From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug  4 20:52:53 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:52:53 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moin resource limit
Message-ID: <4C59B705.8080100@v.loewis.de>

MoinMoin has been causing overload problems on ximinez, presumably due
to overly long request processing of some requests.

I added rusage limits into moin.wsgi: each request gets only 10s of CPU
time to complete; afterwards, the moin process is aborted.

If you notice any problems, please let me know.

Regards,
Martin

From bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 18:32:40 2010
From: bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com (Bob oCatacoo)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:32:40 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
Message-ID: <AANLkTinePYjExsop-ro56w3A6YiPaco5eRCdO6rXsRB_@mail.gmail.com>

When creating a simple page or edit of page
errors occured stating contact webmaster

sorry that I can not state the actual displayed error

I did overcome such error (several times)
by using the back control
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100806/880a8e57/attachment.html>

From bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 18:53:35 2010
From: bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com (Bob oCatacoo)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:53:35 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
Message-ID: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>

http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryHomepage
error

Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable
to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at python.org and inform
them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that
may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
------------------------------
Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2
mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/2.5 Server at wiki.python.org Port 80
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100806/15bccf50/attachment.html>

From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug  6 19:00:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:00:22 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinePYjExsop-ro56w3A6YiPaco5eRCdO6rXsRB_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinePYjExsop-ro56w3A6YiPaco5eRCdO6rXsRB_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C5C3FA6.9030003@holdenweb.com>

On 8/6/2010 12:32 PM, Bob oCatacoo wrote:
> When creating a simple page or edit of page
> errors occured stating contact webmaster
> 
> sorry that I can not state the actual displayed error
> 
> I did overcome such error (several times)
> by using the back control
> 
Bob:

Thanks for your report. Perhaps if you could at least give us some idea
of the time this happened we might see something in the logs. Otherwise
I am not sure we have enough to go on. I am glad to know that you did
eventually see the pages you were requesting.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 19:14:09 2010
From: bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com (Bob oCatacoo)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:14:09 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikDEMt=oQW7z47uzgve5=pR1LBHx1J+b1P-9BnO@mail.gmail.com>

several times this morning between 11am and 12pm utc+6
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100806/820ff2a4/attachment.html>

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Fri Aug  6 21:19:08 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 21:19:08 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Friday 06 August 2010 18:53:35 Bob oCatacoo wrote:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryHomepage
> error
>
> Internal Server Error
>
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable
> to complete your request.

This could be related to Martin's recent change to put a time/resource limit 
on Moin processes. It's quite possible for pages involving searches to spend 
a bit of time getting all the results, even though Xapian should be enabled 
and working on the python.org Moin instances.

I managed to get CategoryHomepage to show results, but I imagine that it might 
not do so under certain conditions. One page which is almost guaranteed to 
consume a fair amount of time is this one:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PageHits

This no longer works for me.

Paul

P.S. I wonder if any progress has been made on Wiki improvements since I 
grabbed Steve at EuroPython and persuaded him to push the matter forward 
somewhat, for which I am (and presumably Radomir is) grateful.

From sheep at sheep.art.pl  Mon Aug  9 17:02:14 2010
From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 17:02:14 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
In-Reply-To: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>
	<201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinGJT=SxFbg_U=uqwHYXE+XxSHg1Q-Vrh5w_1tB@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> P.S. I wonder if any progress has been made on Wiki improvements since I
> grabbed Steve at EuroPython and persuaded him to push the matter forward
> somewhat, for which I am (and presumably Radomir is) grateful.

I did get everything sorted out access-wise and made a small tour
around the server,
looking at how everything is organized, but I didn't make any changes
yet. The very
first thing that I want to do is making MoinMoin run as a separate
user, so that I don't
need the root privileges to work with it. I will keep you all informed
before I do anything
though.

I'm sorry that it takes so long, this time it's all caused by me --
not having enough time.

By the way Paul, you mentioned that you had some improvements in mind
for the Europython
MoinMoin theme, but either we didn't talk about it in detail or I just
forgot in the excitement
at the conference -- if you remember what it was, I would be grateful
if you could repeat it for me.

-- 
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  9 18:07:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:07:51 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinGJT=SxFbg_U=uqwHYXE+XxSHg1Q-Vrh5w_1tB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>	<201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<AANLkTinGJT=SxFbg_U=uqwHYXE+XxSHg1Q-Vrh5w_1tB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6027D7.1090704@holdenweb.com>

On 8/9/2010 11:02 AM, Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>> P.S. I wonder if any progress has been made on Wiki improvements since I
>> grabbed Steve at EuroPython and persuaded him to push the matter forward
>> somewhat, for which I am (and presumably Radomir is) grateful.
> 
> I did get everything sorted out access-wise and made a small tour
> around the server,
> looking at how everything is organized, but I didn't make any changes
> yet. The very
> first thing that I want to do is making MoinMoin run as a separate
> user, so that I don't
> need the root privileges to work with it. I will keep you all informed
> before I do anything
> though.
> 
> I'm sorry that it takes so long, this time it's all caused by me --
> not having enough time.
> 
> By the way Paul, you mentioned that you had some improvements in mind
> for the Europython
> MoinMoin theme, but either we didn't talk about it in detail or I just
> forgot in the excitement
> at the conference -- if you remember what it was, I would be grateful
> if you could repeat it for me.
> 
Slow and steady wins the race, Radmoir - no need to rush. Thanks for the
update, and for getting involved.

regards
 Steve

-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Aug  9 23:26:14 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 23:26:14 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinGJT=SxFbg_U=uqwHYXE+XxSHg1Q-Vrh5w_1tB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikGgVeMatwSbA8Hs27SAgJ8o-nAs7ViJLhEbks8@mail.gmail.com>
	<201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<AANLkTinGJT=SxFbg_U=uqwHYXE+XxSHg1Q-Vrh5w_1tB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008092326.14607.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Monday 09 August 2010 17:02:14 Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
>
> I did get everything sorted out access-wise and made a small tour
> around the server, looking at how everything is organized, but I didn't make
> any changes yet. The very first thing that I want to do is making MoinMoin
> run as a separate user, so that I don't need the root privileges to work
> with it. I will keep you all informed before I do anything though.

I'm confident that you know what to do. I imagine that Thomas and company will 
only be too happy to give advice. :-)

> I'm sorry that it takes so long, this time it's all caused by me --
> not having enough time.

I don't expect rapid progress: it was Steve's timely entrance which provoked 
me into getting you both talking, and it's great to see progress of any kind. 
I was just in a position to nag constructively. ;-)

> By the way Paul, you mentioned that you had some improvements in mind
> for the Europython MoinMoin theme, but either we didn't talk about it in
> detail or I just forgot in the excitement at the conference -- if you
> remember what it was, I would be grateful if you could repeat it for me.

I think the principal thing was the print stylesheet. If you print pages, all 
of the "boilerplate" (menus, headers, footers) gets printed, but it's quite 
straightforward to apply "display: none" to a lot of that for much cleaner 
printouts. Something like this:

#header, #sidebar, #footer, #timings, #credits, #interwiki, #pagelocation {
        display: none;
}

Good luck in your explorations!

Paul

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 10 01:12:13 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 16:12:13 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
Message-ID: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>

Another complaint, will respond to user

----- Forwarded message from ceduard0 <carlos.eduardo.virgen at gmail.com> -----

> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 17:30:06 -0500
> Subject: Internal Server Error
> From: ceduard0 <carlos.eduardo.virgen at gmail.com>
> To: webmaster at python.org
> 
> Hi webmaster, I want to see this link
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/TitleIndex, but It is return me the follow
> error message:
> Internal Server Error
> 
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable
> to complete your request.
> 
> Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at python.org and inform
> them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that
> may have caused the error.
> 
> More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
> ------------------------------
> Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2
> mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/2.5 Server at wiki.python.org Port 80
> 
> -- 
> ceduard0

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a
Windows box."  --Cliff Wells

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Aug 10 07:16:08 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:16:08 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de>

Am 10.08.2010 01:12, schrieb Aahz:
> Another complaint, will respond to user

Ah, that's the 10s CPU quota in force. FWIW, when I just accessed it,
it worked fine.

