[Numpy-discussion] Numpy discussion - was: Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

Matthew Brett matthew.brett at gmail.com
Sat Apr 6 13:39:37 EDT 2013


On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM, matti picus <matti.picus at gmail.com> wrote:
> as a lurker, may I say that this discussion seems to have become
> non-productive?

Well - the discussion is about two things - as so often the case on numpy.

The first is about the particular change.

The second is implicit, and keeps coming up, and that is about how
change of any sort comes about in numpy.  These questions keep coming
up.  Who decides on change?  Is there a veto?  Who has it?  When do we
vote, when do we negotiate?

For example, one small part of the discussion was the lack of
developers in numpy.

For some, stopping these long discussions (somehow) will help recruit
developers.  The idea is that developers don't like these discussions,
and, implicitly, that there is no problem, so the discussion is
unnecessary.  This is a version of the old  'no man, no problem'

For others, these long and unproductive discussions are pointing at a
severe problem right at the heart of numpy development, which is that
it is very hard to work in a system where it is unclear how decisions
get made. See for example Mark Wiebe's complaint at the end here [1].
  If this second lot of people are right then we have two options a)
stop the discussions, numpy decays and dies from lack of direction b)
continue the discussions and hope that it becomes clear that this is
indeed a serious problem, and there develops some agreement to fix it.

> It seems all agree that docs needs improvement, perhaps a first step would
> be to suggest doc improvements, and then the need for renaming may become
> self-evident, or not.

I'm sure you're right - that doing the docs first would help, and
thank you for the suggestion.



[1] https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/blob/master/NA-overview.rst

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