From jannik.petersen at posteo.de  Tue Oct  1 09:21:36 2019
From: jannik.petersen at posteo.de (jannik.petersen at posteo.de)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:21:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail receipt not working for multiple list members
Message-ID: <009501d5785b$27409a80$75c1cf80$@posteo.de>

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Multiple members of our cluster-strategy at ndc-cluster.net
<mailto:cluster-strategy at ndc-cluster.net>  mailing list have reported that
they did not receive several emails sent to this list. Un- and resubscribing
them did not solve the problem and neither did trying out the multiple
options listed in the FAQ. What I did do just now is to disable automatic
bounce processing. Could that be somehow related to the problem? Are there
any common issues you have encountered that I may not know about and other
options that I could try out to solve this problem? 

 

Thank you very much in advance for any assistance in this matter. It is
greatly appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

Jannik Petersen 

 


From boardtc at gmail.com  Tue Oct  1 11:17:49 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:17:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
Message-ID: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>

I have 3 lists, going to mailing list administration and clicking on Go to
list archives gives Private archive file not found for all.

But in cPanel mailing lists it says:

list 1 usage 14.98 MB
list 2 usage: 37.72 MB

list 3 has usage in KB, which is what I expect. All are I believe setup
identically

I don't have command line access to my cPanel - just FileManager.

How do I find out what these 50+MB are being used for and how do  I recover
the 50+MB?

Thanks!

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  1 14:22:50 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 11:22:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail receipt not working for multiple list
 members
In-Reply-To: <009501d5785b$27409a80$75c1cf80$@posteo.de>
References: <009501d5785b$27409a80$75c1cf80$@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <e0a68a4a-1f16-25ec-6f2e-211fc5dd0818@msapiro.net>

On 10/1/19 6:21 AM, jannik.petersen at posteo.de wrote:
> 
> Multiple members of our cluster-strategy at ndc-cluster.net
> <mailto:cluster-strategy at ndc-cluster.net>  mailing list have reported that
> they did not receive several emails sent to this list. Un- and resubscribing
> them did not solve the problem and neither did trying out the multiple
> options listed in the FAQ.


You or your hosting provider needs to examine the outgoing MTA logs to
see the status of delivery of messages from the list to these users. If
they are not being accepted by the user's ISPs, you need to understand
why. This FAQ <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690> may help.

If it is a DMARC issue, this <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC> may help


> What I did do just now is to disable automatic
> bounce processing. Could that be somehow related to the problem?

Only indirectly. Bounce processing will eventually disable delivery to
and unsubscribe bouncing users, but it won't create delivery issues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  1 14:30:21 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 11:30:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>

On 10/1/19 8:17 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> 
> I don't have command line access to my cPanel - just FileManager.
> 
> How do I find out what these 50+MB are being used for and how do  I recover
> the 50+MB?


See the FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>.

This is a question only your hosting provider can answer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  1 14:45:57 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 11:45:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>

On 9/30/19 8:58 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> 
> I have some mailing lists setup on cpanel. One address I have added to my
> whitelist in spamassain. I also have no auto discard set, with "Discard
> held messages older than this number of days. Use 0 for no automatic
> discarding." set to 0.


This only affects messages which are held for moderation and still
waiting moderator action after max_days_to_hold days.

	
> However, emails from this address come in as auto discarded.


For a list of possible reasons for this, see
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081004.html>.

The most likely reason is the message is HTML only and Mailman's content
filtering does not accept HTML. Note that if pass_mime_types is
non-empty, convert_html_to_plaintext is only effective if text/html is
included in pass_mime_types.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct  1 15:05:29 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 12:05:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>

On 10/1/19 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> For a list of possible reasons for this, see
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081004.html>.


This has now been summarized in a new FAQ at
<https://wiki.list.org/x/17892050>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From boardtc at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 11:35:00 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 16:35:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mark. I'm unsure how I missed the moderation for so long as
anything due shows on the first page always.

btw, I read the faq page and I do not have a notion what it is saying! I
guess it's a faq page for someone in the loop. I'm unsure why it could not
have the simple explanation you gave regarding the message still needed to
be moderated.

On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 20:05, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/1/19 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> > For a list of possible reasons for this, see
> > <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081004.html>.
>
>
> This has now been summarized in a new FAQ at
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892050>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boardtc%40gmail.com
>

From boardtc at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 11:47:02 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 16:47:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>

 I came to this group as my isp said they would not support a 3rd party.

I'm confused, Mark. I printed out the link you sent me but I was
dumbfounded when I read through it now that there was nothing about
clearing out the 50MB and an unhelpful page more or less telling people to
leave the group alone :-(

Would someone on this group willing to try and help me retrieve my precious
50MB?

Thanks!

On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 19:30, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/1/19 8:17 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> >
> > I don't have command line access to my cPanel - just FileManager.
> >
> > How do I find out what these 50+MB are being used for and how do  I
> recover
> > the 50+MB?
>
> See the FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>.
>

From bryant at sandiego.edu  Thu Oct  3 12:07:15 2019
From: bryant at sandiego.edu (Bryan Teague)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:07:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>

Tom, 

It isn?t that Mark is being unhelpful, it is that cpanel doess some ? odd things with the packages that they bring into their ecosystem.  Most of the people on the mailman list are system admins, or at the very least, people who have command line access to the servers that run their mailman installations. 

When I was running mailman lists through cPanel,  I found the cpanel forums to be  a great help, along with the documentation and information found on the support site for cpanel.  (Both of those links are contained in the second paragraph of the page for your convenience I included them here) 

http://forums.cpanel.net/ <http://forums.cpanel.net/>

http://support.cpanel.net/ <http://support.cpanel.net/>

As to your specific problem of the private archives this is what I found when I looked at one of my cpanel installations: 

https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/82Docs/Mailing+Lists
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/82Docs/Archive

Hope this helps to clarify the issues for you.  

Bryan Teague
Senior Web Administrator, 
Library and Web Services
Information Technology Services
Maher Hall 196
5998 Alcal? Park
San Diego, CA 92110-2492
Work: 619.260.7842
Cell: 619.321.7288
bryant at sandiego.edu?

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Tom Corcoran <boardtc at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I came to this group as my isp said they would not support a 3rd party.
> 
> I'm confused, Mark. I printed out the link you sent me but I was
> dumbfounded when I read through it now that there was nothing about
> clearing out the 50MB and an unhelpful page more or less telling people to
> leave the group alone :-(
> 
> Would someone on this group willing to try and help me retrieve my precious
> 50MB?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 19:30, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/1/19 8:17 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't have command line access to my cPanel - just FileManager.
>>> 
>>> How do I find out what these 50+MB are being used for and how do  I
>> recover
>>> the 50+MB?
>> 
>> See the FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>.
>> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bryant%40sandiego.edu


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Oct  3 12:41:44 2019
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 12:41:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
Message-ID: <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>

