From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 1 02:44:30 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:44:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce notification to owner from non members?
In-Reply-To: <6a9406e7-a6bd-c1b4-517f-5857fc66b53d@Damon-Family.org>
References: <99b35c01-4a5a-efd7-897a-19236b1962a3@damorris.com>
<6a9406e7-a6bd-c1b4-517f-5857fc66b53d@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <23393.22222.671513.443765@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Reply-To set to Mailman-Developers. Please clean up your header if
you use Reply-All.
Richard Damon writes:
> It would be nice if Mailman could tell the MTA as it was receiving the
> message that it wasn't acceptable so it could be rejected then, but
> since it generally can't, you need to discard spam, not reject it.
Since Mailman3 uses LTMP, I *think* it would be possible for Mailman
to reject it in such a way as to pass the rejection up the chain.
RFE submitted (https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/498) and
assigned to yours truly. Discussion to Mailman-Developers or me
personally, or on the issue, as you see fit.
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 1 02:49:36 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:49:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ARC
In-Reply-To: <389ac70c-1c68-ceb0-6467-8f04ffef527b@jordan.maileater.net>
References: <20180722200514.EA5FA20028DC81@ary.qy>
<155ddbec-a343-d698-ae29-05856470e8d8@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
<23381.24927.74482.530338@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
<03d440cf-7cd5-4564-2900-ffc08cd7849b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
<23384.18596.617417.251765@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
<490793b6-cc8f-fed7-6005-5ae296af3622@jordan.maileater.net>
<23386.40274.604718.454833@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
<389ac70c-1c68-ceb0-6467-8f04ffef527b@jordan.maileater.net>
Message-ID: <23393.22528.12444.907242@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Jordan Brown writes:
> Wasn't this in the context of signature-checking schemes that detect
> forged origin metadata?
Context, yes. The question is did Intuit need extreme accuracy for
that? Maybe they did, but I see no evidence for that need.
Intuit was not a financial intermediary. It sent bills, it did not
collect payments AFAIK (if it did, that would be a different matter).
The reason it got into billing is that it has the invoice data anyway,
since it was doing accounting and tax preparation for these businesses
(Intuit is the company that sells TurboTax). So you receive a bill
from Intuit, your response is not to click on a link in the bill, it's
to go to your banking site and authorize a transfer to the vendor.
You could argue that the bad guys could find some way to abuse the
system because the From address isn't aligned with Intuit's DKIM
signature (I thought of two while typing this sentence), but as far as
I know they haven't implemented yet. They did implement spear-
spamming "from" Yahoo! and AOL customers. Doesn't prove there's no
profitable way to exploit Intuit, but it's suggestive.
> So the vendor has to notify their customers who they use to do
> their billing, and every time that they change billing vendors?
Probably not. My guess is that Intuit did, in a footer. Again, this
works well enough as long as Intuit isn't collecting money for the
vendor, and the vendor's customers are expecting to use a different
channel already set up to make payment. I don't think these folks
would change billing vendors very often, since that probably implies
changing accountants and tax preparer, too.
> Ofttimes, the goal is that the billing vendor is completely
> invisible to the end customer.
Sure. But it can't be completely invisible here. Remember, these are
businesses that don't have their own domains or are so technically
clueless that they're billing from yahoo.com, not their own domain.
I doubt very many customers (of the vendors using Intuit) paid any
attention to who was sending the bills, vs who was asking for money.
> Having your billing vendor be visible is, like having your company
> e-mail address be @gmail.com
Exactly (but it was @yahoo.com. :-) There are many people out there
who don't think very hard about these things. The only thing they
fear enough to buy help for is the IRS. Therefore, Intuit.
> Not anywhere near as hard as it is for a full-scale e-mail vendor.
> Google secures a database of millions of users' secrets, and must
> have internal and external controls that keep the wrong people from
> sending mail that pretends to come from those users.
It's unfair to refer to Google and ignore Yahoo! and AOL here. My
point is that if I were Intuit's CISO, I would want to be securing
customers' accounting and tax records, not their mail service. One
doesn't want to have to expend Google-like resources for a service one
doesn't need to provide.
From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Wed Aug 1 12:43:42 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 12:43:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
Message-ID: <5B61E33E.1167.40AC066@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
I'm still working on the auto-submission stuff. I set up another test mailing
list, this one on Bluehost. First, I compared the HTML of the
members/unsubscribe page and they are *identical* [except for having
different URLs for the links to the various pages].
And I tried my program on the Bluehost version and I was greeted with
Not Acceptable!
Not
Acceptable!
An appropriate representation of the requested
resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by
Mod_Security.<
OK, next step is to do a complete packet-capture of the transactions with
Dreamhost and wireshark it to see what is strange versus what my
program is doing...
....and mailman's forms seemed so simple...:o)
/b\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From andrew at hodgson.io Wed Aug 1 13:30:18 2018
From: andrew at hodgson.io (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:30:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
In-Reply-To: <5B61E33E.1167.40AC066@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B61E33E.1167.40AC066@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID:
Hi,
Can you provide steps of how you set up Mailman on the different providers since it looks like you are using some type of packaged or managed service which is providing features that are not part of the stock Mailman and may get in the way of what you are trying to do. It is difficult to provide support on here especially if there are other modules being used to provide extra site protection etc.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users On Behalf Of Bernie Cosell
Sent: 01 August 2018 17:44
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
I'm still working on the auto-submission stuff. I set up another test mailing list, this one on Bluehost. First, I compared the HTML of the members/unsubscribe page and they are *identical* [except for having different URLs for the links to the various pages].
And I tried my program on the Bluehost version and I was greeted with
Not Acceptable!
Not
Acceptable!
An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod_Security.<
OK, next step is to do a complete packet-capture of the transactions with Dreamhost and wireshark it to see what is strange versus what my program is doing...
....and mailman's forms seemed so simple...:o)
/b\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgson.io
From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 1 18:55:17 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:55:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
In-Reply-To: <5B61E33E.1167.40AC066@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B61E33E.1167.40AC066@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <4b2fa0d9-0522-e219-bea9-c24e8ea60ef1@msapiro.net>
On 08/01/2018 09:43 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
>
> And I tried my program on the Bluehost version and I was greeted with
>
> Not Acceptable!
Not
> Acceptable!
An appropriate representation of the requested
> resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by
> Mod_Security.<
This definitely looks like something in the web server at Bluehost
rejecting your POST before it ever gets to Mailman. Mod_Security is a
web server firewall.
Does Bluehost require HTTPS and if so, are you POSTing via HTTPS?
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Wed Aug 1 20:56:31 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:56:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
In-Reply-To:
References: <5B61E33E.1167.40AC066@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>,
Message-ID: <5B6256BF.14235.124323C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
On 1 Aug 2018 at 17:30, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Can you provide steps of how you set up Mailman on the different
> providers since it looks like you are using some type of packaged or
> managed service which is providing features that are not part of the
> stock Mailman and may get in the way of what you are trying to do. It
> is difficult to provide support on here especially if there are other
> modules being used to provide extra site protection etc.
I have no way to determine that -- I'm just a user with no admin privs, so I
can't actually look at the mailman installation -- all I can do is try to use it
/b\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From tlhackque at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 12:58:40 2018
From: tlhackque at yahoo.com (tlhackque)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:58:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <7729b508-029c-1455-bbe9-57911690d3aa@yahoo.com>
On 08/01/2018 09:43 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> And I tried my program on the Bluehost version and I was greeted with
>
> Not Acceptable!
Not
> Acceptable!
An appropriate representation of the requested
> resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by
> Mod_Security.<
mod_security is an Apache webserver module that has a complex ruleset
used to examine every request and response. It attempts to detect and
prevent malicious activity. Doc on https://www.modsecurity.org.
It is not uncommon for form submissions to run afoul of mod_security
rules. Typically, there are cases where data is encoded in ways that
appear to be hiding something - e.g. %-encoding urls or POST data
where it's not necessary, excessively long URLs or large POSTs - and
so on. There's a pretty large list. Most are regex s applied at
various stages of request processing; some are based on things like
request size. Some are rules that assume a pretty dumb web service;
where you know that Mailman can cope with constructs/sizes/encodings,
you're expected to disable those rules on the URLs that it serves.
There will be logs on the server that specify exactly what rule was
tripped, it's id, and the suspect input.
Then there are three courses of action possible:
o The rule can be disabled by ID in the webserver config, for the specific
mailman POST URL (or globally, but that's not smart). It's also possible
to completely disable mod_security for a URL or vhost - but that's also
not advisable.
o Mailman can be changed to not require input that trips the rule.
o Your client can be changed not to generate input that trips the rule.
You will need help from someone with admin privs to at least share the logs,
if not make adjustments to the mod_security configuration. Like any
protective filter, it takes some thought and analysis to make the right
changes. That is the change that allows what you want, but doesn't open
an unintended attack surface.
In my experience, these issues are never caused by just one rule - if an
application trips one, waiving or fixing it will only get you to the next
one. It can take a while to get to a workable ruleset. It is generally
worth the trouble, as mod_security is effective at protecting against
quite a few exploits. It does take a while to learn how it works and how
to teach it how to stay out of your way.
There are two things likely to be changed on the server end:
The webserver config file that will include directives to disable
specific rules on particular URLs. And possibly a set of customized
rule overrides for Mailman. (These can go in separate files that
are dropped in the rules directory.)
Once that's done, sharing the result with the MM community would save
others a lot of repeat effort.
Good hunting.
From engrav at mac.com Fri Aug 3 01:19:23 2018
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 22:19:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with q.com address
Message-ID: <3104D3D7-0D86-47DF-8277-92933EBE64EE@mac.com>
Hi
Have list with ~50 members. One fails to receive messages with email ending in @q.com. And I see notice that Mailman is having trouble (bounces) from that address.
Where do I start to sort this out?
Thank you
From mark at msapiro.net Fri Aug 3 12:55:54 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:55:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with q.com address
In-Reply-To: <3104D3D7-0D86-47DF-8277-92933EBE64EE@mac.com>
References: <3104D3D7-0D86-47DF-8277-92933EBE64EE@mac.com>
Message-ID:
On 08/02/2018 10:19 PM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> Have list with ~50 members. One fails to receive messages with email ending in @q.com. And I see notice that Mailman is having trouble (bounces) from that address.
>
> Where do I start to sort this out?
If you have access to the MTA logs, you can see the reason for the
bounce there. If not, if you set Bounce processing ->
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable to Yes (if it isn't already), when the
user's delivery is disabled by bounce, a notice will be sent to the list
owner and it will include a copy of the bounce DSN that caused the disable.
Also, if your Mailman is 2.1.19 or newer, there is a
bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment setting that will send the
notice each time a user's bounce score is incremented.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From jon.clements at umass.edu Sat Aug 4 09:25:23 2018
From: jon.clements at umass.edu (Jon Clements)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 09:25:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID:
Sorry, but can anyone tell me how to stop this from happening? I receive
one of these in Spam every minute.
Mailman version 2.1.13 on Mac OSX.
Thanks.
Jon
*****
This is the mail system at host virtualorchard.com.
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.
