From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sat Jun  1 11:53:43 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:53:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about email automation
In-Reply-To: <2b62d760-6b83-5175-a1af-3b82338d7a76@gjb-online.com>
References: <2b62d760-6b83-5175-a1af-3b82338d7a76@gjb-online.com>
Message-ID: <23794.40839.319546.242890@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Fabian A. Santiago writes:

 > i run a mailing list on mm 2.x. periodically i send out an event
 > opening email to the list. this is typically followed by a
 > conclusion email at the end of a specific period. in the interim
 > period i would like to send out reminders of the event to the list
 > but would like to automate this task.  i want the reminders to be
 > triggered by my opening email and end with my conclusion email.

Mailman 2 depends on cron for periodic activity.  How to set up a cron
job depends on your system.  I'd guess the 'ifttt' and 'zapier'
utilities depend on cron as well, but I've never heard of them before.

Even if the scripting described below sounds painful, perhaps a
description of the process will help make sense of the utilities you
mentioned.

There are two basic ways to do this, one of which involves Mailman
itself, and one which does not.  The one that does not involves
creating a script, which you attach to a specific mailbox (this is MTA
specific).  Then you send the announcement mail to that mailbox, which
invokes the script.  The script places the reminder message in a
specific place (formatted as a reply to the announcement message), and
sends the announcement mail to the list address.  Then the cron job
triggers periodically, and sends out any messages that are in the
specific place (this is MTA specific, but "sendmail -t < message"
works on most systems).  You also send the conclusion email to that
place, as a reply to the announcement message.  The script parses out
the In-Reply-To message-id, scans the specific place for messages that
are replies to that message-id, and deletes them.  Then it sends the
conclusion email to the list address.

The other is basically the same, except that you send the announcement
and conclusion mails to the list address, marked as one of your
announcements in some way.  Basically the same code as above, with the
addition of first checking if the message is an announcement or a
conclusion (if not, it does nothing), is added to Mailman as a
Handler.  (This can be done globally, or in a list-specific way.)

Perhaps one of the utilities you mentioned can provide the script or
even much of the MTA and cron interfacing.

The scripting itself can be pretty simple, or it could be medium
complex, depending on how customized the reminder message should be
for a given announcement, and how free-form the announcements are.  In
the simplest case, the reminder message is just the original
announcement message with the Message-ID copied to the In-Reply-To
field and the Message-ID field deleted (either Mailman or the MTA will
add one).

Steve


From chip at aresti.com  Sat Jun  1 13:44:49 2019
From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 13:44:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easy question for this crowd
In-Reply-To: <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
References: <6b8120bb-fe79-2082-0f83-195376fff789@aresti.com>
 <20190530230320.489A026C001A@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <263b32d3-5a6a-9120-7fdd-5504e05513c9@aresti.com>
 <ac937f0b-b3c9-abfb-c62e-8ed07f0b00bd@msapiro.net>
 <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
Message-ID: <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>

<sigh> I guess my question wasn't so "easy" after all ... :-(

What was a daily trickle is now a flood of UCE from different domains 
in the .icu TLD.  I hope someone can suggest some sort of prophylaxis 
that I haven't tried.

Is it possible that 'general_nonmember_action = Hold' is overriding my 
Spam Filter Rule?  I still need to intercept legitimate subscribers 
who attempt to post under a different address, depending on which 
device they happen to be using.  :-/

Is there any way to tell Mailman to honor my ISP's SpamAssassin score?
The headers of a UCE that got though and was Held for Approval may be 
seen at http://www.aresti.com/UCEheaders/

=======================================================================================
dmarc_moderation_action = Munge From
dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes
dmarc_none_moderation_action = No
  -
accept_these_nonmembers = [list if specific userids]
hold_these_nonmembers = []
reject_these_nonmembers = []
discard_these_nonmembers = []
generic_nonmember_action = Hold
forward_auto_discards = Yes
  -
header_filter_rules = Spam Filter Rule 1: ^from: .*@.*\.icu\s
                       Action = Discard
=======================================================================================

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

-Chip-

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  1 15:38:06 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 12:38:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easy question for this crowd
In-Reply-To: <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
References: <6b8120bb-fe79-2082-0f83-195376fff789@aresti.com>
 <20190530230320.489A026C001A@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <263b32d3-5a6a-9120-7fdd-5504e05513c9@aresti.com>
 <ac937f0b-b3c9-abfb-c62e-8ed07f0b00bd@msapiro.net>
 <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
 <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
Message-ID: <a4478bba-dadc-6c4d-0d56-5efb1b25a93a@msapiro.net>

On 6/1/19 10:44 AM, Chip Davis wrote:
> 
> Is it possible that 'general_nonmember_action = Hold' is overriding my
> Spam Filter Rule?? I still need to intercept legitimate subscribers who
> attempt to post under a different address, depending on which device
> they happen to be using.? :-/


You need to adjust the regexp. It isn't matching because of the '>' at
the end of the address in From:

Try

^from: .*@.*\.icu[>\s]


> Is there any way to tell Mailman to honor my ISP's SpamAssassin score?

You can use header filter regexps like

^X-Spam-Status: Yes

or

^X-Spam-Bar: \+{6,}

where the 6 above is the minimum number of '+' characters to match.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From phils at caerllewys.net  Sat Jun  1 15:42:07 2019
From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 15:42:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easy question for this crowd
In-Reply-To: <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
References: <6b8120bb-fe79-2082-0f83-195376fff789@aresti.com>
 <20190530230320.489A026C001A@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <263b32d3-5a6a-9120-7fdd-5504e05513c9@aresti.com>
 <ac937f0b-b3c9-abfb-c62e-8ed07f0b00bd@msapiro.net>
 <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
 <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
Message-ID: <735c201e-38da-5d8c-799d-6aa263917842@caerllewys.net>

On 6/1/19 1:44 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
> <sigh> I guess my question wasn't so "easy" after all ... :-(
> 
> What was a daily trickle is now a flood of UCE from different domains 
> in the .icu TLD.  I hope someone can suggest some sort of prophylaxis 
> that I haven't tried.

Do you get any actual, legitimate mail from .icu?  Do you have any real
subscribers from .icu?  If not, I'd consider just blocking the entire
TLD.  I've blocked several of the new shit TLDs from which I was
receiving nothing but spam, and it's enormously reduced my volume of spam.


-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  phils at caerllewys.net
  phil at co.ordinate.org
  Landline: +1.603.293.8485
  Mobile:   +1.603.998.6958

From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net  Sat Jun  1 12:57:34 2019
From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:57:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about email automation
In-Reply-To: <2b62d760-6b83-5175-a1af-3b82338d7a76@gjb-online.com>
References: <2b62d760-6b83-5175-a1af-3b82338d7a76@gjb-online.com>
Message-ID: <bebd8bb7-8617-fd92-3b4e-432cb480ca20@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 5/30/19 8:04 AM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote:
> Hello,

Hi,

> i run a mailing list on mm 2.x. periodically i send out an event 
> opening email to the list. this is typically followed by a conclusion 
> email at the end of a specific period.

How specific is the period?  Is the end known at the start, i.e. 3 
months, or is it dependent on when a project completes?

> in the interim period i would like to send out reminders of the event 
> to the list but would like to automate this task.  i want the reminders 
> to be triggered by my opening email and end with my conclusion email.

I don't know if it really matters, but please clarify if you're talking 
about one list that multiple events are discussed on or if it's a 
different list per event.

> has anyone done this and how?

I have not.

I think one list for multiple events would be simpler from an automation 
point of view.  I say this because I'd subscribe a utility account that 
would receive copies of all messages and be able to parse them for 
specific keywords (event <bla> starts <date>, etc.).

I would likely have this script set up (Unix) at jobs (vs cron) as I 
think programmatically scheduling them might be easier.  The at job can 
send the emails (typical script sending email) at the specified times.

If the duration of the project is known ahead of time, you can 
pre-schedule multiple at jobs and be done with it.

If the duration of the project is not known ahead of time, I think you 
will need to have each reminder iteration schedule the next at job.  You 
will also need to have the utility account be a bit smarter and look for 
the end of job / event / project announcements.  -  In this case, I'd 
likely enhance the at job to look for a (flag) file or contents to 
determine if it should send the reminder or not.  That way, you can 
finish a job / even / project and make sure that there's not 
accidentally spurious reminders that get sent or worry about cleaning 
them up by simply removing the (flag) file or changing it's contents.

I know that it's crude.  But it will get the job done.

> i've looked at ifttt and zapier but wasn't sure. thanks.

I'm not familiar with them.  Sorry.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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From chip at aresti.com  Sun Jun  2 10:49:53 2019
From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:49:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easy question for this crowd
In-Reply-To: <735c201e-38da-5d8c-799d-6aa263917842@caerllewys.net>
References: <6b8120bb-fe79-2082-0f83-195376fff789@aresti.com>
 <20190530230320.489A026C001A@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <263b32d3-5a6a-9120-7fdd-5504e05513c9@aresti.com>
 <ac937f0b-b3c9-abfb-c62e-8ed07f0b00bd@msapiro.net>
 <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
 <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
 <735c201e-38da-5d8c-799d-6aa263917842@caerllewys.net>
Message-ID: <bf2558af-46dd-a8d8-3176-8be256e2aa97@aresti.com>

No, and No.  Apparently you missed my original post (5/30 11:57AM) on 
this topic where I asked if my RE that would do exactly that.

> I've supported a dozen Mailman listservers for over a dozen years. This doesn't represent much real effort most of the time.  I've had to block specific users often and specific domains rarely, but this is the first time I've had to block an entire TLD.
> 
> Recently I've been gifted with an inordinate amount of UCE from many different domains under the '.icu' TLD.
> 
> Since Python RE's are _almost_ the same as the UNIX RE's I used many years ago, if I put
> 
> ^@.*\.icu$
> 
> in discard_these_nonmembers, will it block all domains in that TLD?
> 
> And not block anyone else?

Thanks to Mark's help crafting the proper RE, I haven't had an '.icu' 
UCE in over 15 hours (knock wood).

For a more general solution for all of my lists, I'm looking into his 
suggestion of using a Spam Filter that triggers on the SpamAssassin 
score header inserted by my ISP.

Thanks, Mark for you patience and help.

-Chip-

On 6/1/2019 3:42 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> On 6/1/19 1:44 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
>> <sigh> I guess my question wasn't so "easy" after all ... :-(
>>
>> What was a daily trickle is now a flood of UCE from different domains
>> in the .icu TLD.  I hope someone can suggest some sort of prophylaxis
>> that I haven't tried.
> 
> Do you get any actual, legitimate mail from .icu?  Do you have any real
> subscribers from .icu?  If not, I'd consider just blocking the entire
> TLD.  I've blocked several of the new shit TLDs from which I was
> receiving nothing but spam, and it's enormously reduced my volume of spam.
> 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jun  2 11:17:56 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:17:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easy question for this crowd
In-Reply-To: <bf2558af-46dd-a8d8-3176-8be256e2aa97@aresti.com>
References: <6b8120bb-fe79-2082-0f83-195376fff789@aresti.com>
 <20190530230320.489A026C001A@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <263b32d3-5a6a-9120-7fdd-5504e05513c9@aresti.com>
 <ac937f0b-b3c9-abfb-c62e-8ed07f0b00bd@msapiro.net>
 <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
 <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
 <735c201e-38da-5d8c-799d-6aa263917842@caerllewys.net>
 <bf2558af-46dd-a8d8-3176-8be256e2aa97@aresti.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b29d3-381c-71f7-bb40-21b334d54940@msapiro.net>

On 6/2/19 7:49 AM, Chip Davis wrote:
> 
> Thanks to Mark's help crafting the proper RE, I haven't had an '.icu'
> UCE in over 15 hours (knock wood).


If you have access to Mailman's logs, the discards are logged in the
'vette' log with entries like

Message discarded, msgid: <...>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From chip at aresti.com  Sun Jun  2 11:44:23 2019
From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 11:44:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easy question for this crowd
In-Reply-To: <fa1b29d3-381c-71f7-bb40-21b334d54940@msapiro.net>
References: <6b8120bb-fe79-2082-0f83-195376fff789@aresti.com>
 <20190530230320.489A026C001A@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
 <263b32d3-5a6a-9120-7fdd-5504e05513c9@aresti.com>
 <ac937f0b-b3c9-abfb-c62e-8ed07f0b00bd@msapiro.net>
 <00162b2d-d080-716f-a8f2-3f0bf81d90e6@aresti.com>
 <f33f1736-348f-f665-20ac-250497f6a408@aresti.com>
 <735c201e-38da-5d8c-799d-6aa263917842@caerllewys.net>
 <bf2558af-46dd-a8d8-3176-8be256e2aa97@aresti.com>
 <fa1b29d3-381c-71f7-bb40-21b334d54940@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <e911f453-5215-3610-d232-d858885b0597@aresti.com>

<sigh> I wish.  All my listservers are on various shared hosts running 
cPanel.  An experience not unlike making love in haz-mat suits... :-/

-Chip-

On 6/2/2019 11:17 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 6/2/19 7:49 AM, Chip Davis wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to Mark's help crafting the proper RE, I haven't had an '.icu'
>> UCE in over 15 hours (knock wood).
> 
> 
> If you have access to Mailman's logs, the discards are logged in the
> 'vette' log with entries like
> 
> Message discarded, msgid: <...>
> 

From rmcclung at afilias.info  Mon Jun  3 10:41:42 2019
From: rmcclung at afilias.info (Ryan McClung)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 10:41:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrated Mailman to another server
In-Reply-To: <20190531122319.6dd8b126@dave-900X1B>
References: <CAH=cwAPAfgkDkWM5iB_0tpDKTs-UjNBH5E5acKR234SPys2aoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH=cwANfDhS5-CCqNdgzedhCT8JkLQ6oPOiCvimi+w8r_c9_cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20190531122319.6dd8b126@dave-900X1B>
Message-ID: <CAH=cwAPWUeVJ-V3C3Dr-s=HWoqThDrBs++XwBGWXjuRini0bxQ@mail.gmail.com>

One of the teams working on the migration project with me did not do the
DNS switchover. It wasn't a mailman problem -- it was a PEBCAK :)

On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 4:49 PM Dave Stevens <geek at uniserve.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 31 May 2019 14:34:19 -0400
> Ryan McClung <rmcclung at afilias.info> wrote:
>
> > I figured it out.
>
> what was the fix?
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rmcclung%40afilias.info
>


-- 

Ryan McClung
Systems Administrator @ Afilias Canada
A.  204-4141 Yonge Street, Toronto, ON, Canada, M2P 2A8
<https://maps.google.com/?q=4141+Yonge+Street,+Toronto,+ON,+Canada,+M2P+2A8&entry=gmail&source=g>
W. www.afilias.info
T.  +1.416.646.3304 x4186

From paul at vandervlis.nl  Tue Jun  4 06:30:17 2019
From: paul at vandervlis.nl (Paul van der Vlis)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:30:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable
Message-ID: <qd5h7p$48v1$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Hello,

In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
and the list-owner gets messages about it.

How can I remove this message, or all messages (it's the only one what
waits on moderation).

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis


-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  4 16:05:32 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:05:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable
In-Reply-To: <qd5h7p$48v1$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <qd5h7p$48v1$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20c7e619-4339-f545-6eea-030c5c381c91@msapiro.net>

On 6/4/19 3:30 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> 
> In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
> max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
> to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
> and the list-owner gets messages about it.


How did you try to accept the message, and what happened?

How are you trying to remove the message, and what happens?

Is there anything relevant in Mailman's error log?


> How can I remove this message, or all messages (it's the only one what
> waits on moderation).


The moderator requests are in the file lists/LISTNAME/request.pck and
the held message itself is in the file data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck.
Both lists/ and data/ are in Mailman's file hierarchy.

There is a script at <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests>
(mirrored at <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_requests>)
which can list and optionally remove requests. It may work.

If you are sure the one held message is the only moderator request for
this list, you can just remove the lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file, and
Mailman will recreate it when needed. If you do that, you should also
remove the data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck file containing the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mkawada at redhat.com  Tue Jun  4 19:55:30 2019
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 08:55:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
Message-ID: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

Are there any ways to have a bounce mail transferred to a specific user(
ex:test at domain.com) instead of the mail sender?

I haven't been able to find any ways within Mailman configuration, but I
just wonder if we can make it by using any method of postfix side.

The "man postfix" says:
=====
-notify_classes (resource, software)

              The list of error classes that are reported to the postmaster.

-2bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)

              The recipient of undeliverable mail that cannot be returned
to the sender.

-bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)

              The recipient of postmaster notifications with the message
headers of mail that Postfix did not deliver and of SMTP conversation
transcripts of mail that Postfix did not receive.
=====

So it looks like a bounce mail can be transferred as a copy to a specific
user besides postmaster this way.

notify_classes = resource, software, bounce  <---Add 'bounce' to the
parameter here.

2bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com   <---Specify the email address
where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com    <---Specify the email address
where you want a bounce mail to be returned.

The scenario is as follows:
1.A sender sends an email to a mailing list.
2.The mailing list has a user that does not exist anymore.
3.A bounce mail is set to return to the sender.
4.The bounce mail is sent to one specific user besides the sender.

Is this the right way? If I am missing anything to make it work, I would
like you to point me to the right way.

Sincerely,
Masaharu Kawada

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jun  4 20:37:42 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 17:37:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>

On 6/4/19 4:55 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> 
> Are there any ways to have a bounce mail transferred to a specific user(
> ex:test at domain.com) instead of the mail sender?
> 
> I haven't been able to find any ways within Mailman configuration, but I
> just wonder if we can make it by using any method of postfix side.


Yes, you do it in Postfix with aliases.

> The "man postfix" says:
> =====
> -notify_classes (resource, software)
> 
>               The list of error classes that are reported to the postmaster.
> 
> -2bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
> 
>               The recipient of undeliverable mail that cannot be returned
> to the sender.
> 
> -bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
> 
>               The recipient of postmaster notifications with the message
> headers of mail that Postfix did not deliver and of SMTP conversation
> transcripts of mail that Postfix did not receive.
> =====
> 
> So it looks like a bounce mail can be transferred as a copy to a specific
> user besides postmaster this way.
> 
> notify_classes = resource, software, bounce  <---Add 'bounce' to the
> parameter here.
> 
> 2bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com   <---Specify the email address
> where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
> bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com    <---Specify the email address
> where you want a bounce mail to be returned.


You don't want this because even if you can make it work, it will affect
all bounced mail.


> The scenario is as follows:
> 1.A sender sends an email to a mailing list.
> 2.The mailing list has a user that does not exist anymore.
> 3.A bounce mail is set to return to the sender.
> 4.The bounce mail is sent to one specific user besides the sender.
> 
> Is this the right way? If I am missing anything to make it work, I would
> like you to point me to the right way.


There are things you can do. First of all bounces are returned to the
listname-bounces address to enable automatic bounce processing to
disable delivery and ultimately remove bouncing users. What are you
trying to accomplish by sending them also to another address?

If all you want to do is see them, beginning in Mailman 2.1.19, there is
a bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment setting in bounce processing
to send them to the list owner. See
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1382150>.

If this isn't satisfactory, you can look at your Mailman aliases for
Postfix which are probably in Mailman's data/aliases and data/aliases.db
files. what you need to do is make a second set, say alias_overrides and
alias_overrides.db.

In aliases you will see the entire set of list aliases for all lists. In
particular, for the list of interest there will be a line like

LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"

copy that one line exactly to alias_overrides and then add a second line
beginning with whitespace with the second address like:

    test at domain.com

Then run

postalias alias_overrides

to create alias_overrides.db and if necessary change tehe ownership of
alias_overrides.db to match that of Mailman's aliases.db and finally, add

hash:/path/to/alias_overrides

to Postfix alias_maps ahead of the entry for Mailman's aliases.

Do it this way because Mailman will periodically update its aliases, at
least if you are using Mailman's Postfix integration.

Note: this all assumes you are using aliases to deliver from Postfix to
Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mkawada at redhat.com  Tue Jun  4 22:31:20 2019
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:31:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mark-san,

I very much appreciate your answer and that was a big help.

I think the second method you gave me that using alias_overrides is the one
I need.

Thanks a million!

Masaharu Kawada


On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:38 AM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 6/4/19 4:55 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> >
> > Are there any ways to have a bounce mail transferred to a specific user(
> > ex:test at domain.com) instead of the mail sender?
> >
> > I haven't been able to find any ways within Mailman configuration, but I
> > just wonder if we can make it by using any method of postfix side.
>
>
> Yes, you do it in Postfix with aliases.
>
> > The "man postfix" says:
> > =====
> > -notify_classes (resource, software)
> >
> >               The list of error classes that are reported to the
> postmaster.
> >
> > -2bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
> >
> >               The recipient of undeliverable mail that cannot be returned
> > to the sender.
> >
> > -bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
> >
> >               The recipient of postmaster notifications with the message
> > headers of mail that Postfix did not deliver and of SMTP conversation
> > transcripts of mail that Postfix did not receive.
> > =====
> >
> > So it looks like a bounce mail can be transferred as a copy to a specific
> > user besides postmaster this way.
> >
> > notify_classes = resource, software, bounce  <---Add 'bounce' to the
> > parameter here.
> >
> > 2bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com   <---Specify the email
> address
> > where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
> > bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com    <---Specify the email
> address
> > where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
>
>
> You don't want this because even if you can make it work, it will affect
> all bounced mail.
>
>
> > The scenario is as follows:
> > 1.A sender sends an email to a mailing list.
> > 2.The mailing list has a user that does not exist anymore.
> > 3.A bounce mail is set to return to the sender.
> > 4.The bounce mail is sent to one specific user besides the sender.
> >
> > Is this the right way? If I am missing anything to make it work, I would
> > like you to point me to the right way.
>
>
> There are things you can do. First of all bounces are returned to the
> listname-bounces address to enable automatic bounce processing to
> disable delivery and ultimately remove bouncing users. What are you
> trying to accomplish by sending them also to another address?
>
> If all you want to do is see them, beginning in Mailman 2.1.19, there is
> a bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment setting in bounce processing
> to send them to the list owner. See
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1382150>.
>
> If this isn't satisfactory, you can look at your Mailman aliases for
> Postfix which are probably in Mailman's data/aliases and data/aliases.db
> files. what you need to do is make a second set, say alias_overrides and
> alias_overrides.db.
>
> In aliases you will see the entire set of list aliases for all lists. In
> particular, for the list of interest there will be a line like
>
> LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>
> copy that one line exactly to alias_overrides and then add a second line
> beginning with whitespace with the second address like:
>
>     test at domain.com
>
> Then run
>
> postalias alias_overrides
>
> to create alias_overrides.db and if necessary change tehe ownership of
> alias_overrides.db to match that of Mailman's aliases.db and finally, add
>
> hash:/path/to/alias_overrides
>
> to Postfix alias_maps ahead of the entry for Mailman's aliases.
>
> Do it this way because Mailman will periodically update its aliases, at
> least if you are using Mailman's Postfix integration.
>
> Note: this all assumes you are using aliases to deliver from Postfix to
> Mailman.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkawada%40redhat.com
>

From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Jun  5 03:43:48 2019
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 16:43:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAkrQwmgdYua=64mT4=Xi7zfuAXGKaiF7i3StXzQT99Bzx7E-A@mail.gmail.com>

Mark-san,

Very sorry to ask you directly.

One question about the format of the alias configuration in
'alias_overrides' you mensioned.

---
LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"

copy that one line exactly to alias_overrides and then add a second line
beginning with whitespace with the second address like:

    test at domain.com
---

About what you said above, do you mean it's supposed to be like below?

$ cat alias_overrides
---
ISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
 test at domain.com
---

I just went back and forth with testing on this, but no luck so far.  So I
just wanna know how the alias_overrides looks like.

