[PYTHON META-SIG] My thoughts on mailing lists

[Barry A. Warsaw]

    Me> The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw
    Me> archives will be `get'able via MD.

    GvR> For example, how do I get the archives for the pdo-admin
    GvR> list?  In what format do I get it?

If you mean, how does Joe Average get the archive via majordomo, they
should just be able to send the message "get pdo-admin.archive" to
pdo-admin-request@python.org.  The actual file is kept in

    /home/majordomo/Files/pdo-admin/pdo-admin.archive

MD's archiving is pretty dumb.  It just appends every new message to
this file.  It would serve as raw input to whatever
threading/html-izing engine you want to run on it.

    GvR> Once you know the password, how do you know the extended
    GvR> command set that this (presumably) enables?

The password just enables basically two things, un/subscription
requests and moderated/restrict-post posts.  For the former you
include the password in the long form of the subscribe command (see
`help' sent to majordomo@python.org), and for the latter, you add an
Approve: header with the value being the password.

I'll have to re-read the FAQ to see if there's anything else.  I just
copied the latest version to /home/majordomo/FAQ.

    GvR> I would strongly suggest that all sigs start as open as
    GvR> possible and that moderation or restrict-post only be added
    GvR> when there's a proven need (i.e. when the list is being
    GvR> abused more than sporadically).

I agree completely.

    Me> These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get,
    Me> index, info, which, who.  My preference for the SIG lists is
    Me> to make these non-private (non-members can use them too).
    Me> Again, we can decide this on a per-list basis.

    GvR> Anyway, restricting these only makes sense if subscription is
    GvR> restricted...

Agreed.  The only other scenario I can possibly imagine is a list
who's members would like to remain anonymous.  Well, this is Python
after all, and not sex-with-furniture. :-)

    Me> sigs       -- alias to majordomo
    Me> sigs-info  -- alias to sigs
    Me> owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?)

    GvR> I'm not sure that we need these...

You might be right.  I think these were on somebody's earlier
suggestion, but maybe they don't serve any purpose.  Okay, bag these.

    GvR> Perhaps just "doc-sig"?

We'll let Mike decide since he's going to own it... :-)

    GvR>       opt-sig      -- Optimization (owner: guido)

I'd prefer optimize-sig.  `Opt' always means `Optional' to me when I
read it.

    Me> owner-psa        -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt,
    Me> jfulton, nick

    GvR> That list is probably a bit big -- we don't need everyone in
    GvR> this list to see all the bounces and messages requiring
    GvR> approval.

Fine with me.  Anybody want to take it on?  Otherwise, I'll own it.
    
    GvR> Anyway, what happens if there are two or more owners and both
    GvR> forward a message for approval?  Does it get posted twice?

Could happen.  There'd have to be some coordination between the
owners, like Ken's primary owner, but if he's out of town I'll back
him up.  That kind of thing.

    GvR> On the other hand, if there is to be a list of the "PSA
    GvR> activists", I suggest adding Robin Friedrich
    GvR> <friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com>.

Oops, I meant to include him on meta-sig (I'll do so now).  Sorry
Robin.  We did talk about a psa-sc list for Steering Committee
members.  Okay, add psa-sc to the list of lists...

    GvR> Actually, there are currently only ~130 people subscribed,
    GvR> and it's not really growing (it was once at 200) because most
    GvR> people read it using News.

As I do.  I think the most painful symptom of a list-too-big
(smoke-too-much? :-) is that some people see responses to messages
they haven't seen yet.  I doubt 130 is too big, so let's not worry
about it until it bcomes a problem.

    Me> Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and
    Me> python-gripes.  Do we need all these?  Fine with me if we
    Me> really do, but maybe python-help or python-bugs would suffice.

    GvR> Alias all three to me, for now, so we can announce them.

Okay, if you know what the distinction is, that's fine with me.

    GvR> These two mailing lists serve different purposes from the
    GvR> list @ CWI.  They are intended for those people who
    GvR> specifically don't want usenet news users to be part of their
    GvR> audience.  We should probably discuss creation of these two
    GvR> on python-list@cwi.nl first.

Fine.

    GvR> Perhaps Barry can suggest some boilerplate verbiage that the
    GvR> owner can include in the announcement, explaining how to use
    GvR> the SIG (so each owner doesn't have to write what's
    GvR> essentially the same text)?

What I've done before is basically send out the <list>.info file and
in there I try to outline some basic majordomo usage.  Check out
meta-sig's info for a boilerplate.  If that's insufficient, I'll write
more verbiage.

-Barry

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