[meta-sig] Re: [Python-Dev] SIG: python-lang

Jim Fulton jim@digicool.com
Wed, 31 May 2000 14:32:59 -0400


Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "PP" == Paul Prescod <paul@prescod.net> writes:
> 
>   PP> Well, you admit that yhou don't read python-list, right? Most of
>   PP> us don't, most of the time. Instead we have important
>   PP> discussions about the language's future on python-dev, where
>   PP> most of the Python community cannot participate. I'll say it
>   PP> flat out: I'm uncomfortable with that. I did not include
>   PP> meta-sig because (or python-list) because my issue is really
>   PP> with the accidental elitism of the python-dev setup. If
>   PP> python-dev participants do not agree to have important
>   PP> linguistic discussions in an open forum then setting up the
>   PP> forum is a waste of time. That's why I'm feeling people here out
>   PP> first.
> 
> I agree that there is a problem, but I don't think we'll do any good
> by setting up another list.  There are two parts to the problem.
> First, we may exclude some people from participating in useful
> discussions.  Second, we miss out on discussions that do take place on
> c.l.py.
> 
> I'm actually more worried about the second.  It's been a while since I
> read c.l.py and I'm occasionally disappointed to miss out on
> seemingly interesting threads.  On the other hand, there is no way I
> could manage to read or even filter the volume on that list.

I'm even worse. I don't even have time to filter Python-Dev. :(
(I just bought more memory for my Palm so that I can download
the archives and read them in spare moments ..... Waaaaaa)

> I would welcome a solution that made it easier for people to take
> occasional sips of c.l.py instead of drinking from the firehose.
> Thinking out loud: Perhaps a moderated mailing list that represents
> the python-dev- filtered version of the regular conversation.  If the
> moderation could be distributed efficiently over many people, it might
> work.  Perhaps some variant of Ping's issue tracker could be used to
> track interesting threads.

I'm extremely hopeful about something called Wiki. Rather than
being based on a model of threaded discusssions, which tend to
become overwhelming. With limited time, it's really hard, at least
for me, to extract the signal from the noize in a large thread.

Wiki is based on shared colaboratively 
written documents. See http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki and 
http://joyful.com/zwiki/FrontPage. There are alot of Wiki
implementations and we are working pretty hard to make Zope's
(ZWiki, a Wiki clone written by Simon Michael, who, BTW, is
not a DC employee :) one of the best. We are doing this because we 
are relying heavily on Wikis to coordinate Zope development
(e.g. http://www.zope.org/WikiCentral/FrontPage).

It's wild and wacky, but amazingly productive (although 
it can be improved and will be). Check it out.
 
I think that Wikis could help the Python community alot.
It's at least something to keep an eye on.

Jim

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