From nwyman at viablecomputing.com  Wed Nov  1 10:41:29 2017
From: nwyman at viablecomputing.com (Nick Wyman)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:41:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
Message-ID: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>

Hello, 

On a server which hosts several mailman lists, a new list is exhibiting odd behavior for owner email addresses.  There are two owners, and both are receiving post emails, but are also bouncing what I assume are administrative emails.

The smtp-failure log looks like:

Nov 01 09:37:09 2017 (1387) delivery to <scrubbed> failed with code 553: 5.1.8 <scrubbed>... Domain of sender address mailman-bounces at com does not exist

Note that the sender address is incorrect (default value?).  Regular posting emails are delivered with the correct sender address (foo-bounces at domain.com).

Using config_list to inspect the non-working list against a working list produces only the expected differences.

Where should I look next?

Thank you.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 11:33:33 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 08:33:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
Message-ID: <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 07:41 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> 
> On a server which hosts several mailman lists, a new list is exhibiting odd behavior for owner email addresses.  There are two owners, and both are receiving post emails, but are also bouncing what I assume are administrative emails.
> 
> The smtp-failure log looks like:
> 
> Nov 01 09:37:09 2017 (1387) delivery to <scrubbed> failed with code 553: 5.1.8 <scrubbed>... Domain of sender address mailman-bounces at com does not exist


If it actually says "mailman-bounces at com", go to the list's web admin UI
and look at the setting for host_name near the bottom of the General
Options page. It will be "com". Set it to the actual correct email
domain name for this list.


> Note that the sender address is incorrect (default value?).  Regular posting emails are delivered with the correct sender address (foo-bounces at domain.com).
> 
> Using config_list to inspect the non-working list against a working list produces only the expected differences.


It doesn't show a difference in the host_name setting?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From nwyman at viablecomputing.com  Wed Nov  1 12:19:44 2017
From: nwyman at viablecomputing.com (Nick Wyman)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:19:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>

Mark, thank you for your reply.

Yes, the hostname variable for the list is correct.  The posting emails from the list are delivered correctly.

I now think this is due to a spam email which was sent to mailman at mydomain.com  (it's stuck in my mail queue) which is somehow erroneously being processed by mailman and routed to this particular list's owners, but with a bad sender address.  

Does this seem plausible?  

I see a "mailman" list in /etc/aliases and ../mailman/lists, but there isn't a "mailman" list in my web config.  I did dump the configuration for the "mailman" list via config_list and hostname is set correctly.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+nwyman=viablecomputing.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark
> Sapiro
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 10:34 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
> 
> On 11/01/2017 07:41 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> >
> > On a server which hosts several mailman lists, a new list is exhibiting odd
> behavior for owner email addresses.  There are two owners, and both are
> receiving post emails, but are also bouncing what I assume are administrative
> emails.
> >
> > The smtp-failure log looks like:
> >
> > Nov 01 09:37:09 2017 (1387) delivery to <scrubbed> failed with code 553:
> 5.1.8 <scrubbed>... Domain of sender address mailman-bounces at com does not
> exist
> 
> 
> If it actually says "mailman-bounces at com", go to the list's web admin UI
> and look at the setting for host_name near the bottom of the General
> Options page. It will be "com". Set it to the actual correct email
> domain name for this list.
> 
> 
> > Note that the sender address is incorrect (default value?).  Regular posting
> emails are delivered with the correct sender address (foo-
> bounces at domain.com).
> >
> > Using config_list to inspect the non-working list against a working list
> produces only the expected differences.
> 
> 
> It doesn't show a difference in the host_name setting?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/nwyman%40viablecomputing.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 12:36:30 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:36:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
Message-ID: <4c8ca33d-9e1d-b64a-da74-8a1bd501be1c@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 09:19 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> 
> I now think this is due to a spam email which was sent to mailman at mydomain.com  (it's stuck in my mail queue) which is somehow erroneously being processed by mailman and routed to this particular list's owners, but with a bad sender address.  
> 
> Does this seem plausible?  


Perhaps.


> I see a "mailman" list in /etc/aliases and ../mailman/lists, but there isn't a "mailman" list in my web config.  I did dump the configuration for the "mailman" list via config_list and hostname is set correctly.


Is this cPanel? If so, see the thread beginning at
<https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg69885.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 14:26:13 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:26:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <01a501d3533b$54fae120$fef0a360$@viablecomputing.com>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
 <4c8ca33d-9e1d-b64a-da74-8a1bd501be1c@msapiro.net>
 <01a501d3533b$54fae120$fef0a360$@viablecomputing.com>
Message-ID: <d595251c-f875-cd91-e2a4-948c126e79af@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 11:00 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> 
> This is not cpanel.  This is a virtual host running Ubuntu 14.04 and mailman 2.1.23.  


OK.


> Things have been running smooth for 1+ year but seem to have been tripped up by spam to mailman at mydomain.com.


It's possible that it's the 'mailman' list that has the 'com' host name.
That might be it.


> Perhaps the "mailman" list is misconfigured?
> 
> I don't have a mailman user account, the Ubuntu mailman setup created a "list" user.  So I'm not sure how the above mail should be routed.


Yes, in Debian/Ubuntu the Mailman user is 'list'. The "site list" which
every Mailman 2.1 installation must have is normally named 'mailman' and
is 'mailman' in the Debian/Ubuntu package.

You can access the web UI for the 'mailman' list at the same URL you use
for other lists' admin UI but with 'mailman' as the list name. You can
set a site password for your installation via Mailman's bin/mmsitepass
and use that password to log in to the list.

Do that and check the host_name for that list. Also make sure the
'owner' address is good. Or you can do it with 'withlist'.

$ bin/withlist -l mailman
Loading list mailman (locked)
The variable `m' is the mailman MailList instance
>>> m.host_name
'com'
>>>

Assuming that's the result, set it as in

>>> m.host_name = 'mydomain.com'

also look at

>>> m.owner

and set that if needed, and finally after making changes

>>> m.Save()
>>>             <- enter control-D here to exit
Unlocking (but not saving) list: mailman
Finalizing

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From nwyman at viablecomputing.com  Wed Nov  1 14:34:26 2017
From: nwyman at viablecomputing.com (Nick Wyman)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:34:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <d595251c-f875-cd91-e2a4-948c126e79af@msapiro.net>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
 <4c8ca33d-9e1d-b64a-da74-8a1bd501be1c@msapiro.net>
 <01a501d3533b$54fae120$fef0a360$@viablecomputing.com>
 <d595251c-f875-cd91-e2a4-948c126e79af@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <01b501d35340$0c91cb10$25b56130$@viablecomputing.com>

Well, I was hopeful, but the owner and hostname config for the mailman list are valid.

Can you tell me how mail sent to mailman at mydomain.com should be processed?  Is this an address which must be functional for receiving incoming email?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 1:26 PM
> To: Nick Wyman <nwyman at viablecomputing.com>; Mailman Users <mailman-
> users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
> 
> On 11/01/2017 11:00 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> >
> > This is not cpanel.  This is a virtual host running Ubuntu 14.04 and mailman
> 2.1.23.
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> 
> > Things have been running smooth for 1+ year but seem to have been tripped
> up by spam to mailman at mydomain.com.
> 
> 
> It's possible that it's the 'mailman' list that has the 'com' host name.
> That might be it.
> 
> 
> > Perhaps the "mailman" list is misconfigured?
> >
> > I don't have a mailman user account, the Ubuntu mailman setup created a
> "list" user.  So I'm not sure how the above mail should be routed.
> 
> 
> Yes, in Debian/Ubuntu the Mailman user is 'list'. The "site list" which
> every Mailman 2.1 installation must have is normally named 'mailman' and
> is 'mailman' in the Debian/Ubuntu package.
> 
> You can access the web UI for the 'mailman' list at the same URL you use
> for other lists' admin UI but with 'mailman' as the list name. You can
> set a site password for your installation via Mailman's bin/mmsitepass
> and use that password to log in to the list.
> 
> Do that and check the host_name for that list. Also make sure the
> 'owner' address is good. Or you can do it with 'withlist'.
> 
> $ bin/withlist -l mailman
> Loading list mailman (locked)
> The variable `m' is the mailman MailList instance
> >>> m.host_name
> 'com'
> >>>
> 
> Assuming that's the result, set it as in
> 
> >>> m.host_name = 'mydomain.com'
> 
> also look at
> 
> >>> m.owner
> 
> and set that if needed, and finally after making changes
> 
> >>> m.Save()
> >>>             <- enter control-D here to exit
> Unlocking (but not saving) list: mailman
> Finalizing
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 14:53:37 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:53:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <01b501d35340$0c91cb10$25b56130$@viablecomputing.com>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
 <4c8ca33d-9e1d-b64a-da74-8a1bd501be1c@msapiro.net>
 <01a501d3533b$54fae120$fef0a360$@viablecomputing.com>
 <d595251c-f875-cd91-e2a4-948c126e79af@msapiro.net>
 <01b501d35340$0c91cb10$25b56130$@viablecomputing.com>
Message-ID: <29ac11e9-6d10-9bc3-9a2f-f6b26b4e34d4@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 11:34 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> Well, I was hopeful, but the owner and hostname config for the mailman list are valid.


I was hopeful too :(


> Can you tell me how mail sent to mailman at mydomain.com should be processed?  Is this an address which must be functional for receiving incoming email?


Mail to mailman at mydomain.com should be processed as a post to the
'mailman' list. How it is handled depends on list configuration. There
is a suggested config for the list in Mailman's data/ directory, but I
don't recommend that. In particular, I recommend that the members of the
list and the owners of the list be the mailman site admin(s) and the
following specific settings.

Privacy options... -> Subscription rules
  advertised = No
  subscribe_policy = Require approval
  unsubscribe_policy = No
  private_roster = List admin only
Privacy options... -> Sender filters
  dmarc_moderation_action = Munge From
  dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes
  generic_nonmember_action = Accept

The reason for accepting messages from nonmembers is this address is
exposed on listinfo and admin overview pages as a "help" address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 15:04:53 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 12:04:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
Message-ID: <5c65870f-6660-2a8a-5ab5-b25c9facb9dc@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 09:19 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> 
> I now think this is due to a spam email which was sent to mailman at mydomain.com  (it's stuck in my mail queue) which is somehow erroneously being processed by mailman and routed to this particular list's owners, but with a bad sender address.  


Do you have a copy of this spam email including all headers? That might
be helpful.

Also, what happens if you send a message to mailman-owner at ... ?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From nwyman at viablecomputing.com  Wed Nov  1 15:35:14 2017
From: nwyman at viablecomputing.com (Nick Wyman)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 14:35:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <5c65870f-6660-2a8a-5ab5-b25c9facb9dc@msapiro.net>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
 <5c65870f-6660-2a8a-5ab5-b25c9facb9dc@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <01ef01d35348$8a8e7920$9fab6b60$@viablecomputing.com>

Emailing mailman-owner at mydomain.com has not worked.  The mailman list has valid owner config, but has no members.

Unfortunately, the original spam email has cleared from the mail spool.  However, I feel certain that the To: address was mailman at mydomain.com.  There were several CC: addresses which are stuck in the queue.  This was truly a spam email.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+nwyman=viablecomputing.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark
> Sapiro
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:05 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
> 
> On 11/01/2017 09:19 AM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> >
> > I now think this is due to a spam email which was sent to
> mailman at mydomain.com  (it's stuck in my mail queue) which is somehow
> erroneously being processed by mailman and routed to this particular list's
> owners, but with a bad sender address.
> 
> 
> Do you have a copy of this spam email including all headers? That might
> be helpful.
> 
> Also, what happens if you send a message to mailman-owner at ... ?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/nwyman%40viablecomputing.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 16:43:32 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list's SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <01ef01d35348$8a8e7920$9fab6b60$@viablecomputing.com>
References: <010a01d3531f$812fc740$838f55c0$@viablecomputing.com>
 <8d32fb54-84e5-3a9c-4c0e-f84a576c8cc9@msapiro.net>
 <016101d3532d$3b5dc0b0$b2194210$@viablecomputing.com>
 <5c65870f-6660-2a8a-5ab5-b25c9facb9dc@msapiro.net>
 <01ef01d35348$8a8e7920$9fab6b60$@viablecomputing.com>
Message-ID: <dc3f065b-d28a-7ec6-febb-b4df8030d310@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 12:35 PM, Nick Wyman wrote:
> Emailing mailman-owner at mydomain.com has not worked.  The mailman list has valid owner config, but has no members.


What happens to this mail. Can you see it in mail logs? It should be
delivered via a pipe to '/path/to/mail/mailman owner mailman' and then
Mailman should resend it to the list owner address(es).

How is mail to Mailman delivered? If via aliases, are there aliases for
the 'mailman' list?


> Unfortunately, the original spam email has cleared from the mail spool.  However, I feel certain that the To: address was mailman at mydomain.com.  There were several CC: addresses which are stuck in the queue.  This was truly a spam email.


Spam or not, it shouldn't result in Mailman sending mail with envelope
from mailman-bounces at com.

What is the content of mm_cfg.py? In particular, is there an entry like

add_virtualhost('mydomain.com')

or some entry like

add_virtualhost('DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST')

If so, these are probably wrong and the underlying cause. I.e. the
arguments for add_virtual_host are 'web host' and 'email host' but if
only one is provided, the email host becomes the web host with the
leftmost subdomain removed. I.e.

add_virtualhost('mydomain.com')

is equivalent to

add_virtualhost('mydomain.com', 'com')

which is never what you want. If both domains are the same, you want

add_virtualhost('mydomain.com', 'mydomain.com')

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Wed Nov  1 20:01:59 2017
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Wed,  1 Nov 2017 20:01:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.x docs? Or what do I need hack to make
 it work with SSL...
Message-ID: <20171102000159.4A80873238C@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

I can't find the admistrator docs for Mailman 2.1.x (I am running 2.1.16).  I 
recently (today) got a Let's Encrypt SSL cert for my mailman site, but 
some things are not working right.  The forms are being populated with http:// 
actions and not https:// actions.  What do I need to fix to correct that?  I 
tried putting

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

in mm_cfg.py, but that is not helping.


