Thanks,
                 Geoff


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  4 11:21:04 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 08:21:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing archives from "deleted" mailing list
In-Reply-To: <56D8D02E.3090403@proto6.com>
References: <56D8D02E.3090403@proto6.com>
Message-ID: <56D9B5F0.6080907@msapiro.net>

On 03/03/2016 04:00 PM, pc03 at mulligan.org wrote:
> 
> I removed a mailing list, but left the archive intact. Is there a way to
> access the archive via the web interface.  Since the mailing list has
> been deleted it seems that:
> 
> http://mail.example.org/private/listname no longer works.


Correct. If the archives were private and the list is gone, there's no
wat to authenticate list ownership/membership for access to the archives.

The simplest thing is to make the archives public by doing

cd /path/to/mailman/archives/public
ln -s ../private/listname listname

Then you can access the archive via the public URL, normally something
like <http://www.example.com/pipermail/listname>.

To avoid this situation in the future, set Archiving Options ->
archive_private to public before deleting the list.

If you don't want the archive to be completely public, you will have do
do this via the web server and control access there as well.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From phirayam at fredhutch.org  Fri Mar  4 13:30:19 2016
From: phirayam at fredhutch.org (Hirayama, Pat)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 18:30:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
Message-ID: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>

Greetings,

Apparently, many of my subscribers must be using Outlook, so they see the mailto:listname-bounces at domain hypertext and are copying that to send new messages to the list. Aside from repeatedly telling the users that they need to send to listname at domain, have any of you found a better solution?

Thanks,

				-p

--
Pat Hirayama
Systems Engineer / 206.667.4856 / phirayam at fredhutch.org / Fred Hutch / Cures Start Here
CIT | Enterprise IT Services / Advancing IT and Data Services to Accelerate the Elimination of Disease



From phirayam at fredhutch.org  Fri Mar  4 13:33:03 2016
From: phirayam at fredhutch.org (Hirayama, Pat)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 18:33:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
In-Reply-To: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
References: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>

Sorry, I should add this salient point.  Since the subscriber has sent to -bounces, it is going to the list admins, but there is no indication to the subscriber that this has happened.  As far as they know, their message has been posted to the list.  This seems bad, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to have the list admins forward the message, since that will change the sender.  

Thanks,

				-p 

-----Original Message-----
From: Hirayama, Pat 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:30 AM
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead of list address?

Greetings,

Apparently, many of my subscribers must be using Outlook, so they see the mailto:listname-bounces at domain hypertext and are copying that to send new messages to the list. Aside from repeatedly telling the users that they need to send to listname at domain, have any of you found a better solution?

Thanks,

				-p

--
Pat Hirayama
Systems Engineer / 206.667.4856 / phirayam at fredhutch.org / Fred Hutch / Cures Start Here
CIT | Enterprise IT Services / Advancing IT and Data Services to Accelerate the Elimination of Disease



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  4 22:06:31 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 19:06:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
In-Reply-To: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>
References: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>
Message-ID: <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>

On 03/04/2016 10:33 AM, Hirayama, Pat wrote:
> Apparently, many of my subscribers must be using Outlook, so they see
> the mailto:listname-bounces at domain hypertext and are copying that to
> send new messages to the list. Aside from repeatedly telling the
> users that they need to send to listname at domain, have any of you
> found a better solution?


You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
them, at least in most user populations, is futile.

And Pat added:
> Sorry, I should add this salient point.  Since the subscriber has
> sent to -bounces, it is going to the list admins, but there is no
> indication to the subscriber that this has happened.  As far as they
> know, their message has been posted to the list.  This seems bad, but
> it doesn't seem like a good idea to have the list admins forward the
> message, since that will change the sender.


It depends on how much work you want to do. If YOU have a decent MUA,
you can open the original attached "unrecognized bounce" message and
resend it to the list. It might be held for implicit destination, but
you can avoid that by adding the -bounces address to the list's
acceptable_aliases, at least in the non-verp case, but it's probably
better to edit the original To: before resending so other innocent
reply-all messages don't go to the bounces address. I.e., there are ways
to resend that message To: the list and From: the original sender; how
much work they are depends on what tools you have at your disposal.

But, this is the wrong answer because it puts all the effort on the list
owner. The right answer is to compose a nice helpful message explaining
the situation and what the correct list posting address is and keep that
handy on your desktop so when you get one of these you can just forward
it back to the original sender together with your message and put the
burden back on them. Maybe some will even learn. Others will just blame
your list because obviously their Microsoft software can't be doing
anything wrong.

Happy Fri Sep 8221 19:03:26 PST 1993

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  4 22:27:51 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 19:27:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
In-Reply-To: <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>
References: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56DA5237.4050505@msapiro.net>

On 03/04/2016 07:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
> them, at least in most user populations, is futile.


In my zealousness to rant about the clueless, I forgot to mention that
starting with Mailman 2.1.14 There is an include_sender_header setting
(if not disabled by the site admin) which can be set to no to prevent
Mailman from adding a Sender: header with the list-bounces address. This
*shouldn't* affect normal bounces as they *should* be sent to the
envelope sender, not to the Sender: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Mar  5 01:31:27 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2016 15:31:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
In-Reply-To: <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>
References: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22234.32063.512579.410254@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 03/04/2016 10:33 AM, Hirayama, Pat wrote:

 > > [Users] send new messages to the list [addressed to
 > > listname-bounces]. Aside from repeatedly telling the users that
 > > they need to send to listname at domain, have any of you found a
 > > better solution?
 > 
 > You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
 > them, at least in most user populations, is futile.

I agree that this is a hard problem, and not one we should try to
solve in Mailman 2.  But I wonder if we can't do a better job on
behalf of list admins in Mailman 3?  What I have specifically in mind
is to reject the message in Mailman if From (or Sender?) is a list
member, *after* checking for "actionable" messages (eg, DSNs for
bounce processing).  Are there any legitimate reasons for a subscriber
to send mail to listname-bounces?  The is_subscriber test would avoid
99% of backscatter, as well, I hope.

If people consistently get an automated rejection, most will learn (by
now they've figured out that human owners are a lot more flexible and
helpful than even the best software == GNU Mailman).  Some will scream
at the list owner, so probably this feature would need to be an
option. :-(

From sebastian.radish at gmx.de  Sun Mar  6 13:17:59 2016
From: sebastian.radish at gmx.de (Sebastian Rettenberger)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2016 19:17:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP2MemberAdaptor
Message-ID: <1528092.1j5iMjX38I@sarge>

Dear Mailman Users,

I would like to point you to a LDAP member adaptor I have written for Mailman 
2: https://github.com/rettenbs/mailman-ldap-memberadaptor

It is based on the work of https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558106 but 
allows the adminstrator and the user to change most of the configuration 
options, e.g. digest/non-digest, enable/disable mail delivery, .... 
(Adding/removing users is still not possible.) To store these options, the 
build in member adaptor is used (no external database or LDAP modifications 
are required).

Groups are also handled a bit different from the original LDAP adaptor: The 
orignal adaptor assumes that group stores user dn's while my adaptor connects 
them via the uid. I replaced this part because our LDAP is structured this way 
but it should not be to difficult to get back the original functionality. 

Be aware that the code is new in still in beta. Bug reports and patches are 
welcome.

Best regards,
Sebastian



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  7 15:32:22 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 12:32:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP2MemberAdaptor
In-Reply-To: <1528092.1j5iMjX38I@sarge>
References: <1528092.1j5iMjX38I@sarge>
Message-ID: <56DDE556.3030606@msapiro.net>

On 03/06/2016 10:17 AM, Sebastian Rettenberger wrote:
> Dear Mailman Users,
> 
> I would like to point you to a LDAP member adaptor I have written for Mailman 
> 2: https://github.com/rettenbs/mailman-ldap-memberadaptor


Thank you for your work.

I have added this link to the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/15564884>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry.rueger at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 20:13:20 2016
From: barry.rueger at gmail.com (Barry Rueger)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 17:13:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dreamhost moderator login (also, a couple questions)
Message-ID: <CAC-hXDcZRw9w94=xAC0Gt3OAR1yBvdNuAXkLHDh+wUz4nWU0ag@mail.gmail.com>

I've spent an hour or so in the wiki, FAQs, and searching archives and
Google, and have thus far come up dry.

I have a one-click install of Mailman 2.1.17 at Dreamhost.com.

I just added two users as Moderators, and am now trying to figure out how
they can log in.

The particular need is to add or remove the occasional list subscriber. I
THINK a Moderator can do this?

Every source that I've found says that moderator login is at:

http://tld.org/mailman/admindb/list-name

Problem is that the URL for the list I'm running is:

http://lists.1234legsgood.com/admin.cgi/nspda_list-1234legsgood.com

I've tried every way of adding /mailman/  and or /admindb/ to that URL and
can't make it work.

Anyone have a pointer for me?

Many thanks.

The thing that I love about Mailman is that since setting up this list
three years ago it has required absolutely no attention - it just keeps
working.

Barry

-- 
===================================
832 Hendecourt Rd.
North Vancouver BC V7K 2Y2
778-848-5586

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  8 10:53:02 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 07:53:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dreamhost moderator login (also,
 a couple questions)
In-Reply-To: <CAC-hXDcZRw9w94=xAC0Gt3OAR1yBvdNuAXkLHDh+wUz4nWU0ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC-hXDcZRw9w94=xAC0Gt3OAR1yBvdNuAXkLHDh+wUz4nWU0ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DEF55E.4030900@msapiro.net>

On 03/07/2016 05:13 PM, Barry Rueger wrote:
> I've spent an hour or so in the wiki, FAQs, and searching archives and
> Google, and have thus far come up dry.
> 
> I have a one-click install of Mailman 2.1.17 at Dreamhost.com.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/12812344> ;)


> I just added two users as Moderators, and am now trying to figure out how
> they can log in.


Note that adding addresses to the moderator box in the admin GUI General
Options section only gets notices sent to them. You still have to go to
the Passwords section, set a moderator password and give it to them. See
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4030693>.


> The particular need is to add or remove the occasional list subscriber. I
> THINK a Moderator can do this?


No. Only someone authenticating with the list admin password can change
membership. Moderators can only handle requests which are held messages
and subscribes and unsubscribes waiting approval.


> Every source that I've found says that moderator login is at:
> 
> http://tld.org/mailman/admindb/list-name
> 
> Problem is that the URL for the list I'm running is:
> 
> http://lists.1234legsgood.com/admin.cgi/nspda_list-1234legsgood.com
> 
> I've tried every way of adding /mailman/  and or /admindb/ to that URL and
> can't make it work.


Have you tried
http://lists.1234legsgood.com/admindb.cgi/nspda_list-1234legsgood.com. I
think that will work, but if not, see where the "Tend to pending
moderator requests" link in the admin GUI goes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From phirayam at fredhutch.org  Tue Mar  8 12:22:08 2016
From: phirayam at fredhutch.org (Hirayama, Pat)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:22:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
In-Reply-To: <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>
References: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E666C906@adama.fhcrc.org>

Mark,
 
> It depends on how much work you want to do. If YOU have a decent MUA,
> you can open the original attached "unrecognized bounce" message and
> resend it to the list. It might be held for implicit destination, but
> you can avoid that by adding the -bounces address to the list's
> acceptable_aliases, at least in the non-verp case, but it's probably
> better to edit the original To: before resending so other innocent
> reply-all messages don't go to the bounces address. I.e., there are ways
> to resend that message To: the list and From: the original sender; how
> much work they are depends on what tools you have at your disposal.
> 
> But, this is the wrong answer because it puts all the effort on the list
> owner. The right answer is to compose a nice helpful message explaining
> the situation and what the correct list posting address is and keep that
> handy on your desktop so when you get one of these you can just forward
> it back to the original sender together with your message and put the
> burden back on them. Maybe some will even learn. Others will just blame
> your list because obviously their Microsoft software can't be doing
> anything wrong.
> 

Pretty much what I expected.  Ah well. 

Thanks!

				-p

--
Pat Hirayama
Systems Engineer / 206.667.4856 / phirayam at fredhutch.org / Fred Hutch / Cures Start Here
CIT | Enterprise IT Services / Advancing IT and Data Services to Accelerate the Elimination of Disease




From phirayam at fredhutch.org  Tue Mar  8 12:25:36 2016
From: phirayam at fredhutch.org (Hirayama, Pat)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:25:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to
 -bounces address instead of list address?
In-Reply-To: <56DA5237.4050505@msapiro.net>
References: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B69@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E6662B8F@adama.fhcrc.org>
 <56DA4D37.90202@msapiro.net> <56DA5237.4050505@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AE5F7147890F3544BFCDB1594A4329C9E666C915@adama.fhcrc.org>

Ah!  include_sender_header does sound like it would be helpful in this case.  (And I'm the site admin, actually).  Have to decide if it is worth it to either (a) switch from supplied RPMs to source code; or (b) rebuild this server with CentOS 7 instead of CentOS 5 it is currently running.  Thanks!

> -----Original Message-----
> On 03/04/2016 07:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> > You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
> > them, at least in most user populations, is futile.
> 
> 
> In my zealousness to rant about the clueless, I forgot to mention that
> starting with Mailman 2.1.14 There is an include_sender_header setting
> (if not disabled by the site admin) which can be set to no to prevent
> Mailman from adding a Sender: header with the list-bounces address. This
> *shouldn't* affect normal bounces as they *should* be sent to the
> envelope sender, not to the Sender: header.
> 

--
Pat Hirayama
Systems Engineer / 206.667.4856 / phirayam at fredhutch.org / Fred Hutch / Cures Start Here
CIT | Enterprise IT Services / Advancing IT and Data Services to Accelerate the Elimination of Disease




From willi.uebelherr at gmail.com  Wed Mar  9 16:21:46 2016
From: willi.uebelherr at gmail.com (willi uebelherr)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 16:51:46 -0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Option: Mail delivery - disabled
Message-ID: <56E093EA.3000207@gmail.com>


Dear friends,

on the mailman maillist from WSF discuss the option: "Mail delivery" was 
changed from enabled to disabled without my activity. Do you know about 
some conditions, that that can be? Here this version entry in the header 
i found:

X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20

I am shure, that the admin people never will do it. Maybe, it is a side 
effect from other configuration or administration activities?

PS: Jai Sen and Subbu Sastry are the admins of the WSF discuss list. 
Orsan Senalp is the admin of the NetworkedLabour discuss list.

many thanks and greetings, willi
St. Elena, Venezuela

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  9 18:02:00 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 15:02:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Option: Mail delivery - disabled
In-Reply-To: <56E093EA.3000207@gmail.com>
References: <56E093EA.3000207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E0AB68.8080700@msapiro.net>

On 03/09/2016 01:21 PM, willi uebelherr wrote:
> 
> on the mailman maillist from WSF discuss the option: "Mail delivery" was
> changed from enabled to disabled without my activity. Do you know about
> some conditions, that that can be?


Delivery can be disabled by bounce processing, by user action or by the
list admin. If it is still disabled, the list admin can see why in the
web list admin GUI in the Membership List, however if you have reenabled
delivery, the reason is gone.

If delivery was disabled by bounce processing, there is information in
Mailman's bounce log, but otherwise the change won't be logged.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From coolpilotscorpio at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 13 11:19:22 2016
From: coolpilotscorpio at yahoo.com (scorpio 2005)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:19:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start a new thread" button doesn't work -
 Mailman3.0.2 Panel
In-Reply-To: <577020802.467438.1457874100300.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <577020802.467438.1457874100300.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <577020802.467438.1457874100300.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1624550628.502006.1457882362447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>




 

 Hi Experts, ?We setup mailman3 using bundler. Now, we are facingissue with by clicking new thread button. That?s, after click create new thread and clicksend button by typing some texts, it shows message sent successfully. But, nothing is appearing inmailman admin panel. Please help and fix the issue.
 Already posted in gitlab mailman forum. no response last 3 days till now. ?Start and Reply button notworking from Mailman3 panel (#58) ? Issues ? mailman / HyperKitty

| ? |
| ? |  | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
| Start and Reply button notworking from Mailman3 panel (...It seems these two features are not creating new thread and reply of a exiting thread without any expect results. Pls kindly look it in to this and please let... |
|  |
| View on gitlab.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
| ? |



 ?Refer attached screenshots for your reference. ? ?Thanks and Regards,Cool Pilot Scorpio ?

  

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 13 14:25:24 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:25:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start a new thread" button doesn't work -
 Mailman3.0.2 Panel
In-Reply-To: <1624550628.502006.1457882362447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <577020802.467438.1457874100300.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <577020802.467438.1457874100300.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1624550628.502006.1457882362447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56E5B094.3030702@msapiro.net>

On 03/13/2016 08:19 AM, scorpio 2005 via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  Hi Experts,  We setup mailman3 using bundler. Now, we are facingissue with by clicking new thread button. That?s, after click create new thread and clicksend button by typing some texts, it shows message sent successfully. But, nothing is appearing inmailman admin panel. Please help and fix the issue.
>  Already posted in gitlab mailman forum. no response last 3 days till now.  Start and Reply button notworking from Mailman3 panel (#58) ? Issues ? mailman / HyperKitty


Your issue in the gitlab tracker is the appropriate place for this. The
mailman-users at python.org list is, of all the possibly appropriate
places, the place least likely to be seen by people actively working on
Postorius, Hyperkitty and Mailman 3.

There will very soon be a mailman-users at mailman3.org list for general
questions. Until then, mailman-developers at python.org is a better place
for those, and the gitlab issue trackers are probably the best place for
specific issues.


>   Refer attached screenshots for your reference.    Thanks and Regards,Cool Pilot Scorpio  


Content filtering on these lists removes most non-text parts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From kapuzino at web.de  Sun Mar 13 16:44:54 2016
From: kapuzino at web.de (kapuzino at web.de)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 21:44:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without localhost ?
Message-ID: <3qNY5K2GsxzFqHj@mail.python.org>

Hello

The new operator of my hosting decided to remove localhost from whitelist in plesk outbound filter to prevent spam and blacklisting.
Anybody knows any chance to use mailman another way ?
MM is still installed (v2.1.18), but recently only woks delivering to server-internal adresses.
The service guy said, there might by a chance using smtp auth.

I have no access to mm_cfg.py of my own, but perheaps the service assistant will do the job, if I give him information.
(have a low price hosting)

In an older post M.Sapiro wrote:
Mailman can use the sendmail (or other) command to deliver mail. ... but DON'T DO IT. See the documentation in ...Sendmail.py ... for reasons.
But sadly I don't understand it.

Regards Kapuzino




From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 13 18:44:12 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:44:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without localhost ?
In-Reply-To: <3qNY5K2GsxzFqHj@mail.python.org>
References: <3qNY5K2GsxzFqHj@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <56E5ED3C.6010006@msapiro.net>

On 03/13/2016 01:44 PM, kapuzino at web.de wrote:
> 
> The new operator of my hosting decided to remove localhost from whitelist in plesk outbound filter to prevent spam and blacklisting.
> Anybody knows any chance to use mailman another way ?


There are a couple of possibilities.


> MM is still installed (v2.1.18), but recently only woks delivering to server-internal adresses.
> The service guy said, there might by a chance using smtp auth.
> 
> I have no access to mm_cfg.py of my own, but perheaps the service assistant will do the job, if I give him information.
> (have a low price hosting)


Mailman has two settings for the outgoing mail server that can be
overridden in mm_cfg.py. The default settings are

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0    # 0 means use the smtplib default which is 25

These are for outgoing mail from Mailman only. They have nothing to do
with delivery of mail TO mailman. You can tell Mailman to connect to any
SMTP server and port by setting SMTPHOST to the fully qualified name of
the server and/or SMTPPORT to the port.

If the host operator will perhaps set up and allow an alternative port
for you to use without authentication, then Mailman can simply be
configured to use that port.

If that isn't an option, but you can use an alternate port such as 465
or 587  that may require TLS and/or authentication, you can set SMTPPORT
to that value, but you (or the host admin) will have to patch Mailman's
SMTPDirect.py module to provide the authentication. You can find a patch
for this at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558281>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From beanstallk at gmail.com  Mon Mar 14 12:37:05 2016
From: beanstallk at gmail.com (Jack Beanstallk)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 16:37:05 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a single mailman/postfix instance run lists for
 two different domains?
Message-ID: <CAMxML1fRTswM5Zc+01+9HpRB8EgmtyWRP8ULzdguuSZD50X9zQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We have a mailman list running:-

mailman hostname = lists.example1.org
mailling list domain = example1.org

mx record for example1.org points to lists.example1.org

Mailman and postfix are configured to use the hostname and
domain explicitly to handle example1.org mailing lists.

Can a single mailman/postfix instance be configured to handle mailing lists
for two different domains, if yes, how is this configured?

e.g.

mailman hostname = lists.example1.org

mailling list domains to handle
example1.org
different1.org

mx record for example1.org points to lists.example1.org
There is no mx record for different1.org but if mailman/postfix can handle
multiple domains, the mx record can change to point to lists.example1.org

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 15 03:25:31 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 00:25:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a single mailman/postfix instance run lists
 for two different domains?
In-Reply-To: <CAMxML1fRTswM5Zc+01+9HpRB8EgmtyWRP8ULzdguuSZD50X9zQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxML1fRTswM5Zc+01+9HpRB8EgmtyWRP8ULzdguuSZD50X9zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E7B8EB.9000001@msapiro.net>

On 03/14/2016 09:37 AM, Jack Beanstallk wrote:
> 
> We have a mailman list running:-
> 
> mailman hostname = lists.example1.org
> mailling list domain = example1.org


I'm assuming you're using Mailman 2.1.  Mailman 3 is different in
several ways, but supports multiple domains without restriction.

Mailman 2.1.x as distributed by the GNU Mailman project supports
multiple domains with the restriction that list names must be globally
unique.


> mx record for example1.org points to lists.example1.org
> 
> Mailman and postfix are configured to use the hostname and
> domain explicitly to handle example1.org mailing lists.
> 
> Can a single mailman/postfix instance be configured to handle mailing lists
> for two different domains, if yes, how is this configured?


Yes, see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and it's
subsections.

There are some other things like add_virtualhost() lines in mm_cfg.py
and things get a little messy if you want to use the same web host for
the web UI for lists in different email domains, but it is certainly
doable in multiple ways, but as I said you can't have two lists with the
same name even if the domains are different.


> e.g.
> 
> mailman hostname = lists.example1.org
> 
> mailling list domains to handle
> example1.org
> different1.org
> 
> mx record for example1.org points to lists.example1.org
> There is no mx record for different1.org but if mailman/postfix can handle
> multiple domains, the mx record can change to point to lists.example1.org


The easiest thing is just add different1.org to mydestination in Postfix
main.cf and add aliases for lists in both domains without regard to
domain. You may or may not be able to do that and you may or may not
need to make changes to Mailman's config, or possibly just change the
host_name attribute for lists in different1.org.

Without knowing more specifics about your current postfix and Mailman
configs, I can't say much more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 15 15:18:16 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:18:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a single mailman/postfix instance run lists
 for two different domains?
In-Reply-To: <CAMxML1f4WtJVK28vMzTz4SXeQZ2ZUoXeded8nxpRnC82AehicA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxML1f4WtJVK28vMzTz4SXeQZ2ZUoXeded8nxpRnC82AehicA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56E85FF8.3010002@msapiro.net>

On 03/15/2016 04:25 AM, Jack Beanstallk wrote:
> Mailman v 2.1.9 
> 
> What more info would you need to advise further?
> 
> When lists are created I don't manually add list names to /etc/aliases nor does it appear in the file.
> 
> Ideally it would be nice to use the same UI for different1.org <http://different1.org> lists (I understand can't have the same name lists for different domains in 2.1.x) but also happy to use use an alternative UI hosted on the same server.


Please keep threads on the list unless there is necessary, private
information in the post

It seems you have Mailman-Postfix integration configured, so list
aliases are in Mailman's data/aliases(.db) files.


> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = fqdn
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "example1.org"
> 
> # Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
> # MUST be called after they have been defined.
> 
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> 
> /etc/postfix/main.cf <http://main.cf>


When you want to show someone your Postfix config, give them the output
of 'postconf -n'.

...
> mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, $mydomain, mx1.$mydomain, different1.org
> 
> MTA = 'Postfix


I hope this last line is actually in mm_cfg.py.

So what happens if you just create a list normally and then in it's web
UI, set it's General Options -> host_name to different1.org?

I think all should be fine. If not, please post 'postconf -n' and
details about what is not working with the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From trealtv at yandex.com  Tue Mar 15 16:52:10 2016
From: trealtv at yandex.com (treal tv)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:52:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't force explicit reply to
Message-ID: <56E875FA.7030502@yandex.com>

I'm trying to follow the examples here and here.

http://mailman.readthedocs.org/en/release-3.0/src/mailman/handlers/docs/reply-to.html
http://www.pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/handlers/docs/reply-to.html?highlight=reply

I can't start because it won't recognize my commands. I've tried the 
mailman shell (mailman 3 from mailman-bundler) and normal python.

When trying to do:

>>> listname.reply_goes_to_list  =  ReplyToMunging.explicit_header I get back >>> listname.reply_to_address 
= 'mygood at address.net' Traceback (most recent call last): File 
"<console>", line 1, in <module> NameError: name 'mlist' is not defined 
I'm sure this is a newbie mistake but I would really appreciate any help 
on what I'm doing wrong here. Our situation is we're trying to run some 
anonymous lists, but when you set it to anonymous list, it overrides the 
"Explicit reply-to address", I'm trying to get it to use that explicit 
reply-to address, no matter where I have to configure it.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 15 22:33:52 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 19:33:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't force explicit reply to
In-Reply-To: <56E875FA.7030502@yandex.com>
References: <56E875FA.7030502@yandex.com>
Message-ID: <56E8C610.5000806@msapiro.net>

On 03/15/2016 01:52 PM, treal tv wrote:
> I'm trying to follow the examples here and here.
>
>
http://mailman.readthedocs.org/en/release-3.0/src/mailman/handlers/docs/reply-to.html
>
>
http://www.pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/handlers/docs/reply-to.html?highlight=reply
>
>
> I can't start because it won't recognize my commands. I've tried the
> mailman shell (mailman 3 from mailman-bundler) and normal python.
>
> When trying to do:
>
>>>> listname.reply_goes_to_list  =  ReplyToMunging.explicit_header I get
>>>> back >>> listname.reply_to_address
> = 'mygood at address.net' Traceback (most recent call last): File
> "<console>", line 1, in <module> NameError: name 'mlist' is not defined


In Mailman shell, you need first to do

from zope.component import getUtility
from mailman.interfaces.listmanager import IListManager
list_manager = getUtility(IListManager)
from mailman.interfaces.mailinglist import ReplyToMunging
mlist = list_manager.get('list at example.com')

Or if you've invoked mailman shell with the list address, you only need do

from mailman.interfaces.mailinglist import ReplyToMunging

and either

mlist = m

or use m instead of mlist in the following:

Then you can do

mlist.reply_goes_to_list  =  ReplyToMunging.explicit_header

...

and finally you have to do

config.db.commit()

or you can do

from mailman.database.transaction import transaction

with transaction():
   make_some_changes()

and when you exit the with block, it will commit.


> I'm sure this is a newbie mistake but I would really appreciate any help
> on what I'm doing wrong here. Our situation is we're trying to run some
> anonymous lists, but when you set it to anonymous list, it overrides the
> "Explicit reply-to address", I'm trying to get it to use that explicit
> reply-to address, no matter where I have to configure it.


I'm not sure exactly how anonymous lists work in MM 3. Are you saying it
actually changes the explicit reply-to shown in Postorius or that it
just overrides it and puts the list address in reply-to.

If the latter, setting it in 'mailman shell' probably won't help.

Caveat: I'm not totally up to speed w/ MM3 yet. I'm struggling with
Postorius et al right now trying to get a Mailman 3 users list set up,
so I probably don't know a lot either.

In theory, you should be able to do all list management with Postorius,
but there are probably gaps. These can be reported to the issue tracker
at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From coolpilotscorpio at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 16 02:50:53 2016
From: coolpilotscorpio at yahoo.com (scorpio 2005)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:50:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start a new thread" button doesn't work -
 Mailman3.0.2 Panel
In-Reply-To: <56E5B094.3030702@msapiro.net>
References: <56E5B094.3030702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1923747939.693985.1458111053585.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your reply. We are running mailman 3.0.2 using bundler and we are facing couple of issue with this version. We are stuck with this issues.
We are not sure which one is stable version in mailman to use it. Can you please tell me which mailman version is stable to setup it. If so, how can switch over or migrate my existing mailman 3.0.2 bundler to gitlab repository
Your valuable reply is highly appreciated.
Regards,Cool Pilot Scorpio

 

    On Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:26 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
 

 On 03/13/2016 08:19 AM, scorpio 2005 via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>? 
> 
>? Hi Experts,? We setup mailman3 using bundler. Now, we are facingissue with by clicking new thread button. That?s, after click create new thread and clicksend button by typing some texts, it shows message sent successfully. But, nothing is appearing inmailman admin panel. Please help and fix the issue.
>? Already posted in gitlab mailman forum. no response last 3 days till now.? Start and Reply button notworking from Mailman3 panel (#58) ? Issues ? mailman / HyperKitty


Your issue in the gitlab tracker is the appropriate place for this. The
mailman-users at python.org list is, of all the possibly appropriate
places, the place least likely to be seen by people actively working on
Postorius, Hyperkitty and Mailman 3.

There will very soon be a mailman-users at mailman3.org list for general
questions. Until then, mailman-developers at python.org is a better place
for those, and the gitlab issue trackers are probably the best place for
specific issues.