Thanks,
Masaharu Kawada


On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 11:31 AM Masaharu Kawada <mkawada at redhat.com> wrote:

> Hello Mark-san,
>
> I very much appreciate your answer and that was a big help.
>
> I think the second method you gave me that using alias_overrides is the
> one I need.
>
> Thanks a million!
>
> Masaharu Kawada
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:38 AM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/19 4:55 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>> >
>> > Are there any ways to have a bounce mail transferred to a specific user(
>> > ex:test at domain.com) instead of the mail sender?
>> >
>> > I haven't been able to find any ways within Mailman configuration, but I
>> > just wonder if we can make it by using any method of postfix side.
>>
>>
>> Yes, you do it in Postfix with aliases.
>>
>> > The "man postfix" says:
>> > =====
>> > -notify_classes (resource, software)
>> >
>> >               The list of error classes that are reported to the
>> postmaster.
>> >
>> > -2bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
>> >
>> >               The recipient of undeliverable mail that cannot be
>> returned
>> > to the sender.
>> >
>> > -bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
>> >
>> >               The recipient of postmaster notifications with the message
>> > headers of mail that Postfix did not deliver and of SMTP conversation
>> > transcripts of mail that Postfix did not receive.
>> > =====
>> >
>> > So it looks like a bounce mail can be transferred as a copy to a
>> specific
>> > user besides postmaster this way.
>> >
>> > notify_classes = resource, software, bounce  <---Add 'bounce' to the
>> > parameter here.
>> >
>> > 2bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com   <---Specify the email
>> address
>> > where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
>> > bounce_notice_recipient = test at domain.com    <---Specify the email
>> address
>> > where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
>>
>>
>> You don't want this because even if you can make it work, it will affect
>> all bounced mail.
>>
>>
>> > The scenario is as follows:
>> > 1.A sender sends an email to a mailing list.
>> > 2.The mailing list has a user that does not exist anymore.
>> > 3.A bounce mail is set to return to the sender.
>> > 4.The bounce mail is sent to one specific user besides the sender.
>> >
>> > Is this the right way? If I am missing anything to make it work, I would
>> > like you to point me to the right way.
>>
>>
>> There are things you can do. First of all bounces are returned to the
>> listname-bounces address to enable automatic bounce processing to
>> disable delivery and ultimately remove bouncing users. What are you
>> trying to accomplish by sending them also to another address?
>>
>> If all you want to do is see them, beginning in Mailman 2.1.19, there is
>> a bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment setting in bounce processing
>> to send them to the list owner. See
>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1382150>.
>>
>> If this isn't satisfactory, you can look at your Mailman aliases for
>> Postfix which are probably in Mailman's data/aliases and data/aliases.db
>> files. what you need to do is make a second set, say alias_overrides and
>> alias_overrides.db.
>>
>> In aliases you will see the entire set of list aliases for all lists. In
>> particular, for the list of interest there will be a line like
>>
>> LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>>
>> copy that one line exactly to alias_overrides and then add a second line
>> beginning with whitespace with the second address like:
>>
>>     test at domain.com
>>
>> Then run
>>
>> postalias alias_overrides
>>
>> to create alias_overrides.db and if necessary change tehe ownership of
>> alias_overrides.db to match that of Mailman's aliases.db and finally, add
>>
>> hash:/path/to/alias_overrides
>>
>> to Postfix alias_maps ahead of the entry for Mailman's aliases.
>>
>> Do it this way because Mailman will periodically update its aliases, at
>> least if you are using Mailman's Postfix integration.
>>
>> Note: this all assumes you are using aliases to deliver from Postfix to
>> Mailman.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkawada%40redhat.com
>>
>
>
>

From paul at vandervlis.nl  Tue Jun  4 16:41:20 2019
From: paul at vandervlis.nl (Paul van der Vlis)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 22:41:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable
In-Reply-To: <20c7e619-4339-f545-6eea-030c5c381c91@msapiro.net>
References: <qd5h7p$48v1$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <20c7e619-4339-f545-6eea-030c5c381c91@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <qd6l1h$6911$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Op 04-06-19 om 22:05 schreef Mark Sapiro:
> On 6/4/19 3:30 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>
>> In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
>> max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
>> to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
>> and the list-owner gets messages about it.
> 
> 
> How did you try to accept the message, and what happened?

Using the webinterface. I did not see any error, but the message was not
send.

> How are you trying to remove the message, and what happens?

Using the webinterface. I did not see an error, but the message was not
removed.

> Is there anything relevant in Mailman's error log?

I did not see anything relevant.
Maybe it's possible to make it more verbose.

>> How can I remove this message, or all messages (it's the only one what
>> waits on moderation).
> 
> 
> The moderator requests are in the file lists/LISTNAME/request.pck and
> the held message itself is in the file data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck.
> Both lists/ and data/ are in Mailman's file hierarchy.
>
> There is a script at <https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests>
> (mirrored at <https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_requests>)
> which can list and optionally remove requests. It may work.
> 
> If you are sure the one held message is the only moderator request for
> this list, you can just remove the lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file, and
> Mailman will recreate it when needed. If you do that, you should also
> remove the data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck file containing the message.

This seems to work, the message is removed ;-)

Thanks for your help!


With regards,
Paul van der Vlis


-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  5 11:37:47 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 08:37:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable
In-Reply-To: <qd6l1h$6911$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <qd5h7p$48v1$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <20c7e619-4339-f545-6eea-030c5c381c91@msapiro.net>
 <qd6l1h$6911$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6f0cedb7-5cb1-1756-3fe6-4647f90aefbe@msapiro.net>

On 6/4/19 1:41 PM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> Op 04-06-19 om 22:05 schreef Mark Sapiro:
>> On 6/4/19 3:30 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>>
>>> In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
>>> max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
>>> to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
>>> and the list-owner gets messages about it.
>>
>>
>> How did you try to accept the message, and what happened?
> 
> Using the webinterface. I did not see any error, but the message was not
> send.
> 
>> How are you trying to remove the message, and what happens?
> 
> Using the webinterface. I did not see an error, but the message was not
> removed.
> 
>> Is there anything relevant in Mailman's error log?
> 
> I did not see anything relevant.
> Maybe it's possible to make it more verbose.


There's not really a way to increase logging.

Does this issue occur anytime there is a moderator request or only for
this one message? If it is only for this one, I don't know why that
would happen silently, but if it is always, see
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  5 11:45:54 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 08:45:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <CAAkrQwmgdYua=64mT4=Xi7zfuAXGKaiF7i3StXzQT99Bzx7E-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAkrQwmgdYua=64mT4=Xi7zfuAXGKaiF7i3StXzQT99Bzx7E-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <95e5ae4d-1ac2-7fab-0f20-21d9cd2e8eba@msapiro.net>

On 6/5/19 12:43 AM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> 
> About what you said above, do you mean it's supposed to be like below?
> 
> $ cat alias_overrides
> ---
> ISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>  test at domain.com
> ---


No. the first line should be copied from the existing aliases.

'LISTNAME' and 'ISTNAME' (sic) are replaced with the actual list name
and '/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman' is replaced with the actual path.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed Jun  5 11:55:13 2019
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:55:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
Message-ID: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>

I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
address? Thanks.

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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  5 13:21:24 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 10:21:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
In-Reply-To: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
References: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>

On 6/5/19 8:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
> an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
> address? Thanks.


Why is the From: invalid? it is the site list -owner address and the
envelope is from the site list -bounces address. These should be
deliverable addresses. There is a potential issue with virtual domains
in that the domain of these addresses can be the virtual host domain and
the address may not be valid in that domain.

We currently add the site list address in each virtual domain in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the generated virtual-mailman file, but
we don't add the -owner and -bounces addresses. I'll fix that. See
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1831777>.

As far as changing these addresses is concerned, at lines 197-199 in the
script you'll see

            siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'owner')
            sitereq = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'request')
            sitebounce = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'bounces')

You could replace host in these lines with the literal host name which
is valid for the site list in quotes like 'example.com'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed Jun  5 14:11:14 2019
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 14:11:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
In-Reply-To: <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
References: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
 <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <7b071447-0ab4-ae62-a4b0-801532151786@bellsouth.net>

Hi Mark,

I am using U-Verse which means the domain and from address of my Linux
server are fake. I tried setting up translation in Postfix (generic) but
it does not seem to work for this particular address. I'll try your
suggestion. Thanks.

On 6/5/2019 1:21 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 6/5/19 8:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
>> an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
>> address? Thanks.
>
> Why is the From: invalid? it is the site list -owner address and the
> envelope is from the site list -bounces address. These should be
> deliverable addresses. There is a potential issue with virtual domains
> in that the domain of these addresses can be the virtual host domain and
> the address may not be valid in that domain.
>
> We currently add the site list address in each virtual domain in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the generated virtual-mailman file, but
> we don't add the -owner and -bounces addresses. I'll fix that. See
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1831777>.
>
> As far as changing these addresses is concerned, at lines 197-199 in the
> script you'll see
>
>             siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'owner')
>             sitereq = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'request')
>             sitebounce = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'bounces')
>
> You could replace host in these lines with the literal host name which
> is valid for the site list in quotes like 'example.com'.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dap1%40bellsouth.net

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From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed Jun  5 14:18:07 2019
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 14:18:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
In-Reply-To: <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
References: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
 <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <3ed79de5-e5c4-69b9-0afa-6ae6fa55ba2a@bellsouth.net>

Hi Mark,

After looking at this a bit I have a question. Are the strings 'owner',
'request' and 'bounces' appended to the list name?

list1-owner at domain
list1-request at domain
list1-bounces at domain

On 6/5/2019 1:21 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 6/5/19 8:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
>> an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
>> address? Thanks.
>
> Why is the From: invalid? it is the site list -owner address and the
> envelope is from the site list -bounces address. These should be
> deliverable addresses. There is a potential issue with virtual domains
> in that the domain of these addresses can be the virtual host domain and
> the address may not be valid in that domain.
>
> We currently add the site list address in each virtual domain in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the generated virtual-mailman file, but
> we don't add the -owner and -bounces addresses. I'll fix that. See
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1831777>.
>
> As far as changing these addresses is concerned, at lines 197-199 in the
> script you'll see
>
>             siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'owner')
>             sitereq = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'request')
>             sitebounce = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'bounces')
>
> You could replace host in these lines with the literal host name which
> is valid for the site list in quotes like 'example.com'.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dap1%40bellsouth.net

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From bryan at skiblack.com  Wed Jun  5 17:18:04 2019
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:18:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
Message-ID: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>

Hi folks,

I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 20MB, and I get an error on the held messages page trying to process it.  Currently we have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this limit or if there's some other fix.

--Bryan


--  Bryan Blackwell --
Linux Systems Engineer
bryan at skiblack.com




From heller at deepsoft.com  Wed Jun  5 17:59:56 2019
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Wed,  5 Jun 2019 17:59:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <20190605215956.124D126C0017@sharky3.deepsoft.com>

At Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:18:04 -0400 Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com> wrote:

> 
> Hi folks,
> 

> I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of
> our lists, and they can get large. One in particular runs over 20MB, and I
> get an error on the held messages page trying to process it. Currently we
> have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this
> limit or if there's some other fix.

I wonder if this is *mailman* or your MTA that is complaining...


> 
> --Bryan
> 
> 
> --  Bryan Blackwell --
> Linux Systems Engineer
> bryan at skiblack.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com
> 
>                                                                                                                            

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                                            

From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net  Wed Jun  5 19:34:17 2019
From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:34:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <c14aeba3-3a80-96a6-9d3e-f28c4ade77f8@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 6/5/19 3:18 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> Hi folks,

Hi,

> I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through 
> one of our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 
> 20MB, and I get an error on the held messages page trying to process it.

I'm guessing that you are aware of the Maximum length (max_message_size) 
setting on the General Options page.

Remember that Base64 attachments become 4/3s their size.  So a 20 MB 
file attachment becomes ~27 MB of Base64 encoded content.

Also remember that the MTA's maximum message size will add any headers 
and body content onto the size.  So I'm guessing you want to be able to 
support 30 MB email messages.  This should be easily doable.  Even if 
some people (myself included) don't like it.