-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                              

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 20:41:56 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:41:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.x docs? Or what do I need hack to
 make it work with SSL...
In-Reply-To: <20171102000159.4A80873238C@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <20171102000159.4A80873238C@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <257afe8f-1922-e4d3-a799-ab82c226b180@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 05:01 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> I can't find the admistrator docs for Mailman 2.1.x (I am running 2.1.16).  I 
> recently (today) got a Let's Encrypt SSL cert for my mailman site, but 
> some things are not working right.  The forms are being populated with http:// 
> actions and not https:// actions.  What do I need to fix to correct that?  I 
> tried putting
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> 
> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py, but that is not helping.


Because that only affects new lists. For existing lists you need to run
fix_url. See step 3 at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892007>


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Wed Nov  1 21:48:44 2017
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Wed,  1 Nov 2017 21:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.x docs? Or what do I need hack to
 make it work with SSL...
In-Reply-To: <257afe8f-1922-e4d3-a799-ab82c226b180@msapiro.net>
References: <20171102000159.4A80873238C@sharky3.deepsoft.com> 
 <257afe8f-1922-e4d3-a799-ab82c226b180@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20171102014848.D313D732391@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

Thanks, that fixed things.

Wouldn't make better sense to just use "relative" URLs?

At Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:41:56 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> 
> On 11/01/2017 05:01 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > I can't find the admistrator docs for Mailman 2.1.x (I am running 2.1.16).  I 
> > recently (today) got a Let's Encrypt SSL cert for my mailman site, but 
> > some things are not working right.  The forms are being populated with http:// 
> > actions and not https:// actions.  What do I need to fix to correct that?  I 
> > tried putting
> > 
> > DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> > 
> > PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
> > 
> > in mm_cfg.py, but that is not helping.
> 
> 
> Because that only affects new lists. For existing lists you need to run
> fix_url. See step 3 at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892007>
> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                        

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  1 22:29:07 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 19:29:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.x docs? Or what do I need hack to
 make it work with SSL...
In-Reply-To: <20171102014848.D313D732391@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <20171102000159.4A80873238C@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <257afe8f-1922-e4d3-a799-ab82c226b180@msapiro.net>
 <20171102014848.D313D732391@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <f746c510-0f60-c47f-a594-fbeca4e22eb7@msapiro.net>

On 11/01/2017 06:48 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> Thanks, that fixed things.
> 
> Wouldn't make better sense to just use "relative" URLs?


We do use relative URLs in many, but not all cases. The list method
which gets these URLs has a flag to require an absolute URL and some
calls set it and some don't. I've never tried to determine which of
these might actually be necessary.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From anon_777 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  1 21:24:35 2017
From: anon_777 at hotmail.com (Terry .)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 01:24:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Bounce action notification" emails for
 subscribes/unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <KL1PR06MB10458E18D7A65F182E415824A9470@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <KL1PR06MB1045FA7285F186D9C0510B31A9810@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <KL1PR06MB104595D4912564F4943F9944A96C0@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <KL1PR06MB1045BC9A1B8649FA07BF68A7A9620@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <22975.33210.35652.332865@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>,
 <81c86029-b5b5-225d-db0b-0042c445cb13@msapiro.net>,
 <KL1PR06MB10452B745F0106B08909AADBA9720@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
 <KL1PR06MB1045CAC7E7EEA538BC02A21CA9470@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
 <KL1PR06MB10458E18D7A65F182E415824A9470@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <KL1PR06MB1045AF3E25547B8231966BDEA95C0@KL1PR06MB1045.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Mark.


Sorry for the delay in responding.  I've passed your offer of help on to the webhost a few mins ago.


Hoping they take it up...


BTW, how long are my emails to this list going to be moderated for?


Terry

From galaxyjustice2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  2 19:28:04 2017
From: galaxyjustice2 at gmail.com (Erin Test)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:28:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get a list's subscribe_policy via the command line
Message-ID: <DB1F29FD-1449-480D-BBA0-A0C3317F33AB@gmail.com>

I've been looking around and I'm not sure it exists but figured I would check here.  I'm looking for a way to get a list's subscribe_policy from the command line.  

We are syncing our lists with some user lists in our system but I only want to do this from mailman if 'require approval' or 'confirm and approve' are set.  If anyone has any thoughts on how to verify this I'd appreciate the pointers.

Thanks,
-Erin

From chris at rsip.lsu.edu  Thu Nov  2 19:30:21 2017
From: chris at rsip.lsu.edu (Chris Schwehm)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem after upgrade
Message-ID: <201711022337.vA2Nbvb12959@rsip.lsu.edu>

Hi,

I upgraded our mail server to the Fedora 26 and mailman stopped working.  Here 
is the error that I get:

---------
This is the mail system at host mail.eng.lsu.edu.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<test_l at eng.lsu.edu>: Command died with status 1:
    "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test_l". Command output: Traceback
    (most recent call last):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69,
    in <module>     main()   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64,
    in main     tolist=1, _plaintext=1)   File
    "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 136, in enqueue
    fp = open(tmpfile, 'w') IOError: [Errno 30] Read-only file system:
    
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1509664135.848898+d09e53601a3985b45331c31a2f49a5f7
0eb7462c.pck.tmp'

----------

If checked all of the ownership and permissions on that folder 
(/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in) both with the tool and manually and can't find 
out of the ordinary. 

Any ideas what may be causing this issue?

Regards,

Chris

===========================================================================
Chris Schwehm, Director
Office of Engineering Technology Services - 3324A Patrick F. Taylor Hall (CEBA)
Louisiana State University		Internet:  chris at rsip.lsu.edu  
Baton Rouge, LA  70803			(225) 578-5262  
WWW Home Page:  http://www.rsip.lsu.edu/chris
===========================================================================


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov  3 10:35:09 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 07:35:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get a list's subscribe_policy via the command
 line
In-Reply-To: <DB1F29FD-1449-480D-BBA0-A0C3317F33AB@gmail.com>
References: <DB1F29FD-1449-480D-BBA0-A0C3317F33AB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3338b626-2f69-fffc-9601-50c82359be06@msapiro.net>

On 11/02/2017 04:28 PM, Erin Test wrote:
> I've been looking around and I'm not sure it exists but figured I would check here.  I'm looking for a way to get a list's subscribe_policy from the command line.  
> 
> We are syncing our lists with some user lists in our system but I only want to do this from mailman if 'require approval' or 'confirm and approve' are set.  If anyone has any thoughts on how to verify this I'd appreciate the pointers.


for list in `bin/list_lists -b`;do
  echo $list
  bin/config_list -o- $list|grep 'subscribe_policy = [23]'
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov  3 10:43:51 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 07:43:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <201711022337.vA2Nbvb12959@rsip.lsu.edu>
References: <201711022337.vA2Nbvb12959@rsip.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <d6adc593-0656-42fe-70a8-d6a645679826@msapiro.net>

On 11/02/2017 04:30 PM, Chris Schwehm wrote:
> 
> I upgraded our mail server to the Fedora 26 and mailman stopped working.  Here 
> is the error that I get:


Please see <https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.


...
> <test_l at eng.lsu.edu>: Command died with status 1:
>     "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test_l". Command output: Traceback
>     (most recent call last):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69,
>     in <module>     main()   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64,
>     in main     tolist=1, _plaintext=1)   File
>     "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 136, in enqueue
>     fp = open(tmpfile, 'w') IOError: [Errno 30] Read-only file system:
>     
> '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in/1509664135.848898+d09e53601a3985b45331c31a2f49a5f7
> 0eb7462c.pck.tmp'
> 
> ----------
> 
> If checked all of the ownership and permissions on that folder 
> (/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in) both with the tool and manually and can't find 
> out of the ordinary. 
> 
> Any ideas what may be causing this issue?


The error seems self explanitory. The file system containing
/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/ is mounted read-only.

If for some reason that isn't the answer, I suspect some kind of SELinux
or other security manager issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From johnl at taugh.com  Mon Nov  6 10:05:25 2017
From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine)
Date: 6 Nov 2017 15:05:25 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
Message-ID: <20171106150525.20592.qmail@ary.lan>

I run a two-way usenet <-> mailman gateway.  When I forward someting
from the usenet group to mailman, it gets moderated, which is what I
want since a fair amount of the stuff in the usenet group is spam.
When mailman mdoerates the message, it sends the usual moderation
message to the usenet poster, which many posters find confusing.  Even
worse, since many usenet posters use fake addresses, the moderation
messages can go to random strangers.

Is there something I can put in the message header to say not to
send the moderation messages?  I don't want to turn them off globally
since they're fine for people who send mail directly to the list.

R's,
John

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov  6 13:01:07 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:01:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <20171106150525.20592.qmail@ary.lan>
References: <20171106150525.20592.qmail@ary.lan>
Message-ID: <851008d1-e6dd-bafe-9e85-e1ebaf1b81a9@msapiro.net>

On 11/06/2017 07:05 AM, John Levine wrote:
> I run a two-way usenet <-> mailman gateway.  When I forward someting
> from the usenet group to mailman, it gets moderated, which is what I
> want since a fair amount of the stuff in the usenet group is spam.


I can't understand what the issue is. Normally, posts from usenet will
be accepted without moderation unless the poster happens to be a
moderated list member, or possibly if LISTNAME-bounces at list.domain is a
moderated member hopefully with delivery disabled, or if the list's
emergency moderation is set, but emergency holds send no notices.

So my first question is how/why are the posts being held?


> When mailman mdoerates the message, it sends the usual moderation
> message to the usenet poster, which many posters find confusing.


This should not happen. The code that sends the user notice of a held
post specifically exempts posts from usenet.


> Even
> worse, since many usenet posters use fake addresses, the moderation
> messages can go to random strangers.
> 
> Is there something I can put in the message header to say not to
> send the moderation messages?  I don't want to turn them off globally
> since they're fine for people who send mail directly to the list.


I don't understand why they are sent now. They shouldn't be. In order to
understand what's happening, I need to know why the message is held,
i.e. what is the reason given in the admindb UI or mailman's vette log,
and whether you have done anything specific to cause the message to be held

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From johnl at taugh.com  Mon Nov  6 13:17:40 2017
From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine)
Date: 6 Nov 2017 18:17:40 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <851008d1-e6dd-bafe-9e85-e1ebaf1b81a9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20171106181740.21415.qmail@ary.lan>

In article <851008d1-e6dd-bafe-9e85-e1ebaf1b81a9 at msapiro.net> you write:
>So my first question is how/why are the posts being held?

Because the people posting from usenet aren't list subscribers. They
read the messages on usenet.

>> When mailman mdoerates the message, it sends the usual moderation
>> message to the usenet poster, which many posters find confusing.
>
>This should not happen. The code that sends the user notice of a held
>post specifically exempts posts from usenet.

Clearly it is expecting something that my gateway isn't including.
How does it try to guess that a message came from a usenet gateway?

R's,
John

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov  6 14:04:27 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:04:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <20171106181740.21415.qmail@ary.lan>
References: <20171106181740.21415.qmail@ary.lan>
Message-ID: <8d629943-93d6-2546-71f9-4484d8ecf431@msapiro.net>

On 11/06/2017 10:17 AM, John Levine wrote:
> In article <851008d1-e6dd-bafe-9e85-e1ebaf1b81a9 at msapiro.net> you write:
>> So my first question is how/why are the posts being held?
> 
> Because the people posting from usenet aren't list subscribers. They
> read the messages on usenet.


Then your Mailman must be 2.1.17 or later, and you have a regexp
matching anything in hold_these_nonmembers or your Mailman is older than
2.1.3. From 2.1.3 to 2.1.16, posts from usenet were not subject to
membership tests. Since then, posts from usenet with a sender who is a
moderated member or a non-member matching a pattern in
hold_these_nonmembers will be held.


>>> When mailman mdoerates the message, it sends the usual moderation
>>> message to the usenet poster, which many posters find confusing.
>>
>> This should not happen. The code that sends the user notice of a held
>> post specifically exempts posts from usenet.
> 
> Clearly it is expecting something that my gateway isn't including.
> How does it try to guess that a message came from a usenet gateway?


cron/gate_news sets fromusenet = True in the message metadata. This and
not sending notices to posters from usenet has been the case since at
least 2.1.1.

The code in cron/gate_news is

>                 # Post the message to the locked list
>                 inq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR)
>                 inq.enqueue(msg,
>                             listname = mlist.internal_name(),
>                             fromusenet = 1)


The code in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py is

>     # We may want to send a notification to the original sender too
>     fromusenet = msgdata.get('fromusenet')
>     # Since we're sending two messages, which may potentially be in different
>     # languages (the user's preferred and the list's preferred for the admin),
>     # we need to play some i18n games here.  Since the current language
>     # context ought to be set up for the user, let's craft his message first.
>     cookie = mlist.pend_new(Pending.HELD_MESSAGE, id)
>     if not fromusenet and ackp(msg) and mlist.respond_to_post_requests and \
>            mlist.autorespondToSender(sender, mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)):

followed by sending the message conditional on 'not fromusnet' and the
other conditions.

What do you have in those modules? What Mailman version is this? What
packager's patches are included?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From johnl at taugh.com  Mon Nov  6 22:25:11 2017
From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine)
Date: 7 Nov 2017 03:25:11 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <8d629943-93d6-2546-71f9-4484d8ecf431@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>

In article <8d629943-93d6-2546-71f9-4484d8ecf431 at msapiro.net> you write:
>cron/gate_news ....

I'm not using that.  My news server isn't on the same network as
the mailman system, and the gateway is basically a few lines of
procmail and formail I've been using for a decade to splice usenet
groups to various mailing lists.

I don't know what version of mailman they use, it's ntp.org.

R's,
John



From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Tue Nov  7 02:29:03 2017
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:29:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
Message-ID: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>

I run a low-volume mailing list (using Mailman 2.1.12) and I see that a 
few spam-messages have gotten through, which also means they're archived.
I would like to remove them but all the info I can find when searching 
online are along the lines of "hard to do", "shouldn't be attempted", 
"impossible" and so on. Is this correct, or is there a solution?

Perhaps it helps to say that for the past two months (September and 
October) each of those only contains one message each, and they're spam. 
Other months contain a mix of spam and legitimate messages.

Hal

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov  7 09:42:39 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 06:42:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
Message-ID: <1126BEF7-6941-45BF-9BA2-A95B28FAD3B3@msapiro.net>

On November 6, 2017 7:25:11 PM PST, John Levine <johnl at taugh.com> wrote:
>In article <8d629943-93d6-2546-71f9-4484d8ecf431 at msapiro.net> you
>write:
>>cron/gate_news ....
>
>I'm not using that.  My news server isn't on the same network as
>the mailman system, and the gateway is basically a few lines of
>procmail and formail I've been using for a decade to splice usenet
>groups to various mailing lists.
>
>I don't know what version of mailman they use, it's ntp.org.


So basically there's nothing you can do. Your process posts from usenet like any other post. Treating those differently would require source modification on the Mailman server.

You could set respond_to_post_requests to No, but then email posters wouldn't get notifications either.

Or you could try to use Mailman's usenet gateway if the host supports it.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

From johnl at taugh.com  Tue Nov  7 10:16:07 2017
From: johnl at taugh.com (John R Levine)
Date: 7 Nov 2017 10:16:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <0100015f970c100b-67a7b6ff-b1d4-4dfd-a909-1bb40316f663-000000@email.amazonses.com>
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
 <1126BEF7-6941-45BF-9BA2-A95B28FAD3B3@msapiro.net>
 <0100015f970c100b-67a7b6ff-b1d4-4dfd-a909-1bb40316f663-000000@email.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1711071015270.33567@ary.qy>

> Why not, when sending usenet posts to the list, merely change the 'from' address to yourself (or a special-purpose mailbox, or something)?  This would require only changes to stuff you made yourself (the usenet -> list processing).

I'd think the answer was obvious: Because I didn't write the messages, and 
I don't want the responses from people who read them.

R's,
John

From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Tue Nov  7 13:41:08 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 12:41:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 11/07/2017 01:29 AM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I run a low-volume mailing list (using Mailman 2.1.12) and I see that a
> few spam-messages have gotten through, which also means they're archived.
> I would like to remove them but all the info I can find when searching
> online are along the lines of "hard to do", "shouldn't be attempted",
> "impossible" and so on. Is this correct, or is there a solution?

man mmarch

I haven't done this in forever but IIRC the scary hard to do impossible
part is editing the mbox file without messing it up, not exactly rocket
science.

-- 
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu

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From adam at agp-llc.com  Tue Nov  7 10:14:31 2017
From: adam at agp-llc.com (Adam Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 15:14:31 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <1126BEF7-6941-45BF-9BA2-A95B28FAD3B3@msapiro.net>
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
 <1126BEF7-6941-45BF-9BA2-A95B28FAD3B3@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <0100015f970c105d-2e8eb3fe-24ec-4d4e-9a70-d094a3e78f12-000000@email.amazonses.com>

Why not, when sending usenet posts to the list, merely change the 'from' address to yourself (or a special-purpose mailbox, or something)?  This would require only changes to stuff you made yourself (the usenet -> list processing).


Adam Goldberg
AGP, LLC
+1-202-507-9900


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+adam=agp-llc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:43 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org; John Levine <johnl at taugh.com>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?

On November 6, 2017 7:25:11 PM PST, John Levine <johnl at taugh.com> wrote:
>In article <8d629943-93d6-2546-71f9-4484d8ecf431 at msapiro.net> you
>write:
>>cron/gate_news ....
>
>I'm not using that.  My news server isn't on the same network as the 
>mailman system, and the gateway is basically a few lines of procmail 
>and formail I've been using for a decade to splice usenet groups to 
>various mailing lists.
>
>I don't know what version of mailman they use, it's ntp.org.


So basically there's nothing you can do. Your process posts from usenet like any other post. Treating those differently would require source modification on the Mailman server.

You could set respond_to_post_requests to No, but then email posters wouldn't get notifications either.

Or you could try to use Mailman's usenet gateway if the host supports it.


--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adam%40agp-llc.com

From james at dorydesign.com  Tue Nov  7 17:28:54 2017
From: james at dorydesign.com (Jim Dory)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 13:28:54 -0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <CAKhfoy0Sjf6-Ene90iaERaeanN38tsZjWDsW79Df=z01h+-LVw@mail.gmail.com>

Just had to do it today. I chose method #1 - just deleted an URL that was
probably used for phishing from two messages.

https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20edit%20the%20archives%20of%20a%20Mailman%20list%3F

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Hal via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users at python.org> wrote:

> I run a low-volume mailing list (using Mailman 2.1.12) and I see that a
> few spam-messages have gotten through, which also means they're archived.
> I would like to remove them but all the info I can find when searching
> online are along the lines of "hard to do", "shouldn't be attempted",
> "impossible" and so on. Is this correct, or is there a solution?
>
> Perhaps it helps to say that for the past two months (September and
> October) each of those only contains one message each, and they're spam.
> Other months contain a mix of spam and legitimate messages.
>
> Hal
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ma
> ilman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%
> 40dorydesign.com
>

From brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com  Tue Nov  7 16:58:35 2017
From: brown at mrvideo.vidiot.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 15:58:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin tools partially not working
Message-ID: <20171107215835.GQ28925@mrvideo.vidiot.com>

Fedora 26
mailman 2.1.21

I moved my mailman list from an old Solaris server to the new Linux server.
I did a tarball of the "lists" directory and placed it in the mailman config
area.

I do not have exim up and running yet.  So, all I can do at the moment is
admin stuff.  But, when I go to:

http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo it says that there are no public lists.
But, there are a few.  Going to http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo/foolist
says that the list does not exit.

Besides copying over the lists file from old to new, what else is needed
for the admin tools to "see" the lists?

Thanks for any pointers.

MB
-- 
e-mail: vidiot at vidiot.com | vidiot at vidiot.net            /~\ The ASCII
        6082066843 at email.uscc.net (140 char limit)       \ / Ribbon Campaign
Visit - URL: http://vidiot.com/                           X  Against
             http://vidiot.net/                          / \ HTML Email
"You're Sherlock Holmes, wear the damn hat!" - Watson to Sherlock
Sherlock - The Abominable Bride - 1/01/16

From mathieu at 400iso.net  Tue Nov  7 22:14:14 2017
From: mathieu at 400iso.net (Mathieu R.)
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 03:14:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong Mysql syntax
Message-ID: <CAEUXyF8n99T8P9ieDr=v4goSRtazkq9L6LadFKk0tNBsR-nHrA@mail.gmail.com>

I try to setup a debian/Mysql/Postfix/dovecot server
Here is the error i got in mail.log. I checked my mysql_relay_domains
twice, but i can't find my mistake


Nov  7 22:05:10 vps81550 postfix/postscreen[23904]: CONNECT from
[209.85.215.51]:52679 to [149.56.x.x]:x
Nov  7 22:05:10 vps81550 postfix/postscreen[23904]: cache
btree:/var/lib/postfix/postscreen_cache full cleanup: retained=35 dropped=0
entries
Nov  7 22:05:10 vps81550 postfix/dnsblog[23909]: addr 209.85.215.51 listed
by domain dnsbl.sorbs.net as 127.0.0.6
Nov  7 22:05:10 vps81550 postfix/postscreen[23904]: PASS OLD
[209.85.215.51]:52679
Nov  7 22:05:10 vps81550 postfix/smtpd[23911]: connect from
mail-lf0-f51.google.com[209.85.215.51]
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/smtpd[23911]: Untrusted TLS connection
established from mail-lf0-f51.google.com[209.85.215.51] TLSv1.2 with cipher
ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning: mysql
query failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that
corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near
'' at line 1
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning:
relay_domains: mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_relay_domains.cf: table lookup
problem
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning:
relay_domains lookup failure
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning:
relay_domains: mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_relay_domains.cf: table lookup
problem
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning:
relay_domains: mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_relay_domains.cf: table lookup
problem
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning:
relay_domains lookup failure
Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/smtpd[23911]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
mail-lf0-f51.google.com[209.85.215.51] 451 4.3.0 <xxxxxxx at gmail.com>:
Temporary lookup failure; from=<xxxxxxx at gmail.com> to=<xxxxx at xxxx.org>
proto=ESMTP helo=<mail-lf0-f51.google.com>

Here is the content of my mysql_relay_domains :

hosts = 127.0.0.1
user = user
password = password
dbname = dbname
query = SELECT domain FROM domain WHERE domain='%s' and backupmx =

-- 

Mathieu R.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  8 14:13:34 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 11:13:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin tools partially not working
In-Reply-To: <20171107215835.GQ28925@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
References: <20171107215835.GQ28925@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
Message-ID: <4d67374c-fd7c-e862-b473-7207d580786b@msapiro.net>

On 11/07/2017 01:58 PM, Mike Brown wrote:
> Fedora 26
> mailman 2.1.21
> 
> I moved my mailman list from an old Solaris server to the new Linux server.
> I did a tarball of the "lists" directory and placed it in the mailman config
> area.
> 
> I do not have exim up and running yet.  So, all I can do at the moment is
> admin stuff.  But, when I go to:
> 
> http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo it says that there are no public lists.
> But, there are a few.  Going to http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo/foolist
> says that the list does not exit.


Was the old URL (domain) the same? If VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is Yes (or
On - the default) http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo will only show
lists in the vidiot.net domain.

What does Mailman's bin/list_lists show?

Running bin/check_perms is also a good idea.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  8 15:11:21 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 12:11:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong Mysql syntax
In-Reply-To: <CAEUXyF8n99T8P9ieDr=v4goSRtazkq9L6LadFKk0tNBsR-nHrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEUXyF8n99T8P9ieDr=v4goSRtazkq9L6LadFKk0tNBsR-nHrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997f6186-72c3-2cd4-be49-e338d7e2ea08@msapiro.net>

On 11/07/2017 07:14 PM, Mathieu R. wrote:
> I try to setup a debian/Mysql/Postfix/dovecot server
> Here is the error i got in mail.log. I checked my mysql_relay_domains
> twice, but i can't find my mistake


Is this a Mailman question?


...
> Nov  7 22:05:11 vps81550 postfix/trivial-rewrite[23471]: warning: mysql
> query failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that
> corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near
> '' at line 1
...
> Here is the content of my mysql_relay_domains :
> 
> hosts = 127.0.0.1
> user = user
> password = password
> dbname = dbname
> query = SELECT domain FROM domain WHERE domain='%s' and backupmx =


If I had to guess it's complaining that there is nothing following
'backupmx ='

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  8 19:00:48 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 16:00:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>

On 11/07/2017 10:41 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 11/07/2017 01:29 AM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
>> I run a low-volume mailing list (using Mailman 2.1.12) and I see that a
>> few spam-messages have gotten through, which also means they're archived.
>> I would like to remove them but all the info I can find when searching
>> online are along the lines of "hard to do", "shouldn't be attempted",
>> "impossible" and so on. Is this correct, or is there a solution?
> 
> man mmarch


Which is apparently some packager's version of Mailman's bin/arch


> I haven't done this in forever but IIRC the scary hard to do impossible
> part is editing the mbox file without messing it up, not exactly rocket
> science.


This method, editing the cumulative archive mbox and rebuilding the
archive is the "best" way, but it is not without caveats.

The FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030681> describes this method and
it's caveats along with the method of just editing or removing the HTML
files.

Note that removing the HTML files leaves broken links in the various
index files. It is better to just edit out the "body".

However, whatever you do to the HTML doesn't affect the periodic
.txt(.gz) files unless you edit those too.

If you want to remove the Subject: headers from the index files, this is
possible to do properly with the script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hdfix> (mirrored at
<https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/hdfix>, but the best way to
remove stuff from the archive without side effects is to edit the
message bodies and perhaps subjects in the cumulative archive mbox,
check the mbox with Mailman's bin/cleanarch and maybe
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/check_arch> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/check_arch>), and then run
Mailman's bin/arch --wipe.

But read the FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030681> in it's entirety
including all the notes and caveats.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Wed Nov  8 19:19:50 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 18:19:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 11/08/2017 06:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/07/2017 10:41 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
>>
>> man mmarch
> 
> 
> Which is apparently some packager's version of Mailman's bin/arch

well, given /bin/arch and its importance to packagers and such, you'd
have to agree that bin/arch was perhaps not the best choice of name.
;)
-- 
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu

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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  8 19:39:19 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 16:39:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <18353150-e95d-f33c-fd27-1546a4305c84@msapiro.net>

On 11/08/2017 04:19 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 11/08/2017 06:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> On 11/07/2017 10:41 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
>>>
>>> man mmarch
>>
>>
>> Which is apparently some packager's version of Mailman's bin/arch
> 
> well, given /bin/arch and its importance to packagers and such, you'd
> have to agree that bin/arch was perhaps not the best choice of name.
> ;)


All of Mailman 2.1's command line tools are distributed in Mailman's
bin/ directory. What users/packagers do from there such as symlinking
them from /usr/local/bin or whatever is up to them.

I was only trying to say that the OP might not have a mmarch command or
man page for it.

In MM 3 this changes. All supported tools are sub-commands of one
'mailman' command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Nov 10 02:05:15 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 16:05:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1711071015270.33567@ary.qy>
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
 <1126BEF7-6941-45BF-9BA2-A95B28FAD3B3@msapiro.net>
 <0100015f970c100b-67a7b6ff-b1d4-4dfd-a909-1bb40316f663-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <alpine.OSX.2.21.1711071015270.33567@ary.qy>
Message-ID: <23045.20395.583126.40983@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

John R Levine writes:

 > > Why not, when sending usenet posts to the list, merely change the
 > > 'from' address to yourself (or a special-purpose mailbox, or
 > > something)?  This would require only changes to stuff you made
 > > yourself (the usenet -> list processing).
 > 
 > I'd think the answer was obvious: Because I didn't write the messages, and 
 > I don't want the responses from people who read them.

IIRC we also check Sender and the envelope sender for membership by
default, and if any of them is a member we let it through.  Maybe
there's a dodge in there you can use?


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Nov 10 02:06:11 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 16:06:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dimitri Maziuk writes:

 > well, given /bin/arch and its importance to packagers and such, you'd
 > have to agree that bin/arch was perhaps not the best choice of name.
 > ;)

Yup, and pretty sure Mailman's was first.  There's a reason why
namespaces were invented.

<img src="animated_shade_in_sky.gif">


From maxking at asynchronous.in  Thu Nov  9 18:51:19 2017
From: maxking at asynchronous.in (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 15:51:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
Message-ID: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>

Hello Everyone,

As most of you already know, Mailman 3 is the new and improved version with extra features, better security and much better architecture. We released Mailman Suite 3.0 in April 2015 and have come a long ways since then. Mailman Suite 3.1, release May 2016, was aimed to provide feature-parity with Mailman 2.x series and we think we _almost_ hit that goal.

Apart from no monthly password reminders, Mailman 3 has a much better Administrator/User interface, REST API for scripting, a really awesome archiver, support for multiple domains, support for external plugins, support for SSO/social login and so much more!

I love working on Mailman and would enjoy being able to do so full time for next 6-8 weeks. Mailman 3 is not very far from becoming the default version everyone would use, but it still needs some work to get there. I need help from you, the users of Mailman, to get us there. If you or your organization would like to move to (or, already moved to) Mailman 3, I urge you to donate[1] to us.

There are options to donate using Credit Card, Paypal, Bitcoin, Wire Transfer (of any currency), Check and money order.

If this campaign succeeds, here is a road map of what I intend to get done:

- Move Django apps(UI/Archiver) to Python 3 (or bilingual)
- Fork `mailman import` command to provide an upgrade path to Mailman 3.x from Mailman 2.x
- Fix MySQL compatibility in Core
- Changes in Postorius:
- Add support for missing options that are already exposed in Core?s API
- e.g. Support for setting templates
- Find the commonly used options that are not exposed in Core, add them to Core's API and add to Postorius
- Add Admin Dashboard project from GSoC 2014 (maybe?)
- Add better testing of container images and provide deployment instructions for Kubernetes & Docker Swarm
- Improve the container images to work with new micro-services architecture, to achieve scaling and redundancy in services.
- Administrator/User documentation for Postorius & Mailman
- (optional) Fork mmcli [3] project from Rajeev, fix if there is anything missing and add it as an additional command line tool to work with Mailman Core. Maybe pull it under Mailman umbrella.

Except for these, if there is something more important that is preventing the adoption of Mailman 3 from your end, we can discuss them. I'd like to mention that I have been working on Mailman 3 for quite some time now and I intend to implement every single item on the list. You donations would help it get done much sooner, hopefully in time for 3.2 release schedule (at PyCon US 2018).

You can follow the progress of this campaign here[2].

[1]: https://my.fsf.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=22
[2]: https://wiki.list.org/x/17892025
[3]: https://github.com/rajeevs1992/mailmancli

thanks,
Abhilash Raj


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Nov 10 14:56:24 2017
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
Message-ID: <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I tried to make a donation -- but was 
unsuccessful. I am a blind screen reader user, 
tried with two different ones, there were 
accessibility problems with the page. I couldn't 
enter my state properly, for some reason. Too much javascript I suspect!

For Mailman 3 accessibility is an very important 
consideration, for me, with the Web UI, as I do 
most of my work with Mailman2 with the web UI, which is pretty accessible!

Thanks!

I will try again, when my sighted daughter gets 
home from school, but it should be easier!

Dave

At 05:51 PM 11/9/2017, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>Hello Everyone, As most of you already know, 
>Mailman 3 is the new and improved version with 
>extra features, better security and much better 
>architecture. We released Mailman Suite 3.0 in 
>April 2015 and have come a long ways since then. 
>Mailman Suite 3.1, release May 2016, was aimed 
>to provide feature-parity with Mailman 2.x 
>series and we think we _almost_ hit that goal. 
>Apart from no monthly password reminders, 
>Mailman 3 has a much better Administrator/User 
>interface, REST API for scripting, a really 
>awesome archiver, support for multiple domains, 
>support for external plugins, support for 
>SSO/social login and so much more! I love 
>working on Mailman and would enjoy being able to 
>do so full time for next 6-8 weeks. Mailman 3 is 
>not very far from becoming the default version 
>everyone would use, but it still needs some work 
>to get there. I need help from you, the users of 
>Mailman, to get us there. If you or your 
>organization would like to move to (or, already 
>moved to) Mailman 3, I urge you to donate[1] to 
>us. There are options to donate using Credit 
>Card, Paypal, Bitcoin, Wire Transfer (of any 
>currency), Check and money order. If this 
>campaign succeeds, here is a road map of what I 
>intend to get done: - Move Django 
>apps(UI/Archiver) to Python 3 (or bilingual) - 
>Fork `mailman import` command to provide an 
>upgrade path to Mailman 3.x from Mailman 2.x - 
>Fix MySQL compatibility in Core - Changes in 
>Postorius: - Add support for missing options 
>that are already exposed in Core???s API - e.g. 
>Support for setting templates - Find the 
>commonly used options that are not exposed in 
>Core, add them to Core's API and add to 
>Postorius - Add Admin Dashboard project from 
>GSoC 2014 (maybe?) - Add better testing of 
>container images and provide deployment 
>instructions for Kubernetes & Docker Swarm - 
>Improve the container images to work with new 
>micro-services architecture, to achieve scaling 
>and redundancy in services. - Administrator/User 
>documentation for Postorius & Mailman - 
>(optional) Fork mmcli [3] project from Rajeev, 
>fix if there is anything missing and add it as 
>an additional command line tool to work with 
>Mailman Core. Maybe pull it under Mailman 
>umbrella. Except for these, if there is 
>something more important that is preventing the 
>adoption of Mailman 3 from your end, we can 
>discuss them. I'd like to mention that I have 
>been working on Mailman 3 for quite some time 
>now and I intend to implement every single item 
>on the list. You donations would help it get 
>done much sooner, hopefully in time for 3.2 
>release schedule (at PyCon US 2018). You can 
>follow the progress of this campaign here[2]. 
>[1]: 
>https://my.fsf.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=22 
>[2]: https://wiki.list.org/x/17892025 [3]: 
>https://github.com/rajeevs1992/mailmancli 
>thanks, Abhilash Raj --------------------------


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 10 16:45:02 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 13:45:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
 <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>

On 11/10/2017 11:56 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> I tried to make a donation -- but was unsuccessful. I am a blind screen
> reader user, tried with two different ones, there were accessibility
> problems with the page. I couldn't enter my state properly, for some
> reason. Too much javascript I suspect!


Dave,

I'm sorry you are having difficulty with this page. It isn't ours. It is
part of the Free Software Foundation's web site. They are the ones that
process our donations.

I suspect the difficulty is the "state" field on that form is a
drop-down list. It you start typing, the list is narrowed to only the
matches, but you still ultimately have to select a state from the list,
even if it's a list of one.

I will forward your message to webmaster at fsf.org.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From johnl at taugh.com  Fri Nov 10 16:59:47 2017
From: johnl at taugh.com (John R Levine)
Date: 10 Nov 2017 16:59:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress moderation message in mailman 2.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <23045.20395.583126.40983@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
 <1126BEF7-6941-45BF-9BA2-A95B28FAD3B3@msapiro.net>
 <0100015f970c100b-67a7b6ff-b1d4-4dfd-a909-1bb40316f663-000000@email.amazonses.com>
 <alpine.OSX.2.21.1711071015270.33567@ary.qy>
 <23045.20395.583126.40983@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1711101658550.4867@ary.local>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > 'from' address to yourself (or a special-purpose mailbox, or
> > > something)?  This would require only changes to stuff you made
> > > yourself (the usenet -> list processing).
> >
> > I'd think the answer was obvious: Because I didn't write the messages, and
> > I don't want the responses from people who read them.
>
> IIRC we also check Sender and the envelope sender for membership by
> default, and if any of them is a member we let it through.  Maybe
> there's a dodge in there you can use?

I could add an approved header, but then I'd be passing spam in the usenet 
group onto the list.  I can catch the most obvious stuff, but some would 
leak.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl at taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Nov 10 22:03:16 2017
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 21:03:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
 <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000093890455@mailfront1.g2host.com>

At 03:45 PM 11/10/2017, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>On 11/10/2017 11:56 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> > I tried to make a donation -- but was unsuccessful. I am a blind screen
> > reader user, tried with two different ones, there were accessibility
> > problems with the page. I couldn't enter my state properly, for some
> > reason. Too much javascript I suspect!
>
>
>Dave,
>
>I'm sorry you are having difficulty with this page. It isn't ours. It is
>part of the Free Software Foundation's web site. They are the ones that
>process our donations.
>
>I suspect the difficulty is the "state" field on that form is a
>drop-down list. It you start typing, the list is narrowed to only the
>matches, but you still ultimately have to select a state from the list,
>even if it's a list of one.

Thanks as always, you are right, it is a drop-down that didn't behave 
as they normally do. People have to be different, and fancy.

I had my 14 year-old daughter fill it out for me!

Dave



From mathieu at 400iso.net  Sat Nov 11 09:26:17 2017
From: mathieu at 400iso.net (Mathieu R.)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 09:26:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] create lists in web interface
Message-ID: <CAEUXyF8zKO4NYtw4f00ptHQRJmB=NjWVTG4yBxx9Q6b8BeNMbA@mail.gmail.com>

I just installed a fonctionnal mailman server.
with command line interface, everything is ok, but when i try to use the
web interface to create lists, i run into the following error :


Nov 11 09:21:12 vps81550 postfix/postalias[6036]: fatal: open
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied

i tried to add postfix user to list group, but it does not change a thing.

i'm on debian, with postfix

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 11 11:48:04 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 08:48:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] create lists in web interface
In-Reply-To: <CAEUXyF8zKO4NYtw4f00ptHQRJmB=NjWVTG4yBxx9Q6b8BeNMbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEUXyF8zKO4NYtw4f00ptHQRJmB=NjWVTG4yBxx9Q6b8BeNMbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d43da0f-272c-b6b0-5dd4-cf3f687ef08e@msapiro.net>

On 11/11/2017 06:26 AM, Mathieu R. wrote:
> I just installed a fonctionnal mailman server.
> with command line interface, everything is ok, but when i try to use the
> web interface to create lists, i run into the following error :
> 
> 
> Nov 11 09:21:12 vps81550 postfix/postalias[6036]: fatal: open
> /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied
> 
> i tried to add postfix user to list group, but it does not change a thing.
> 
> i'm on debian, with postfix


Please see <https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>

That said, Assuming the Mailman user is 'list' as it normally is in a
Debian package installation, the mode and ownership of
/var/lib/mailman/data should be

drwxrwsr-x 3 root    list

Owner (root in this example) doesn't matter, but group 'list' and SETGID
are important. aliases(.db) should be

-rw-rw-r-- 1 root    list ... aliases
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list    list ... aliases.db

Again the owner of aliases doesn't matter but the owner of aliases.db
and the group of both should be 'list'.

Also, all the wrappers in /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ should be group
'list' and SETGID.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mathieu at 400iso.net  Sat Nov 11 12:03:27 2017
From: mathieu at 400iso.net (Mathieu R.)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:03:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] create lists in web interface
In-Reply-To: <1d43da0f-272c-b6b0-5dd4-cf3f687ef08e@msapiro.net>
References: <CAEUXyF8zKO4NYtw4f00ptHQRJmB=NjWVTG4yBxx9Q6b8BeNMbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1d43da0f-272c-b6b0-5dd4-cf3f687ef08e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAEUXyF8Y1mnuip=qBC0aD2h758HZ_ojMjt3SwEiAYOdb6OGT-w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, it work perfectly


2017-11-11 11:48 GMT-05:00 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> On 11/11/2017 06:26 AM, Mathieu R. wrote:
> > I just installed a fonctionnal mailman server.
> > with command line interface, everything is ok, but when i try to use the
> > web interface to create lists, i run into the following error :
> >
> >
> > Nov 11 09:21:12 vps81550 postfix/postalias[6036]: fatal: open
> > /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied
> >
> > i tried to add postfix user to list group, but it does not change a
> thing.
> >
> > i'm on debian, with postfix
>
>
> Please see <https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>
>
> That said, Assuming the Mailman user is 'list' as it normally is in a
> Debian package installation, the mode and ownership of
> /var/lib/mailman/data should be
>
> drwxrwsr-x 3 root    list
>
> Owner (root in this example) doesn't matter, but group 'list' and SETGID
> are important. aliases(.db) should be
>
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root    list ... aliases
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list    list ... aliases.db
>
> Again the owner of aliases doesn't matter but the owner of aliases.db
> and the group of both should be 'list'.
>
> Also, all the wrappers in /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ should be group
> 'list' and SETGID.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> mathieu%40400iso.net
>

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Sat Nov 11 12:26:17 2017
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 18:26:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
 <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <a659ba5c-24e2-f02e-f2ec-e0265cb272b3@yahoo.no>

On 10/11/17 22:45, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/10/2017 11:56 AM, David Andrews wrote:
>> I tried to make a donation -- but was unsuccessful. I am a blind screen
>> reader user, tried with two different ones, there were accessibility
>> problems with the page. I couldn't enter my state properly, for some
>> reason. Too much javascript I suspect!
> 
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I'm sorry you are having difficulty with this page. It isn't ours. It is
> part of the Free Software Foundation's web site. They are the ones that
> process our donations.


It's apparently working now. At least for me and using Paypal.


Hal

From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Sat Nov 11 13:17:15 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:17:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 2017-11-10 01:06, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Dimitri Maziuk writes:
> 
>   > well, given /bin/arch and its importance to packagers and such, you'd
>   > have to agree that bin/arch was perhaps not the best choice of name.
>   > ;)
> 
> Yup, and pretty sure Mailman's was first.  There's a reason why
> namespaces were invented.

Heh. You made me look. No, contrary to the popular belief LiGNUx did not 
invent the world, nor did mailman invent "arch". Sunos had it since 
forever, but it appears nobody else did. Somehow it made its way into 
linux and apparently everyone's been trying to get rid of it ever since. 
Including sunos.
<useless things I learn over Saturday morning coffee/>

Dima

From phils at caerllewys.net  Sat Nov 11 13:22:27 2017
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 13:22:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>

On 11/11/17 13:17, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> Heh. You made me look. No, contrary to the popular belief LiGNUx did not 
> invent the world, nor did mailman invent "arch". Sunos had it since 
> forever, but it appears nobody else did. Somehow it made its way into 
> linux and apparently everyone's been trying to get rid of it ever since. 
> Including sunos.

Heh, I just looked at that myself.  How did such a useless tool ever
become standard?


-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: +1.603.293.8485
  Mobile:   +1.603.998.6958

From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Sat Nov 11 14:04:41 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 13:04:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>
Message-ID: <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 2017-11-11 12:22, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> 
> Heh, I just looked at that myself.  How did such a useless tool ever
> become standard?

My guess is IIRC SunOS was on Solaris 8 by 2001, and it was *the* 
grown-up 64-bit unix: every other unix vendor's keeled over or was about 
to and x86_64 didn't exist. So it was a standard utility on the standard 
unix by the time when posix decided in 2001 The Standard Shall Be That 
Other Thing. Good thing about standards, as we all know, is there's 
plenty to choose from.

Dima

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Sat Nov 11 17:28:36 2017
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 23:28:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>

On 07/11/17 19:41, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 11/07/2017 01:29 AM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
>> I run a low-volume mailing list (using Mailman 2.1.12) and I see that a
>> few spam-messages have gotten through, which also means they're archived.
>> I would like to remove them but all the info I can find when searching
>> online are along the lines of "hard to do", "shouldn't be attempted",
>> "impossible" and so on. Is this correct, or is there a solution?
> 
> man mmarch
> 
> I haven't done this in forever but IIRC the scary hard to do impossible
> part is editing the mbox file without messing it up, not exactly rocket
> science.

So you're saying it's *NOT* hard to do?
I looked up "mmarch" and came up with this page which really didn't make 
me much wiser: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man8/mmarch.8.html

I also tried to log into the server and believe they're located 
somewhere here: /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/

unfortunately I'm unable to access that location ("permission denied") 
for some reason, so I'm contacting the server owner about that. But 
several years ago I did a lot of work cleaning up and importing archived 
messages from before I moved over to Mailman and made backups of said 
directory and it seems I have two main directories:

/var/lib/mailman/archives_BACKUP/private/LISTNAME/
and
/var/lib/mailman/archives_BACKUP/private/LISTNAME.mbox/

The "LISTNAME.mbox/" directory contains a single "LISTNAME.mbox" file 
while the "LISTNAME/" directory contains a variety of files and 
sub-directories by month. I suppose I have to clean things up in both of 
those paths?
In the former, if a certain month only contains spam message (i.e. no 
legit postings at all), can I just delete the following for instance and 
be done with it?

rm -riv 2017-October/
rm -iv 2017-October.txt
rm -iv 2017-October.txt.gz

That would still leave spam in the "mbox" file, but at least when 
browsing through the archives via the web interface they wouldn't see 
any spam there.


Hal

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 11 18:19:21 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 15:19:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>

On 11/11/2017 02:28 PM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> I also tried to log into the server and believe they're located
> somewhere here: /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/


That's where they should be.


> unfortunately I'm unable to access that location ("permission denied")
> for some reason,

It is not uncommon for /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ to not be
readable/searchable by other than the web server user or Mailman's group.

Whatever is done, needs to be done by someone with write access to that
directory.

> so I'm contacting the server owner about that. But
> several years ago I did a lot of work cleaning up and importing archived
> messages from before I moved over to Mailman and made backups of said
> directory and it seems I have two main directories:
> 
> /var/lib/mailman/archives_BACKUP/private/LISTNAME/
> and
> /var/lib/mailman/archives_BACKUP/private/LISTNAME.mbox/


That's correct, but of course the back ups would not have any more
recent posts.


> The "LISTNAME.mbox/" directory contains a single "LISTNAME.mbox" file
> while the "LISTNAME/" directory contains a variety of files and
> sub-directories by month. I suppose I have to clean things up in both of
> those paths?

That depends. The easiest way to do it completely and correctly is to
edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file and replace the spam bodies
with "spam removed" or some such text and similarly for the Subject:
headers, but leave the edited messages there so messages aren't
renumbered when you do the next step.

Then rebuild the archives in the LISTNAME/ directory with Mailman's

bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME

(Mailman's bin/arch is what Dimitri referred to as mmarch)

You might review this entire thread beginning at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-November/082712.html>
including
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-November/082722.html>
which refers you to <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030681> which discusses
all the options in detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Sat Nov 11 18:58:36 2017
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 00:58:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
 <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <ca40b750-99cf-d090-8f87-98b6a5bfd4ff@yahoo.no>

On 12/11/17 00:19, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/11/2017 02:28 PM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:

>> unfortunately I'm unable to access that location ("permission denied")
>> for some reason,
> 
> It is not uncommon for /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ to not be
> readable/searchable by other than the web server user or Mailman's group.
> 
> Whatever is done, needs to be done by someone with write access to that
> directory.

Would adding me as a member to the Mailman group be the "safest" option?
Safest meaning that the web-server owner not having to risk me messing 
up the whole server or something, while still letting me do cleanup work 
(or anything else related to the list configuration etc)?



>> so I'm contacting the server owner about that. But
>> several years ago I did a lot of work cleaning up and importing archived
>> messages from before I moved over to Mailman and made backups of said
>> directory and it seems I have two main directories:
>>
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives_BACKUP/private/LISTNAME/
>> and
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives_BACKUP/private/LISTNAME.mbox/
> 
> 
> That's correct, but of course the back ups would not have any more
> recent posts.

Yes, true.
But being able to access those backups gave me some insight in the 
file/folder structure.
I'll be sure to make backups of everything before messing around with 
the new postings as well.



> 
>> The "LISTNAME.mbox/" directory contains a single "LISTNAME.mbox" file
>> while the "LISTNAME/" directory contains a variety of files and
>> sub-directories by month. I suppose I have to clean things up in both of
>> those paths?
> 
> That depends. The easiest way to do it completely and correctly is to
> edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file and replace the spam bodies
> with "spam removed" or some such text and similarly for the Subject:
> headers, but leave the edited messages there so messages aren't
> renumbered when you do the next step.

Excellent suggestion!
Does this apply even if say October only contains one posting, which is 
spam? Would that mess up the next month's postings (if any)?


> 
> Then rebuild the archives in the LISTNAME/ directory with Mailman's
> 
> bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME
> 
> (Mailman's bin/arch is what Dimitri referred to as mmarch)
> 
> You might review this entire thread beginning at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-November/082712.html>
> including
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-November/082722.html>
> which refers you to <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030681> which discusses
> all the options in detail.

Thanks. Just what I needed.
I see it's well explained, but I'll probably read it through a few times 
before attempting to do this due to the complexity.

I read about the Mailman 3 development and I'm wondering if chances are 
that it'll ever become a matter of "point & click" to maintain such a 
mailing list, or will there always be the need to "deep dive" with UNIX 
commands and other complexities?


Hal

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 11 20:10:20 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 17:10:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <ca40b750-99cf-d090-8f87-98b6a5bfd4ff@yahoo.no>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
 <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
 <ca40b750-99cf-d090-8f87-98b6a5bfd4ff@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <bd040669-fd4d-7231-57d2-6d208bd5598e@msapiro.net>

On 11/11/2017 03:58 PM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On 12/11/17 00:19, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Whatever is done, needs to be done by someone with write access to that
>> directory.
> 
> Would adding me as a member to the Mailman group be the "safest" option?
> Safest meaning that the web-server owner not having to risk me messing
> up the whole server or something, while still letting me do cleanup work
> (or anything else related to the list configuration etc)?


It would allow you to do what you need (and to "mess up" Mailman ;)
without giving you root or sudo.


>> That depends. The easiest way to do it completely and correctly is to
>> edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file and replace the spam bodies
>> with "spam removed" or some such text and similarly for the Subject:
>> headers, but leave the edited messages there so messages aren't
>> renumbered when you do the next step.
> 
> Excellent suggestion!
> Does this apply even if say October only contains one posting, which is
> spam? Would that mess up the next month's postings (if any)?


The issue is that every message in the archive has a URL. Those URLs
contain a sequence number. If you delete messages from the .mbox and
rebuild, the sequence numbers and hence the URLs of the subsequent
messages change. If someone has a link to one of those messages, it no
longer points to the correct one.

If you don't care about this, you can delete messages from the .mbox,
but if you want the URLs to be stable, you can't.


> I read about the Mailman 3 development and I'm wondering if chances are
> that it'll ever become a matter of "point & click" to maintain such a
> mailing list, or will there always be the need to "deep dive" with UNIX
> commands and other complexities?


We're working on it. The MM 3 core engine is controlled by a RESTful
HTTP API. The GNU Mailman project also includes web applications for
list management (Postorius) and archiving (HyperKitty), but these are
not required. You can build your own and others may be contributed in
the future.

The current state of Postorius is many list settings are still not
exposed there. Enough is to make lists that work, but things are missing
that currently would need to be set by command line tools.

HyperKitty is quite functional. It's message and thread URLs are stable
and predictable, and you can delete archived messages via the web UI.

We wiil eventually get to a point where everything can be managed via a
web UI.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mailman at jordan.maileater.net  Sat Nov 11 19:34:12 2017
From: mailman at jordan.maileater.net (Jordan Brown)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 16:34:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>
 <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <8408ce1f-e377-1384-8419-56d6a27bbb84@maileater.net>

On 11/11/2017 11:04 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 2017-11-11 12:22, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>> Heh, I just looked at that myself.? How did such a useless tool ever
>> become standard?
> My guess is IIRC SunOS was on Solaris 8 by 2001, and it was *the*
> grown-up 64-bit unix: every other unix vendor's keeled over or was
> about to and x86_64 didn't exist. So it was a standard utility on the
> standard unix by the time when posix decided in 2001 The Standard
> Shall Be That Other Thing. Good thing about standards, as we all know,
> is there's plenty to choose from. 

arch(1) dates back to at least SunOS 4.0, ca 1987.? I haven't been able
to find manual pages before that.

The competitor, "uname -m", dates back at least that far, in the System
V branch of UNIX - it's in the SVID in 1986.

Much before that you find the "machid" system-type commands, e.g. the
"vax" command that succeeds on a vax and fails on all other systems.?
(and: sun, iAPX286, i386, m68k, pdp11, sparc, u3b, u3b2, u3b5, u3b15.)?
Those are still present at SunOS 4.0, but not in SVID.? (Strangely, I
don't see them in BSD 4.x.? I dimly remember them existing in a BSD
derivative ca 1985.)

UNIX v7 (my manual ? 1979, 1983) does not have any of those.? I suspect
that at that time there was only Zool.? Er, PDP-11.

So I think the simple answer is that both the Sun/Berkeley fork and the
AT&T/SysV fork realized the need for a better answer than the "machid"
commands, and independently invented different answers.


From kapuzino at online.de  Sun Nov 12 01:34:48 2017
From: kapuzino at online.de (Kapuzino)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:34:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without localhost
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
Message-ID: <DM__171112073417_89020641523@smtp.1und1.de>

Hello 

Long time ago I asked, why Mailman delivers only to server-internal recipients. 
We found out, that the reason was the removed localhost from whitelist in plesk outbound filter. 
My hoster (I'm only custumer) could not bring to function the recommended solutions, either connecting to a new free port or to a port with authetication. 
He was doubtful to apply the patch, described in https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558281 . 

Now I changed the hoster, but his Mailman works in the same manner. 
I suspect, every lowcoast hoster has configured his apache-plesk-package in the same way, I wil be the only one mailman.user, and the operator is not familar to that. 

Is there meanwhile an implementation of this patch in newer version, so an reinstallation of MM gives secure and easy adjustments for that case? 
Or a foolproof step by step instruction to fix it ? 

greats 
Kapuzino

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 12 11:59:25 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 08:59:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without localhost
In-Reply-To: <DM__171112073417_89020641523@smtp.1und1.de>
References: <20171107032511.22707.qmail@ary.lan>
 <DM__171112073417_89020641523@smtp.1und1.de>
Message-ID: <1718b298-3432-5edf-77e2-6c7e330b31ab@msapiro.net>

On 11/11/2017 10:34 PM, Kapuzino wrote:

> He was doubtful to apply the patch, described in https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558281 . 
...
> Is there meanwhile an implementation of this patch in newer version, so an reinstallation of MM gives secure and easy adjustments for that case? 


That "bug" was fixed in Mailman 2.1.23 released over a year ago
(27-Aug-2016). Any 2.1.23 or later Mailman should have this feature.


> Or a foolproof step by step instruction to fix it ? 


Nothing is foolproof ;)

The actual patch is at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1649>.
To apply it in an older Mailman, go to that link and click the "download
diff" link to obtain the actual patch. To apply the patch to an
installed Mailman, change the first 3 lines from

=== modified file 'Mailman/Defaults.py.in'
--- Mailman/Defaults.py.in	2016-04-21 15:01:01 +0000
+++ Mailman/Defaults.py.in	2016-05-06 21:44:28 +0000

to

=== modified file 'Mailman/Defaults.py'
--- Mailman/Defaults.py		2016-04-21 15:01:01 +0000
+++ Mailman/Defaults.py		2016-05-06 21:44:28 +0000

I.e. change Defaults.py.in to Defaults.py and delete the lines beginning
with

=== modified file 'NEWS'
--- NEWS	2016-05-05 01:27:19 +0000
+++ NEWS	2016-05-06 21:44:28 +0000

Then, if you don't know how to apply the resulting patch, you probably
shouldn't be doing it, but with the modified patch in a file, cd to the
directory containing the Mailman/ directory and do

patch -p0 < /the/file/containing/the/patch

You will then have to set things like

SMTP_AUTH, SMTP_USER, SMTP_PASSWD, SMTP_USE_TLS, SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT
in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 12 12:45:13 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 11:45:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
 <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <2afe77a4-f7c5-ee31-1f79-f890249d3bbc@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 2017-11-11 17:19, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/11/2017 02:28 PM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
...
>> The "LISTNAME.mbox/" directory contains a single "LISTNAME.mbox" file
>> while the "LISTNAME/" directory contains a variety of files and
>> sub-directories by month. I suppose I have to clean things up in both of
>> those paths?

The latter is auto-generated from the former by the (bin/|mm)arch.

> That depends. The easiest way to do it completely and correctly is to
> edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file and replace the spam bodies
> with "spam removed" or some such text and similarly for the Subject:
> headers, but leave the edited messages there so messages aren't
> renumbered when you do the next step.

Note that this only really matters if you think/know people have 
hyperlinks to archived messages *and* you care about not breaking those 
links. E.g. this link would be broken if the messages get renumbered:

> You might review this entire thread beginning at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-November/082712.html>
...

However if Mark said "you might review the entire thread titled 
'Removing archived spam' at 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-November/thread.html" 
it wouldn't be a problem.

I think in terms of teh amount of work involved there is no much 
difference between deleting the entire message from .mbox file vs. 
deleting only the body and updating the subject. So you might as well do 
it right: Mark's way.

Dima

From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 12 13:06:29 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 12:06:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <8408ce1f-e377-1384-8419-56d6a27bbb84@maileater.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>
 <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <8408ce1f-e377-1384-8419-56d6a27bbb84@maileater.net>
Message-ID: <4dd5a538-4c89-74d0-1972-7035bed0d08b@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 2017-11-11 18:34, Jordan Brown wrote:

> arch(1) dates back to at least SunOS 4.0, ca 1987.? I haven't been able 
> to find manual pages before that.
> 
> The competitor, "uname -m", dates back at least that far, in the System 
> V branch of UNIX - it's in the SVID in 1986.

...

> So I think the simple answer is that both the Sun/Berkeley fork and the 
> AT&T/SysV fork realized the need for a better answer than the "machid" 
> commands, and independently invented different answers.

By the time posix committee got to writing the standard about the only 
other unix vendors left standing were ibm and sun. So they picked the 
big iron way.

Whereas I've never seen an aches box in use in a cs department. It's all 
sparks. My guess is cs students playing with linux were shaping it the 
sunos way simply because of that. And by then a decade's worth of sunos 
shell scripts that called /bin/arch.

(Sun ran a 50% educational discount since I got to write purchase orders 
and until they went amd and lost the profit margin.)

Dima



From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 12 13:13:17 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 12:13:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <4dd5a538-4c89-74d0-1972-7035bed0d08b@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>
 <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <8408ce1f-e377-1384-8419-56d6a27bbb84@maileater.net>
 <4dd5a538-4c89-74d0-1972-7035bed0d08b@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <43063d06-8209-5e32-3aba-c7dbd687618d@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 2017-11-12 12:06, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:

> other unix vendors
^^^^^^^

braino. "the only unix vendors left standing".

Dima


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Nov 13 00:35:45 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:35:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <a659ba5c-24e2-f02e-f2ec-e0265cb272b3@yahoo.no>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
 <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>
 <a659ba5c-24e2-f02e-f2ec-e0265cb272b3@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <23049.12081.796576.412679@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hal via Mailman-Users writes:

 > [The FSF donation page for GNU Mailman is] apparently working now.
 > At least for me and using Paypal.

Do you mean you used it with a screen reader for the visually
impaired?  If so, what screen reader were you using?

Steve


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Nov 13 00:37:43 2017
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:37:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <23049.12199.160897.300076@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dimitri Maziuk writes:

 > Heh. You made me look. No, contrary to the popular belief LiGNUx did not 
 > invent the world,

There is no such thing as LiGNUx.  Stallman may have his fingers in a
lot of software (to my everlasting annoyance; he wrote, and at last
check circa 2013 continues to write, some of the most unmaintainable
and uncomposable crap), but he didn't invent the world either (he does
seem to have independently invented #AlternativeFacts, though).

 > nor did mailman invent "arch".

Independent invention, apparently. :-)

 > Sunos had it since forever, but it appears nobody else did. Somehow
 > it made its way into linux

If it is in POSIX, as Phil implies, that would explain it.  By the
time it made it into Linux distros, most of them were pretty serious
about POSIX compatibility.

 > and apparently everyone's been trying to get rid of it ever
 > since. Including sunos.

Do you have a citation for this history?  I like to collect

 > <useless things I learn over Saturday morning coffee/>

ha ha


-- 
Associate Professor              Division of Policy and Planning Science
http://turnbull/sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/     Faculty of Systems and Information
Email: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp                   University of Tsukuba
Tel: 029-853-5175                 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Mon Nov 13 10:50:16 2017
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:50:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <23049.12081.796576.412679@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
 <auto-000093872590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
 <cb07d0a4-f376-04ee-91cf-c7f46df06f5d@msapiro.net>
 <a659ba5c-24e2-f02e-f2ec-e0265cb272b3@yahoo.no>
 <23049.12081.796576.412679@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <98c441e4-240f-56df-e26a-d6165b60e488@yahoo.no>

On 13/11/17 06:35, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Hal via Mailman-Users writes:
> 
>   > [The FSF donation page for GNU Mailman is] apparently working now.
>   > At least for me and using Paypal.
> 
> Do you mean you used it with a screen reader for the visually
> impaired?  If so, what screen reader were you using?

I'm sorry, I replied too quickly to your posting, missing the part about 
the screen reader.
I use a normal screen, so please disregard my reply.


Hal

From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Mon Nov 13 12:49:36 2017
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:49:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <2ee0f4e3-b13b-3e88-9e3b-79a44ae4f7fc@caerllewys.net>
 <35f848be-ab2a-daf3-71d2-a6e2819428e6@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <ab165982-5420-c60a-9e28-b305e17ddd2f@sgeinc.com>

https://xkcd.com/927/

On 11/11/2017 2:04 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 2017-11-11 12:22, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>>
>> Heh, I just looked at that myself.? How did such a useless tool ever
>> become standard?
[snip]

From guest2 at sgeinc.com  Mon Nov 13 12:57:01 2017
From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:57:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Funding Campaign for GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
References: <local-187c62cc-3595@angel>
Message-ID: <cc3844e5-07ed-3d4c-8ed2-a539d393b598@sgeinc.com>

I'm on the MM3 mailing list.  Based on what I've been seeing without 
spending a lot of time researching things, MM# does not seem stable.  It 
seems somewhere in the alpha/beta range, but closer to alpha status. 
The problem does not seem to be with the MM3 code so much as it depends 
on a lot of other packages and they seem to be in somewhat of a state of 
flux causing MM3 to be temperamental and not always work right due to 
the changes in these packages.

It feels too much like the bleeding edge of technology to me at this time.

On 11/9/2017 6:51 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote:
[snip]

From eminmn at sysmatrix.net  Mon Nov 13 19:03:29 2017
From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (eminmn)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:03:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <23049.12199.160897.300076@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23049.12199.160897.300076@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <f8b61707-d80a-07dc-3722-72398483879a@sysmatrix.net>

Steve:

On 11/12/2017 23:37, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Dimitri Maziuk writes:
> 
>   > Heh. You made me look. No, contrary to the popular belief LiGNUx did not
>   > invent the world,
> 
> There is no such thing as LiGNUx.  Stallman may have his fingers in a
> lot of software (to my everlasting annoyance; he wrote, and at last
> check circa 2013 continues to write, some of the most unmaintainable
> and uncomposable crap), but he didn't invent the world either (he does
> seem to have independently invented #AlternativeFacts, though).

Everybody knows that the correct term is Glunix; Lignux is just one of 
Glunix's lugnuts. In re RMS's coding and cognitive style, it's possible 
that you just don't see the big picture. * Anyway, I think there are a 
few million people around the world who are aware of his contribution to 
freedom of computation. I've heard of Japan, but not Professor Turnbull 
nor even Tsukuba. Amoris umbra invidia.

Btw, I find 'incompossible' and 'uncompilable' but not your neologism.

* If his coding is no longer up to snuff maye it's because he's devoting 
his attention to even more important matters.

ed


> 
>   > nor did mailman invent "arch".
> 
> Independent invention, apparently. :-)
> 
>   > Sunos had it since forever, but it appears nobody else did. Somehow
>   > it made its way into linux
> 
> If it is in POSIX, as Phil implies, that would explain it.  By the
> time it made it into Linux distros, most of them were pretty serious
> about POSIX compatibility.
> 
>   > and apparently everyone's been trying to get rid of it ever
>   > since. Including sunos.
> 
> Do you have a citation for this history?  I like to collect
> 
>   > <useless things I learn over Saturday morning coffee/>
> 
> ha ha
> 
> 

From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 13 19:28:30 2017
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:28:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <f8b61707-d80a-07dc-3722-72398483879a@sysmatrix.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23049.12199.160897.300076@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <f8b61707-d80a-07dc-3722-72398483879a@sysmatrix.net>
Message-ID: <22574319-2d59-89b6-51dd-9bdf24f66523@bmrb.wisc.edu>

On 11/13/2017 06:03 PM, eminmn wrote:
> Steve:
> 
> On 11/12/2017 23:37, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> Dimitri Maziuk writes:
>>
>> ? > Heh. You made me look. No, contrary to the popular belief LiGNUx
>> did not
>> ? > invent the world,
>>
>> There is no such thing as LiGNUx.? Stallman may have his fingers in a
>> lot of software (to my everlasting annoyance; he wrote, and at last
>> check circa 2013 continues to write, some of the most unmaintainable
>> and uncomposable crap), but he didn't invent the world either (he does
>> seem to have independently invented #AlternativeFacts, though).
> 
> Everybody knows that the correct term is Glunix; Lignux is just one of
> Glunix's lugnuts.

Actually, I was commenting on Stephen's "pretty sure Mailman's was
first" -- some other mail man's might have been, but this GNU Mailman's
wasn't.

-- 
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu

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From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Nov 13 19:25:45 2017
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:25:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <f8b61707-d80a-07dc-3722-72398483879a@sysmatrix.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <677c0f99-083c-7680-642e-025ab8638756@msapiro.net>
 <991840e7-5f74-5daf-d8a6-22daaf8e0ab5@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23045.20451.967499.737898@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <b8afe897-f15e-02b0-2d36-a18d727ec07f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <23049.12199.160897.300076@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <f8b61707-d80a-07dc-3722-72398483879a@sysmatrix.net>
Message-ID: <ac124bb9-1902-828e-08c8-a77dc20a0e23@tuunq.com>

On 11/13/2017 4:03 PM, eminmn wrote:
> Anyway, I think there are a few million people around the world who are 
> aware of his contribution to freedom of computation

And his anti-contributions?

Anyway, since this is rather far removed from mailman v2, can we give it a rest.

z!

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Nov 13 23:02:40 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:02:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
Message-ID: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>

I need to change the url for accepting messages that are deferred within
and need to be handled by the lists admin page.  The submit button is
pointed to a dead URL and I need to change it to list.myurl.com


Ruben

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Nov 13 23:27:00 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:27:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
Message-ID: <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>

On 11/13/2017 08:02 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> I need to change the url for accepting messages that are deferred within
> and need to be handled by the lists admin page.  The submit button is
> pointed to a dead URL and I need to change it to list.myurl.com


See this FAQ <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030592>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Mon Nov 13 23:55:26 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:55:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>

On 11/13/2017 11:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/13/2017 08:02 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> I need to change the url for accepting messages that are deferred within
>> and need to be handled by the lists admin page.  The submit button is
>> pointed to a dead URL and I need to change it to list.myurl.com
> 
> 
> See this FAQ <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030592>.
> 


I saw that page.  I don't see how it helps.  It doesn't tell me how the
form action is populated.  I have two lists.  One was working on
lists.url.com and the other was working on www.url2.org, both virtual
domains on apache

www.url2.org has been moved and I need to change that submit button,
which seems to be nearly uniquely populated, to
lists.url.com(/mailman/admindb/listname)

For that list that was originally on www.url2.org, I can access
everything but the form action/submit button on
http://lists.url.com/mailman/admindb/listname

<form action="http://www.url.org/mailman/admindb/listname" method="POST">
....
<hr><center><input name="discardalldefersp" value="0"
type="CHECKBOX">&nbsp;Discard all messages marked
<em>Defer</em></center><center><input name="submit" value="Submit All
Data" type="SUBMIT"></center>

and it needs to change only for listname and not otherlistname
-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 14 00:13:44 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:13:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
 <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
Message-ID: <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>

On 11/13/2017 08:55 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 11/13/2017 11:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> On 11/13/2017 08:02 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>>> I need to change the url for accepting messages that are deferred within
>>> and need to be handled by the lists admin page.  The submit button is
>>> pointed to a dead URL and I need to change it to list.myurl.com


You need to change the web_page_url attribute of the list. The proper
way to do that is to have the correct add_virtualhost entries in
mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url for the list with a command something like

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME --urlhost=list.myurl.com

(bin/ in the above is Mailman's bin/ directory) If you don't have a
proper add_virtualhost('list.myurl.com', ...) in mm_cfg.py, this may
also change the list's host_name attribute, but you can change that back
via the web admin UI.


>> See this FAQ <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030592>.
>>
> 
> 
> I saw that page.  I don't see how it helps.  It doesn't tell me how the
> form action is populated.


Perhaps I should have mentioned <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030616> as well.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Tue Nov 14 00:34:21 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:34:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
 <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
 <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <58bad9ad-f4ce-fd34-4aa4-54b63de14740@panix.com>

On 11/14/2017 12:13 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/13/2017 08:55 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> On 11/13/2017 11:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> On 11/13/2017 08:02 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>>>> I need to change the url for accepting messages that are deferred within
>>>> and need to be handled by the lists admin page.  The submit button is
>>>> pointed to a dead URL and I need to change it to list.myurl.com
> 
> 
> You need to change the web_page_url attribute of the list. The proper
> way to do that is to have the correct add_virtualhost entries in
> mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url for the list with a command something like
> 
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME --urlhost=list.myurl.com
> 
> (bin/ in the above is Mailman's bin/ directory) If you don't have a
> proper add_virtualhost('list.myurl.com', ...) in mm_cfg.py, this may
> also change the list's host_name attribute, but you can change that back
> via the web admin UI.
> 
> 
>>> See this FAQ <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030592>.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I saw that page.  I don't see how it helps.  It doesn't tell me how the
>> form action is populated.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I should have mentioned <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030616> as well.
> 

right that is what I am saying.  The email domain needs to be
listname at domain.org and the url lists.domain2.org


What it says in the config file doesn't match the docs for fix_url

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 14 00:50:17 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:50:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <58bad9ad-f4ce-fd34-4aa4-54b63de14740@panix.com>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
 <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
 <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>
 <58bad9ad-f4ce-fd34-4aa4-54b63de14740@panix.com>
Message-ID: <6881ab8a-17ac-fb3a-89d8-128b9a22edd5@msapiro.net>

On 11/13/2017 09:34 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
> right that is what I am saying.  The email domain needs to be
> listname at domain.org and the url lists.domain2.org


So, if you have

add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.org', 'domain.org') in mm_cfg.py, just run

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname --urlhost=lists.domain2.org


> What it says in the config file doesn't match the docs for fix_url


I don't understand what you are saying. What doesn't match?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From my_list_address at yahoo.no  Tue Nov 14 06:44:08 2017
From: my_list_address at yahoo.no (Hal)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:44:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <bd040669-fd4d-7231-57d2-6d208bd5598e@msapiro.net>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
 <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
 <ca40b750-99cf-d090-8f87-98b6a5bfd4ff@yahoo.no>
 <bd040669-fd4d-7231-57d2-6d208bd5598e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <56571ecb-72ef-5b91-cf4c-8614ca1e6984@yahoo.no>

On 12/11/17 02:10, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/11/2017 03:58 PM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
>> On 12/11/17 00:19, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Would adding me as a member to the Mailman group be the "safest" option?