On 10/3/19 12:07 PM, Bryan Teague wrote:
> Tom,
>
> It isn?t that Mark is being unhelpful, it is that cpanel doess some ? odd things with the packages that they bring into their ecosystem.  Most of the people on the mailman list are system admins, or at the very least, people who have command line access to the servers that run their mailman installations.
>
> When I was running mailman lists through cPanel,  I found the cpanel forums to be  a great help, along with the documentation and information found on the support site for cpanel.  (Both of those links are contained in the second paragraph of the page for your convenience I included them here)
>
> http://forums.cpanel.net/ <http://forums.cpanel.net/>
>
> http://support.cpanel.net/ <http://support.cpanel.net/>
>
> As to your specific problem of the private archives this is what I found when I looked at one of my cpanel installations:
>
> https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/82Docs/Mailing+Lists
> https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/82Docs/Archive
>
> Hope this helps to clarify the issues for you.
>
> Bryan Teague
> Senior Web Administrator,
> Library and Web Services
> Information Technology Services
> Maher Hall 196
> 5998 Alcal? Park
> San Diego, CA 92110-2492
> Work: 619.260.7842
> Cell: 619.321.7288
> bryant at sandiego.edu?
>
>> On Oct 3, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Tom Corcoran <boardtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I came to this group as my isp said they would not support a 3rd party.
>>
>> I'm confused, Mark. I printed out the link you sent me but I was
>> dumbfounded when I read through it now that there was nothing about
>> clearing out the 50MB and an unhelpful page more or less telling people to
>> leave the group alone :-(
>>
>> Would someone on this group willing to try and help me retrieve my precious
>> 50MB?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 19:30, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/1/19 8:17 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
>>>> I don't have command line access to my cPanel - just FileManager.
>>>>
>>>> How do I find out what these 50+MB are being used for and how do  I
>>> recover
>>>> the 50+MB?
>>> See the FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel>.
>>>
>>>
Hi Tom,

I have provided Mailman hosting via cPanel for many years now. I 
apologize for not responding earlier to your request. I know exactly 
what is taking up that space: attachments. Mailman takes message 
attachments and stores them in an attachment directory that is part of 
the Mailman file structure. This directory cannot be access via a normal 
cPanel user. It requires root access. We have clients who from time to 
time ask us to reduce their disk usage by clearing out their attachment 
directory which we are happy to do.

Personally I would like invite you to check us out at https://emwd.com 
as I think your host did you wrong when they said they would not support 
a 3rd party. If they are a cPanel host then Mailman is part of cPanel 
and therefore should be supported.

-- 
Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients.
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

--
EMWD's Knowledgebase:
https://clientarea.emwd.com/index.php/knowledgebase

EMWD's Community Forums
http://discourse.emwd.com/


From boardtc at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 13:21:58 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 18:21:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Brian!

That's great to have that confirmed :-)

*But*, the mystery for me is if archives are turned off how are the
attachments saved. Is there another setting? If not, surely one should be
added so this unnecessary support request is not needed?

I may have done my isp a disservice. I had a separate request (no resolved)
re mailman auto discarding and I think that was the one the were pointing
me elsewhere for.


On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 18:09, Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> I have provided Mailman hosting via cPanel for many years now. I
> apologize for not responding earlier to your request. I know exactly
> what is taking up that space: attachments. Mailman takes message
> attachments and stores them in an attachment directory that is part of
> the Mailman file structure. This directory cannot be access via a normal
> cPanel user. It requires root access. We have clients who from time to
> time ask us to reduce their disk usage by clearing out their attachment
> directory which we are happy to do.
>
> Personally I would like invite you to check us out at https://emwd.com
> as I think your host did you wrong when they said they would not support
> a 3rd party. If they are a cPanel host then Mailman is part of cPanel
> and therefore should be supported.
>

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Oct  3 13:29:26 2019
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 13:29:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <029fdf5e-f596-f70b-69db-34a4081ce452@emwd.com>

On 10/3/19 1:21 PM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> Thanks Brian!
>
> That's great to have that confirmed :-)
>
> *But*, the mystery for me is if archives are turned off how are the
> attachments saved. Is there another setting? If not, surely one should be
> added so this unnecessary support request is not needed?
>
> I may have done my isp a disservice. I had a separate request (no resolved)
> re mailman auto discarding and I think that was the one the were pointing
> me elsewhere for.
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 18:09, Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> I have provided Mailman hosting via cPanel for many years now. I
>> apologize for not responding earlier to your request. I know exactly
>> what is taking up that space: attachments. Mailman takes message
>> attachments and stores them in an attachment directory that is part of
>> the Mailman file structure. This directory cannot be access via a normal
>> cPanel user. It requires root access. We have clients who from time to
>> time ask us to reduce their disk usage by clearing out their attachment
>> directory which we are happy to do.
>>
>> Personally I would like invite you to check us out at https://emwd.com
>> as I think your host did you wrong when they said they would not support
>> a 3rd party. If they are a cPanel host then Mailman is part of cPanel
>> and therefore should be supported.
>>
Attachments still accumulate even with archiving turned off. I believe 
you have to enable content filtering to filter them out.

Your host still should have purged those attachments for you.

-- 
Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients.
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

--
EMWD's Knowledgebase:
https://clientarea.emwd.com/index.php/knowledgebase

EMWD's Community Forums
http://discourse.emwd.com/


From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Oct  4 02:47:08 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 15:47:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23958.60140.357519.214827@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Tom Corcoran writes:

 > *But*, the mystery for me is if archives are turned off how are the
 > attachments saved. Is there another setting? If not, surely one
 > should be added so this unnecessary support request is not needed?

Mailman has a facility for saving attachments so that (1) space usage
on multiuser systems can be reduced and (2) users have to take
explicit action to retrieve "dangerous" file types (.exe, for
example).  This feature is controlled by the "Nondigest options" ->
"Scrub Nondigest" option.  (I don't know how this affects digests; I
suppose it controls them too but this is undocumented AFAICS.)

If you want them discarded "with extreme prejudice", then I believe
this option should be set to "No" (which is counterintuitive, I guess)
and use the "Content Filtering" options to either remove and discard
content types you don't want, or pass only those types you do want,
and discard the rest.

Steve


From soyeomul at red-october.yw.doraji.xyz  Tue Oct  8 09:41:41 2019
From: soyeomul at red-october.yw.doraji.xyz (=?utf-8?B?7Zmp67OR7Z2s?=)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2019 22:41:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine
References: <87tvfwafy6.fsf@delta.birch.chromebook>
Message-ID: <yw.149.38cob43rsh.fsf@delta.birch.chromebook>

Sorry for late, i need to time think about that.
Thanks you for *everyone* for me to feedback, indeed...

Sincerely,

-- 
^????? _????_ ?????_^))//


From boardtc at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 06:27:13 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:27:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>

I have a mailing list setup so myself and my wife get emails re our kids,
from school, sports clubs, etc. We want everything to come through so I
wish there was an option for that!

As reported in this thread I have no auto discard set, with "Discard held
messages older than this number of days. Use 0 for no automatic
discarding." set to 0. I was told here that the later only affects messages
which are held for moderation and still waiting moderator action after
max_days_to_hold days.

The faq mentioned is unreadable for a non-expert.

I am still getting auto discard from a club email that sends a pdf
newsletter, I have the address whitelisted in cpanel.

Please, can someone advise me?

Cheers,

Tom.


On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 16:35, Tom Corcoran <boardtc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Mark. I'm unsure how I missed the moderation for so long as
> anything due shows on the first page always.
>
> btw, I read the faq page and I do not have a notion what it is saying! I
> guess it's a faq page for someone in the loop. I'm unsure why it could not
> have the simple explanation you gave regarding the message still needed to
> be moderated.
>
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 20:05, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/1/19 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> >
>> > For a list of possible reasons for this, see
>> > <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081004.html
>> >.
>>
>>
>> This has now been summarized in a new FAQ at
>> <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892050>.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boardtc%40gmail.com
>>
>

From boardtc at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 06:43:55 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:43:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwH=quS3xApCJTY=r-MK+9ns8BgFhWd7q3mL9KkHMdXVHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <23958.60140.357519.214827@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAELuEwH2Ln1eFofWpv7WQ4VAfvQkQEW-woQAQqsx=RPuObGPxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwH=quS3xApCJTY=r-MK+9ns8BgFhWd7q3mL9KkHMdXVHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Brian & Steve!

