[Numpy-discussion] The BLAS problem (was: Re: Wiki page for building numerical stuff on Windows)

Julian Taylor jtaylor.debian at googlemail.com
Mon Apr 28 20:10:25 EDT 2014

On 29.04.2014 02:05, Matthew Brett wrote:
> Hi,
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Nathaniel Smith <njs at pobox.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Michael Lehn <michael.lehn at uni-ulm.de> wrote:
>>> Am 11 Apr 2014 um 19:05 schrieb Sturla Molden <sturla.molden at gmail.com>:
>>>> Sturla Molden <sturla.molden at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Making a totally new BLAS might seem like a crazy idea, but it might be the
>>>>> best solution in the long run.
>>>> To see if this can be done, I'll try to re-implement cblas_dgemm and then
>>>> benchmark against MKL, Accelerate and OpenBLAS. If I can get the
>>>> performance better than 75% of their speed, without any assembly or dark
>>> So what percentage on performance did you achieve so far?
>> I finally read this paper:
>>    http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/flame/pubs/blis2_toms_rev2.pdf
>> and I have to say that I'm no longer so convinced that OpenBLAS is the
>> right starting point. They make a compelling argument that BLIS *is*
>> the cleaned up, maintainable, and yet still competitive
>> reimplementation of GotoBLAS/OpenBLAS that we all want, and that
>> getting there required a qualitative reorganization of the code (i.e.,
>> very hard to do incrementally). But they've done it. And, I get the
>> impression that the stuff they're missing -- threading, cross-platform
>> build stuff, and runtime CPU adaptation -- is all pretty
>> straightforward stuff that is only missing because no-one's gotten
>> around to sitting down and implementing it. (In particular that paper
>> does include impressive threading results; it sounds like given a
>> decent thread pool library one could get competitive performance
>> pretty trivially, it's just that they haven't been bothered yet to do
>> thread pools properly or systematically test which of the pretty-good
>> approaches to threading is "best". Which is important if your goal is
>> to write papers about BLAS libraries but irrelevant to reaching
>> minimal-viable-product stage.)
>> It would be really interesting if someone were to try hacking simple
>> runtime CPU detection into BLIS and see how far you could get -- right
>> now they do kernel selection via the C preprocessor, but hacking in
>> some function pointer thing instead would not be that hard I think. A
>> maintainable library that builds on Linux/OSX/Windows, gets
>> competitive performance on last-but-one generation x86-64 CPUs, and
>> gets better-than-reference-BLAS performance everywhere else, would be
>> a very very compelling product that I bet would quickly attract the
>> necessary attention to make it competitive on all CPUs.
> I wonder - is there anyone who might be able to do this work, if we
> found funding for a couple of months to do it?

On scipy-dev a interesting BLIS related message was posted recently:

It seems some work of integrating BLIS into a proper BLAS/LAPACK library
is already done.

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