From engrav at mac.com  Thu Aug  1 00:29:04 2019
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:29:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook
In-Reply-To: <DFFC0B9B-D859-4092-8B2F-03F60E39D847@mac.com>
References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com>
 <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com>
 <F6D2329B-955E-4C54-9E08-4D5EE89E2CDF@mac.com>
 <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com>
 <1e2d444c-b3ed-6f16-b797-d56a564f1674@msapiro.net>
 <DFFC0B9B-D859-4092-8B2F-03F60E39D847@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3130FBFE-B79C-468C-9947-C425978E7CCB@mac.com>

can whitelist on outlook
that seems to have solved outlook problem
yahoo and aol remain
attempts to whitelist there have failed


> On Jul 28, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users <mailman-users at python.org> wrote:
> 
> thank you
> will be interesting
> maybe will help Site5 fix things
> 
> supporting your opinion
> I tried munge and wrap, as mentioned, and neither fixed
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 28, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On 7/28/19 9:52 AM, Bill Cole wrote:
>>> On 28 Jul 2019, at 11:25, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
>>> 
>>>> and searched archives
>>>> and see this goes back years and years
>>>> is there a quick fix I missed in the archives?
>>> 
>>> This looks like a DMARC problem.
>> 
>> 
>> It is not a DMARC issue. The disconnect comes in response to the SMTP
>> RCPT TO command. DMARC can't be checked until after DATA and in any case
>> would normally result in a rejection, not a disconnect.
>> 
>> I started to draft another reply earlier this morning. I will send that
>> soon.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/engrav%40mac.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/engrav%40mac.com


From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Thu Aug  1 05:50:42 2019
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (mailman-admin)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 11:50:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
Message-ID: <6aa5e0c8-fbea-3f12-8f45-d13009c10d8a@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello

Sending text/html emails is ok.
But using "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" with UTF-8 content can get
it dumped if:
* there is any character not ASCII in the whole email
* there is any line with more than 1000 characters in the whole email

Not sure, if that is your problem, as you redacted the contents.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

Am 31.07.19 um 23:13 schrieb Brett Delmage:
> I've been having trouble with one subscriber whose content was always
> stripped.
> 
> After changing a Content filtering flag and discovering that lynx was
> not installed, my tests of my own multipart html + text, and html-only
> messages indicated I had finally had Mailman correctly configured, or so
> it seemed. I got content in both cases.
> 
> But a test message from this user appears to have been eaten by MM.
> Postfix shows delivery to the MM list alias and that's where it ends. MM
> logs nothing for this message in any log and it is not posted.
> 
> Using Mailman version: 2.1.29
> 
> I have included the Content filtering section from bin/config_list and a
> stripped-down version of the message that went AWOL with content and
> headers that are of potential interest.
> 
> I'd welcome any suggestions or requests for more info or next debugging
> steps as may be appropriate. Thank you!
> 
> Brett
> 
> p.s. forget asking this user to send multipart including text. Some
> users are just incapable of that. But if I have to inform him that his
> HTML-only messages as sent will never get through MM, that's ok.
> 
> 
> lost message:
> 
> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:14:23 -0400 (EDT)
> ...
> Message-ID:
> <566705347.6949993.1564600463102.JavaMail.open-xchange at mtlgui02>
> Subject: Re: Please help us test the new freelance email list server
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.6.1-Rev29
> X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
> 
> 
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"><html
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head>
> ??? <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />
> 
> ?</head><body>
> 
> ? <p>Hi Brett:<br />&#160;Would be great to participate in the
> discussions on the list.</p>
> ? <p>thanks</p>
> ? <blockquote type="cite">
> ?? <p>---------- Original Message ---------- ...</p>
> ? </blockquote>
> ? <p>&#62;</p>
> 
> </body></html>
> 
> 
> ---------------
> 
> excerpt of config_list -o:
> 
> filter_content = 1
> 
> filter_mime_types = ''
> 
> pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed
> multipart/alternative
> multipart message/rfc822
> text/plain
> text/html"""
> 
> filter_filename_extensions = """exe
> bat
> cmd
> com
> pif
> scr
> vbs
> cpl
> pdf
> zip
> doc
> rtf
> xls
> vcf"""
> 
> pass_filename_extensions = ''
> 
> collapse_alternatives = True
> 
> convert_html_to_plaintext = True
> 
> filter_action = 3
> 

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Thu Aug  1 10:42:01 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 23:42:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
Message-ID: <23874.64057.40901.401966@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brett Delmage writes:

 > I've been having trouble with one subscriber whose content was always 
 > stripped.
 > 
 > After changing a Content filtering flag and discovering that lynx was not 
 > installed, my tests of my own multipart html + text, and html-only 
 > messages indicated I had finally had Mailman correctly configured, or so 
 > it seemed. I got content in both cases.
 > 
 > But a test message from this user appears to have been eaten by MM. 
 > Postfix shows delivery to the MM list alias and that's where it ends. MM 
 > logs nothing for this message in any log and it is not posted.

Unfortunately, there are some cases where a message is discarded for
some reason and it's not logged in the "vette" log.  Do you have a
"vette" log at all?  (If you don't, it's not a problem, it will be
automatically created when needed.)  The other places it would be
logged, if it reaches the Outgoing queue, are the "post", "smtp", and
maybe "smtp-failure" logs.  You should have "post" and "smtp" logs,
right?  ("smtp-failure" is used when the connection fails, and the
message needs to be retried.)

Does the list have archives?  Check the archives to see if the message
is there.  (I'm pretty sure it won't be, but it slightly narrows the
possible places where the message gets "lost".)

The other possibilities I can think of are that it is hung up in the
retry or shunt queues.  Have you checked those?  (shunt is more
likely, due to some strangeness in the message.  If it's in the retry
queue there should be an entry in the "smtp-failure" log.)

 > p.s. forget asking this user to send multipart including text. Some
 > users are just incapable of that. But if I have to inform him that
 > his HTML-only messages as sent will never get through MM, that's
 > ok.

Well, we'll try a little bit harder to figure out what's going on
here.

 > lost message:

I don't see any problem here, and although too much is redacted (see
my response to Christian for the "ideal" redaction), the fact that
Postfix says the message was delivered to Mailman is very strong
evidence that it is Mailman that "lost" the message.

 > excerpt of config_list -o:

This looks OK to me (Mark is the expert, but he's probably deep in the
mountains on his vacation right now :-).  However, I'd also like to
see the contents of GLOBAL_PIPELINE if it exists in mm_cfg.py (not
Defaults.py, I'm looking for the SpamAssassin or other special
handlers, which are not present in the Defaults.py GLOBAL_PIPELINE),
and your settings for the three "filters" options under "Privacy
options".

Steve


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Thu Aug  1 10:43:49 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 23:43:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?
In-Reply-To: <6aa5e0c8-fbea-3f12-8f45-d13009c10d8a@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
 <6aa5e0c8-fbea-3f12-8f45-d13009c10d8a@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <23874.64165.167192.106443@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Christian,

Thanks for the analysis!

Brett,

Whenever possible, you should send the whole message, preferably as an
attachment, redacting only personally identifying information.  This
includes display names and comments attached to mail addresses as well
as the addresses themselves in From, To, Cc, and Bcc header fields as
well as their "Resent-*" versions, Received header fields (which
frequently contain addresses or personal domains), and the Message-ID
header field, which frequently contains an identifying domain, and of
course such information in the text.  The method of redaction should
be substitution of addresses and domains like "John Doe
<jdoe at example.com>" or other text as appropriate, and note any time
you remove characters other than the usual ASCII characters.  Of
course, it's up to you and the people potentially identified by the
message how much effort you want to put into it, this is the ideal
from our point of view in order to check for the kinds of issues
Christian describes.

Back to Christian, who writes:

 > Sending text/html emails is ok.
 > But using "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" with UTF-8 content can get
 > it dumped if:
 > * there is any character not ASCII in the whole email
 > * there is any line with more than 1000 characters in the whole email

Nice catch!

 > Not sure, if that is your problem, as you redacted the contents.

Seems unlikely, because AFAIK Mailman doesn't check line length AFAIK,
and you'd get a UnicodeError on anything non-ASCII, which would show
up in the "error" log.  Also, I suppose the contents were the original
"please tell me what you think" message that presumably passed through
the list.  Still, an "ideally redacted" message would help to confirm.

Steve

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Thu Aug  1 10:44:41 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 23:44:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook
In-Reply-To: <3130FBFE-B79C-468C-9947-C425978E7CCB@mac.com>
References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com>
 <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com>
 <F6D2329B-955E-4C54-9E08-4D5EE89E2CDF@mac.com>
 <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com>
 <1e2d444c-b3ed-6f16-b797-d56a564f1674@msapiro.net>
 <DFFC0B9B-D859-4092-8B2F-03F60E39D847@mac.com>
 <3130FBFE-B79C-468C-9947-C425978E7CCB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <23874.64217.7871.156598@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users writes:

 > can whitelist on outlook
 > that seems to have solved outlook problem
 > yahoo and aol remain
 > attempts to whitelist there have failed

I'm not sure what you're asking, if anything.  Or are you just
reporting partial success at outlook.com but not Yahoo! and AOL?


From brett at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca  Fri Aug  2 20:15:31 2019
From: brett at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (Brett Delmage)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:15:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?
In-Reply-To: <23874.64165.167192.106443@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
 <6aa5e0c8-fbea-3f12-8f45-d13009c10d8a@uni-konstanz.de>
 <23874.64165.167192.106443@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1908021957210.12454@pannier.local>

Stephen and Christian,

Thank you for your most helpful replies.

I did some additional testing. I remembered (after) that I had a copy of 
the original message as received by Mailman, as I was copying the Mailman 
posting address mail to another mbox for debugging. Also, the user who had 
HTML-only mail was very helpful in working with me to send more test 
messages.

And it is working!

The stupid thing is that I never changed anything.

I did realize that the user had originally copied me on his list message - 
and "nodupes" caused my Mailman copy to not be sent.

With the tester and me being the only list members at the moment it 
therefore appeared that Mailman ate the message because I (and he) were 
the only recipients. (A previously active list is being moved to a new 
domain and is going online on Monday and I was debugging the new config.)

Duh. Blame my oversight on having a terrible summer cold this past week.

In the process though, I did realize that no list admins were subscribed 
to the site mailman list. Whoops.

You both posted useful info to the list which will be in the archives for 
others and me to refer to for similar problems int he future. (I've kept 
my own copy of the MM list messages since 2000 for easy local 
searchability.)

At the end of all my work I was happy to see my local SpamAssassin give 
our list messages a -1.1 score.

Again, thank you for your help and many contributions to this list.