>? Refer attached screenshots for your reference.? ? Thanks and Regards,Cool Pilot Scorpio? 


Content filtering on these lists removes most non-text parts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>? ? ? ? The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California? ? better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/coolpilotscorpio%40yahoo.com

  

From barry at list.org  Wed Mar 16 10:06:31 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:06:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start a new thread" button doesn't work -
 Mailman3.0.2 Panel
In-Reply-To: <1923747939.693985.1458111053585.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <56E5B094.3030702@msapiro.net>
 <1923747939.693985.1458111053585.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20160316100631.11c42875@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Mar 16, 2016, at 06:50 AM, scorpio 2005 via Mailman-Users wrote:

>Thanks for your reply. We are running mailman 3.0.2 using bundler and we are
>facing couple of issue with this version. We are stuck with this issues.  We
>are not sure which one is stable version in mailman to use it.

I suspect you will get better results running Mailman Core from the git master
branch.  While I am backporting fixes to the 3.0.x branch and releasing that
semi-regularly (e.g. 3.0.2) all new development, including the addition of new
features previously missing, happen only on master.  I expect that we'll
release 3.1 by Pycon 2016.

I know that bundler provides 3.0.2 right now, but it shouldn't be too
difficult to switch.  The few folks I know running Mailman 3 in production are
running Core off the git master branch.

Cheers,
-Barry

From rohitnarurkar at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 23:56:00 2016
From: rohitnarurkar at gmail.com (Rohit Narurkar)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:56:00 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to call REST API through Java or Postman
Message-ID: <CANR7AMJCw6FjtFycaMhkQh-2uZFe7oP8uYVSaX=CSjzWER0Jyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have setup Mailman just as it has been described in the documentation and
installation instructions. I am working in a Python Virtual Environment,
and have also made necessary changes in the "mailman.cfg" to add [mta]
information. I can now run Python shell and access the REST API calls. For
example, I can run "dump_json('http://localhost:8001/3.0/domains', None,
None, 'restadmin', 'restpass')" to list all domains.
I have also tried to follow another way, which works fine for me:
>>> from httplib2 import Http
>>> headers = {
...     'Content-Type': 'application/x-www-form-urlencode',
...     'Authorization': 'Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz',
...     }
>>> url = 'http://localhost:8001/3.0/domains'
>>> response, content = Http().request(url, 'GET', None, headers)

And the content gives me the right expected value.
Now, I am trying to make calls to the REST API through the Rest Template in
Spring Java, and also through Postman.
In Postman, I am adding 2 key-values in the 'headers', Content-Type and
Authorization. And I am making a GET request to "
http://localhost:8001/3.0/domains". Whenever I try this, the Mailman stops
responding and I do not get any response. I cannot even call the REST API
through Python until the Postman request is cancelled.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

From trealtv at yandex.com  Thu Mar 17 14:31:14 2016
From: trealtv at yandex.com (treal tv)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:31:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass subscribe breaks MM 3.0.2
Message-ID: <56EAF7F2.6010508@yandex.com>

Just got latest Mailman set up from git to replace the mailman-bundler 
one I was using. Everything seems to be working alright, except we can't 
use mass subscribe or unsubscribe anymore.

I'm having trouble figuring out if this is a problem with me not setting 
the program up correctly or a MM 3.0.2 bug. could anyone provide some 
insight on our problem?

The traceback ends in:

File "/opt/mm3/postorius/src/postorius/views/list.py" in list_mass_subscribe
   315.                     validate_email(email)

Exception Type: NameError at /postorius/lists/(list at domain)/mass_subscribe/
Exception Value: global name 'validate_email' is not defined

here is a dpaste of the output.
http://dpaste.com/3YPPJ66

From rafi at brijnet.org  Sun Mar 20 11:44:11 2016
From: rafi at brijnet.org (Rafael Salasnik)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:44:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers being deleted
Message-ID: <3qSkB73vWszFr9m@mail.python.org>

On one of my lists 18 subscribers were deleted yesterday at the same 
time with no apparent reason. All the messages were in the format of:

"xxxxx at xxxxx.xxx has been removed from xxxxxx."

All addresses are aol, yahoo or hotmail/live. However other users 
with those accounts weren't removed For this group I have two lists. 
Some (but not all) belong to both lists but their subscriptions to 
the other list was not removed.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Many thanks


From rafi at brijnet.org  Sun Mar 20 11:46:59 2016
From: rafi at brijnet.org (Rafael Salasnik)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:46:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers being deleted
Message-ID: <3qSkFF3hHVzFrD8@mail.python.org>

On one of my lists 18 subscribers were deleted yesterday at the same 
time with no apparent reason. All the messages were in the format of:

"xxxxx at xxxxx.xxx has been removed from xxxxxx."

All addresses are aol, yahoo or hotmail/live. However other users 
with those accounts weren't removed For this group I have two lists. 
Some (but not all) belong to both lists but their subscriptions to 
the other list was not removed.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Many thanks


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sun Mar 20 12:04:17 2016
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:04:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers being deleted
In-Reply-To: <3qSkB73vWszFr9m@mail.python.org>
References: <3qSkB73vWszFr9m@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <56EECA01.4070606@tuunq.com>

On 3/20/2016 8:44 AM, Rafael Salasnik wrote:
> On one of my lists 18 subscribers were deleted yesterday at the same time
> with no apparent reason. All the messages were in the format of:
>
> "xxxxx at xxxxx.xxx has been removed from xxxxxx."
>
> All addresses are aol, yahoo or hotmail/live.

What do the logs say? How do the times in bounce correlate with the others?

z!


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 20 13:18:43 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 10:18:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers being deleted
In-Reply-To: <3qSkB73vWszFr9m@mail.python.org>
References: <3qSkB73vWszFr9m@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <56EEDB73.10103@msapiro.net>

On 03/20/2016 08:44 AM, Rafael Salasnik wrote:
> On one of my lists 18 subscribers were deleted yesterday at the same
> time with no apparent reason. All the messages were in the format of:
> 
> "xxxxx at xxxxx.xxx has been removed from xxxxxx."


I'm guessing the time was 09:00. In any case, this was almost certainly
automatic removal by bounce processing after exhausting notices.
Mailman's bounce log will have more info.

Note that if you enable all the notices in the lists' Bounce processing
section, you won't be quite so surprised. In particular, if
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, you will get a notice including
the actual triggering bounce message when the member's delivery is first
disabled by bounce. With default settings, this is 3 weeks prior to the
eventual removal.


> All addresses are aol, yahoo or hotmail/live. However other users with
> those accounts weren't removed For this group I have two lists. Some
> (but not all) belong to both lists but their subscriptions to the other
> list was not removed.


It sounds like DMARC is the root issue. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/17891458>.


> Any thoughts/suggestions?


Suggestions depend on your Mailman version (in the case of DMARC). See
the above link.

Also, check the web admin membership list for members whose delivery is
disabled with a 'B'. These will be removed eventually and maybe should
be reenabled.

If you have shell access, Mailman's

bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce LISTNAME

will list the members with delivery disabled by bounce, and the script
at <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/reset_bounce.py> can help reenable
their delivery.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From coolpilotscorpio at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 21 03:15:40 2016
From: coolpilotscorpio at yahoo.com (scorpio 2005)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:15:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start a new thread" button doesn't work -
 Mailman3.0.2 Panel
In-Reply-To: <20160316100631.11c42875@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <20160316100631.11c42875@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1087118969.1343016.1458544540093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

My question is still not answered, can i do upgrade using gitlab individuals component to fix this issue. that is, Example hyperkitty version installed already using mailman bundler. but is it possible for me to do upgrade hyperkitty using gitlab individual component latest version will fix this issue? Please treat this urgent request and totally stagnant now.
 

    On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 5:06 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at list.org> wrote:
 

 On Mar 16, 2016, at 06:50 AM, scorpio 2005 via Mailman-Users wrote:

>Thanks for your reply. We are running mailman 3.0.2 using bundler and we are
>facing couple of issue with this version. We are stuck with this issues.? We
>are not sure which one is stable version in mailman to use it.

I suspect you will get better results running Mailman Core from the git master
branch.? While I am backporting fixes to the 3.0.x branch and releasing that
semi-regularly (e.g. 3.0.2) all new development, including the addition of new
features previously missing, happen only on master.? I expect that we'll
release 3.1 by Pycon 2016.

I know that bundler provides 3.0.2 right now, but it shouldn't be too
difficult to switch.? The few folks I know running Mailman 3 in production are
running Core off the git master branch.

Cheers,
-Barry


  

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 21 17:06:33 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:06:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start a new thread" button doesn't work -
 Mailman3.0.2 Panel
In-Reply-To: <1087118969.1343016.1458544540093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20160316100631.11c42875@subdivisions.wooz.org>
 <1087118969.1343016.1458544540093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56F06259.5060100@msapiro.net>

On 03/21/2016 12:15 AM, scorpio 2005 via Mailman-Users wrote:
> My question is still not answered, can i do upgrade using gitlab individuals component to fix this issue. that is, Example hyperkitty version installed already using mailman bundler. but is it possible for me to do upgrade hyperkitty using gitlab individual component latest version will fix this issue? Please treat this urgent request and totally stagnant now.


There is no easy answer to this. I am in the process of setting up a
production Mailman 3 instance at lists.mailman3.org to support a
mailman-users at mailman3.org list (not there yet). I'll outline what I did
which may help you, but it wasn't easy.

I created a system user 'mailman' and a /opt/mailman directory owned by
mailman.

I cloned mailman-bundler from gitlab into /opt/mailman/mailman-bundler.

I created no virtualenv. In the mailman-bundler directory as the
'mailman' user, I more or less followed
<http://mailman-bundler.readthedocs.org/en/latest/>.

I set buildout.cfg for 'production' and ran buildout, not in a venv.
I did 'sudo apt-get install ruby-sass' (this is on Ubuntu)
I installed psycopg2 and set config stuff for both Django and Mailman to
use PostgreSQL
I installed gunicorn
I configured postfix and nginx and set up mailman and gunicorn services,
installed the Django crontab, ran ./bin/mailman-post-update, etc. (not
necessarily in that order) and made a more or less working installation
with most of the software in /opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs and
/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4 as created by bundler.

I assume this is where you are now.

My first step towards upgrading was to clone the mailman master branch
from gitlab, activate the venv-3.4 virtualenv, run 'python3 setup.py
install' in the cloned branch directory with the venv installed. Then in
the venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages I removed the 3.0.2 'mailman'
directory and created a symlink mailman -> mailman-3.1.0-py3.4.egg/mailman.

This then worked to use the core mailman from the gitlab master branch.

This was still not what I wanted, so I then cloned the gitlab master
branches of mailman,  mailman-hyperkitty, hyperkitty, mailmanclient and
postorius and cd to each branch directory in turn and 'sudo command
setup.py install' where 'command is python for mailmanclient, hyperkitty
and postorius, and python3 for mailman and mailman-hyperkitty. This got
almost everything installed system wide (I.e. in
/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/ and
/usr/local/lib/python3.4/dist-packages/ instead of
/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs and
/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages.

The next step is the really tricky one. I verified that in the system
Python 3.4, I could import the top level module of every package in
/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages and
then removed them all.

I did the same with Python 2 and the /opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs
directory, but here, there were a few things I couldn't find in
/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/, so I left them in eggs/. One is
gunicorn-19.4.5-py2.7.egg, which I had originally installed with
buildout and decided to just leave. The others are
beautifulsoup4-4.4.1-py2.7.egg, mock-1.3.0-py2.7.egg,
collective.recipe.cmd-0.11-py2.7.egg, pbr-1.8.1-py2.7.egg,
djangorecipe-2.1.2-py2.7.egg, Whoosh-2.7.2-py2.7.egg,
funcsigs-0.4-py2.7.egg, z3c.recipe.filetemplate-2.2.0-py2.7.egg and
zc.recipe.egg-2.0.3-py2.7.egg. I think mock is just for testing and the
zc stuff is for buildout and others may be unneeded, but I left them all.

I also did 'sudo pip3 install psycopg2' because I think both Python 2
and Python 3 versions are required.

I then went through all the scripts in mailman-bundler/bin and removed
all the no longer present paths from the sys.path[0:0] = [ ... ] at the
beginning.

I may be forgetting something, but I think that was it.

I may have run into a missing import or two, but they were easy to fix.

The only other thing is you end up here with Django 1.9 only, and the
'mailman-web-django-admin runjobs daily' job runs into
"django.core.cache.get_cache was removed in Django 1.9 which breaks the
daily cache_cleanup job."  The fix is at
<https://github.com/django-extensions/django-extensions/pull/827/commits/67c8ae9f27bce7ae07123c1039a4a3080e9f00ae>.

I do not recommend this as an install from scratch procedure at all. I'm
still figuring that one out, but if you already have a working install
with bundler and want to upgrade it without discarding all the
infrastructure already built, this may work for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cnulk at scu.edu  Tue Mar 22 14:02:10 2016
From: cnulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:02:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
Message-ID: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>

Hello all,

We have come up a few times where a list was created incorrectly. 
Normally, we catch the mistake, delete the list, and recreate it 
properly.  However, there are times when the mistake is caught after 
having been in use.  So, the delete and recreate is not available to use.

I have a copy of Mark's clone_list command and it will allow us to 
rename lists.  Which is great and not a problem for me.  However, I am 
not the person normally involved with list creation, etc. Another group 
does it.  Normally through the web interface which works well for them.  
Unless a mistake is made then they have to use the command line tools.  
Again, not a problem for me but that group has very limited knowledge of 
linux/unix and Mailman.

I can easily train them to use the Mailman tools, however, ensuring they 
do the appropriate checks to avoid other problems is more difficult.  
Specifically, they can run the clone_list command but rebuilding the 
archives requires checking if the scrub_nondigest settings is No (this 
is explained in the clone_list help).

What I have done is modify the clone_list command to combine the 
renaming/cloning of a list and include an option to rebuild the 
archives.  However, the archives will not be rebuilt if the 
scrub_nondigest setting is Yes.

Below my message is a diff of my changes to clone_list.  While I try 
testing my changes on a test system, I would appreciate it if someone 
could take a look at my changes to ensure I am not off-base with my process.

