From klm@cnri.reston.va.us Fri Nov 10 20:59:29 1995 From: klm@cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:59:29 -0500 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal: 'progenv-sig' python programming environment SIG Message-ID: <9511102059.AA22742@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> The time is ripe... Shed your shackles, smite the oppressor! ... or, um, er, i mean, The time is ripe for for a programming environment SIG - in fact, it may be well past ripe. Several people have expressed interest in such an effort - i'm including several in the distribution of this message, who are not already on the psa-sc mailing list (far as i know), and have contributed materially to the python programming env. The topics would include tools, documentation, and other incidentals which facilitate the actual act of programming in python. Some near-term items (which just happen to be pet-issues of mine:) are: - an emacs gud-debugging-interface for python debugging (for which michael scharf has a good start, last i checked) - interfaces to the emacs oodb and other object-environment browser mechanisms (mark hammond seems to have a real nice one in his windows python port!) - grail extensions for supporting python programming and so forth. While the domain of this SIG might eventually coincide with that of the GUI group, eg in the topic of visual programming, it is would not be intended to focus on the gui mechanisms, but rather the programming tools that would capitalize upon them... I believe we don't have any voting mechanism for SIG creations, but rather a sanity-check from the meta-sig, and the requirement of a "shepherd", or whatever we called it, to take accoutability for the group. I'll be happy to be that person. ken manheimer klm@cnri.reston.va.us (703) 620-8990 x259 Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive, Suite 100 Reston, VA 22091 ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From klm@cnri.reston.va.us Tue Nov 14 17:37:52 1995 From: klm@cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:37:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal: 'progenv-sig' python programming environment SIG In-Reply-To: <9511131602.AA00391@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: > Ken, can you write up the two necessary blurbs and post them back to > meta-sig? See: > > http://www.python.org/sigs/guidelines.html PROGENV-SIG: Discussion forum for Python programming-environment issues The progenv-sig is intended for the discussion of the issues concerning the Python programming environment - the facilities, including editors, interpreter, debuggers, browsers, documentation, and so forth, instrumental in the actual act of Python programming. Discussions may cover use of and problems with existing facilities, as well as efforts to produce new tools and solutions. The overall orientation is to foster the development of this programming environment. Some examples of prospective topics are: - Development and integration of program editors, debuggers, profilers, browsers, etc - Systematic organization and manipulation of on- and offline programming documentation - Programming environment browsers - facilities for discovery, identification of python classes and instances, other type objects, extensions, etc - Programming environment editors - facilities to articulate the things that browsers only let you view - Direct-manipulation ("visual") environment editors - etc Like many of the PSA SIG lists, this list is unmoderated and unrestricted. Anyone can join, and anyone can post messages here. Messages are archived and available for download. Other files can be made available this way, when useful. For details of what's available, send the word `index' in the body of a message to the Administrivia address, listed below. You will get a copy of this message if you send an `info' request to that address. To join, send a message with the word `subscribe' in the body to the Administrivia address. Post messages to the everyone on the list by using the List address. If you absolutely must to contact a human being, use the Owner address. ============================================================ List address: progenv-sig@python.org Administrivia: progenv-sig-request@python.org Owner: progenv-sig-owner@python.org ============================================================ ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From greg_stein@eshop.com Wed Nov 15 02:49:26 1995 From: greg_stein@eshop.com (Greg Stein) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:49:26 -0800 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal: 'progenv-sig' python programming environment SIG Message-ID: At 12:37 PM 11/14/95, Ken Manheimer wrote: >PROGENV-SIG: Discussion forum for Python programming-environment issues I would definitely like to see something like this get started. We are in the process of determining to what extent to use Python as part of our actual business. Part of this depends completely on the tools, documentation, and support available for the language. I've found Python's doc and support (in terms of a responsive community) to be more than adequate, but Python is currently a bit slim on development tools relative to commercial IDEs (Integrated Development Environment) such as the Think systems (haven't used that in about 4.5 years though :-), the Microsoft Visual C system (I use this only peripherally), or CodeWarrior (no exposure, just good second-hand ratings). I don't mind personally, but from a company-wide, group development perspective, a good portion of that team will need extensive tools to help them with their development. So... take the above, mix in my desire to actually see Python adopted, and it results in a strong desire to see active steps taken towards producing additional development tools. In other words: let's do it! Make a progenv-sig :-). -g Greg Stein, eShop Inc. greg_stein@eshop.com ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From greg_stein@eshop.com Mon Nov 20 19:44:15 1995 From: greg_stein@eshop.com (Greg Stein) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 11:44:15 -0800 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] progenv-sig status? Message-ID: Hey all... What is the current status of the progenv-sig? Is it just pending on people's time to do administrativia or are there some specific actions/discussions that need to take place? Just curious... -g Greg Stein, eShop Inc. greg_stein@eshop.com ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From