[Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed

[Russell Clemings]

FWIW, I've been seeing a lot more temporary ("We think you might be a
spammer") delays from Gmail in the past few weeks. Usually the delays
aren't very long, 10 or 15 minutes, and since it's throttling, they don't
affect every message. That could definitely result in messages arriving out
of order.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:41 AM <mailman-users-request at python.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Veronica Morris)
>    2. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Veronica Morris)
>    3. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Carl Zwanzig)
>    4. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Mark Sapiro)
>    5. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Brian Carpenter)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Veronica Morris <veronica.m.psdp at gmail.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:59:40 -0400
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
> I run an active discussion group.  Messages come and go from people all
> hours of the day.
>
> For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of
> order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day!
>
> The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone.  Some
> people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get
> that message in an hour, and others in a day.
>
> Most of our users use gmail.
>
> What can we do to fix this?  As ours is a discussion group, timing is
> pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted by
> people not having read previous messages.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin)
>         Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005
> President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners
> veronica at psych.dog
> https://www.psychdogpartners.org
> http://www.doctorv.xyz
> https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris
> https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Veronica Morris <veronica.m.psdp at gmail.com>
> To: Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:35:19 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
> I am using dreamhost.
>
> Almost all of the people on the listserv use gmail.  I have asked if people
> with other email addresses experience the same problem, but no one has
> replied.
>
> Is that what you mean by ISP?
>
> Sorry I am very new to this type of thing!  I have no experience with
> computers!
>
> I will contact Dreamhost, that is an excellent idea!
>
> Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin)
>         Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005
> President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners
> veronica at psych.dog
> https://www.psychdogpartners.org
> http://www.doctorv.xyz
> https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris
> https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 12:30 PM Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Veronica,
> >
> > What hosting service/platform are you using for your discussion list? Are
> > you noticing delays with the same ISPs or does it vary by ISP? I would
> > reach
> > out to your hosting provider and then let know of 3 list members that are
> > experiencing consistent delays and they should be able to review their
> mail
> > log. If you are on cPanel then you can use the track delivery tool to see
> > what is happening with those list members that are experiencing the
> longest
> > delays.
> >
> > Have a great day!
> >
> > Brian Carpenter
> > EMWD.com
> > brian at emwd.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org> On
> > Behalf Of Veronica Morris
> > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:00 AM
> > To: mailman-users at python.org
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
> >
> > I run an active discussion group.  Messages come and go from people all
> > hours of the day.
> >
> > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of
> > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day!
> >
> > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone.
> Some
> > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get
> > that message in an hour, and others in a day.
> >
> > Most of our users use gmail.
> >
> > What can we do to fix this?  As ours is a discussion group, timing is
> > pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted
> by
> > people not having read previous messages.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin)
> >         Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005
> > President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners
> > veronica at psych.dog
> > https://www.psychdogpartners.org
> > http://www.doctorv.xyz
> > https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris
> > https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:29:29 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
> On 9/13/2019 6:59 AM, Veronica Morris wrote:
> > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of
> > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day!
>
> Please remember that email is not a "real time" communication system;
> might
> look like it sometimes, but it's always "store and forward".
>
> > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone.
> Some
> > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get
> > that message in an hour, and others in a day.
>
> For email, this is not abnormal. Mailman will generally "send" all of the
> messages at once, but once they're handed off to the server, they're out
> of
> mailman's control. That server and succeeding ones can have any number of
> delays occur (name resolution, receiving server is busy, held for spam
> checks, etc). Also, once the sending server gets the email to any large
> provider (i.e.gmail or yahoo), -they- may not process that immediately.
>
> In short, there isn't much you can do about this. If mailman is
> personalizing messages, that can cause them to be sent individually
> instead
> of being batched, but in most cases you need that personalization anyway
> for
> things like DMARC mitigation.
>
> Later,
>
> z!
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:37:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
> On 9/13/19 6:59 AM, Veronica Morris wrote:
> > I run an active discussion group.  Messages come and go from people all
> > hours of the day.
> >
> > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of
> > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day!
> >
> > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone.
> Some
> > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get
> > that message in an hour, and others in a day.
> >
> > Most of our users use gmail.
> >
> > What can we do to fix this?  As ours is a discussion group, timing is
> > pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted
> by
> > people not having read previous messages.
>
>
> First, it appears that message delivery from Mailman is slow. There are
> multiple possible reasons for this. It can be that SMTP delivery from
> Mailman to the outgoing MTA is slow - see the FAQ at
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892002>. If this is the case, the FAQ has
> some suggestions for fixing this.
>
> It can also be the case that delivery from the outgoing MTA to the
> various recipient MTAs is being throttled by the recipient MTAs.
> Examination of the outgoing MTA's logs should reveal this.
>
> Also, if people reply-all to posts rather than replying just to the
> list, the direct recipients will probably get the reply before the other
> list members.
>
> In short, you need access to Mailman's logs and the outgoing MTA's logs
> in order to diagnose this further.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com>
> To: "'Veronica Morris'" <veronica.m.psdp at gmail.com>
> Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:39:36 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
> You should be seeing almost instaneous deliveries with Gmail. The mail
> logs will show what’s going on. I know Dreamhost doesn’t use cPanel but I
> am not sure what mail server they us. I know Exim has some settings that
> can interfere with the timely deliveries of messages.
>
>
>
> Have a great day!
>
>
>
> Brian Carpenter
>
> EMWD.com
>
> brian at emwd.com
>
>
>
> From: Veronica Morris <veronica.m.psdp at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:35 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
>
>
>
> I am using dreamhost.
>
>
>
> Almost all of the people on the listserv use gmail.  I have asked if
> people with other email addresses experience the same problem, but no one
> has replied.
>
>
>
> Is that what you mean by ISP?
>
>
>
> Sorry I am very new to this type of thing!  I have no experience with
> computers!
>
>
>
> I will contact Dreamhost, that is an excellent idea!
>
>
>
> Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin)
>
>         Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005
>
>           President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners
> veronica at psych.dog <mailto:veronica at psych.dog>
>
> https://www.psychdogpartners.org
>
> http://www.doctorv.xyz
> https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris
>
> https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 12:30 PM Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com <mailto:
> brian at emwd.com> > wrote:
>
> Hi Veronica,
>
> What hosting service/platform are you using for your discussion list? Are
> you noticing delays with the same ISPs or does it vary by ISP? I would
> reach
> out to your hosting provider and then let know of 3 list members that are
> experiencing consistent delays and they should be able to review their mail
> log. If you are on cPanel then you can use the track delivery tool to see
> what is happening with those list members that are experiencing the longest
> delays.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Brian Carpenter
> EMWD.com
> brian at emwd.com <mailto:brian at emwd.com>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
> <mailto:emwd.com at python.org> > On
> Behalf Of Veronica Morris
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:00 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
>
> I run an active discussion group.  Messages come and go from people all
> hours of the day.
>
> For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of
> order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day!
>
> The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone.  Some
> people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get
> that message in an hour, and others in a day.
>
> Most of our users use gmail.
>
> What can we do to fix this?  As ours is a discussion group, timing is
> pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted by
> people not having read previous messages.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin)
>         Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005
> President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners
> veronica at psych.dog <mailto:veronica at psych.dog>
> https://www.psychdogpartners.org
> http://www.doctorv.xyz
> https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris
> https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris
> ------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
===============================================
Russell Clemings
<russell at clemings.com>
===============================================