I feel some context would be useful. I solely use mailing lists so both
myself and my wife can get emails from schools, sports clubs, bills, etc.

All emails that come in I want to forward to our 2 addresses with no
archive so as far, as I am concerned ongoing admin having to accept
messages from new addresses, is overkill and I would avoid doing it and
accept all messages if that was possible. Also, sometimes some of the
sports clubs for my kids attach a pdf.

I have only edited the bare minimum of the mailman settings.

1. I looked at "Scrub attachments of the regular delivery message?
(Details for scrub_nondigest)" which opens in a new window it's set to no
already!2. In content filtering, I turned it on and changed nothing else.

Hopefully, #2 means that attachments will now not be archived and I can
achieve my goal of zero build-up of any storage with messages passing
through?

I guess I'll have to wait and see if anything accumulates!

Thanks a million, Tom.

[for some reason this post of 7+ days ago, never appeared on the list, I
may have used the wrong from email]

>

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Oct 14 09:27:54 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 22:27:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <23958.60140.357519.214827@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAELuEwH2Ln1eFofWpv7WQ4VAfvQkQEW-woQAQqsx=RPuObGPxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwH=quS3xApCJTY=r-MK+9ns8BgFhWd7q3mL9KkHMdXVHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23972.30682.869769.915323@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Tom Corcoran writes:

 > All emails that come in I want to forward to our 2 addresses with no
 > archive so as far, as I am concerned ongoing admin having to accept
 > messages from new addresses, is overkill and I would avoid doing it and
 > accept all messages if that was possible. Also, sometimes some of the
 > sports clubs for my kids attach a pdf.

I would then add

text/html
application/pdf

to pass_these_mime_types in the Content Filtering page.  The first
allows HTML-only mail to come in, and since this is really personal
mail I don't see a good reason to disallow HTML.  The second prevents
the PDF from being discarded.  If you strongly *prefer* plain text to
HTML-formatted email, you could set both of

collapse_alternatives
convert_html_to_plaintext

to Yes in the same page.

Steve


From boardtc at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 12:27:27 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 17:27:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <23972.30682.869769.915323@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <23958.60140.357519.214827@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAELuEwH2Ln1eFofWpv7WQ4VAfvQkQEW-woQAQqsx=RPuObGPxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwH=quS3xApCJTY=r-MK+9ns8BgFhWd7q3mL9KkHMdXVHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>
 <23972.30682.869769.915323@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwGjCYHR3_jgBAn8F7RhLGn8-Kc-YwkqK5ZDrATxZ_4riA@mail.gmail.com>

 Wow! Thanks, Steve!

My mention of pdf here, crossed over with my other post and confused,
sorry.

With content_filtering turned on now hopefully no more attachments
accumulate.,

collapse_alternatives
convert_html_to_plaintext

defaulted to Yes, so I turned them off.

Done and tested :-)


Cheers,

Tom.


On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 14:28, Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:

> Tom Corcoran writes:
>
>  > All emails that come in I want to forward to our 2 addresses with no
>  > archive so as far, as I am concerned ongoing admin having to accept
>  > messages from new addresses, is overkill and I would avoid doing it and
>  > accept all messages if that was possible. Also, sometimes some of the
>  > sports clubs for my kids attach a pdf.
>
> I would then add
>
> text/html
> application/pdf
>
> to pass_these_mime_types in the Content Filtering page.  The first
> allows HTML-only mail to come in, and since this is really personal
> mail I don't see a good reason to disallow HTML.  The second prevents
> the PDF from being discarded.  If you strongly *prefer* plain text to
> HTML-formatted email, you could set both of
>
> collapse_alternatives
> convert_html_to_plaintext
>
> to Yes in the same page.
>
> Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boardtc%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 14 14:20:24 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:20:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>

On 10/14/19 3:27 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> 
> The faq mentioned is unreadable for a non-expert.


In order to solve this issue, you need to understand why the messages
are being discarded. The FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892050> lists
the various list settings that can cause this. I will try to translate:

MimeDel: Does your list have Content filtering -> filter_content set to
Yes. If so, and pass_mime_types is non-empty and does not contain at least
  multipart
  text/plain
  text/html
  application/pdf
Content filtering may be removing the entire message. Simplest solution
is to set filter_content Off.

Moderate: probably not the issue in your case.

Scrubber: If your list's Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest setting
is Yes, this is a possibility but not likely. You can set it to No.

SpamDetect: If your list's Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
dmarc_moderation_action is set to Discard, set it to Munge From. The
other things under SpamDetect are not likely, but you can check if your
list has anything in Privacy options... -> Spam filters ->
header_filter_rules with a Discard action.

The above are all settings in Mailman's list admin UI.


> I am still getting auto discard from a club email that sends a pdf
> newsletter, I have the address whitelisted in cpanel.


I don't know what "whitelisted in cpanel" means. It may mean the address
is added to Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
accept_these_nonmembers, but if so, that is not relevant.

I hope this helps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Oct 14 14:51:41 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 11:51:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <23958.60140.357519.214827@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAELuEwH2Ln1eFofWpv7WQ4VAfvQkQEW-woQAQqsx=RPuObGPxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwH=quS3xApCJTY=r-MK+9ns8BgFhWd7q3mL9KkHMdXVHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9cd869e2-be8d-ad7a-00de-485b696f4058@msapiro.net>

On 10/14/19 3:43 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> 
> 1. I looked at "Scrub attachments of the regular delivery message?
> (Details for scrub_nondigest)" which opens in a new window it's set to no
> already!2. In content filtering, I turned it on and changed nothing else.


If scrub_nondigest is No, attachments will Not be stored aside in the
archive and replaced by a link in the message. This is exactly what you
want.

Content filtering may be used to remove unwanted attachments, but with
scrub_nondigest off, attachments won't be stored aside anyway so it
won't affect the storage of things in the archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Tue Oct 15 06:15:21 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 19:15:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No archive files but 2 lists taking up 50MB in
 cPanel?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwGjCYHR3_jgBAn8F7RhLGn8-Kc-YwkqK5ZDrATxZ_4riA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwHwpa00u6O7GM7MmQ87AZNcjaiNPk0rLOKMcHjX=NFiWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <a10737d6-fefb-365b-85b5-db37a0d28688@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFM5CmAESu71GmC6pJTeLz14xR_nwTyBKqXp9xnCkJfog@mail.gmail.com>
 <8A261E7F-E814-4460-B3AF-9AFA5FEA1728@sandiego.edu>
 <64f9cbc8-7ebd-375b-d09d-dc992f89795f@emwd.com>
 <CAELuEwGSL63C+sun2mz6y2q1Bdy3ozh8xjCRhnT9Yk4DjazfWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <23958.60140.357519.214827@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAELuEwH2Ln1eFofWpv7WQ4VAfvQkQEW-woQAQqsx=RPuObGPxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwH=quS3xApCJTY=r-MK+9ns8BgFhWd7q3mL9KkHMdXVHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFF0btZYJ-e=U8hGdw8ofOdc59usz4-5F00LzpPtUB+wA@mail.gmail.com>
 <23972.30682.869769.915323@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAELuEwGjCYHR3_jgBAn8F7RhLGn8-Kc-YwkqK5ZDrATxZ_4riA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23973.39993.308970.550875@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Tom Corcoran writes:
 >  Wow! Thanks, Steve!
 > 
 > My mention of pdf here, crossed over with my other post and
 > confused, sorry.

Not a problem.  I'm still a little worried about your settings,
though.  The question is, "Do you want to receive those PDFs?"  If
"application/pdf" is not in pass_these_mime_types, they will get
discarded.

 > With content_filtering turned on now hopefully no more attachments
 > accumulate.,

Correct.

 > collapse_alternatives
 > convert_html_to_plaintext
 > 
 > defaulted to Yes, so I turned them off.

This is safe to do.


From wetz.peter at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 16:55:42 2019
From: wetz.peter at gmail.com (Peter Wetz)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 22:55:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Intendation of threads in archive too high
Message-ID: <CAGmyAkDX6mBqLp_hmNXT815gcM9KO5W=StfdqODEXPT5P+shAw@mail.gmail.com>

I fiddled around with adding a timestamp to the (threaded) view and
therefore edited HyperArch.py and archidxentry.html

In HyperArch.py I changed the following lines at aroudn line 1073 as
follows:

d = {
            'filename': urllib.quote(article.filename),
            'subject':  subject,
            'sequence': article.sequence,
            'date':     time.strftime("%d %b %Y %H:%M:%S",
time.localtime(float(article.date))),
            'author':   author
        }

archidxentry.html looks like this:

<LI> %(date)s&nbsp;&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
</A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
<I>%(author)s
</I>

However, see that the thread in the archive of my list is indented at level
3. The thread should be at the very left of the screen (where the bullet
points typically start), but this is not the case as can be seen on the
screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/ab9WSuz

I inspected the HTML code and can see that there are three <ul> tags before
the first entry starts. However, I don't know where they come from. As can
be seen above, they are not part of archidxentry.html. I also took a look
at archidxhead.html and archliststart.html, but have seen nothing
suspicious there.

Can you help me please?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Oct 15 17:57:51 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:57:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Intendation of threads in archive too high
In-Reply-To: <CAGmyAkDX6mBqLp_hmNXT815gcM9KO5W=StfdqODEXPT5P+shAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGmyAkDX6mBqLp_hmNXT815gcM9KO5W=StfdqODEXPT5P+shAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c3fda54-edbc-6ad3-15c9-8fea64327548@msapiro.net>

On 10/15/19 1:55 PM, Peter Wetz wrote:
> 
> However, see that the thread in the archive of my list is indented at level
> 3. The thread should be at the very left of the screen (where the bullet
> points typically start), but this is not the case as can be seen on the
> screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/ab9WSuz
> 
> I inspected the HTML code and can see that there are three <ul> tags before
> the first entry starts. However, I don't know where they come from. As can
> be seen above, they are not part of archidxentry.html. I also took a look
> at archidxhead.html and archliststart.html, but have seen nothing
> suspicious there.



This can be caused by multiple copies of the same post (same
Message-ID:) in the archive. You won't see them in the index because
duplicates are suppressed there, but if you inspect the actual
archives/private/LISTNAME/yyyy-Month/ directories, you will see them.

This is normally caused by rebuilding the archive with bin/arch without
specifying --wipe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From boardtc at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 04:30:40 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 09:30:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mark.

Having sent my test email with pdf attached I thought all was fine, but an
email from a club with pdf was auto discarded this morning :-(

My pass_mime_types is now:

multipart
message/rfc822
application/pgp-signature
text/plain
text/html
application/pdf

Looking at the header of the  message discarded I see:

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============12345678=="

Do I need to add
multipart/mixed
to pass_mime_types or something?

Thanks!

Tom.


On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 19:20, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/14/19 3:27 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> >
> > The faq mentioned is unreadable for a non-expert.
>
>
> In order to solve this issue, you need to understand why the messages
> are being discarded. The FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892050> lists
> the various list settings that can cause this. I will try to translate:
>
> MimeDel: Does your list have Content filtering -> filter_content set to
> Yes. If so, and pass_mime_types is non-empty and does not contain at least
>   multipart
>   text/plain
>   text/html
>   application/pdf
> Content filtering may be removing the entire message. Simplest solution
> is to set filter_content Off.
>
> Moderate: probably not the issue in your case.
>
> Scrubber: If your list's Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest setting
> is Yes, this is a possibility but not likely. You can set it to No.
>
> SpamDetect: If your list's Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
> dmarc_moderation_action is set to Discard, set it to Munge From. The
> other things under SpamDetect are not likely, but you can check if your
> list has anything in Privacy options... -> Spam filters ->
> header_filter_rules with a Discard action.
>
> The above are all settings in Mailman's list admin UI.
>
>
> > I am still getting auto discard from a club email that sends a pdf
> > newsletter, I have the address whitelisted in cpanel.
>
>
> I don't know what "whitelisted in cpanel" means. It may mean the address
> is added to Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
> accept_these_nonmembers, but if so, that is not relevant.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 16 10:43:01 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 07:43:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>

On 10/16/19 1:30 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> Thanks, Mark.
> 
> Having sent my test email with pdf attached I thought all was fine, but an
> email from a club with pdf was auto discarded this morning :-(
> 
> My pass_mime_types is now:
> 
> multipart
> message/rfc822
> application/pgp-signature
> text/plain
> text/html
> application/pdf


That looks good.


> Looking at the header of the  message discarded I see:
> 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============12345678=="
> 
> Do I need to add
> multipart/mixed
> to pass_mime_types or something?

No. "multipart" includes all sub-types of multipart. With the settings
you have, it is unlikely that content filtering removed all of the
message. What are the Content-Types of all of the subparts?. If you can
post all the Content-Type headers and boundaries, we can be sure. A
simple example of what I mean is:



> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w"
> ...
> --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> ...
> --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> ...
> --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w--




-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From boardtc at gmail.com  Wed Oct 16 12:16:14 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 17:16:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwFKMZ5Em9_sfDFzCSEBv=+7m6D0GqTg8sO06cpx+MOMwA@mail.gmail.com>

thanks, Mark,

Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01D583FA.47355D80"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002A_01D583FA.47355D80"
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Type: application/pdf;


Phew!


Tom.


On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 15:43, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/16/19 1:30 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> > Thanks, Mark.
> >
> > Having sent my test email with pdf attached I thought all was fine, but
> an
> > email from a club with pdf was auto discarded this morning :-(
> >
> > My pass_mime_types is now:
> >
> > multipart
> > message/rfc822
> > application/pgp-signature
> > text/plain
> > text/html
> > application/pdf
>
>
> That looks good.
>
>
> > Looking at the header of the  message discarded I see:
> >
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============12345678=="
> >
> > Do I need to add
> > multipart/mixed
> > to pass_mime_types or something?
>
> No. "multipart" includes all sub-types of multipart. With the settings
> you have, it is unlikely that content filtering removed all of the
> message. What are the Content-Types of all of the subparts?. If you can
> post all the Content-Type headers and boundaries, we can be sure. A
> simple example of what I mean is:
>
>
>
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w"
> > ...
> > --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > ...
> > --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> > Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> > ...
> > --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w--
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boardtc%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 16 13:01:43 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwFKMZ5Em9_sfDFzCSEBv=+7m6D0GqTg8sO06cpx+MOMwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFKMZ5Em9_sfDFzCSEBv=+7m6D0GqTg8sO06cpx+MOMwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2A3E07-9F11-4573-9992-24FD25AE6E6B@msapiro.net>

On October 16, 2019 9:16:14 AM PDT, Tom Corcoran <boardtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>thanks, Mark,
>
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01D583FA.47355D80"
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Type: message/rfc822
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002A_01D583FA.47355D80"
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Type: text/html;
>	charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Type: application/pdf;


Ok. It's not content filtering doing the discarding.

What's in Privacy options -> Spam filters?



-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.

From boardtc at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 05:38:53 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 10:38:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <4B2A3E07-9F11-4573-9992-24FD25AE6E6B@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFKMZ5Em9_sfDFzCSEBv=+7m6D0GqTg8sO06cpx+MOMwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4B2A3E07-9F11-4573-9992-24FD25AE6E6B@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwGug-gKpJgv+kM2CB+tQ1fA44dROUbYgpjCm=4ukiJObw@mail.gmail.com>

All my stuff is typically default and not set unless ye told me here. I
double-checked and no rules in there....

On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 18:01, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On October 16, 2019 9:16:14 AM PDT, Tom Corcoran <boardtc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >thanks, Mark,
> >
> >Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> >       boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01D583FA.47355D80"
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Type: message/rfc822
> >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> >       boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002A_01D583FA.47355D80"
> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> >       charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Type: text/html;
> >       charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Type: application/pdf;
>
>
> Ok. It's not content filtering doing the discarding.
>
> What's in Privacy options -> Spam filters?

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Oct 17 05:48:02 2019
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 11:48:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirm_delay_cleared = yes vs. Mailman bounce
 management
Message-ID: <20191017094759.5ycnbermvm5htbnq@charite.de>

Today I received a lot of unsubscription notifications for a certain
list.

I grew suspicious and had a closer look. I found that Postfix was
retrying the delivery for a lot of domains behind the same MX and was
(finally) reporting the delivery after a long time of queueing for
that MX host.

This was due to my non-default setting:

confirm_delay_cleared = yes

  After sending a "your message is delayed" notification, inform the
  sender when the delay clears up. This can result in a sudden burst of
  notifications at the end of a prolonged network outage, and is
  therefore disabled by default.

The side effect was that these notifications increased the bounce
score, although the delivery was successful.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk

Campus Benjamin Franklin (CBF)
Haus I | 1. OG | Raum 105
Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin

Tel. +49 30 450 570 155
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de
https://www.charite.de

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 17 10:01:22 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 07:01:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <CAELuEwGug-gKpJgv+kM2CB+tQ1fA44dROUbYgpjCm=4ukiJObw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFKMZ5Em9_sfDFzCSEBv=+7m6D0GqTg8sO06cpx+MOMwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4B2A3E07-9F11-4573-9992-24FD25AE6E6B@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwGug-gKpJgv+kM2CB+tQ1fA44dROUbYgpjCm=4ukiJObw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <823fdb5e-c210-60c2-7a46-8abfec6d6a42@msapiro.net>

On 10/17/19 2:38 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> All my stuff is typically default and not set unless ye told me here. I
> double-checked and no rules in there....

How do you know when a message is discarded? Do you get a message from
Mailman with Subject: Auto-discard notification with the message attached.

If so, the post is from a nonmember and either the nonmember address or
a regexp pattern matching the address is in discard_these_nonmembers or
generic_nonmember_action is Discard.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 17 10:05:47 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 07:05:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirm_delay_cleared = yes vs. Mailman bounce
 management
In-Reply-To: <20191017094759.5ycnbermvm5htbnq@charite.de>
References: <20191017094759.5ycnbermvm5htbnq@charite.de>
Message-ID: <ae889220-c6bd-cb5a-dbf3-3a4f87129b12@msapiro.net>

On 10/17/19 2:48 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> 
> This was due to my non-default setting:
> 
> confirm_delay_cleared = yes
> 
>   After sending a "your message is delayed" notification, inform the
>   sender when the delay clears up. This can result in a sudden burst of
>   notifications at the end of a prolonged network outage, and is
>   therefore disabled by default.
> 
> The side effect was that these notifications increased the bounce
> score, although the delivery was successful.


Apparently these notifications were recognized by Mailman as fatal
bounces. If you can provide an example of the notification, we can
adjust the bounce recognizer to ignore them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Oct 17 16:41:59 2019
From: steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 20:41:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional
Message-ID: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

Yesterday we had a major network outage that lasted 2 hours+  This morning I find that the mailman server has "stopped working"   I have restarted mailman and now the server but mailman is not processing any emails.  The load in top is 0.00 ~0.01 sort of thing, no no disk i/o, no action at all, disks are not full. ssh takes a long time to login but there is no load to cause this. I can see python is running in top but at like 0.3%.

I run mail   me at work and postfix sends fast  so postfix seems OK, its like Mailman is in a coma, its has chocked to death but its heart is still beating....just seems odd.

What can I do here?




regards

Steven

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 17 17:29:22 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 14:29:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>

On 10/17/19 1:41 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Yesterday we had a major network outage that lasted 2 hours+  This morning I find that the mailman server has "stopped working"   I have restarted mailman and now the server but mailman is not processing any emails.  The load in top is 0.00 ~0.01 sort of thing, no no disk i/o, no action at all, disks are not full. ssh takes a long time to login but there is no load to cause this. I can see python is running in top but at like 0.3%.


You say you restarted Mailman and the server, but is Mailman actually
running?

Is Postfix delivering to Mailman (look at Postfix's logs)? Is stuff
piling up in Mailman's queues; if so, which one(s).

See the FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030723> focusing on items 2.2,
6.2, 7, 8 and 9.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Oct 17 18:59:08 2019
From: steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 22:59:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>,
 <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

thanks

I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.

meanwhile,

/var/log/mailman/smtp has something odd. The time to send email varies between 0.017 and 180 seconds plus,  and its getting worse,

==========
Oct 18 11:26:13 2019 (9398) <mailman.0.1571274477.9729.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.017 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:26 2019 (9398) <mailman.1.1571274477.9729.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 12.419 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) <mailman.0.1571274594.9753.vuw-schooladmin at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to vuw-schooladmin for 14 recips, completed in 0.029 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 0.073 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) <mailman.0.1571274783.10156.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) <mailman.1.1571274783.10156.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:39 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 10.111 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  <ME2PR01MB4292894A699E1DF46C8DABE8C46D0 at ME2PR01MB4292.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to fad-design-postgrads for 102 recips, completed in 0.248 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 0.024 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  <ME2PR01MB4292894A699E1DF46C8DABE8C46D0 at ME2PR01MB4292.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 0.030 seconds
Oct 18 11:29:45 2019 (9398) <SYAPR01MB26875792826537251B8585DDD46D0 at SYAPR01MB2687.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to nz-libs for 1844 recips, completed in 184.400 seconds
Oct 18 11:31:31 2019 (9398) <mailman.10788.1571276386.12225.teachingandlearning at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to teachingandlearning for 1 recips, completed in 103.629 seconds
Oct 18 11:34:22 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 169.826 seconds
Oct 18 11:36:26 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 123.446 seconds
Oct 18 11:39:33 2019 (9398)  <ME2PR01MB429218FD19F84FE6C16AA291C46D0 at ME2PR01MB4292.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 187.700 seconds
8><----

==========

We are getting mail but very slowly so mailman is working, and item 2.2

[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
mailman   9390  0.0  0.1 214172  9432 ?        Ss   09:32   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start

and,

[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# service mailman status
mailman (pid 9390) is running...
[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# service postfix status
master (pid  7688) is running...
[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]#

seems to confirm this.

[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# rpm -q mailman
mailman-2.1.12-26.el6_9.3.x86_64


[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
root      8152  0.0  0.5 598144 46040 ?        Sl   09:24   0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/bin/salt-minion -c /etc/salt -d
mailman   9390  0.0  0.1 214172  9432 ?        Ss   09:32   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   9393  2.7  2.8 435468 231896 ?       S    09:32   3:36 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9394  0.0  0.2 219840 16204 ?        S    09:32   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9395  0.0  0.1 216084 12204 ?        S    09:32   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9396  0.0  0.2 226128 22572 ?        S    09:32   0:04 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9397  0.0  0.1 216164 12300 ?        S    09:32   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9398  0.1  0.2 221688 18224 ?        S    09:32   0:12 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9399  0.0  0.2 221168 17556 ?        S    09:32   0:03 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9400  0.0  0.1 216068 12200 ?        S    09:32   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
root     20071  0.0  0.2 210860 19864 ?        S    11:21   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/libexec/rhsmd
[root at vuwunicomailmn1 ~]#

qrunner,

=========
[root at vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]# tail qrunner
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9400) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9395) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9396) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9399) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9397) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9394) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9398) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8205) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8172) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 8205, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[root at vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]#
=========

and its now 11:50am

Ok to assume the above in the qrunner log is normal?





regards

Steven



From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org> on behalf of Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Sent: Friday, 18 October 2019 10:29 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional

On 10/17/19 1:41 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Yesterday we had a major network outage that lasted 2 hours+  This morning I find that the mailman server has "stopped working"   I have restarted mailman and now the server but mailman is not processing any emails.  The load in top is 0.00 ~0.01 sort of thing, no no disk i/o, no action at all, disks are not full. ssh takes a long time to login but there is no load to cause this. I can see python is running in top but at like 0.3%.


You say you restarted Mailman and the server, but is Mailman actually
running?

Is Postfix delivering to Mailman (look at Postfix's logs)? Is stuff
piling up in Mailman's queues; if so, which one(s).

See the FAQ at <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.list.org%2Fx%2F4030723&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7C1427d2215a2f408bdec408d753494165%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C0%7C637069446456693367&amp;sdata=xGByjlzOz0d6N7QNaT17ARO5kH3yXSli%2FHDvdmwlErQ%3D&amp;reserved=0> focusing on items 2.2,
6.2, 7, 8 and 9.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.python.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailman-users&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7C1427d2215a2f408bdec408d753494165%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C0%7C637069446456693367&amp;sdata=muXpmBTgS8iCRmjk2clf8b12r4%2Bw%2FH9UO%2BdPHDOTA8I%3D&amp;reserved=0
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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Oct 17 19:25:47 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 16:25:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>
 <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <96be13c3-036f-aa59-249d-93d8c6117061@msapiro.net>

On 10/17/19 3:59 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> thanks
> 
> I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.
> 
> meanwhile,
> 
> /var/log/mailman/smtp has something odd. The time to send email varies between 0.017 and 180 seconds plus,  and its getting worse,
> 
> ==========
> Oct 18 11:26:13 2019 (9398) <mailman.0.1571274477.9729.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.017 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:26 2019 (9398) <mailman.1.1571274477.9729.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 12.419 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) <mailman.0.1571274594.9753.vuw-schooladmin at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to vuw-schooladmin for 14 recips, completed in 0.029 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 0.073 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) <mailman.0.1571274783.10156.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) <mailman.1.1571274783.10156.postgradcoordinators at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:39 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 10.111 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  <ME2PR01MB4292894A699E1DF46C8DABE8C46D0 at ME2PR01MB4292.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to fad-design-postgrads for 102 recips, completed in 0.248 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 0.024 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  <ME2PR01MB4292894A699E1DF46C8DABE8C46D0 at ME2PR01MB4292.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 0.030 seconds
> Oct 18 11:29:45 2019 (9398) <SYAPR01MB26875792826537251B8585DDD46D0 at SYAPR01MB2687.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to nz-libs for 1844 recips, completed in 184.400 seconds
> Oct 18 11:31:31 2019 (9398) <mailman.10788.1571276386.12225.teachingandlearning at lists.vuw.ac.nz> smtp to teachingandlearning for 1 recips, completed in 103.629 seconds
> Oct 18 11:34:22 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 169.826 seconds
> Oct 18 11:36:26 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 123.446 seconds
> Oct 18 11:39:33 2019 (9398)  <ME2PR01MB429218FD19F84FE6C16AA291C46D0 at ME2PR01MB4292.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 187.700 seconds
> 8><----


Mailman's out queue is backlogged. See
<https://wiki.list.org/x/17892002>. Something is changed affecting
Postfix. Possibly you had a local DNS cache that is now not working and
Postfix DNS lookups are taking a long time. Also consider a separate
Postfix port for Mailman delivery with minimal checking. On
mail.python.org we use something like this in master.cf

127.0.0.1:8027
          inet  n       -       -       -        -      smtpd
        -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
        -o smtpd_client_restrictions=
        -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
        -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
        -o smtpd_data_restrictions=

...
> =========
> [root at vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]# tail qrunner
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9400) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9395) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9396) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9399) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9397) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9394) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9398) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8205) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8172) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 8205, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
> [root at vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]#
> =========
> 
> and its now 11:50am
> 
> Ok to assume the above in the qrunner log is normal?
>


The last three lines are not normal OutgoingRunner has died, but it
seems these are the result of a Mailman restart and the old
OutgoingRunner persisted for a while because it had to finish delivery
of the current message. Note the out of sequence PID and the fact that
ps shows 9398 is running.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com  Fri Oct 18 00:53:35 2019
From: mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 00:53:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <89875590-37FC-42F7-B54D-41E332F4527B@billmail.scconsult.com>

On 17 Oct 2019, at 16:41, Steven Jones wrote:

> ssh takes a long time to login but there is no load to cause this.

The first thing to suspect when logins take a long time with no tangible 
loading issues (i/o, memory, and CPU all good) is DNS. If your resolver 
is trying to query a non-responsive DNS server or servers but eventually 
hits one that works, login and anything involving email transport will 
be plagued by delays.

So: check /etc/resolv.conf and make sure all listed servers are 
responding to queries.

-- 
Bill Cole
bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Oct 18 03:42:06 2019
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:42:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [ext] Re:  mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>
 <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <20191018074204.35zlbbshlt2ibmle@charite.de>

* Steven Jones <steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz>:
> thanks
> 
> I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.

That's bad. So try stopping and starting postfix (after stopping check
with "ps auxwww|fgrep post" to see if there's anything left!!!)

and have a look at /var/log/maillog while doing this.



Ralf Hildebrandt
Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk

Campus Benjamin Franklin (CBF)
Haus I | 1. OG | Raum 105
Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin

Tel. +49 30 450 570 155
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de
https://www.charite.de

From boardtc at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 11:32:26 2019
From: boardtc at gmail.com (Tom Corcoran)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 16:32:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted
 and automatic discarding set to 0?
In-Reply-To: <823fdb5e-c210-60c2-7a46-8abfec6d6a42@msapiro.net>
References: <CAELuEwGdcyoOBdumaSnjUOJ7Dyu0J=5-JGENjTZXXjG7OFJ0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwEsCug_cUjQ+xrm_OrXoVEbPquC9D+fTPRou3KDF93V-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5df6068d-4218-e0fb-01af-e4e1be8ba8b9@msapiro.net>
 <2e68c0a4-c042-30b7-d2dc-5b3a11a65af3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwHT-TL0TightbgM-yZuydMOn2qi-Rs2QM7Y47=tJsXp_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAELuEwFcgU_7tqYHUTN=yiE-SsqAZC2GXmvgHubrfakOygm3cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a8fb2511-e70f-1b47-2778-42d5512190a3@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwF-GWy7sSHQ82FTfK5DEZJT7FWcRGyjU-ZUWddfvW44ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6362f556-4a30-e096-7bb3-a5e1bde193fa@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwFKMZ5Em9_sfDFzCSEBv=+7m6D0GqTg8sO06cpx+MOMwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4B2A3E07-9F11-4573-9992-24FD25AE6E6B@msapiro.net>
 <CAELuEwGug-gKpJgv+kM2CB+tQ1fA44dROUbYgpjCm=4ukiJObw@mail.gmail.com>
 <823fdb5e-c210-60c2-7a46-8abfec6d6a42@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAELuEwHk+qKgJELm9uyvB==obSZH-c3RAfiHH-uz+z_NJgd=Ng@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I get the auto discard message with the pdf attached.

Thank you! via http://listhelper.nongnu.org/mailmanconf.html I found where
generic_nonmember_action was and discovered that the email address was in
the List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically
discarded. Crikey. my bad, I must have clicked wrongly one time!

Thanks for your patience Mark! :-)

Tom.


On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 15:01, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/17/19 2:38 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> > All my stuff is typically default and not set unless ye told me here. I
> > double-checked and no rules in there....
>
> How do you know when a message is discarded? Do you get a message from
> Mailman with Subject: Auto-discard notification with the message attached.
>
> If so, the post is from a nonmember and either the nonmember address or
> a regexp pattern matching the address is in discard_these_nonmembers or
> generic_nonmember_action is Discard.
>

From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Oct 19 09:19:29 2019
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 06:19:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [ext] Re: mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <20191018074204.35zlbbshlt2ibmle@charite.de>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>
 <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <20191018074204.35zlbbshlt2ibmle@charite.de>
Message-ID: <230f8862-e9b5-fd86-4161-89b18e6d661d@tuunq.com>

On 10/18/2019 12:42 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>> I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.
> That's bad. So try stopping and starting postfix (after stopping check
> with "ps auxwww|fgrep post" to see if there's anything left!!!)
> 
> and have a look at /var/log/maillog while doing this.

While I don't object at all to the conversation, this is venturing outside 
of mailman and into system management (DNS function, are the file systems 
full, which processes are running, etc).

Later,

z!

From dnewman at networktest.com  Fri Oct 18 18:46:47 2019
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:46:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] zero-length config.pck file
Message-ID: <7e80ae7f-5558-130b-064a-7c6e6c790a06@networktest.com>

mailman-2.1.29_6, FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE-p10

After an unscheduled power cut by our hosting provider, one of the
mailing lists hosted on this server came back up with a config.pck file
containing 0 bytes. The file's timestamp corresponded to the time of the
power loss.

As a result, bin commands such as 'list_lists' would return a corrupt
database error, and overnight cron jobs wouldn't run. This was only for
one list; other lists on the same server were OK.

I've restored the config.pck file from a backup and things seem to be OK
now.

Just checking, though:

1. Have others encountered config.pck corruption from power loss?

2. (putting on my tinfoil paranoid hat) Is there any chance the file
corruption occurred due to an intrusion attempt, and not the power loss?

Thanks!

dn




From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Oct 19 12:29:43 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:29:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] zero-length config.pck file
In-Reply-To: <7e80ae7f-5558-130b-064a-7c6e6c790a06@networktest.com>
References: <7e80ae7f-5558-130b-064a-7c6e6c790a06@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <71fcea9e-d271-c9b2-209e-085671d4bd76@msapiro.net>

On 10/18/19 3:46 PM, David Newman wrote:
> 
> I've restored the config.pck file from a backup and things seem to be OK
> now.


If there was a config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp with (hhh is the host name and ppp
is the PID of the process doing the updating) or a config.pck.last with
appropriate size and time stamp, those would have been good and more
recent that your backup.

The process for saving a list is

write config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp
    this is the updated config.pck
remove config.pck.last
hard link config.pck.last to config.pck
    now the previous config.pck has two names
rename config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp to config.pck
    finally the new file is named config.pck

See the definition of _save() in Mailman/MailList.py

> Just checking, though:
> 
> 1. Have others encountered config.pck corruption from power loss?


Yes, there have been reports on this list.


> 2. (putting on my tinfoil paranoid hat) Is there any chance the file
> corruption occurred due to an intrusion attempt, and not the power loss?


Extremely unlikely. Much more likely is that particular list was in the
process of being saved when the power went off.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz  Sun Oct 20 18:32:57 2019
From: steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:32:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [ext] Re:  mailman not functional
In-Reply-To: <20191018074204.35zlbbshlt2ibmle@charite.de>
References: <MEAPR01MB46314564143D6B074BA10432D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <31191d77-ca5a-1b1c-75d7-082d89522ef6@msapiro.net>
 <MEAPR01MB4631204BD968B8EA037AE580D46D0@MEAPR01MB4631.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>,
 <20191018074204.35zlbbshlt2ibmle@charite.de>
Message-ID: <SYCPR01MB4638ACA7BE8FFD5AFDAEAC84D46E0@SYCPR01MB4638.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

Thanks, traced this to using tcp connections to the remote logging server (at the insistence of the security manager) rather than udp. So rsyslog on the mailman server locked up as the remote server's rsyslog had locked up due to overload.  Once I restarted the remote rsyslog daemon the 1800 mail queue disappeared so fast I didnt have time to see it go.

Thanks all.


regards

Steven

________________________________
From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org> on behalf of Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>
Sent: Friday, 18 October 2019 8:42 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] [ext] Re: mailman not functional

* Steven Jones <steven.jones at vuw.ac.nz>:
> thanks
>
> I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.

That's bad. So try stopping and starting postfix (after stopping check
with "ps auxwww|fgrep post" to see if there's anything left!!!)

and have a look at /var/log/maillog while doing this.



Ralf Hildebrandt
Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk

Campus Benjamin Franklin (CBF)
Haus I | 1. OG | Raum 105
Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin

Tel. +49 30 450 570 155
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de
https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.charite.de&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7C992475e8dcd54d41239908d7539ed41f%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C1%7C637069814023783999&amp;sdata=yE2R%2BeihjVh6DzZkR9ErCG1pjGvMu%2BYU4Xdx8YxiB%2Fk%3D&amp;reserved=0
------------------------------------------------------
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Searchable Archives: https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fmailman-users%2540python.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7C992475e8dcd54d41239908d7539ed41f%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C1%7C637069814023783999&amp;sdata=tlRt2i0c0d492lIZCClRyF7W%2FztdnjKfuu7k6wwVVk0%3D&amp;reserved=0
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From softwareinfojam at gmail.com  Wed Oct 23 14:56:02 2019
From: softwareinfojam at gmail.com (Peter Fraser)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:56:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List first created
Message-ID: <5db0a241.1c69fb81.e2db6.20f3@mx.google.com>

Hi All
I was wondering, is there a way to tell when a mailing list was first created? 


Regards
SI

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 23 16:49:30 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:49:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List first created
In-Reply-To: <5db0a241.1c69fb81.e2db6.20f3@mx.google.com>
References: <5db0a241.1c69fb81.e2db6.20f3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <91cfacd9-26a3-4ebc-c318-fe1666efbd14@msapiro.net>

On 10/23/19 11:56 AM, Peter Fraser wrote:
> Hi All
> I was wondering, is there a way to tell when a mailing list was first created? 

Both Mailman 2.1 and Mailman 3 lists have a created_at attribute.

In Mailman 2.1 this is a floating point number of seconds since the
epoch. There is a withlist script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/created.py> (mirrored at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/created.py>) to display this timestamp
in human readable form.

In Mailman 3 this is a datetime.datetime object. you can display it in
mailman shell, e.g.,

$ mailman shell -l test.example.net
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell
The variable 'm' is the test.example.net mailing list
>>> m.created_at
datetime.datetime(2018, 8, 4, 18, 12, 19, 331435)
>>>

in this case, the list was created on 2018-04-18 at 18:12:19.331435

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From softwareinfojam at gmail.com  Wed Oct 23 17:23:29 2019
From: softwareinfojam at gmail.com (Peter Fraser)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:23:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List first created
In-Reply-To: <91cfacd9-26a3-4ebc-c318-fe1666efbd14@msapiro.net>
References: <5db0a241.1c69fb81.e2db6.20f3@mx.google.com>
 <91cfacd9-26a3-4ebc-c318-fe1666efbd14@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5db0c4d1.1c69fb81.ac4c5.ef52@mx.google.com>

Thanks very much. Works perfectly.


Regards
SI

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 3:50 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List first created

On 10/23/19 11:56 AM, Peter Fraser wrote:
> Hi All
> I was wondering, is there a way to tell when a mailing list was first created? 

Both Mailman 2.1 and Mailman 3 lists have a created_at attribute.

In Mailman 2.1 this is a floating point number of seconds since the
epoch. There is a withlist script at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/created.py> (mirrored at
<https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/created.py>) to display this timestamp
in human readable form.

In Mailman 3 this is a datetime.datetime object. you can display it in
mailman shell, e.g.,

$ mailman shell -l test.example.net
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell
The variable 'm' is the test.example.net mailing list
>>> m.created_at
datetime.datetime(2018, 8, 4, 18, 12, 19, 331435)
>>>

in this case, the list was created on 2018-04-18 at 18:12:19.331435

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------------------------------------------------------
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/softwareinfojam%40gmail.com


From aordway at ihmc.us  Thu Oct 24 18:16:10 2019
From: aordway at ihmc.us (Alan Ordway)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 22:16:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with Mailman 2 and Postfix 3.1 - Fixed
Message-ID: <7D904C33-8DB1-4CD3-AF15-0CB02DE5C9A9@ihmc.us>

Thought I would share this problem I ran into and the solution incase anyone else has it. Running Mailman 2.1.20 on Ubuntu 16 and a recent update to postfix stopped my lists. In my syslog I was seeing a message similar to:
Oct 24 16:43:59 mailman postfix/smtpd[18686]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from mailman.ihmc.us[184.182.233.xxx]: 451 4.3.0 <user at ihmc.us>: Temporary lookup failure; from=<podcast-bounces at mailman.ihmc.us> to=<user at ihmc.us> proto=ESMTP helo=<mailman.ihmc.us>
As it turns out Postfix 3 tightened up on relaying. In my postfix/main.cf I had both 
mynetworks_style = subnet
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
I finally found at <http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html <http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html>> that if mynetworks is present then mynetworks_style is ignored. So I commented out mynetworks and changed mynetworks_style = host and now mail from lists is being delivered again.
Hope this helps someone else.
--
Alan M Ordway



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From geek at uniserve.com  Sun Oct 27 18:04:10 2019
From: geek at uniserve.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:04:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug
Message-ID: <20191027150410.173650c6@dave-900X1B>

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.26

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

I was trying to log in to the mailman pending admin tasks page to
delete an attempted post by a non-member. 

in /var/log/mailman/error is:


admin(22004): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(22004): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(22004):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in
run_main admin(22004):     main()
admin(22004):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line
219, in main admin(22004):     mlist.Lock()
admin(22004):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 162,
in Lock admin(22004):     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
admin(22004):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243,
in lock admin(22004):     self.__write()
admin(22004):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422,
in __write admin(22004):     fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
admin(22004): IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/amsmembers.lock.web6.bcenclave.ca.22004.0'
admin(22004): [----- Python Information -----] admin(22004):
sys.version     =   2.7.15+ (default, Oct  7 2019, 17:39:04) [GCC
7.4.0] admin(22004): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python 
admin(22004): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
admin(22004): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
admin(22004): sys.path        =   ['/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib',
'/var/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/var/lib/mailman',
'/usr/lib/python2.7', '/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-x86_64-linux-gnu',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages',
'/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages'] admin(22004): sys.platform    =
linux2 admin(22004): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(22004):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 40 admin(22004):   SERVER_NAME:
cleanairplan.ca admin(22004):   SERVER_PORT: 10000 admin(22004):
HTTPS: ON admin(22004):   HTTP_COOKIE: admin(22004):   REMOTE_ADDR:
207.194.211.2 admin(22004):   PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(22004):   PATH_INFO: /amsmembers admin(22004):
SCRIPT_NAME: /virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/admindb.cgi
admin(22004):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST admin(22004):   HTTP_HOST:
cleanairplan.ca:10000 admin(22004):   USER: www-data 
admin(22004):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
admin(22004):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0 
admin(22004):   QUERY_STRING:  
admin(22004):   LOGNAME: www-data 
admin(22004):
REQUEST_URI: /virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/admindb.cgi/amsmembers
admin(22004):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /usr/share/webmin 



I don't know what to do about this.

Dave

From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Oct 28 00:24:05 2019
From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 13:24:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug
In-Reply-To: <20191027150410.173650c6@dave-900X1B>
References: <20191027150410.173650c6@dave-900X1B>
Message-ID: <23990.28005.209730.453225@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dave Stevens writes:

 > I was trying to log in to the mailman pending admin tasks page to
 > delete an attempted post by a non-member. 
 > 
 > in /var/log/mailman/error is:

 > admin(22004):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422,
 >   in __write admin(22004):     fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
 > admin(22004): IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
 >   '/var/lib/mailman/locks/amsmembers.lock.web6.bcenclave.ca.22004.0'

Lockfile.__write is a nearly trivial function; I doubt this is a bug,
rather a configuration issue or an environment it's not designed to
work in.

It appears this process is running as www-data.  Does
/var/lib/mailman/locks exist?  Is it a directory?  Is it readable and
writable as a directory by www-data or www-data's group?  Is it on a
local disk, or some kind of network file system?

 > SCRIPT_NAME: /virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/admindb.cgi

This is not provided by Mailman, I suspect, unless it's a link to a
Mailman script.  What does it do?  Is it just a call to
/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver?

Steve


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Oct 30 13:23:14 2019
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 10:23:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug
In-Reply-To: <23990.28005.209730.453225@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20191027150410.173650c6@dave-900X1B>
 <23990.28005.209730.453225@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <a2fc4533-8a00-31e0-9fe1-006f839ec97e@msapiro.net>

On 10/27/19 9:24 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> It appears this process is running as www-data.  Does
> /var/lib/mailman/locks exist?  Is it a directory?  Is it readable and
> writable as a directory by www-data or www-data's group?  Is it on a
> local disk, or some kind of network file system?

Actually, the owner of /var/lib/mailman/locks doesn't matter. The key
requirement is its group is Mailman's group ('mailman', 'list', whatever
Mailman runs as)

>  > SCRIPT_NAME: /virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/admindb.cgi
> 
> This is not provided by Mailman, I suspect, unless it's a link to a
> Mailman script.  What does it do?  Is it just a call to
> /var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver?

This is probably the standard CGI wrapper for admindb. It too should be
Mailman's group and SETGID.

Does the admin URL have the same error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan