[Moin-user] Question about underlay pages in 1.9.3

Joseph Kang joe.kang at netex.com
Wed Feb 4 18:39:44 EST 2015

Thanks for the reply, Paul. Your presumption is correct. I'm using the tar.gz distributions as downloaded from moinmo.in and I did perform a "moin maint cleancache" as part of the upgrade process.

I happen to have a test machine that's a clone of the production system. I just deleted the underlay directory in my test wiki instance directory; copied /usr/share/moin/underlay into my wiki instance subdirectory; went through the process of installing the language packs all over again; and issued a "moin maint cleancache". The packs I chose were "all_system_pages", "all_help_pages", and "admin_pages". When I browse to this test instance and view the "HelpOnFormatting" page, it still shows the version that says the markup is "[[BR]]".

I did some digging in the file system and noticed that the "/usr/share/moin/<wiki-instance>/data/pages" subdirectory has the same directories that exists in "underlay" (with older file mod time/dates) in addition to the directories for our wiki's own content. I can only guess that it's pulling the outdated HelpOnFormatting page from there. As part of my upgrades, I always made sure I issued the "moin migration data" command. As far as I recall, I never saw any errors from them. 

Should the pages that are in "underlay" also exist in "data"? Or is that an artifact from running a really old version of MoinMoin and migrating it to newer versions? 

It may be helpful to provide the full list of versions I upgraded to/through: 1.187 (as shown on the page footer with "show_version=1" set in wikiconfig.py), 1.3.5, 1.5.3, 1.5.9, 1.6.0, and finally 1.9.3

Thanks again for your time and assistance. (Sorry about the top reply vs. inline. Stuck using Outlook.)

-Joseph K.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Boddie [mailto:paul at boddie.org.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 4:52 PM
To: moin-user at lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Moin-user] Question about underlay pages in 1.9.3

On Wednesday 4. February 2015 19.21.50 Joseph Kang wrote:
> Hi, all. I'm new to the list. Our company has been running an internal 
> MoinMoin wiki for several years now but it wasn't actively maintained 
> until recently. We recently went through a migration from 1.187 to 1.9.3.
> If anyone needs to know the specific versions I upgraded to in-between 
> the start and end, I'd be happy to provide that info.

1.187 sounds very old and not particularly Moin-like as a version number, but your problem description does seem to confirm that it's certainly an old,
pre-1.6 version you're using.

> The question I have is about the underlay pages that got installed 
> with 1.9.3. I noticed that at some point, the markup for inserting a 
> line break changed from [[BR]] to <<BR>>. However the HelpOnFormatting 
> page that got installed through the 1.9.3 LanguageSetup process shows 
> that it's still [[BR]]. As far as I can tell, I am running with the 
> underlay pages that were installed through 1.9.3. Is this the correct 
> version of HelpOnFormatting for this release (mistakes and all)? I 
> noticed that the layout and content on 
> https://moinmo.in/HelpOnFormatting is completely different. I assume that's from the 1.9.8 version, correct?

The markup changed with Moin 1.6, if I recall correctly, and the 1.9.3 pages should describe the modern markup. Maybe the old help pages have been cached, although I would have expected a "moin maint cleancache" to have been executed during an upgrade, depending on how the upgrade was done.

> I cannot upgrade to 1.9.8 as our wiki is running on a major Linux 
> distribution that, while current in other aspects, is only supporting 
> Python 2.4 as the official, supported release.

I would imagine that 1.9.3 with backported security fixes would be good enough, although the issue then is who is responsible for backporting those fixes. I imagine that the vendor doesn't provide the Moin package for 1.9.3 that you're intending to use (that is, you're using the source package from moinmo.in and not an OS vendor package) and thus isn't providing security updates for the code.

Typically, the advice given out in such situations is to try and adopt a later Python version to be able to use a later Moin version, which for enterprise distributions like RHEL might involve additional semi-official repositories like EPEL. Otherwise, you'd need to maintain your own Python installation specifically for Moin, too, but you can at least do so in a confined part of the system and not try and replace the system Python, which is generally regarded as a bad thing to do.


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