> Currently we have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if 
> they address this limit or if there's some other fix.

I'm guessing that this is a Mailman and / or MTA configuration issue.

The fact that the message makes it into Mailman tells me that the MTA 
can handle the attachment.  I wonder if simply raising the Maximum 
length (max_message_size) might allow the message to pass normally.

I don't know what to think about the pending moderator requests / hold 
page's behavior.  I'll defer to other more knowledgeable people on the 
mailing list.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net  Wed Jun  5 19:35:20 2019
From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:35:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <20190605215956.124D126C0017@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
 <20190605215956.124D126C0017@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
Message-ID: <b33388ee-1401-c718-b3d6-fffeb1ea44ee@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 6/5/19 3:59 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> I wonder if this is *mailman* or your MTA that is complaining...

It might also be a webserver thing trying to react to the pending 
moderators request / hold screen (page).



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  5 20:13:07 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:13:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <e4beb615-b251-1043-74e9-e3b024cd5ec3@msapiro.net>

On 6/5/19 2:18 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> 
> I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 20MB, and I get an error on the held messages page trying to process it.  Currently we have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this limit or if there's some other fix.


Others have answered, but what exactly is the error?

And if it is the Mailman "we hit a bug" error, what's in Mailman's error
log?

Also as noted by Grant, you can set the web admin General Options ->
max_message_size to zero to avoid this check.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Jun  5 21:51:10 2019
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:51:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <95e5ae4d-1ac2-7fab-0f20-21d9cd2e8eba@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAkrQwmgdYua=64mT4=Xi7zfuAXGKaiF7i3StXzQT99Bzx7E-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <95e5ae4d-1ac2-7fab-0f20-21d9cd2e8eba@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAkrQw=F-hi5UZwzKv36EnVyB2RDvwJomuBOUc+GwPfP6C=Fsg@mail.gmail.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

>'LISTNAME' and 'ISTNAME' (sic) are replaced with the actual list name
>and '/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman' is replaced with the actual path.

I am sorry that the abov e 'ISTNAME' was supposed to be 'LISTNAME'. I
missed the first 'L' when I copied & pasted it.

In my case,  /etc/mailman/aliase is the default file path and then what I
need to do is going for the steps below, is this right?

1.Create /etc/mailman/alias_overrides as follows.

Note: The first line is copied from /etc/mailman/aliases and the second
line 'test at domain.com 'is additional.
---
LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
 test at domain.com
---

2.Create the alias_overrides.db

# postalias alias_overrides

3.Edit /etc/postfix/main.cf to add  the 'hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides'
into alias_maps and alias_database as follows.

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides

These are all I have done. Am I missing or having anything wrong?

Regards,
Masaharu Kawada


On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 12:46 AM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 6/5/19 12:43 AM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> >
> > About what you said above, do you mean it's supposed to be like below?
> >
> > $ cat alias_overrides
> > ---
> > ISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
> >  test at domain.com
> > ---
>
>
> No. the first line should be copied from the existing aliases.
>
> 'LISTNAME' and 'ISTNAME' (sic) are replaced with the actual list name
> and '/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman' is replaced with the actual path.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkawada%40redhat.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jun  5 22:15:03 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:15:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <CAAkrQw=F-hi5UZwzKv36EnVyB2RDvwJomuBOUc+GwPfP6C=Fsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAkrQwmgdYua=64mT4=Xi7zfuAXGKaiF7i3StXzQT99Bzx7E-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <95e5ae4d-1ac2-7fab-0f20-21d9cd2e8eba@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQw=F-hi5UZwzKv36EnVyB2RDvwJomuBOUc+GwPfP6C=Fsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <251c8692-b017-2007-2871-fdb85d672dfe@msapiro.net>

On 6/5/19 6:51 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> 
> In my case,  /etc/mailman/aliase is the default file path and then what I
> need to do is going for the steps below, is this right?
> 
> 1.Create /etc/mailman/alias_overrides as follows.
> 
> Note: The first line is copied from /etc/mailman/aliases and the second
> line 'test at domain.com 'is additional.
> ---
> LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>  test at domain.com
> ---
> 
> 2.Create the alias_overrides.db
> 
> # postalias alias_overrides
> 
> 3.Edit /etc/postfix/main.cf to add  the 'hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides'
> into alias_maps and alias_database as follows.
> 
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
> hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides


The overrides need to be ahead of the mailman aliases

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides,
hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Jun  5 22:38:25 2019
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 11:38:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer
In-Reply-To: <251c8692-b017-2007-2871-fdb85d672dfe@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAkrQwn7qF2UONgmmZPKviZke1pG2w_cvzrdwE9XPOt9_j=YFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <f96a6c50-5bae-209e-2c54-b1b4d813f803@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQwkrvCuGyAt0+mQqY-JjaScoScNzA=_xm8x+Lss6B+_6pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAkrQwmgdYua=64mT4=Xi7zfuAXGKaiF7i3StXzQT99Bzx7E-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <95e5ae4d-1ac2-7fab-0f20-21d9cd2e8eba@msapiro.net>
 <CAAkrQw=F-hi5UZwzKv36EnVyB2RDvwJomuBOUc+GwPfP6C=Fsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <251c8692-b017-2007-2871-fdb85d672dfe@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAkrQwmvVqrhaxPNYpA3kbPrixczP36Jp1JVvLALTN=Ht9kjgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

I have given a shot, but no luck. Maybe I have something wrong in what I
have done.
Anyway, I will do some more test myself and see how it goes.

I very much appreciate your help this time and very sorry to have asked you
this many...

Masaharu Kawada

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 11:15 AM Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 6/5/19 6:51 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> >
> > In my case,  /etc/mailman/aliase is the default file path and then what I
> > need to do is going for the steps below, is this right?
> >
> > 1.Create /etc/mailman/alias_overrides as follows.
> >
> > Note: The first line is copied from /etc/mailman/aliases and the second
> > line 'test at domain.com 'is additional.
> > ---
> > LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
> >  test at domain.com
> > ---
> >
> > 2.Create the alias_overrides.db
> >
> > # postalias alias_overrides
> >
> > 3.Edit /etc/postfix/main.cf to add  the
> 'hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides'
> > into alias_maps and alias_database as follows.
> >
> > alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
> > hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides
>
>
> The overrides need to be ahead of the mailman aliases
>
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides,
> hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkawada%40redhat.com
>

From jimpop at domainmail.org  Thu Jun  6 13:48:17 2019
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 13:48:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading mm 2.1.26 on Ubuntu 18.04 to 2.1.29
In-Reply-To: <fa070fdb-1d0f-58b4-3675-87b284a54ee6@msapiro.net>
References: <77292f2d-1694-46e9-8502-0842b35b349e@www.fastmail.com>
 <fa070fdb-1d0f-58b4-3675-87b284a54ee6@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1559843297.1970.3.camel@domainmail.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, 2019-05-22 at 08:42 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
+AD4 On 5/21/19 5:20 PM, Fabian Aldo Santiago wrote:
+AD4 +AD4 
+AD4 +AD4 So I started over (restored snapshot) and then tried adding a ppa apt source which contains 2.1.29:
+AD4 +AD4 
+AD4 +AD4 https://launchpad.net/+AH4-mailman-administrivia/+-archive/ubuntu/ppa
+AD4 +AD4 
+AD4 +AD4 Installed with an IO error over a lock file purported to be from one of my lists but otherwise started ok. But sending an email produced an error complaining:
+AD4 +AD4 
+AD4 +AD4 The mail system
+AD4 +AD4 
+AD4 +AD4 +ADw-list+AEA-localhost+AD4: Command died with status 2: +ACI-/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
+AD4 +AD4  post list+ACI. Command output: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the
+AD4 +AD4  mail wrapper script to be executed as group +ACI-daemon+ACI, but the system's mail
+AD4 +AD4  server executed the mail script as group +ACI-list+ACI. Try tweaking the mail
+AD4 +AD4  server to run the script as group +ACI-daemon+ACI, or re-run configure, providing
+AD4 +AD4  the command line option +AGA---with-mail-gid+AD0-list'.
+AD4 
+AD4 
+AD4 This is a group mismatch in the /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper.
+AD4 See +ADw-https://wiki.list.org/x/4030645+AD4 for more on group mismatch.
+AD4 
+AD4 This may be an issue with the ppa which is maintained by +AEA-jimpop who
+AD4 reads this list and may chime in.
+AD4 
+AD4 However, Postfix is running the wrapper as group 'list' because 'list'
+AD4 is the owner of Mailman's data/aliases.db file. You can change this by
+AD4 +AGA-chown daemon data/aliases.db+AGA but you need to ensure that that file is
+AD4 still group 'list' and group writable for Mailman to be able to update
+AD4 it as lists are added/deleted.


New PPAs were released a few hours ago that address this userid mis-
match problem.

- -Jim P.


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From jimpop at domainmail.org  Thu Jun  6 14:03:11 2019
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 14:03:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading mm 2.1.26 on Ubuntu 18.04 to 2.1.29
In-Reply-To: <26fc29a5-7e3b-bba7-317c-fda562e48377@gjb-online.com>
References: <77292f2d-1694-46e9-8502-0842b35b349e@www.fastmail.com>
 <fa070fdb-1d0f-58b4-3675-87b284a54ee6@msapiro.net>
 <26fc29a5-7e3b-bba7-317c-fda562e48377@gjb-online.com>
Message-ID: <1559844191.1970.6.camel@domainmail.org>

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On Thu, 2019-05-23 at 09:04 -0400, Fabian A. Santiago wrote:
+AD4 
+AD4 Thanks for this heads up. i should also mention adding the ppa to my apt
+AD4 sources fails on gpg signing key import. i had to do it manually,
+AD4 searching for the key on ubuntu's keyserver.

Can you provide some more details on this, please.  Was this possibly
due to you not being able to follow the default PPA instructions of
using +ACI-add-apt-repository+ACI? 

I just update the Mailman PPA to include this text above the area that
details how to add a PPA to an Ubuntu system.

   The details below are automatically provided by Launchpad and
   not edible by Mailman Administrators. One important bit that is
   missing below is that the command line program +ACI-add-apt-repository+ACI
   is available in the stock Ubuntu package +ACI-software-properties-common+ACI
   which may need to be installed on your system.

hth.

- -Jim P.
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From jimpop at domainmail.org  Thu Jun  6 14:21:16 2019
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 14:21:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading mm 2.1.26 on Ubuntu 18.04 to 2.1.29
In-Reply-To: <c29658e3-aced-e475-e583-14cbcf73bf4e@gjb-online.com>
References: <77292f2d-1694-46e9-8502-0842b35b349e@www.fastmail.com>
 <fa070fdb-1d0f-58b4-3675-87b284a54ee6@msapiro.net>
 <26fc29a5-7e3b-bba7-317c-fda562e48377@gjb-online.com>
 <c29658e3-aced-e475-e583-14cbcf73bf4e@gjb-online.com>
Message-ID: <1559845276.1970.9.camel@domainmail.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, 2019-05-23 at 09:40 -0400, Fabian A. Santiago wrote:
+AD4 also, that wiki page you sent me mention an error with missing dnspython
+AD4 and it states to run this:
+AD4 
+AD4 +ACI-sudo apt-get install python-dnspython+ACI
+AD4 
+AD4 but that claims it's already installed, yet the error occurs. what i
+AD4 found you want to install is the package +ACI-python-dev+ACI.
+AD4 

python-dev should only be necessary if you are building Mailman from
source.  If you are installing from PPA/apt/rpm/dpkg/etc you should only
need python-dnspython

- -Jim P.
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From bryan at skiblack.com  Thu Jun  6 19:58:44 2019
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 19:58:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <e4beb615-b251-1043-74e9-e3b024cd5ec3@msapiro.net>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
 <e4beb615-b251-1043-74e9-e3b024cd5ec3@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <F2CB452B-C09C-4140-8C98-680434DE2B37@skiblack.com>

On Jun 5, 2019, at 8:13 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net <mailto:mark at msapiro.net>> wrote:
> 
> On 6/5/19 2:18 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
>> 
>> I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 20MB, and I get an error on the held messages page trying to process it.  Currently we have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this limit or if there's some other fix.
> 
> 
> Others have answered, but what exactly is the error?
> 
> And if it is the Mailman "we hit a bug" error, what's in Mailman's error
> log?
> 
> Also as noted by Grant, you can set the web admin General Options ->
> max_message_size to zero to avoid this check.

Yep, I get the "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.20" error page.  This setup handles other attachments pretty well, just this particular person posts much larger files.  Below is the log entry, it looks like an out of memory condition.  Perhaps I need to tune python itself?  Thanks for any clues.

--Bryan

Jun 06 08:45:56 2019 admin(3662): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(3662): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.20 -----] 
admin(3662): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(3662): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(3662):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main
admin(3662):     main()
admin(3662):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 203, in main
admin(3662):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata)
admin(3662):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 810, in process_form
admin(3662):     forward, forwardaddr)
admin(3662):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 167, in HandleRequest
admin(3662):     forward, addr)
admin(3662):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 301, in __handlepost
admin(3662):     inq.enqueue(msg, _metadata=msgdata)
admin(3662):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 110, in enqueue
admin(3662):     msgsave = cPickle.dumps(_msg, protocol)
admin(3662): MemoryError: out of memory
admin(3662): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(3662): sys.version     =   2.7.10 (default, Sep 24 2015, 17:50:09) 
[GCC 5.1.1 20150618 (Red Hat 5.1.1-4)] 
admin(3662): sys.executable  =   /bin/python 
admin(3662): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
admin(3662): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
admin(3662): sys.path        =   ['/home/mailman/pythonlib', '/home/mailman', '/home/mailman/scripts', '/home/mailman', '/usr/lib64/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages'] 
admin(3662): sys.platform    =   linux2 
admin(3662): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/admindb/chapters <http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/admindb/chapters> 
admin(3662): 	CONTEXT_DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/ 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache 
admin(3662): 	CONTEXT_PREFIX: /mailman/ 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE:  
admin(3662): 	REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(3662): 	PATH_INFO: /chapters 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_ORIGIN: http://www.vv.corvair.org <http://www.vv.corvair.org/> 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(3662): 	QUERY_STRING:  
admin(3662): 	CONTENT_LENGTH: 168 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/74.0.3729.169 Safari/537.36 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_COOKIE: chapters+admin=280200000069ff0af95c732800000032643764353463336365326365633863323232393436343631383533386666373665396563336336; __utma=58530232.852040186.1559307710.1559307710.1559307710.1; __utmz=58530232.1559307710.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none) 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_NAME: www.vv.corvair.org <http://www.vv.corvair.org/> 
admin(3662): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 209.83.109.196 
admin(3662): 	PATH_TRANSLATED: /corsa/vv/chapters 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_PORT: 80 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.1.13 
admin(3662): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /corsa/vv 
admin(3662): 	PYTHONPATH: /home/mailman 
admin(3662): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb 
admin(3662): 	SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at tiger.skiblack.com <mailto:webmaster at tiger.skiblack.com> 
admin(3662): 	SCRIPT_URI: http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/admindb/chapters <http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/admindb/chapters> 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_HOST: www.vv.corvair.org <http://www.vv.corvair.org/> 
admin(3662): 	SCRIPT_URL: /mailman/admindb/chapters 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_UPGRADE_INSECURE_REQUESTS: 1 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: max-age=0 
admin(3662): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/chapters 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,image/webp,image/apng,*/*;q=0.8,application/signed-exchange;v=b3 
admin(3662): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR: 10.10.24.209 
admin(3662): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb 
admin(3662): 	REMOTE_PORT: 56644 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-US,en;q=0.9 
admin(3662): 	REQUEST_SCHEME: http 
admin(3662): 	CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
admin(3662): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Jun  6 20:08:12 2019
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 17:08:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <F2CB452B-C09C-4140-8C98-680434DE2B37@skiblack.com>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
 <e4beb615-b251-1043-74e9-e3b024cd5ec3@msapiro.net>
 <F2CB452B-C09C-4140-8C98-680434DE2B37@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <b73d06a9-7ae9-1744-d509-3de44f25a123@tuunq.com>

On 6/6/2019 4:58 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> This setup handles other attachments pretty well, just this particular
> person posts much larger files.  Below is the log entry, it looks like an
> out of memory condition.  Perhaps I need to tune python itself?
This really sounds like a "too many errors in line, make fewer" problem 
(tell the guy to send smaller attachments). I know if someone was sending 
20MB attachments on a list -I'm- on, we'd be having a polite discussion 
about it.

Later,

z!
who tends to set the max message size to maybe 40KB to discourage non-text 
traffic

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun  6 20:23:25 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 17:23:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size
In-Reply-To: <F2CB452B-C09C-4140-8C98-680434DE2B37@skiblack.com>
References: <ADF13865-C46B-4D83-BEAD-777D46D05A96@skiblack.com>
 <e4beb615-b251-1043-74e9-e3b024cd5ec3@msapiro.net>
 <F2CB452B-C09C-4140-8C98-680434DE2B37@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <7de4052d-4adc-f1db-48ba-7d85de0ba544@msapiro.net>

On 6/6/19 4:58 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> 
> Yep, I get the "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.20" error page.  This setup handles other attachments pretty well, just this particular person posts much larger files.  Below is the log entry, it looks like an out of memory condition.  Perhaps I need to tune python itself?  Thanks for any clues.


Yes, it is an out of memory condition, but it is not Python that needs
to be tuned. It is most likely at the web server or OS level.

But it seems that if you increase max_message_size or set it zero
(unlimited) the messages can be processed without being held.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Fri Jun  7 04:25:10 2019
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (mailman-admin)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 10:25:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
In-Reply-To: <3ed79de5-e5c4-69b9-0afa-6ae6fa55ba2a@bellsouth.net>
References: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
 <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
 <3ed79de5-e5c4-69b9-0afa-6ae6fa55ba2a@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <d41c64f1-4793-7cad-16f6-98b17cbd6226@uni-konstanz.de>

Am 05.06.19 um 20:18 schrieb Dennis Putnam:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> After looking at this a bit I have a question. Are the strings 'owner',
> 'request' and 'bounces' appended to the list name?
> 
> list1-owner at domain
> list1-request at domain
> list1-bounces at domain
> 

yes.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Fri Jun  7 07:49:12 2019
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 07:49:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
In-Reply-To: <d41c64f1-4793-7cad-16f6-98b17cbd6226@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
 <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
 <3ed79de5-e5c4-69b9-0afa-6ae6fa55ba2a@bellsouth.net>
 <d41c64f1-4793-7cad-16f6-98b17cbd6226@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <1146a6c0-bd37-2f58-0c86-ea9b8a8a3741@bellsouth.net>

Thanks. That is what I need to override. How do I do that?

On 6/7/2019 4:25 AM, mailman-admin wrote:
> Am 05.06.19 um 20:18 schrieb Dennis Putnam:
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> After looking at this a bit I have a question. Are the strings 'owner',
>> 'request' and 'bounces' appended to the list name?
>>
>> list1-owner at domain
>> list1-request at domain
>> list1-bounces at domain
>>
> yes.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Christian Mack
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dap1%40bellsouth.net
>


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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun  7 13:52:43 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 10:52:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'
In-Reply-To: <1146a6c0-bd37-2f58-0c86-ea9b8a8a3741@bellsouth.net>
References: <9f867333-f1ec-2257-df76-8c077a663348@bellsouth.net>
 <0a762bb8-0edb-0934-e45c-684ab8d42072@msapiro.net>
 <3ed79de5-e5c4-69b9-0afa-6ae6fa55ba2a@bellsouth.net>
 <d41c64f1-4793-7cad-16f6-98b17cbd6226@uni-konstanz.de>
 <1146a6c0-bd37-2f58-0c86-ea9b8a8a3741@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <7f0dce30-8c0c-bd2c-69eb-2affa1aa50ef@msapiro.net>

On 6/7/19 4:49 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> Thanks. That is what I need to override. How do I do that?
> 


To override the From: address, at lines 220.. in cron/mailpasswds you
will see

                msg = Message.UserNotification(
                    addr, siteowner,

change siteowner to the literal address you want in quotes as

                msg = Message.UserNotification(
                    addr, 'fromuser at example.com',

To override the envelope sender, at lines 235.. you will see

            msg.send(sitelist, **{'errorsto': sitebounce,
                                  '_nolist' : 1,
                                  'verp'    :
mm_cfg.VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS,
                                  })


('verp' line in this email is wrapped - don't change that)  Add a line
to set 'envsender' to the address you want as in

            msg.send(sitelist, **{'errorsto': sitebounce,
                                  'envsender': 'sender at example.com',
                                  '_nolist' : 1,
                                  'verp'    :
mm_cfg.VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS,
                                  })


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From paul at vandervlis.nl  Sat Jun  8 06:01:45 2019
From: paul at vandervlis.nl (Paul van der Vlis)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 12:01:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable
In-Reply-To: <6f0cedb7-5cb1-1756-3fe6-4647f90aefbe@msapiro.net>
References: <qd5h7p$48v1$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <20c7e619-4339-f545-6eea-030c5c381c91@msapiro.net>
 <qd6l1h$6911$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <6f0cedb7-5cb1-1756-3fe6-4647f90aefbe@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <qdg129$29v5$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Op 05-06-19 om 17:37 schreef Mark Sapiro:
> On 6/4/19 1:41 PM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>> Op 04-06-19 om 22:05 schreef Mark Sapiro:
>>> On 6/4/19 3:30 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
>>>> max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
>>>> to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
>>>> and the list-owner gets messages about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> How did you try to accept the message, and what happened?
>>
>> Using the webinterface. I did not see any error, but the message was not
>> send.
>>
>>> How are you trying to remove the message, and what happens?
>>
>> Using the webinterface. I did not see an error, but the message was not
>> removed.
>>
>>> Is there anything relevant in Mailman's error log?
>>
>> I did not see anything relevant.
>> Maybe it's possible to make it more verbose.
> 
> 
> There's not really a way to increase logging.
> 
> Does this issue occur anytime there is a moderator request or only for
> this one message? If it is only for this one, I don't know why that
> would happen silently, but if it is always, see
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602>.

It's not happen always. Maybe always when the message is to big.

But thanks for the link. I did change the site from http to https, and I
even changed everything from 32-bits to 64-bits a while ago.

With regards,
Paul




-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/


From ratatouille at nimmini.de  Sat Jun  8 06:29:14 2019
From: ratatouille at nimmini.de (ratatouille)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 12:29:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman-loop address
Message-ID: <20190608122914.79e89530@workstation.bitcorner.intern>

Hello!

Using mailman 2.1.17

Today I found this in the logfile:

Jun  1 05:16:16 bitmachine1 postfix/qmgr[4215]: 3070F181214: from=<mailman-loop at listen.bitcorner.de>, size=6027, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jun  1 05:16:16 bitmachine1 postfix/smtpd[3659]: proxy-accept: END-OF-MESSAGE: 250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 3070F181214; from=<mailman-loop at listen.bitcorner.de> to=<andreas at bitcorner.der> proto=ESMTP helo=<bitmachine1.bitcorner.de>
Jun  1 05:16:16 bitmachine1 postfix/lmtp[3687]: 599AE1811EF: to=<mailman-loop at listen.bitcorner.de>, relay=mail.bitcorner.de[private/dovecot-lmtp], delay=0.05, delays=0.02/0/0.03/0.01, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (host mail.bitcorner.de[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1 <mailman-loop at listen.bitcorner.de> User doesn't exist: mailman-loop at listen.bitcorner.de (in reply to RCPT TO command)

In /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases there is no alias like mailman-loop.

What's wrong here and how do I fix this?

Kind regards

  Andreas

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  8 11:13:24 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 08:13:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman-loop address
In-Reply-To: <20190608122914.79e89530@workstation.bitcorner.intern>
References: <20190608122914.79e89530@workstation.bitcorner.intern>
Message-ID: <5bba0799-568a-2457-2cd5-c6408ec6f813@msapiro.net>

On 6/8/19 3:29 AM, ratatouille wrote:
> 
> In /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases there is no alias like mailman-loop.
> 
> What's wrong here and how do I fix this?


There should be. If Mailman is generating this file, it should contain

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

Try running Mailman's bin/genaliases

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ratatouille at nimmini.de  Sat Jun  8 12:58:31 2019
From: ratatouille at nimmini.de (ratatouille)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 18:58:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman-loop address
In-Reply-To: <5bba0799-568a-2457-2cd5-c6408ec6f813@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20190608185831.5087d808@workstation.bitcorner.intern>

Hello!

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> schrieb am 08.06.19 um 08:13:24 Uhr:

> On 6/8/19 3:29 AM, ratatouille wrote:
> > 
> > In /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases there is no alias like mailman-loop.
> > 
> > What's wrong here and how do I fix this?  
> 
> 
> There should be. If Mailman is generating this file, it should contain
> 
> # The ultimate loop stopper address
> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> 
> Try running Mailman's bin/genaliases

I did this already, it is not there.

 # STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Sat Jun  8 11:43:23 2019
mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

  Andreas

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  8 16:38:54 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 13:38:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman-loop address
In-Reply-To: <20190608185831.5087d808@workstation.bitcorner.intern>
References: <20190608185831.5087d808@workstation.bitcorner.intern>
Message-ID: <668f0821-7c96-f38c-edd0-0b40faa0d6e4@msapiro.net>

On 6/8/19 9:58 AM, ratatouille wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> schrieb am 08.06.19 um 08:13:24 Uhr:
> 
>> On 6/8/19 3:29 AM, ratatouille wrote:
>>>
>>> In /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases there is no alias like mailman-loop.
>>>
>>> What's wrong here and how do I fix this?  
>>
>>
>> There should be. If Mailman is generating this file, it should contain
>>
>> # The ultimate loop stopper address
>> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
>>
>> Try running Mailman's bin/genaliases
> 
> I did this already, it is not there.
> 
>  # STANZA START: mailman
> # CREATED: Sat Jun  8 11:43:23 2019
> mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
> # STANZA END: mailman

It's not in that stanza. The beginning of the aliases file, even in
2.1.17 should be

> # This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
> # binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
> # unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
> # in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.
> 
> # The ultimate loop stopper address
> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox


If this is not the case, what Mailman package is this?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ratatouille at nimmini.de  Sat Jun  8 17:33:43 2019
From: ratatouille at nimmini.de (ratatouille)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 23:33:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw:  Problem with mailman-loop address
Message-ID: <20190608233344.15f315de@workstation.bitcorner.intern>



Beginn der weitergeleiteten Nachricht:

Datum: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 22:29:58 +0200
Von: ratatouille <ratatouille at nimmini.de>
An: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman-loop address


Hello!

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> schrieb am 08.06.19 um 13:06:49 Uhr:

> On 6/8/19 9:58 AM, ratatouille wrote:  
> > Hello!
> > 
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> schrieb am 08.06.19 um 08:13:24 Uhr:
> >     
> >> On 6/8/19 3:29 AM, ratatouille wrote:    
> >>>
> >>> In /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases there is no alias like mailman-loop.
> >>>
> >>> What's wrong here and how do I fix this?      
> >>
> >>
> >> There should be. If Mailman is generating this file, it should contain
> >>
> >> # The ultimate loop stopper address
> >> mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
> >>
> >> Try running Mailman's     
> > 
> > I did this already, it is not there.
> > 
> >  # STANZA START: mailman
> > # CREATED: Sat Jun  8 11:43:23 2019
> > mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> > mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> > mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> > mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> > mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> > mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> > mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> > mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> > mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> > mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
> > # STANZA END: mailman    
> 
> It's not in that stanza. The beginning of the aliases file, even in
> 2.1.17 should be
>   
> > # This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
> > # binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
> > # unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
> > # in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.
> > 
> > # The ultimate loop stopper address
> > mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox    
> 
> 
> If this is not the case, what Mailman package is this?  

Wow, now I see it. I was blind. Version 2.1.17. But I don't know now if it was there
before I did a  bin/genaliases today. Would this explain why I got the bounce within
postfix?

Ok, I just looked in a backup and there is was not there. Don't know why. Now
it's there. I'll see what happens.

Thank you!

  Andreas

From csa at web-analysts.net  Fri Jun 14 17:21:14 2019
From: csa at web-analysts.net (Christian Stalberg)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 14:21:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using hash for aliases. distribution email bounced
 back with errors
Message-ID: <024501d522f7$1923f0f0$4b6bd2d0$@web-analysts.net>

Installing mailman 2.1.20 on a working postfix-dovecot-mysql mail server.
Trying to use hash for Mailman aliases.

In /etc/postfix/main.cf, I have

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

I ran 'newlist mailman at command line.' This is the aliases file contents. 

# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the
# binary hash file aliases.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE
# unless you know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly
# in sync.  If you screw it up, you're on your own.

# The ultimate loop stopper address
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Fri Jun 14 13:09:26 2019
mailman:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

I ran bin/genaliases. I then subscribed some email addresses to the mailman
list and sent a test distribution email which was bounced back with errors
as follows:

This is the mail system at host naturalintelligence.us.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to
one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
    <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
    naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
    <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
    mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)

<post at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
    <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
    naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
    <post at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
    post at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)

<|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
    <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
    naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
    <|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't
exist:
    |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT
TO
    command)


that have I done wrong please? thank you in advance.

Christian


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 15 01:28:02 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 22:28:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using hash for aliases. distribution email
 bounced back with errors
In-Reply-To: <024501d522f7$1923f0f0$4b6bd2d0$@web-analysts.net>
References: <024501d522f7$1923f0f0$4b6bd2d0$@web-analysts.net>
Message-ID: <f4b56819-87f7-3b77-7828-aa07f1e947b5@msapiro.net>

On 6/14/19 2:21 PM, Christian Stalberg via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Installing mailman 2.1.20 on a working postfix-dovecot-mysql mail server.
> Trying to use hash for Mailman aliases.
> 
> In /etc/postfix/main.cf, I have
> 
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


Good.


> I ran 'newlist mailman at command line.' This is the aliases file contents. 
> 


snipped but looks good.


> I ran bin/genaliases.


Which wasn't necessary (yet) because creating the list did everything
that genaliases did.


 I then subscribed some email addresses to the mailman
> list and sent a test distribution email which was bounced back with errors
> as follows:
> 
> This is the mail system at host naturalintelligence.us.
> 
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to
> one or more recipients. It's attached below.
> 
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
> 
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
> text from the attached returned message.
> 
>                    The mail system
> 
> <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
>     mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)


Is lists.naturalintelligence.us in mydestination or is it a virtual domain?

If the latter, you need to put

POSTFIX_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.naturalintelligence.us']

in mm_cfg.py and run genaliases again and add

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

to Postfix.


> <post at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <post at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
>     post at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)
> 
> <|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't
> exist:
>     |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT
> TO
>     command)


The Dovecot LDA does not understand the aliases. You may have
lists.naturalintelligence.us defined as a virtual domain for Dovecot.
This won't work.

This is really a Postfix issue, but we will try to help further if you
post the output from `postconf -n`.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From csa at web-analysts.net  Sat Jun 15 10:01:14 2019
From: csa at web-analysts.net (Christian Stalberg)
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 07:01:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using hash for aliases. distribution email
 bounced back with errors
In-Reply-To: <f4b56819-87f7-3b77-7828-aa07f1e947b5@msapiro.net>
References: <024501d522f7$1923f0f0$4b6bd2d0$@web-analysts.net>
 <f4b56819-87f7-3b77-7828-aa07f1e947b5@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <011201d52382$cc2c8cd0$6485a670$@web-analysts.net>

I made those changes and attempted another distr test and most of the
previous errors went away but one (still no distribution), as follows:

This is the mail system at host naturalintelligence.us.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to
one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
    <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
    naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
    <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
    mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)


Below is output from postconf -n

# postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
disable_vrfy_command = yes
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = all
invalid_hostname_reject_code = 550
mailbox_size_limit = 40000000
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
maximal_backoff_time = 3h
milter_default_action = accept
milter_protocol = 6
minimal_backoff_time = 180s
mydestination = localhost, mahavira, mahavira.naturalintelligence.us,
localhost.naturalintelligence.us
mydomain = naturalintelligence.us
myhostname = naturalintelligence.us
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
myorigin = $mydomain
non_fqdn_reject_code = 550
non_smtpd_milters = local:opendkim/opendkim.sock
policyd-spf_time_limit = 3600
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = lists.naturalintelligence.us
relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
relayhost =
smtp_always_send_ehlo = yes
smtp_helo_timeout = 15s
smtp_rcpt_timeout = 15s
smtp_tls_security_level = may
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
smtpd_delay_reject = yes
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated,
reject_invalid_helo_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_helo_hostname
smtpd_milters = local:opendkim/opendkim.sock
smtpd_recipient_limit = 40
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated,
reject_non_fqdn_recipient, reject_unknown_recipient_domain,
reject_unlisted_recipient, reject_unauth_destination, check_policy_service
unix:private/policyd-spf
smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated,
defer_unauth_destination
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous, noplaintext
smtpd_sasl_tls_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated,
reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_unknown_sender_domain
smtpd_timeout = 30s
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file =
/etc/letsencrypt/live/naturalintelligence.us/fullchain.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file =
/etc/letsencrypt/live/naturalintelligence.us/privkey.pem
smtpd_tls_security_level = may
smtpd_use_tls = yes
strict_rfc821_envelopes = yes
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_address_reject_code = 550
unknown_client_reject_code = 550
unknown_hostname_reject_code = 550
unverified_recipient_reject_code = 550
unverified_sender_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_mailbox_domains =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-maps.cf
virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp
#

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+csa=web-analysts.net at python.org] On Behalf Of
Mark Sapiro
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 10:28 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] using hash for aliases. distribution email
bounced back with errors

On 6/14/19 2:21 PM, Christian Stalberg via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Installing mailman 2.1.20 on a working postfix-dovecot-mysql mail server.
> Trying to use hash for Mailman aliases.
> 
> In /etc/postfix/main.cf, I have
> 
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


Good.


> I ran 'newlist mailman at command line.' This is the aliases file
contents. 
> 


snipped but looks good.


> I ran bin/genaliases.


Which wasn't necessary (yet) because creating the list did everything
that genaliases did.


 I then subscribed some email addresses to the mailman
> list and sent a test distribution email which was bounced back with errors
> as follows:
> 
> This is the mail system at host naturalintelligence.us.
> 
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered
to
> one or more recipients. It's attached below.
> 
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
> 
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
> text from the attached returned message.
> 
>                    The mail system
> 
> <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
>     mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)


Is lists.naturalintelligence.us in mydestination or is it a virtual domain?

If the latter, you need to put

POSTFIX_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.naturalintelligence.us']

in mm_cfg.py and run genaliases again and add

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

to Postfix.


> <post at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <post at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
>     post at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)
> 
> <|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't
> exist:
>     |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to
RCPT
> TO
>     command)


The Dovecot LDA does not understand the aliases. You may have
lists.naturalintelligence.us defined as a virtual domain for Dovecot.
This won't work.

This is really a Postfix issue, but we will try to help further if you
post the output from `postconf -n`.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 15 10:27:00 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 07:27:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using hash for aliases. distribution email
 bounced back with errors
In-Reply-To: <011201d52382$cc2c8cd0$6485a670$@web-analysts.net>
References: <024501d522f7$1923f0f0$4b6bd2d0$@web-analysts.net>
 <f4b56819-87f7-3b77-7828-aa07f1e947b5@msapiro.net>
 <011201d52382$cc2c8cd0$6485a670$@web-analysts.net>
Message-ID: <a422f071-79e3-cce3-7fcb-4b98451062d2@msapiro.net>

On 6/15/19 7:01 AM, Christian Stalberg via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I made those changes and attempted another distr test and most of the
> previous errors went away but one (still no distribution), as follows:
...
> <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> (expanded from
>     <mailman at lists.naturalintelligence.us>): host
>     naturalintelligence.us[private/dovecot-lmtp] said: 550 5.1.1
>     <mailman at naturalintelligence.us> User doesn't exist:
>     mailman at naturalintelligence.us (in reply to RCPT TO command)
> 
> 
> Below is output from postconf -n
...

Try adding

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'localhost'

to mm_cfg.py and rerunning genaliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ahm at pixelloom.com  Mon Jun 17 01:01:39 2019
From: ahm at pixelloom.com (Nina Macdonald)
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:01:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] binary instead of html
In-Reply-To: <294A090F-A537-43B5-9565-CB08BB6C2E62@me.com>
References: <294A090F-A537-43B5-9565-CB08BB6C2E62@me.com>
Message-ID: <ca7c8f7f-e8a4-4f65-4bf8-f197c3bfcbf4@pixelloom.com>

I have one listserv subscriber, who is signed up for the regular (not 
digest) version.? He has been intermittently getting these odd versions 
of messages.? When he gets this format, he does not get the regular html 
version. Most of the messages come through just fine. I have a number of 
other ones he has sent me if you need to see them. I also have 9 other 
subscribers on me.com, whom I have not gotten complaints from.

Thanks,

Nina Macdonald



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Fwd: yet another
Date: 	Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:50:37 -0700
From: 	George Lang <georgelang3 at me.com>
To: 	webmaster at unihills.org



And no normal from Lisa Crummet


Begin forwarded message:

> *From:* uhills-bounces at unihills.org <mailto:uhills-bounces at unihills.org>
> *Date:* June 16, 2019 at 13:40:06 PDT
> *To:* uhills at unihills.org <mailto:uhills at unihills.org>
>
> Content analysis details: ??(-2.1 points, 3.0 required)
> ?pts rule name ?????????????description
> ---- ---------------------- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> -1.9 BAYES_00 ??????????????BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
> ????????????????????????????[score: 0.0000]
> ?0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM ?????????Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail
> ????????????????????????????provider (lisacrummett[at]gmail.com 
> <http://gmail.com>)
> -0.0 SPF_PASS ??????????????SPF: sender matches SPF record
> -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU ?????????Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
> ????????????????????????????author's domain
> -0.1 DKIM_VALID ????????????Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK 
> signature
> -0.1 DKIM_VALID_EF ?????????Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
> ????????????????????????????envelope-from domain
> ?0.1 DKIM_SIGNED ???????????Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not 
> necessarily
> ????????????????????????????valid
> X-Spam-Flag: NO
> Subject: [Uhills] Free toys at 79 Murasaki
> X-BeenThere: uhills at unihills.org <mailto:uhills at unihills.org>
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: UHills Community Announcements and Posts by Residents
> <uhills.unihills.org <http://uhills.unihills.org>>
> List-Unsubscribe: 
> <https://unihills.org/mailman/options/uhills_unihills.org>,
> <mailto:uhills-request at unihills.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <https://unihills.org/mailman/private/uhills_unihills.org/>
> List-Post: <mailto:uhills at unihills.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:uhills-request at unihills.org?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: 
> <https://unihills.org/mailman/listinfo/uhills_unihills.org>,
> <mailto:uhills-request at unihills.org?subject=subscribe>
> From: Lisa Crummett via Uhills <uhills at unihills.org 
> <mailto:uhills at unihills.org>>
> Reply-To: Lisa Crummett <lisacrummett at gmail.com 
> <mailto:lisacrummett at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Errors-To: uhills-bounces at unihills.org 
> <mailto:uhills-bounces at unihills.org>
> Sender: "Uhills" <uhills-bounces at unihills.org 
> <mailto:uhills-bounces at unihills.org>>
> X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4
> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it 
> with any abuse report
> X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host3.pixelloom.net 
> <http://host3.pixelloom.net>
> X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - me.com <http://me.com>
> X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
> X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - unihills.org <http://unihills.org>
> X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host3.pixelloom.net 
> <http://host3.pixelloom.net>: acl_c_authenticated_local_user: 
> mailman/mailman
> X-Authenticated-Sender: host3.pixelloom.net 
> <http://host3.pixelloom.net>: mailman at unihills.org 
> <mailto:mailman at unihills.org>
> X-MANTSH: 1TEIXR1kbG1oaGkNHB1tfTFwbGhsbGxMaGxEKTEMXGxoEGxsYBBsbGgQeGRAbHho
> fGhEKTFkXGBsbEQpZTRdkRURPEQpZSRcacRoQGncGGxMbcRscGhAbdwYYGgYaEQpZXhdobnkRC
> kNOF0ZLGW1aSxtDUxNwcwFOY0Bucl9vQ0tQa3tbaxh7Wmt/EQpYXBcZBBoEHhoHTBtPSRISGEg
> FGxoEEwQbEgQYGhoQGx4aHxoRCl5ZF396bxlhEQpNXBcbHRoRCkxaF2xtXU1SEQpMRhdFa2sRC
> kNaFx0YBB8YBBsfHAQbEhIRCkJeFxsRCkRYFx0RCkJGF2diQxJHSH9NfGVkEQpCRxduW3ofT2R
> 6UhlEZREKQkUXZWJzW2NNbXtoXRgRCkJOF2Jma0doUGR+YHlOEQpCTBdlRWQaaF9QfGJ9cBEKQ
> mwXYm9lfRp4bnhTek4RCkJAF25EXl1+Gh9MGmQcEQpNXhcbEQpwZxdlU0RYHWJzW1xSTRAZGhE
> KcGgXZB5wYHsaTx9JHG4QGRoRCnBoF3p9c2NgbE5TZxJMEBkaEQpwaBdmQHBdbkZTWFodRBAZG
> hEKcGgXbF9BbWNSfR9gGWsQGRoRCnB/F2sea0xcQE9eG0dCEB4SEQpwXxdjSW9sUmAecxp/ZxA
> eEhEKcH0XYEhDHxgbZ3tNT1oQHhIRCnB/F2RrSUtQGnlOXFNoEAcbGx0RCnBfF2ZuYGJwRBtnT
> 2RNEB4SEQpwfRdlHhJeekhOAUNucxAeEhEKcGwXemYaWhITG39zZgEQGRoRCnBDF2J+SEtBfkU
> eeGltEBkaEQptfhcbEQpYTRdLEQ==
> X-CLX-Shades: None
> X-CLX-UShades: None
> X-CLX-Score: 211
> X-CLX-UnSpecialScore: None
> X-CLX-Spam: false
> X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:,, 
> definitions=2019-06-16_09:,,
> signatures=0
> X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 
> suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0
> phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=211 mlxscore=0
> mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx
> scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1812120000 definitions=main-1906160198
>
> V2UganVzdCBjbGVhbmVkIG91dCBteSBkYXVnaHRlcuKAmXMgcm9vbSBhbmQgd2UgaGF2ZSBsb3Rz
> IG9mIGdvb2QgdG95cyB0byBnaXZlIGF3YXkuLi4gc3R1ZmZlZCBhbmltYWxzIHRoYXQgYXJlIGxp
> a2UgbmV3LCBNeSBMaXR0bGUgUG9ueSBmaWd1cmVzIGFuZCBhY2Nlc3NvcmllcyAobGFyZ2UgYW5k
> IHNtYWxsKSwgYW5kIHRpbnkgcHJpbmNlc3MgZmlndXJlcyB3aXRoIHNuYXAgb24gZHJlc3Nlcy4g
> QWxsIG9uIG91ciBmcm9udCBwb3JjaC4gCgpDaGVlcnMsCkxpc2EgCgpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBo
> b25lCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fClVoaWxs
> cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKVWhpbGxzQHVuaWhpbGxzLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3VuaWhpbGxzLm9yZy9t
> YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3VoaWxsc191bmloaWxscy5vcmcKTm90ZTogUG9zdHMgb3ZlciAxIE1C
> IHdpbGwgYmUgcmVqZWN0ZWQuCkdvIGhlcmUgdG8gcmVzaXplOiBodHRwczovL2dvby5nbC9LOFpa
> QUcK

From luscheina at yahoo.de  Mon Jun 17 02:14:18 2019
From: luscheina at yahoo.de (Christian F Buser)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:14:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] binary instead of html
In-Reply-To: <ca7c8f7f-e8a4-4f65-4bf8-f197c3bfcbf4@pixelloom.com>
References: <294A090F-A537-43B5-9565-CB08BB6C2E62@me.com>
 <ca7c8f7f-e8a4-4f65-4bf8-f197c3bfcbf4@pixelloom.com>
Message-ID: <20190617081418111170.e7768e10@yahoo.de>

Hello Nina Macdonald. On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:01:39 -0700, you wrote: 

> I have one listserv subscriber, who is signed up for the regular (not 
> digest) version.  He has been intermittently getting these odd 
> versions of messages.  When he gets this format, he does not get the 
> regular html version. Most of the messages come through just fine. I 
> have a number of other ones he has sent me if you need to see them. I 
> also have 9 other subscribers on me.com, whom I have not gotten 
> complaints from.

I have no idea, when / why such binary message bodies are created. But it happens to me as well - not only in mailing lists, but also with "regular" messages. I do not think this is an issue of Mailman (or any other list software) since they usually just add some headers and forward them "as is". It either happens at the originator?s mail program, or in any server involved between the sender and the final recipient.

However, my mail clients all can display the message properly. I am using GyazMail and Postbox 5 on different machines (all Macs). 

Therefore my first suggestion to that user would be to try a different program for Mail. 

Christian 
-- 
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)      
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

From peter at pi4cc.nl  Mon Jun 17 03:06:57 2019
From: peter at pi4cc.nl (Peter)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:06:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interfece doen't work correctly
Message-ID: <333b6c0c5b9193cffb3b15954ba82a7c@pi4cc.nl>

Hi there,


Mailman is working well here.
Received, send and archive emails as ik has to be.
Via web interface (Apache2.4) I can add/remove users

But the only that not can be done is authorization/reject emails that 
are not belong to a list member.
I do received the authorization email, click on the link and I got the 
correct page.
Select what to do and click submit all data.
Then nothing happens :-(

I'am using  version 2.1.23 on a Debian9 system

Peter

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 17 08:35:23 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 05:35:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interfece doen't work correctly
In-Reply-To: <333b6c0c5b9193cffb3b15954ba82a7c@pi4cc.nl>
References: <333b6c0c5b9193cffb3b15954ba82a7c@pi4cc.nl>
Message-ID: <90FED90D-E901-478F-B454-8F664C6D8088@msapiro.net>

On June 17, 2019 12:06:57 AM PDT, Peter <peter at pi4cc.nl> wrote:
>
>But the only that not can be done is authorization/reject emails that 
>are not belong to a list member.
>I do received the authorization email, click on the link and I got the 
>correct page.
>Select what to do and click submit all data.
>Then nothing happens :-(


See the article at https://wiki.list.org/x/4030602




-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

From jorohr at gmail.com  Mon Jun 17 10:43:33 2019
From: jorohr at gmail.com (Johannes Rohr)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:43:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What to do about SPF rejection?
Message-ID: <e328f9e0-40c9-53ec-2988-4e5ddc0ac80b@gmail.com>

Dear all,

I today saw three bounces where the receiving mail server had said:

host mail.gfbv.de[185.199.217.16] said: 550 external MTA
    sending our header From:  XXXX <XXX at gfbv.de> (in reply to
    end of DATA command)

The SPF record for gfbv.de is

gfbv.de.		86400	IN	TXT	"v=spf1 mx a:epicmail1.newsaktuell.net ~all"

I am not sure, whether mailman 2 has any workaround for this like for
the DMARC issue

Can anyone spot, whether there is something wrong with the SPF record?
Whose fault is it?

My mailman instance has its own spf record:

lists.ilo169.de.??? 9531??? IN??? TXT??? "v=spf1 mx a ip4:5.9.62.175 ~all"

I am not familiar with the spf syntax, so I can't tell whether it is our
fault or theirs.

At first glace, it would look to me as if the solution would be similar
to the DMARC workaround, that is to swap the original From: address with
the list address. But again, mailman offers this option only for DMARC
issues.

Does anyone have advice for me?

Thanks so much in advance,

Johannes







From johnl at taugh.com  Mon Jun 17 12:47:02 2019
From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine)
Date: 17 Jun 2019 12:47:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What to do about SPF rejection?
In-Reply-To: <e328f9e0-40c9-53ec-2988-4e5ddc0ac80b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20190617164702.C627F2015A27AE@ary.qy>

In article <e328f9e0-40c9-53ec-2988-4e5ddc0ac80b at gmail.com> you write:
>Dear all,
>
>I today saw three bounces where the receiving mail server had said:
>
>host mail.gfbv.de[185.199.217.16] said: 550 external MTA
>    sending our header From:  XXXX <XXX at gfbv.de> (in reply to
>    end of DATA command)
>
>The SPF record for gfbv.de is
>
>gfbv.de.		86400	IN	TXT	"v=spf1 mx a:epicmail1.newsaktuell.net ~all"
>
>I am not sure, whether mailman 2 has any workaround for this like for
>the DMARC issue
>
>Can anyone spot, whether there is something wrong with the SPF record?
>Whose fault is it?

Theirs.  That message says they apparently have a policy of rejecting
any incoming mail with their domain on the From: line.  They can do
that if they want, but it means that none of their users can
participate in mailing lists.

I suppose you could further screw up your list and do DMARC rewrites
even for domains without DMARC policies, but I'd suggest contacting
whoever is subscribed there and encourage him or her to subscribe from
an address that isn't gratuitiously hostile to mailing lists.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl at iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

From jimpop at domainmail.org  Mon Jun 17 13:01:31 2019
From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 13:01:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What to do about SPF rejection?
In-Reply-To: <20190617164702.C627F2015A27AE@ary.qy>
References: <20190617164702.C627F2015A27AE@ary.qy>
Message-ID: <1560790891.2982.1.camel@domainmail.org>

On Mon, 2019-06-17 at 12:47 -0400, John Levine wrote:
> In article <e328f9e0-40c9-53ec-2988-4e5ddc0ac80b at gmail.com> you write:
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > I today saw three bounces where the receiving mail server had said:
> > 
> > host mail.gfbv.de[185.199.217.16] said: 550 external MTA
> >    sending our header From:  XXXX <XXX at gfbv.de> (in reply to
> >    end of DATA command)
> > 
> > The SPF record for gfbv.de is
> > 
> > gfbv.de.		86400	IN	TXT	"v=spf1 mx a:epicmail1.newsaktuell.net ~all"
> > 
> > I am not sure, whether mailman 2 has any workaround for this like for
> > the DMARC issue
> > 
> > Can anyone spot, whether there is something wrong with the SPF record?
> > Whose fault is it?
> 
> Theirs.  That message says they apparently have a policy of rejecting
> any incoming mail with their domain on the From: line.  They can do
> that if they want, but it means that none of their users can
> participate in mailing lists.
> 
> I suppose you could further screw up your list and do DMARC rewrites
> even for domains without DMARC policies, but I'd suggest contacting
> whoever is subscribed there and encourage him or her to subscribe from
> an address that isn't gratuitiously hostile to mailing lists.

I've experienced similar before, some people work for large companies
that outsource email policies to others^widiots.  I wrote the patch
below, which was merged into v2.1.29, specifically to address for such
idiotic policies.

https://code.launchpad.net/~jimpop/mailman/dmarc-moderation-addresses/+merge/359963

-Jim P.


From iank at fsf.org  Mon Jun 17 17:51:15 2019
From: iank at fsf.org (Ian Kelling)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:51:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Could Mailman apply "munge from" in less cases?
Message-ID: <87o92vg9t8.fsf@fsf.org>

For example, "munge from" is applied only to messages from domains that
publish a DMARC policy of 'reject' or 'quarantine'. However, if the
message mailman is sending has a valid DKIM signature because there is
no footer or subject prefix and no other edge cases, there is no reason
to munge, because it will pass the DMARC check. It seems Mailman could
do that. Or, if not, could it seems the MTA could do this checking and
munging.

--
Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7  DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF
https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 17 21:44:37 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:44:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Could Mailman apply "munge from" in less cases?
In-Reply-To: <87o92vg9t8.fsf@fsf.org>
References: <87o92vg9t8.fsf@fsf.org>
Message-ID: <f2db9045-4c76-fc86-af56-790d169c41d2@msapiro.net>

On 6/17/19 2:51 PM, Ian Kelling wrote:
> For example, "munge from" is applied only to messages from domains that
> publish a DMARC policy of 'reject' or 'quarantine'. However, if the
> message mailman is sending has a valid DKIM signature because there is
> no footer or subject prefix and no other edge cases, there is no reason
> to munge, because it will pass the DMARC check. It seems Mailman could
> do that.


It can. If your list makes no transformations that break DMARC, just set
dmarc_moderation_action to Accept.

There is still a potential issue if you do that if the sender's domain
doesn't DKIM sign the message and relies on SPF (which any forwarding
will break) to pass DMARC, but my experience is very few if any domains
that publish a DMARC policy do not DKIM sign their mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 17 22:20:07 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:20:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] binary instead of html
In-Reply-To: <ca7c8f7f-e8a4-4f65-4bf8-f197c3bfcbf4@pixelloom.com>
References: <294A090F-A537-43B5-9565-CB08BB6C2E62@me.com>
 <ca7c8f7f-e8a4-4f65-4bf8-f197c3bfcbf4@pixelloom.com>
Message-ID: <15436d2c-6671-4f5f-cec6-855fe9627711@msapiro.net>

On 6/16/19 10:01 PM, Nina Macdonald wrote:
> I have one listserv subscriber, who is signed up for the regular (not
> digest) version.? He has been intermittently getting these odd versions
> of messages.? When he gets this format, he does not get the regular html
> version. Most of the messages come through just fine. I have a number of
> other ones he has sent me if you need to see them. I also have 9 other
> subscribers on me.com, whom I have not gotten complaints from.

See my comments inline below.


> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject:???? Fwd: yet another
> Date:???? Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:50:37 -0700
> From:???? George Lang <georgelang3 at me.com>
> To:???? webmaster at unihills.org
> 
> 
> 
> And no normal from Lisa Crummet
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> *From:* uhills-bounces at unihills.org <mailto:uhills-bounces at unihills.org>
>> *Date:* June 16, 2019 at 13:40:06 PDT
>> *To:* uhills at unihills.org <mailto:uhills at unihills.org>


The 3 lines above are the user's MUA's description of the message.

The lines below here are some but not all of the message headers and
base64 encoded message body.

This is occurring because something in the delivery chain to the user,
presumably the MTA at the user's ISP as there are no Received: headers
below here, has added this Content analysis details: header and
presumably also inserted a blank line ahead of it. The blank line ends
the headers so the remainin headers and body all look like the message
body to the user's MUA.

Since the

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

headers are below, the base64 encoded message body is not decoded.

This appears to be an issue in whatever adds the Content analysis
details: header with the SpamAssassin report.

The only curious thing is why doesn't this happen with every message, or
perhaps it does, but some message bodies are not base64 encoded and are
thus readable.

This is an issue for the user's ISP. It is not a Mailman issue. The only
part of it that has anything to do with Mailman is Mailman will base64
encode the message body if the message character set is UTF-8, but not
if it is US-ASCII.


>> Content analysis details: ??(-2.1 points, 3.0 required)
>> ?pts rule name ?????????????description
>> ---- ----------------------
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> -1.9 BAYES_00 ??????????????BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
>> ????????????????????????????[score: 0.0000]
>> ?0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM ?????????Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail
>> ????????????????????????????provider (lisacrummett[at]gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com>)
>> -0.0 SPF_PASS ??????????????SPF: sender matches SPF record
>> -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU ?????????Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
>> ????????????????????????????author's domain
>> -0.1 DKIM_VALID ????????????Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK
>> signature
>> -0.1 DKIM_VALID_EF ?????????Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
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-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Jun 20 18:07:48 2019
From: steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 22:07:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long will Mailman version 2 be supported for?
Message-ID: <ME2PR01MB4930534336F0F9708705608DD4E40@ME2PR01MB4930.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>


thanks


regards.


Steven

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Fri Jun 21 07:29:53 2019
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (mailman-admin)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 13:29:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long will Mailman version 2 be supported
 for?
In-Reply-To: <ME2PR01MB4930534336F0F9708705608DD4E40@ME2PR01MB4930.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB4930534336F0F9708705608DD4E40@ME2PR01MB4930.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5f000718-641f-0b0f-350f-ceaaa8ca0f74@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello

See:
https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg71795.html


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

Am 21.06.19 um 00:07 schrieb Steven Jones:
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> regards.
> Steven


From alexmiroslav at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 17:36:38 2019
From: alexmiroslav at gmail.com (Aleksandr Miroslav)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:36:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how did spam message get through a moderated list?
Message-ID: <CACcSE1yTmYbXH-O-jV4YPYA2G1-eBEPNL55jWkiQehE5cLBaKg@mail.gmail.com>

Recently a spam message came in to four lists I administer. The email
was writtenlike this: firstmlast <user at example.com>.

I recognized the real name, because First M. Last, is someone I know
and is subscribed to all the lists. However, the "user at example.com"
was totally foreign. So spam.

Three of the lists automatically discarded the email, as I have
configured them to do, and sent me an notification about it. But the
fourth list sent it through, even though user at example.com was not
subscribed to the list, and I have generic_nonmember_action set to
Discard.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how/why this email got
through. I have set the list to emergency moderation for now, but I'd
like to know how it got through in the first place.

I did a config dump and vimdiff across the 3 lists, apart from the
list names, signatures, and two minor fields (max_num_recipients, and
admin_member_chunksize), they are all identical.

In, /usr/local/mailman/logs/post, I see this for the message:

Jun 26 03:48:40 2019 (1052) post to listname from user at example.com,
size=6065, message-id
<xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx at xxxxx-xxxxxxxx>, success

For the other 3 lists, I see this in /usr/local/mailman/logs/vette:

Jun 26 03:48:31 2019 (1050) Message discarded, msgid:
<xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx at xxxxx-xxxxxxxx>'
        list: list1,
        handler: Moderate
Jun 26 03:48:51 2019 (1050) Message discarded, msgid:
<xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx at xxxxx-xxxxxxxx>'
        list: list2,
        handler: Moderate
Jun 26 03:50:22 2019 (1050) Message discarded, msgid:
<xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx at xxxxx-xxxxxxxx>'
        list: list3,
        handler: Moderate

Does anyone know why the message to the fourth list went through?

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jun 27 12:52:46 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how did spam message get through a moderated
 list?
In-Reply-To: <CACcSE1yTmYbXH-O-jV4YPYA2G1-eBEPNL55jWkiQehE5cLBaKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACcSE1yTmYbXH-O-jV4YPYA2G1-eBEPNL55jWkiQehE5cLBaKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4bfe45d5-3f17-78a4-4ab8-98b16c865d7d@msapiro.net>

On 6/26/19 2:36 PM, Aleksandr Miroslav wrote:
> 
> Three of the lists automatically discarded the email, as I have
> configured them to do, and sent me an notification about it. But the
> fourth list sent it through, even though user at example.com was not
> subscribed to the list, and I have generic_nonmember_action set to
> Discard.
> 
> For the life of me, I cannot figure out how/why this email got
> through. I have set the list to emergency moderation for now, but I'd
> like to know how it got through in the first place.


Mailman looks at more than the From: header to determine if the message
is from a list member. From Defaults.py

> # Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by looking at a
> # set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a member of
> # the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable.  The
> # value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names are
> # case insensitive.
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

It may or may not be possible to determine from looking at the received
post what all these values were in the incoming message as Reply-To: may
have been munged based on list settings and the envelope sender and
Sender: headers will have been rewritten to the list-bounces address,
but if you have access, you can determine the envelope sender from the
system MTA logs.

In any case, I'm sure the message was accepted because one of the
envelope sender, Reply-To: or Sender: had a list member address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan