[Numpy-discussion] Adoption of a Code of Conduct

[Ilhan Polat]

I agree with Ralf. That thread is more towards a US based separation.
Actually we briefly touched upon these on the SciPy side but indeed there
was no real discussion.

Political beliefs (especially communism in US for a practical example) can
offend some people and that's OK because being offended by itself doesn't
have a merit. There will always be someone getting offended by anything.
But racism, sexism etc. are not "political" stances and deserve to be
united against regardless whether someone is offended or not.

Actually calling these discriminating doctrines as "political beliefs" is
making me quite nervous instead.







On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Ralf Gommers <ralf.gommers at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 8:12 AM, Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Ralf Gommers <ralf.gommers at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:20 AM, Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I realize this was probably brought up in the discussions about the
>>>> scipy code of conduct which I have not looked at, but I’m troubled by the
>>>> inclusion of “political beliefs” in the document.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It was not brought up explicitly as far as I remember.
>>>
>>>
>>>> See e.g.
>>>> https://github.com/jupyter/governance/pull/5
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's about moving names around. I don't see any mention of political
>>> beliefs?
>>>
>>
>> Sorry about that, I elided the 6. This is the correct link:
>>
>> https://github.com/jupyter/governance/pull/56
>>
>
> Thanks, that's useful context for your question.
>
> I'm personally not too attached to "political belief", but I think the
> discussion in that PR and in the OSCON context is very US-centric and
> reflective of the polarized atmosphere there.
>
> If everyone is fine with removing political beliefs then I'm fine with
> that, but I don't think that the argument itself (from a non-US
> perspective) has much merit.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> As a thought experiment, what if someone’s political beliefs imply that
>>>> other contributors are not deserving of human rights? Increasingly ideas
>>>> like this are coming into the mainstream worldwide and I think this is a
>>>> real concern that should be considered.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is a difference between having beliefs, and expressing those
>>> beliefs in ways that offends others. I don't see any problem with saying
>>> that we welcome anyone, irrespective of political belief. However, if
>>> someone starts expressing things that are intolerant (like someone else not
>>> deserving human rights) on any of our communication forums or in an
>>> in-person meeting, that would be a clear violation of the CoC. Which can be
>>> dealt with via the reporting and enforcement mechanism in the CoC.
>>>
>>> I don't see a problem here, but I would see a real problem with removing
>>> the "political beliefs" phrase.
>>>
>>
>> For another perspective on this issue see https://where.coraline.codes/b
>> log/oscon/, where Coraline Ada describes her reasons for not speaking at
>> OSCON this year due to a similar clause in the code of conduct.
>>
>
> There's a lot of very unrealistic examples in that post. Plus retracting a
> week in advance of a conference is, to put it mildly, questionable. So not
> sure what to think of the rest of that post. There may be good points in
> there, but they're obscured by the obvious flaws in thinking and choice of
> examples.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralf
>
>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>> Ralf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:25 PM Charles R Harris <
>>>> charlesr.harris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 4:02 PM, Stefan van der Walt <
>>>>> stefanv at berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A while ago, SciPy (the library) adopted its Code of Conduct:
>>>>>> https://docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/reference/dev/conduct/code_
>>>>>> of_conduct.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We worked hard to make that document friendly, while at the same time
>>>>>> stating clearly the kinds of behavior that would and would not be
>>>>>> tolerated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose that we adopt the SciPy code of conduct for NumPy as well.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> is a good way to signal to newcomers that this is a community that
>>>>>> cares
>>>>>> about how people are treated.  And I think we should do anything in
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> power to make NumPy as attractive as possible!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we adopt this document as policy, we will need to select a Code of
>>>>>> Conduct committee, to whom potential transgressions can be reported.
>>>>>> The individuals doing this for SciPy may very well be happy to do the
>>>>>> same for NumPy, but the community should decide whom will best serve
>>>>>> those roles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me know your thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 from me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
>>>>> NumPy-Discussion at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
>>>> NumPy-Discussion at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
>>> NumPy-Discussion at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
>> NumPy-Discussion at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
> NumPy-Discussion at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/numpy-discussion/attachments/20180801/1134e911/attachment.html>