Thank you,
Chris

--------------- My diff of clone_list -----------
--- clone_list    2016-03-18 10:28:14.000000000 -0700
+++ clone_list_scu    2016-03-22 10:19:43.000000000 -0700
@@ -109,6 +109,10 @@
                        dest='archives', action='store_true',
                        help="""\
  Clone the archives of the old list. The default is an empty archive.""")
+    parser.add_argument('-b', '--rebuild_archives',
+                      dest='rebuild_archives', action='store_true',
+                      help="""\
+Rebuild the archives of the new list. Requires -a/--archives.""")
      parser.add_argument('-e', '--extra_files',
                        dest='extra', action='store_true',
                        help="""\
@@ -186,6 +190,8 @@
              abort("%s doesn't appear to be a valid email address" % 
ns.owner)
      if ns.extra and not ns.clone_members:
          abort('-e/--extra_files requires -m/--members.')
+    if ns.rebuild_archives and not ns.archives:
+        abort('-b/--rebuild_archives requires -a/--archives.')
      if ns.verbose:
          print 'Getting %s list...' % ns.old_list
      ol = MailList(old_list, lock=False)
@@ -268,5 +274,29 @@
                     (ns.old_list, ns.new_list))
          copy_archives(old_list, new_list)

+    if ns.rebuild_archives:
+        if ns.verbose:
+            print 'Rebuilding %s archives...' % ns.new_list
+        if ol.scrub_nondigest:
+            abort('Scrub_nondigest is YES for %s.  WILL NOT REBUILD 
ARCHIVES.' % ns.old_list)
+        else:
+            archcmd = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), 'arch')
+            if not os.path.isfile(archcmd):
+                abort("""%s doesn't exist.
+Am I installed in Mailman's bin/ directory?""" % archcmd)
+            rbld = subprocess.Popen([archcmd,
+                                     '--wipe',
+                                     new_list
+                                    ],
+                                    stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
+                                    stderr=subprocess.PIPE
+                                   )
+            so, se = rbld.communicate()
+            if rbld.returncode:
+                abort('unable to rebuild archives for %s\n%s' % 
(ns.new_list, se))
+            # If there was stdout output, print it. It is probably aliases.
+            if so:
+                print so
+
  if __name__ == '__main__':
      main()


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 22 20:03:56 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:03:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>

On 03/22/2016 11:02 AM, Chris Nulk wrote:
> 
> Below my message is a diff of my changes to clone_list.  While I try
> testing my changes on a test system, I would appreciate it if someone
> could take a look at my changes to ensure I am not off-base with my
> process.


I have looked at it and it looks fine to me.

I will try adding it to my script and doing a bit of testing, but I
think it will be fine.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From hedy.dargere at spheerys.fr  Tue Mar 22 17:31:05 2016
From: hedy.dargere at spheerys.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedy_Darg=c3=a8re?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 22:31:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade to
 Jessie
Message-ID: <56F1B999.20101@spheerys.fr>

Hi,

I have a mailman server which was under Debian Wheezy, but after upgrade
to Jessie, I can't retrieve the web interface.

You have as attachment the following files :
- /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py files
- /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman
- /etc/apache2/apache2.conf


When I go to listes.np11.org, I have on the apache2 log :

        78.213.138.119 - - [22/Mar/2016:22:13:08 +0100] "GET /listinfo
HTTP/1.1" 404 503 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0"

Here the content of my www directory

    # tree /var/www
    /var/www
    |-- html
    |-- index.html
    `-- lists
        `-- index.html

    2 directories, 2 files





Idon't understand what I'm doing wrong !

Thanks for your help.
Hedy
-------------- next part --------------
# Sample configuration for Debian mailman with Apache

# We can find mailman here:
#ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
# And the public archives:
Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
# Logos:
Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/

# Use this if you don't want the "cgi-bin" component in your URL:
# In case you want to access mailman through a shorter URL you should enable
# this:
#ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
ScriptAlias / /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
# In this case you need to set the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in
# /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py to http://%s/mailman/ for the cookie
# authentication code to work.  Note that you need to change the base
# URL for all the already-created lists as well.

<Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/>
    Options FollowSymlinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>
<Directory /usr/share/images/mailman/>
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>


## The following describes how to configure mailman on
## a dedicated virtual host, courtesy Marco d'Itri.

# Add these lines in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py:
#DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.net'
#DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.net'
#DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'

#<VirtualHost *>
<VirtualHost *:80 *:443>
  ServerName listes.np11.org
  DocumentRoot /var/www/lists
  ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
  CustomLog /var/log/apache2/lists-access.log combined

  <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
    Options FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
  </Directory>




Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/
ScriptAlias /admin /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
ScriptAlias /admindb /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb
ScriptAlias /confirm /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm
ScriptAlias /create /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/create
ScriptAlias /edithtml /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/edithtml
ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
ScriptAlias /options /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/options
ScriptAlias /private /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/private
ScriptAlias /rmlist /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/rmlist
ScriptAlias /roster /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/roster
ScriptAlias /subscribe /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/subscribe
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
ScriptAlias / /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine on

# Redirect to SSL if available

    <IfModule mod_ssl.c>
      RewriteCond %{HTTPS} !^on$ [NC]
      RewriteRule . https://%{HTTP_HOST}%{REQUEST_URI}  [L]
    </IfModule>

# Redirect root access to mailman list

RewriteRule ^$ /listinfo [R=permanent,L]
RewriteRule ^/$ /listinfo [R=permanent,L]

</IfModule>


</VirtualHost>


From List.Admin at unh.edu  Wed Mar 23 10:56:37 2016
From: List.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List System Admin)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:56:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1603231038030.1199@conundrum.unh.edu>

CN> What I have done is modify the clone_list command to combine the
CN> renaming/cloning of a list and include an option to rebuild the
CN> archives.  However, the archives will not be rebuilt if the
CN> scrub_nondigest setting is Yes.

Sounds like a worthwhile enhancement.

MS> I will try adding it to my script and doing a bit of testing, but I
MS> think it will be fine.

Does this mean it will be included in the next release of MM v2?

As for getting off on the right foot for a new list, as part of our
new list application process...

http://lists.unh.edu/MM/NewList/

we have the new list owner pick an initial flavor for their list --
announce, discussion, moderated.  The backend uses one of three MM
list definition templates to apply the appropriate defaults for the
given list type.  I used this system for about 15 years with ListProc
and it has always worked well.  (I'd offer the share the code, but it
is in Perl.  It has extensive commenting, but would still probably
take a fair amount of grokking and hacking to get it to work at a new
site.  It was never designed to distributed.)

BTW -- if anyone goes through the application process above to take a
look, please use the list name 'bogus.list' so I can ignore/delete it.

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List System Admins
                                   Bill Costa, senior admin
                                   (603) 862-3056

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Mar 23 13:39:42 2016
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 17:39:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <20160323173942.GQ21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:02:10AM -0700, Chris Nulk wrote:
> I have a copy of Mark's clone_list command and it will allow us to
> rename lists.  Which is great and not a problem for me.  However, I
> am not the person normally involved with list creation, etc. Another
> group does it.  Normally through the web interface which works well
> for them.  Unless a mistake is made then they have to use the
> command line tools.  Again, not a problem for me but that group has
> very limited knowledge of linux/unix and Mailman.

If they can be assumed to use old list and new list as parameters
(although I could do a check for each?) 

    https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/6909815#file-rename-list 

may be useful

invoked as `rename-list old-list new-list`

-- 
"If the media object to a judgment or sentencing decision, 
 we suggest they focus their efforts on persuading the 
 Government to rectify the legal and policy framework."
    -- Lords' Select Committee on Constitution: Eleventh Report

From cnulk at scu.edu  Wed Mar 23 14:15:54 2016
From: cnulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 11:15:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56F2DD5A.8030406@scu.edu>

On 3/22/2016 5:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 03/22/2016 11:02 AM, Chris Nulk wrote:
>> Below my message is a diff of my changes to clone_list.  While I try
>> testing my changes on a test system, I would appreciate it if someone
>> could take a look at my changes to ensure I am not off-base with my
>> process.
>
> I have looked at it and it looks fine to me.
>
> I will try adding it to my script and doing a bit of testing, but I
> think it will be fine.
>
Thanks for looking at it Mark.

I have done limited testing (4 member list with a few archived messages) 
and it appears to be working.  The archives were moved and rebuilt.  
When I changed the scrub_nondigest setting to Yes, the list is renamed, 
archives moved, and an error message that the archives were not rebuilt.

Based on my testing, I noticed the error message for not rebuilding the 
archives is a bit terse.  For my target audience it needs to be a little 
more helpful.  So, I changed the lines:

        if ol.scrub_nondigest:
             abort('Scrub_nondigest is YES for %s.  WILL NOT REBUILD 
ARCHIVES.' % ns.old_list)
        else:

with

         if ol.scrub_nondigest:
             abort("""ARCHIVES NOT REBUILT.

Scrub_nondigest for %s is set to Yes.  To prevent losing any scrubbed
attachments, you will need to rebuild and fix the listname links in
the archives using another method than using bin/arch.
""" % ns.old_list)
         else:

I will do a little more testing on some larger lists but it looks promising.

Thank you again Mark,
Chris


From adam at amyl.org.uk  Wed Mar 23 15:06:15 2016
From: adam at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:06:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F2DF91.7030302@scu.edu>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>
 <20160323173942.GQ21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
 <56F2DF91.7030302@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <20160323190615.GR21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:25:21AM -0700, Chris Nulk wrote:
> On 3/23/2016 10:39 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> >     https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/6909815#file-rename-list
> >
> >may be useful
> >
> >invoked as `rename-list old-list new-list`
> >
> Thanks for the info Adam.  I was planning on creating a script to do
> the renaming like your script.   While looking at the Mailman FAQ's
> on renaming a list, I saw the link to Mark's clone_list.  To make it
> easier for the group that would be using the script, I added in the
> bits to also copy the archives and rebuild them.  I am just happy I
> don't have to write the bash script I was planning.  The process has
> eighteen steps including notifying the list owner (important), doing
> the work, verifying everything, and administrative work.  The new
> process using clone_list has seven steps most of which is
> administrative.

I wrote mine on the bits I needed; change the list name, swing
archives, quick exim redirect/alias entry?

-- 
"You can't say that, because it's true."
    (unnamed Russian censor, to Malcom Muggeridge, 1933)

From cnulk at scu.edu  Wed Mar 23 14:51:38 2016
From: cnulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 11:51:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1603231038030.1199@conundrum.unh.edu>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LRH.2.03.1603231038030.1199@conundrum.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <56F2E5BA.2080604@scu.edu>

Thanks for the info Bill.

I agree getting off on the right foot for a new list is important. We 
have a basic form users fill out which includes our taxonomy for placing 
the lists.  The message the group gets has all the information.  The 
problem is sometimes bits of the key taxonomy are left off.

Thanks,
Chris

On 3/23/2016 7:56 AM, The Mailing List System Admin wrote:
> CN> What I have done is modify the clone_list command to combine the
> CN> renaming/cloning of a list and include an option to rebuild the
> CN> archives.  However, the archives will not be rebuilt if the
> CN> scrub_nondigest setting is Yes.
>
> Sounds like a worthwhile enhancement.
>
> MS> I will try adding it to my script and doing a bit of testing, but I
> MS> think it will be fine.
>
> Does this mean it will be included in the next release of MM v2?
>
> As for getting off on the right foot for a new list, as part of our
> new list application process...
>
> http://lists.unh.edu/MM/NewList/
>
> we have the new list owner pick an initial flavor for their list --
> announce, discussion, moderated.  The backend uses one of three MM
> list definition templates to apply the appropriate defaults for the
> given list type.  I used this system for about 15 years with ListProc
> and it has always worked well.  (I'd offer the share the code, but it
> is in Perl.  It has extensive commenting, but would still probably
> take a fair amount of grokking and hacking to get it to work at a new
> site.  It was never designed to distributed.)
>
> BTW -- if anyone goes through the application process above to take a
> look, please use the list name 'bogus.list' so I can ignore/delete it.
>


From cnulk at scu.edu  Wed Mar 23 14:25:21 2016
From: cnulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 11:25:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <20160323173942.GQ21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu>
 <20160323173942.GQ21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <56F2DF91.7030302@scu.edu>

On 3/23/2016 10:39 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:02:10AM -0700, Chris Nulk wrote:
>> I have a copy of Mark's clone_list command and it will allow us to
>> rename lists.  Which is great and not a problem for me.  However, I
>> am not the person normally involved with list creation, etc. Another
>> group does it.  Normally through the web interface which works well
>> for them.  Unless a mistake is made then they have to use the
>> command line tools.  Again, not a problem for me but that group has
>> very limited knowledge of linux/unix and Mailman.
> If they can be assumed to use old list and new list as parameters
> (although I could do a check for each?)
>
>      https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/6909815#file-rename-list
>
> may be useful
>
> invoked as `rename-list old-list new-list`
>
Thanks for the info Adam.  I was planning on creating a script to do the 
renaming like your script.   While looking at the Mailman FAQ's on 
renaming a list, I saw the link to Mark's clone_list.  To make it easier 
for the group that would be using the script, I added in the bits to 
also copy the archives and rebuild them.  I am just happy I don't have 
to write the bash script I was planning.  The process has eighteen steps 
including notifying the list owner (important), doing the work, 
verifying everything, and administrative work.  The new process using 
clone_list has seven steps most of which is administrative.

Thanks again,
Chris

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 23 21:42:26 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:42:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F2DD5A.8030406@scu.edu>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
 <56F2DD5A.8030406@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <56F34602.2000106@msapiro.net>

On 03/23/2016 11:15 AM, Chris Nulk wrote:
> 
> I have done limited testing (4 member list with a few archived messages)
> and it appears to be working.  The archives were moved and rebuilt. 
> When I changed the scrub_nondigest setting to Yes, the list is renamed,
> archives moved, and an error message that the archives were not rebuilt.


Actually, is scrub_nondigest is Yes, bin/arch --wipe will work but there
are lots of caveats. In this case, bin/arch --wipe will just not remove
the 'attachments' directory. The issue is if scrub_nondigest was always
Yes for this list, that's the right thing to do, but it it was No at
some time in the past and changed to Yes, there are already two copies
of each attachment from the No period (one scrubbed from the archive and
one from the plain digest) and running bin/arch --wip will leave those
and create  third copies from the attachments in the mbox.

The more serious issue is if scrub_nondigest was Yes at some time in the
past and is now No, bin/arch --wipe will lose the attachments from the
Yes period.

In any case, for attachments scrubbed by scrub_nondigest, there are
links to them in the message bodies in the mbox and the list names in
those links will now be wrong, and bin/arch won't (can't) fix them.

This is why I chose in my script to kick the issue back to the user.


> Based on my testing, I noticed the error message for not rebuilding the
> archives is a bit terse.  For my target audience it needs to be a little
> more helpful.  So, I changed the lines:
> 
>        if ol.scrub_nondigest:
>             abort('Scrub_nondigest is YES for %s.  WILL NOT REBUILD
> ARCHIVES.' % ns.old_list)
>        else:
> 
> with
> 
>         if ol.scrub_nondigest:
>             abort("""ARCHIVES NOT REBUILT.
> 
> Scrub_nondigest for %s is set to Yes.  To prevent losing any scrubbed
> attachments, you will need to rebuild and fix the listname links in
> the archives using another method than using bin/arch.
> """ % ns.old_list)
>         else:


That much seems good, but as I note above it's a bit more complicated if
the scrub_nondigest setting has changed over time.