Any proposals on how to solve this appreciated. My own proposal
is to move the Wiki to dinsdale, which has more CPUs than ximinez
(so would could allocate four of them to the Wiki, and allow for,
say, 30s requests).

Regards,
Martin

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 10 16:19:13 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:19:13 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> Am 10.08.2010 01:12, schrieb Aahz:
>>
>> Another complaint, will respond to user
> 
> Ah, that's the 10s CPU quota in force. FWIW, when I just accessed it,
> it worked fine.

Right, that's what I told the user.  It would be nice if we could give
the user a "timeout" page rather than a 500 error ("Your request exceeded
available processing time, please try again later.").

> Any proposals on how to solve this appreciated. My own proposal
> is to move the Wiki to dinsdale, which has more CPUs than ximinez
> (so would could allocate four of them to the Wiki, and allow for,
> say, 30s requests).

That sounds like a fine idea.  Also, I have no idea what the current
budget of the PSF is, but throwing hardware at problems (i.e. getting a
dedicated wiki machine) also seems like a fine idea.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a
Windows box."  --Cliff Wells

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 10 16:20:07 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:20:07 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: [issue10114] Roundup email interface problem
Message-ID: <20100810142007.GB1187@panix.com>

----- Forwarded message from Izak Burger <support at upfrontsystems.co.za> -----

> Subject: [issue10114] Roundup email interface problem
> To: aahz at pythoncraft.com
> From: Izak Burger <support at upfrontsystems.co.za>
> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:51:58 -0000
> Reply-To: Upfront Systems support <support at upfrontsystems.co.za>
> 
> Izak Burger <izak at upfrontsystems.co.za> added the comment:
> 
> Resolving. The issue was a corrupted ext3 journal, I trashed and rebuilt 
> it last night.
> 
> ----------
> status: chatting -> resolved
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Upfront Systems support <support at upfrontsystems.co.za>
> <https://roundup.upfrontsystems.co.za/support/issue10114>
> _________________________________________________________

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a
Windows box."  --Cliff Wells

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Aug 10 23:44:47 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:44:47 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>

Am 10.08.2010 16:19, schrieb Aahz:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> Am 10.08.2010 01:12, schrieb Aahz:
>>>
>>> Another complaint, will respond to user
>>
>> Ah, that's the 10s CPU quota in force. FWIW, when I just accessed it,
>> it worked fine.
> 
> Right, that's what I told the user.  It would be nice if we could give
> the user a "timeout" page rather than a 500 error ("Your request exceeded
> available processing time, please try again later.").

I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets
killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota.

>> Any proposals on how to solve this appreciated. My own proposal
>> is to move the Wiki to dinsdale, which has more CPUs than ximinez
>> (so would could allocate four of them to the Wiki, and allow for,
>> say, 30s requests).
> 
> That sounds like a fine idea.  Also, I have no idea what the current
> budget of the PSF is, but throwing hardware at problems (i.e. getting a
> dedicated wiki machine) also seems like a fine idea.

We would also have to look for hosting then - XS4ALL won't allow us more
rack space.

Regards,
Martin

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 11 00:16:52 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:16:52 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Tuesday 10 August 2010 23:44:47 Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>
> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets
> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota.

I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to 
process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although 
the pages were saved correctly.

A brief search gave up this short thread:

http://www.mail-archive.com/moin-user at lists.sourceforge.net/msg01720.html

I guess I'll just keep looking for more general information about this kind of 
problem.

Paul

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 00:25:27 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:25:27 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>
	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>

>> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets
>> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota.
> 
> I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to 
> process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although 
> the pages were saved correctly.

Well, one such page is TitleIndex. I don't know how MoinMoin computes it
- but it surely is expensive to compute, given the size of this Wiki.

Of course, any proposals for tuning the installation would be much
appreciated.

It's just a fact that this Wiki has computed *a lot* of CPU time over
the last few years, and has often caused the Cheeseshop to become
unavailable (which is quite unfortunate).

With the CPU quota, this doesn't seem to happen anymore - at the
expensive of some pages not getting rendered properly.

Regards,
Martin

From p at state-of-mind.de  Wed Aug 11 00:42:31 2010
From: p at state-of-mind.de (Patrick Ben Koetter)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:42:31 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100810224231.GA2872@state-of-mind.de>

* "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>:
> >> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets
> >> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota.
> > 
> > I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to 
> > process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although 
> > the pages were saved correctly.
> 
> Well, one such page is TitleIndex. I don't know how MoinMoin computes it
> - but it surely is expensive to compute, given the size of this Wiki.
> 
> Of course, any proposals for tuning the installation would be much
> appreciated.

I'll ask without knowing what ever has been done before to control the load.
Has anybody ever checked if pages could be

- on 2 servers and a load balancer upfront
- cached by a proxy or in memory
- served by a faster more leight weight http process
- rendered to a static version that will be rebuild only from time to time
- split into smaller chunks

Those are first things that come to my mind when I think of dynamic websites
that eat to many computer ressources.

p at rick



> 
> It's just a fact that this Wiki has computed *a lot* of CPU time over
> the last few years, and has often caused the Cheeseshop to become
> unavailable (which is quite unfortunate).
> 
> With the CPU quota, this doesn't seem to happen anymore - at the
> expensive of some pages not getting rendered properly.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www

-- 
state of mind
Digitale Kommunikation

http://www.state-of-mind.de

Franziskanerstra?e 15      Telefon +49 89 3090 4664
81669 M?nchen              Telefax +49 89 3090 4666

Amtsgericht M?nchen        Partnerschaftsregister PR 563


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 11 00:45:50 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:45:50 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>

On 8/10/2010 6:25 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets
>>> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota.
>>
>> I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to 
>> process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although 
>> the pages were saved correctly.
> 
> Well, one such page is TitleIndex. I don't know how MoinMoin computes it
> - but it surely is expensive to compute, given the size of this Wiki.
> 
> Of course, any proposals for tuning the installation would be much
> appreciated.
> 
> It's just a fact that this Wiki has computed *a lot* of CPU time over
> the last few years, and has often caused the Cheeseshop to become
> unavailable (which is quite unfortunate).
> 
> With the CPU quota, this doesn't seem to happen anymore - at the
> expensive of some pages not getting rendered properly.
> 
Given the non-availability of extra rack space at XS4ALL, would it be
practical to replace one or more machines with more powerful hardware,
or is it pretty much maxed out?

If the latter then we should probably look at relocating the Wiki (which
I don't believe has any content best handled outside the US) to some
other hosting facility. It should certainly not be allowed to interfere
with the Cheeseshop, which will be a crucial resource in the future.

I'm copying Sean Reifschneider on this mail as the Infrastructure
Committee may need to take a view on this issue at some point.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 00:58:47 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:58:47 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20100810224231.GA2872@state-of-mind.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>
	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>
	<20100810224231.GA2872@state-of-mind.de>
Message-ID: <4C61D9A7.5050108@v.loewis.de>

> I'll ask without knowing what ever has been done before to control the load.
> Has anybody ever checked if pages could be
> 
> - on 2 servers and a load balancer upfront

Not at XS4ALL, no. However, using more processors might already help -
no need for multiple servers.

> - cached by a proxy or in memory

That likely won't help. MoinMoin already caches on its own; it's the
generation of pages that need to be regenerated is what costs CPU.
Also, it would be difficult to determine what exactly can be cached, and
for how long. MoinMoin caches on disk - caching in memory likely won't
matter much.

> - served by a faster more leight weight http process

I fail to see how this could possibly help. It's Python processes
consuming 30s and more per request that take the CPU. Apache doesn't
matter at all here.

> - rendered to a static version that will be rebuild only from time to time

That might help, but it would defeat the point of a wiki, with
instantaneous updates.

> - split into smaller chunks

Not sure how to do this.

> Those are first things that come to my mind when I think of dynamic websites
> that eat to many computer ressources.

I'm personally skeptical that any of these can help.

Regards,
Martin

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 01:02:46 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 01:02:46 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>

> Given the non-availability of extra rack space at XS4ALL, would it be
> practical to replace one or more machines with more powerful hardware,
> or is it pretty much maxed out?

Moving the wiki to dinsdale would instantaneously make more powerful
hardware available. That machine is underutilized. Of course, moving the
wiki might flip that judgement.

> If the latter then we should probably look at relocating the Wiki (which
> I don't believe has any content best handled outside the US) to some
> other hosting facility. It should certainly not be allowed to interfere
> with the Cheeseshop, which will be a crucial resource in the future.

But so will be the Wiki, no?

In any case, I also favor it not interfering with the Cheeseshop, at
the expense of risking interference with www.python.org.

So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.

Regards,
Martin

From mikeisgreat at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 01:39:39 2010
From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael S)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:39:39 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:02 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> Given the non-availability of extra rack space at XS4ALL, would it be
>> practical to replace one or more machines with more powerful hardware,
>> or is it pretty much maxed out?
>
> Moving the wiki to dinsdale would instantaneously make more powerful
> hardware available. That machine is underutilized. Of course, moving the
> wiki might flip that judgement.
>
>> If the latter then we should probably look at relocating the Wiki (which
>> I don't believe has any content best handled outside the US) to some
>> other hosting facility. It should certainly not be allowed to interfere
>> with the Cheeseshop, which will be a crucial resource in the future.
>
> But so will be the Wiki, no?
>
> In any case, I also favor it not interfering with the Cheeseshop, at
> the expense of risking interference with www.python.org.
>
> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.

Jumping in late..

Can we recreate this issue?  I don't have access to the servers but I
am willing to assist with some sysadmin foo.
Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..

following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http, but since I
am blind, I am just following along seeing if I can assist.

Side Note:

I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
sysadmin/pydotorg.

What do I need to do to get shell access so I can view logs, pids, sys
stats, etc?  I just checked and my pubkey is still there (see below)
but no shell access:

[505]mike at maci:~$ ssh -i .ssh/pykey pydotorg at svn.python.org

PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
( success ( 2 2 ( ) ( edit-pipeline svndiff1 absent-entries
commit-revprops depth log-revprops partial-replay ) ) ) Connection to
svn.python.org closed

- Mike
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 01:44:14 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 01:44:14 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>	<4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de>

>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.
> 
> Jumping in late..
> 
> Can we recreate this issue?

Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just
edit some page, and try to save the changes.

> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..

That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable".

> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http

It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU.

> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
> sysadmin/pydotorg.

>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I
don't recall why I did - can you please remind me?

Regards,
Martin

From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 11 02:19:12 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:19:12 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>	<4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>

On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.
>>
>> Jumping in late..
>>
>> Can we recreate this issue?
> 
> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just
> edit some page, and try to save the changes.
> 
>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..
> 
> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable".
> 
>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http
> 
> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU.
> 
>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
>> sysadmin/pydotorg.
> 
>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I
> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me?
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 
Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team
with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether
there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it),
but he's a resource we should not ignore.

regards
 Steve

-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From mikeisgreat at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 02:44:14 2010
From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:44:14 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimD_mkgFDc0-AbjpgisVAkOh6fR=Y1SroB0LdJD@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.
>>>
>>> Jumping in late..
>>>
>>> Can we recreate this issue?
>>
>> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just
>> edit some page, and try to save the changes.
>>
>>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..
>>
>> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable".
>>
>>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
>>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http
>>
>> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU.
>>
>>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
>>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
>>> sysadmin/pydotorg.
>>
>>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I
>> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me?

I sent the answer to Martin's questions off list. Don't know if that
was appropriate or not.

Anyhow, if you look at what gnome.org did with /TitleIndex

http://live.gnome.org/TitleIndex

I was wondering if that would be something to consider here.
Personally. I like solving the problems without doing things so
drastic, but that seems like a simple fix.

>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
>>
> Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team
> with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether
> there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it),
> but he's a resource we should not ignore.
>
> regards
> ?Steve
>
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 ? ?http://djangocon.us/
> See Python Video! ? ? ? http://python.mirocommunity.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/
>

From mikeisgreat at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 05:56:34 2010
From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:56:34 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimD_mkgFDc0-AbjpgisVAkOh6fR=Y1SroB0LdJD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTimD_mkgFDc0-AbjpgisVAkOh6fR=Y1SroB0LdJD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimCKZTNHF1FRq4O8Y1CqEOCJabhAQaawAoTXb1N@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Michael Steinfeld
<mikeisgreat at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.
>>>>
>>>> Jumping in late..
>>>>
>>>> Can we recreate this issue?
>>>
>>> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just
>>> edit some page, and try to save the changes.
>>>
>>>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..
>>>
>>> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable".
>>>
>>>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
>>>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http
>>>
>>> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU.
>>>
>>>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
>>>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
>>>> sysadmin/pydotorg.
>>>
>>>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I
>>> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me?
>
> I sent the answer to Martin's questions off list. Don't know if that
> was appropriate or not.
>
> Anyhow, if you look at what gnome.org did with /TitleIndex
>
> http://live.gnome.org/TitleIndex
>
> I was wondering if that would be something to consider here.
> Personally. I like solving the problems without doing things so
> drastic, but that seems like a simple fix.

Is munin still active?

i.e. http://www.python.org/munin/

>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Martin
>>>
>> Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team
>> with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether
>> there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it),
>> but he's a resource we should not ignore.
>>
>> regards
>> ?Steve
>>
>> --
>> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
>> DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 ? ?http://djangocon.us/
>> See Python Video! ? ? ? http://python.mirocommunity.org/
>> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/
>>
>

From mikeisgreat at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 05:58:08 2010
From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:58:08 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimCKZTNHF1FRq4O8Y1CqEOCJabhAQaawAoTXb1N@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTimD_mkgFDc0-AbjpgisVAkOh6fR=Y1SroB0LdJD@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimCKZTNHF1FRq4O8Y1CqEOCJabhAQaawAoTXb1N@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=kjxqkY81mvsRiYCQvdMsyfnWudpn6MBda1-zd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Michael Steinfeld
<mikeisgreat at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Michael Steinfeld
> <mikeisgreat at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>>>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jumping in late..
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we recreate this issue?
>>>>
>>>> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just
>>>> edit some page, and try to save the changes.
>>>>
>>>>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..
>>>>
>>>> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable".
>>>>
>>>>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
>>>>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http
>>>>
>>>> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU.
>>>>
>>>>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
>>>>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
>>>>> sysadmin/pydotorg.
>>>>
>>>>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I
>>>> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me?
>>
>> I sent the answer to Martin's questions off list. Don't know if that
>> was appropriate or not.
>>
>> Anyhow, if you look at what gnome.org did with /TitleIndex
>>
>> http://live.gnome.org/TitleIndex
>>
>> I was wondering if that would be something to consider here.
>> Personally. I like solving the problems without doing things so
>> drastic, but that seems like a simple fix.
>
> Is munin still active?

nevermind, I need my glasses.

This page was generated by Munin version 1.2.6 at 2010-08-11 T 05:55:06

>
> i.e. http://www.python.org/munin/
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>> Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team
>>> with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether
>>> there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it),
>>> but he's a resource we should not ignore.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> ?Steve
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
>>> DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 ? ?http://djangocon.us/
>>> See Python Video! ? ? ? http://python.mirocommunity.org/
>>> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/
>>>
>>
>

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 08:42:56 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:42:56 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] DNS for wiki changed
Message-ID: <4C624670.8080208@v.loewis.de>

I just assigned the wiki a separate IP address (82.94.164.169,
2001:888:2000:d::a9). The change will need a day to propogate;
the wiki should remain reachable und both the old and the new
address.

Regards,
Martin

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 22:49:18 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:49:18 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki
Message-ID: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de>

I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing
purposes. Please verify that this installation works. If there
are no complaints tomorrow morning, I'll be making this installation
wiki.python.org tomorrow during the day (after synchronizing any
pending changes, of course).

Regards,
Martin

From merwok at netwok.org  Wed Aug 11 23:17:05 2010
From: merwok at netwok.org (=?UTF-8?B?w4lyaWMgQXJhdWpv?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:17:05 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki
In-Reply-To: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org>

Le 11/08/2010 22:49, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit :
> I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing
> purposes. Please verify that this installation works.

When I entered a wrong user name (not on purpose: I have a weird memory)
and tried to login, I got ?A problem occurred in a Python script?.

I looked up my user name in my browser?s password manager, logged in,
edited a page, loaded TitleIndex, no issue at all.

Regards


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 23:52:52 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:52:52 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files
Message-ID: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de>

I just rotated event-log and edit-log of the main instance;
event-log had grown to 2.5GB. When it was previously rotated
(about a year ago), it had 2.3GB.

AFAIK, these log files are only consulted for management pages.
If anybody needs data in them, or thinks I should prepend some
tail of the old data to the new file, please let me know.

One consequence is that the RecentChanges file is empty at
the moment.

Regards,
Martin

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 11 23:59:25 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:59:25 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki
In-Reply-To: <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org>
References: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org>
Message-ID: <4C631D3D.2020803@v.loewis.de>

Am 11.08.2010 23:17, schrieb ?ric Araujo:
> Le 11/08/2010 22:49, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit :
>> I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing
>> purposes. Please verify that this installation works.
> 
> When I entered a wrong user name (not on purpose: I have a weird memory)
> and tried to login, I got ?A problem occurred in a Python script?.
> 
> I looked up my user name in my browser?s password manager, logged in,
> edited a page, loaded TitleIndex, no issue at all.

That's actually an issue with the current installation, also. In the
Debian package, in login.py, it tries

                    error.append(wikiutil.escape(msg))

However, the wikiutil module apparently is not present anymore in
MoinMoin, and isn't imported, either. That seems to be

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=591532

The bug report has a patch; I'll apply that manually before switching.

Regards,
Martin

From mikeisgreat at gmail.com  Thu Aug 12 01:02:43 2010
From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:02:43 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki
In-Reply-To: <4C631D3D.2020803@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org>
	<4C631D3D.2020803@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikSeiFPyttEZO9M55x770Q2pGgCkaPpx2s9rt=j@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:59 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Am 11.08.2010 23:17, schrieb ?ric Araujo:
>> Le 11/08/2010 22:49, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit :
>>> I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing
>>> purposes. Please verify that this installation works.
>>
>> When I entered a wrong user name (not on purpose: I have a weird memory)
>> and tried to login, I got ?A problem occurred in a Python script?.
>>
>> I looked up my user name in my browser?s password manager, logged in,
>> edited a page, loaded TitleIndex, no issue at all.

Yep, looking good.. nice job Martin.

>
> That's actually an issue with the current installation, also. In the
> Debian package, in login.py, it tries
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?error.append(wikiutil.escape(msg))
>
> However, the wikiutil module apparently is not present anymore in
> MoinMoin, and isn't imported, either. That seems to be
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=591532
>
> The bug report has a patch; I'll apply that manually before switching.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 12 01:08:01 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:08:01 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files
In-Reply-To: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Wednesday 11 August 2010 23:52:52 Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> I just rotated event-log and edit-log of the main instance;
> event-log had grown to 2.5GB. When it was previously rotated
> (about a year ago), it had 2.3GB.
>
> AFAIK, these log files are only consulted for management pages.
> If anybody needs data in them, or thinks I should prepend some
> tail of the old data to the new file, please let me know.
>
> One consequence is that the RecentChanges file is empty at
> the moment.

The following page may have some relevant recommendations:

http://moinmo.in/HowTo/Tune%20Performance

I imagine that the costly statistics operations could be restricted in case 
someone needs them. For example, the very expensive PageHits page provides 
quite interesting information about what people are looking at, but the 
average robot (if not already forbidden) doesn't need to get at it.

There's a mention of timing.log which appears to be documented here:

http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.5/CHANGES

Maybe that might indicate the nature of the problem.

Paul

From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 12 01:10:01 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:10:01 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files
In-Reply-To: <201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de>
	<201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4C632DC9.4090500@v.loewis.de>

Am 12.08.2010 01:08, schrieb Paul Boddie:
> On Wednesday 11 August 2010 23:52:52 Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>> I just rotated event-log and edit-log of the main instance;
>> event-log had grown to 2.5GB. When it was previously rotated
>> (about a year ago), it had 2.3GB.
>>
>> AFAIK, these log files are only consulted for management pages.
>> If anybody needs data in them, or thinks I should prepend some
>> tail of the old data to the new file, please let me know.
>>
>> One consequence is that the RecentChanges file is empty at
>> the moment.
> 
> The following page may have some relevant recommendations:
> 
> http://moinmo.in/HowTo/Tune%20Performance

I've seen that - but it didn't really translate into actionable
recommendations for me.

In any case, any costly operations based on these log files
should now be cheap, now that the log files are empty.

So I rather wonder whether there is any significant loss
of functionality. If the recommendation would have been
to restrict access to that functionality, anyway, I guess
the answer is "no".

Regards,
Martin

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 12 01:36:55 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:36:55 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files
In-Reply-To: <4C632DC9.4090500@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de>
	<201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C632DC9.4090500@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <201008120136.55231.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Thursday 12 August 2010 01:10:01 Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Am 12.08.2010 01:08, schrieb Paul Boddie:
> >
> > http://moinmo.in/HowTo/Tune%20Performance
>
> I've seen that - but it didn't really translate into actionable
> recommendations for me.

It might be worth asking on #moin, which I may do tomorrow.

> In any case, any costly operations based on these log files
> should now be cheap, now that the log files are empty.
>
> So I rather wonder whether there is any significant loss
> of functionality. If the recommendation would have been
> to restrict access to that functionality, anyway, I guess
> the answer is "no".

Well, it can occasionally be useful to get at the statistics, so perhaps those 
pages could be protected with an ACL that only gives administrators the right 
to see them.

Maybe there's a performance issue with the global edit-log. The following page 
mentions what it appears to do:

http://moinmo.in/MoinDev/Storage

Again, I may ask on #moin to see if anybody knows about anything related to 
the edit-log or these performance issues generally.

Paul

From sheep at sheep.art.pl  Thu Aug 12 20:35:39 2010
From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:35:39 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=rcOaDtePCda6dko3Y-G-uRZvK=TjYHaCSJWXt@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:19 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it.
>>>
>>> Jumping in late..
>>>
>>> Can we recreate this issue?
>>
>> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just
>> edit some page, and try to save the changes.
>>
>>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc..
>>
>> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable".
>>
>>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process
>>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http
>>
>> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU.
>>
>>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been
>>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with
>>> sysadmin/pydotorg.
>>
>>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I
>> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
>>
> Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team
> with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether
> there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it),
> but he's a resource we should not ignore.

One particularly expensive thing in MoinMoin is displaying the
category pages, as it involves
a full search of the whole wiki. We have introduced a number of
partial solutions that are supposed
to mitigate the issue, from xapian indexing to using cached versions
of the the search macro on the
category pages. I can see that most of the category pages on the
python wiki were created with
earlier version of MoinMoin and still use the FullSearch macro,
instead of FullSearchCached --
changing this should help considerably, at the expense of not having
the changes in categories
show up on the category pages immediately.

Another thing that I discovered in our company is that often the
web-crawling robots will account for
a lot of traffic. MoinMoin already blocks them from most of the
expensive actions, but adding some of
the pages (notably all pages with canned searches) to robots.txt should help.

Last but not least, we have excellent experiences with using Varnish,
a caching reverse-proxy. It does an
excellent job caching most of the page views for not logged-in users
-- which is usually the majority of traffic.

I can start changing the macros on the category pages, and prepare a
robots.txt file with a list of
potentially expensive pages -- if those solutions are accepted. I can
also help configuring Varnish, or just
provide example configuration.

-- 
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 12 22:10:27 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:10:27 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=rcOaDtePCda6dko3Y-G-uRZvK=TjYHaCSJWXt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com>
	<4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de>
	<4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de>
	<4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTi=rcOaDtePCda6dko3Y-G-uRZvK=TjYHaCSJWXt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C645533.4050603@v.loewis.de>

> I can start changing the macros on the category pages, and prepare a
> robots.txt file with a list of potentially expensive pages -- 
> if those solutions are accepted.

These sound fine to me. I'm a bit skeptical about the robots exclusion:
many of the expensive operations are queries, right? and those can't
be blocked by robots exclusion.

> I can  also help 
> configuring Varnish, or just provide example configuration.

I'm really skeptical about any proposals to do caching, because I just
don't believe that those pages that will get cached contribute to the
load in any significant way. It's rather the pages that will *not*
get cached that cause the load, or, if they get cached, they contribute
to user confusion as they don't update in the way in which they should
update.

Regards,
Martin

From sheep at sheep.art.pl  Thu Aug 12 22:37:27 2010
From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:37:27 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <4C645533.4050603@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com>
	<20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de>
	<201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com>
	<4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTikot8yspDN8Kwq3yR+KD20f__WLaFDEEOu2-Yoj@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTi=rcOaDtePCda6dko3Y-G-uRZvK=TjYHaCSJWXt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C645533.4050603@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=saqMVoRS_xNnc+eVgtTitSh1WFqeisyTgswqM@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:10 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> I can start changing the macros on the category pages, and prepare a
>> robots.txt file with a list of potentially expensive pages --
>> if those solutions are accepted.
>
> These sound fine to me. I'm a bit skeptical about the robots exclusion:
> many of the expensive operations are queries, right? and those can't
> be blocked by robots exclusion.

Moin already blocks robots from queries. The problem are canned
queries embedded in wiki pages as macros.

>> I can ?also help
>> configuring Varnish, or just provide example configuration.
>
> I'm really skeptical about any proposals to do caching, because I just
> don't believe that those pages that will get cached contribute to the
> load in any significant way. It's rather the pages that will *not*
> get cached that cause the load, or, if they get cached, they contribute
> to user confusion as they don't update in the way in which they should
> update.

That is really very specific to the website -- that's why you need a custom
configuration each time. I agree that the outcome is uncertain for the
work involved.


-- 
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 13 11:21:15 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:21:15 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
Message-ID: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>

Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?),
which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked
that it is remvoed from the rack.

Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose?
(I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot
the details).

Regards,
Martin

From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 13 11:42:35 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:42:35 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki moved to dinsdale (2nd try)
In-Reply-To: <4C646AD1.6090404@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C646AD1.6090404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4C65138B.8050404@v.loewis.de>

With Kai Storbeck's help, I figured out that I
had to ping the router once from the new system
to make moving the address work.

I have now moved the wiki to dinsdale a second time,
and this time, it really seems to work :-) I have given
the wiki 4 CPUs, and removed the CPU quota.

Again, if there are problems, please let me know.

Regards,
Martin

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 13 16:07:05 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:07:05 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki moved to dinsdale (2nd try)
In-Reply-To: <4C65138B.8050404@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C646AD1.6090404@v.loewis.de> <4C65138B.8050404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100813140705.GA24936@panix.com>

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>
> With Kai Storbeck's help, I figured out that I had to ping the router
> once from the new system to make moving the address work.

Whoo-hoo!  It's a lot faster now!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a
Windows box."  --Cliff Wells

From barry at python.org  Fri Aug 13 18:11:59 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:11:59 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>

On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?),
>which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked
>that it is remvoed from the rack.
>
>Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose?
>(I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot
>the details).

Do you know if it's a PPC or Intel box?  I'm guessing it's probably pretty old
and a PPC.  I can't imagine we really have much of a use for it.  Maybe we can
hit up Glyph to get Apple to exchange it for a newer one?  It might make for a
useful buildbot if we can find a home for it.

-Barry

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100813/2c4deda5/attachment.pgp>

From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 13 19:03:20 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:03:20 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com>

On 8/13/2010 12:12 PM, Cameron Laird wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?),
>> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked
>> that it is remvoed from the rack.
>>
>> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose?
>> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot
>> the details).
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Hmmmm.
> 
> I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers?
> 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers?  ...) would love even remote
> access to a well-maintained Mac OS host.  I doubt that I'm in a
> good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode
> is.

Maybe Titus Brown's team could be persuaded to host it? They already
have a large heap of rusting iron that comprises the hopefully not
entirely defunct Snakebite farm ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From Cameron at phaseit.net  Fri Aug 13 18:12:14 2010
From: Cameron at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:12:14 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us>

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
			.
			.
			.
> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?),
> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked
> that it is remvoed from the rack.
> 
> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose?
> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot
> the details).
			.
			.
			.
Hmmmm.

I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers?
3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers?  ...) would love even remote
access to a well-maintained Mac OS host.  I doubt that I'm in a
good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode
is.

From ctb at msu.edu  Sun Aug 15 05:34:06 2010
From: ctb at msu.edu (C. Titus Brown)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 20:34:06 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us>
	<4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20100815033406.GB8120@idyll.org>

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 01:03:20PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> On 8/13/2010 12:12 PM, Cameron Laird wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> > 			.
> > 			.
> > 			.
> >> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?),
> >> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked
> >> that it is remvoed from the rack.
> >>
> >> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose?
> >> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot
> >> the details).
> > 			.
> > 			.
> > 			.
> > Hmmmm.
> > 
> > I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers?
> > 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers?  ...) would love even remote
> > access to a well-maintained Mac OS host.  I doubt that I'm in a
> > good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode
> > is.
> 
> Maybe Titus Brown's team could be persuaded to host it? They already
> have a large heap of rusting iron that comprises the hopefully not
> entirely defunct Snakebite farm ...

I've already offered remote login access to an iMac in my lab; that's
newer and faster and ... <crickets chirping>.

I think we need people to actually do the work.  Hardware does not seem
to be the primary blocker on this kind of stuff, as far as I can tell.
If it is, the PSF would be better off buying a developer a Mac laptop,
so that they can actually test things like Tkinter directly.

cheers,
--titus
-- 
C. Titus Brown, ctb at msu.edu

From georg at python.org  Sun Aug 15 14:38:18 2010
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:38:18 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <20100815033406.GB8120@idyll.org>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
	<20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us>	<4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com>
	<20100815033406.GB8120@idyll.org>
Message-ID: <4C67DFBA.4090405@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 15.08.2010 05:34, schrieb C. Titus Brown:
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 01:03:20PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>> On 8/13/2010 12:12 PM, Cameron Laird wrote:
>> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> > 			.
>> > 			.
>> > 			.
>> >> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?),
>> >> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked
>> >> that it is remvoed from the rack.
>> >>
>> >> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose?
>> >> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot
>> >> the details).
>> > 			.
>> > 			.
>> > 			.
>> > Hmmmm.
>> > 
>> > I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers?
>> > 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers?  ...) would love even remote
>> > access to a well-maintained Mac OS host.  I doubt that I'm in a
>> > good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode
>> > is.
>> 
>> Maybe Titus Brown's team could be persuaded to host it? They already
>> have a large heap of rusting iron that comprises the hopefully not
>> entirely defunct Snakebite farm ...
> 
> I've already offered remote login access to an iMac in my lab; that's
> newer and faster and ... <crickets chirping>.
> 
> I think we need people to actually do the work.  Hardware does not seem
> to be the primary blocker on this kind of stuff, as far as I can tell.
> If it is, the PSF would be better off buying a developer a Mac laptop,
> so that they can actually test things like Tkinter directly.

AFAICS half of them have Macs already anyway...

Georg
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkxn37oACgkQN9GcIYhpnLCvLQCgpxy08A8CbZDc1VQnvJId4tr5
AtIAniXLbhusPizL93aPhrwAgP/sZfrR
=AUuO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 15 15:20:03 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:20:03 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
Message-ID: <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de>


> Do you know if it's a PPC or Intel box? 

    Hardware Overview:

      Machine Name: Xserve
      Machine Model: RackMac1,2
      CPU Type: PowerPC G4  (3.3)
      Number Of CPUs: 2
      CPU Speed: 1.33 GHz
      L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
      L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB
      Memory: 2 GB
      Bus Speed: 167 MHz
      Boot ROM Version: 4.6.5f3

So it seems that we will decommission the machine.

HTH,
Martin


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Aug 15 16:13:39 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 10:13:39 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>

On 8/15/2010 9:20 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> 
>> Do you know if it's a PPC or Intel box? 
> 
>     Hardware Overview:
> 
>       Machine Name: Xserve
>       Machine Model: RackMac1,2
>       CPU Type: PowerPC G4  (3.3)
>       Number Of CPUs: 2
>       CPU Speed: 1.33 GHz
>       L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
>       L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB
>       Memory: 2 GB
>       Bus Speed: 167 MHz
>       Boot ROM Version: 4.6.5f3
> 
> So it seems that we will decommission the machine.
> 
Perhaps the best approach is to advertise it on the members' list as
"taker pays carriage"? I don't think we want any money for it.

Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I
can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA.


regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Sun Aug 15 17:19:08 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:19:08 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 16:13, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I
> can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA.

I'd be happy to collect it, but I don't have rack space I can put it in. :(

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 15 17:25:35 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:25:35 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
	<20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de>
	<4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>

Am 15.08.2010 17:19, schrieb Dirkjan Ochtman:
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 16:13, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I
>> can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA.
> 
> I'd be happy to collect it, but I don't have rack space I can put it in. :(

Are you in Amsterdam (and/or can get to XS4ALL by car)?

Using rack space isn't strictly necessary, you can also place such a
system on the floor or some table. It's just that it doesn't have the
typical dimensions of a work station.

Notice that there is a severe hardware flaw: the machine crashes after
about 1min of uptime (or when writing to the disk, or some such). It
might be easy to fix, or difficult - but one would probably need to
connect a monitor to find out.

Regards,
Martin

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Sun Aug 15 18:16:14 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:16:14 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=aYK8+7MTb_WW4K1DKFWzcQFeKy+V1q4NFDsHZ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 17:25, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Are you in Amsterdam (and/or can get to XS4ALL by car)?

Yes to both.

> Using rack space isn't strictly necessary, you can also place such a
> system on the floor or some table. It's just that it doesn't have the
> typical dimensions of a work station.

Well, sure, but I don't have that kind of space, either. We could
perhaps try to find another sponsor?

> Notice that there is a severe hardware flaw: the machine crashes after
> about 1min of uptime (or when writing to the disk, or some such). It
> might be easy to fix, or difficult - but one would probably need to
> connect a monitor to find out.

Hmm, okay.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 15 18:26:15 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:26:15 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=aYK8+7MTb_WW4K1DKFWzcQFeKy+V1q4NFDsHZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTi=aYK8+7MTb_WW4K1DKFWzcQFeKy+V1q4NFDsHZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C681527.9010807@v.loewis.de>

> Well, sure, but I don't have that kind of space, either. We could
> perhaps try to find another sponsor?

I have tried to - nobody wants it. They are unlikely to react positively
to the hardware problems, also.

So unless you step forward and say that you *want* the hardware (to
disassemble it, or do anything you like), I'm back to finding a way
to decommission it.

Regards,
Martin

From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Aug 15 19:08:21 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:08:21 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de>
	<20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de>
	<4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4C681F05.6060802@holdenweb.com>

On 8/15/2010 11:25 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> Am 15.08.2010 17:19, schrieb Dirkjan Ochtman:
>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 16:13, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I
>>> can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA.
>>
>> I'd be happy to collect it, but I don't have rack space I can put it in. :(
> 
> Are you in Amsterdam (and/or can get to XS4ALL by car)?
> 
> Using rack space isn't strictly necessary, you can also place such a
> system on the floor or some table. It's just that it doesn't have the
> typical dimensions of a work station.
> 
> Notice that there is a severe hardware flaw: the machine crashes after
> about 1min of uptime (or when writing to the disk, or some such). It
> might be easy to fix, or difficult - but one would probably need to
> connect a monitor to find out.

So it isn't a computer, it's scrap.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From barry at python.org  Mon Aug 16 16:33:06 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:33:06 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle)
In-Reply-To: <4C681527.9010807@v.loewis.de>
References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy>
	<4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com>
	<AANLkTin-hWuHcwpqF+c4ZoqA5igOsLJWRJ7QkhTgVJYB@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTi=aYK8+7MTb_WW4K1DKFWzcQFeKy+V1q4NFDsHZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C681527.9010807@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100816103306.2ca10376@heresy>

On Aug 15, 2010, at 06:26 PM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>> Well, sure, but I don't have that kind of space, either. We could
>> perhaps try to find another sponsor?
>
>I have tried to - nobody wants it. They are unlikely to react
>positively to the hardware problems, also.
>
>So unless you step forward and say that you *want* the hardware (to
>disassemble it, or do anything you like), I'm back to finding a way
>to decommission it.

Have you ever seen the movie Office Space?  Three words:

PC LOAD LETTER

:)

-Barry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100816/526233ce/attachment.pgp>

From amk at amk.ca  Thu Aug 19 01:52:08 2010
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:52:08 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one Jython
	page on the wiki
Message-ID: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local>

I confess that I don't really understand MoinMoin's ACLs.  Does anyone
know why Jim is unable to edit?  This might well predate the move to
dinsdale; I've noticed a few pages in the Jython wiki that I can't
edit, though my account is listed in the AdminGroup.

--amk
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Jim Baker <jbaker at zyasoft.com>
Subject: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:41:08 -0600
Size: 3928
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100818/4c33e420/attachment.mht>

From jbaker at zyasoft.com  Thu Aug 19 03:58:51 2010
From: jbaker at zyasoft.com (Jim Baker)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:58:51 -0600
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the
	wiki
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikS9eUh8wbzwuU29xahRS7ezVzvWd+VzWX-4xKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikS9eUh8wbzwuU29xahRS7ezVzvWd+VzWX-4xKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=HRFm2U4wuGSEmD+pRS=vGvZmEeh54aOfy-XKv@mail.gmail.com>

I sent this request directly to Andrew, but this may be the better list to
get support, or at least forward me on to the right one. Anyway I really
would like to update this obsolete page asap, since there's been a recent
bug report from a confused user (and I'm sure this is the proverbial tip of
the iceberg).

Thanks!

- Jim

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Baker <jbaker at zyasoft.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:41 PM
Subject: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki
To: Andrew Kuchling <amk at amk.ca>


Andrew,

For some reason my JimBaker account is blocked from editing this page:
http://wiki.python.org/jython/ReadlineSetup There may be more, it's just
this one is pretty much wrong now, with a recent user bug about it.

Naturally I would expect to edit any page in the Python wiki, but certainly
that should be the case for the Jython subset! :)

Sorry to ping you personally, I didn't see an admin email contact.

- Jim
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100818/7f3100f5/attachment.html>

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 19 21:32:15 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:32:15 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one
	Jython page on the wiki
In-Reply-To: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local>
References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local>
Message-ID: <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Thursday 19 August 2010 01:52:08 A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> I confess that I don't really understand MoinMoin's ACLs.  Does anyone
> know why Jim is unable to edit?  This might well predate the move to
> dinsdale; I've noticed a few pages in the Jython wiki that I can't
> edit, though my account is listed in the AdminGroup.

I can't edit, either, and I'm a member of AdminGroup (which may only have 
read/write privileges by default for all pages, rather than universal 
read/write privileges regardless of page ACLs, which is a matter of Wiki 
configuration) as well as the MoinPagesEditorGroup (which does have 
privileges on the page concerned).

Maybe something went wrong in the migration to the new machine. Perhaps the 
file permissions got modified in some way.

Paul

From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 19 22:48:11 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:48:11 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least
 one	Jython page on the wiki
In-Reply-To: <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local>
	<201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de>

> Maybe something went wrong in the migration to the new machine. Perhaps the 
> file permissions got modified in some way.

It looks all fine to me. They all belong to nobody, which is the uid
under which Apache runs.

Regards,
Martin

From sheep at sheep.art.pl  Thu Aug 19 23:30:03 2010
From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:30:03 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one
 Jython page on the wiki
In-Reply-To: <4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local>
	<201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik-b0E90jk=xTmPnuvtgFd9RjbGM1bcJiHwya3V@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:48 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> Maybe something went wrong in the migration to the new machine. Perhaps the
>> file permissions got modified in some way.
>
> It looks all fine to me. They all belong to nobody, which is the uid
> under which Apache runs.

If you created an user for me on the new server (copy the ssh key from ~sheep on
the old one), then I could look at the configuration and maybe find the problem.

-- 
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 19 23:48:36 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:48:36 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one
 Jython page on the wiki
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik-b0E90jk=xTmPnuvtgFd9RjbGM1bcJiHwya3V@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local>	<201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk>	<4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de>
	<AANLkTik-b0E90jk=xTmPnuvtgFd9RjbGM1bcJiHwya3V@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6DA6B4.5030703@v.loewis.de>

> If you created an user for me on the new server (copy the ssh key from ~sheep on
> the old one), then I could look at the configuration and maybe find the problem.

Done!

Martin

From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Mon Aug 23 10:03:44 2010
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:03:44 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Wearpython is down
Message-ID: <4C722B60.3020806@voidspace.org.uk>

  Hello Greg,

I believe you are one of the brains (or perhaps the brawn?) behind 
Wearpython? Currently the site is down and we link to it from the 
community section of python.org. Do you anticipate the site being 
reinstated soon, or should we remove the link?

All the best,

Michael Foord

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Wearpython is down
Date: 	Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:47:13 +0200
From: 	Daniel Biehle <dannybrain at gmail.com>
To: 	webmaster at python.org



Hello there,

I just wanted to let you know that on your merchandise area 
(/community/merchandise/"), when users click on
the WearPython link, they're being  redirected to 
http://69.164.205.220/ which is broken. Googling WearPython didn't
really help and www.wearpython.com <http://www.wearpython.com> neither.

Regards,
Daniel.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100823/b380bae2/attachment.html>

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 24 20:48:44 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:48:44 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www]
	http://www.python.org/community/awards/frank-willison/
Message-ID: <4C74140C.3050802@holdenweb.com>

This page needs updating - we need to add Mark Hammond for last year and
Chris Tismer for this.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/

From patcam at python.org  Tue Aug 24 22:56:59 2010
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:56:59 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www]
	http://www.python.org/community/awards/frank-willison/
In-Reply-To: <4C74140C.3050802@holdenweb.com>
References: <4C74140C.3050802@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikC8+M41izkDoYV9udDqNC4w+bLNp0VXxQ_xxjP@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Steve.
Pat

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> This page needs updating - we need to add Mark Hammond for last year and
> Chris Tismer for this.
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --
> Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
> DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010    http://djangocon.us/
> See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
> Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
>



-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100824/7ae49b05/attachment.html>

From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Wed Aug 25 20:15:44 2010
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:15:44 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Subversion / TortoiseSVN links on
	http://www.python.org/dev/faq/
Message-ID: <4C755DD0.6040201@voidspace.org.uk>

  Hey Brett,

(Also copied to pydotorg-www 'for the record'.)

It seems like there are some out of date links in the developer FAQ.

All the best,

Michael

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Subversion / TortoiseSVN links on http://www.python.org/dev/faq/
Date: 	Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:55:56 +0100
From: 	Tim Golden <Tim.Golden at cbsoutdoor.co.uk>
To: 	webmaster at python.org <webmaster at python.org>



The section at:

http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#version-control

include out-of-date links for Subversion, which has now moved to Apache. The
canonical address appears now to be:

Subversion: http://subversion.apache.org/
download Subversion: http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html

In addition, the download link for TortoiseSVN is out of date on http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#windows

download TortoiseSVN: http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads

Also, it might be prudent to remove the trunk URL from the section:

http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-get-a-checkout-of-the-repository-read-only-or-read-write

(All reported by Robert Kaplan)

TJG



Tim Golden
Senior Analyst Programmer

CBS Outdoor UK
Camden Wharf
28 Jamestown Road
London
NW1 7BY
T: 020 7482 3000
F: 020 7267 4944


http://www.cbsoutdoor.co.uk/
http://www.cbsoutdoor.co.uk/
http://www.facebook.com/cbsinnovate
Don't waste paper. Think before you print.
The contents of this e-mail are confidential to the ordinary user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed, and may also be privileged. If you are not the addressee of this e-mail you may not copy, forward, disclose or otherwise use it or any part of it in any form whatsoever. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. CBS Outdoor Ltd reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications from external/internal sources for the purposes of ensuring correct and appropriate use of CBS Outdoor facilities. CBS Outdoor Limited, registered in England and Wales with company number 02866133 and registered address at Camden Wharf, 28 Jamestown Road, London, NW1 7BY.


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100825/f62de05d/attachment.html>

From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Wed Aug 25 22:45:46 2010
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:45:46 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Misleading or incomplete 64-bit download
	information
Message-ID: <4C7580FA.4080307@voidspace.org.uk>

  Suggestion on adding some information about Windows 64bit builds to 
the download pages.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Misleading or incomplete 64-bit download information
Date: 	Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:10:20 -0400
From: 	Art Huston <art at arthuston.com>
To: 	webmaster at python.org



Hi,

Please consider adding a note on the Windows X86-64 MSI Installer
instructions to reflect the fact that while you can download the
64-bit version, you will sacrifice compatibility with 32-bit libraries
and utilities, many of which are not available in 64-bit. The existing
footnote "[1] The binaries for AMD64 will also work ..." is a bit
misleading or incomplete, since it encourages 64-bit OS users to
download the 64-bit version without mentioning the restrictions.

It could be placed in the text near the Windows X86-64 MSI Installer
link, or placed as an additional footnote. Also, please note that the
footnote "[1]" is not referenced anywhere else in the text and is easy
to overlook for that reason.

Best,
Art Huston

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Matthew Dixon Cowles<matt at mondoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Python-Help] python 2.7 not found installing setuptools on Windows
To: Art Huston<art at arthuston.com>
Cc: help at python.org


Dear Art,

>  That works just fine, great!

I'm glad it's working for you now.

>  [1]<http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/#id1>  The binaries
>  for AMD64 will also work on processors that implement the Intel 64
>  architecture (formerly EM64T), i.e. the architecture that Microsoft
>  calls x64, and AMD called x86-64 before calling it AMD64. They will
>  not work on Intel Itanium Processors (formerly IA-64).

>  Perhaps that's not the most useful information, and you should
>  advise using the 32-bit version?

It is perhaps a bit incomplete in that it doesn't mention that more
things are compiled to work with the 32-bit version. If you'd like to
email python.org's webmaster team to mention that, they might well
adjust the wording a bit.

Regards,
Matt

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100825/867b3bed/attachment.html>

From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 26 00:29:08 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:29:08 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Misleading or incomplete 64-bit download
 information
In-Reply-To: <4C7580FA.4080307@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <4C7580FA.4080307@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4C759934.6080607@v.loewis.de>

Am 25.08.2010 22:45, schrieb Michael Foord:
>  Suggestion on adding some information about Windows 64bit builds to the
> download pages.

Since this note is yours: feel free to change it. It is true that you
can't load a 32-bit extension into a 64-bit interpreter, or vice versa.
It also fails to mention that you not only need the processor, but also
a 64-bit version of Windows to run them.

I'm not sure how much of a 64-bit tutorial the release note need to be.
It fails to mention a lot of other things, also, e.g. that the maximum
value of the int type is different on a 64-bit python, that you may get
negative hashes on a 64-bit Python when you only get positive numbers
on a 32-bit Python, that all pointers require two times as much memory,
so that the memory consumption goes up, and that you can just as well
run the 32-bit Python version on a 64-bit Windows, etc.

In short: everybody confronted with 64-bit computing for the first
time will get confused about something, and then demand that this
specific something is prominently displayed in the documentation.

Regards,
Martin

From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Sun Aug 29 15:25:11 2010
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:25:11 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Python.org Blocks My ISP (CLEAR,
	formerly Clearwire)
Message-ID: <4C7A5FB7.30604@voidspace.org.uk>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Python.org Blocks My ISP (CLEAR, formerly Clearwire)
Date: 	Sat, 28 Aug 2010 22:32:07 -0500
From: 	Marcus Urban <mathpup at gmail.com>
To: 	webmaster at python.org



Your site seems to be blocking many IP addresses from my ISP, CLEAR
(formerly Clearwire), including the IP address 50.8.62.192. According,
to CLEAR, they recently purchased a block of IP addresses that were
previously allocated to a European ISP. These addresses are now being
used by CLEAR for customers like me in Texas and possibly other parts
of the USA.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100829/bc815e6e/attachment.html>

From gslindstrom at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 17:09:30 2010
From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:09:30 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wearpython is down
In-Reply-To: <4C722B60.3020806@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <4C722B60.3020806@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikDOnKn3oXZGPQZSDPRvTp2N_6R5dS73Qqf5Uz3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael,

We have been trying to get a Satchmo-based web site up for quote a while now
but it is just beyond what I am able to do.  We have had two or three people
say they'd help us, but it hasn't worked out.

Janet, who tightly controls every imaginable aspect of the business,
mentioned that she might be able to get a site up.  Perhaps she has looked
into it.  Otherwise, I would suggest you remove the link until we are able
to get something up.

Thanks,
--greg

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:03 AM, Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk>wrote:

>  Hello Greg,
>
> I believe you are one of the brains (or perhaps the brawn?) behind
> Wearpython? Currently the site is down and we link to it from the community
> section of python.org. Do you anticipate the site being reinstated soon,
> or should we remove the link?
>
> All the best,
>
> Michael Foord
>
> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: Wearpython is down  Date: Sun,
> 22 Aug 2010 14:47:13 +0200  From: Daniel Biehle <dannybrain at gmail.com><dannybrain at gmail.com>  To:
> webmaster at python.org
>
> Hello there,
>
>  I just wanted to let you know that on your merchandise area
> (/community/merchandise/"), when users click on
> the WearPython link, they're being  redirected to http://69.164.205.220/ which
> is broken. Googling WearPython didn't
> really help and www.wearpython.com neither.
>
>  Regards,
> Daniel.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100823/1801f48e/attachment.html>

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sun Aug 29 18:54:33 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:54:33 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Pydotorg] Fwd: Python.org Blocks My ISP (CLEAR,
 formerly Clearwire)
In-Reply-To: <4C7A5FB7.30604@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <4C7A5FB7.30604@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20100829165433.GB10334@charite.de>

* Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk>:

> Your site seems to be blocking many IP addresses from my ISP, CLEAR
> (formerly Clearwire), including the IP address 50.8.62.192.

You're talking about email?
I'll check that

> According, to CLEAR, they recently purchased a block of IP addresses
> that were previously allocated to a European ISP. These addresses are
> now being used by CLEAR for customers like me in Texas and possibly
> other parts of the USA.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From webmaster at python.org  Mon Aug 30 10:49:03 2010
From: webmaster at python.org (Python.org Team)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:49:03 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Python license
Message-ID: <4C7B707F.3050802@python.org>

  See Marc-Andre's comments about making the license more prominent on 
the website.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Python license
Date: 	Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:42:51 +0200
From: 	M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com>
Organization: 	eGenix.com Software GmbH; http://www.egenix.com/
To: 	webmaster at python.org



Dear webmasters,

while discussing an issue related to the Python download page and crypto
code:

http://bugs.python.org/issue9119

I found that the Python license is not well presented on the python.org
website. Here's the snippet from the ticket discussion:

"""
I have a little trouble actually finding the license text on
the python.org web-site. It is not mentioned on the download page,
there's no mention of it in the downloads nav bar, nor in the documentation
section of the site.

Only the "about" section includes a mention of the
license and the "foundation" section even mentions it in the nav bar
(but that's not where people would look to find it). What's worse:
all links point to:

http://www.python.org/psf/license/

and that page refers to the Python 2.6.2 license...
"""

I'd suggest that the "download", "documentation" and "about" section
include a "license" link to http://www.python.org/psf/license/ - or
just make it a top-level nav bar entry.

This page would then need to be updated to point to
http://docs.python.org/license.html instead of the 2.6.2 license.

The download pages themselves should also include a link to this
license page (possibly versioned, e.g.
http://docs.python.org/release/2.6.2/license.html), but I'm not
sure whether this is part of the site or the release process
setup.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 27 2010)
>>>  Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>>  mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>>  mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2010-08-19: Released mxODBC 3.1.0              http://python.egenix.com/
2010-09-15: DZUG Tagung, Dresden, Germany                  18 days to go

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


    eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
     D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
            Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
                http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/attachments/20100830/baf61a9c/attachment-0001.html>

From ode5002 at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Aug 31 22:52:12 2010
From: ode5002 at blueyonder.co.uk (ode)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:52:12 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] No mention of 'From Python Import Podcast' Podcast
Message-ID: <4C7D6B7C.1030705@blueyonder.co.uk>

I was viewing http://www.python.org/doc/av/ and
http://advocacy.python.org/podcasts/ and noticed that the new
'From Python Import Podcast' podcast -
http://frompythonimportpodcast.com/ is absent.