klm@cnri.reston.va.us Fri Nov 10 20:59:29 1995 From: klm@cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:59:29 -0500 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal: 'progenv-sig' python programming environment SIG Message-ID: <9511102059.AA22742@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> The time is ripe... Shed your shackles, smite the oppressor! ... or, um, er, i mean, The time is ripe for for a programming environment SIG - in fact, it may be well past ripe. Several people have expressed interest in such an effort - i'm including several in the distribution of this message, who are not already on the psa-sc mailing list (far as i know), and have contributed materially to the python programming env. The topics would include tools, documentation, and other incidentals which facilitate the actual act of programming in python. Some near-term items (which just happen to be pet-issues of mine:) are: - an emacs gud-debugging-interface for python debugging (for which michael scharf has a good start, last i checked) - interfaces to the emacs oodb and other object-environment browser mechanisms (mark hammond seems to have a real nice one in his windows python port!) - grail extensions for supporting python programming and so forth. While the domain of this SIG might eventually coincide with that of the GUI group, eg in the topic of visual programming, it is would not be intended to focus on the gui mechanisms, but rather the programming tools that would capitalize upon them... I believe we don't have any voting mechanism for SIG creations, but rather a sanity-check from the meta-sig, and the requirement of a "shepherd", or whatever we called it, to take accoutability for the group. I'll be happy to be that person. ken manheimer klm@cnri.reston.va.us (703) 620-8990 x259 Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive, Suite 100 Reston, VA 22091 ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From klm@cnri.reston.va.us Tue Nov 14 17:37:52 1995 From: klm@cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:37:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal: 'progenv-sig' python programming environment SIG In-Reply-To: <9511131602.AA00391@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: > Ken, can you write up the two necessary blurbs and post them back to > meta-sig? See: > > http://www.python.org/sigs/guidelines.html PROGENV-SIG: Discussion forum for Python programming-environment issues The progenv-sig is intended for the discussion of the issues concerning the Python programming environment - the facilities, including editors, interpreter, debuggers, browsers, documentation, and so forth, instrumental in the actual act of Python programming. Discussions may cover use of and problems with existing facilities, as well as efforts to produce new tools and solutions. The overall orientation is to foster the development of this programming environment. Some examples of prospective topics are: - Development and integration of program editors, debuggers, profilers, browsers, etc - Systematic organization and manipulation of on- and offline programming documentation - Programming environment browsers - facilities for discovery, identification of python classes and instances, other type objects, extensions, etc - Programming environment editors - facilities to articulate the things that browsers only let you view - Direct-manipulation ("visual") environment editors - etc Like many of the PSA SIG lists, this list is unmoderated and unrestricted. Anyone can join, and anyone can post messages here. Messages are archived and available for download. Other files can be made available this way, when useful. For details of what's available, send the word `index' in the body of a message to the Administrivia address, listed below. You will get a copy of this message if you send an `info' request to that address. To join, send a message with the word `subscribe' in the body to the Administrivia address. Post messages to the everyone on the list by using the List address. If you absolutely must to contact a human being, use the Owner address. ============================================================ List address: progenv-sig@python.org Administrivia: progenv-sig-request@python.org Owner: progenv-sig-owner@python.org ============================================================ ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From greg_stein@eshop.com Wed Nov 15 02:49:26 1995 From: greg_stein@eshop.com (Greg Stein) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:49:26 -0800 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal: 'progenv-sig' python programming environment SIG Message-ID: At 12:37 PM 11/14/95, Ken Manheimer wrote: >PROGENV-SIG: Discussion forum for Python programming-environment issues I would definitely like to see something like this get started. We are in the process of determining to what extent to use Python as part of our actual business. Part of this depends completely on the tools, documentation, and support available for the language. I've found Python's doc and support (in terms of a responsive community) to be more than adequate, but Python is currently a bit slim on development tools relative to commercial IDEs (Integrated Development Environment) such as the Think systems (haven't used that in about 4.5 years though :-), the Microsoft Visual C system (I use this only peripherally), or CodeWarrior (no exposure, just good second-hand ratings). I don't mind personally, but from a company-wide, group development perspective, a good portion of that team will need extensive tools to help them with their development. So... take the above, mix in my desire to actually see Python adopted, and it results in a strong desire to see active steps taken towards producing additional development tools. In other words: let's do it! Make a progenv-sig :-). -g Greg Stein, eShop Inc. greg_stein@eshop.com ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From greg_stein@eshop.com Mon Nov 20 19:44:15 1995 From: greg_stein@eshop.com (Greg Stein) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 11:44:15 -0800 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] progenv-sig status? Message-ID: Hey all... What is the current status of the progenv-sig? Is it just pending on people's time to do administrativia or are there some specific actions/discussions that need to take place? Just curious... -g Greg Stein, eShop Inc. greg_stein@eshop.com ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org =================