Brett





From engrav at mac.com  Sat Aug  3 10:47:17 2019
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 07:47:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook
In-Reply-To: <23875.51109.740393.827051@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com>
 <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com>
 <F6D2329B-955E-4C54-9E08-4D5EE89E2CDF@mac.com>
 <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com>
 <1e2d444c-b3ed-6f16-b797-d56a564f1674@msapiro.net>
 <DFFC0B9B-D859-4092-8B2F-03F60E39D847@mac.com>
 <3130FBFE-B79C-468C-9947-C425978E7CCB@mac.com>
 <23874.64217.7871.156598@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <13B8E43D-47B8-4D96-939A-E7AAF08A2AF8@mac.com>
 <23875.51109.740393.827051@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <E1D22D6A-CFE1-4829-991F-4E8959C12CF8@mac.com>

Ok
Site5 and U Washington seem to be unable / unwilling to fix so
I tried mailmanlists.net from your link
there, messages to yahoo and aol pass fine
so as you say, probably time to change providers
and, to boot, mailmanlists.net is cheaper

thanks



> On Aug 1, 2019, at 10:18 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
> 
> Loren Engrav writes:
> 
>> does anyone know of a Mailman host that successfully sends to yahoo
>> and aol addresses?
> 
> Many do.
> 
> Your problem is very unlikely to have anything to do with Mailman.  As
> Mark points out, the status message says the connection is dropped
> abruptly at RCPT TO, so at that point the Yahoo/AOL server knows the
> following things:
> 
> 1.  Your Mailman host's IP address,
> 2.  The domain name that your host claims
> 3.  The "envelope return address", which is normally the address of
>    the author of the post (for your test messages, that's you)
> 4.  The addressees you're trying to deliver to.
> 
> 4 is extremely unlikely to be the problem, as long as they're real
> addresses at those hosts (providers don't keep users very long if they
> refuse all mail to them!), and even if one is nonexistent, usually you
> get a failure for that address, but the others go through.  You could
> try confirming that those addresses exist; if you have a pile of
> non-existent addresses, the receiving server might decide you're a
> spammer.  However, most likely all (or 99%) of your addresses are
> valid, and as Mark suggested the receiving server is willing to
> deliver to certain administrative addresses such as "postmaster" and
> "abuse", but discards all others.
> 
> 3 is not very likely unless you personally have offended Yahoo! quite
> severely so your tests don't go through, and of course any messages
> from others wouldn't be affected by your personal reputation.
> 
> It's theoretically possible that a mismatch between 1 and 2 is the
> problem, although you say you've got your server correctly configured.
> The theoretical problem is that if looking up the IP address doesn't
> give the domain or vice versa, some hosts will refuse mail.  But those
> hosts normally do that immediately without waiting for your envelope
> (the return address and the recipients).  So this also is extremely
> unlikely to be the problem.
> 
> So it looks like 1 or 2, i.e., the identity of your host, is the
> problem.  That is, either that domain or the IP address it is using
> has been abusive in the past (spamming, phishing, DoS attacks, etc),
> and the reputation has not been rehabilitated.
> 
> There's not much we can do to help, because it's a host configuration
> problem or reputation problem.  I hate to say this because list admins
> hate to hear it, but you are dependent on your hosting provider.  If
> they can't help you, your only good option is to switch providers.
> Here is a page with several pointers to providers of Mailman hosting:
> 
> https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services
> 
> Here's another with pointers to other pages with information about a
> variety of providers and related services:
> 
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Do%20you%20offer%20Mailman%20hosting%2C%20consulting%2C%20or%20contractor%20services%3F
> 


From scott at qth.com  Tue Aug  6 00:14:03 2019
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:14:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!  I have a list member with a comcast.net email address that is
marking most every list message as spam.  I have Personalization enabled,
and have the subscriber's email address in the footer, but Comcast redacts
the email address.  Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net users
on this list, making this really difficult to find the offender.

I've read through the Mailman Users archives and have seen others with this
problem, and it seems some of you have come up with your own creative
solutions, but no solutions have been posted, hence my request here.  Do
any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that would
put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?

Thank you in advance!

- Scott

From david at midrange.com  Tue Aug  6 08:23:04 2019
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 07:23:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEStNX==SRw1xdysaytLe6qZzDKJa9ha38yJ5NEAk7B7pi6e6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 11:40 PM Scott Neader <scott at qth.com> wrote:
> Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> 'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that would
> put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
> Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?

Check out the RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting in Defaults.py.  That
will let you tag personalized & verped deliveries with the base64
encoding of the recipient's email address.

david


-- 
IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business!

I'm riding 65 miles in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de
Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and
awareness.  You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by
visiting https://mideml.diabetessucks.net.

You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive
donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky
thing).

I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me!

From scott at qth.com  Tue Aug  6 10:02:29 2019
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:02:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAEStNX==SRw1xdysaytLe6qZzDKJa9ha38yJ5NEAk7B7pi6e6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEStNX==SRw1xdysaytLe6qZzDKJa9ha38yJ5NEAk7B7pi6e6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7Dh-KJs0iT5-F_QUrRs1-77CiUs06jj7hW9POu7TBZr4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:24 AM David Gibbs via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users at python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 11:40 PM Scott Neader <scott at qth.com> wrote:
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> > 'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that
> would
> > put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
> > Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?
>
> Check out the RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting in Defaults.py.  That
> will let you tag personalized & verped deliveries with the base64
> encoding of the recipient's email address.
>

Thanks, David!  Unfortunately, Comcast does not supply the full email with
headers.  It only supplies the FROM, TO, CC, BCC, DATE and SUBJECT lines,
plus the BODY. Unless I'm missing something... adding a new header won't
help.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if anyone has any ideas on
getting this info into the footer.

Here's an example Comcast FBL report. As you can see, full headers are not
revealed. They even redact the name of the list, but based on the Subject
line, that has been easy to determine.

This is a Comcast Abuse Report for an email message received from domain
> example.com, IP 1.2.3.4, on Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:57:45 +0000.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Some User <user at example.com>
> To: c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17 <
> c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17 at myserver.com>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:57:45 +0000
> Subject: [c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17] This is the Subject
> Body Content is Here
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17 mailing list
> List Info:
> http://myserver.com/mailman/listinfo/c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17
> Post: mailto:c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17 at myserver.com
>

Again, any ideas or help appreciated!

- Scott

From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net  Tue Aug  6 19:55:14 2019
From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 17:55:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 8/5/19 10:14 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
> Hi all!  I have a list member with a comcast.net email address that is
> marking most every list message as spam.  I have Personalization enabled,
> and have the subscriber's email address in the footer, but Comcast redacts
> the email address.  Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net users
> on this list, making this really difficult to find the offender.

Oy vey!

> Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial 
> 'mark-as-spammer'?

Are you using VERP?

I would think that the VERP data would survive Comcast's redaction.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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From engrav at mac.com  Wed Aug  7 14:20:57 2019
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 11:20:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
Message-ID: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>

sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
like xyz at whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz

with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
I do not receive a bounce message

is this a Mailman issue, host issue, domain issue?  or?

thanks





From bsfinkel at att.net  Wed Aug  7 14:54:05 2019
From: bsfinkel at att.net (Barry S. Finkel)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:54:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
In-Reply-To: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
References: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3878f57d-e2b2-7a45-32fd-2ce66b7191d4@att.net>

On 8/7/2019 1:20 PM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
> sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
> like xyz at whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz
> 
> with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
> I do not receive a bounce message
> 
> is this a Mailman issue, host issue, domain issue?  or?
> 
> thanks

My first thought - are you sure that xyz is an invalid userid?
Try sending a test message from a personal e-mail account.

(Note that I have removed the previous list footer in my reply.)

--Barry Finkel


From engrav at mac.com  Wed Aug  7 16:10:43 2019
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:10:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
In-Reply-To: <3878f57d-e2b2-7a45-32fd-2ce66b7191d4@att.net>
References: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
 <3878f57d-e2b2-7a45-32fd-2ce66b7191d4@att.net>
Message-ID: <1D6D40B5-6629-44BF-82E4-C2E3C47812AF@mac.com>

ah
after a long long time I received a bounce from centurylink.net using 2.1.26 at site5
no bounce as yet from centurylink.net <http://centurylink.net/> using 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net <http://mailmanlists.net/>

the config was not quite the same
so I made mailmanlists config equal centurylink and sent again







> On Aug 7, 2019, at 11:54 AM, Barry S. Finkel <bsfinkel at att.net> wrote:
> 
> On 8/7/2019 1:20 PM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
>> sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
>> like xyz at whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz
>> with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
>> I do not receive a bounce message
>> is this a Mailman issue, host issue, domain issue?  or?
>> thanks
> 
> My first thought - are you sure that xyz is an invalid userid?
> Try sending a test message from a personal e-mail account.
> 
> (Note that I have removed the previous list footer in my reply.)
> 
> --Barry Finkel
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/engrav%40mac.com


From scott at qth.com  Wed Aug  7 16:17:41 2019
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 15:17:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7BFSSeYfLaB5eWAj_Rv2qA2JrV5cHuQXGNmGe3Z5qmT2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:38 PM Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users at python.org> wrote:

> On 8/5/19 10:14 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
> > Hi all!  I have a list member with a comcast.net email address that is
> > marking most every list message as spam.  I have Personalization enabled,
> > and have the subscriber's email address in the footer, but Comcast
> redacts
> > the email address.  Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net
> users
> > on this list, making this really difficult to find the offender.
>
> Oy vey!
>
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> > 'mark-as-spammer'?
>
> Are you using VERP?  I would think that the VERP data would survive
> Comcast's redaction.
>

I appreciate the suggestion, but VERP (as I understand it) changes the
return-path.  I do not get to see any headers, including return-path, other
than the ones I mentioned (To, From, CC, BCC, Subject and the Body
itself).  So, I do not believe VERP will help.

I need a way to put some clue about the recipient into the footer, when
personalization is enabled.  I've seen some past solutions where admins
were successful in adding some type of hash or encoded version of the
recipient's email address into the footer, but the steps to get that done
were not shared.  Open to other ideas.