> I will do a little more testing on some larger lists but it looks
> promising.

OK

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 23 22:22:12 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:22:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade
 to Jessie
In-Reply-To: <56F1B999.20101@spheerys.fr>
References: <56F1B999.20101@spheerys.fr>
Message-ID: <56F34F54.8010009@msapiro.net>

On 03/22/2016 02:31 PM, Hedy Darg?re wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a mailman server which was under Debian Wheezy, but after upgrade
> to Jessie, I can't retrieve the web interface.


This is a Debian issue. Please see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.


> You have as attachment the following files :
> - /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py files
> - /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman
> - /etc/apache2/apache2.conf


Two of which were removed by This list's content filtering, however the
important one in this case is there.


> When I go to listes.np11.org, I have on the apache2 log :
> 
>         78.213.138.119 - - [22/Mar/2016:22:13:08 +0100] "GET /listinfo
> HTTP/1.1" 404 503 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0)
> Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0"
> 
> Here the content of my www directory

That's irrelevant. The Mailman web UI is accessed via ScriptAlias.


Attached Apache sites-enabled/mailman in part.

...
> <Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
...
> ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
...
> 
> <IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
> RewriteEngine on
> 
> # Redirect to SSL if available
> 
>     <IfModule mod_ssl.c>
>       RewriteCond %{HTTPS} !^on$ [NC]
>       RewriteRule . https://%{HTTP_HOST}%{REQUEST_URI}  [L]
>     </IfModule>
> 
> # Redirect root access to mailman list
> 
> RewriteRule ^$ /listinfo [R=permanent,L]
> RewriteRule ^/$ /listinfo [R=permanent,L]
> 
> </IfModule>



When you go to http://listes.np11.org/ the rewrite rules above rewrite
that to http://listes.np11.org/listinfo, and the

ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

says execute the CGI found at /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo, and
Apache says it isn't there.

Maybe it's a symlink (Debian does that) and the above

<Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>

needs

    Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks

instead of just

    Options ExecCGI

Also, Apache 2.4 if that's what you have needs

    Require all granted

instead of

    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all

in all the Directory blocks.

Finally, if this doesn't solve it for you, what's in Apache's error.log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From cnulk at scu.edu  Thu Mar 24 12:17:24 2016
From: cnulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:17:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F34602.2000106@msapiro.net>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
 <56F2DD5A.8030406@scu.edu> <56F34602.2000106@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56F41314.4020203@scu.edu>

On 3/23/2016 6:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 03/23/2016 11:15 AM, Chris Nulk wrote:
>> I have done limited testing (4 member list with a few archived messages)
>> and it appears to be working.  The archives were moved and rebuilt.
>> When I changed the scrub_nondigest setting to Yes, the list is renamed,
>> archives moved, and an error message that the archives were not rebuilt.
>
> Actually, is scrub_nondigest is Yes, bin/arch --wipe will work but there
> are lots of caveats. In this case, bin/arch --wipe will just not remove
> the 'attachments' directory. The issue is if scrub_nondigest was always
> Yes for this list, that's the right thing to do, but it it was No at
> some time in the past and changed to Yes, there are already two copies
> of each attachment from the No period (one scrubbed from the archive and
> one from the plain digest) and running bin/arch --wip will leave those
> and create  third copies from the attachments in the mbox.
>
> The more serious issue is if scrub_nondigest was Yes at some time in the
> past and is now No, bin/arch --wipe will lose the attachments from the
> Yes period.
>
> In any case, for attachments scrubbed by scrub_nondigest, there are
> links to them in the message bodies in the mbox and the list names in
> those links will now be wrong, and bin/arch won't (can't) fix them.
>
> This is why I chose in my script to kick the issue back to the user.

I figured it was a bit more complicated.  So, there is still a 
possibility of losing data if scrub_nondigest is No since the list 
doesn't maintain a history of previous settings.

>
>
>> Based on my testing, I noticed the error message for not rebuilding the
>> archives is a bit terse.  For my target audience it needs to be a little
>> more helpful.  So, I changed the lines:
>>
>>         if ol.scrub_nondigest:
>>              abort('Scrub_nondigest is YES for %s.  WILL NOT REBUILD
>> ARCHIVES.' % ns.old_list)
>>         else:
>>
>> with
>>
>>          if ol.scrub_nondigest:
>>              abort("""ARCHIVES NOT REBUILT.
>>
>> Scrub_nondigest for %s is set to Yes.  To prevent losing any scrubbed
>> attachments, you will need to rebuild and fix the listname links in
>> the archives using another method than using bin/arch.
>> """ % ns.old_list)
>>          else:
>
> That much seems good, but as I note above it's a bit more complicated if
> the scrub_nondigest setting has changed over time.

I did a little searching around our lists.  It seems the attachments 
directory is always created and populated whether or not scrub_nondigest 
was ever set to Yes.  So I can't really use the existence of the 
attachments directory or the lack of it being populated as a check for 
if scrub_nondigest was ever set to Yes.

Is the anything that can be checked for that would indicate 
scrub_nondigest was Yes at any point in the past?  Obviously, if it is 
currently Yes it doesn't matter.

Lacking the ability to check,  I suppose a warning should be generated 
prior to running the bin/arch.  In addition, the '-b/--rebuild_archives' 
option should default to false unless there is a positive indication the 
user wants to run it ('-b y / --rebuild_archives=Yes').  The default for 
the rebuild_archives option would be No.

If there is any way to tell if scrub_nondigest has been set to Yes in 
the list's past, please let me know.  I am going to add the warning and 
try making the changes to the rebuild_archives options. I will post the 
diff from the Mark's original clone_list.

Thanks Mark,
Chris

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 24 14:49:53 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:49:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F41314.4020203@scu.edu>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
 <56F2DD5A.8030406@scu.edu> <56F34602.2000106@msapiro.net>
 <56F41314.4020203@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <56F436D1.4090302@msapiro.net>

On 03/24/2016 09:17 AM, Chris Nulk wrote:
> 
> I did a little searching around our lists.  It seems the attachments
> directory is always created and populated whether or not scrub_nondigest
> was ever set to Yes.  So I can't really use the existence of the
> attachments directory or the lack of it being populated as a check for
> if scrub_nondigest was ever set to Yes.


No, but here's what you can look for.

If scrub_nondigest is True, the message will be scrubbed during
processing before any delivery and before the message is added to the
cumulative mbox. Thus there will be one copy of each scrubbed attachment
in the attachments directory and a link in the message body and the
scrubbed attachment will not be in the cumulative mbox.

If scrub_nondigest is False, archiving will scrub the message and any
scrubbed attachments will be in the attachments directory and replaced
by links in the archived message, and the attachment will be in the
cumulative mbox. Additionally, if the list is digestable, digest
processing will also scrub the message for the plain text digest even if
there are no plain digest subscribers or even no MIME digest subscribers
either. This will create second copies of each attachment in the
attachments directory, but not until the digest is actually created.


> Is the anything that can be checked for that would indicate
> scrub_nondigest was Yes at any point in the past?  Obviously, if it is
> currently Yes it doesn't matter.


Not 100% reliably, but if there are periods of time when the attachments
(sub-)directories contain two copies of each attachment, you know
scrub_nondigest was No at that point, and the absence of any duplicates
may say scrub_nondigest was Yes at that point or it may say that this
archive was imported or previously processed with bin/arch --wipe which
will not replace the duplicate attachments.


> Lacking the ability to check,  I suppose a warning should be generated
> prior to running the bin/arch.  In addition, the '-b/--rebuild_archives'
> option should default to false unless there is a positive indication the
> user wants to run it ('-b y / --rebuild_archives=Yes').  The default for
> the rebuild_archives option would be No.
> 
> If there is any way to tell if scrub_nondigest has been set to Yes in
> the list's past, please let me know.  I am going to add the warning and
> try making the changes to the rebuild_archives options. I will post the
> diff from the Mark's original clone_list.


It just occurred to me that there is a way. Check the lists cumulative
mbox for messages which are single part text/plain and have content
somewhere in the body matching the regexp

'\nAn? .* was scrubbed\.\.\.\n'

This would indicate the message was scrubbed before being archived (or
possibly is a message quoting something from a plain text digest,
there's always a gotcha) and would probably mean that at the time of
that message, scrub_nondigest was Yes.

It's actually OK to run bin/arch --wipe if scrub_nondigest is Yes. The
two 'bad' things that happen here are if scrub_nondigest was No in the
past, there will be extra, unreferenced copies of attachments, and for
the periods when scrub_nondigest was Yes, the links to scrubbed
attachments will still have the wrong listname.

The loss of data problem is if scrub_nondigest is No and was Yes in the
past, the attachments that were scrubbed when it was Yes will be lost.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From hedy.dargere at spheerys.fr  Thu Mar 24 09:18:12 2016
From: hedy.dargere at spheerys.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedy_Darg=c3=a8re?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 14:18:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade
 to Jessie
In-Reply-To: <56F1B999.20101@spheerys.fr>
References: <56F1B999.20101@spheerys.fr>
Message-ID: <56F3E914.9000002@spheerys.fr>

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your answer :)

I followed your suggestions but nothing change.
I always have in my apache log :

78.xx.yyy.zzz - - [24/Mar/2016:14:17:36 +0100] "GET /listinfo HTTP/1.1" 404 504 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0"


Here my file /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman :

####################################
####################################

# Sample configuration for Debian mailman with Apache

# We can find mailman here:
#ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
# And the public archives:
Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
# Logos:
Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/

# Use this if you don't want the "cgi-bin" component in your URL:
# In case you want to access mailman through a shorter URL you should enable
# this:
#ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
ScriptAlias / /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
# In this case you need to set the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in
# /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py to http://%s/mailman/ for the cookie
# authentication code to work.  Note that you need to change the base
# URL for all the already-created lists as well.

<Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI  FollowSymLinks
    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
#    Order allow,deny
#    Allow from all
    Require all granted
</Directory>
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/>
    Options FollowSymlinks
    AllowOverride None
#    Order allow,deny
#    Allow from all
    Require all granted
</Directory>
<Directory /usr/share/images/mailman/>
    AllowOverride None
#    Order allow,deny
#    Allow from all
    Require all granted
</Directory>


## The following describes how to configure mailman on
## a dedicated virtual host, courtesy Marco d'Itri.

# Add these lines in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py:
#DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.net'
#DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.net'
#DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'

#<VirtualHost *>
<VirtualHost *:80 *:443>
  ServerName listes.np11.org
  DocumentRoot /var/www/lists
  ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
  CustomLog /var/log/apache2/lists-access.log combined

  <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
    Options FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
  </Directory>




Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/
ScriptAlias /admin /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
ScriptAlias /admindb /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb
ScriptAlias /confirm /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm
ScriptAlias /create /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/create
ScriptAlias /edithtml /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/edithtml
ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
ScriptAlias /options /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/options
ScriptAlias /private /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/private
ScriptAlias /rmlist /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/rmlist
ScriptAlias /roster /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/roster
ScriptAlias /subscribe /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/subscribe
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
ScriptAlias / /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine on

# Redirect to SSL if available

    <IfModule mod_ssl.c>
      RewriteCond %{HTTPS} !^on$ [NC]
      RewriteRule . https://%{HTTP_HOST}%{REQUEST_URI}  [L]
    </IfModule>

# Redirect root access to mailman list

RewriteRule ^$ /listinfo [R=permanent,L]
RewriteRule ^/$ /listinfo [R=permanent,L]

</IfModule>


</VirtualHost>

####################################
####################################




And now my /etc/apache2/apache2.conf     :


 
####################################
####################################
# This is the main Apache server configuration file.  It contains the
# configuration directives that give the server its instructions.
# See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/ for detailed information about
# the directives and /usr/share/doc/apache2/README.Debian about Debian specific
# hints.
#
#
# Summary of how the Apache 2 configuration works in Debian:
# The Apache 2 web server configuration in Debian is quite different to
# upstream's suggested way to configure the web server. This is because Debian's
# default Apache2 installation attempts to make adding and removing modules,
# virtual hosts, and extra configuration directives as flexible as possible, in
# order to make automating the changes and administering the server as easy as
# possible.

# It is split into several files forming the configuration hierarchy outlined
# below, all located in the /etc/apache2/ directory:
#
#	/etc/apache2/
#	|-- apache2.conf
#	|	`--  ports.conf
#	|-- mods-enabled
#	|	|-- *.load
#	|	`-- *.conf
#	|-- conf-enabled
#	|	`-- *.conf
# 	`-- sites-enabled
#	 	`-- *.conf
#
#
# * apache2.conf is the main configuration file (this file). It puts the pieces
#   together by including all remaining configuration files when starting up the
#   web server.
#
# * ports.conf is always included from the main configuration file. It is
#   supposed to determine listening ports for incoming connections which can be
#   customized anytime.
#
# * Configuration files in the mods-enabled/, conf-enabled/ and sites-enabled/
#   directories contain particular configuration snippets which manage modules,
#   global configuration fragments, or virtual host configurations,
#   respectively.
#
#   They are activated by symlinking available configuration files from their
#   respective *-available/ counterparts. These should be managed by using our
#   helpers a2enmod/a2dismod, a2ensite/a2dissite and a2enconf/a2disconf. See
#   their respective man pages for detailed information.
#
# * The binary is called apache2. Due to the use of environment variables, in
#   the default configuration, apache2 needs to be started/stopped with
#   /etc/init.d/apache2 or apache2ctl. Calling /usr/bin/apache2 directly will not
#   work with the default configuration.


# Global configuration
#

#
# ServerRoot: The top of the directory tree under which the server's
# configuration, error, and log files are kept.
#
# NOTE!  If you intend to place this on an NFS (or otherwise network)
# mounted filesystem then please read the Mutex documentation (available
# at <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html#mutex>);
# you will save yourself a lot of trouble.
#
# Do NOT add a slash at the end of the directory path.
#
#ServerRoot "/etc/apache2"

#
# The accept serialization lock file MUST BE STORED ON A LOCAL DISK.
#
Mutex file:${APACHE_LOCK_DIR} default

#
# PidFile: The file in which the server should record its process
# identification number when it starts.
# This needs to be set in /etc/apache2/envvars
#
PidFile ${APACHE_PID_FILE}

#
# Timeout: The number of seconds before receives and sends time out.
#
Timeout 300

#
# KeepAlive: Whether or not to allow persistent connections (more than
# one request per connection). Set to "Off" to deactivate.
#
KeepAlive On

#
# MaxKeepAliveRequests: The maximum number of requests to allow
# during a persistent connection. Set to 0 to allow an unlimited amount.
# We recommend you leave this number high, for maximum performance.
#
MaxKeepAliveRequests 100

#
# KeepAliveTimeout: Number of seconds to wait for the next request from the
# same client on the same connection.
#
KeepAliveTimeout 5


# These need to be set in /etc/apache2/envvars
User ${APACHE_RUN_USER}
Group ${APACHE_RUN_GROUP}

#
# HostnameLookups: Log the names of clients or just their IP addresses
# e.g., www.apache.org (on) or 204.62.129.132 (off).
# The default is off because it'd be overall better for the net if people
# had to knowingly turn this feature on, since enabling it means that
# each client request will result in AT LEAST one lookup request to the
# nameserver.
#
HostnameLookups Off

# ErrorLog: The location of the error log file.
# If you do not specify an ErrorLog directive within a <VirtualHost>
# container, error messages relating to that virtual host will be
# logged here.  If you *do* define an error logfile for a <VirtualHost>
# container, that host's errors will be logged there and not here.
#
ErrorLog ${APACHE_LOG_DIR}/error.log

#
# LogLevel: Control the severity of messages logged to the error_log.
# Available values: trace8, ..., trace1, debug, info, notice, warn,
# error, crit, alert, emerg.
# It is also possible to configure the log level for particular modules, e.g.
# "LogLevel info ssl:warn"
#
LogLevel warn

# Include module configuration:
IncludeOptional mods-enabled/*.load
IncludeOptional mods-enabled/*.conf

# Include list of ports to listen on
Include ports.conf


# Sets the default security model of the Apache2 HTTPD server. It does
# not allow access to the root filesystem outside of /usr/share and /var/www.
# The former is used by web applications packaged in Debian,
# the latter may be used for local directories served by the web server. If
# your system is serving content from a sub-directory in /srv you must allow
# access here, or in any related virtual host.
<Directory />
	Options FollowSymLinks
	AllowOverride None
	Require all denied
</Directory>

<Directory /usr/share>
	AllowOverride None
	Require all granted
</Directory>

<Directory /var/www/>
	Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
	AllowOverride None
	Require all granted
</Directory>

#<Directory /srv/>
#	Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
#	AllowOverride None
#	Require all granted
#</Directory>




# AccessFileName: The name of the file to look for in each directory
# for additional configuration directives.  See also the AllowOverride
# directive.
#
AccessFileName .htaccess

#
# The following lines prevent .htaccess and .htpasswd files from being
# viewed by Web clients.
#
<FilesMatch "^\.ht">
	Require all denied
</FilesMatch>


#
# The following directives define some format nicknames for use with
# a CustomLog directive.
#
# These deviate from the Common Log Format definitions in that they use %O
# (the actual bytes sent including headers) instead of %b (the size of the
# requested file), because the latter makes it impossible to detect partial
# requests.
#
# Note that the use of %{X-Forwarded-For}i instead of %h is not recommended.
# Use mod_remoteip instead.
#
LogFormat "%v:%p %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %O \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\"" vhost_combined
LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %O \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\"" combined
LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %O" common
LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer
LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent

# Include of directories ignores editors' and dpkg's backup files,
# see README.Debian for details.

# Include generic snippets of statements
IncludeOptional conf-enabled/*.conf

# Include the virtual host configurations:
IncludeOptional sites-enabled/*.conf

# vim: syntax=apache ts=4 sw=4 sts=4 sr noet


####################################
####################################

And finally my /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py :

####################################
####################################
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software 
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
# 02110-1301 USA


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
#DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'listes.np11.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'listes.np11.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'fr'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian or
# /usr/share/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains (but not
# postfix-to-mailman.py), but be sure to see
# /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
MTA='Postfix'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 25 02:18:41 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 23:18:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade
 to Jessie
In-Reply-To: <56F3E914.9000002@spheerys.fr>
References: <56F1B999.20101@spheerys.fr> <56F3E914.9000002@spheerys.fr>
Message-ID: <56F4D841.3070308@msapiro.net>

On 03/24/2016 06:18 AM, Hedy Darg?re wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thank you for your answer :)
> 
> I followed your suggestions but nothing change.
> I always have in my apache log :
> 
> 78.xx.yyy.zzz - - [24/Mar/2016:14:17:36 +0100] "GET /listinfo HTTP/1.1" 404 504 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0"


And what is in Apache's error log at /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
corresponding to this 404 error?


> Here my file /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman :
> 
...
> #<VirtualHost *>
> <VirtualHost *:80 *:443>
>   ServerName listes.np11.org
>   DocumentRoot /var/www/lists
>   ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
>   CustomLog /var/log/apache2/lists-access.log combined
> 
...
> ScriptAlias /listinfo /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo


What are the results of

ls -la /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From hedy.dargere at spheerys.fr  Fri Mar 25 02:54:54 2016
From: hedy.dargere at spheerys.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedy_Darg=c3=a8re?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:54:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade
 to Jessie
In-Reply-To: <56F4E07A.1000800@spheerys.fr>
References: <56F4E07A.1000800@spheerys.fr>
Message-ID: <56F4E0BE.5090905@spheerys.fr>


>>
>> I followed your suggestions but nothing change.
>> I always have in my apache log :
>>
>> 78.xx.yyy.zzz - - [24/Mar/2016:14:17:36 +0100] "GET /listinfo HTTP/1.1" 404 504 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0"
>
> And what is in Apache's error log at /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
> corresponding to this 404 error?


This file is empty... such as lists-access.log...



> What are the results of ls -la /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/ 


~ ? ls -la /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
total 140
drwxr-xr-x 2 root list  4096 mars  22 20:26 .
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root  4096 mars  19  2015 ..
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 admin
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 admindb
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 confirm
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 create
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 edithtml
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 listinfo
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 options
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 private
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 rmlist
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 roster
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 10200 avril  6  2015 subscribe





From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 25 03:41:24 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 00:41:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade
 to Jessie
In-Reply-To: <56F4E0BE.5090905@spheerys.fr>
References: <56F4E07A.1000800@spheerys.fr> <56F4E0BE.5090905@spheerys.fr>
Message-ID: <56F4EBA4.2060204@msapiro.net>

On 03/24/2016 11:54 PM, Hedy Darg?re wrote:
> 
>>>
>>> I followed your suggestions but nothing change.
>>> I always have in my apache log :
>>>
>>> 78.xx.yyy.zzz - - [24/Mar/2016:14:17:36 +0100] "GET /listinfo HTTP/1.1" 404 504 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0"
>>
>> And what is in Apache's error log at /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log
>> corresponding to this 404 error?
> 
> 
> This file is empty... such as lists-access.log...

Funny, I would expect it to be in

  ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/lists-error.log

per your <VirtualHost> block in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman

But then, the fact that its not there indicates your
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman is not used which is actually not
surprising as your apache2.conf says

# Include the virtual host configurations:
IncludeOptional sites-enabled/*.conf

which means it needs to be named
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman.conf, not
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mailman

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Fri Mar 25 06:17:22 2016
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:17:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade
 to Jessie
In-Reply-To: <56F4E0BE.5090905@spheerys.fr>
References: <56F4E07A.1000800@spheerys.fr> <56F4E0BE.5090905@spheerys.fr>
Message-ID: <HE1PR04MB12442EBEDECB6DEE2DC983CAC5830@HE1PR04MB1244.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

In the upgrade to Jessie you got Apache 2.4, so you need to enable the CGI support by running a2enmod cgi then restart Apache.

Hope this helps,
Andrew.

From viritrilbia at gmail.com  Fri Mar 25 12:17:25 2016
From: viritrilbia at gmail.com (Michael Shulman)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:17:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam through my mailman?
Message-ID: <CAOvivQy_yjX8F-YR8_6HiNthez-AD9b95O2SfWwSkcqkdkXs-g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am receiving spam to my list-owner address that appears to be sent
from the same list-owner address.  Here are some of the headers,
anonymized a bit (google is there because my email is forwarded to my
gmail address).

Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of
mailman-bounces at my.server.com designates MY.IP.ADDR.ESS as permitted
sender) client-ip=MY.IP.ADDR.ESS;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@my.server.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of mailman-bounces at my.server.com
designates MY.IP.ADDR.ESS as permitted sender)
smtp.mailfrom=mailman-bounces at my.server.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=my.server.com; s=mcmaildk;
    h=Sender:Content-Type:Date:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From;
bh=(STUFF)
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=www.my.server.com)
    by my.server.com with esmtp (Exim 4.84)
    (envelope-from <mailman-bounces at my.server.com>)
    id 1ajRhe-0006bB-4A
    for listmaster at my.server.com; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:23:06 -0500
Received: from [SPAM.IP.ADDR.ESS] (helo=spammer.domain.com)
 by my.server.com with esmtp (Exim 4.84)
 (envelope-from <mylist-owner at my.server.com>) id 1ajRhW-0006b2-Jk
 for mylist-owner at my.server.com; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:23:00 -0500
From: A. Spammer <mylist-owner at my.server.com>
To: mylist-owner <mylist-owner at my.server.com>
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at my.server.com
Sender: "Mylist" <mailman-bounces at my.server.com>

The SPF and DKIM passes make it seem like this spam is actually being
sent from my server, not just from somewhere else with a spoofed
sender.  Is there some way that my mailman may be misconfigured that
could be allowing the spammer to spam through it in this way?  Or has
my server been hacked?

Thanks!!
Mike

From bsam at passap.ru  Fri Mar 25 13:23:27 2016
From: bsam at passap.ru (Boris Samorodov)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 20:23:27 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
Message-ID: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru>

Hi All!

I've got a mailman-2.1.15 list which is BCC'ed by an original e-mail
message. Is it possible to get/view the original recipient at WEBUI
(along with Subject and Sender)?

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 25 14:26:39 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:26:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam through my mailman?
In-Reply-To: <CAOvivQy_yjX8F-YR8_6HiNthez-AD9b95O2SfWwSkcqkdkXs-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOvivQy_yjX8F-YR8_6HiNthez-AD9b95O2SfWwSkcqkdkXs-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F582DF.6050808@msapiro.net>

On 03/25/2016 09:17 AM, Michael Shulman wrote:

> 
> The SPF and DKIM passes make it seem like this spam is actually being
> sent from my server, not just from somewhere else with a spoofed
> sender.  Is there some way that my mailman may be misconfigured that
> could be allowing the spammer to spam through it in this way?  Or has
> my server been hacked?


Neither.

The mail was sent to "mylist-owner <mylist-owner at my.server.com>". It was
delivered to Mailman for mylist-owner. Mailman then resent it to the
owner address <listmaster at my.server.com> and the outgoing MTA DKIM
signed it.

This has nothing to do with the fact that the original mail spoofed
<mylist-owner at my.server.com> as the From: or the envelope sender of the
original, except that depending on your DKIM signing rules you may have
not DKIM signed it if it was From: a different domain.

It passes SPF because it came to google from your server and it passes
DKIM because you signed it on the way out. It would have been exactly
the same if it had been sent to an alias that forwards directly to your
google address. I.e. had it been sent to <listmaster at my.server.com>
instead of <mylist-owner at my.server.com>, it would have been forwarded
and signed in exactly the same way without having gone through Mailman
at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 25 14:34:39 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:34:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru>
Message-ID: <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>

On 03/25/2016 10:23 AM, Boris Samorodov wrote:
> 
> I've got a mailman-2.1.15 list which is BCC'ed by an original e-mail
> message. Is it possible to get/view the original recipient at WEBUI
> (along with Subject and Sender)?


I don't understand. If you are asking is it possible to find out what
was in the original Bcc: list from the received message, the answer is
No except you can know from the Received: headers how it got to you, but
not to any other potential recipient.

If you are asking about the Mailman web admindb UI, you can see the
headers of the message there if you click one of the links to show the
message detail, but you already know that the recipient of the message
was the list or it wouldn't be there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bsam at passap.ru  Fri Mar 25 15:47:58 2016
From: bsam at passap.ru (Boris Samorodov)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 22:47:58 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru>

25.03.16 21:34, Mark Sapiro ?????:

> I don't understand. If you are asking is it possible to find out what
> was in the original Bcc: list from the received message, the answer is
> No except you can know from the Received: headers how it got to you, but
> not to any other potential recipient.
> 
> If you are asking about the Mailman web admindb UI, you can see the
> headers of the message there if you click one of the links to show the
> message detail, but you already know that the recipient of the message
> was the list or it wouldn't be there.

Here is an example. Original e-mail:
...
From: sender at domain.tld
To: recipient at another.tld    [*]
BCC: list at maillist.tld
Subject: E-mail subject

<Email text here>
...

Here is a WEBUI:
...
E-mail subject
Sender data here
Recipient data here   [*]   <-- I need this data at WEBUI
<other stuff>
...

Hope I'm more clear now.

Thank you.

-- 
WBR, bsam

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 25 16:13:13 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:13:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
 <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru>
Message-ID: <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>

On 03/25/2016 12:47 PM, Boris Samorodov wrote:
> 
> Here is an example. Original e-mail:
> ...
> From: sender at domain.tld
> To: recipient at another.tld    [*]
> BCC: list at maillist.tld
> Subject: E-mail subject
> 
> <Email text here>
> ...
> 
> Here is a WEBUI:
> ...
> E-mail subject
> Sender data here
> Recipient data here   [*]   <-- I need this data at WEBUI


If you click on the details link in the web UI, you can see the headers
of the message which includes that. Showing all the To: and Cc:
recipients (potentially a long list) on the summary page would add a lot
of clutter. The information is available in the detailed listing of the
held message. Granted it's another click to get it, but it is available
if you need it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bsam at passap.ru  Fri Mar 25 16:30:05 2016
From: bsam at passap.ru (Boris Samorodov)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 23:30:05 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
 <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru> <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56F59FCD.2020607@passap.ru>

25.03.16 23:13, Mark Sapiro ?????:
> On 03/25/2016 12:47 PM, Boris Samorodov wrote:
>>
>> Here is an example. Original e-mail:
>> ...
>> From: sender at domain.tld
>> To: recipient at another.tld    [*]
>> BCC: list at maillist.tld
>> Subject: E-mail subject
>>
>> <Email text here>
>> ...
>>
>> Here is a WEBUI:
>> ...
>> E-mail subject
>> Sender data here
>> Recipient data here   [*]   <-- I need this data at WEBUI
> 
> If you click on the details link in the web UI, you can see the headers
> of the message which includes that. Showing all the To: and Cc:
> recipients (potentially a long list) on the summary page would add a lot
> of clutter. The information is available in the detailed listing of the
> held message. Granted it's another click to get it, but it is available
> if you need it.

Sure, one click is acceptable. But I'm not sure what is "the details"
link you are talking about?

Just to be sure, I checked up your e-mail:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-March/080623.html

And there is no details link. My webui site looks the same. Should the
detailed link be enabled somewhere?

Thank you.
-- 
WBR, bsam

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 25 17:05:41 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F59FCD.2020607@passap.ru>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
 <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru> <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>
 <56F59FCD.2020607@passap.ru>
Message-ID: <56F5A825.7030806@msapiro.net>

On 03/25/2016 01:30 PM, Boris Samorodov wrote:
> 
> And there is no details link. My webui site looks the same. Should the
> detailed link be enabled somewhere?

