[Moin-user] Discussions related to MoinMaster pages?

Arp moin.askthem at gmail.com
Thu Feb 23 10:04:05 EST 2006

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Oops - replied this to Thilo instead of to the list...

In the mean time I restructured
to include some of these ideas for discussion/documentation and added
some preliminary items to maybe "vote" on or give opinions.

New/more ideas and points of view by others would be greatly appreciated too ;o)

On 2/22/06, Thilo Pfennig <tpfennig at gmail.com> wrote:

> > In the case of MoinMaster pages for example these links would probably
> > have to be filtered out at distribution time which is less
> I don't think that they have to be filtered out if they are InterWiki links.

To solve the 'problem' of finding related discussions/comments/other
for the MoinMaster pages it would be fine by me if the MoinMoin
community here could agree on 'allowing' a list of links to related
pages on MoinMaster Help* pages etc.
The system that is in place now (one HelpErrata page for all and
discussion in the mailing list ?? is that it??) to me seems to be
somewhat limited, especially for larger discussions that would be
natural around the initial stages of creating new pages/ideas etc.

But for 'production' wikis I would much rather find a serious standard
solution to integrate a discussion/comments system...

> > True, and brave editting should still be encouraged, but not all discussions or
> > comments really 'improve' a page and indeed usually do make it less
> > neat/legible.
> I would agree if we would talk about some pages. Talking about every
> page I would say that  it is ok, that not every editing is an
> improvement. A good page is a good compromise. Taht does need social
> skills than can not be replaced by any invention.

Of course, and  we could go into lengthy discussions of WikiNature or
WikiPhilosophy and such and get radically religious about such things
;o) and maybe I'm trying to abuse the WikiThing (tm) by trying to use
it as a sort of content management system, or community system to
create _nice_ documentation and educational materials, but I think I'm
probably not alone at this and inline discussions/comments can really
mess up a page and require regular maintenance and cleaning (often by
others that did not create the discussion mess )

> >  It also makes it harder to suppress these links in a
> > 'printable' version of such a page.
> Well, you never know what people like to be printed.

I'm thinking more along the lines of using the possibilities thas CSS
offers to creat different representations of the page depending on
output medium (and having some handles in the raw text of a page to
indicate blocks for printing/screen etc). That's another issue
however, although it _might_ be solved in similar ways (see below)

> > Maybe instead of using visible/clickable links or Category markers a
> > system could be deviced that is based on meta-tags in the comments on
> > the headers of a page, but this would surely have to be supported by
> > code of some sort.
> Meta data has beend discussed in http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MetaDataInMoin

Thanks a lot for that link! I'll have to seriously look at this and
probably the possibilities of using the DocBook possibilities that
newer Moin versions seem to offer. But i'll have to find some time for
that as it doesn't seem trivial to restructure a wiki around this.

Glancing at it quickly it comes to mind that using some of the
suggested MetaData mechanisms (or even DocBook) it should be possible
to tag sections in a page as being a 'comment' or 'discussion' or
whatever and then have a choice in the user interface to (not) display
these and maybe have a choice to display these either inline or all at
the bottom of the page or so.
A similar hook could then be used to have 'non printable' sections in
a page (for example lists with links or category markers or
interactive forms or such) or maybe 'print only' sections so a page
could be structured to be displayed either heavily
hypertexted/interactive or 'printable' depending on output medium.

All those are maybe _very_ neat ideas and can probably have many many
different technical implementations (maybe having a seperate subpage
for every 'discussion thread' and optionally include these or not). It
would probably require rather large changes to the core Moin code or
at least a complex set of Actions/Macros whatever. Not trivial it

In some way that could certainly be prefered over something 'Quick and
Dirty' as long as the idea is well thought about and it is clear many
people like the idea. But my guess is that it certainly won't be


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