- Scott

From engrav at mac.com  Wed Aug  7 20:09:55 2019
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 17:09:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
In-Reply-To: <1D6D40B5-6629-44BF-82E4-C2E3C47812AF@mac.com>
References: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
 <3878f57d-e2b2-7a45-32fd-2ce66b7191d4@att.net>
 <1D6D40B5-6629-44BF-82E4-C2E3C47812AF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <97153A79-7227-4E7C-8395-3398EA45164B@mac.com>

so waited ?long? time
no bounce from mailmanlists and 2.1.29

> On Aug 7, 2019, at 1:10 PM, Loren Engrav <engrav at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> ah
> after a long long time I received a bounce from centurylink.net <http://centurylink.net/> using 2.1.26 at site5
> no bounce as yet from centurylink.net <http://centurylink.net/> using 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net <http://mailmanlists.net/>
> 
> the config was not quite the same
> so I made mailmanlists config equal centurylink and sent again
> 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 11:54 AM, Barry S. Finkel <bsfinkel at att.net <mailto:bsfinkel at att.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> On 8/7/2019 1:20 PM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
>>> sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
>>> like xyz at whidbey.com <mailto:xyz at whidbey.com>; whidbey.com <http://whidbey.com/> is ok but there is no xyz
>>> with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com <http://site5.com/> and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net <http://mailmanlists.net/>
>>> I do not receive a bounce message
>>> is this a Mailman issue, host issue, domain issue?  or?
>>> thanks
>> 
>> My first thought - are you sure that xyz is an invalid userid?
>> Try sending a test message from a personal e-mail account.
>> 
>> (Note that I have removed the previous list footer in my reply.)
>> 
>> --Barry Finkel
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org <mailto:Mailman-Users at python.org>
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/engrav%40mac.com
> 


From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Aug  7 20:20:22 2019
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 17:20:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAPLm_7BFSSeYfLaB5eWAj_Rv2qA2JrV5cHuQXGNmGe3Z5qmT2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <CAPLm_7BFSSeYfLaB5eWAj_Rv2qA2JrV5cHuQXGNmGe3Z5qmT2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3db2418-2ed4-635b-e667-2b24005c15f4@tuunq.com>

On 8/7/2019 1:17 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
> I need a way to put some clue about the recipient into the footer, when
> personalization is enabled.  I've seen some past solutions where admins
> were successful in adding some type of hash or encoded version of the
> recipient's email address into the footer, but the steps to get that done
> were not shared.  Open to other ideas.

See-
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20variables%20can%20I%20use%20in%20the%20headers%20and%20footers%20added%20to%20messages%20by%20Mailman%3F

I regularly get email from a list with the footer (redacted)
===
UUU mailing list
UUU at DOMAIN.org
http://listsmgt.DOMAIN.org/mailman/listinfo/UUU
Sent to Carl Zwanzig at zbang at sonic.net
All posts to the UUU mailing list are copyright the individual senders.
===


z!

From dlj04 at josephson.com  Wed Aug  7 21:00:13 2019
From: dlj04 at josephson.com (David Josephson)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 18:00:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <c3db2418-2ed4-635b-e667-2b24005c15f4@tuunq.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <CAPLm_7BFSSeYfLaB5eWAj_Rv2qA2JrV5cHuQXGNmGe3Z5qmT2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <c3db2418-2ed4-635b-e667-2b24005c15f4@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <f4efeac6-7ea4-da11-595e-c71e4b2fc906@josephson.com>

Wouldn't it be simple enough just to use rot13, or the senders name 
without the domain?

On 8/7/2019 5:20 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> On 8/7/2019 1:17 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
>> I need a way to put some clue about the recipient into the footer, when
>> personalization is enabled.? I've seen some past solutions where admins
>> were successful in adding some type of hash or encoded version of the
>> recipient's email address into the footer, but the steps to get that done
>> were not shared.? Open to other ideas.
> 
> See-
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20variables%20can%20I%20use%20in%20the%20headers%20and%20footers%20added%20to%20messages%20by%20Mailman%3F 
> 
> 
> I regularly get email from a list with the footer (redacted)
> ===
> UUU mailing list
> UUU at DOMAIN.org
> http://listsmgt.DOMAIN.org/mailman/listinfo/UUU
> Sent to Carl Zwanzig at zbang at sonic.net
> All posts to the UUU mailing list are copyright the individual senders.
> ===
> 
> 
> z!

From david at midrange.com  Wed Aug  7 21:23:13 2019
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 20:23:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <f4efeac6-7ea4-da11-595e-c71e4b2fc906@josephson.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <CAPLm_7BFSSeYfLaB5eWAj_Rv2qA2JrV5cHuQXGNmGe3Z5qmT2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <c3db2418-2ed4-635b-e667-2b24005c15f4@tuunq.com>
 <f4efeac6-7ea4-da11-595e-c71e4b2fc906@josephson.com>
Message-ID: <CAEStNX=oH61OMc=XKuF408y0iPVehr2it_rDDOyGKwdA+fNmzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:18 PM David Josephson <dlj04 at josephson.com> wrote:

> Wouldn't it be simple enough just to use rot13, or the senders name
> without the domain?
>
>
The first thing they redact is the users name.

David

>
> --
IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business!

I'm riding 65 miles in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to
raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness.  You
can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting
https://mideml.diabetessucks.net.

You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive
donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing).

I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me!

From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Aug  7 21:58:48 2019
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 18:58:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAEStNX=oH61OMc=XKuF408y0iPVehr2it_rDDOyGKwdA+fNmzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac36b749-52e0-d1ed-7efb-5ff434a2f5d1@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <CAPLm_7BFSSeYfLaB5eWAj_Rv2qA2JrV5cHuQXGNmGe3Z5qmT2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <c3db2418-2ed4-635b-e667-2b24005c15f4@tuunq.com>
 <f4efeac6-7ea4-da11-595e-c71e4b2fc906@josephson.com>
 <CAEStNX=oH61OMc=XKuF408y0iPVehr2it_rDDOyGKwdA+fNmzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cfcd4d87-9f12-c5d7-4a27-095fffa0cdf3@tuunq.com>

On 8/7/2019 6:23 PM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:18 PM David Josephson<dlj04 at josephson.com>  wrote:
> 
>> Wouldn't it be simple enough just to use rot13, or the senders name
>> without the domain?
>>
> The first thing they redact is the users name.

That's if they edit (or send) the footer at all. You could edit the footer 
generation code to rot13 the name or perhaps put it in the msg body. Or even 
to put the message ID in the footer, too.

Later,

z!

From scott at qth.com  Thu Aug  8 22:55:35 2019
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 21:55:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAEStNX==SRw1xdysaytLe6qZzDKJa9ha38yJ5NEAk7B7pi6e6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEStNX==SRw1xdysaytLe6qZzDKJa9ha38yJ5NEAk7B7pi6e6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7CYORhVDh=DOV=E5WS=65dDTTEJEC5GyKJtFWJQtVX0Cw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:24 AM David Gibbs via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users at python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 11:40 PM Scott Neader <scott at qth.com> wrote:
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> > 'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that
> would
> > put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
> > Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?
>
> Check out the RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting in Defaults.py.  That
> will let you tag personalized & verped deliveries with the base64
> encoding of the recipient's email address.


I want to send a BIG thanks to David Gibbs on this one.  This actually
worked perfectly!  The body of the FBL report shows just the basic To,
From, Subject, Date/Time and Body, so I did not think adding a new header
would do diddly-squat.  I *wrongly* assumed that the FBL reports do not
include any header information.  David and I traded some direct emails on
the topic and he finally convinced me to do a "View Original" or "View
Source" (depending on your email client) on the FBL report from Comcast and
low and behold... the full headers are exposed... not only from the FBL
itself, but *also* from the original offending message that the ISP
forwarded in the FBL.  So, you have two sets of headers to scroll
through... but, sure enough, my new header was there, exposing the culprit
list subscriber that was flagging all emails as spam.

Here's a step-by-step (not hard) to get this going:

1) At the server level, Personalization or VERP must be enabled. I chose
Personalization since I already had it enabled.  This is done by adding
"OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes" to mm_cfg.py
2) At the list level, Personalization needs to be set to Yes (Non-Digest
options > Personalize)
3) At the server level, add " RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-Mailman-R-Data'
" to mm_cfg.py

This will add a new header to each email, like this:

X-Mailman-R-Data: Ym9ndXNzcGFtcmVwb3J0ZXJAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ=
>

 My next goal is to try VERP, and see if I can use that to find the
habitual "mark as spam" folks on some Digest emails. Personalization
doesn't work for Digests, but maybe VERP will?

Again, thanks David Gibbs for sticking with me on this!!

- Scott

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Aug  9 03:17:54 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 16:17:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1908021957210.12454@pannier.local>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907311701020.4204@pannier.local>
 <6aa5e0c8-fbea-3f12-8f45-d13009c10d8a@uni-konstanz.de>
 <23874.64165.167192.106443@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1908021957210.12454@pannier.local>
Message-ID: <23885.7714.185581.263078@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Sorry for the delay, I left this in my drafts folder "for lunch" and
forgot it.

Brett Delmage writes:

 > And it is working!

Great!  Thank you for reporting status.

 > The stupid thing is that I never changed anything.

That's useful to know, it means I'm not going crazy.  But these things
happen to all of us, and it's frequently something in the environment
of the moment that does it.  Hard to track down, glad you found your
issue.

Steve

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Aug  9 03:20:44 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 16:20:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23885.7884.745596.611417@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Have you had any luck with this in the last couple of days?

Scott Neader writes:

 > I have Personalization enabled, and have the subscriber's email
 > address in the footer, but Comcast redacts the email address.
 > Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net users on this
 > list, making this really difficult to find the offender.

Does the returned mail contain the full trace of "Received" fields?
If you're very lucky, one of them may contain the offender's address.

Otherwise, the oldest one frequently has an MTA queue id from your MTA
(and depending on your network, there may be a couple of these under
your control in the Received chain), and that can be matched with the
queue id in the MTA's log, which will typically tell you who it was
sent to.  Since you have full personalization enabled, there should be
one such queue id per message.  Here is an example of my own:

Received: from steve by turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <steve at turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>)
	id 1htOUc-0000Rx-F5; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 12:44:34 +0900

2019-08-02 12:44:39 1htOUc-0000Rx-F5 => mailman-developers at python.org R=dn...

The log line is truncated by me since the rest is irrelevant, the MTA
is Exim.  Note that some MTAs don't do this, some MTAs don't do it by
default, but you can reconfigure the log message and the Received
header this way.  And some MTAs that do it change the prefix or suffix
of the queue id at various stages, so you may need to search on a
truncated portion of the full id.

 > I've read through the Mailman Users archives and have seen others with this
 > problem, and it seems some of you have come up with your own creative
 > solutions, but no solutions have been posted,

Here's a partial solution from Mailman-Developers:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2012-June/022200.html

(the "partial" is because you'll have to come up with your own way to
iterate over the mailing list and match MD5s).  I suspect you can get
the same effect by base64- or base85-encoding the email address, or
even simply %-encoding (or removing!) all the punctuation, instead of
MD5-ing.  Those are easily reversible, and the punctuation-munging
solutions can be "decoded" by eye!

Note that it's barely possible you're using the Sendmail.py module, in
which case you will have the line "DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'" in
mm_cfg.py.  If so, come back and we can discuss the "cons" (there are
no "pros") of that module, and what to do next.