> It would allow you to do what you need (and to "mess up" Mailman ;)
> without giving you root or sudo.

Hopefully I won't be doing that, but if I do I won't mess up the entire 
server ;-)
Your (and others') comments on how to solve all this has been very 
helpful. I'll look closer into it when the server owner gives me access 
and hopefully nobody else needs to see that spam.


>> I read about the Mailman 3 development and I'm wondering if chances are
>> that it'll ever become a matter of "point & click" to maintain such a
>> mailing list, or will there always be the need to "deep dive" with UNIX
>> commands and other complexities?
> 
> 
> We're working on it.

Mailman 3 sounds very promising.
Is Postorius and HyperKitty a part of that installation or are we 
talking different software?
Updates and additional software installations are done by the server 
owner, but once I spend the time to figure out what to download from 
where, I understand it's not such a huge and complex job to actually go 
ahead and install it for him.

I'm sure the new version will be announced here :-)

Oh, you mentioned that HyperKitty could be used to delete archived 
messages via the web user-interface. This would of course solve my 
initial problem of deleting those spam messages in a simple and quick 
way without entering the UNIX terminal.


Hal

From mrbrklyn at panix.com  Tue Nov 14 09:52:12 2017
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (mrbrklyn)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:52:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <6881ab8a-17ac-fb3a-89d8-128b9a22edd5@msapiro.net>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
 <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
 <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>
 <58bad9ad-f4ce-fd34-4aa4-54b63de14740@panix.com>
 <6881ab8a-17ac-fb3a-89d8-128b9a22edd5@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <72099a4e-066a-0647-0df4-7984050b7840@panix.com>


what I am saying is that the documentation for fix_url_listname shows a 
single argument and within the file mm_cfg.py if has TWO options with a 
default behavior defined if only one is defined.


So the relationship between the two needs to be documented claerer (imo) 
so the clueless like me have a firmer understanding of the relationship


Thanks!


RIS



On 11/14/2017 12:50 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/13/2017 09:34 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> right that is what I am saying.  The email domain needs to be
>> listname at domain.org and the url lists.domain2.org
>
> So, if you have
>
> add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.org', 'domain.org') in mm_cfg.py, just run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname --urlhost=lists.domain2.org
>
>
>> What it says in the config file doesn't match the docs for fix_url
>
> I don't understand what you are saying. What doesn't match?
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 14 12:55:38 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:55:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam
In-Reply-To: <56571ecb-72ef-5b91-cf4c-8614ca1e6984@yahoo.no>
References: <edb78a0b-206f-8e22-29a9-b885b5b23c85@yahoo.no>
 <05145c85-41b3-2734-5795-87e8cb2691d0@bmrb.wisc.edu>
 <fd9e781f-64e4-0039-d985-d1a114995c8e@yahoo.no>
 <4466b103-1720-d27a-b7b0-9094adf76696@msapiro.net>
 <ca40b750-99cf-d090-8f87-98b6a5bfd4ff@yahoo.no>
 <bd040669-fd4d-7231-57d2-6d208bd5598e@msapiro.net>
 <56571ecb-72ef-5b91-cf4c-8614ca1e6984@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <6c0160f2-c959-fe9b-a17b-e76b6b0d6edc@msapiro.net>

On 11/14/2017 03:44 AM, Hal via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> Mailman 3 sounds very promising.
> Is Postorius and HyperKitty a part of that installation or are we
> talking different software?


Mailman 3 is much more modular than Mailman 2.1 There is a core list
management engine that can run by itself, receive and distribute
messages and do other functions. User's can subscribe and unsubscribe by
email.

The core engine can be configured and lists created, etc. via shell
commands and/or via a RESTful HTTP API which would normally only be
exposed on the local host and is not suitable for end user (subscriber,
list admin) use.

The GNU Mailman project also provides end user, web based tools for list
administration, user subscription, etc. (this is Postorius) and
archiving (this is HyperKitty). These are optional, but are part of the
entire suite of tools.

Currently, no packagers are providing Mailman 3 packages (Debian is
known to be working on it), but presumably, packages would include
Postorius and HyperKitty or alternatives.

One of our developers, Abhilash Raj, maintains Docker container images
for Mailman 3 which include Postorius and HyperKitty. See
<http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html#mailman-3-in-docker> for
info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 14 13:17:17 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 10:17:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <72099a4e-066a-0647-0df4-7984050b7840@panix.com>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
 <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
 <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>
 <58bad9ad-f4ce-fd34-4aa4-54b63de14740@panix.com>
 <6881ab8a-17ac-fb3a-89d8-128b9a22edd5@msapiro.net>
 <72099a4e-066a-0647-0df4-7984050b7840@panix.com>
Message-ID: <7f63e79e-feb4-1bbf-c1eb-cf7629779044@msapiro.net>

On 11/14/2017 06:52 AM, mrbrklyn wrote:
> 
> what I am saying is that the documentation for fix_url_listname shows a
> single argument and within the file mm_cfg.py if has TWO options with a
> default behavior defined if only one is defined.
> 
> 
> So the relationship between the two needs to be documented claerer (imo)
> so the clueless like me have a firmer understanding of the relationship


The documentation for fix_url says

> Options:
>     -u urlhost
>     --urlhost=urlhost
>         Look up urlhost in the virtual host table and set the web_page_url and
>         host_name attributes of the list to the values found.  This
>         essentially moves the list from one virtual domain to another.
> 
>         Without this option, the default web_page_url and host_name values are
>         used.


The documentation in Defaults.py for add_virtualhost() which maintains
the virtual host table referred to in the documentation for fix_url says


> # Mailman needs to know about (at least) two fully-qualified domain names
> # (fqdn); 1) the hostname used in your urls, and 2) the hostname used in email
> # addresses for your domain.  For example, if people visit your Mailman system
> # with "http://www.dom.ain/mailman" then your url fqdn is "www.dom.ain", and
> # if people send mail to your system via "yourlist at dom.ain" then your email
> # fqdn is "dom.ain".  DEFAULT_URL_HOST controls the former, and
> # DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the latter.  Mailman also needs to know how to
> # map from one to the other (this is especially important if you're running
> # with virtual domains).  You use "add_virtualhost(urlfqdn, emailfqdn)" to add
> # new mappings.
> #
> # If you don't need to change DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in your
> # mm_cfg.py, then you're done; the default mapping is added automatically.  If
> # however you change either variable in your mm_cfg.py, then be sure to also
> # include the following:
> #
> #     add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> #
> # because otherwise the default mappings won't be correct.


In other words, fix_url with a -u|--urlhost option witt set the lists
web_page_url attribute based on the provided value and set the list's
host_name attribute to the value obtained by looking up the email host
corresponding to that url host in the virtual host table.

If that is unclear, please suggest exactly what should be changed or
added to make it better.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Nov 14 13:19:04 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 10:19:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing url for administration
In-Reply-To: <7f63e79e-feb4-1bbf-c1eb-cf7629779044@msapiro.net>
References: <0cbd625b-8f7d-1c63-a068-3344fe1508e6@panix.com>
 <43e0cc61-477e-f2f6-9a03-29b95244e727@msapiro.net>
 <375073da-1316-31d3-5632-7e5e552aba35@panix.com>
 <e85986d9-d130-6eee-2e27-e02d11759b33@msapiro.net>
 <58bad9ad-f4ce-fd34-4aa4-54b63de14740@panix.com>
 <6881ab8a-17ac-fb3a-89d8-128b9a22edd5@msapiro.net>
 <72099a4e-066a-0647-0df4-7984050b7840@panix.com>
 <7f63e79e-feb4-1bbf-c1eb-cf7629779044@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <adfc6c5a-5582-74a2-b3f8-e91b159ee32c@msapiro.net>

On 11/14/2017 10:17 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> In other words, fix_url with a -u|--urlhost option witt set the lists

s/witt/will/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From terry at wildworld.net  Fri Nov 17 16:36:28 2017
From: terry at wildworld.net (Terry)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL recipients getting scrambled html messages
Message-ID: <f6e1d1cd-410e-5bce-10d0-92102fcc7643@wildworld.net>

I have a few members in a list that have addresses at AOL.com and lately 
they are reporting that the messages they receive via my distribution 
list are garbled. What's really happening is that aol is displaying raw 
html code to them instead of the message. Below is a short excerpt of 
the start of the messge they receive. There's a strange 
class="aolReplacedBody" in the first few lines that implies that aol is 
really messing with the html.

Any ideas what's happening and how to fix it?
Terry

/SAMPLE OF CORRUPTED EMAIL:
/ /To: members at mydomain.com
Sent: 11/15/2017 4:36:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
Subject: [CSR] Amazingly Awesome Memorial

<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_4219e60e-c0fd-404c-85fc-bed2fc88db83">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; 
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" 
class="aolReplacedBody"><div><blockquote class=""><div dir="ltr" 
class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 
255, 255); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida 
Grande', sans-serif;" class=""><div 
class="m_4319761772406486274yahoo_quoted" 
id="m_4319761772406486274yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1510520612793_65525" 
style="display: block;"><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;" 
id="m_4319761772406486274yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1510520612793_65524" 
class=""><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', 
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;" 
id="m_4319761772406486274yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1510520612793_65523" 
class=""><div........./


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 18 12:22:20 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 09:22:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL recipients getting scrambled html messages
In-Reply-To: <f6e1d1cd-410e-5bce-10d0-92102fcc7643@wildworld.net>
References: <f6e1d1cd-410e-5bce-10d0-92102fcc7643@wildworld.net>
Message-ID: <d50c8a93-fa0f-1c81-22d9-fb18f4642272@msapiro.net>

On 11/17/2017 01:36 PM, Terry wrote:
> I have a few members in a list that have addresses at AOL.com and lately
> they are reporting that the messages they receive via my distribution
> list are garbled. What's really happening is that aol is displaying raw
> html code to them instead of the message. Below is a short excerpt of
> the start of the messge they receive. There's a strange
> class="aolReplacedBody" in the first few lines that implies that aol is
> really messing with the html.
> 
> Any ideas what's happening and how to fix it?


It might help to see the full raw message as received by the AOL users.
To see this in the AOL web UI, open the message and select More -> View
Message Source.

Does your list filter content? If not, It might help to have settings like

filter_content: Yes
pass_mime_types:
  multipart
  message/rfc822
  text/plain
  text/html
 plus whatever other types you want to accept.
collapse_alternatives: Yes
convert_html_to_plaintext: Yes

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Nov 18 12:18:17 2017
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 12:18:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL recipients getting scrambled html messages
In-Reply-To: <f6e1d1cd-410e-5bce-10d0-92102fcc7643@wildworld.net>
References: <f6e1d1cd-410e-5bce-10d0-92102fcc7643@wildworld.net>
Message-ID: <20171118171817.C29C373227D@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

At Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:36:28 -0800 Terry <terry at wildworld.net> wrote:

> 
> I have a few members in a list that have addresses at AOL.com and lately 
> they are reporting that the messages they receive via my distribution 
> list are garbled. What's really happening is that aol is displaying raw 
> html code to them instead of the message. Below is a short excerpt of 
> the start of the messge they receive. There's a strange 
> class="aolReplacedBody" in the first few lines that implies that aol is 
> really messing with the html.
> 
> Any ideas what's happening and how to fix it?

One thing to understand is that if you are adding a Mailman header or footer, 
*Mailman* will want to add that as plain text, so it needs to create a 
multi-part message.  The *easiest* solution is to have Mailman toss the HTML 
and only sent text/plain messages.  Yes on some level this sucks, in that it 
make it impossible to have "formatted" (in the html / rich text sense) 
postings (eg no use of fonts, colored text/backgrounds, inline images, etc.).


> Terry
> 
> /SAMPLE OF CORRUPTED EMAIL:
> / /To: members at mydomain.com
> Sent: 11/15/2017 4:36:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
> Subject: [CSR] Amazingly Awesome Memorial
> 
> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_4219e60e-c0fd-404c-85fc-bed2fc88db83">
> <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; 
> -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" 
> class="aolReplacedBody"><div><blockquote class=""><div dir="ltr" 
> class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 
> 255, 255); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida 
> Grande', sans-serif;" class=""><div 
> class="m_4319761772406486274yahoo_quoted" 
> id="m_4319761772406486274yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1510520612793_65525" 
> style="display: block;"><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 
> Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;" 
> id="m_4319761772406486274yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1510520612793_65524" 
> class=""><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', 
> Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;" 
> id="m_4319761772406486274yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1510520612793_65523" 
> class=""><div........./
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com
> 
>                         

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                      

From harmen at yjcn.nl  Wed Nov 22 07:59:40 2017
From: harmen at yjcn.nl (Harmen Mesker)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:59:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extra welcome text not used
Message-ID: <532fa27b-4dae-ff58-085b-f49371fb70fa@yjcn.nl>

Hi all Mailman aficionados,

I have an odd problem with one of my mailing lists. I have added extra 
text in the welcome_msg field to be send to new members but that field 
is not used. Instead new members get to see this:

Welkom op de %(real_name)s@%(host_name) maillijst! %(welcome)s
Berichten naar deze lijst kunt u richten aan het volgende adres:

   %(emailaddr)s

Algemene informatie over de maillijst kunt u vinden op:

   %(listinfo_url)s


etc. (it's in Dutch). I assume this is the standard welcome text but as 
you can see it gives variable names instead of their values. And the 
text from the welcome_msg field is not used. The send_welcome_msg is 
switched on and as far as I can see that is the only other option for 
the welcome message.

Am I missing something? Am I goofing up? Any ideas where to look? Thanks 
for helping me out. My website and Mailman is on a cPanel hosting server.

Kind regards,

Harmen.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 22 12:19:05 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:19:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extra welcome text not used
In-Reply-To: <532fa27b-4dae-ff58-085b-f49371fb70fa@yjcn.nl>
References: <532fa27b-4dae-ff58-085b-f49371fb70fa@yjcn.nl>
Message-ID: <fbe7ba6c-fd18-0c17-cc86-7ba9b4a7103f@msapiro.net>

On 11/22/2017 04:59 AM, Harmen Mesker wrote:
> Hi all Mailman aficionados,
> 
> I have an odd problem with one of my mailing lists. I have added extra
> text in the welcome_msg field to be send to new members but that field
> is not used. Instead new members get to see this:
> 
> Welkom op de %(real_name)s@%(host_name) maillijst! %(welcome)s
> Berichten naar deze lijst kunt u richten aan het volgende adres:


The issue is '%(host_name) ' is missing an 's'. It should be
'%(host_name)s '. This causes interpolation of the variables (including
'%(welcome)s' which includes the welcome message) to fail.

The file templates/nl/subscribeack.txt should be correct. I suspect
someone has made a change by following the 'Edit the public HTML pages
and text files' ('Bewerk de publiek toegankelijke HTML-pagina's en de
tekstbestanden' in Dutch) link in the admin UI and editing the 'Welcome
email text file' ('Tekstbestand van het welkomstbericht voor nieuwe
leden') and lost that 's'.

If you go there and ensure that every replacement looks like '%(...)s',
that should fix it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From harmen at yjcn.nl  Thu Nov 23 06:11:55 2017
From: harmen at yjcn.nl (Harmen Mesker)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 12:11:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extra welcome text not used
In-Reply-To: <fbe7ba6c-fd18-0c17-cc86-7ba9b4a7103f@msapiro.net>
References: <532fa27b-4dae-ff58-085b-f49371fb70fa@yjcn.nl>
 <fbe7ba6c-fd18-0c17-cc86-7ba9b4a7103f@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5726cfd9-4411-bd70-a2ee-411a0d5d74fc@yjcn.nl>

Hi Mark,

You're da man.? I added the s and it works perfectly! So simple. So 
effective.

Let me buy you a coffee next time you're in the neighbourhood.

Best,

Harmen.

*Harmen Mesker - www.i-tjing.info <http://www.i-tjing.info> | 
www.yjcn.nl <http://www.yjcn.nl>
*

/Yixue /??| /Yijing Research/

/Habent sua fata libelli/ - 'books have their own destiny'

Op 22-11-2017 om 18:19 schreef Mark Sapiro:
> On 11/22/2017 04:59 AM, Harmen Mesker wrote:
>> Hi all Mailman aficionados,
>>
>> I have an odd problem with one of my mailing lists. I have added extra
>> text in the welcome_msg field to be send to new members but that field
>> is not used. Instead new members get to see this:
>>
>> Welkom op de %(real_name)s@%(host_name) maillijst! %(welcome)s
>> Berichten naar deze lijst kunt u richten aan het volgende adres:
>
> The issue is '%(host_name) ' is missing an 's'. It should be
> '%(host_name)s '. This causes interpolation of the variables (including
> '%(welcome)s' which includes the welcome message) to fail.
>
> The file templates/nl/subscribeack.txt should be correct. I suspect
> someone has made a change by following the 'Edit the public HTML pages
> and text files' ('Bewerk de publiek toegankelijke HTML-pagina's en de
> tekstbestanden' in Dutch) link in the admin UI and editing the 'Welcome
> email text file' ('Tekstbestand van het welkomstbericht voor nieuwe
> leden') and lost that 's'.
>
> If you go there and ensure that every replacement looks like '%(...)s',
> that should fix it.
>


From barry at list.org  Thu Nov 23 11:38:00 2017
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 11:38:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Time Stand Still
Message-ID: <40668691-DBED-4703-B49C-56E309586F52@list.org>

Somewhen in the dark recesses of intarweb history, I found myself as the project leader for both Jython (n?e JPython) and GNU Mailman.  I'd been involved with Jython since it was invented by Jim Hugunin around the time he came to work with us at Pythonlabs.  I'd been contributing to Mailman since we inherited John Viega's Python-based Dave Matthews Band list server, and put it to use replacing python.org's Majordomo installation.

I'd enjoyed both projects, but knew I could not lead both, so I had to make a choice.  I chose to turn over Jython to a team that's done a much better job over the years than I ever could have.  Something about email, and especially the communication and collaboration patterns that it facilitates, really fascinated me.  I know, I know, but we all have our lapses of sanity.  Mine has lasted almost 20 years, a bit more than "momentary" perhaps.

I've rarely gotten paid to work on Mailman, but it did provide me some great opportunities.  Most notably it led to my 10 year stint at Canonical.  I was originally hired on there to integrate mailing lists with Launchpad, and Mailman was the obvious choice.  I learned a ton doing that project, and working within the constraints of integrating the two Python-based systems, especially since Launchpad was originally not free software and Mailman was GPL'd.  Later, the Zope-based Launchpad source code was released under the AGPL, making much of the monkeypatching unnecessary, but by then the system was solid and reliable, and you don't fix what's not broken.

Except, I guess I did.  I took a lot of the lessons from that work, along with a good hard look at all the problems with Mailman 2, and began to break another cardinal rule of software development: second system syndrome.  The result is Mailman 3.  It took forever, and we're still not at complete feature parity with Mailman 2, but at least it's Real Enough to be used at many Real Sites, including python.org and lists.fedoraprojects.org.

It would be ridiculous for me to take significant credit for this.  I have to acknowledge the amazing user community -- you! -- for all the support, patches, suggestions, feedback, patience, criticism, donations, and contributions that you've given to the project, and to me personally over the years.  And my deepest gratitude goes to all the core developers that have stayed or come and gone, but most especially the current Cabal: Abhilash Raj, Aurelien Bompard, Florian Fuchs, Mark Sapiro, Stephen J. Turnbull, Terri Oda. You should know that each and every one of them is truly awesome, both in what they contribute technically, and in their amazing friendships.  Mailman is infinitely better because of their involvement, and I've loved spending time with them over the years at the Pycon sprints, making releases and sharing teas and meals.

My blog is called We Fear Change, and that's humorously taken from a 90's bit in Mike Myer's excellent Wayne's World movie (a phrase actually uttered by the brilliant Dana Carvey as Garth).  The irony of course is that while we all may fear change, it's the one constant thing we can count on.  And in fact, we *require* change to thrive, because if you aren't changing, you aren't alive. Time, and being engaged with life's vagaries, means there's no alternative to change; it must be embraced.

And so, with a vague reference to the many (good!) changes in my personal and professional life, I'm announcing that I'm stepping down from the project leadership role of GNU Mailman, effective... nowish!  And it's with unanimous agreement among the GNU Mailman Steering Committee (a.k.a. the Mailman Cabal), that we are announcing Abhilash Raj as the new project leader.

If you don't recognize Abhilash's name, you probably aren't paying attention, at least to Mailman 3.  Abhilash came to us in 2013 as a Google Summer of Code student, and he's become one of the project's most valuable contributors.  His list of accomplishments is long, and it includes everything from redesigning the website, to integrating CI with our GitLab build system, porting our code to the SQLAlchemy ORM, adding MySQL support, revving up adoption through his Docker images, along with his great coding work on Core, Postorius, HyperKitty, and mailmanclient.

This transition is good for the project too.  Email, its defining protocols and standards, and its role in our daily lives, has changed profoundly since the early days of Mailman.  A fresh perspective and enthusiasm will help keep Mailman relevant to the changing ways we -- especially the FLOSS and tech communities -- communicate.

Please join me in supporting Abhilash in every way possible as he takes over in this new role as project leader.  I'll be here when and if needed, even as I create space in my "spare" time for... Something Else.  I look forward to the vision that Abhilash will bring to the project, and I know that he will do a great job.  To me, Mailman has always been about collaboration, and the best
way for it to succeed is for you to continue to contribute your insights, experiences, opinions, and skills with positive intention.

-Barry

https://www.wefearchange.org/

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From jcea at jcea.es  Fri Nov 24 15:28:29 2017
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 21:28:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blog: Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a mail
 server
Message-ID: <27c5c7a6-0642-6ab7-fa6c-b0390983cd34@jcea.es>

I hope somebody finds this article useful.

Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a mail server
https://blog.jcea.es/posts/20161126-mailman.html

Unfortunately I am not covering Mailman 3 because I haven't jumped yet,
waiting for a migration path from Mailman 2 beside the obvious burn &
start over :).

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx  Fri Nov 24 16:39:19 2017
From: jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx (Jesus Rivas)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 15:39:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stadistics
Message-ID: <4B0E8C62-FB9D-4080-90EB-E7CF24A5AF1F@evangelizacion.org.mx>

Hi, there are any way to get statistics from mailman 2.1.14, some graphical, i use pflogsumm, there are any software for statistics like used for mailchimp and other?

Thanks.

Saludos
Cualquier duda estoy a tus ordenes.
Dios te bendiga.
Jes?s Rivas
Ayudante de Sistemas



 
 

T. (01 81) 8123-1293
01 800 836 9407
website |  vCard |  facebook |  twitter


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 24 17:05:24 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 14:05:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stadistics
In-Reply-To: <4B0E8C62-FB9D-4080-90EB-E7CF24A5AF1F@evangelizacion.org.mx>
References: <4B0E8C62-FB9D-4080-90EB-E7CF24A5AF1F@evangelizacion.org.mx>
Message-ID: <8863ede2-77e6-0bca-f55a-d40689e9190a@msapiro.net>

On 11/24/2017 01:39 PM, Jesus Rivas wrote:
> Hi, there are any way to get statistics from mailman 2.1.14, some graphical, i use pflogsumm, there are any software for statistics like used for mailchimp and other?


Mailman writes fairly extensive log information, but tools to analyze
and report that info are lacking. In the contrib/ directory in the
distribution there is an 'mmdsr' (Mailman Daily Status Report) script
and a README.mmdsr file, but this is intended more for daily health
monitoring, not statistics reporting.

People may have made their own log file analysis tools, but none other
than mmdsr have been contributed back to the project.

There is also a contrib/post-count script that examines a list's
archives and produces a report by month of number of posts and total
message size.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 24 23:52:53 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:52:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blog: Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a
 mail server
In-Reply-To: <27c5c7a6-0642-6ab7-fa6c-b0390983cd34@jcea.es>
References: <27c5c7a6-0642-6ab7-fa6c-b0390983cd34@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <3f7c7372-d2ca-7375-c409-ce1383648691@msapiro.net>

On 11/24/2017 12:28 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
> I hope somebody finds this article useful.
> 
> Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a mail server
> https://blog.jcea.es/posts/20161126-mailman.html


Thanks for sharing that.

Would it be OK if I create an article linking to it at
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030490>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From jcea at jcea.es  Sat Nov 25 06:13:44 2017
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:13:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blog: Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a
 mail server
In-Reply-To: <3f7c7372-d2ca-7375-c409-ce1383648691@msapiro.net>
References: <27c5c7a6-0642-6ab7-fa6c-b0390983cd34@jcea.es>
 <3f7c7372-d2ca-7375-c409-ce1383648691@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <8063FF1D-76BE-446B-8F65-FECADEA2215E@jcea.es>



> El 25 nov 2017, a las 5:52, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> escribi?:
> 
>> On 11/24/2017 12:28 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> I hope somebody finds this article useful.
>> 
>> Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a mail server
>> https://blog.jcea.es/posts/20161126-mailman.html
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing that.
> 
> Would it be OK if I create an article linking to it at
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030490>?

Of course. Go ahead. Please let me know when done :)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 25 12:36:05 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 09:36:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blog: Using Mailman 2 in a machine without a
 mail server
In-Reply-To: <8063FF1D-76BE-446B-8F65-FECADEA2215E@jcea.es>
References: <27c5c7a6-0642-6ab7-fa6c-b0390983cd34@jcea.es>
 <3f7c7372-d2ca-7375-c409-ce1383648691@msapiro.net>
 <8063FF1D-76BE-446B-8F65-FECADEA2215E@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <a1dcd4ab-6472-2367-9343-ea7abcf910bd@msapiro.net>

On 11/25/2017 03:13 AM, Jesus Cea wrote:
> 
> 
>> El 25 nov 2017, a las 5:52, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> escribi?:
>>
>> Would it be OK if I create an article linking to it at
>> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030490>?
> 
> Of course. Go ahead. Please let me know when done :)


I have created the page at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892026>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From slc at publicus.net  Tue Nov 28 14:25:01 2017
From: slc at publicus.net (Steven Clift)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:25:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Yahoo.com bouncing your lists?
Message-ID: <CALAwQWroSW8puGCOvS5pdHyKSThPqcTZBQ0OgZmNkscvG-PrNQ@mail.gmail.com>

While we use GroupServer.org, I've found that when you had DMARC, etc.
issues with AOL, we did too.

Yahoo is bouncing hundreds of our members. How about you?

Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov 29 02:08:24 2017
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 23:08:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Yahoo.com bouncing your lists?
In-Reply-To: <CALAwQWroSW8puGCOvS5pdHyKSThPqcTZBQ0OgZmNkscvG-PrNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALAwQWroSW8puGCOvS5pdHyKSThPqcTZBQ0OgZmNkscvG-PrNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5491b5fc-7309-ad4d-01dc-f224ce3689b7@msapiro.net>

On 11/28/2017 11:25 AM, Steven Clift wrote:
> 
> Yahoo is bouncing hundreds of our members. How about you?


The neither the mail.python.org lists nor my own lists are seeing
unusual Yahoo bounces.

Is your issue that Yahoo is bouncing mail From: a variety of sender
domains or that posts From: Yahoo domains are being bounced by various ISPs?

If it is the latter, then that is likely a DMARC issue. If the former,
it is likely not DMARC, but possibly Yahoo doesn't like the sending
server for some reason. In either case, the actual bounce notifications
should help to determine the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tran at isoc.org  Thu Nov 30 11:29:42 2017
From: tran at isoc.org (Dang Tran)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:29:42 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppress new incoming messages,
 but able to view private archives
Message-ID: <CC59AB08-3B5B-44A3-8D27-EDD89DC18E06@contoso.com>

Good day ?

Please could someone help me if there?s an option:

Can I set up a subscriber so that s/he has access to the archives (private), but does not receive messages?  Another word ? suppress new incoming message, only be able to view archives.

Thank you.

-------
Best Regards,
Dang