From klm@python.org Sun Mar 8 17:56:30 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:56:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: testing update of production system Message-ID: <199803081756.MAA06501@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Looks like the email-addr anti-scraping mechanism works. How about the new footer, etc.? From klm@cnri.reston.va.us Tue Mar 10 17:00:05 1998 From: klm@cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:00:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: test Message-ID: <199803101700.MAA13535@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> ing - this shouldn t be going to out to the list membership, but if it does, please ignore! From klm@python.org Tue Mar 10 17:04:24 1998 From: klm@python.org (Maillist System) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:04:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: oh well:-) Message-ID: <199803101704.MAA00698@python.org> Sorry the intrusion - the last message (and this one) *did* go out to the list. I'm testing changes to the new archival mechanism, and inhibited the wrong thing (inhibited the old majordomo list membership), sigh. Ken From fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de, gandalf@lgcit.com Sat Mar 7 02:31:30 1998 From: fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de, gandalf@lgcit.com (Markus Fleck) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 03:31:30 +0100 Subject: YES: comp.lang.python.announce passed! :-) References: Message-ID: <3500B182.3D7D@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Hooray - it's finally there! :-) Jim Davis wrote: > The news.announce.newgroups moderator has posted the results for your > newsgroup proposals. Since it might be a while before the results show up > on your local newsserver, I thought I'd pass them on directly: > > comp.lang.python.announce results - 242 valid votes > > Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group > ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : ------------------------------------------- > 227 15 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.python.announce > 2 abstaining votes To: Andrew Kuchling Hi Andrew! I hope that you're the right person to help with the mail aliases for c.l.py.a. The results have only just been posted, and there is a mandatory 5-day period before the group will be created. Thus, in the next few days the following mail aliases resp. mailing lists should be created: (1) Alias: python-announce@python.org -> should forward c.l.py.a submissions to all of - gandalf@lgcit.com (Vladimir Ulogov) - fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de (Markus Fleck) - clpa@starship.skyport.net (c.l.py.a moderator account) (2) News->Mail (one-way) mailing list gateway: -> Request address: python-announce-list-request@python.org (-> Gateway mailing list name: python-announce-list@python.org) (-> Submissions address: python-announce@python.org, see above) Note: These addresses have already been published as designated "official" mailing list / gateway addresses. There should also be a web archive for all c.l.py.a postings somewhere at www.python.org. I wonder if the c.l.py.a gateway should reside at python.org or go with the other gateway at cwi.nl. What do you think? Many thanks, Markus. -- comp.lang.python.announce Moderator: Vladimir Ulogov Moderator: Markus Fleck Administrative contact address: python-announce@python.org From klm@python.org Sun Mar 8 18:45:59 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:45:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Impending meta-sig change - visible membership Message-ID: <199803081845.NAA06618@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> I've implemented the scheme we discussed, whereby membership email addrs are exposed such that they're not directly recognizable by web spiders - and spam address scrapers. I've switched over the meta-sig so that the membership is be exposed in this way. You still can suppress even this exposure of your own membership by setting your personal membership option - visit the listinfo web page (mentioned in the message footer, below) and click on your address, that'll take you to the options setting page. Plese let me know if you have any suggestions or concerns about this, and thanks for helping exercise the system! Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # Thanks for joining the PSA! # # http://www.python.org/psa/ # From klm@python.org Sun Mar 8 18:52:32 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:52:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Impending massive python.org maillists switchover to mailman Message-ID: <199803081852.NAA06621@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> After a little bit more development and testing i'm going to be switching over all the remaining python.org maillists to mailman. For those of you that are list administrators, you will soon (possibly tomorrow) be getting a message describing your "new" list - it won't actually be active, the old majordomo will still be the operating one. This will give you a chance to acquaint yourself with the interface and explore a bit, and see about customizing the list description via the interface. Soon after i will be shifting over the members - though the posting address will stay the same, they will be getting welcome notices informing them about their password and the interfaces for reviewing and changing their subscription options (as you did when i switched over meta-sig). You may want to give them a heads-up about this, and check your own options to see what options they will have. I will send another notice before switching over the users and putting the new lists into full commission... How exciting!-) Let me know if you have any questions, comments, etc. Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # Thanks for joining the PSA! # # http://www.python.org/psa/ # From klm@python.org Mon Mar 9 18:11:29 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:11:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] YES: comp.lang.python.announce passed! :-) In-Reply-To: <3500B182.3D7D@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Markus Fleck wrote: > Hooray - it's finally there! :-) Ok! > To: Andrew Kuchling > > Hi Andrew! > > I hope that you're the right person to help with the mail > aliases for c.l.py.a. The results have only just been posted, > and there is a mandatory 5-day period before the group will > be created. Thus, in the next few days the following mail > aliases resp. mailing lists should be created: Markus, i'm the one to talk to. I'll create the mail list and add the addresses you mention as list managers, you'll be seeing a "welcome to your new list" message about it shortly. > [...] > There should also be a web archive for all c.l.py.a postings > somewhere at www.python.org. An archive comes with the maillist. Currently the archives are public or disabled - perhaps public is ok in this case. In any case, the next item on our agenda for mailman/pipermail is provision for private archives, which we hope to have going, as time allows, in the next week or two. > I wonder if the c.l.py.a gateway should reside at python.org > or go with the other gateway at cwi.nl. What do you think? I do not know - i have not played with a news to mail gateway, and i do not handle the news provisions here, so it might be better to base the gateway elsewhere. I'm glad to see comp.lang.python.announce launching! Contact me directly so we can iron out any details... Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # Thanks for joining the PSA! # # http://www.python.org/psa/ # From friedrich@pythonpros.com Thu Mar 12 16:51:27 1998 From: friedrich@pythonpros.com (Robin Friedrich) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:51:27 -0600 Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> Message-ID: <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Paul Prescod wrote: > (BTW, with so much XML/SGML activity > projected for the next few months, I think we really should have a > mailing list or SIG for now, I'll keep doc-sig in the loop as I was > instructed the last time we discuss this stuff) There is apparently a healthy interest in a concentrated effort to make Python's XML support strong and compelling. PSA SIG creation criteria would be met if there were a champion and a short write-up as to the goals and some closure criterion (terminus). The new mailman system would support it easily. Since there are several SIGs already we have some options. This is a proceedural issue only; I don't see any technical problems with any option. 1) Exhume the web-sig for the XML discussions as it is a W3C technology. (People interested only in SGML may object.) 2) Use the string-sig. (even though I would argue it's better used for the unicode discussions, and the like) 3) Use the doc-sig. (since we are talking about documentation technology, n.b. it was created to discuss Python documentation efforts and tools for documenting python programs.) 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. 5) Create an SGML oriented sig which includes the XML effort. 6) None of the above. use comp.lang.python [not that this is a democracy ---- this is a poll not a vote] From bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Barry A. Warsaw) Thu Mar 12 17:00:49 1998 From: bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:00:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <13576.4848.229382.582424@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> >>>>> "RF" == Robin Friedrich writes: I'm not religious on any of the choices, but my preferences would be RF> 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python RF> issues. Since the Unicode work seems to be firing up the string-sig of late, it might be better to split the two technical tracks up. An xml-sig with a narrow focus, hard deliverables, and known termination criteria seems like the right approach to me. web-sig is less appropriate since XML has usefulness outside the Web community. doc-sig is less appropriate because we're not (yet) talking about how to convert or write new Python documentation in XML. Feel free (anyone) to volunteer your championhood and write up a mission statement. -Barry From akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Thu Mar 12 17:31:55 1998 From: akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Andrew Kuchling) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:31:55 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts In-Reply-To: <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <199803121731.MAA25047@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Robin Friedrich writes: >4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. >5) Create an SGML oriented sig which includes the XML effort. Option 6) Create an informal mailing list on one of the free hosting services. Anyway, I'd be willing to act as champion for an XML or SGML-SIG (preferably the former, since the target is smaller), write the mission statement, maintain a status Web page similar to the String-SIG's, etc. The wrap-up date could be set to June '98 (changeable later), and the deliverables would be those listed in an earlier e-mail of mine. Before doing that, though, I'd like to hear from Michael McLay, who's responsible for the Doc-SIG, whether he considers XML to be on-topic there. If the Doc-SIG is OK, then we wouldn't need a separate SIG. If Michael doesn't like the idea, I'll write up a mission statement for the XML-SIG and post it. Michael? A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ I had it in me to be the Pierce Brosnan of my generation. -- Vincent Me's past career plans in EGYPT #1 From klm@python.org Thu Mar 12 17:31:54 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:31:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts In-Reply-To: <13576.4848.229382.582424@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "RF" == Robin Friedrich writes: > > I'm not religious on any of the choices, but my preferences would be > > RF> 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python > RF> issues. I'm quite inclined to agree with this. I certainly have an impression of some strong impetus out there for an xml-focused sig, so i imagine the hurdle of having a champion step forward and produce a mission is not too difficult. (Prospective champions, keep in mind that the burden of the mission is not to corner anyone into committing to a tight time frame for some kind of daunting deliverable, but rather to express a firm focus for the sig, with specific direction, and ideally, directed milestones to help guide the way. At least, that's my sense of it.) > doc-sig is less appropriate because we're not (yet) talking about how > to convert or write new Python documentation in XML. Of all the other alternatives, i actually could see broadening the agenda for the doc-sig, but (1) it really would have to fit with the doc-sig champion's agenda, formalisms aside, and (2) i don't see a need or great benefit in doing this (except for people looking for the sig doing xml work, and hitting doc-sig first in the alphabetized list, and naturally assuming that's where the work is). Ken (I would recommend removing the string-sig from further followup, since this seems like a meta-sig issue - unless someone strongly feels the string-sig is the right place for xml work - i don't.) From jim.fulton@Digicool.com Thu Mar 12 17:50:33 1998 From: jim.fulton@Digicool.com (Jim Fulton) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:50:33 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <35082069.72CB@digicool.com> Robin Friedrich wrote: > > 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. I favor this. XML has applications far beyond Web applicatiosn and generation of documentation. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (888) 344-4332 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats. From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <199803121835.NAA04895@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Robin Friedrich writes: > 1) Exhume the web-sig for the XML discussions as it is a W3C technology. > (People interested only in SGML may object.) Not just SGML people, but also XML people that aren't interested, or only peripherally interested, in Web applications. > 2) Use the string-sig. (even though I would argue it's better used for the > unicode discussions, and the like) I could live with this, but I think it belongs to a different abstraction layer. > 3) Use the doc-sig. (since we are talking about documentation technology, > n.b. it was created to discuss Python documentation efforts and tools for Marginally tolerable, but off topic enough I'd rather not. There is no effort that I'm aware of to use XML for Python documentation. (Which is different from the answer you get after s/XML/SGML/g. ... Oops, sorry, I had to use P*rl recently. ;-( ) > 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. This would be my preference at this point, actually, if the level of interest (hopefully *not* level of traffic!) will be maintained. > 5) Create an SGML oriented sig which includes the XML effort. Could be done, but I don't think anyone's brought up any particular SGML deliverables. > 6) None of the above. use comp.lang.python This would not be acceptable. Andrew: You proposed a termination / final delivery date of June '98; I would make it Dec. Some of us have outside issues (like kids) that make time scales change substantially. To get modules written, tested & documented actually requires a substantial amout of time for us old slowpokes. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake@cnri.reston.va.us Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive Reston, VA 20191 From akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Thu Mar 12 21:45:38 1998 From: akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Andrew Kuchling) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:45:38 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement Message-ID: <199803122145.QAA01694@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Comments? (I've pushed the wrap-up date back to September, but not too far back; time is of the essence if we don't want Java and Perl to eat our lunch. That date can always be extended if we're not finished by then, of course.) XML-SIG: A Special Interest Group for XML Processing in Python This list has been created to provide a forum for discussion and implementation of the tools needed to make Python an excellent choice for XML processing. XML is the 'Extensible Markup Language', a data format for structured document interchange. It seems to have considerable momentum behind it, and will assume progressively greater importance over the next few years. With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. About this list: Wrap-up date: September 1998. This date may be extended if the SIG community decides that more work is required. A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Shadwell hated all southerners and, by inference, was standing at the North Pole. -- Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, _Good Omens_ From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <199803122145.QAA01694@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <199803122150.QAA07504@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Andrew Kuchling writes: > Comments? (I've pushed the wrap-up date back to September, but not > too far back; time is of the essence if we don't want Java and Perl to Add the list of deliverables as proposed in your earlier message. I seem to recall that Paul Prescod had presented a mission statement with his proposal for an SGML SIG; have you looked at that? Some of it may or may not apply; I don't remember the content of the text. With this in mind, I'm basically in favor of SIG creation. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake@cnri.reston.va.us Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive Reston, VA 20191 From Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com Thu Mar 12 21:55:57 1998 From: Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com (Friedrich, Robin K) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:55:57 -0600 Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement Message-ID: Fair enough. Ken, wanna make this the first list to go full time on mailman? (Otherwise I volunteer the string-sig. --- mailman's so kewl!) From klm@python.org Thu Mar 12 22:36:09 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:36:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Friedrich, Robin K wrote: > Fair enough. Ken, wanna make this the first list to go full time on > mailman? > (Otherwise I volunteer the string-sig. --- mailman's so kewl!) I'm also in favor of creating the SIG as proposed. We should at least wait a day for more input, but i see no problems with it at this point. > Fair enough. Ken, wanna make this the first list to go full time on > mailman? Not quite the first - the meta sig has been the first sig on mailman: > ------------------------------------------------------ > Meta-sig maillist - Meta-sig@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/meta-sig (But any new sigs definitely will be on mailman...) (I'm just looking for a higher volume sig to try, and it looks like the matrix sig will be it...) Ken From papresco@technologist.com Thu Mar 12 23:12:11 1998 From: papresco@technologist.com (Paul Prescod) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement Message-ID: <199803122351.SAA22289@python.org> Fred L. Drake wrote: > Add the list of deliverables as proposed in your earlier message. > I seem to recall that Paul Prescod had presented a mission statement > with his proposal for an SGML SIG; have you looked at that? Here's my proposal again. Perhaps some of it will be relevant: > I propose to create an SGML sig with an explicit 6 month time to live > and an option for renewal at that point. > > SGML-SIG: A Special Interest Group on APIs and software for SGML/XML > processing > ---- > Blurb: > > This SIG exists in order to discuss classes, interfaces and software > for the processing of SGML documents (including the XML subset). > > For more information on the SIG's mandate, see > > http://***not yet set up see below*** > > About this list: Additions and deletions are all automated via > Majordomo. For details, send the word `help' in the body of a mail > message to the Administrivia address given below. The subscription > policy is `open', meaning you can add or delete yourself at any time, > but you cannot add or delete anyone else without approval. > > This list is unmoderated and unrestricted. This means that anybody > can post messages to the list. Messages are archived and available > for download, as are perhaps other useful files. For details, send > the word `index' in the body of a message to the Administrivia > address. > > Post messages to the everyone on the list by using the List address. > > If you absolutely must to contact a human being, use the Owner > address. > > ---- > Mandate: > > This list exists in order to discuss classes, interfaces and software > for the processing of SGML documents (including the XML subset). > > Concrete goals of the first mandate should include: > > * Python version of the World Wide Web Consortium "Document Object > Model" API (this should be a straightforward translation of IDL to > Python) > > * Development of Python-specific event based and tree APIs for > processing of SGML documents. (perhaps inspired by similar efforts in > the Java or C++ worlds and the existing Python SGML processing packages) > > * Development of a validating XML parser that would serve to make XML > competitive in XML processing. > > * Development of a filter for the output of NSGMLS that generates the > events defined in our API. > > Longer range goals might include: > > * Embedding of Python into James Clark's C++ SP library. > * Wrapping of C++ SP and Grove API with our Python-specific APIs. > * Development of higher level tools for SGML processing (e.g. a > DSSSL-like tool, an "XML-Writer" library, etc.) Paul Prescod - http://itrc.uwaterloo.ca/~papresco Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes; Hearts starve as well as bodies; give us bread, but give us roses. - http://www.columbia.edu/~melissa/petronella/songs/bread-roses.html From akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Fri Mar 13 16:42:43 1998 From: akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Andrew Kuchling) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:42:43 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Revised XML-SIG mission statement Message-ID: <199803131642.LAA16285@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> I've revised the mission statement a bit, pushing the wrap-up back to September 1998 at Fred Drake's suggestion. I've also started putting together Web pages for the SIG status and for XML resources. Unless there are some objections to the mission statement, the list will probably be started early next week. ======= XML-SIG: A Special Interest Group for XML Processing in Python This list has been created to provide a forum for discussion and implementation of tools to make Python an excellent choice for XML processing. XML is the 'Extensible Markup Language', a data format for structured document interchange. It seems to have considerable momentum behind it, and will probably become very important over the next few years. Consult http://www.w3.org/XML/ for more information. With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. Concrete goals of the first mandate will probably include: * The glue code required to use existing Java XML parsers from JPython, and the appropriate documentation. * An XML-HOWTO which provides an overview of Python and XML processing. * A Python interface to James Clark's XMLTok parser. About this list: Wrap-up date: September 1998. This date may be extended if the SIG community decides that more work is required. A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin. -- Charles Darwin From gstein@exchange.microsoft.com Sat Mar 14 04:07:51 1998 From: gstein@exchange.microsoft.com (Greg Stein (Exchange)) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:07:51 -0800 Subject: [meta-sig] Revised XML-SIG mission statement Message-ID: <69D8143E230DD111B1D40000F848584001E542AC@ED> Calling out JPython, to the implicit exclusion of CPython, seems a bit weird to me. Revising it to simply say "interfacing with both Java and C-based parsers." Can we say anything about all the stuff that's been going on in the string-sig. -g -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Kuchling [SMTP:akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US] Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 8:43 AM To: meta-sig@python.org Subject: [meta-sig] Revised XML-SIG mission statement I've revised the mission statement a bit, pushing the wrap-up back to September 1998 at Fred Drake's suggestion. I've also started putting together Web pages for the SIG status and for XML resources. Unless there are some objections to the mission statement, the list will probably be started early next week. ======= XML-SIG: A Special Interest Group for XML Processing in Python This list has been created to provide a forum for discussion and implementation of tools to make Python an excellent choice for XML processing. XML is the 'Extensible Markup Language', a data format for structured document interchange. It seems to have considerable momentum behind it, and will probably become very important over the next few years. Consult http://www.w3.org/XML/ for more information. With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. Concrete goals of the first mandate will probably include: * The glue code required to use existing Java XML parsers from JPython, and the appropriate documentation. * An XML-HOWTO which provides an overview of Python and XML processing. * A Python interface to James Clark's XMLTok parser. About this list: Wrap-up date: September 1998. This date may be extended if the SIG community decides that more work is required. A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin. -- Charles Darwin ------------------------------------------------------ Meta-sig maillist - Meta-sig@python.org http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/meta-sig From python-announce@python.org Sat Mar 14 22:06:16 1998 From: python-announce@python.org (Markus Fleck) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:06:16 +0100 (MET) Subject: [meta-sig] ANNOUNCE: Introducing comp.lang.python.announce Message-ID: <199803142206.XAA18220@sokrates.informatik.uni-bonn.de> -------------------------------------------------------------------- To the readers of comp.lang.python resp. the python-list mailing list --------------------------------------------------------------------- * Introducing comp.lang.python.announce It's finally there - the comp.lang.python.announce newsgroup has been created on March 12, 1998. The number of affirmative votes for the creation of this newsgroup definitely was extraordinary (227:15). * Newsgroup moderation The newsgroup will be moderated by - Vladimir Ulogov and - Markus Fleck . We haven't yet established any formal guidelines for submissions to comp.lang.python.announce. What we know now is that there will be periodic postings of FAQ and WWW pointers and that an archive of all articles posted to comp.lang.python.announce (or short: c.l.py.a) will be made available. Eventually we would also like to provide something like Perl's periodic CPAN module list postings, based on past c.l.py.a submissions. * comp.lang.python.announce charter Comp.lang.python.announce is a moderated, low-volume newsgroup for announcements regarding the Python programming language, including: - new releases of the core distribution and contributed software - events (user group meetings, conferences, training, etc.) - periodic postings (FAQs) - other items of general interest to the Python community This is not a discussion group. Posts are expected to have Followup-To: headers set to "poster" or an appropriate newsgroup; posts that omit this header will have a Followup-To: comp.lang.python inserted by the moderator. * Preliminary guidelines for submissions (to be refined over time) (1) Please make sure that any announcements for new software give at least the following information: - Name of package - Version number - Author(s) - Purpose of package (Why would I need this software?) - History log of most recent changes (if applicable) - FTP/HTTP address of where the distribution can be downloaded, or pointer to a WWW page with further information on the package (in short, a URL) - Licensing terms of package (2) Commercial announcements (including offers for Python training) are generally acceptable, but (as mentioned in the c.l.py.a charter) should be relevant to a significant portion of the group's readers to finally be accepted for posting. The moderators reserve the right to reject individual postings. (You can still post to comp.lang.python if your posting doesn't satisfy submission criteria for c.l.py.a) (3) All submissions must be sent to the following address: python-announce@python.org * Mailing list gateway If you wish to receive comp.lang.python.announce postings via e-mail (perhaps because you do not have access to usenet news), you can subscribe to a receive-only mailing list called "python-announce-list" by sending an e-mail to python-announce-list-request@python.org that contains the word "subscribe" in the mail body. To unsubscribe, send a mail to the above address that contains the text "unsubscribe" in its body. (Many thanks to Sjoerd Mullender at CWI for setting up the mailing list!!!) * Finally I wish you (or us :) many interesting Python-related announcements for the time to come, Yours, Markus Fleck. -- //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Markus B Fleck - University of Bonn - CS Dept IV - UNIX administration Please send submissions for c.l.py.announce to python.announce@python.org \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ From klm@python.org Sun Mar 8 17:56:30 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:56:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: testing update of production system Message-ID: <199803081756.MAA06501@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Looks like the email-addr anti-scraping mechanism works. How about the new footer, etc.? From klm@cnri.reston.va.us Tue Mar 10 17:00:05 1998 From: klm@cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:00:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: test Message-ID: <199803101700.MAA13535@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> ing - this shouldn t be going to out to the list membership, but if it does, please ignore! From klm@python.org Tue Mar 10 17:04:24 1998 From: klm@python.org (Maillist System) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:04:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: oh well:-) Message-ID: <199803101704.MAA00698@python.org> Sorry the intrusion - the last message (and this one) *did* go out to the list. I'm testing changes to the new archival mechanism, and inhibited the wrong thing (inhibited the old majordomo list membership), sigh. Ken From fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de, gandalf@lgcit.com Sat Mar 7 02:31:30 1998 From: fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de, gandalf@lgcit.com (Markus Fleck) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 03:31:30 +0100 Subject: YES: comp.lang.python.announce passed! :-) References: Message-ID: <3500B182.3D7D@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Hooray - it's finally there! :-) Jim Davis wrote: > The news.announce.newgroups moderator has posted the results for your > newsgroup proposals. Since it might be a while before the results show up > on your local newsserver, I thought I'd pass them on directly: > > comp.lang.python.announce results - 242 valid votes > > Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group > ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : ------------------------------------------- > 227 15 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.python.announce > 2 abstaining votes To: Andrew Kuchling Hi Andrew! I hope that you're the right person to help with the mail aliases for c.l.py.a. The results have only just been posted, and there is a mandatory 5-day period before the group will be created. Thus, in the next few days the following mail aliases resp. mailing lists should be created: (1) Alias: python-announce@python.org -> should forward c.l.py.a submissions to all of - gandalf@lgcit.com (Vladimir Ulogov) - fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de (Markus Fleck) - clpa@starship.skyport.net (c.l.py.a moderator account) (2) News->Mail (one-way) mailing list gateway: -> Request address: python-announce-list-request@python.org (-> Gateway mailing list name: python-announce-list@python.org) (-> Submissions address: python-announce@python.org, see above) Note: These addresses have already been published as designated "official" mailing list / gateway addresses. There should also be a web archive for all c.l.py.a postings somewhere at www.python.org. I wonder if the c.l.py.a gateway should reside at python.org or go with the other gateway at cwi.nl. What do you think? Many thanks, Markus. -- comp.lang.python.announce Moderator: Vladimir Ulogov Moderator: Markus Fleck Administrative contact address: python-announce@python.org From klm@python.org Sun Mar 8 18:45:59 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:45:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Impending meta-sig change - visible membership Message-ID: <199803081845.NAA06618@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> I've implemented the scheme we discussed, whereby membership email addrs are exposed such that they're not directly recognizable by web spiders - and spam address scrapers. I've switched over the meta-sig so that the membership is be exposed in this way. You still can suppress even this exposure of your own membership by setting your personal membership option - visit the listinfo web page (mentioned in the message footer, below) and click on your address, that'll take you to the options setting page. Plese let me know if you have any suggestions or concerns about this, and thanks for helping exercise the system! Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # Thanks for joining the PSA! # # http://www.python.org/psa/ # From klm@python.org Sun Mar 8 18:52:32 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:52:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Impending massive python.org maillists switchover to mailman Message-ID: <199803081852.NAA06621@glyph.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> After a little bit more development and testing i'm going to be switching over all the remaining python.org maillists to mailman. For those of you that are list administrators, you will soon (possibly tomorrow) be getting a message describing your "new" list - it won't actually be active, the old majordomo will still be the operating one. This will give you a chance to acquaint yourself with the interface and explore a bit, and see about customizing the list description via the interface. Soon after i will be shifting over the members - though the posting address will stay the same, they will be getting welcome notices informing them about their password and the interfaces for reviewing and changing their subscription options (as you did when i switched over meta-sig). You may want to give them a heads-up about this, and check your own options to see what options they will have. I will send another notice before switching over the users and putting the new lists into full commission... How exciting!-) Let me know if you have any questions, comments, etc. Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # Thanks for joining the PSA! # # http://www.python.org/psa/ # From klm@python.org Mon Mar 9 18:11:29 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:11:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] YES: comp.lang.python.announce passed! :-) In-Reply-To: <3500B182.3D7D@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Markus Fleck wrote: > Hooray - it's finally there! :-) Ok! > To: Andrew Kuchling > > Hi Andrew! > > I hope that you're the right person to help with the mail > aliases for c.l.py.a. The results have only just been posted, > and there is a mandatory 5-day period before the group will > be created. Thus, in the next few days the following mail > aliases resp. mailing lists should be created: Markus, i'm the one to talk to. I'll create the mail list and add the addresses you mention as list managers, you'll be seeing a "welcome to your new list" message about it shortly. > [...] > There should also be a web archive for all c.l.py.a postings > somewhere at www.python.org. An archive comes with the maillist. Currently the archives are public or disabled - perhaps public is ok in this case. In any case, the next item on our agenda for mailman/pipermail is provision for private archives, which we hope to have going, as time allows, in the next week or two. > I wonder if the c.l.py.a gateway should reside at python.org > or go with the other gateway at cwi.nl. What do you think? I do not know - i have not played with a news to mail gateway, and i do not handle the news provisions here, so it might be better to base the gateway elsewhere. I'm glad to see comp.lang.python.announce launching! Contact me directly so we can iron out any details... Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # Thanks for joining the PSA! # # http://www.python.org/psa/ # From friedrich@pythonpros.com Thu Mar 12 16:51:27 1998 From: friedrich@pythonpros.com (Robin Friedrich) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:51:27 -0600 Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> Message-ID: <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Paul Prescod wrote: > (BTW, with so much XML/SGML activity > projected for the next few months, I think we really should have a > mailing list or SIG for now, I'll keep doc-sig in the loop as I was > instructed the last time we discuss this stuff) There is apparently a healthy interest in a concentrated effort to make Python's XML support strong and compelling. PSA SIG creation criteria would be met if there were a champion and a short write-up as to the goals and some closure criterion (terminus). The new mailman system would support it easily. Since there are several SIGs already we have some options. This is a proceedural issue only; I don't see any technical problems with any option. 1) Exhume the web-sig for the XML discussions as it is a W3C technology. (People interested only in SGML may object.) 2) Use the string-sig. (even though I would argue it's better used for the unicode discussions, and the like) 3) Use the doc-sig. (since we are talking about documentation technology, n.b. it was created to discuss Python documentation efforts and tools for documenting python programs.) 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. 5) Create an SGML oriented sig which includes the XML effort. 6) None of the above. use comp.lang.python [not that this is a democracy ---- this is a poll not a vote] From bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Barry A. Warsaw) Thu Mar 12 17:00:49 1998 From: bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:00:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <13576.4848.229382.582424@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> >>>>> "RF" == Robin Friedrich writes: I'm not religious on any of the choices, but my preferences would be RF> 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python RF> issues. Since the Unicode work seems to be firing up the string-sig of late, it might be better to split the two technical tracks up. An xml-sig with a narrow focus, hard deliverables, and known termination criteria seems like the right approach to me. web-sig is less appropriate since XML has usefulness outside the Web community. doc-sig is less appropriate because we're not (yet) talking about how to convert or write new Python documentation in XML. Feel free (anyone) to volunteer your championhood and write up a mission statement. -Barry From akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Thu Mar 12 17:31:55 1998 From: akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Andrew Kuchling) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:31:55 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts In-Reply-To: <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <199803121731.MAA25047@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Robin Friedrich writes: >4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. >5) Create an SGML oriented sig which includes the XML effort. Option 6) Create an informal mailing list on one of the free hosting services. Anyway, I'd be willing to act as champion for an XML or SGML-SIG (preferably the former, since the target is smaller), write the mission statement, maintain a status Web page similar to the String-SIG's, etc. The wrap-up date could be set to June '98 (changeable later), and the deliverables would be those listed in an earlier e-mail of mine. Before doing that, though, I'd like to hear from Michael McLay, who's responsible for the Doc-SIG, whether he considers XML to be on-topic there. If the Doc-SIG is OK, then we wouldn't need a separate SIG. If Michael doesn't like the idea, I'll write up a mission statement for the XML-SIG and post it. Michael? A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ I had it in me to be the Pierce Brosnan of my generation. -- Vincent Me's past career plans in EGYPT #1 From klm@python.org Thu Mar 12 17:31:54 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:31:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts In-Reply-To: <13576.4848.229382.582424@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "RF" == Robin Friedrich writes: > > I'm not religious on any of the choices, but my preferences would be > > RF> 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python > RF> issues. I'm quite inclined to agree with this. I certainly have an impression of some strong impetus out there for an xml-focused sig, so i imagine the hurdle of having a champion step forward and produce a mission is not too difficult. (Prospective champions, keep in mind that the burden of the mission is not to corner anyone into committing to a tight time frame for some kind of daunting deliverable, but rather to express a firm focus for the sig, with specific direction, and ideally, directed milestones to help guide the way. At least, that's my sense of it.) > doc-sig is less appropriate because we're not (yet) talking about how > to convert or write new Python documentation in XML. Of all the other alternatives, i actually could see broadening the agenda for the doc-sig, but (1) it really would have to fit with the doc-sig champion's agenda, formalisms aside, and (2) i don't see a need or great benefit in doing this (except for people looking for the sig doing xml work, and hitting doc-sig first in the alphabetized list, and naturally assuming that's where the work is). Ken (I would recommend removing the string-sig from further followup, since this seems like a meta-sig issue - unless someone strongly feels the string-sig is the right place for xml work - i don't.) From jim.fulton@Digicool.com Thu Mar 12 17:50:33 1998 From: jim.fulton@Digicool.com (Jim Fulton) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:50:33 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Poll: how to coordinate XML efforts References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <35082069.72CB@digicool.com> Robin Friedrich wrote: > > 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. I favor this. XML has applications far beyond Web applicatiosn and generation of documentation. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (888) 344-4332 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats. From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <01bd4daf$d533cfc0$f29b12c2@panik.pythonware.com> <3507FFD5.C8190CA4@technologist.com> <3508128F.DE95C171@pythonpros.com> Message-ID: <199803121835.NAA04895@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Robin Friedrich writes: > 1) Exhume the web-sig for the XML discussions as it is a W3C technology. > (People interested only in SGML may object.) Not just SGML people, but also XML people that aren't interested, or only peripherally interested, in Web applications. > 2) Use the string-sig. (even though I would argue it's better used for the > unicode discussions, and the like) I could live with this, but I think it belongs to a different abstraction layer. > 3) Use the doc-sig. (since we are talking about documentation technology, > n.b. it was created to discuss Python documentation efforts and tools for Marginally tolerable, but off topic enough I'd rather not. There is no effort that I'm aware of to use XML for Python documentation. (Which is different from the answer you get after s/XML/SGML/g. ... Oops, sorry, I had to use P*rl recently. ;-( ) > 4) Create the XML-sig tightly focused on the XML/Python issues. This would be my preference at this point, actually, if the level of interest (hopefully *not* level of traffic!) will be maintained. > 5) Create an SGML oriented sig which includes the XML effort. Could be done, but I don't think anyone's brought up any particular SGML deliverables. > 6) None of the above. use comp.lang.python This would not be acceptable. Andrew: You proposed a termination / final delivery date of June '98; I would make it Dec. Some of us have outside issues (like kids) that make time scales change substantially. To get modules written, tested & documented actually requires a substantial amout of time for us old slowpokes. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake@cnri.reston.va.us Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive Reston, VA 20191 From akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Thu Mar 12 21:45:38 1998 From: akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Andrew Kuchling) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:45:38 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement Message-ID: <199803122145.QAA01694@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Comments? (I've pushed the wrap-up date back to September, but not too far back; time is of the essence if we don't want Java and Perl to eat our lunch. That date can always be extended if we're not finished by then, of course.) XML-SIG: A Special Interest Group for XML Processing in Python This list has been created to provide a forum for discussion and implementation of the tools needed to make Python an excellent choice for XML processing. XML is the 'Extensible Markup Language', a data format for structured document interchange. It seems to have considerable momentum behind it, and will assume progressively greater importance over the next few years. With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. About this list: Wrap-up date: September 1998. This date may be extended if the SIG community decides that more work is required. A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Shadwell hated all southerners and, by inference, was standing at the North Pole. -- Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, _Good Omens_ From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <199803122145.QAA01694@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <199803122150.QAA07504@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Andrew Kuchling writes: > Comments? (I've pushed the wrap-up date back to September, but not > too far back; time is of the essence if we don't want Java and Perl to Add the list of deliverables as proposed in your earlier message. I seem to recall that Paul Prescod had presented a mission statement with his proposal for an SGML SIG; have you looked at that? Some of it may or may not apply; I don't remember the content of the text. With this in mind, I'm basically in favor of SIG creation. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake@cnri.reston.va.us Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive Reston, VA 20191 From Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com Thu Mar 12 21:55:57 1998 From: Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com (Friedrich, Robin K) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:55:57 -0600 Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement Message-ID: Fair enough. Ken, wanna make this the first list to go full time on mailman? (Otherwise I volunteer the string-sig. --- mailman's so kewl!) From klm@python.org Thu Mar 12 22:36:09 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:36:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Friedrich, Robin K wrote: > Fair enough. Ken, wanna make this the first list to go full time on > mailman? > (Otherwise I volunteer the string-sig. --- mailman's so kewl!) I'm also in favor of creating the SIG as proposed. We should at least wait a day for more input, but i see no problems with it at this point. > Fair enough. Ken, wanna make this the first list to go full time on > mailman? Not quite the first - the meta sig has been the first sig on mailman: > ------------------------------------------------------ > Meta-sig maillist - Meta-sig@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/meta-sig (But any new sigs definitely will be on mailman...) (I'm just looking for a higher volume sig to try, and it looks like the matrix sig will be it...) Ken From papresco@technologist.com Thu Mar 12 23:12:11 1998 From: papresco@technologist.com (Paul Prescod) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] XML-SIG: Mission statement Message-ID: <199803122351.SAA22289@python.org> Fred L. Drake wrote: > Add the list of deliverables as proposed in your earlier message. > I seem to recall that Paul Prescod had presented a mission statement > with his proposal for an SGML SIG; have you looked at that? Here's my proposal again. Perhaps some of it will be relevant: > I propose to create an SGML sig with an explicit 6 month time to live > and an option for renewal at that point. > > SGML-SIG: A Special Interest Group on APIs and software for SGML/XML > processing > ---- > Blurb: > > This SIG exists in order to discuss classes, interfaces and software > for the processing of SGML documents (including the XML subset). > > For more information on the SIG's mandate, see > > http://***not yet set up see below*** > > About this list: Additions and deletions are all automated via > Majordomo. For details, send the word `help' in the body of a mail > message to the Administrivia address given below. The subscription > policy is `open', meaning you can add or delete yourself at any time, > but you cannot add or delete anyone else without approval. > > This list is unmoderated and unrestricted. This means that anybody > can post messages to the list. Messages are archived and available > for download, as are perhaps other useful files. For details, send > the word `index' in the body of a message to the Administrivia > address. > > Post messages to the everyone on the list by using the List address. > > If you absolutely must to contact a human being, use the Owner > address. > > ---- > Mandate: > > This list exists in order to discuss classes, interfaces and software > for the processing of SGML documents (including the XML subset). > > Concrete goals of the first mandate should include: > > * Python version of the World Wide Web Consortium "Document Object > Model" API (this should be a straightforward translation of IDL to > Python) > > * Development of Python-specific event based and tree APIs for > processing of SGML documents. (perhaps inspired by similar efforts in > the Java or C++ worlds and the existing Python SGML processing packages) > > * Development of a validating XML parser that would serve to make XML > competitive in XML processing. > > * Development of a filter for the output of NSGMLS that generates the > events defined in our API. > > Longer range goals might include: > > * Embedding of Python into James Clark's C++ SP library. > * Wrapping of C++ SP and Grove API with our Python-specific APIs. > * Development of higher level tools for SGML processing (e.g. a > DSSSL-like tool, an "XML-Writer" library, etc.) Paul Prescod - http://itrc.uwaterloo.ca/~papresco Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes; Hearts starve as well as bodies; give us bread, but give us roses. - http://www.columbia.edu/~melissa/petronella/songs/bread-roses.html From akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Fri Mar 13 16:42:43 1998 From: akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Andrew Kuchling) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:42:43 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Revised XML-SIG mission statement Message-ID: <199803131642.LAA16285@newcnri.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> I've revised the mission statement a bit, pushing the wrap-up back to September 1998 at Fred Drake's suggestion. I've also started putting together Web pages for the SIG status and for XML resources. Unless there are some objections to the mission statement, the list will probably be started early next week. ======= XML-SIG: A Special Interest Group for XML Processing in Python This list has been created to provide a forum for discussion and implementation of tools to make Python an excellent choice for XML processing. XML is the 'Extensible Markup Language', a data format for structured document interchange. It seems to have considerable momentum behind it, and will probably become very important over the next few years. Consult http://www.w3.org/XML/ for more information. With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. Concrete goals of the first mandate will probably include: * The glue code required to use existing Java XML parsers from JPython, and the appropriate documentation. * An XML-HOWTO which provides an overview of Python and XML processing. * A Python interface to James Clark's XMLTok parser. About this list: Wrap-up date: September 1998. This date may be extended if the SIG community decides that more work is required. A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin. -- Charles Darwin From gstein@exchange.microsoft.com Sat Mar 14 04:07:51 1998 From: gstein@exchange.microsoft.com (Greg Stein (Exchange)) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:07:51 -0800 Subject: [meta-sig] Revised XML-SIG mission statement Message-ID: <69D8143E230DD111B1D40000F848584001E542AC@ED> Calling out JPython, to the implicit exclusion of CPython, seems a bit weird to me. Revising it to simply say "interfacing with both Java and C-based parsers." Can we say anything about all the stuff that's been going on in the string-sig. -g -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Kuchling [SMTP:akuchlin@CNRI.Reston.Va.US] Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 8:43 AM To: meta-sig@python.org Subject: [meta-sig] Revised XML-SIG mission statement I've revised the mission statement a bit, pushing the wrap-up back to September 1998 at Fred Drake's suggestion. I've also started putting together Web pages for the SIG status and for XML resources. Unless there are some objections to the mission statement, the list will probably be started early next week. ======= XML-SIG: A Special Interest Group for XML Processing in Python This list has been created to provide a forum for discussion and implementation of tools to make Python an excellent choice for XML processing. XML is the 'Extensible Markup Language', a data format for structured document interchange. It seems to have considerable momentum behind it, and will probably become very important over the next few years. Consult http://www.w3.org/XML/ for more information. With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. Concrete goals of the first mandate will probably include: * The glue code required to use existing Java XML parsers from JPython, and the appropriate documentation. * An XML-HOWTO which provides an overview of Python and XML processing. * A Python interface to James Clark's XMLTok parser. About this list: Wrap-up date: September 1998. This date may be extended if the SIG community decides that more work is required. A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin. -- Charles Darwin ------------------------------------------------------ Meta-sig maillist - Meta-sig@python.org http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/meta-sig From python-announce@python.org Sat Mar 14 22:06:16 1998 From: python-announce@python.org (Markus Fleck) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:06:16 +0100 (MET) Subject: [meta-sig] ANNOUNCE: Introducing comp.lang.python.announce Message-ID: <199803142206.XAA18220@sokrates.informatik.uni-bonn.de> -------------------------------------------------------------------- To the readers of comp.lang.python resp. the python-list mailing list --------------------------------------------------------------------- * Introducing comp.lang.python.announce It's finally there - the comp.lang.python.announce newsgroup has been created on March 12, 1998. The number of affirmative votes for the creation of this newsgroup definitely was extraordinary (227:15). * Newsgroup moderation The newsgroup will be moderated by - Vladimir Ulogov and - Markus Fleck . We haven't yet established any formal guidelines for submissions to comp.lang.python.announce. What we know now is that there will be periodic postings of FAQ and WWW pointers and that an archive of all articles posted to comp.lang.python.announce (or short: c.l.py.a) will be made available. Eventually we would also like to provide something like Perl's periodic CPAN module list postings, based on past c.l.py.a submissions. * comp.lang.python.announce charter Comp.lang.python.announce is a moderated, low-volume newsgroup for announcements regarding the Python programming language, including: - new releases of the core distribution and contributed software - events (user group meetings, conferences, training, etc.) - periodic postings (FAQs) - other items of general interest to the Python community This is not a discussion group. Posts are expected to have Followup-To: headers set to "poster" or an appropriate newsgroup; posts that omit this header will have a Followup-To: comp.lang.python inserted by the moderator. * Preliminary guidelines for submissions (to be refined over time) (1) Please make sure that any announcements for new software give at least the following information: - Name of package - Version number - Author(s) - Purpose of package (Why would I need this software?) - History log of most recent changes (if applicable) - FTP/HTTP address of where the distribution can be downloaded, or pointer to a WWW page with further information on the package (in short, a URL) - Licensing terms of package (2) Commercial announcements (including offers for Python training) are generally acceptable, but (as mentioned in the c.l.py.a charter) should be relevant to a significant portion of the group's readers to finally be accepted for posting. The moderators reserve the right to reject individual postings. (You can still post to comp.lang.python if your posting doesn't satisfy submission criteria for c.l.py.a) (3) All submissions must be sent to the following address: python-announce@python.org * Mailing list gateway If you wish to receive comp.lang.python.announce postings via e-mail (perhaps because you do not have access to usenet news), you can subscribe to a receive-only mailing list called "python-announce-list" by sending an e-mail to python-announce-list-request@python.org that contains the word "subscribe" in the mail body. To unsubscribe, send a mail to the above address that contains the text "unsubscribe" in its body. (Many thanks to Sjoerd Mullender at CWI for setting up the mailing list!!!) * Finally I wish you (or us :) many interesting Python-related announcements for the time to come, Yours, Markus Fleck. -- //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Markus B Fleck - University of Bonn - CS Dept IV - UNIX administration Please send submissions for c.l.py.announce to python.announce@python.org \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\