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Aug  9 04:10:38 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 17:10:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
In-Reply-To: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
References: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
Message-ID: <23885.10878.783170.564157@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users writes:

 > sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
 > like xyz at whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz
 > 
 > with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
 > I do not receive a bounce message

Some sites refuse to send bounces on those because it could be a
spammer probing for valid addresses.  That's quite unusual as far as I
know.  It could be one of those sites that sends garbage bounces that
are not recognized by Mailman, in which case it should be sent to the
list owner or the site admin list mailman at list.example.com.  Have you
checked those mailboxes?  Other than that, not sure.

Steve


From engrav at mac.com  Fri Aug  9 11:02:11 2019
From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:02:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
In-Reply-To: <23885.10878.783170.564157@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
 <23885.10878.783170.564157@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C0043C30-732F-4AC0-9DFC-543FCC302C14@mac.com>

hi

I ?talked? to mailmanlists.net

seems they fixed the problem as I now get bounce messages

thanks

> On Aug 9, 2019, at 1:10 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
> 
> Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users writes:
> 
>> sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
>> like xyz at whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz
>> 
>> with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
>> I do not receive a bounce message
> 
> Some sites refuse to send bounces on those because it could be a
> spammer probing for valid addresses.  That's quite unusual as far as I
> know.  It could be one of those sites that sends garbage bounces that
> are not recognized by Mailman, in which case it should be sent to the
> list owner or the site admin list mailman at list.example.com.  Have you
> checked those mailboxes?  Other than that, not sure.
> 
> Steve
> 


From MGraves at acog.org  Fri Aug  9 18:35:24 2019
From: MGraves at acog.org (Mark Graves)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 22:35:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB304281FF2D8FCA3DF5B4CBD0DDD60@BN6PR13MB3042.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

help


From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Aug  9 20:19:46 2019
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 18:19:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB304281FF2D8FCA3DF5B4CBD0DDD60@BN6PR13MB3042.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB304281FF2D8FCA3DF5B4CBD0DDD60@BN6PR13MB3042.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5b28229c-3a90-7373-a09e-d5370a11f7cf@bradakis.com>


Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3



From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Sun Aug  4 13:20:41 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 12:20:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxkssENoaxwU9r2MVJUON2CNMKaXwxa-hCqNXu=k=fz5MrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxkssENoaxwU9r2MVJUON2CNMKaXwxa-hCqNXu=k=fz5MrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACRzxksoPBicbbcnh4124dsWzOaDJ1dEsRMrR3Cpd4Ok9e3FsA@mail.gmail.com>

A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list but
messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some file
has become corrupted or a permissions issue.

I also see entries such as the following in the errors logs:

Aug 04 06:47:41 2019 (20501) No such list "aewa<[55":
Aug 04 11:05:13 2019 (28708) No such list "aewa<https:":

I have run check_perms with no problems found.

Has anyone see this before or can suggest a solution?

TIA
Bill

From vgandhi at fdu.edu  Fri Aug  9 08:52:52 2019
From: vgandhi at fdu.edu (Mr. Vishal Gandhi)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 12:52:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version
 2.1.15 on RHEL7
In-Reply-To: <879d5937-cb3e-360c-3dbc-286d864cfbcb@ziobro.rochester.ny.us>
References: <DM6PR07MB58986B17549F6283AE9AF5D5ACCE0@DM6PR07MB5898.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
 <879d5937-cb3e-360c-3dbc-286d864cfbcb@ziobro.rochester.ny.us>
Message-ID: <SN6PR07MB543809BB1F69E4EE79AFC67EACD60@SN6PR07MB5438.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you so much for providing me guidance, Jim.  We have mailing lists on our in-house which we want to decommission.  So, we have to keep the email addresses same for the respective mailing lists (means they must have @fdu.edu domain).


I wrote a program to create mailing lists using a default config file which has default settings including domain set to fdu.edu .  I added code which takes the list of subscribers for the mailing list exported from old system and subscribes them to the newly created mailing list which looks like is working based on some internal testing.


Thank you again for your help and guidance.  We really appreciate it.


[cid:05b1c1e2-8ba7-4dba-9549-f1fc7287c3a8]
Vishal K. Gandhi
Systems Analyst/Application Developer/E-Mail Specialist
University Systems and Networking
1000 River Road, Teaneck NJ 07666
Mail Stop: T-BH1-01
[phone]: 201-692-2414 | [fax] : 201-692-2494 | [email] : vgandhi at fdu.edu<mailto:vgandhi at fdu.edu>
"Fairleigh Dickinson University will never
                                 ask for your password. Please do not share it with others!"





________________________________
From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+vgandhi=fdu.edu at python.org> on behalf of Jim Ziobro <list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 3:45 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7

On 7/16/2019 8:24 AM, Mr. Vishal Gandhi wrote:
> We installed Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 using yum. We don't want mailing lists' email addresses with the same domain as the server has. For example: server is example1.fdu.edu . We would like to have email addresses of the mailing lists to end with @fdu.edu so that someone sends email tolist1 at fdu.edu  and the subscribers of the the mailing list list1 will receive it. Can some one please provide us some guidance on how can we accomplish this?
>
> We'll appreciate any help or guidance we may receive.

An important consideration is whether you want to let your Mailman
system create an arbitrary mailing list.  For example would your mail
admin allow the Mailman system create a list named: vgandhi at fdu.edu?

The easiest solution is to create mailing lists in a separate name space
(domain).  The common practice is to create lists under lists.fdu.edu.
Then Mm-handler is the easy solution.  You can ignore all the troubles
with generating aliases files.  If your mail admin really wants the list
to appear in fdu.edu they can add the aliases under fdu.edu.  Mm-handler
is shown for sendmail but it will work in any mailer.

My updates to mm-handler are on: http://sw.ziobro.info/mm-handler/


Ciao,
//Z\\
Jim Ziobro




------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vgandhi%40fdu.edu

From vgandhi at fdu.edu  Fri Aug  9 08:57:54 2019
From: vgandhi at fdu.edu (Mr. Vishal Gandhi)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 12:57:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version
 2.1.15 on RHEL7
In-Reply-To: <18d56d03-92b6-0ae7-1661-646451d5c14e@msapiro.net>
References: <DM6PR07MB58986B17549F6283AE9AF5D5ACCE0@DM6PR07MB5898.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
 <18d56d03-92b6-0ae7-1661-646451d5c14e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <SN6PR07MB54383DB5CFAED6E16567C9C0ACD60@SN6PR07MB5438.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Mark,


Thank you so much for providing me guidance.  We have mailing lists on our in-house which we want to decommission.  So, we have to keep the email addresses same for the respective mailing lists (means they must have @fdu.edu domain).


I wrote a program to create mailing lists using a default config file which has default settings including domain set to fdu.edu .  I added code which takes the list of subscribers for the mailing list exported from old system and subscribes them to the newly created mailing list which looks like is working based on some internal testing.  Also, we made only one change in mm_cfg.py file which is to change http: to https: so that url generated for newly created mailing list are secure links (ex. starts with https instead of default http).


I am curious whether there are any guides or security best practices for Mailman?  Our mailman version is 2.1.15 on RHEL7.


Thank you again for your help and guidance.  We really appreciate it.


[cid:3c7cfcc5-5781-418e-97d0-4d5a0b5036d6]
Vishal K. Gandhi
Systems Analyst/Application Developer/E-Mail Specialist
University Systems and Networking
1000 River Road, Teaneck NJ 07666
Mail Stop: T-BH1-01
[phone]: 201-692-2414 | [fax] : 201-692-2494 | [email] : vgandhi at fdu.edu<mailto:vgandhi at fdu.edu>
"Fairleigh Dickinson University will never
                                 ask for your password. Please do not share it with others!"





________________________________
From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+vgandhi=fdu.edu at python.org> on behalf of Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 7:08 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7

On 7/16/19 5:24 AM, Mr. Vishal Gandhi wrote:
> We installed Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 using yum. We don't want mailing lists' email addresses with the same domain as the server has. For example: server is example1.fdu.edu . We would like to have email addresses of the mailing lists to end with @fdu.edu so that someone sends email to list1 at fdu.edu and the subscribers of the the mailing list list1 will receive it. Can some one please provide us some guidance on how can we accomplish this?
>
> We'll appreciate any help or guidance we may receive.

First of all, the primary support resource for this package should be
RedHat. See <https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>.

That said, see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030592>

What you want in mm_cfg.py is

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'fdu.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'fdu.edu'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

The second line above, DEFAULT_URL_HOST should be set to whatever host
name you want for accessing the web UI.

Then, if you have existing lists, you need to run Mailman's

bin/withlist -a -r fix_url

to update those.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vgandhi%40fdu.edu

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 12 17:24:05 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:24:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxksoPBicbbcnh4124dsWzOaDJ1dEsRMrR3Cpd4Ok9e3FsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxkssENoaxwU9r2MVJUON2CNMKaXwxa-hCqNXu=k=fz5MrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACRzxksoPBicbbcnh4124dsWzOaDJ1dEsRMrR3Cpd4Ok9e3FsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4480ac04-fc2b-e8dc-fc46-dcdc0900f2ae@msapiro.net>

On 8/4/19 10:20 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list but
> messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some file
> has become corrupted or a permissions issue.
> 
> I also see entries such as the following in the errors logs:
> 
> Aug 04 06:47:41 2019 (20501) No such list "aewa<[55":
> Aug 04 11:05:13 2019 (28708) No such list "aewa<https:":


These look like typical brain-dead web crawler issues.


> I have run check_perms with no problems found.
> 
> Has anyone see this before or can suggest a solution?


See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 12 21:39:51 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 18:39:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address
In-Reply-To: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
References: <FEFCC7D7-AE4C-47AE-8F4E-C8C744DF6511@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5a69e38b-0e56-2864-75d2-917a6eda0200@msapiro.net>

On 8/7/19 11:20 AM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:
> sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
> like xyz at whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz
> 
> with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
> I do not receive a bounce message


Is there anything logged in Mailman's bounce log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 13:27:47 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 12:27:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxksoPBicbbcnh4124dsWzOaDJ1dEsRMrR3Cpd4Ok9e3FsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxkssENoaxwU9r2MVJUON2CNMKaXwxa-hCqNXu=k=fz5MrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACRzxksoPBicbbcnh4124dsWzOaDJ1dEsRMrR3Cpd4Ok9e3FsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACRzxktBJb7H4YtzvUNADTehg_jP0CiQcPCe+mOHSJT=expKmw@mail.gmail.com>

A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list via
the web interface but I can add/delete from the command line.  Also, I
cannot approve or delete moderated messages from the web interface.  I
suspect either some file has become corrupted or a permissions issue.

I also see entries such as the following in the errors logs:

Aug 04 06:47:41 2019 (20501) No such list "aewa<[55":
Aug 04 11:05:13 2019 (28708) No such list "aewa<https:":

I have run check_perms with no problems found.

Has anyone see this before or can suggest a solution?

TIA
Bill

From scott at qth.com  Tue Aug 13 13:42:08 2019
From: scott at qth.com (Scott Neader)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 12:42:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <23885.7884.745596.611417@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <23885.7884.745596.611417@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAPLm_7CFgETGo-PQuFLg+jviESb2sLmn_a_0NcB_w2Wc5V1v2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 2:55 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:

> Have you had any luck with this in the last couple of days?
>

Hi Stephen (and all).  Indeed, I am having MUCH luck with this!  First, the
option to base64 encode the recipient's email as a new header with the
RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME config setting (discussed in my last post) is
working great!  In addition, as you mentioned, I am ALSO getting lucky in
reviewing the headers for the queue id... and I am using this successfully
on one older server that has an older version of Mailman (which does not
have the base64 option).

So, I am in really good shape at this point... thank you!!!

- Scott

Scott Neader writes:
>
>  > I have Personalization enabled, and have the subscriber's email
>  > address in the footer, but Comcast redacts the email address.
>  > Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net users on this
>  > list, making this really difficult to find the offender.
>
> Does the returned mail contain the full trace of "Received" fields?
> If you're very lucky, one of them may contain the offender's address.
>
> Otherwise, the oldest one frequently has an MTA queue id from your MTA
> (and depending on your network, there may be a couple of these under
> your control in the Received chain), and that can be matched with the
> queue id in the MTA's log, which will typically tell you who it was
> sent to.  Since you have full personalization enabled, there should be
> one such queue id per message.  Here is an example of my own:
>
> Received: from steve by turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 4.92)
>         (envelope-from <steve at turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>)
>         id 1htOUc-0000Rx-F5; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 12:44:34 +0900
>
> 2019-08-02 12:44:39 1htOUc-0000Rx-F5 => mailman-developers at python.org
> R=dn...
>
> The log line is truncated by me since the rest is irrelevant, the MTA
> is Exim.  Note that some MTAs don't do this, some MTAs don't do it by
> default, but you can reconfigure the log message and the Received
> header this way.  And some MTAs that do it change the prefix or suffix
> of the queue id at various stages, so you may need to search on a
> truncated portion of the full id.
>
>  > I've read through the Mailman Users archives and have seen others with
> this
>  > problem, and it seems some of you have come up with your own creative
>  > solutions, but no solutions have been posted,
>
> Here's a partial solution from Mailman-Developers:
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2012-June/022200.html
>
> (the "partial" is because you'll have to come up with your own way to
> iterate over the mailing list and match MD5s).  I suspect you can get
> the same effect by base64- or base85-encoding the email address, or
> even simply %-encoding (or removing!) all the punctuation, instead of
> MD5-ing.  Those are easily reversible, and the punctuation-munging
> solutions can be "decoded" by eye!
>
> Note that it's barely possible you're using the Sendmail.py module, in
> which case you will have the line "DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'" in
> mm_cfg.py.  If so, come back and we can discuss the "cons" (there are
> no "pros") of that module, and what to do next.
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 14 00:50:16 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 21:50:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxktBJb7H4YtzvUNADTehg_jP0CiQcPCe+mOHSJT=expKmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxkssENoaxwU9r2MVJUON2CNMKaXwxa-hCqNXu=k=fz5MrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACRzxksoPBicbbcnh4124dsWzOaDJ1dEsRMrR3Cpd4Ok9e3FsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACRzxktBJb7H4YtzvUNADTehg_jP0CiQcPCe+mOHSJT=expKmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23a19137-d42d-9dff-17e1-f477972250db@msapiro.net>

On 8/13/19 10:27 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages.


Your original post of Aug 4 was held for moderation and approved on Aug
12 (I was off line on a back-country trip and no one else was doing
moderator tasks). My reply on Aug 12 is at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2019-August/084657.html>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed Aug 14 13:08:16 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 02:08:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports
In-Reply-To: <CAPLm_7CFgETGo-PQuFLg+jviESb2sLmn_a_0NcB_w2Wc5V1v2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPLm_7ChFXdFgGJZR9s=K9iFEZQai=PXgyPujArZVr60QtrsOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <23885.7884.745596.611417@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPLm_7CFgETGo-PQuFLg+jviESb2sLmn_a_0NcB_w2Wc5V1v2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23892.16384.398624.434332@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Scott Neader writes:

 > Hi Stephen (and all).  Indeed, I am having MUCH luck with this!  First, the
 > option to base64 encode the recipient's email as a new header with the
 > RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME config setting (discussed in my last post) is
 > working great!  In addition, as you mentioned, I am ALSO getting lucky in
 > reviewing the headers for the queue id...

Note to myself: add to FAQ.

 > So, I am in really good shape at this point... thank you!!!

Thank you for the followup, and for your support of Mailman!

Steve

-- 
Associate Professor              Division of Policy and Planning Science
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/     Faculty of Systems and Information
Email: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp                   University of Tsukuba
Tel: 029-853-5175                 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN

From dpane at cmu.edu  Thu Aug 15 13:54:07 2019
From: dpane at cmu.edu (David Pane)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:54:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Acknowledging sender when moderated message is
 accepted
Message-ID: <7b1f583c-08fe-3ad6-a025-3794777880c9@cmu.edu>


I administer a mailman (version 2.1.15) server (CentOS 7) which contain 
40-50 lists (including umbrella lists).? When a sender's email is held 
for moderation, we would like to acknowledge the sender when that post 
is "Accepted" by the moderator in a similar fashion as we do when the 
moderator "Rejects" a message (default message with ability to 
customize).? This will avoid the user wondering if the email was sent 
out to the list.

The acknowledge option gets us part of the way, but I could not find a 
way to acknowledge non-members who post to a list. It is common for a 
non-member to send legitimate email to our lists (e.g. faculty member 
sending to student lists).? I believe there will also be an issue with 
receiving acknowledgements from one of the individual list member of an 
umbrella list since they are not treated as an ordinary users thus they 
cannot set the acknowledge option flag for that list.

I have tried using the setting "Receive your own posts to the list?" set 
it to "Yes" and the server logs show an email is being sent, the email 
provider's duplicate suppression renders the user not actually seeing 
that email come into their inbox.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
David

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 16 10:39:46 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 07:39:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Acknowledging sender when moderated message is
 accepted
In-Reply-To: <7b1f583c-08fe-3ad6-a025-3794777880c9@cmu.edu>
References: <7b1f583c-08fe-3ad6-a025-3794777880c9@cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <82711799-3118-cdb5-4e4a-b292d2a2e2e6@msapiro.net>

On 8/15/19 10:54 AM, David Pane wrote:
> 
> I administer a mailman (version 2.1.15) server (CentOS 7) which contain
> 40-50 lists (including umbrella lists).? When a sender's email is held
> for moderation, we would like to acknowledge the sender when that post
> is "Accepted" by the moderator in a similar fashion as we do when the
> moderator "Rejects" a message (default message with ability to
> customize).? This will avoid the user wondering if the email was sent
> out to the list.
...
> Any help is greatly appreciated. 


Look at Mailman/ListAdmin.py. This module defines a __handlepost()
method. Within that definition there is a set of alternatives based on
'value'. I.e.

        if value == mm_cfg.DEFER:
            ...
        elif value == mm_cfg.APPROVE:
            ...
        elif value == mm_cfg.REJECT:
            ...
        else:
            ...

Within the 'REJECT' code there is a call to __refuse() to send the
rejection notice to the sender.

You could add a __approve() method similar to __refuse() to send the
approved notice to the user and call it from within the 'APPROVE' code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From debianflo at gmx.at  Mon Aug 19 05:23:25 2019
From: debianflo at gmx.at (Flo)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:23:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you are
 not logged in
Message-ID: <0de353c3-0b71-4ffc-aabf-029ae2570a86@gmx.at>

Dear all,

I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in. For
example:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at

The 'Edit the public HTML pages and text files' option at the admin
interface only contains a possibility to adapt the option page for
members who are already logged in.

How can I adapt the page I described first?

Thank you for any help.
Flo.

PS: I am using 2.1.19

From jhs at berklix.com  Mon Aug 19 10:09:26 2019
From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 16:09:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:23:25 +0200."
 <0de353c3-0b71-4ffc-aabf-029ae2570a86@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>

Flo wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in. For
> example:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at

That would be a massive security hole, Or I do not understand what you mean.

To simulate what you are looking at I tried an edited URL
http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/options/test/somename%40stolenvotes.uk


> The 'Edit the public HTML pages and text files' option at the admin
> interface

Do you mean at your equivalent of my
	http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/admin/test


> only contains a possibility to adapt the option page for
> members who are already logged in.

No.  An admin can edit individuals' attributes regardless if user is logged in.

I see eg:
	http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/admin/test/members
With a table of addresses & attributes, 
	unsub
	
	member address
	member name
		
	mod
		
	hide
		
	nomail
	[reason]
		
	ack
		
	not metoo
		
	nodupes
		
	digest
		
	plain
		
	language



> How can I adapt the page I described first?

It may help people answer if you quote more URLs
& if you want to change attributes for whole list or individual member ?


> Thank you for any help.
> Flo.
> 
> PS: I am using 2.1.19

I'm on mailman-2.1.22

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent
 700,000 Brexit votes stolen from British in EU; 2.4 M UK young had no vote;
 1.6 M died; Lies paid & fined. Treason to threaten parliament to prorogue it.
			http://stolenvotes.uk

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 19 14:59:56 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:59:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>
References: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <3BF64232-E847-483A-ACDF-9E2F3BE4EEB1@msapiro.net>

On August 19, 2019 7:09:26 AM PDT, "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs at berklix.com> wrote:
>Flo wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in.
>For
>> example:
>>
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at
>
>That would be a massive security hole, Or I do not understand what you
>mean.


At first I thought the same, but the subject is clear. He wants to edit the response one gets when going to one's options page without being logged in.

I'll post a detailed response to that when I get home.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 19 14:51:48 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>
References: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <E9BCE84E-D291-4BE2-904B-842495C7F397@msapiro.net>

On August 19, 2019 7:09:26 AM PDT, "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs at berklix.com> wrote:
>Flo wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in.
>For
>> example:
>>
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at
>
>That would be a massive security hole, Or I do not understand what you
>mean.


At first I thought the same, but the subject is clear. He wants to edit the response one gets when going to one's options page without being logged in.

I'll post a detailed response to that when I get home.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 19 18:38:09 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 15:38:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: <0de353c3-0b71-4ffc-aabf-029ae2570a86@gmx.at>
References: <0de353c3-0b71-4ffc-aabf-029ae2570a86@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <54f0e58f-6877-6227-5a4a-39c241b017b1@msapiro.net>

On 8/19/19 2:23 AM, Flo wrote:
> 
> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in. For
> example:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at


This page is built on the fly by the loginpage() function in
Mailman/Cgi/options.py using hard coded strings. See the FAQ I just
created at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892046> for suggested ways to
change these strings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Aug 20 04:43:13 2019
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 10:43:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch against mm2.1 which adds sync_members
 functionality to the GUI
Message-ID: <20190820084311.3zmzt6moj7w75wfm@charite.de>

attached are two patches against mm2.1 which add sync_members
functionality to the GUI
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
https://www.charite.de             Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155
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From debianflo at gmx.at  Tue Aug 20 05:06:24 2019
From: debianflo at gmx.at (Flo)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:06:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>
References: <201908191409.x7JE9QUJ021209@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <5a95e70f-bdbc-8cfd-e406-91f54563e48c@gmx.at>



On 8/19/19 4:09 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> Flo wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in. For
>> example:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at
> 
> That would be a massive security hole, Or I do not understand what you mean.
> 

I apologize for not being clear in that sentence. Yes, it can be easily
understood the way you did. I think, Mark got it.

Thank you for replying!

Regard,
Flo

From debianflo at gmx.at  Tue Aug 20 05:31:26 2019
From: debianflo at gmx.at (Flo)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:31:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: <54f0e58f-6877-6227-5a4a-39c241b017b1@msapiro.net>
References: <0de353c3-0b71-4ffc-aabf-029ae2570a86@gmx.at>
 <54f0e58f-6877-6227-5a4a-39c241b017b1@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <c19d3c9a-66d5-83d9-e7af-274336486da4@gmx.at>



On 8/20/19 12:38 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 8/19/19 2:23 AM, Flo wrote:
>>
>> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in. For
>> example:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at
> 
> 
> This page is built on the fly by the loginpage() function in
> Mailman/Cgi/options.py using hard coded strings. See the FAQ I just
> created at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892046> for suggested ways to
> change these strings.
> 

I checked this page. And checked the source files.

Before I change anything I see, let's say, difficulties:

.) The changes are not by list (as possible for the listinfo page, for
example) but by server.
.) I want to rearrange the sections: the unsubscribe section should be
first to make it easy to leave the list (to be more compliant to the
General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) in Europe). For me, sending a
one-click link (with the password included) is not compliant as this is
a data security issue.
For this rearranging I need to change options.py as well.
.) With every update I do I need to redo the changes described before.

Especially the German page needs to be changed. Translation is wrong. I
think some text from another page found its way to this page. For that I
will get in contact with the one who is dealing the the German
translation anyway.

Do you see a possibility to work around the difficulties I described above?

Thank you!

Regards,
Flo.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 20 10:41:32 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 07:41:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing the options page shown to you when you
 are not logged in
In-Reply-To: <c19d3c9a-66d5-83d9-e7af-274336486da4@gmx.at>
References: <0de353c3-0b71-4ffc-aabf-029ae2570a86@gmx.at>
 <54f0e58f-6877-6227-5a4a-39c241b017b1@msapiro.net>
 <c19d3c9a-66d5-83d9-e7af-274336486da4@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <084622ab-4304-ffe3-b7c6-063581621a5b@msapiro.net>

On 8/20/19 2:31 AM, Flo wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/20/19 12:38 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> On 8/19/19 2:23 AM, Flo wrote:
>>>
>>> I want to adapt the member options page when I am *not* logged in. For
>>> example:
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/debianflo%40gmx.at
>>
>>
>> This page is built on the fly by the loginpage() function in
>> Mailman/Cgi/options.py using hard coded strings. See the FAQ I just
>> created at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892046> for suggested ways to
>> change these strings.
>>
> 
> I checked this page. And checked the source files.
> 
> Before I change anything I see, let's say, difficulties:
> 
> .) The changes are not by list (as possible for the listinfo page, for
> example) but by server.
> .) I want to rearrange the sections: the unsubscribe section should be
> first to make it easy to leave the list (to be more compliant to the
> General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) in Europe). For me, sending a
> one-click link (with the password included) is not compliant as this is
> a data security issue.
> For this rearranging I need to change options.py as well.
> .) With every update I do I need to redo the changes described before.
> 
> Especially the German page needs to be changed. Translation is wrong. I
> think some text from another page found its way to this page. For that I
> will get in contact with the one who is dealing the the German
> translation anyway.
> 
> Do you see a possibility to work around the difficulties I described above?


The ideal way to accomplish what you want is to modify the loginpage()
function in options.py to build the page from a template as is done for
many other pages. That way, you could make list and language specific
versions of the template.

I have no plan to do this for the source distribution, but I would
consider a merge proposal
<https://code.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 20 14:25:10 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:25:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch against mm2.1 which adds sync_members
 functionality to the GUI
In-Reply-To: <20190820084311.3zmzt6moj7w75wfm@charite.de>
References: <20190820084311.3zmzt6moj7w75wfm@charite.de>
Message-ID: <2a052bea-8049-ab44-9ce0-fb5f68f900d8@msapiro.net>

On 8/20/19 1:43 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> attached are two patches against mm2.1 which add sync_members
> functionality to the GUI


I found some issues with this patch.

- Entries which are already members are reported as added.
- Entries with display names or mixed case addresses are not
  recognized as current members.

I have attached a modified patch which seems better but needs more testing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
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From rclemings at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 17:34:49 2019
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:34:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go in
templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)

I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it before
we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g. sending
a copy just to myself?

I couldn't find anything on this point in the archives.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 20 17:44:33 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:44:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization
In-Reply-To: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9a3ef20b-6035-30b0-3c17-983cba9d67aa@msapiro.net>

On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
> I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go in
> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
> 
> I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it before
> we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
> monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g. sending
> a copy just to myself?

Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's

cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME

with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From rclemings at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 17:53:47 2019
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:53:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization
In-Reply-To: <9a3ef20b-6035-30b0-3c17-983cba9d67aa@msapiro.net>
References: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a3ef20b-6035-30b0-3c17-983cba9d67aa@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0ajYThLCE50q3d07XzNcJRc-B44vmr5AT92R=wdfxaOdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, worked perfectly (and a good thing, because there were in fact some
garbles).

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
> > I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go
> in
> > templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
> >
> > I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it before
> > we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
> > monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g.
> sending
> > a copy just to myself?
>
> Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
> sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
> reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's
>
> cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME
>
> with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com
>


-- 
===============================================
Russell Clemings
<russell at clemings.com>
===============================================

From rclemings at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 18:06:07 2019
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 15:06:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization
In-Reply-To: <CAN7RX0ajYThLCE50q3d07XzNcJRc-B44vmr5AT92R=wdfxaOdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a3ef20b-6035-30b0-3c17-983cba9d67aa@msapiro.net>
 <CAN7RX0ajYThLCE50q3d07XzNcJRc-B44vmr5AT92R=wdfxaOdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0YECe3qE9XvRLvUH3XT18EVMZu1XdrYCCGt9ZN_BLqi9A@mail.gmail.com>

OK, so I also want to remove the passwords themselves from the monthly
reminder (we're running all of our lists through Drupal and don't want
people logging into the Mailman interface anyway).

Is this (from 2008) still the best way to do that? I gather that it will
need to be a patch that is reinstalled with every Mailman update but I've
already got another one of those so no big deal.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063158.html



On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:53 PM Russell Clemings <rclemings at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks, worked perfectly (and a good thing, because there were in fact
> some garbles).
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
>> > I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go
>> in
>> > templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
>> >
>> > I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it
>> before
>> > we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
>> > monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g.
>> sending
>> > a copy just to myself?
>>
>> Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
>> sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
>> reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
>> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's
>>
>> cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME
>>
>> with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> Russell Clemings
> <russell at clemings.com>
> ===============================================
>


-- 
===============================================
Russell Clemings
<russell at clemings.com>
===============================================

From rclemings at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 19:14:22 2019
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:14:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization
In-Reply-To: <CAN7RX0YECe3qE9XvRLvUH3XT18EVMZu1XdrYCCGt9ZN_BLqi9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a3ef20b-6035-30b0-3c17-983cba9d67aa@msapiro.net>
 <CAN7RX0ajYThLCE50q3d07XzNcJRc-B44vmr5AT92R=wdfxaOdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN7RX0YECe3qE9XvRLvUH3XT18EVMZu1XdrYCCGt9ZN_BLqi9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0Z_CS7s2ciUTf=x-bveKk4wF1kga1tUvBPG2WCaFQksaw@mail.gmail.com>

This appears to do what I want -- removes everything except the names of
the list subscriptions:

diff --git a/mailpasswds b/mailpasswds
index f194dc6..5f91f34 100644
--- a/mailpasswds
+++ b/mailpasswds
@@ -151,19 +151,8 @@ def main():
                     continue
                 # Group by the lower-cased address, since Mailman always
                 # treates person at dom.ain the same as PERSON at dom.ain.
-                try:
-                    password = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
-                except Errors.NotAMemberError:
-                    # Here's a member with no passwords, which I think was
-                    # possible in older versions of Mailman.  Log this and
-                    # move on.
-                    syslog('error', 'password-less member %s for list %s',
-                           member, mlist.internal_name())
-                    continue
-
-
-                optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
-
+                password = ''
+                optionsurl = ''
                 lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
                 info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
                 userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
@@ -221,8 +210,7 @@ def main():
                 i18n.set_language(poplang)
                 # Craft table header after language was set
                 header = '%-40s %-10s\n%-40s %-10s' % (
-                         _('List'), _('Password // URL'), '----',
'--------')
-
+                         _('Your subscriptions'), _(''), '----', ' ')
                 header = tounicode(header, enc)
                 # Add the table to the end so it doesn't get wrapped/filled
                 text += (header + '\n' + NL.join(table))

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:06 PM Russell Clemings <rclemings at gmail.com>
wrote:

> OK, so I also want to remove the passwords themselves from the monthly
> reminder (we're running all of our lists through Drupal and don't want
> people logging into the Mailman interface anyway).
>
> Is this (from 2008) still the best way to do that? I gather that it will
> need to be a patch that is reinstalled with every Mailman update but I've
> already got another one of those so no big deal.
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063158.html
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:53 PM Russell Clemings <rclemings at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, worked perfectly (and a good thing, because there were in fact
>> some garbles).
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
>>> > I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to
>>> go in
>>> > templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
>>> >
>>> > I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it
>>> before
>>> > we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
>>> > monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g.
>>> sending
>>> > a copy just to myself?
>>>
>>> Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
>>> sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
>>> reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
>>> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's
>>>
>>> cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME
>>>
>>> with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>>> Searchable Archives:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> Russell Clemings
>> <russell at clemings.com>
>> ===============================================
>>
>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> Russell Clemings
> <russell at clemings.com>
> ===============================================
>


-- 
===============================================
Russell Clemings
<russell at clemings.com>
===============================================

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 20 19:55:08 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:55:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization
In-Reply-To: <CAN7RX0Z_CS7s2ciUTf=x-bveKk4wF1kga1tUvBPG2WCaFQksaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7RX0bGZHE6EX+TxivNMwnhjd8M8Xjz+3_HZBhSfHNSo3X9rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a3ef20b-6035-30b0-3c17-983cba9d67aa@msapiro.net>
 <CAN7RX0ajYThLCE50q3d07XzNcJRc-B44vmr5AT92R=wdfxaOdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN7RX0YECe3qE9XvRLvUH3XT18EVMZu1XdrYCCGt9ZN_BLqi9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN7RX0Z_CS7s2ciUTf=x-bveKk4wF1kga1tUvBPG2WCaFQksaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c4e3bff-f48c-b98d-16f8-4d880391fc27@msapiro.net>

On 8/20/19 4:14 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
> This appears to do what I want -- removes everything except the names of
> the list subscriptions:
> 
> diff --git a/mailpasswds b/mailpasswds
> index f194dc6..5f91f34 100644
> --- a/mailpasswds
> +++ b/mailpasswds
> @@ -151,19 +151,8 @@ def main():
>                      continue
>                  # Group by the lower-cased address, since Mailman always
>                  # treates person at dom.ain the same as PERSON at dom.ain.
> -                try:
> -                    password = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
> -                except Errors.NotAMemberError:
> -                    # Here's a member with no passwords, which I think was
> -                    # possible in older versions of Mailman.  Log this and
> -                    # move on.
> -                    syslog('error', 'password-less member %s for list %s',
> -                           member, mlist.internal_name())
> -                    continue
> -
> -
> -                optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
> -
> +                password = ''
> +                optionsurl = ''
>                  lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
>                  info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
>                  userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
> @@ -221,8 +210,7 @@ def main():
>                  i18n.set_language(poplang)
>                  # Craft table header after language was set
>                  header = '%-40s %-10s\n%-40s %-10s' % (
> -                         _('List'), _('Password // URL'), '----', '--------')
> -
> +                         _('Your subscriptions'), _(''), '----', ' ')
>                  header = tounicode(header, enc)
>                  # Add the table to the end so it doesn't get wrapped/filled
>                  text += (header + '\n' + NL.join(table))


There are multiple ways to do this, but the above is as good as any.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Aug 24 08:59:31 2019
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
Message-ID: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for private 
archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                             

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 24 11:46:50 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 08:46:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>

On 8/24/19 5:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for private 
> archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.


See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030514>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Aug 24 16:15:17 2019
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 16:15:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com> 
 <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20190824201518.21F0926C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 08:46:50 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> 
> On 8/24/19 5:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for private 
> > archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.
> 
> 
> See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030514>.

OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl is 
missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
(local file name, not the proper mailman URL).

> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                 

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Aug 24 16:15:17 2019
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 16:15:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com> 
 <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20190824201517.D459626C0135@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 08:46:50 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> 
> On 8/24/19 5:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for private 
> > archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.
> 
> 
> See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030514>.

It is not clear if any of the options on that page will work for *private* 
archives.  Most seem to be using an *external* third party search engine.  I'm 
guessing I need to write a script (*I* don't know phthon and don't really like 
PHP) to do the searching and indexing on my server.

> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                      

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 24 17:20:42 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <20190824201518.21F0926C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
 <20190824201518.21F0926C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <4737b8a1-98eb-f1cc-9831-a79f20a67c3a@msapiro.net>

On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl is 
> missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
> get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
> (local file name, not the proper mailman URL).


I can't answer directly, but see
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558138>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 24 17:42:58 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:42:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <20190824201517.D459626C0135@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
 <20190824201517.D459626C0135@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5183dabe-4a04-6172-bb23-1d6dd79fd31c@msapiro.net>

On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> It is not clear if any of the options on that page will work for *private* 
> archives.  Most seem to be using an *external* third party search engine.  I'm 
> guessing I need to write a script (*I* don't know phthon and don't really like 
> PHP) to do the searching and indexing on my server.


Ther HtDig branch at <https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/htdig>
definitely works with private archives. I use it.

If you don't want to install that branch which is based on 2.1.29+,
there is a 2.1.16 version of Richard Barrett's htdig and indexing
patches on which this is based at
<https://www.msapiro.net/mm/index_htdig.patch.2.1.16>. Also see
<https://www.msapiro.net/mm/_README>

You can get htdig at
<http://htdig.sourceforge.net/files/htdig-3.2.0b6.tar.gz>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Aug 24 18:07:55 2019
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:07:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <4737b8a1-98eb-f1cc-9831-a79f20a67c3a@msapiro.net>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com> 
 <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net> 
 <20190824201518.21F0926C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com> 
 <4737b8a1-98eb-f1cc-9831-a79f20a67c3a@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20190824220755.0C21026C0135@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:42 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> 
> On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > 
> > OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl is 
> > missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
> > get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
> > (local file name, not the proper mailman URL).
> 
> 
> I can't answer directly, but see
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558138>.
> 

I figured out how to hack the Namazu code to incldue a "replacement" function 
and passed it on to the re-index function.  I think that will work.  (Perl is 
almost as bad as APL -- the only thing about Perl is that it uses "normal" 
ASCII, but still is pretty much write-only code, like APL.)


-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                          

From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Sat Aug 24 18:14:02 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 17:14:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
Message-ID: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>

Earlier this month I email this list with issues I've had approving/discard
messages via the web interface (see below).

After digging around I've found that I maybe experiencing some kind if
config corruption in pck files under /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman  When
looking through the smtp-failure log I noticed errors "Sender address
rejected: Domain not found" and it appears something has or is appending
the text "new-" to the beginning of the domain we use.  Further
investigation shows that "new-" is appended to the domain in the
config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety files.  I have no idea how
this got into the files but it appears to me the source of problem.  I have
reviewed the configuration of mailman via the administrative web interface
and it all appears correct (no arbitrary "new-" text) .  This is not a new
installation of mailman and has been in use for many years.  This issue
seemed to have started occurring in July of this year.  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.

Bill Richards

mailman version 2.1.12

Previous message:
=====================================================

A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list but
messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some file
has become corrupted or a permissions issue.

I also see entries such as the following in the errors logs:

Aug 04 06:47:41 2019 (20501) No such list "aewa<[55":
Aug 04 11:05:13 2019 (28708) No such list "aewa<https:":

I have run check_perms with no problems found.

Has anyone see this before or can suggest a solution?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 24 18:31:21 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 15:31:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>

On 8/24/19 3:14 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> 
> After digging around I've found that I maybe experiencing some kind if
> config corruption in pck files under /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman  When
> looking through the smtp-failure log I noticed errors "Sender address
> rejected: Domain not found" and it appears something has or is appending
> the text "new-" to the beginning of the domain we use.  Further
> investigation shows that "new-" is appended to the domain in the
> config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety files.


What attributes have these things? Do Mailman's `bin/dumpdb` on the
config.pck files.

On the other hand, this may be the General Options -> host_name
attribute of the list. If so, just fix it.

Once we know what attributes are affected, we can say more.

> Previous message:
> =====================================================
> 
> A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list but
> messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some file
> has become corrupted or a permissions issue.


Is this still an issue?  As I've said previously, see
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Sat Aug 24 20:33:47 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 19:33:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>

The domain is correct from the web page General Options -> host_name
attribute of the list

The dumpdb against config.pck shows a lot of list members email addresses,
"accept_non_members", "ban_list", etc.  It is very long (2413 lines).  What
specifically am I looking for to get the attributes?

Bill

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 5:32 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 8/24/19 3:14 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> >
> > After digging around I've found that I maybe experiencing some kind if
> > config corruption in pck files under /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman  When
> > looking through the smtp-failure log I noticed errors "Sender address
> > rejected: Domain not found" and it appears something has or is appending
> > the text "new-" to the beginning of the domain we use.  Further
> > investigation shows that "new-" is appended to the domain in the
> > config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety files.
>
>
> What attributes have these things? Do Mailman's `bin/dumpdb` on the
> config.pck files.
>
> On the other hand, this may be the General Options -> host_name
> attribute of the list. If so, just fix it.
>
> Once we know what attributes are affected, we can say more.
>
> > Previous message:
> > =====================================================
> >
> > A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
> > discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list
> but
> > messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some
> file
> > has become corrupted or a permissions issue.
>
>
> Is this still an issue?  As I've said previously, see
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wildbill.richards%40gmail.com
>

From mark at mailmanlists.net  Sat Aug 24 21:00:45 2019
From: mark at mailmanlists.net (Mark Dale)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:00:45 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private*
 archives?
In-Reply-To: <20190824220755.0C21026C0135@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <20190824125931.8FD2C26C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <166da38d-fd7c-b983-0fa9-35f96fcc4647@msapiro.net>
 <20190824201518.21F0926C0119@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <4737b8a1-98eb-f1cc-9831-a79f20a67c3a@msapiro.net>
 <20190824220755.0C21026C0135@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20766d84-426c-39a8-2016-099259b9894f@mailmanlists.net>


Hi,

It sounds like you now have it sorted with Namazu, but for what it's
worth there is an excellent guide to install Namazu "out of the box" on
Mailman 2.1.* at:

	http://bakacsin.ki.iif.hu/~kissg/project/mailman+namazu/

And no issues with Private archives or incorrect URLs.

/Mark


On 25/8/19 8:07 am, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:42 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl is 
>>> missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
>>> get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
>>> (local file name, not the proper mailman URL).
>>
>>
>> I can't answer directly, but see
>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558138>.
>>
> 
> I figured out how to hack the Namazu code to incldue a "replacement" function 
> and passed it on to the re-index function.  I think that will work.  (Perl is 
> almost as bad as APL -- the only thing about Perl is that it uses "normal" 
> ASCII, but still is pretty much write-only code, like APL.)
> 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 24 21:27:35 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:27:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>

On 8/24/19 5:33 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> The domain is correct from the web page General Options -> host_name
> attribute of the list
> 
> The dumpdb against config.pck shows a lot of list members email addresses,
> "accept_non_members", "ban_list", etc.  It is very long (2413 lines).  What
> specifically am I looking for to get the attributes?


All occurrences where "new-" is appended to the domain you use.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Sun Aug 25 13:40:14 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:40:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CACRzxktuD_WQNTun93t9S0H2k-FtnCySYC4gxJqfeDsZLZ=fRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mark

Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
when using

find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"

it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 8:28 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 8/24/19 5:33 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> > The domain is correct from the web page General Options -> host_name
> > attribute of the list
> >
> > The dumpdb against config.pck shows a lot of list members email
> addresses,
> > "accept_non_members", "ban_list", etc.  It is very long (2413 lines).
> What
> > specifically am I looking for to get the attributes?
>
>
> All occurrences where "new-" is appended to the domain you use.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wildbill.richards%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 25 18:44:05 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 15:44:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxktuD_WQNTun93t9S0H2k-FtnCySYC4gxJqfeDsZLZ=fRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxktuD_WQNTun93t9S0H2k-FtnCySYC4gxJqfeDsZLZ=fRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d49334ce-9714-b6e0-31a8-e22cbea0bcc0@msapiro.net>

On 8/25/19 10:40 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> Mark
> 
> Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
> when using
> 
> find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"
> 
> it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety


I'm not sure why you are looking in /home since based on an off list
message, your actual Mailman files are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/.

In any case, if grep finds an instance of "new-" in some config.pck, the
output of mailman's bin/dumpdb of that file should also contain "new-".

But none of this seems relevant to your issues.

For the smtp-failure log "Sender address
rejected: Domain not found" errors, what are the messages in the MTA
logs correlated with this.

For the problems with approving and/or
discarding messages and unable to add/delete users to the list issues,
have you looked at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602> and did it help? Is
this still an issue?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Sun Aug 25 22:29:04 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 21:29:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <d49334ce-9714-b6e0-31a8-e22cbea0bcc0@msapiro.net>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxktuD_WQNTun93t9S0H2k-FtnCySYC4gxJqfeDsZLZ=fRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <d49334ce-9714-b6e0-31a8-e22cbea0bcc0@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CACRzxkt456+eOdjDVR65XhzLe2G03Z7L2xuxxS+03kLedJvtPw@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, It wasn't  actually home I just cut and pasted the wrong line from
.bash_history.  I searched multiple directories but found the matches under
/var/lib/mailman

I'll check the maillogs in the morning.

re: the link, yes I recently converted the web site to https so I'll review
that link in the AM and see if that is it.

Thanks for the help

Bill

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 5:45 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 8/25/19 10:40 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> > Mark
> >
> > Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
> > when using
> >
> > find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"
> >
> > it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety
>
>
> I'm not sure why you are looking in /home since based on an off list
> message, your actual Mailman files are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/.
>
> In any case, if grep finds an instance of "new-" in some config.pck, the
> output of mailman's bin/dumpdb of that file should also contain "new-".
>
> But none of this seems relevant to your issues.
>
> For the smtp-failure log "Sender address
> rejected: Domain not found" errors, what are the messages in the MTA
> logs correlated with this.
>
> For the problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages and unable to add/delete users to the list issues,
> have you looked at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602> and did it help? Is
> this still an issue?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wildbill.richards%40gmail.com
>

From wildbill.richards at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 12:59:27 2019
From: wildbill.richards at gmail.com (Bill Richards)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:59:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <d49334ce-9714-b6e0-31a8-e22cbea0bcc0@msapiro.net>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxktuD_WQNTun93t9S0H2k-FtnCySYC4gxJqfeDsZLZ=fRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <d49334ce-9714-b6e0-31a8-e22cbea0bcc0@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CACRzxkvrxLmogS9o760DXpQepSyuzP3C+MzvnFiRnnJNJWRDcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mark

I read the wiki and have inserted the "RedirectPermanent" statement in the
httpd.conf file and restarted apache.  Then I ran
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa" and the following
results came back:

Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.fix_url()...
Loading list aewa (locked)
Saving list
Finalizing

After that I tried to approve/discard some pending requests and received a
odd response when the next html page was not found:  "
http://aewa.c.agile-being-124522.internal/mailman/admindb/aewa"
Which to me looks like some sort of header I've seen in emails.  Apparently
the  "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa"  command  has
scrambled most of the web page archives.  I was able to find and fix it in
the config.pck file but some of the other admin pages still have url's with
the "aewa.c.agile-being" etc. in them.  Plus the archives are no longer
accessible.

Right now I am stumped.

Bill

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 5:45 PM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 8/25/19 10:40 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> > Mark
> >
> > Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
> > when using
> >
> > find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"
> >
> > it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety
>
>
> I'm not sure why you are looking in /home since based on an off list
> message, your actual Mailman files are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/.
>
> In any case, if grep finds an instance of "new-" in some config.pck, the
> output of mailman's bin/dumpdb of that file should also contain "new-".
>
> But none of this seems relevant to your issues.
>
> For the smtp-failure log "Sender address
> rejected: Domain not found" errors, what are the messages in the MTA
> logs correlated with this.
>
> For the problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages and unable to add/delete users to the list issues,
> have you looked at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602> and did it help? Is
> this still an issue?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wildbill.richards%40gmail.com
>

From List.Server.Admin at unh.edu  Mon Aug 26 18:28:10 2019
From: List.Server.Admin at unh.edu (The Mailing List Server Admin)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging mass invitations using web page
 interface...
In-Reply-To: <ed51d221-256e-6a21-428a-6cbe716632ef@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1608261957001.21863@conundrum.unh.edu>
 <ed51d221-256e-6a21-428a-6cbe716632ef@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1908261817290.30474@conundrum.unh.edu>

Way way back in August 2016, we had a problem with submitting too
many members via the web interface.  As a solution, the following
was suggested:

> You'd need a custom script to do the 'extra text'. I have added an
> invite_members script I use at 
> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/invite_members> and
> <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/invite_members> This can send
> invitations including the 'extra text'.

We used this script with great success in Aug 2017 and 2018.  But
this year we've run into a problem.  When I submit the script it
appears to hang waiting for some kind of lock.  I can see this
when I eventually CTRL-C out.

     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "/home/mladmin/Util/invite_members", line 236, in ?
         main()
       File "/home/mladmin/Util/invite_members", line 197, in main
         mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)
       File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 129, in
       __init__
         self.Lock()
       File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 162, in
       Lock
         self.__lock.lock(timeout)
       File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 312, in
       lock
         self.__sleep()
       File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 496, in
       __sleep
         time.sleep(interval)
     KeyboardInterrupt

In the past we've used the script from a non-priv'd account with
no problems.  When it failed this time, I tried running it as
'mailman' but it still hangs on the lock.  Any suggestions?
(BTW, the line numbers will be different from the original script
because of some debug print statements and additional comments
added.)

-- 
                                   Cordially,
                                   the UNH Mailing List Server Admins
                                   Bill Costa, Adjunct Admin
                                   (603) 862-3056

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 26 21:16:09 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:16:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <CACRzxkvrxLmogS9o760DXpQepSyuzP3C+MzvnFiRnnJNJWRDcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACRzxku_KRV9aRB7vEGWvXfEw6nAx5SBTcwQ5dZoqN7KGFzfmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d3046ef8-bce4-fea7-0ed5-71d919be8f1d@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkuBc-Kq7t2Jr0Z=o6xfhDiqRtBM0FQ4DWKYWeoBwJ6Q4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e4249ed9-ad75-6f24-201e-547318e2d14e@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxktuD_WQNTun93t9S0H2k-FtnCySYC4gxJqfeDsZLZ=fRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <d49334ce-9714-b6e0-31a8-e22cbea0bcc0@msapiro.net>
 <CACRzxkvrxLmogS9o760DXpQepSyuzP3C+MzvnFiRnnJNJWRDcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a733c6c6-3727-c0c6-6adb-5e512ce64db2@msapiro.net>

On 8/26/19 9:59 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> Mark
> 
> I read the wiki and have inserted the "RedirectPermanent" statement in the
> httpd.conf file and restarted apache.  Then I ran
> "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa" and the following
> results came back:
> 
> Importing fix_url...
> Running fix_url.fix_url()...
> Loading list aewa (locked)
> Saving list
> Finalizing
> 
> After that I tried to approve/discard some pending requests and received a
> odd response when the next html page was not found:  "
> http://aewa.c.agile-being-124522.internal/mailman/admindb/aewa"
> Which to me looks like some sort of header I've seen in emails.  Apparently
> the  "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa"  command  has
> scrambled most of the web page archives.  I was able to find and fix it in
> the config.pck file but some of the other admin pages still have url's with
> the "aewa.c.agile-being" etc. in them.  Plus the archives are no longer
> accessible.


I can access the pipermail archive for your list with no problem

What is in Mailman's Mailman/Defaults.py and Mailman/mm_cfg.py for the
settings

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
DEFAULT_URL_HOST
and all add_virtualhost() lines?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 26 21:39:22 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:39:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debugging mass invitations using web page
 interface...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1908261817290.30474@conundrum.unh.edu>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.03.1608261957001.21863@conundrum.unh.edu>
 <ed51d221-256e-6a21-428a-6cbe716632ef@msapiro.net>
 <alpine.LRH.2.03.1908261817290.30474@conundrum.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <109489e4-a9ec-cebc-4404-2edb711adad7@msapiro.net>

On 8/26/19 3:28 PM, The Mailing List Server Admin wrote:
> Way way back in August 2016, we had a problem with submitting too
> many members via the web interface.? As a solution, the following
> was suggested:
> 
>> You'd need a custom script to do the 'extra text'. I have added an
>> invite_members script I use at
>> <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/invite_members> and
>> <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/invite_members> This can send
>> invitations including the 'extra text'.
> 
> We used this script with great success in Aug 2017 and 2018.? But
> this year we've run into a problem.? When I submit the script it
> appears to hang waiting for some kind of lock.? I can see this
> when I eventually CTRL-C out.
> 
> ??? Traceback (most recent call last):
> ????? File "/home/mladmin/Util/invite_members", line 236, in ?
> ??????? main()
> ????? File "/home/mladmin/Util/invite_members", line 197, in main
> ??????? mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)
> ????? File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 129, in
> ????? __init__
> ??????? self.Lock()
> ????? File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 162, in
> ????? Lock
> ??????? self.__lock.lock(timeout)
> ????? File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 312, in
> ????? lock
> ??????? self.__sleep()
> ????? File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 496, in
> ????? __sleep
> ??????? time.sleep(interval)
> ??? KeyboardInterrupt


The list is locked. See <https://wiki.list.org/x/17891756> for more
about locks and removing stale locks.

I have looked at the script and I see an issue. It can leave the list
locked if you specify a message file and that file cannot be read.

I have updated the script to fix this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan