[Pandas-dev] Discourse discussion forum

Tue Oct 29 12:51:13 EDT 2019

Sorry I've been traveling.

I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up.
I can send out invites.

I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project,
e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you
want.

Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to
the wild

-- Andy

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single
> discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
>
> If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward
> discussing what to have in the pandas one.
>
> Cheers!
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers"
>> one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions
>> levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for
>> the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we
>> can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to
>> coc at pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we
>> can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those
>> and centralize everything in Discourse.
>>
>> I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the
>> ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and
>> the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to
>> set that up.
>>
>> Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can
>> have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to
>> have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the
>> domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin,
>> feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
>>
>> Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far,
>> but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place
>> makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface
>> also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups.
>> Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making
>> there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups
>> over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
>> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas?
>>> (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core
>>> devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter
>>> (discourse is not a real-time chat).
>>>
>>> Joris
>>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact
>>>> with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email
>>>> address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen
>>>> should be possible.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists:
>>>> - pydata google group
>>>> - pandas-dev (this)
>>>> - core devs list
>>>>
>>>> I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to
>>>> keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
>>>>
>>>> I created an issue for this discussion some time ago:
>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here
>>>>>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy
>>>>>> have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger
>>>>>> one”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> — Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
>>>>>> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different
>>>>>>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might
>>>>>>> also host discourse)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether
>>>>>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But
>>>>>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category /
>>>>>>> tagging.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a
>>>>>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits
>>>>>>> with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels
>>>>>>> (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it.
>>>>> Possibly gitter as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make
>>>>>>>> things quite tricky to find things then.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an
>>>>>>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after
>>>>>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place
>>>>>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a
>>>>>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage
>>>>>>>> to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other
>>>>>>>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to
>>>>>>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source
>>>>>>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we
>>>>>>>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it
>>>>>>>>>> a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess
>>>>>>>>>> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users",
>>>>>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a
>>>>>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll
>>>>>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees
>>>>>>>>>> with my guesses, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH
>>>>>>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more
>>>>>>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -- Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now
>>>>>>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within
>>>>>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas infrastructure we need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sponsors in the new website:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutional-partners and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the traffic we need):
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...):
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mybinder).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>>>>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>>> President
>>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>

-- 
Andy R. Terrel, PhD
President, NumFOCUS
andy at numfocus.org
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