The web admindb summary page has a Held Messages table. The right hand
column in this table has entries like:

Click on the message number to view the individual message, or you can
view all messages from user at example.com
  	
[1]  Subject:   ...
     Size:      ...
     Reason:    ...
     Received:  ...

[2]  Subject:   ...
     Size:      ...
     Reason:    ...
     Received:  ...

Each number ([1] and [2] in this example) is a link to the details page
for that message. "view all messages from user at example.com" is a link to
a page that displays the details for all the messages from that sender.

Most of the possible moderator actions are also available on that page
including the ability to provide a reject reason for a rejection.

Do you not see that?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From bsam at passap.ru  Sat Mar 26 06:42:51 2016
From: bsam at passap.ru (Boris Samorodov)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 13:42:51 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F5A825.7030806@msapiro.net>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
 <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru> <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>
 <56F59FCD.2020607@passap.ru> <56F5A825.7030806@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56F667AB.6020900@passap.ru>

26.03.16 00:05, Mark Sapiro ?????:

> The web admindb summary page has a Held Messages table.

Seems I misused the terminology. By "webui" I meant ordinary user
interface, i.e. when a user looks though an archive. Sorry.

Is it possible to show original recipient(s) at user web interface?
(In my case there is only a couple of them actually)

Thank you.

-- 
WBR, bsam

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 26 12:55:52 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 09:55:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F667AB.6020900@passap.ru>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
 <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru> <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>
 <56F59FCD.2020607@passap.ru> <56F5A825.7030806@msapiro.net>
 <56F667AB.6020900@passap.ru>
Message-ID: <56F6BF18.3050208@msapiro.net>

On 03/26/2016 03:42 AM, Boris Samorodov wrote:
> 
> Seems I misused the terminology. By "webui" I meant ordinary user
> interface, i.e. when a user looks though an archive. Sorry.
> 
> Is it possible to show original recipient(s) at user web interface?
> (In my case there is only a couple of them actually)


If you are talking about the built-in pipermail archiver for Mailman
2.1, the answer is No[1]. The individual post HTML pages show only the
sender. The periodic .txt(.gz) files do not have To: or Cc: headers.

This is true for all posts in the archive regardless of whether the list
was or was not explicitly addressed. I.e. for any post in the pipermail
archive it is not possible to see the explicit addressees of that message.

There are no plans to change that.

If you are talking about some other, external archive, that's up to the
archiver which is not under our control.

[1] It is possible to download the entire cumulative archive mbox via a
URL like http://example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox
and that mbox does have the original To: and Cc: headers of the
messages, but it is the entire archive and not a practical way to see
these headers for a specific message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From willi.uebelherr at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 13:08:15 2016
From: willi.uebelherr at gmail.com (willi uebelherr)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 12:38:15 -0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
Message-ID: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com>


Dear friends,

one question. If the Sender-field exist and mailman create a new 
Sender-field-line, then he have to delete the old one, or not?

And maybe, this is true also for all other header fields, what mailman 
create?

many greetings, willi
St. Elena de Uairen, Venezuela


From bsam at passap.ru  Sun Mar 27 17:20:12 2016
From: bsam at passap.ru (Boris Samorodov)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 00:20:12 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient field at webui
In-Reply-To: <56F6BF18.3050208@msapiro.net>
References: <56F5740F.3020905@passap.ru> <56F584BF.9090402@msapiro.net>
 <56F595EE.2040809@passap.ru> <56F59BD9.4080106@msapiro.net>
 <56F59FCD.2020607@passap.ru> <56F5A825.7030806@msapiro.net>
 <56F667AB.6020900@passap.ru> <56F6BF18.3050208@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56F84E8C.5040701@passap.ru>

26.03.16 19:55, Mark Sapiro ?????:
> On 03/26/2016 03:42 AM, Boris Samorodov wrote:
>>
>> Seems I misused the terminology. By "webui" I meant ordinary user
>> interface, i.e. when a user looks though an archive. Sorry.
>>
>> Is it possible to show original recipient(s) at user web interface?
>> (In my case there is only a couple of them actually)
> 
> If you are talking about the built-in pipermail archiver for Mailman
> 2.1, the answer is No[1]. The individual post HTML pages show only the
> sender. The periodic .txt(.gz) files do not have To: or Cc: headers.

Ok, I suspected that.

> This is true for all posts in the archive regardless of whether the list
> was or was not explicitly addressed. I.e. for any post in the pipermail
> archive it is not possible to see the explicit addressees of that message.
> 
> There are no plans to change that.

The rationale for this behaviour is clear.

> If you are talking about some other, external archive, that's up to the
> archiver which is not under our control.
> 
> [1] It is possible to download the entire cumulative archive mbox via a
> URL like http://example.com/mailman/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox
> and that mbox does have the original To: and Cc: headers of the
> messages, but it is the entire archive and not a practical way to see
> these headers for a specific message.

I know about mbox files, but it's a bit overkill for my task. :-)

Thank you for you help and cooperation.

-- 
WBR, bsam

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 28 11:23:35 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 08:23:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
In-Reply-To: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com>
References: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>

On 3/27/16 10:08 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
> 
> one question. If the Sender-field exist and mailman create a new
> Sender-field-line, then he have to delete the old one, or not?


Yes, Mailman deletes any existing Sender: headers before adding one.


> And maybe, this is true also for all other header fields, what mailman
> create?


Some yes and some no. E.g. Errors-To: will be replaced. Depending on
list settings, a new, merged, Reply-To: or Cc: will be created and the
original replaced, but headers like X-BeenThere: X-Mailman-Version:,
etc., will just be added.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar 29 13:58:03 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 02:58:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
In-Reply-To: <56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>
References: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com>
	<56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22266.49707.745746.442716@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Some yes and some no.

As Mark knows, the general rule is that with a few deliberate,
documented, optional cases Mailman tries to strictly respect RFC
constraints for fields defined in an RFC.  We're pretty good about
that; if you're not cranky RFC pedant like me, don't bother checking.
But if you notice something that doesn't work as the RFCs specify,
consider it a bug and notify us (especially in Mailman 3!)  (Do check
that it's not an optional behavior -- Reply-To munging and From
munging are non-conforming but options have been provided because
there is "sufficient reason" for doing so.  If you don't like it,
you'll have to take it up with the list owner, not with us.)

 > Depending on list settings, a new, merged, Reply-To: or Cc: will be
 > created and the original replaced,

Also From may be munged to disable DMARC, depending on list settings
and possibly a DNS check for DMARC policy.

 > but headers like X-BeenThere: X-Mailman-Version:, etc., will just
 > be added.

BTW, in my (recent) experience Mailman 2 does not handle List-Post and
List-ID correctly.  It replaces them, but List-Post should be left
alone, and a new List-ID field should be added when there is already
one, and if the existing List-ID is not a parent list, then it should
be removed.  https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/217 for Mailman
3.

@Mark: I don't think this is worth fixing for Mailman 2, but if you
want to have it fixed, or just want an issue to document the lack of
conformance that you can close, let me know and I'll file one.  If you
want help on a fix, I'll be happy to work with you (but not until late
April).


From cnulk at scu.edu  Tue Mar 29 14:51:38 2016
From: cnulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:51:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list
In-Reply-To: <56F436D1.4090302@msapiro.net>
References: <56F188A2.7090902@scu.edu> <56F1DD6C.1070702@msapiro.net>
 <56F2DD5A.8030406@scu.edu> <56F34602.2000106@msapiro.net>
 <56F41314.4020203@scu.edu> <56F436D1.4090302@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56FACEBA.1090906@scu.edu>

On 3/24/2016 11:49 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 03/24/2016 09:17 AM, Chris Nulk wrote:
>> I did a little searching around our lists.  It seems the attachments
>> directory is always created and populated whether or not scrub_nondigest
>> was ever set to Yes.  So I can't really use the existence of the
>> attachments directory or the lack of it being populated as a check for
>> if scrub_nondigest was ever set to Yes.
>
> No, but here's what you can look for.
>
> If scrub_nondigest is True, the message will be scrubbed during
> processing before any delivery and before the message is added to the
> cumulative mbox. Thus there will be one copy of each scrubbed attachment
> in the attachments directory and a link in the message body and the
> scrubbed attachment will not be in the cumulative mbox.
>

[SNIPPED a big chunk]

> The loss of data problem is if scrub_nondigest is No and was Yes in the
> past, the attachments that were scrubbed when it was Yes will be lost.
>
Thanks for the information Mark.  It is a messy situation.  I decided to 
simplify the changes I made to clone_list.

1. The -b/--rebuild_archives option now requires a Yes/No/? answer 
(don't know if I did it right in the parser)
2. If -b/--rebuild_archives is:
     a. specified on the command line but without Yes/No/?, '?' is assumed,
     b. '?', program prints warning message and exits,
     c. 'No', program proceeds with list cloning and does NOT rebuild 
the archives,
     d. 'Yes', program proceeds with list cloning and DOES rebuild the 
archives (no warnings).

Hopefully, the changes will catch casual mistakes.

Below is the diff from Mark's original clone_list.  Please let me know 
if there are any improvements to be made.

Thanks,
Chris

------------------- diff file ------------------------
--- clone_list    2016-03-18 10:28:14.000000000 -0700
+++ clone_list_scu    2016-03-29 11:23:22.000000000 -0700
@@ -109,6 +109,17 @@
                        dest='archives', action='store_true',
                        help="""\
  Clone the archives of the old list. The default is an empty archive.""")
+    parser.add_argument('-b', '--rebuild_archives',
+                      dest='rebuild_archives', nargs='?',
+                      const='?', default='No',
+                      help="""\
+Rebuild the archives of the new list. Requires -a/--archives.
+                      ***** WARNING *****
+If scrub_nondigest was 'Yes' at any time in a list's past,
+rebuilding the archives will lose the scrubbed attachments from the
+'Yes' period.  Please review the settings and archives for the list
+prior to rebuilding the archives.  At a minimum, make backups of the
+list and its archives.""")
      parser.add_argument('-e', '--extra_files',
                        dest='extra', action='store_true',
                        help="""\
@@ -186,6 +197,25 @@
              abort("%s doesn't appear to be a valid email address" % 
ns.owner)
      if ns.extra and not ns.clone_members:
          abort('-e/--extra_files requires -m/--members.')
+
+    if ns.rebuild_archives.lower() not in set(['no', 'n', 'yes', 'y', 
'?']):
+        abort('%s is not valid for -b/--rebuild_archives.  Please 
answer Yes or No.' % ns.rebuild_archives)
+    rebuild_archives = ns.rebuild_archives[0].lower()
+    if rebuild_archives == '?':
+        abort("""
+Specifying rebuild_archives requires an affirmative indication for
+%s's archives to be rebuilt.
+
+                       ***** WARNING *****
+If scrub_nondigest was 'Yes' at any time in %s's past,
+rebuilding the archives will lose the scrubbed attachments from the
+'Yes' period.  Please review the settings and archives for %s
+prior to rebuilding the archives.  At a minimum, make backups of the
+list and its archives.""" % (old_list, old_list, old_list))
+
+    if rebuild_archives == 'y' and not ns.archives:
+        abort('-b/--rebuild_archives requires -a/--archives.')
+
      if ns.verbose:
          print 'Getting %s list...' % ns.old_list
      ol = MailList(old_list, lock=False)
@@ -268,5 +298,26 @@
                     (ns.old_list, ns.new_list))
          copy_archives(old_list, new_list)

+    if rebuild_archives == 'y':
+        if ns.verbose:
+            print 'Rebuilding %s archives...' % ns.new_list
+        archcmd = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), 'arch')
+        if not os.path.isfile(archcmd):
+            abort("""%s doesn't exist.
+Am I installed in Mailman's bin/ directory?""" % archcmd)
+        rbld = subprocess.Popen([archcmd,
+                                 '--wipe',
+                                 new_list
+                                ],
+                                stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
+                                stderr=subprocess.PIPE
+                               )
+        so, se = rbld.communicate()
+        if rbld.returncode:
+            abort('unable to rebuild archives for %s\n%s' % 
(ns.new_list, se))
+        # If there was stdout output, print it. It is probably aliases.
+        if so:
+            print so
+
  if __name__ == '__main__':
      main()


From kapuzino at web.de  Tue Mar 29 16:22:24 2016
From: kapuzino at web.de (kapuzino at web.de)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:22:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without localhost ?
Message-ID: <3qZMmX21dDzFqKp@mail.python.org>


The Service-Assistant of my hosting tried to solve, but did not found both of the default entries in mm_cfg.py.
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0   
So he's asking for accurate steps to handle SMTP Host Override (Plesk 12.5.x.). 

Also he wants to know, how to prevent overriding that values during next server-update.

K.



Antwort auf Nachricht vom 2016-03-13 - 23:44:12 :
___________________________________________________________

>On 03/13/2016 01:44 PM, kapuzino at web.de wrote:
>> 
>> The new operator of my hosting decided to remove localhost from whitelist in plesk outbound filter to prevent spam and blacklisting.
>> Anybody knows any chance to use mailman another way ?
>
>
>There are a couple of possibilities.
>
>
>> MM is still installed (v2.1.18), but recently only woks delivering to server-internal adresses.
>> The service guy said, there might by a chance using smtp auth.
>> 
>> I have no access to mm_cfg.py of my own, but perheaps the service assistant will do the job, if I give him information.
>> (have a low price hosting)
>
>
>Mailman has two settings for the outgoing mail server that can be
>overridden in mm_cfg.py. The default settings are
>
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>SMTPPORT = 0    # 0 means use the smtplib default which is 25
>
>These are for outgoing mail from Mailman only. They have nothing to do
>with delivery of mail TO mailman. You can tell Mailman to connect to any
>SMTP server and port by setting SMTPHOST to the fully qualified name of
>the server and/or SMTPPORT to the port.
>
>If the host operator will perhaps set up and allow an alternative port
>for you to use without authentication, then Mailman can simply be
>configured to use that port.
>
>If that isn't an option, but you can use an alternate port such as 465
>or 587  that may require TLS and/or authentication, you can set SMTPPORT
>to that value, but you (or the host admin) will have to patch Mailman's
>SMTPDirect.py module to provide the authentication. You can find a patch
>for this at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558281>.
>




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 29 17:07:33 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 14:07:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without localhost ?
In-Reply-To: <3qZMmX21dDzFqKp@mail.python.org>
References: <3qZMmX21dDzFqKp@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <56FAEE95.1060805@msapiro.net>

On 3/29/16 1:22 PM, kapuzino at web.de wrote:
> 
> The Service-Assistant of my hosting tried to solve, but did not found both of the default entries in mm_cfg.py.
> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> SMTPPORT = 0   
> So he's asking for accurate steps to handle SMTP Host Override (Plesk 12.5.x.). 


Those settings are the defaults defined in Mailman/Defaults.py

If you want to change them, you redefine them in Mailman/mm_cfg.py and
your redefinition will override the default. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/4030588>.