The mail system
: host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[64.233.176.26] said:
550-5.7.1 This message does not have authentication information or
fails to
pass 550-5.7.1 authentication checks. To best protect our users from
spam,
the 550-5.7.1 message has been blocked. Please visit 550-5.7.1
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more 550
5.7.1 information. 62-v6si1797769ybw.621 - gsmtp (in reply to end of
DATA
command)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "??" <1975834224 at qq.com>
To:
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2018 19:55:59 +0800
Subject: 11?? ????????? ????1960009745 ???188?? ??336428 ?COM
????~???188?? ????67277????????>0016 ? ?? 336428C0M
????????????????588????15??????????????
--
Jon Clements
aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
University of Massachusetts Amherst Extension
UMass Cold Spring Orchard
393 Sabin St.
Belchertown, MA 01007
413-478-7219 Verizon
413-378-3068 Project Fi
umassfruit.com
From heller at deepsoft.com Sat Aug 4 10:18:55 2018
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 10:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <20180804141855.7510026C1F29@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Do you have access to your inbound mail server? If so, you need to arrange for
that server to *reject* all mail connections from qq.com. qq.com is a
*notorious* source of spam (there are no legitimate E-Mail addresses @qq.com).
You might also want to firewall Chinese IP addresses as well.
With postfix, you need to add a line to /etc/postfix/access like this:
qq.com REJECT
and run postmap on /etc/postfix/access
Other MTAs have similar files.
At Sat, 4 Aug 2018 09:25:23 -0400 jon.clements at umass.edu wrote:
>
> Sorry, but can anyone tell me how to stop this from happening? I receive
> one of these in Spam every minute.
>
> Mailman version 2.1.13 on Mac OSX.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jon
>
> *****
> This is the mail system at host virtualorchard.com.
>
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
>
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
> delete your own text from the attached returned message.
>
> The mail system
>
> : host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[64.233.176.26] said:
> 550-5.7.1 This message does not have authentication information or
> fails to
> pass 550-5.7.1 authentication checks. To best protect our users from
> spam,
> the 550-5.7.1 message has been blocked. Please visit 550-5.7.1
> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more 550
> 5.7.1 information. 62-v6si1797769ybw.621 - gsmtp (in reply to end of
> DATA
> command)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "??????" <1975834224 at qq.com>
> To:
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2018 19:55:59 +0800
> Subject: 11?????? ??????????????????????????? ????????????1960009745 ?????????188?????? ??????336428 ???COM
>
>
> ????????????~?????????188?????? ????????????67277??????????????????????????>0016 ??? ?????? 336428C0M
>
> ????????????????????????????????????????????????588????????????15??????????????????
> ?????????????????????????
>
--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
From greenbutterfly42 at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 09:49:32 2018
From: greenbutterfly42 at gmail.com (Jason Wandel)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 23:19:32 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic web subscription format
Message-ID:
Hi all,
I'm using mm 2.1.26 on a lamp install from a hosting company... But have
downloaded the code to look through locally.
I'm trying to automatically subscribe/unsubscribe members to an already
restricted access list. This is because I have a separate webform that's
used to select people already in our non-mm database.
I've found some info including on the list history (one from back in 2001
though the link provided on that no longer exists). I think I'm most of the
way there, I'm now getting a "bad/invalid email address" error from the
following (obscured) url, reporting on the Firstname Lastname:
http://domain/mailman/admin/list_domain/members/add?subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&
notification_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=Firstname%20Lastname%20&adminpw=the
password
I've tried without quotes and with single or double quotes around the name
and the name/address combo, all without success. It looks like I'm getting
a failure due to email.Utils.parseaddr as called from admin.py (I think
line 1465), which supposedly accepts double quotes around the name portion.
Could I please ask for guidance on the format needed to make this work?
TIA!
From johnl at taugh.com Sat Aug 4 12:17:32 2018
From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine)
Date: 4 Aug 2018 12:17:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: <20180804141855.7510026C1F29@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20180804161732.BBEAE20034526C@ary.qy>
In article <20180804141855.7510026C1F29 at sharky3.deepsoft.com> you write:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>Do you have access to your inbound mail server? If so, you need to arrange for
>that server to *reject* all mail connections from qq.com. qq.com is a
>*notorious* source of spam (there are no legitimate E-Mail addresses @qq.com).
>You might also want to firewall Chinese IP addresses as well.
Actually, there are millions of legitimate e-mail addrsses at qq.com.
It's Tencent, the giant Chinese company that owns Wechat, which has
900 million active users, all with an e-mail address linked to their
Wechat accounts.
Nearly all of the users are in China, so if you don't expect anyone
from China to subscribe to your lists, I suppose you can block them.
From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 4 12:39:11 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 09:39:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On 08/04/2018 06:25 AM, Jon Clements wrote:
> Sorry, but can anyone tell me how to stop this from happening? I receive
> one of these in Spam every minute.
What is happening is spam is being sent from (in this case)
<1975834224 at qq.com> to . That is
being forwarded from Mailman to the list owner
and Google is rejecting the message and you are
seeing the reject notice.
Others have suggested configuring the MTA to not accept mail from
qq.com. Another approach is to improve the spam filtering in general on
the server so this mail doesn't get to Mailman.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Sat Aug 4 12:57:37 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 09:57:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic web subscription format
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <444c060c-7478-8f9c-d234-d236571ceb42@msapiro.net>
On 08/04/2018 06:49 AM, Jason Wandel wrote:
>
> I've found some info including on the list history (one from back in 2001
> though the link provided on that no longer exists). I think I'm most of the
> way there, I'm now getting a "bad/invalid email address" error from the
> following (obscured) url, reporting on the Firstname Lastname:
>
> http://domain/mailman/admin/list_domain/members/add?subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&
> notification_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=Firstname%20Lastname%20&adminpw=the
> password
>
> I've tried without quotes and with single or double quotes around the name
> and the name/address combo, all without success.
The fact that you show the list name as list_domain indicates this is
cPanel, so the code you are looking at is not the actual code you are
dealing with.
However, in standard Mailman, and I don't *think* cPanel is different in
this respect, what you show above should work if Firstname and Lastname
don't contain special characters such as '.'. If they do, you need to
quote it as
%22Firstname%20Lastname%22%20
and the %22 quotes won't hurt even if they aren't needed
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From engrav at mac.com Sat Aug 4 19:08:37 2018
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2018 16:08:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with q.com address
Message-ID: <667BDC30-2423-45DC-A5A4-8DB1474F4B71@mac.com>
Hi
to finish this off case anyone else needs to know...
I did as you said thank you and then received the message below
: host mx.centurylink.net[206.152.134.65] said: 550 SPF Hard
Fail: Domain engrav.mobi does not designate 192.185.193.12 as permitted
sender. (in reply to MAIL FROM command)
Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway36.websitewelcome.com
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: E9D1A400C8AB9
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; wg-bounces at xxx
Arrival-Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 23:25:42 -0500 (CDT)
Final-Recipient: rfc822; xxx at q.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822;xxx at q.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx.centurylink.net
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 SPF Hard Fail: Domain engrav.mobi does not designate
192.185.193.12 as permitted sender.
now since I do not understand I ?chatted? with Site5 (my host) who said
quote
11:39:51 AM Ankitha Y I have reviewed your account and found the SPF record was not updated to the correct one.
11:40:04 AM Ankitha Y I have now updated to v=spf1 +a +mx +ip4:129.121.3.204 +include:websitewelcome.com ~all
and that solved the problem; q.com and other centurylink.net mail passing thru Ok
thanks
From greenbutterfly42 at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 04:54:57 2018
From: greenbutterfly42 at gmail.com (Jason Wandel)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 18:24:57 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic web subscription format
In-Reply-To: <444c060c-7478-8f9c-d234-d236571ceb42@msapiro.net>
References:
<444c060c-7478-8f9c-d234-d236571ceb42@msapiro.net>
Message-ID:
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the response.
Yes, it's on cPanel... But I would've thought it would still be a standard
mm install in the back end???
Anyway, url encoding the quotes made no difference I'm afraid... But it did
point me in the right direction. Replacing the < and > chars around the
address with the url encodes %3C and %3E made it work.
So fixed. Thanks!
On 5 Aug. 2018 2:28 am, "Mark Sapiro" wrote:
On 08/04/2018 06:49 AM, Jason Wandel wrote:
>
> I've found some info including on the list history (one from back in 2001
> though the link provided on that no longer exists). I think I'm most of
the
> way there, I'm now getting a "bad/invalid email address" error from the
> following (obscured) url, reporting on the Firstname Lastname:
>
>
http://domain/mailman/admin/list_domain/members/add?subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&
>
notification_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=Firstname%20Lastname%20&adminpw=the
> password
>
> I've tried without quotes and with single or double quotes around the name
> and the name/address combo, all without success.
The fact that you show the list name as list_domain indicates this is
cPanel, so the code you are looking at is not the actual code you are
dealing with.
However, in standard Mailman, and I don't *think* cPanel is different in
this respect, what you show above should work if Firstname and Lastname
don't contain special characters such as '.'. If they do, you need to
quote it as
%22Firstname%20Lastname%22%20
and the %22 quotes won't hurt even if they aren't needed
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/greenbutterfly42%40gmail.com
From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Aug 5 07:09:55 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 07:09:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POST problem fixed!
Message-ID: <5B66DB03.12181.12C8DAA7@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
I discovered, after much mucking around, that the problem is that
Mailman requires all of the form fields to be submitted. So unsubscribing
with just
@fields = ( unsubscribees => "$email",
setmemberopts_btn => "Submit Your Changes",
) ;
Doesn't work. What does work is:
@fields = ( send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch => 0,
send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner => 1 ,
unsubscribees => "$email",
setmemberopts_btn => "Submit Your Changes",
Content => { unsubscribers_upload => "" },
) ;
YAY! /Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Aug 5 12:10:19 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 12:10:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POST problem fixed!
Message-ID: <5B67216B.25875.13DBDF9C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
> I discovered, after much mucking around, that the problem
> is that Mailman requires all of the form fields to be
> submitted.
Just a footnote to this: If you have a big list and you're trying to, say,
change the 'nomail' setting via the membership page, you're going to have
a *lot* of POST parameters! Every person subscribed to the list that's listed
on that page will generate something like 10 form variables. That's going
to be a *big* POST! Just to flip one bit..:o)
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 5 19:10:48 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 16:10:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic web subscription format
In-Reply-To:
References:
<444c060c-7478-8f9c-d234-d236571ceb42@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <9a408333-9904-66f6-2384-6512f0f6a5d1@msapiro.net>
On 08/05/2018 01:54 AM, Jason Wandel wrote:
>
> Yes, it's on cPanel... But I would've thought it would still be a standard
> mm install in the back end???
cPanel modifies Mailman, mostly to support their appending of '_domain'
to list names to avoid name collisions between different domains. The
last patch set I have is from 2.1.13 and has 343 lines of patches
affecting 12 modules, so no, it's not a lot different from a 'standard'
MM install, but it is different.
> Replacing the < and > chars around the
> address with the url encodes %3C and %3E made it work.
When I tested, I didn't need to do that, but maybe my browser did it for me.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 5 19:14:59 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 16:14:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POST problem fixed!
In-Reply-To: <5B66DB03.12181.12C8DAA7@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B66DB03.12181.12C8DAA7@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <7903b62b-ac28-7182-127b-edc4c4b21427@msapiro.net>
On 08/05/2018 04:09 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> I discovered, after much mucking around, that the problem is that
> Mailman requires all of the form fields to be submitted. So unsubscribing
> with just
>
> @fields = ( unsubscribees => "$email",
> setmemberopts_btn => "Submit Your Changes",
> ) ;
>
> Doesn't work. What does work is:
>
> @fields = ( send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch => 0,
> send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner => 1 ,
> unsubscribees => "$email",
> setmemberopts_btn => "Submit Your Changes",
> Content => { unsubscribers_upload => "" },
> ) ;
>
It doesn't require all form fields to be submitted, but you have to look
at the code to see which ones are required.
I'm glad you got it working.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 5 19:47:28 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 16:47:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POST problem fixed!
In-Reply-To: <5B67216B.25875.13DBDF9C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B67216B.25875.13DBDF9C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <5223d3d7-5b49-5931-2871-e4760c881153@msapiro.net>
On 08/05/2018 09:10 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
>> I discovered, after much mucking around, that the problem
>> is that Mailman requires all of the form fields to be
>> submitted.
>
> Just a footnote to this: If you have a big list and you're trying to, say,
> change the 'nomail' setting via the membership page, you're going to have
> a *lot* of POST parameters! Every person subscribed to the list that's listed
> on that page will generate something like 10 form variables. That's going
> to be a *big* POST! Just to flip one bit..:o)
This is not correct. First of all, you could look at the resultant page
for a search for the one member's email address and see a form with only
one user on it.
In general, you do not need to submit every field of the form. You do
have to either look at the code or experiment to see which fields are
required, but in the membership list in particular, you don't need to
submit values for any but the one member you are looking at.
On the other hand, the only reason to create scripts to post to the web
UI to make changes is if you only have access to the web UI. If you have
command access to the Mailman server, it is generally much preferred to
create Python scripts to access Mailman directly. See
for lots of examples.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Mon Aug 6 04:22:09 2018
From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 04:22:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
Message-ID:
Hi,
Last night at 11:15 or so, I received a password reminder from
Mailman-users, with my correct password. Only problem is, I never
requested such a reminder. Did anyone else get one, was someone testing
something with a random sample of subscribers, or was I targeted (not
realizing that they'd have to hack my Email account to get the password)?
Thanks,
Jayson
From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de Mon Aug 6 05:52:16 2018
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (mailman-admin)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 11:52:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
Hello
Am 06.08.2018 um 10:22 schrieb Jayson Smith:
>
> Last night at 11:15 or so, I received a password reminder from
> Mailman-users, with my correct password. Only problem is, I never
> requested such a reminder. Did anyone else get one, was someone testing
> something with a random sample of subscribers, or was I targeted (not
> realizing that they'd have to hack my Email account to get the password)?
>
Password reminders are enabled on List level.
Each admin of a list can set that.
You can disable monthly reminders in the listinfo page after login with
your list credentials.
Kind regards,
Christian Mack
From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Mon Aug 6 06:14:05 2018
From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 06:14:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To: <1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
Hi again,
This was not a monthly password reminder. It specifically said that
"You?or someone posing as you?has requested" this password reminder.
Jayson
On 8/6/2018 5:52 AM, mailman-admin wrote:
> Hello
>
> Am 06.08.2018 um 10:22 schrieb Jayson Smith:
>> Last night at 11:15 or so, I received a password reminder from
>> Mailman-users, with my correct password. Only problem is, I never
>> requested such a reminder. Did anyone else get one, was someone testing
>> something with a random sample of subscribers, or was I targeted (not
>> realizing that they'd have to hack my Email account to get the password)?
>>
> Password reminders are enabled on List level.
> Each admin of a list can set that.
> You can disable monthly reminders in the listinfo page after login with
> your list credentials.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Christian Mack
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaybird%40bluegrasspals.com
>
>
From mark at msapiro.net Mon Aug 6 08:33:51 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 05:33:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To: <3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
<3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
Message-ID: <706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
On August 6, 2018 3:14:05 AM PDT, Jayson Smith wrote:
>Hi again,
>
>This was not a monthly password reminder. It specifically said that
>"You?or someone posing as you?has requested" this password reminder.
Anyone can request a password reminder for any address from either the options or private archive login pages.
--
Mark Sapiro
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
From mikeflan at att.net Sun Aug 5 21:18:53 2018
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 20:18:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banned Addresses
Message-ID: <0ddda77f-d20b-ff59-49b1-785da5fd83a3@att.net>
We have lists with a lot of banned addresses.? Is it
necessary to click on a white X in a red box for each
address removed, or is there a trick with the reg expression
box to remove banned addresses?? In most cases we want
to remove ALL of the banned addresses.
Mike
From mark at msapiro.net Mon Aug 6 08:51:38 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 05:51:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banned Addresses
In-Reply-To: <0ddda77f-d20b-ff59-49b1-785da5fd83a3@att.net>
References: <0ddda77f-d20b-ff59-49b1-785da5fd83a3@att.net>
Message-ID:
On August 5, 2018 6:18:53 PM PDT, Mike Flannigan wrote:
>
>We have lists with a lot of banned addresses.? Is it
>necessary to click on a white X in a red box for each
>address removed, or is there a trick with the reg expression
>box to remove banned addresses?? In most cases we want
>to remove ALL of the banned addresses.
If this is Mailman 3/Postorius the appropriate list is mailman-users at malman3.org .
--
Mark Sapiro
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com Mon Aug 6 09:05:35 2018
From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian A. Santiago)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:05:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banned Addresses
In-Reply-To:
References: <0ddda77f-d20b-ff59-49b1-785da5fd83a3@att.net>
Message-ID: <516c69663728784103b82255b8d881ac@garbage-juice.com>
On 2018-08-06 08:51 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If this is Mailman 3/Postorius the appropriate list is
> mailman-users at malman3.org
> .
typo in your email address listed here:
mailman-users at malman3.org SHOULD be mailman-users at mailman3.org
--
Fabian S.
OpenPGP:
0x643082042DC83E6D94B86C405E3DAA18A1C22D8F (new key)
***
0x3C3FA072ACCB7AC5DB0F723455502B0EEB9070FC (to be retired, still valid)
From engrav at mac.com Mon Aug 6 11:45:56 2018
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 08:45:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrub set to No but message says scrubbed
Message-ID:
Hi (newbie to this)
Mailman 2.1.26 MacOS 10.13.6
I have scrub of regular delivery in non-digest set to No but
when I peruse a message with attachments in Archives it says they were scrubbed
and in the message the attachments appear, not a link
what am I missing?
thank you
From mikeflan at att.net Mon Aug 6 13:32:16 2018
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:32:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banned Addresses
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <4cb5e4eb-ea19-1722-4332-1fa38297f39b@att.net>
It is Postorius.? Thank you.
I am in the process of subscribing.
Mike
On 8/6/2018 11:00 AM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
If this is Mailman 3/Postorius the appropriate list is
mailman-users at mailman3.org
.
From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Aug 6 14:08:51 2018
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 14:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To: <706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
<3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
<706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On Mon, 2018-08-06 at 05:33 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On August 6, 2018 3:14:05 AM PDT, Jayson Smith .com> wrote:
> > Hi again,
> >
> > This was not a monthly password reminder. It specifically said
> > that?
> > "You?or someone posing as you?has requested" this password
> > reminder.
>
>
> Anyone can request a password reminder for any address from either
> the options or private archive login pages.
>
What's your thoughts on adding reCAPTCHA to the 2nd half of the
listinfo page in order to mitigate some of that?
- -Jim P.
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From mrbrklyn at panix.com Mon Aug 6 16:20:21 2018
From: mrbrklyn at panix.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 16:20:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To: <1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
<3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
<706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
<1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
Message-ID:
On 08/06/2018 02:08 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
> What's your thoughts on adding reCAPTCHA to the 2nd half of the
> listinfo page in order to mitigate some of that?
I don't want google to know about my users and I don't want people to
unblock google in order to get passwords
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Mon Aug 6 21:27:04 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 21:27:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Submitting the members page
Message-ID: <5B68F568.24159.1AFFF65D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Just for reference: I just checked and when I make a change in just one list
member, includes a bit of stuff:
csrf_token and findmember and setmemberopts_btn and allmodbit_val
For every member on the page: _realname, user, _language,
Plus, every checkbox that is "on" is also sent.
I know that manyof you think I'm nuts and all this hassle I'm going
through to program-submit mailman's forms is silly. But: I manage 8 lists
now [it'll soon be nine or ten] and it is really very nice that I can open a
windows command prompt and just type
mailman LIST1 -s jim jim at hisdomain.com
and in one stroke "jim" is "subscribed" [-u unsubscribes, etc] [not to
mention how much I've learned about the wonders of the web developer
addin for Firefox...:o)]
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From mark at msapiro.net Mon Aug 6 22:00:52 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:00:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To: <1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
<3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
<706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
<1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
Message-ID: <5939742b-d3b8-14ce-a9d0-dde77d72959e@msapiro.net>
On 08/06/2018 11:08 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-08-06 at 05:33 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Anyone can request a password reminder for any address from either
>> the options or private archive login pages.
>
>
>
> What's your thoughts on adding reCAPTCHA to the 2nd half of the
> listinfo page in order to mitigate some of that?
At this point I have no interest. I think most "other address" password
requests are either inadvertence, curiosity, or malice on the part of
humans.
If and when I see evidence of massive robotic reminder requests, I may
rethink this, but I note that the implementation of reCAPTCHA on the web
subscribe form on all Mailman 2.1 @python.org lists didn't seem to make
much of a dent in the bogus web subscribes we were seeing despite the
fact that the form must first be retrieved by GET and then the POST
can't come too soon thereafter.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
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From raj at mischievous.us Mon Aug 6 22:22:33 2018
From: raj at mischievous.us (Richard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:22:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?
Message-ID:
I'm trying to find some documentation on how to force my retry ("RetryRunner") queue to try delivery again. I'll keep searching but thought I'd toss a quick note here as well. Anyone?
Thanks for any help you can provide!
/raj
From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Aug 6 23:17:37 2018
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 23:17:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To:
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
<3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
<706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
<1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
Message-ID: <1533611857.2078.2.camel@domainmail.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On Mon, 2018-08-06 at 16:20 -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 08/06/2018 02:08 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> >
> > What's your thoughts on adding reCAPTCHA to the 2nd half of the
> > listinfo page in order to mitigate some of that?
>
>
> I don't want google to know about my users and I don't want people to
> unblock google in order to get passwords
I don't disagree with that, and I understand where you're coming from.
I wish Redhat/Ubuntu/Debian would take the lead on an alternative.
- -Jim P.
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From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Aug 6 23:17:41 2018
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 23:17:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected password reminder from this list
In-Reply-To: <5939742b-d3b8-14ce-a9d0-dde77d72959e@msapiro.net>
References:
<1fe9f218-d0f2-22ec-edf1-c79f564e825f@uni-konstanz.de>
<3c5be51c-a39e-dc9f-e7a6-3be9304740ab@bluegrasspals.com>
<706787B8-AED1-4B77-801E-DB828B7372FF@msapiro.net>
<1533578931.3511.1.camel@domainmail.org>
<5939742b-d3b8-14ce-a9d0-dde77d72959e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1533611861.2078.3.camel@domainmail.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On Mon, 2018-08-06 at 19:00 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 08/06/2018 11:08 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> >
> > What's your thoughts on adding reCAPTCHA to the 2nd half of the
> > listinfo page in order to mitigate some of that?
>
> At this point I have no interest. I think most "other address"
> password requests are either inadvertence, curiosity, or malice on
> the part of humans.
>
> If and when I see evidence of massive robotic reminder requests, I
> may rethink this, but I note that the implementation of reCAPTCHA on
> the web subscribe form on all Mailman 2.1 @python.org lists didn't
> seem to make much of a dent in the bogus web subscribes we were
> seeing despite the fact that the form must first be retrieved by GET
> and then the POST can't come too soon thereafter.
>
Ack. FWIW, I think that's a healthy attitude about this.
Thanks,
- -Jim P.
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From mark at msapiro.net Mon Aug 6 23:24:05 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:24:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrub set to No but message says scrubbed
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On 08/06/2018 08:45 AM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Hi (newbie to this)
>
> Mailman 2.1.26 MacOS 10.13.6
>
> I have scrub of regular delivery in non-digest set to No but
scrub_nondigest = Yes says scrub attachments from all messages including
individual messages and messages in MIME digests. If it is set to No,
non-plaintext attachments that pass content filtering will be included
in individual messages and messages in MIME digests.
> when I peruse a message with attachments in Archives it says they were scrubbed
non-plaintext attachments are always scrubbed from plain text digests
and the pipermail archive because both of these support plain text only.
> and in the message the attachments appear, not a link
>
> what am I missing?
I hope I've explained this so you can understand why non-plaintext
attachments are always scrubbed from plain text digests and the
pipermail archive, and what scrub_nondigest does in addition.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Mon Aug 6 23:52:26 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:52:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Submitting the members page
In-Reply-To: <5B68F568.24159.1AFFF65D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B68F568.24159.1AFFF65D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID:
On 08/06/2018 06:27 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> Just for reference: I just checked and when I make a change in just one list
> member, includes a bit of stuff:
>
> csrf_token and findmember and setmemberopts_btn and allmodbit_val
> For every member on the page: _realname, user, _language,
> Plus, every checkbox that is "on" is also sent.
Just because a browser sends all those things doesn't mean that Mailman
requires all of them.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 7 00:16:50 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On 08/06/2018 07:22 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> I'm trying to find some documentation on how to force my retry ("RetryRunner") queue to try delivery again. I'll keep searching but thought I'd toss a quick note here as well. Anyone?
Prior to Mailman 2.1.26, it processes the queue, sleeps for 15 minutes
and repeats. There has always been a DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT setting that
defaulted to 1 hour, but prior to 2.1.26, it was ineffective. The
current doc for that setting in Defaults.py is
> # How long should we wait before we retry a temporary delivery failure?
> # Because RetryRunner sleeps for 15 minutes between processes of its queue,
> # whatever is put here is effectively rounded up to the next integer multiple
> # of 15 minutes.
> DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT = hours(1)
The way this works is when a delivery fails for a temp failure, the
current time + DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT is placed in the message's metadata
and the message won't be retried before that time.
If your Mailman is pre 2.1.26, or if DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT has been set to
a very low value, you can restart RetryRunner by sending it SIGINT. That
should wake it up to process its queue.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From raj at mischievous.us Tue Aug 7 00:58:37 2018
From: raj at mischievous.us (Richard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 21:58:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <9CF057DB-4F4E-4EA1-A15E-692BBA0EF141@mischievous.us>
Thanks, I'll keep this information around for future reference! In the meantime, the queue was automatically retried and the changes I made to postfix configuration were correct, so the mail was delivered just fine!
(Mailman seems to deliver outgoing list messages to the local SMTP server via "::1". I was expecting 127.0.0.1. I wasn't expecting ipv6! ["Nobody expects ipv6!"]) :)
/raj
> On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:16 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> On 08/06/2018 07:22 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>> I'm trying to find some documentation on how to force my retry ("RetryRunner") queue to try delivery again. I'll keep searching but thought I'd toss a quick note here as well. Anyone?
>
>
> Prior to Mailman 2.1.26, it processes the queue, sleeps for 15 minutes
> and repeats. There has always been a DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT setting that
> defaulted to 1 hour, but prior to 2.1.26, it was ineffective. The
> current doc for that setting in Defaults.py is
>
>> # How long should we wait before we retry a temporary delivery failure?
>> # Because RetryRunner sleeps for 15 minutes between processes of its queue,
>> # whatever is put here is effectively rounded up to the next integer multiple
>> # of 15 minutes.
>> DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT = hours(1)
>
> The way this works is when a delivery fails for a temp failure, the
> current time + DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT is placed in the message's metadata
> and the message won't be retried before that time.
>
> If your Mailman is pre 2.1.26, or if DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT has been set to
> a very low value, you can restart RetryRunner by sending it SIGINT. That
> should wake it up to process its queue.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/raj%40mischievous.us
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 7 01:12:43 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 22:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?
In-Reply-To: <9CF057DB-4F4E-4EA1-A15E-692BBA0EF141@mischievous.us>
References:
<9CF057DB-4F4E-4EA1-A15E-692BBA0EF141@mischievous.us>
Message-ID:
On 08/06/2018 09:58 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>
> (Mailman seems to deliver outgoing list messages to the local SMTP server via "::1". I was expecting 127.0.0.1. I wasn't expecting ipv6! ["Nobody expects ipv6!"]) :)
Mailman delivers by default to localhost. That's ::1 because that's what
localhost resolves to in your /etc/hosts. If that's not what you want,
change /etc/hosts.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From raj at mischievous.us Tue Aug 7 01:44:40 2018
From: raj at mischievous.us (Richard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 22:44:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?
In-Reply-To:
References:
<9CF057DB-4F4E-4EA1-A15E-692BBA0EF141@mischievous.us>
Message-ID: <932123B0-6DF5-4990-ADFA-A0E9135F9CFB@mischievous.us>
Interesting. Ok. Thanks!
/raj
> On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:12 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> On 08/06/2018 09:58 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>>
>> (Mailman seems to deliver outgoing list messages to the local SMTP server via "::1". I was expecting 127.0.0.1. I wasn't expecting ipv6! ["Nobody expects ipv6!"]) :)
>
>
> Mailman delivers by default to localhost. That's ::1 because that's what
> localhost resolves to in your /etc/hosts. If that's not what you want,
> change /etc/hosts.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/raj%40mischievous.us
From pshute at nuw.org.au Tue Aug 7 18:33:43 2018
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 08:33:43 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
Message-ID:
Recently we've had a lot of members from one particular domain (
bigpond.com/bigpond.com.au) marked bouncing, and it looks like it's only
digest members who are affected. I haven't checked yet if all digest
members from that domain are affected. We unticked their nomail box, but a
few days later they're marked bouncing again.
I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest
emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this?
Peter Shute
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 7 18:45:35 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 15:45:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On 08/07/2018 03:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
>
> I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest
> emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this?
Look in the server's mail logs for a reason or if you don't have access
or for some reason the bounces are more indirect and not logged there,
ensure that Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable and if
available, bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment are set to yes and
the list owner will receive a copy of the disabling (and incrementing) DSNs.
This will tell you the receiving server's reason for not accepting the
mail and you can follow up on that.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From Richard at Damon-Family.org Tue Aug 7 21:48:44 2018
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 21:48:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
On 8/7/18 6:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> Recently we've had a lot of members from one particular domain (
> bigpond.com/bigpond.com.au) marked bouncing, and it looks like it's only
> digest members who are affected. I haven't checked yet if all digest
> members from that domain are affected. We unticked their nomail box, but a
> few days later they're marked bouncing again.
>
> I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest
> emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this?
>
> Peter Shute
I have seen bounce issues with a number of the larger email providers
with digests on the list I run. I suspect that the format of the digest
just looks strange to the scoring algorithms, and the embedded message
Ids will look like there are a lot of email addresses in the message,
which would be also unusual.
--
Richard Damon
From pshute at nuw.org.au Wed Aug 8 01:26:18 2018
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 15:26:18 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
I should have mentioned we've done that, and the reason for all of them is
" 558 5.7.1 5B04183724647A17 Message content rejected due to suspected
spam. IB703 "
On 8 August 2018 at 08:45, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 08/07/2018 03:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> >
> > I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest
> > emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this?
>
>
> Look in the server's mail logs for a reason or if you don't have access
> or for some reason the bounces are more indirect and not logged there,
> ensure that Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable and if
> available, bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment are set to yes and
> the list owner will receive a copy of the disabling (and incrementing)
> DSNs.
>
> This will tell you the receiving server's reason for not accepting the
> mail and you can follow up on that.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ma
> ilman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute
> %40nuw.org.au
>
From pshute at nuw.org.au Wed Aug 8 01:29:15 2018
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 15:29:15 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To: <316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
References:
<316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID:
Have you been able to do anything about it? If we can't get their server to
believe it's not spam, we're going to have to take all these people off
digest, and some won't like it.
I don't know if getting these people to whitelist us would let these emails
through, even if it was possible to steer all of them through the process.
On 8 August 2018 at 11:48, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 8/7/18 6:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> > Recently we've had a lot of members from one particular domain (
> > bigpond.com/bigpond.com.au) marked bouncing, and it looks like it's only
> > digest members who are affected. I haven't checked yet if all digest
> > members from that domain are affected. We unticked their nomail box, but
> a
> > few days later they're marked bouncing again.
> >
> > I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest
> > emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this?
> >
> > Peter Shute
> I have seen bounce issues with a number of the larger email providers
> with digests on the list I run. I suspect that the format of the digest
> just looks strange to the scoring algorithms, and the embedded message
> Ids will look like there are a lot of email addresses in the message,
> which would be also unusual.
>
> --
> Richard Damon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> pshute%40nuw.org.au
>
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 8 04:11:28 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 17:11:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: <20180804161732.BBEAE20034526C@ary.qy>
References: <20180804141855.7510026C1F29@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
<20180804161732.BBEAE20034526C@ary.qy>
Message-ID: <23402.42416.185191.875514@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
John Levine writes:
> In article <20180804141855.7510026C1F29 at sharky3.deepsoft.com> you write:
> >-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> >Do you have access to your inbound mail server? If so, you need to
> >arrange for that server to *reject* all mail connections from
> >qq.com. qq.com is a *notorious* source of spam (there are no
> >legitimate E-Mail addresses @qq.com). You might also want to
> >firewall Chinese IP addresses as well.
>
> Actually, there are millions of legitimate e-mail addrsses at qq.com.
> It's Tencent, the giant Chinese company that owns Wechat, which has
> 900 million active users, all with an e-mail address linked to their
> Wechat accounts.
>
> Nearly all of the users are in China, so if you don't expect anyone
> from China to subscribe to your lists, I suppose you can block them.
Thanks John! Saved me the trouble.
Also, if Postfix REJECT is what Mailman thinks of as "reject" (return
to sender), it's preferable to (silently) DISCARD on the off chance
that the address was spoofed or hijacked.
Steve
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 8 04:12:19 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 17:12:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with q.com address
In-Reply-To: <667BDC30-2423-45DC-A5A4-8DB1474F4B71@mac.com>
References: <667BDC30-2423-45DC-A5A4-8DB1474F4B71@mac.com>
Message-ID: <23402.42467.812711.131927@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users writes:
> to finish this off case anyone else needs to know...
Thank you for the update!
Steve
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 8 04:14:07 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 17:14:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To:
References:
<316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <23402.42575.405311.7778@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Peter Shute writes:
> Have you been able to do anything about it? If we can't get their
> server to believe it's not spam, we're going to have to take all
> these people off digest, and some won't like it.
There are two digest formats, MIME and RFC 934 (older and somewhat
less robust, but still pretty usable). If all of the affected users
are on one, you could try switching to the other, possibly with some
loss of functionality depending on the MUAs in use and the content of
the messages.
The only other reasonable thing I can suggest is to contact
bigpond.com and ask them if you can get on a whitelist or if they're
willing to tell you about digest formats that pass their spam checker.
Usually the less competent the spam-checker, the less they're willing
to tell you about what features of your mail stream are triggering the
checker, but you might get lucky.
Steve
From pshute at nuw.org.au Wed Aug 8 05:22:23 2018
From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:22:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To: <23402.42575.405311.7778@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References:
<316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
<23402.42575.405311.7778@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID:
We mostly have the Plain option ticked. Is that RFC 934? And unticked is Mime?
I can?t see an obvious pattern, but I several unticked that aren?t
marked bouncing. There are also some ticked that aren?t marked
bouncing, but I can tell if these have fixed the problem themselves
(if that?s possible), or have perhaps whitelisted us.
I?ll have a more thorough look, and if there?s a pattern, we can try
unticking them all.
I?ll try contacting bigpond, but as a non customer, I suspect I?ll be
ignored at best. In my own organisation, a young colleague wanted to
leave our new spam filter on the default setting to quarantine all
mailing list emails, which it called ?suspicious newsletters?. He
thought our users would appreciate that. I suspect many tech support
people think the same way.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 8 Aug 2018, at 6:14 pm, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> Peter Shute writes:
>
>> Have you been able to do anything about it? If we can't get their
>> server to believe it's not spam, we're going to have to take all
>> these people off digest, and some won't like it.
>
> There are two digest formats, MIME and RFC 934 (older and somewhat
> less robust, but still pretty usable). If all of the affected users
> are on one, you could try switching to the other, possibly with some
> loss of functionality depending on the MUAs in use and the content of
> the messages.
>
> The only other reasonable thing I can suggest is to contact
> bigpond.com and ask them if you can get on a whitelist or if they're
> willing to tell you about digest formats that pass their spam checker.
> Usually the less competent the spam-checker, the less they're willing
> to tell you about what features of your mail stream are triggering the
> checker, but you might get lucky.
>
> Steve
From Richard at Damon-Family.org Wed Aug 8 06:37:11 2018
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 06:37:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To:
References:
<316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <03ac644b-cc3a-b467-2de1-b5dd60eb66c0@Damon-Family.org>
Some services provide a feedback link that you can send a copy of a
message to, and those that do generally will white list you get around
the problem.
Others don't have such a feedback link, and for those I tell the
subscribers to try to whitelist the list by adding the related addresses
to their address book (the list address, -request and -bounces
adderesses), which sometimes works, and if that doesn't for THEM to
complain to the provider about the email problem (if they don't list a
feedback address, then my complaints never seem to matter).? I also
suggest they can change off digest, but few want to do that.
I will never just convert a subscriber from digest to regular, as that
will just upset them.
On 8/8/18 1:29 AM, Peter Shute wrote:
> Have you been able to do anything about it? If we can't get their
> server to believe it's not spam, we're going to have to take all these
> people off digest, and some won't like it.
>
> I don't know if getting these people to whitelist us would let these
> emails through, even if it was possible to steer all of them through
> the process.
>
> On 8 August 2018 at 11:48, Richard Damon > wrote:
>
> On 8/7/18 6:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
> > Recently we've had a lot of members from one particular domain (
> > bigpond.com/bigpond.com.au )
> marked bouncing, and it looks like it's only
> > digest members who are affected. I haven't checked yet if all digest
> > members from that domain are affected. We unticked their nomail
> box, but a
> > few days later they're marked bouncing again.
> >
> > I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our
> digest
> > emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this?
> >
> > Peter Shute
> I have seen bounce issues with a number of the larger email providers
> with digests on the list I run. I suspect that the format of the
> digest
> just looks strange to the scoring algorithms, and the embedded message
> Ids will look like there are a lot of email addresses in the message,
> which would be also unusual.
>
> --
> Richard Damon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au
>
>
>
--
Richard Damon
From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Thu Aug 9 12:09:42 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 12:09:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] @signs in FORMs
Message-ID: <5B6C6746.2420.2874BF3D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
I'm a bit confused [as always]. On the Member List page, all of the @signs
that appear [e.g., in all the email addresses] are HTML encoded: The
member "jojo at newhost.com" ends up in the FORM for the list as
I see in web developer, that the fields are apparently submitted just that
way:
-----------------------------265001916915724
Content-Disposition: form-data; name="jojo%40newhost.com_realname"
jojojo
-----------------------------265001916915724
Content-Disposition: form-data; name="user"
jojo%40newhost.com
-----------------------------265001916915724
But I can't get my dumb program to update the member list [e.g., to turn on
a 'mod' checkbox]. I'm busy debugging but I'm wondering: when my
program submits the form fields, should it use the %40 form, or convert the
fields back to @signs? [At the moment I can't get it to work either way but
I'd like to know which is correct]. Thanks!!
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From mark at msapiro.net Thu Aug 9 12:58:48 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 09:58:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] @signs in FORMs
In-Reply-To: <5B6C6746.2420.2874BF3D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B6C6746.2420.2874BF3D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <5c0567ee-c716-ba97-b574-f345c1171452@msapiro.net>
On 08/09/2018 09:09 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> I'm a bit confused [as always]. On the Member List page, all of the @signs
> that appear [e.g., in all the email addresses] are HTML encoded: The
> member "jojo at newhost.com" ends up in the FORM for the list as
> type="TEXT" value="jojojo" size="22" >
>
It's not really relevant to your question, but encoding @ as %40 is
called URL encoding, not HTML encoding. Sometimes, characters,
especially non-ascii but also some ascii) are encoded in HTML as HTML
entities which for @ would be @ or @.
> But I can't get my dumb program to update the member list [e.g., to turn on
> a 'mod' checkbox]. I'm busy debugging but I'm wondering: when my
> program submits the form fields, should it use the %40 form, or convert the
> fields back to @signs? [At the moment I can't get it to work either way but
> I'd like to know which is correct]. Thanks!!
It shouldn't matter for ascii characters such as @. See, e.g.
.
Except, it is possible that your program url encodes the data it's given
in which case it might turn %40 into %2540, and that won't work.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Mon Aug 13 01:54:12 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:54:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
In-Reply-To:
References:
<316c31b2-f64b-9501-cd9b-e0fbd4e41898@Damon-Family.org>
<23402.42575.405311.7778@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <23409.7428.190323.602487@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Peter Shute writes:
> We mostly have the Plain option ticked. Is that RFC 934? And
> unticked is Mime?
Yes and yes.
> I?ll try contacting bigpond, but as a non customer, I suspect I?ll be
> ignored at best.
True, but you're in a lot better position vis-a-vis petulant bigpond
customers if you can say "I care, and have done what I can. I'm sorry
that it's not enough. Your provider evidently doesn't care; they
won't even answer my mail asking what else I can do."
> I suspect many tech support people think the same way.
It's not hard to understand why. If spam gets through, they're the
last line of defense, they *should* catch it. After all, the user
recognized it as spam from a single summary line! If wanted mail
doesn't get through, first of all, the user may not even notice. If
they do, you can claim it never got to your system. If they get the
bounce or a SMTP log from the other side proving it was a spam reject,
you can blame the author or mailing list for doing the same things
that spammers do (even if they're entirely reasonable and explicitly
provided for by the relevant RFCs -- nobody reads RFCs).
Many admins end up convincing themselves that they're doing a good job
by worrying more about keeping spam out than by ensuring that legit
mail gets through, and only then preventing spam. Even using that
approach, they probably get more complaints about spam than they do
about lost mail. :-(
--
Associate Professor Division of Policy and Planning Science
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information
Email: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba
Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
From glen.page at thet.net Mon Aug 13 12:39:46 2018
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:39:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Link in list message footer?
Message-ID:
Is it possible to include an HTML link or links in the footer of list messages? We use mailman to send messages to parents of our students. We have our own mobile app and would love to be able to include a link to the app in both the Apple App store and the Google Play store if that is possible.
Thanks in advance.
Glen Page
Director of Information Technology
ThetNet - Thetford Academy
802.785.4805.x231
Never ask a man what computer he uses. If it's a Mac, he'll tell you. If it's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
From mark at msapiro.net Mon Aug 13 21:08:06 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:08:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Link in list message footer?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <17ed7956-9727-1c85-3d16-eca4485ff45b@msapiro.net>
On 08/13/2018 09:39 AM, Glen Page wrote:
> Is it possible to include an HTML link or links in the footer of list messages? We use mailman to send messages to parents of our students. We have our own mobile app and would love to be able to include a link to the app in both the Apple App store and the Google Play store if that is possible.
The footer is always added in a text/plain part, either appended to a
text/plain message body or a separate part.
Thus any HTML markup in the footer will be displayed as the raw HTML and
not rendered. However, if you just put the URL in the footer, preferably
enclosed in angle brackets, as in , many
MUAs will render it as a clickable link. In any case, that's the best
you can do.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From dpalao.python at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 12:37:47 2018
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (David Palao)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:37:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] send invitations programmatically
Message-ID:
Hi,
I'm administrating a mailman 2.1 list and I'd like to write a (python)
program that sends an invitation to a given email address.
Is there a way to do it?
TIA
From dpalao.python at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 07:09:06 2018
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (David Palao)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 13:09:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] send invitations programmatically
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
Sorry for the question: I was looking at the problem the wrong way.
As the docs say, simply sending an email to LISTNAME-join at DOMAIN is what I need.
BR
El lun., 13 ago. 2018 a las 18:37, David Palao
() escribi?:
>
> Hi,
> I'm administrating a mailman 2.1 list and I'd like to write a (python)
> program that sends an invitation to a given email address.
> Is there a way to do it?
>
> TIA
From cwieland at uci.edu Tue Aug 14 15:21:55 2018
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:21:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members does not complete
Message-ID: <88FE98F6-1CDA-4BF2-AA74-73611F08039A@uci.edu>
mailman 2.1.15
When I do remove_members it does not complete. A ^C to kill it and I get this error
[root at maillists bin]# ./remove_members --fromall -n thehdguy at cathyscorner.us
^CTraceback (most recent call last):
File "./remove_members", line 186, in
main()
File "./remove_members", line 161, in main
mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)
File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
self.Lock()
File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
self.__lock.lock(timeout)
File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 312, in lock
self.__sleep()
File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 496, in __sleep
time.sleep(interval)
KeyboardInterrupt
I have reloaded and stpped and atrted mailman. No change Any ideas
Con Wieland
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 14 15:53:20 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:53:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members does not complete
In-Reply-To: <88FE98F6-1CDA-4BF2-AA74-73611F08039A@uci.edu>
References: <88FE98F6-1CDA-4BF2-AA74-73611F08039A@uci.edu>
Message-ID:
On 08/14/2018 12:21 PM, Con Wieland wrote:
> mailman 2.1.15
>
> When I do remove_members it does not complete. A ^C to kill it and I get this error
>
>
> [root at maillists bin]# ./remove_members --fromall -n thehdguy at cathyscorner.us
> ^CTraceback (most recent call last):
> File "./remove_members", line 186, in
> main()
> File "./remove_members", line 161, in main
> mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)
> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
> self.Lock()
> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
> self.__lock.lock(timeout)
> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 312, in lock
> self.__sleep()
> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 496, in __sleep
> time.sleep(interval)
> KeyboardInterrupt
The list is locked.
See for information on stale locks.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From glen.page at thet.net Wed Aug 15 09:25:09 2018
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 09:25:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Link in list message footer
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <613F48DB-6333-4830-8219-608F1423DD09@thet.net>
That will work perfectly. Thanks!
> On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:00 PM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
>
> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> mailman-users at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> mailman-users-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> mailman-users-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Link in list message footer? (Glen Page)
> 2. Re: Link in list message footer? (Mark Sapiro)
>
> From: Glen Page
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Link in list message footer?
> Date: August 13, 2018 at 12:39:46 PM EDT
> To: mailman-users at python.org
>
>
> Is it possible to include an HTML link or links in the footer of list messages? We use mailman to send messages to parents of our students. We have our own mobile app and would love to be able to include a link to the app in both the Apple App store and the Google Play store if that is possible.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Glen Page
> Director of Information Technology
> ThetNet - Thetford Academy
> 802.785.4805.x231
>
>
> Never ask a man what computer he uses. If it's a Mac, he'll tell you. If it's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mark Sapiro
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Link in list message footer?
> Date: August 13, 2018 at 9:08:06 PM EDT
> To: mailman-users at python.org
>
>
> On 08/13/2018 09:39 AM, Glen Page wrote:
>> Is it possible to include an HTML link or links in the footer of list messages? We use mailman to send messages to parents of our students. We have our own mobile app and would love to be able to include a link to the app in both the Apple App store and the Google Play store if that is possible.
>
>
> The footer is always added in a text/plain part, either appended to a
> text/plain message body or a separate part.
>
> Thus any HTML markup in the footer will be displayed as the raw HTML and
> not rendered. However, if you just put the URL in the footer, preferably
> enclosed in angle brackets, as in , many
> MUAs will render it as a clickable link. In any case, that's the best
> you can do.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Glen Page
Director of Information Technology
ThetNet - Thetford Academy
802.785.4805.x231
"If you are not failing occasionally, you are not rolling big enough dice." - Alton Brown to 2011 NECI graduating classes.
From jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx Wed Aug 15 09:51:55 2018
From: jesus at evangelizacion.org.mx (Jesus Rivas)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:51:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] collect email
Message-ID: <80F72ABF-5CFB-4C90-A615-7D68B3F54BC2@evangelizacion.org.mx>
Hi, i want to collet the email who click on the link, there is a any way to get this something like:
Email to list
Text text text text text
My button link
someone maked this link like this?
Thanks
Saludos
Cualquier duda estoy a tus ordenes.
Dios te bendiga.
Jes?s Rivas
Ayudante de Sistemas
T. (01 81) 8123-1293
01 800 836 9407
website | vCard | facebook | twitter
From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 15 10:58:33 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 07:58:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] collect email
In-Reply-To: <80F72ABF-5CFB-4C90-A615-7D68B3F54BC2@evangelizacion.org.mx>
References: <80F72ABF-5CFB-4C90-A615-7D68B3F54BC2@evangelizacion.org.mx>
Message-ID:
On 08/15/2018 06:51 AM, Jesus Rivas wrote:
> Hi, i want to collet the email who click on the link, there is a any way to get this something like:
>
> Email to list
> Text text text text text
> My button link
If the list is personalized, you can put in msg_footer
You can't put HTML in the footer - see
.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Wed Aug 15 12:34:14 2018
From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:34:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender address as footer field?
Message-ID:
Hi,
I run a mailing list where posters are supposed to put their Email
address somewhere in their message to make private replies easier, but
some don't, even after being reminded privately. A year or two ago I
investigated putting the sender's Email address in the footer, but when
I checked, that wasn't one of the substitutions that were available. If
personalization is enabled I can give the Email address receiving the
message, but not the sender. Are there any plans to include this as a
substitution, or is there a simple patch which could be applied to source?
Thanks,
Jayson
From mark at msapiro.net Wed Aug 15 15:34:28 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:34:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender address as footer field?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <27129045-AFA7-4993-BFE7-8E45C52B3F05@msapiro.net>
On August 15, 2018 9:34:14 AM PDT, Jayson Smith wrote:
> If personalization is enabled I can give the Email address receiving the
>message, but not the sender. Are there any plans to include this as a
>substitution, or is there a simple patch which could be applied to
>source?
There are no plans.
A patch should be easy. See Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py.
--
Mark Sapiro
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
From lists at damorris.com Mon Aug 20 23:15:27 2018
From: lists at damorris.com (Adam Morris)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 13:15:27 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
Message-ID: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
Hi all,
Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't seeing
messages they post to my lists.
Someone sent me the below link.
If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
TIA.
--
Adam Morris
Jaws certified 2016
Email, iMessage & FaceTime
adam at damorris.com
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Tue Aug 21 01:06:04 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:06:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <23419.40380.748423.903123@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Adam Morris writes:
> Someone sent me the below link.
> If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>
> https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
If I understand what you want correctly, this is possible and
controlled by the subscriber's "ack" option.
You almost certainly don't want to implement it listwide.
Acknowledgment messages are just an annoyance if you are also getting
the message. And perhaps even if you aren't.
Individual subscribers can go to their options page, and set the "ack"
option. I am not sure if this subscriber option is *enabled by* or
*overrides* the Autoresponder Settings -> autorespond_postings option
for the list administrator, or if it's independent. Somebody else may
fill in the blank, or you can experiment with your own account (you
don't need to have the original message display suppressed to see if
the acknowledgment is sent and if it has the content you want it to
show the subscribers).
If you're pretty sure that most of the subscribers at that ISP want
the setting, you as admin can do it from the Membership Management ->
Membership List page. Again I recommend doing it only for users who
are likely to be experiencing the issue, and perhaps only those who
raised it.
Steve
From lists at damorris.com Tue Aug 21 02:14:34 2018
From: lists at damorris.com (Adam Morris)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 16:14:34 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <9fa36eac-2d99-80da-7433-73a1ac76bda9@damorris.com>
What I'm saying is that if a member posts a message they don't see it at
all even though all other members do.
On 08/21/2018 13:15, Adam Morris wrote:
> Hi all,
> Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't
> seeing messages they post to my lists.
> Someone sent me the below link.
> If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>
> https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
>
> TIA.
>
>
--
Adam Morris
Jaws certified 2016
Email, iMessage & FaceTime
adam at damorris.com
From Richard at Damon-Family.org Tue Aug 21 06:35:16 2018
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 06:35:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <43dd88d2-4136-6e23-a82a-59ef9aa3ce05@Damon-Family.org>
On 8/20/18 11:15 PM, Adam Morris wrote:
> Hi all,
> Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't
> seeing messages they post to my lists.
> Someone sent me the below link.
> If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>
> https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
>
> TIA.
>
>
There is a list option, "Receive your own post to list" which if turned
off, the list will not send you back copies of your own message.
If your subscribers use gmail (either directly or as a google service)
then they are running into a gmail 'feature' of duplicate message
suppression, where gmail will only show/keep one copy of a message, and
for your own messages to a mailing list, that is the message that was
sent to the list. This is the issue that your link comments on, and as
far as I know, Mailman doesn't support that sort of option, and changing
message IDs as this option describes actually can cause a lot of
'damage' to the mail system.
--
Richard Damon
From heller at deepsoft.com Tue Aug 21 09:54:20 2018
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 09:54:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <23419.40380.748423.903123@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
<23419.40380.748423.903123@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20180821135420.D7D7926C1F29@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
At Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:06:04 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:
>
> Adam Morris writes:
>
> > Someone sent me the below link.
> > If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
> >
> > https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
>
> If I understand what you want correctly, this is possible and
> controlled by the subscriber's "ack" option.
I think the OP might be wondering if *mailman* can implement the
"Misc-Options= NEW_MESSAGE_ID" hack available with LISTSERV 16.0-2017a...
>
> You almost certainly don't want to implement it listwide.
> Acknowledgment messages are just an annoyance if you are also getting
> the message. And perhaps even if you aren't.
>
> Individual subscribers can go to their options page, and set the "ack"
> option. I am not sure if this subscriber option is *enabled by* or
> *overrides* the Autoresponder Settings -> autorespond_postings option
> for the list administrator, or if it's independent. Somebody else may
> fill in the blank, or you can experiment with your own account (you
> don't need to have the original message display suppressed to see if
> the acknowledgment is sent and if it has the content you want it to
> show the subscribers).
>
> If you're pretty sure that most of the subscribers at that ISP want
> the setting, you as admin can do it from the Membership Management ->
> Membership List page. Again I recommend doing it only for users who
> are likely to be experiencing the issue, and perhaps only those who
> raised it.
>
> Steve
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com
>
>
--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Tue Aug 21 19:06:58 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:06:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <9fa36eac-2d99-80da-7433-73a1ac76bda9@damorris.com>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
<9fa36eac-2d99-80da-7433-73a1ac76bda9@damorris.com>
Message-ID: <23420.39698.579692.787601@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Adam Morris writes:
> What I'm saying is that if a member posts a message they don't see
> it at all even though all other members do.
This is a familiar problem with GMail, and with sites that delegate
their email handling to Google. Google refuses to change it or
provide a user option to control it. It's really not our problem.
The logic to deal with this sanely has been well-known since before I
started using email heavily (around 1985), but it can only be
implemented by the receiver, not by the mailing list or the author.
Google got it wrong and has doubled down on their bug.
If there were something we could do to mitigate the problem without
causing other problems, yes, we'd be happy to do that. Unfortunately,
there's nothing riskless that we can do about it. Changing the
Message-ID is non-conformant to Internet standards, and it means that
two messages that are for almost all intents and purposes[1] the same
message will be treated as separate messages. There are several ways
this can happen to real mail, and it's very annoying if it happens a
lot. It would then be our responsibility to address that, because we
broke the rules and thereby broke people's mail streams.
There is one case where the receiver legitimately "sees" a different
Message-ID from the original, and that is when the message is
"wrapped" in a digest or a MIME forward. If this is useful to the
subscriber, they can select digest mode in their options page. If the
purpose is to be sure the message reached the list, then the "ack"
option can perform that function.
In theory we could offer a per-message "wrap-mine" user option (rather
than multiple-message digest) to avoid delays waiting for the daily
digest delivery time. The functionality for wrapping messages is
already implemented, but triggered by a list setting and the DMARC
policy of the sender ISP, rather than a subscriber option. However,
no MUA I know of handles wrapped messages well, and some can't do
anything useful with wrapped messages at all. That would require some
discussion to add to the code base, although we could provide a patch
to be applied by users for testing purposes.
I'm sorry not to be of more help, but I think it's likely that the
best we will offer are the digest option and the "ack" functionality
so that users will know the mailing list received the message.
Steve
Footnotes:
[1] The only functions the list message message performs that the
original in the Sent folder does not are (1) confirmation that the
list received and resent the message, (2) getting the list's
post-varying text (eg, message sequence number), and (3) checking the
trace headers added by the list. (1) is satisfied by the "ack"
option, (2) by the "digest" option, and (3) is extremely specialized.
From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu Tue Aug 21 19:23:14 2018
From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:23:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <23420.39698.579692.787601@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
<9fa36eac-2d99-80da-7433-73a1ac76bda9@damorris.com>
<23420.39698.579692.787601@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <357bd213-7f9f-e9e1-2ca4-fa92b9dafb6f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
On 08/21/2018 06:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I'm sorry not to be of more help, but I think it's likely that the
> best we will offer are the digest option and the "ack" functionality
> so that users will know the mailing list received the message.
Or they could check out list archives and see if their message is there.
--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu
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From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Tue Aug 21 21:06:43 2018
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:06:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] blocking bad digest replies
Message-ID: <5B7CB723.8003.1C8FD08D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
I'm a newcomer to replies [first time in many many years I've had digests on one
of my lists, so it is all very new to me]. What I would like is to set up a content
filter that 'holds' replies by sloppy posters. Specifically, I'd like to catch posts
with a Subject line of "Re; " and one that contains the 'footer' at
the end of the post [both indicative of a sorta clueless poster who didn't do
anything to trim down the digest]. I think/hope the content filtering can do
something like that. Yes??
/B\
Bernie Cosell
bernie at fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Tue Aug 21 22:09:20 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:09:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <357bd213-7f9f-e9e1-2ca4-fa92b9dafb6f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
<9fa36eac-2d99-80da-7433-73a1ac76bda9@damorris.com>
<23420.39698.579692.787601@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
<357bd213-7f9f-e9e1-2ca4-fa92b9dafb6f@bmrb.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <23420.50640.891966.58996@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users writes:
> Or they could check out list archives and see if their message is
> there.
Of course that's an option, if the list is archived (may not be), but
pretty clearly the subscribers in this case at least want a "push"
notification (ack in their inbox), and most likely to get the mail in
the usual way.
Similarly, if they just want to be reminded of the content, they can
go to the Sent folder. Again, the tone of the OP and the link he
provided strongly suggests that's not the issue.
I hate having to say "the requested change is non-RFC-conforming, and
there are good reasons for the rule", but that's the way this one
rolls. Even so, it's important to think carefully about what the
issue is really talking about rather than just looking for a minimum
change path. (Minimizing changes is also a goal, for various reasons.)
Steve
From futatuki at poem.co.jp Tue Aug 21 21:38:49 2018
From: futatuki at poem.co.jp (Yasuhito FUTATSUKI)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:38:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <20180821135420.D7D7926C1F29@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <8f194aec-2927-9765-746a-8d8c55d44204@damorris.com>
<23419.40380.748423.903123@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
<20180821135420.D7D7926C1F29@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <95e84f92-4b19-5399-7e32-65fc96d128c2@poem.co.jp>
On 08/21/18 22:54, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:06:04 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:
>
>>
>> Adam Morris writes:
>>
>> > Someone sent me the below link.
>> > If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>> >
>> > https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
>>
>> If I understand what you want correctly, this is possible and
>> controlled by the subscriber's "ack" option.
>
> I think the OP might be wondering if *mailman* can implement the
> "Misc-Options= NEW_MESSAGE_ID" hack available with LISTSERV 16.0-2017a...
Putting aside that it is useful or harmful, there is a change set to do it,
in tkikuchi's branch. Perhaps it can be applied against 2.1.29.
https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tkikuchi/mailman/2.1-japan/revision/1346
--
Yasuhito FUTATSUKI
From Richard at Damon-Family.org Tue Aug 21 23:04:56 2018
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 23:04:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] blocking bad digest replies
In-Reply-To: <5B7CB723.8003.1C8FD08D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <5B7CB723.8003.1C8FD08D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <38b91f76-8979-e6c9-ba4f-1cdbd70a948b@Damon-Family.org>
On 8/21/18 9:06 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> I'm a newcomer to replies [first time in many many years I've had digests on one
> of my lists, so it is all very new to me]. What I would like is to set up a content
> filter that 'holds' replies by sloppy posters. Specifically, I'd like to catch posts
> with a Subject line of "Re; " and one that contains the 'footer' at
> the end of the post [both indicative of a sorta clueless poster who didn't do
> anything to trim down the digest]. I think/hope the content filtering can do
> something like that. Yes??
> /B\
> Bernie Cosell
> bernie at fantasyfarm.com
> -- Too many people; too few sheep --
>
It is fairly easy to add a filter for the subject line, (The menu
location is a bit strange, Privacy Options / Spam Filters
I use something like
^subject:.*Arlington Digest, Vol
as that is the beginning of the subject line for the digest. the .* is
to allow for the re: (or whatever) to be added.
Catching the footer is harder, as mailman (as far as I know) only
filters on the header to the list, not the body. My list is plain text
only, so I set a size filter to catch messages which quote the whole
digest. It also catches people who attach things anyway, post in html
(sometimes) or don't trim excessive quotations (sometimes). I set the
filters to 'Hold' to allow releasing false positives or to write a
descriptive reject message.
--
Richard Damon
From mikeflan at att.net Wed Aug 22 07:30:03 2018
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 06:30:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
For gmail, this is the fix:
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
Users must do this.
Mike
On 8/21/2018 11:00 AM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't
> seeing messages they post to my lists.
> Someone sent me the below link.
> If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>
> https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
>
> TIA.
From dandrews at visi.com Wed Aug 22 21:19:23 2018
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:19:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
References:
<26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
Message-ID:
At 06:30 AM 8/22/2018, Mike Flannigan wrote:
>For gmail, this is the fix:
>http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
>
>Users must do this.
Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link,
just separators and dashes. I am blind and a screen reader user.
Dave
From mikeflan at att.net Wed Aug 22 21:51:39 2018
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:51:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To:
References:
<26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
Message-ID: <0ccce210-53fb-19f6-4b11-262b6c75d7a9@att.net>
Yes.? They are graphical pictures.
I did not create that webpage.
Just passing it along for others.
Basically is says to put Rootsweb in your
filters to accept messages.
Mike
On 8/22/2018 8:19 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>
> Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link,
> just separators and dashes.? I am blind and a screen reader user.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
From raj at mischievous.us Wed Aug 22 22:01:40 2018
From: raj at mischievous.us (Richard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 19:01:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Something wrong with moving a list
Message-ID: <9A2E0AE9-06DE-413F-AE7D-2F2A5BEFB176@mischievous.us>
I recently moved a list from one server to another. Probably I missed something. Everything seems to be correct except that the footer which should be produced (using "Personalize: yes") doesn't get the values substituted with the real info. It looks like this:
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
Is there something obvious I'm missing?
/raj
From weif at weif.net Wed Aug 22 23:06:25 2018
From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 21:06:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: (message from David
Andrews on Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:19:23 -0500)
Message-ID: <848t4xpyry.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org>
>>For gmail, this is the fix:
>>http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
>>
>>Users must do this.
>
>
> Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link,
> just separators and dashes. I am blind and a screen reader user.
Yeah, it's screen shots of what to click on in the Google GMail
interface, with some instructions painted on the images.
What it does is instructs the user to create a rule to not mark email
that comes from the user as spam.
--
----
from my mac to yours...
Keith Seyffarth
mailto:weif at weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
----
http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention
From geek at uniserve.com Thu Aug 23 19:19:58 2018
From: geek at uniserve.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:19:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] don't see where the mail is disappearing to
Message-ID: <20180823161958.471dc0d8@dave-900X1B>
I've got a set of lists that work as announcement only and which have
been working fine. Between yesterday and today something has changed
that results in no mail being distributed. I'm on the distribution
lists.
When I look at the debian /var/log/mail.log tail I see notifications
about the relevant lists with a suffix (queue active). I take it that
this indicates that mail can be sent in principle, is that right?
Any suggestions about where to look for more info welcome.
D
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Thu Aug 23 20:32:39 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 09:32:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To:
References:
<26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
Message-ID: <23423.21031.31639.317333@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
David Andrews writes:
> Are they screen shots or something???
It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
the weekend.
Many thanks to Mike for the link to
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
This is something we've wanted forever.
Mike: we try to credit contributors in the FAQ. Do you have any
objection to a "Contributed by Mike Flannigan" or similar?
Steve
From mikeflan at att.net Thu Aug 23 21:28:58 2018
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:28:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <23423.21031.31639.317333@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References:
<26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
<23423.21031.31639.317333@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <8ad416ad-2c7d-fcec-f291-54304f725187@att.net>
No objection, but it really isn't necessary.
It's not my content, so I should probably
not be credited.
Mike
On 8/23/2018 7:32 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> David Andrews writes:
>
> > Are they screen shots or something???
>
> It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
> it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
> the weekend.
>
> Many thanks to Mike for the link to
> http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
> This is something we've wanted forever.
>
> Mike: we try to credit contributors in the FAQ. Do you have any
> objection to a "Contributed by Mike Flannigan" or similar?
>
> Steve
>
From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Fri Aug 24 04:19:58 2018
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 10:19:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [ext] don't see where the mail is disappearing
to
In-Reply-To: <20180823161958.471dc0d8@dave-900X1B>
References: <20180823161958.471dc0d8@dave-900X1B>
Message-ID: <20180824081958.GD15949@charite.de>
* Dave Stevens :
> I've got a set of lists that work as announcement only and which have
> been working fine. Between yesterday and today something has changed
> that results in no mail being distributed. I'm on the distribution
> lists.
>
> When I look at the debian /var/log/mail.log tail I see notifications
> about the relevant lists with a suffix (queue active). I take it that
> this indicates that mail can be sent in principle, is that right?
>
> Any suggestions about where to look for more info welcome.
Check mailman's own logs, like "post" and "vette"
--
Ralf Hildebrandt Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de Campus Benjamin Franklin
https://www.charite.de Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Sun Aug 26 12:25:52 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:25:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.
In-Reply-To: <23423.21031.31639.317333@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References:
<26f383ce-8fb4-da0c-db27-614fa76c029e@att.net>
<23423.21031.31639.317333@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <23426.54416.140810.706947@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
> David Andrews writes:
>
> > Are they screen shots or something???
>
> It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
> it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
> the weekend.
As promised, here's the link to the new FAQ.
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20don%27t%20get%20my%20own%20posts
I didn't have the energy to test, sorry. Comments are welcome,
especially those based on trying it out!
Steve
--
Associate Professor Division of Policy and Planning Science
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information
Email: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba
Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
From gkasica at netwrx1.com Wed Aug 15 09:16:03 2018
From: gkasica at netwrx1.com (George R. Kasica)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:16:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change system name after moving mailmain
Message-ID:
I relocated all the mailmain files to a new server (in AWS Cloud) and all is
working well except the URLS its generating such as for admins to remove
messages waiting approval all show the old system name for example:
The skunk-works at netwrx1.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
consideration at:
http://eagle.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/skunk-works
which should read:
http://netwrx1-mail.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/skunk-works
How and where can I modify this? I host file entry won't do it - it times
out.
Thanks
---
George R. Kasica
Phone: +1 414 732 8503
Fax: +1 206 374 6482
Owner
Netwrx Consulting
Jackson, WI USA
gkasica at netwrx1.com
http://www.netwrx1.com
From kai.thater at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 17:29:54 2018
From: kai.thater at gmail.com (Kai Thater)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 23:29:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Templates for HTML-Pages and TXT-Messages
Message-ID:
Hi,
I am looking for a way to edit the templates for Welcome Messages,
Usernotices etc. everything you can edit at
/cgi-bin/mailman/edithtml/
but for all lists that will be created.
All Information I found was for very old Versions (from 2002) or for
Mailman 3.
Kind regards
Kai
From roger.in.eugene at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 17:59:12 2018
From: roger.in.eugene at gmail.com (Roger)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:59:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multi-Server install
Message-ID:
I inherited a mult-server install of Mailman.
During a recent upgrade of the servers, I'm realizing the
master-qrunner.pid file is in the 'data' directory which is shared between
the two servers.
I have the lock file set to use the hostname in the name of the lock file.
Shouldn't the PID file be in a local directory?
the old servers had a cron entry to re-start mailman every night. I'm
wondering if there was flakiness with a shared PID file going on that was
'fixed' by rebooting mailman nightly.
Roger
From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 26 16:56:29 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 13:56:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change system name after moving mailmain
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <17e3b882-90fc-54a4-cbc6-a01813001276@msapiro.net>
On 08/15/2018 06:16 AM, George R. Kasica wrote:
> I relocated all the mailmain files to a new server (in AWS Cloud) and all is
> working well except the URLS its generating such as for admins to remove
> messages waiting approval all show the old system name for example:
>
> The skunk-works at netwrx1.org mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
> consideration at:
>
> http://eagle.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/skunk-works
>
> which should read:
>
> http://netwrx1-mail.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/skunk-works
>
> How and where can I modify this? I host file entry won't do it - it times
> out.
Ensure DEFAULT_URL_HOST is correct and run fix_url.py.
See for more info.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Sun Aug 26 17:29:48 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 14:29:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Templates for HTML-Pages and TXT-Messages
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <2e3078e8-ca24-7b44-0928-597d571e072c@msapiro.net>
On 08/16/2018 02:29 PM, Kai Thater wrote:
> Hi,
> I am looking for a way to edit the templates for Welcome Messages,
> Usernotices etc. everything you can edit at
> /cgi-bin/mailman/edithtml/
> but for all lists that will be created.
The information in the FAQ article at
is still relevant.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at bradakis.com Mon Aug 27 19:18:56 2018
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 17:18:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sorting pending requests?
Message-ID:
I have a feeling I may have asked this question a few years ago. Maybe not.
When you go to the admin web page of pending moderator requests, the
messages are presented in a list using alphabetical order of the
sender.? Is there a way to easily change this so they are presented by
date, oldest to newest?
Thanks,
mjb.
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Tue Aug 28 03:59:05 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 16:59:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multi-Server install
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <23429.201.601681.984285@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Hi Roger,
First let me apologize on behalf of the project for the delay in
distribution of your post. It appears a few posts got trapped in
limbo for about 10 days, and the delay was definitely between
Mailman's MTA and mine.
Roger writes:
> I inherited a mult-server install of Mailman.
>
> During a recent upgrade of the servers, I'm realizing the
> master-qrunner.pid file is in the 'data' directory which is shared
> between the two servers.
What version is Mailman? I believe that recent versions put the PID
file in the 'lock' directory.
On my Debian installation, that directory is /var/lib/mailman/lock,
which is actually a symlink to /var/lock/mailman. I suspect this
setup is intended to resolve exactly this kind of issue.
> I have the lock file set to use the hostname in the name of the lock file.
>
> Shouldn't the PID file be in a local directory?
Yes. You don't want the operation of local processes to be subject to
network issues.
> the old servers had a cron entry to re-start mailman every night. I'm
> wondering if there was flakiness with a shared PID file going on that was
> 'fixed' by rebooting mailman nightly.
If the name of the host is in the name of the lock file, this should
not cause "flakiness" problems because a conflict between the systems.
However, in my Debian install, I have both master-qrunner and
master-qrunner.., hardlinked to the same file which
contains the full pathname (in /var/lib/mailman/lock).
I think it's more likely that either the whole system including the
network was flaky, or that Mailman isn't designed to be robust in a
multi-host configuration. It's generally designed to be robust
against various failures, so it's probably OK, but "multihost
operation with shared filesystem" was not an explicit design
criterion.
Steve
From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Tue Aug 28 06:03:52 2018
From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:03:52 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gid problem upgrading mailman under opensuse leap 42
Message-ID:
I used to have on my machine a "personal" mailman installation managing a
few small lists (mailman 2.1.14, opensuse 11, MTA=sendmail).
I am now in the process of moving to a new machine with opensuse leap 42
(and mailman 2.1.26 bundled with the distro. MTA is still sendmail).
I would like to share my arrangement, in particular the way I overcame the
error execing script "wanted gid 67 got gid 2".
The solution is not yet in production (the new machine shall replace the
old machine and assume its hostname, so far it THINKS to have the old
hostname via /etc/hosts but the DNS still says to the world the old
machine has the old hostname, so I tested things only locally, but it
looks they work ... the administration web interface runs under a
temporary CNAME, and I was able to add a local user to a test list and
send a message to it).
The new distro has a README.SUSE file which looks unchanged since last
time (and possibly has a problem with the gid's).
So this is the procedure:
(1) make sure /etc/sudoers on the new system contains the commands
present on the old system
(2) copy the entire /var/lib/mailman to the new system. This should
contain the lists, archives, aliases and everything.
(since rsync does not copy all files, a tar "preserving permissions
and dates" was used for a few files)
(3) make a2enflag MAILMAN to configure the new apache web server (it has
already all necessary stuff as of old)
(4) in sendmail.cf make sure to have the line
O AliasFile=/etc/mail/aliases,/etc/mail/mailman.aliases
(5) copy the old script /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases (this is a two-liner
/bin/cp /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mail/mailman.aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases
(6) copy the old local customization at end of mm_cfg.py, in
particularly the three lines used to fake the MTA to be postfix while
it is sendmail, and using the above script for aliases (delivery is
SMTP direct)
(7) in /etc/sysconfig/mailman set MAILMAN_MAIL_GID="daemon"
Now according to the old procedure at this step one should issue
command SuSEconfig -module mailman but this seems not to be working.
So it is NECESSARY to edit manually file /etc/mailman/mailman.mail.gid
and insert there "2" (the gid of daemon)
FAILURE TO DO THIS GENERATES THE GID MISMATCH ERROR MENTIONED ABOVE
(8) (re)start apache, sendmail and mailman
--
Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)
For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"All that is google does not glitter
Nor all who use alpine/procmail are lost"
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 28 16:09:20 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 13:09:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] blocking bad digest replies
In-Reply-To: <38b91f76-8979-e6c9-ba4f-1cdbd70a948b@Damon-Family.org>
References: <5B7CB723.8003.1C8FD08D@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
<38b91f76-8979-e6c9-ba4f-1cdbd70a948b@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <39ebbdc9-25cb-697b-0a25-b2168354fe03@msapiro.net>
On 08/21/2018 08:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 8/21/18 9:06 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
>> I'm a newcomer to replies [first time in many many years I've had digests on one
>> of my lists, so it is all very new to me]. What I would like is to set up a content
>> filter that 'holds' replies by sloppy posters. Specifically, I'd like to catch posts
>> with a Subject line of "Re; " and one that contains the 'footer' at
>> the end of the post [both indicative of a sorta clueless poster who didn't do
>> anything to trim down the digest]. I think/hope the content filtering can do
>> something like that. Yes??
>> /B\
>> Bernie Cosell
>> bernie at fantasyfarm.com
>> -- Too many people; too few sheep --
>>
> It is fairly easy to add a filter for the subject line, (The menu
> location is a bit strange, Privacy Options / Spam Filters
In addition to Privacy Options / Spam Filters / header_filter_rules to
catch digest subjects, you can do other things with a custom handler.
See .
There is also a handler at
which can hold posts
which quote excessively, have no Subject:, have a digest Subject: or
quote digest boilerplate. It would be easy to add a test for the list
footer.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 28 16:45:14 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 13:45:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Something wrong with moving a list
In-Reply-To: <9A2E0AE9-06DE-413F-AE7D-2F2A5BEFB176@mischievous.us>
References: <9A2E0AE9-06DE-413F-AE7D-2F2A5BEFB176@mischievous.us>
Message-ID:
On 08/22/2018 07:01 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> I recently moved a list from one server to another. Probably I missed something. Everything seems to be correct except that the footer which should be produced (using "Personalize: yes") doesn't get the values substituted with the real info. It looks like this:
>
> %(real_name)s mailing list
> %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
>
> Is there something obvious I'm missing?
What if anything is in Mailman's error log?
What if anything do you get from
bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck|grep dollar
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 28 20:05:38 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:05:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sorting pending requests?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On 08/27/2018 04:18 PM, Mark J Bradakis via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I have a feeling I may have asked this question a few years ago. Maybe not.
>
> When you go to the admin web page of pending moderator requests, the
> messages are presented in a list using alphabetical order of the
> sender.? Is there a way to easily change this so they are presented by
> date, oldest to newest?
>From the NEWS file for Mailman 2.1.16
> - There is a new DISPLAY_HELD_SUMMARY_SORT_BUTTONS setting which if set
> in mm_cfg.py will display a set of radio buttons in the admindb held
> message summary to select how the held messages are sorted and grouped
> for display. The exact setting determines the default grouping and
> sorting. See the description in Defaults.py for details.
and from Defaults.py
> # Shall the admindb held message summary display the grouping and sorting
> # option radio buttons? Set this in mm_cfg.py to one of the following:
> # SSENDER -> Default to grouped and sorted by sender.
> # SSENDERTIME -> Default to grouped by sender and sorted by time.
> # STIME -> Default to ungrouped and sorted by time.
> DISPLAY_HELD_SUMMARY_SORT_BUTTONS = No
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From mark at msapiro.net Tue Aug 28 20:23:09 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:23:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multi-Server install
In-Reply-To: <23429.201.601681.984285@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References:
<23429.201.601681.984285@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID:
On 08/28/2018 12:59 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Hi Roger,
>
> First let me apologize on behalf of the project for the delay in
> distribution of your post. It appears a few posts got trapped in
> limbo for about 10 days, and the delay was definitely between
> Mailman's MTA and mine.
If you look at the X-Mailman-Approved-At: header, you'll see the delay
was in moderation and that in turn was because I was off line for 11+
days and no one else was looking.
> Roger writes:
>
> > I inherited a mult-server install of Mailman.
> >
> > During a recent upgrade of the servers, I'm realizing the
> > master-qrunner.pid file is in the 'data' directory which is shared
> > between the two servers.
>
> What version is Mailman? I believe that recent versions put the PID
> file in the 'lock' directory.
There is a master_qrunner lock file in the locks directory but
data/master-qrunner.pid contains the PID of the running Mailman.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Wed Aug 29 03:33:58 2018
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:33:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multi-Server install
In-Reply-To:
References:
<23429.201.601681.984285@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <23430.19558.350905.403427@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Mark Sapiro writes:
> > What version is Mailman? I believe that recent versions put the PID
> > file in the 'lock' directory.
>
> There is a master_qrunner lock file in the locks directory but
> data/master-qrunner.pid contains the PID of the running Mailman.
OK, so this is a Debian patch, I guess -- Debian has two files for
master_qrunner in locks/, and a mailman.pid file in /var/run/.
I think this is a good idea, although "vanilla" mailman probably needs
to put everything under /var/lib/mailman.
Perhaps (at least for Mailman 3) we should make the PID directory an
option (if it isn't already).
From mark at bradakis.com Wed Aug 29 17:55:28 2018
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:55:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sorting pending requests?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
Thanks for the responses, I have it doing what I want it to do now.
mjb.