[Overload-sig] Should we import old MM discussions into e.g. Discourse?

[Brett Cannon]

So basically python-dev implicitly becoming python-dev-announce while all
actual discussion occurring on Discourse? If that's the case I would be
curious to know how the separation would be as to what should go where. I
can see things like release details being announced (e.g. "we're cutting
3.6.a2 on such-and-such a date"), but otherwise I would think everything
else would involve some form of discussion. And if that's the case then
it's more of a python-releases mailing list where anyone can subscribe but
only RMs can post (and maybe maintainers of other implementations).

And if whatever wins this discussion requires a migration, we can do it in
phases based on things directly tied to Python's development (e.g.
python-dev and SIGs), then consider expanding it (e.g. python-list if
people want to go that far).

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 at 10:29 Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> I think a clean break would actually be preferable.
>
> I think it would be fine to have the Discourse and MM instance both be
> active, for slightly different purposes. E.g. python-dev would be more of a
> news broadcast, with a social convention to discourage responses and have
> discussions on Discourse instead.
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 1:14 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying something new here: moving a reply to a different subject.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a short time period I think it’s fine to try and test
>>>> the waters, but long term we should pick one tool, whatever that tool
>>>> is, for this
>>>> kind of discussion [1] and bless that and get rid of anything else.
>>>> Whether that’s
>>>> mailman or discourse or something else.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you decided that (for example) python-dev would move to Discourse, is
>>> there
>>>
>>> a) some way to suck the old MM archives into Discourse?
>>>
>>> b) allow search engines to index them?
>>>
>>> It's not clear that the infinite scroll thing allows for (easy)
>>> indexing, though I assume Google and Bing have their collective act
>>> together in this regard.
>>>
>>> Would the MM->some-kind-of-forum decision be made on a list-by-list
>>> basis, or would some lists always remain MM-hosted? I can see where the
>>> natives might get very restless if you migrated comp.lang.python/
>>> python-list at python.org to some sort of forum tool. Python-dev or
>>> python-ideas would be bad enough, but for c.l.p it would probably be
>>> torches and pitchforks time.
>>>
>>
>> I personally think that in this case (unlike hg->git) there is little
>> benefit to importing old discussions. The old discussions *do* have
>> permalinks, in pipermail and various other archives (e.g. activestate).
>> Those links are already being used and we should try very hard not to break
>> such links. That probably means keeping pipermail running forever, in
>> read-only mode.
>>
>>
>> This is two things I think, I totally agree we should not break those
>> existing links and we should keep piper mail running forever in read-only
>> mode. When it comes to importing the old discussions, I think there is
>> benefit to them:
>>
>> * It would provide a seeding of “We noticed you were posting a topic that
>> looks similar to an older one?”
>> * It’d enable interlinking using the discourse mechanisms for those older
>> posts instead of having to find the piper mail url and linking to that.
>>
>> I don’t think these are super huge benefits though, so I’m also perfectly
>> happy to start fresh (particularly if we try and import and it ends up
>> munging up the formatting to the degree the old messages aren’t very
>> useful).
>>
>>
>> FWIW I also don't think we need to shut down the existing mailing lists.
>> They serve a purpose. But they should not be the only place where we
>> discuss things (that's my definition of "forum" BTW) and probably not the
>> busiest place. I hope we can move all lists on mail.python.org to
>> MM3/HyperKitty with minimal disruption -- again I think it would be fine if
>> the archives weren't imported, even if that means some threads will be
>> split across two archival systems. That's not the end of the world.
>>
>>
>> Does this mean that you you’d want to say (pretending we decide to move
>> python-dev to discourse) keep a python-dev MM list and have them run
>> parallel, disparate discussions?
>>
>>
>> --
>> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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>>
>>
>>
>> —
>> Donald Stufft
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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