So, for example, to change the port to 587, you just need to add

SMTPPORT = 587

to Mailman/mm_cfg.py.


> Also he wants to know, how to prevent overriding that values during next server-update.


Mailman upgrades never overwrite mm_cfg.py. What Plesk does in a Plesk
update is a Plesk question that I can't answer. A Plesk update SHOULD
not overwrite mm_cfg.py, but I can't say that it will or wont.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From willi.uebelherr at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 03:46:09 2016
From: willi.uebelherr at gmail.com (willi uebelherr)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 03:16:09 -0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
In-Reply-To: <22266.49707.745746.442716@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com> <56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>
 <22266.49707.745746.442716@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56FB8441.6070704@gmail.com>


Dear Mark and Stephan and friends,

yes, i absolutly trust you that you work in relation to the RFC?s 
definition. And, it is truth, that i am not an expert in the email 
transport mechanism.

My second question was more to understand the background. And i am very 
thankful for the answer from Mark.

But the answer to the first question is not correct. I have some people 
in different mailman maillists with 2 Sender fields. And because my mail 
client Thunderbird use the first then the filter don?t work. I had to 
extend the filterlist with the "Sender" field.

Maybe, i can also use the field "List-Id". It can work for the same. And 
in all this mails with the double Sender field i see only one List-Id 
fields.

Never i have checked other mails for 2 Sender fields. I can do it, if it 
would helpful for you. And if you need the mailman version, i will look for.

In this moment, i don?t know, how i can search with Thunderbird for 2 
Sender fields. But this is a totally other question.

If i should make a bug report, tell me. And, because it is the first 
time for me, give me some tips how i should do it.

many greetings, willi
St. Elena de Uairen, Venezuela



Am 29.03.2016 um 13:28 schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull:
> Mark Sapiro writes:
>
>   > Some yes and some no.
>
> As Mark knows, the general rule is that with a few deliberate,
> documented, optional cases Mailman tries to strictly respect RFC
> constraints for fields defined in an RFC.  We're pretty good about
> that; if you're not cranky RFC pedant like me, don't bother checking.
> But if you notice something that doesn't work as the RFCs specify,
> consider it a bug and notify us (especially in Mailman 3!)  (Do check
> that it's not an optional behavior -- Reply-To munging and From
> munging are non-conforming but options have been provided because
> there is "sufficient reason" for doing so.  If you don't like it,
> you'll have to take it up with the list owner, not with us.)
>
>   > Depending on list settings, a new, merged, Reply-To: or Cc: will be
>   > created and the original replaced,
>
> Also From may be munged to disable DMARC, depending on list settings
> and possibly a DNS check for DMARC policy.
>
>   > but headers like X-BeenThere: X-Mailman-Version:, etc., will just
>   > be added.
>
> BTW, in my (recent) experience Mailman 2 does not handle List-Post and
> List-ID correctly.  It replaces them, but List-Post should be left
> alone, and a new List-ID field should be added when there is already
> one, and if the existing List-ID is not a parent list, then it should
> be removed.  https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/217 for Mailman
> 3.
>
> @Mark: I don't think this is worth fixing for Mailman 2, but if you
> want to have it fixed, or just want an issue to document the lack of
> conformance that you can close, let me know and I'll file one.  If you
> want help on a fix, I'll be happy to work with you (but not until late
> April).
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/willi.uebelherr%40gmail.com
>

From arpepper at uwaterloo.ca  Wed Mar 30 08:49:15 2016
From: arpepper at uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:49:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow discard-and-forward for spam filters?
Message-ID: <20160330124915.1502318B16C1@ubuntu1204-102.cs.uwaterloo.ca>

Hello,

Because of centralized administration of mailman server used by many
campus units, and other general inertia, we still use 2.1.12 (a couple
of local mods; I know of one for sure for recognizing alternative email
addresses).

So I am wondering if later versions of Mailman 2 have added something
which seems to me to be obviously missing.

In (showing a representative, not necessarily real, URL)
https://python.org/mailman/admin/mailman-users/privacy/sender
you can choose to "discard" most messages and check "forward
discarded messages to the moderator".

However, in
https://python.org/mailman/admin/mailman-users/privacy/spam
you can only Dicard or Hold.
(Complete list Defer, Hold, Reject, Discard, Accept).

It would be nice if for each filter rule individually you
could choose "discard and forward to moderator".

Has that actually been implemented in subsequent versions of Mailman 2,
i.e. between 2.1.12 and 2.1.21 ?

I assume in Version 3 the filter capabilities have been completely
redone and probably regularized.

It began to seem prudent for us to hold "slightly spammy" mail for
inspection.  A problem is that the majority of those would have been
rejected by the sender filters anyway (though we're interested in
those that wouldn't), so this has resulted in a lot of extra moderator
work.

Now certainly we wouldn't want [or would appreciate the choice
not] to "forward to moderator" all discards on the /spam page.
And, really, the "does this fail the membership (filter) requirements"
is something you'd like to be able to determine in the spam filters.
(And simply discard those, perhaps forwarding if they are not too
spammy).  (Because really really we'd like to "hold" slightly spammy
messages which meet membership requirements, but discard-and-forward
the others, but discarding-and-forwarding-to-moderator all would be
reasonable compromise).

I wondered too about combined expressions (and negation).
Those don't look easy to do.

     header_filter_rules (privacy): Filter rules to match against the
     headers of a message.

     Each header filter rule has two parts, a list of regular
     expressions, one per line, and an action to take. Mailman matches
     the message's headers against every regular expression in the rule
     and if any match, the message is rejected, held, or discarded
     based on the action you specify. Use Defer to temporarily disable
     a rule. You can have more than one filter rule for your list. In
     that case, each rule is matched in turn, with processing stopped
     after the first match. Note that headers are collected from all
     the attachments (except for the mailman administrivia message) and
     matched against the regular expressions.  With this feature, you
     can effectively sort out messages with dangerous file types or
     file name extensions.

Since you can always add multiple rules to achieve "or", it seems
unfortunate (but past history now) that multiple expressions don't "and".

Anyway, my simple question is "did Mailman 2 sometime after 2.1.12 gain
the ability to 'dicard and forward to moderator'" as an option for each
spam filter rule?

(Along with the implicit suggestion that that would be a useful option).
(And the longer-term suggestion for AND and negation).


Adrian Pepper


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 30 10:14:08 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 07:14:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
In-Reply-To: <56FB8441.6070704@gmail.com>
References: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com> <56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>
 <22266.49707.745746.442716@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56FB8441.6070704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FBDF30.7090208@msapiro.net>

On 3/30/16 12:46 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
> 
> But the answer to the first question is not correct. I have some people
> in different mailman maillists with 2 Sender fields. And because my mail
> client Thunderbird use the first then the filter don?t work. I had to
> extend the filterlist with the "Sender" field.


In Mailman 2.1.14 and newer, there is an include_sender_header setting
on each list's General Options page. If that is Yes, Mailman will remove
all Sender: headers from the incoming mail and add its own. If it is No,
Mailman doesn't remove or add Sender: headers. Pre 2.1.14 Mailman always
did removal and addition.


> Maybe, i can also use the field "List-Id". It can work for the same. And
> in all this mails with the double Sender field i see only one List-Id
> fields.


There is also an Errors-To: header and there should always be just
Mailman's.


> Never i have checked other mails for 2 Sender fields. I can do it, if it
> would helpful for you. And if you need the mailman version, i will look
> for.


If Mailman is adding a Sender: header without first removing any
existing ones, I would like to see all the headers from such a message
as sent by Mailman.


> If i should make a bug report, tell me. And, because it is the first
> time for me, give me some tips how i should do it.


Bugs in MM 2.1 should be reported at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>, but first, just send me
or post here the full message headers from the message as sent by Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 30 20:42:18 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 17:42:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow discard-and-forward for spam filters?
In-Reply-To: <20160330124915.1502318B16C1@ubuntu1204-102.cs.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20160330124915.1502318B16C1@ubuntu1204-102.cs.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <56FC726A.5020408@msapiro.net>

On 3/30/16 5:49 AM, Adrian Pepper wrote:
> 
> However, in
> https://python.org/mailman/admin/mailman-users/privacy/spam
> you can only Dicard or Hold.
> (Complete list Defer, Hold, Reject, Discard, Accept).
> 
> It would be nice if for each filter rule individually you
> could choose "discard and forward to moderator".
> 
> Has that actually been implemented in subsequent versions of Mailman 2,
> i.e. between 2.1.12 and 2.1.21 ?


No.

It is an interesting idea. The problem is that unless someone submits a
patch, I'm the one that would end up doing it, and even with a patch,
I'd need to audit it. I'm starting to get more involved in MM 3, and as
such, have less time for MM 2.1 "nice to haves". You can always submit a
request for MM 2.1 at <>.

I don't know what your mods "for recognizing alternative email
addresses" are, but there is since MM 2.1.19 and equivalent_domains list
attribute to, e.g., say that @mac.com, @me.com and @icloud.com are all
the same for list membership purposes.


> I assume in Version 3 the filter capabilities have been completely
> redone and probably regularized.


Not completely redone, but redone in some respects, but probably not
regularized in the ways you would want.


> Now certainly we wouldn't want [or would appreciate the choice
> not] to "forward to moderator" all discards on the /spam page.
> And, really, the "does this fail the membership (filter) requirements"
> is something you'd like to be able to determine in the spam filters.
> (And simply discard those, perhaps forwarding if they are not too
> spammy).  (Because really really we'd like to "hold" slightly spammy
> messages which meet membership requirements, but discard-and-forward
> the others, but discarding-and-forwarding-to-moderator all would be
> reasonable compromise).


The easiest way for me to implement this would simply be to add a
"Discard and Forward" action to the other choices. Adding a Forward
checkbox that would apply to any selected action is certainly more
flexible, but more complicated to implement.


> I wondered too about combined expressions (and negation).
> Those don't look easy to do.
...
> Since you can always add multiple rules to achieve "or", it seems
> unfortunate (but past history now) that multiple expressions don't "and".


Yes, it does, but as you note it's history. Maybe in MM 3.


> Anyway, my simple question is "did Mailman 2 sometime after 2.1.12 gain
> the ability to 'dicard and forward to moderator'" as an option for each
> spam filter rule?


Again, No.


> (Along with the implicit suggestion that that would be a useful option).
> (And the longer-term suggestion for AND and negation).


AND and negation probably won't happen in MM 2.1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 30 23:40:28 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:40:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow discard-and-forward for spam filters?
In-Reply-To: <56FC726A.5020408@msapiro.net>
References: <20160330124915.1502318B16C1@ubuntu1204-102.cs.uwaterloo.ca>
 <56FC726A.5020408@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56FC9C2C.1070408@msapiro.net>

On 3/30/16 5:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> You can always submit a request for MM 2.1 at <>.


Sorry, I neglected to fill in the URL. It is
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From willi.uebelherr at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 13:34:07 2016
From: willi.uebelherr at gmail.com (willi uebelherr)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:04:07 -0430
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
In-Reply-To: <56FBDF30.7090208@msapiro.net>
References: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com> <56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>
 <22266.49707.745746.442716@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56FB8441.6070704@gmail.com> <56FBDF30.7090208@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56FD5F8F.3050307@gmail.com>

Dear Mark,

i am so happy about your strong cooperation. it is fantastic.

Here i will show you some of the header. The mailman version is not 
included. And you see, that the administrators of this list don?t 
understand the difference from ...-request and ...-bounces.

Reply-To: joly at punkcast.com
Sender: joly.nyc at gmail.com
In-Reply-To: <56FCB7A8.3080706 at apc.org>
References: <56FCB7A8.3080706 at apc.org>
From: Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com>
Errors-to: bestbits-owner at lists.bestbits.net
Sender: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
List-Id: <bestbits.lists.bestbits.net>

In other emails it is listed similar. Therefore, i tried with the Field 
List-Id. In my filter i use now two filter criteria in OR relation. 
Sender or List-Id. Never i found a doubled entry List-Id.

And now it is stable working. After some time, i will try List-Id alone. 
I think, it is better then both. And yes, Errors-to is the same. But i 
like more List-Id.

many, many thanks for your time, work and friendly helping.
with greetings, willi
St. Elena de uairen, Venezuela



Am 30.03.2016 um 09:44 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> On 3/30/16 12:46 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
>>
>> But the answer to the first question is not correct. I have some people
>> in different mailman maillists with 2 Sender fields. And because my mail
>> client Thunderbird use the first then the filter don?t work. I had to
>> extend the filterlist with the "Sender" field.
>
>
> In Mailman 2.1.14 and newer, there is an include_sender_header setting
> on each list's General Options page. If that is Yes, Mailman will remove
> all Sender: headers from the incoming mail and add its own. If it is No,
> Mailman doesn't remove or add Sender: headers. Pre 2.1.14 Mailman always
> did removal and addition.
>
>
>> Maybe, i can also use the field "List-Id". It can work for the same. And
>> in all this mails with the double Sender field i see only one List-Id
>> fields.
>
>
> There is also an Errors-To: header and there should always be just
> Mailman's.
>
>
>> Never i have checked other mails for 2 Sender fields. I can do it, if it
>> would helpful for you. And if you need the mailman version, i will look
>> for.
>
>
> If Mailman is adding a Sender: header without first removing any
> existing ones, I would like to see all the headers from such a message
> as sent by Mailman.
>
>
>> If i should make a bug report, tell me. And, because it is the first
>> time for me, give me some tips how i should do it.
>
>
> Bugs in MM 2.1 should be reported at
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>, but first, just send me
> or post here the full message headers from the message as sent by Mailman.
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 31 23:16:57 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:16:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
In-Reply-To: <56FD5F8F.3050307@gmail.com>
References: <56F8137F.30502@gmail.com> <56F94C77.7040009@msapiro.net>
 <22266.49707.745746.442716@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56FB8441.6070704@gmail.com> <56FBDF30.7090208@msapiro.net>
 <56FD5F8F.3050307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FDE829.3080104@msapiro.net>

On 3/31/16 10:34 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
> 
> i am so happy about your strong cooperation. it is fantastic.


That's what we're here for. We want to help.


> Here i will show you some of the header. The mailman version is not
> included. And you see, that the administrators of this list don?t
> understand the difference from ...-request and ...-bounces.
> 
> Reply-To: joly at punkcast.com
> Sender: joly.nyc at gmail.com
> In-Reply-To: <56FCB7A8.3080706 at apc.org>
> References: <56FCB7A8.3080706 at apc.org>
> From: Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com>
> Errors-to: bestbits-owner at lists.bestbits.net
> Sender: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
> List-Id: <bestbits.lists.bestbits.net>


This mailman installation has non-standard patches/code.

In standard GNU Mailman, both Errors-To: and Sender: as added by Mailman
will be to the listname-bounces address. Here they go to -owner and
-request respectively, so the most likely explanation for multiple
Sender: headers is the installation's modified code doesn't remove the
Sender: headers before adding its own.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan