From thomas at python.org  Sun Jan  1 13:45:34 2012
From: thomas at python.org (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 13:45:34 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] dinsdale rebooted
In-Reply-To: <loom.20111230T143659-400@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20111230T143659-400@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPdQG2rMQjd-hGZSMtpRnuAYsd5R732zxvPYvK-QtLoNuSia-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 14:37, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> dinsdale was unresponsive (all the services) so I've rebooted it. The
> services
> should go back online after the boot sequence is finished.
> (hopefully I didn't mess with anything when doing that)
>
> Dinsdale was hanging again just now. This time the serial console was
still attached to the screen session run by psf at xs8.xs4all.nl, and
the output before it hung is at the bottom of the message. Also, I noticed
ssh wasn't coming up, probably because the pypissh startup script confused
the ssh startup script. I had to kill pypissh, start ssh and then start
pypissh. changed the pypissh startup script to run after ssh, although
making it so those two ssh daemons don't clash is probably a good idea. (It
probably amounts to changing a pidfile in one of the configs, but I don't
know.) Also, /etc/init.d/pypi doesn't seem to get started succesfully; I
just started it manually, I haven't looked at why it didn't work.

[167859.929516] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167859.995231] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.060854] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.126479] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.192108] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.257730] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.323355] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.388980] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.454609] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.520231] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.585858] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.651483] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.717112] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.782734] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167860.848372] aacraid: Host adapter reset request. SCSI hang ?
[167921.157255] aacraid: SCSI bus appears hung
[167941.209255] aacraid: Host adapter abort request (0,0,0,0)
[167941.274920] sd 0:0:0:0: Device offlined - not ready after error recovery
[167941.356208] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167941.414545] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167941.503157] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 05 95 2b 47 00 00
08 00
[167941.588847] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 93662023
[167941.657600] Buffer I/O error on device sda6, logical block 1940225
[167941.732585] lost page write due to I/O error on sda6
[167941.793027] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167941.851356] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167941.939965] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 00 ff 68 3f 00 00
08 00
[167942.025664] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 16738367
[167942.094413] Buffer I/O error on device sda1, logical block 2092288
[167942.169396] lost page write due to I/O error on sda1
[167942.229827] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167942.288164] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167942.376776] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 00 00 00 3f 00 00
10 00
[167942.462471] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 63
[167942.524978] Buffer I/O error on device sda1, logical block 0
[167942.593722] lost page write due to I/O error on sda1
[167942.654152] Buffer I/O error on device sda1, logical block 1
[167942.722895] lost page write due to I/O error on sda1
[167942.783323] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167942.841665] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167942.930277] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 00 fc 00 47 00 00
08 00
[167943.015969] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 16515143
[167943.084721] Buffer I/O error on device sda1, logical block 2064385
[167943.159705] lost page write due to I/O error on sda1
[167943.220136] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167943.278476] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167943.367086] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 04 c4 b2 8f 00 00
10 00
[167943.452778] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 79999631
[167943.521534] Buffer I/O error on device sda6, logical block 232426
[167943.595475] lost page write due to I/O error on sda6
[167943.655905] Buffer I/O error on device sda6, logical block 232427
[167943.729848] lost page write due to I/O error on sda6
[167943.790282] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167943.848620] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167943.937227] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 05 87 45 67 00 00
08 00
[167944.022926] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 92751207
[167944.091674] Buffer I/O error on device sda6, logical block 1826373
[167944.166657] lost page write due to I/O error on sda6
[167944.227087] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167944.285429] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167944.374040] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 05 93 57 2f 00 00
08 00
[167944.459731] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 93542191
[167944.528483] Buffer I/O error on device sda6, logical block 1925246
[167944.603467] lost page write due to I/O error on sda6
[167944.663899] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167944.722239] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167944.810851] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 05 95 03 bf 00 00
08 00
[167944.896542] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 93651903
[167944.965295] Buffer I/O error on device sda6, logical block 1938960
[167945.040280] lost page write due to I/O error on sda6
[167945.100708] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167945.159051] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167945.247660] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 05 95 03 c7 00 00
08 00
[167945.333357] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 93651911
[167945.402111] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167945.460449] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167945.549061] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 05 95 10 6f 00 00
08 00
[167945.634757] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 93655151
[167945.703513] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167945.761850] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167945.850461] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 0a 88 e8 e7 00 00
08 00
[167945.936152] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 176744679
[167946.005950] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167946.064287] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167946.152901] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 0a 8e 78 0f 00 00
50 00
[167946.238596] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 177109007
[167946.308388] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167946.366729] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167946.455338] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 03 86 be fe 00 00
08 00
[167946.541031] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 59162366
[167946.609788] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code
[167946.668128] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
driverbyte=DRIVER_TIMEOUT
[167946.756738] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Write(10): 2a 00 00 fc 00 4f 00 00
08 00
[167946.842434] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 16515151
[167946.911189] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167946.972002] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167946.974734] ext3_journal_dirty_data: aborting transaction: IO failure
in ext3_journal_dirty_data
[167946.974740] EXT3-fs error (device sda6) in ext3_orphan_add: Readonly
filesystem
[167947.232753] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.232972] ext3_journal_dirty_data: aborting transaction: IO failure
in ext3_journal_dirty_data
[167947.232977] EXT3-fs error (device sda6) in ext3_orphan_add: Readonly
filesystem
[167947.491224] ext3_journal_dirty_data: aborting transaction: IO failure
in ext3_journal_dirty_data
[167947.491877] JBD: Detected IO errors while flushing file data on sda7
[167947.491907] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.491918] Aborting journal on device sda7.
[167947.491924] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.491952] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.491962] JBD: Detected IO errors while flushing file data on sda7
[167947.492262] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492271] EXT3-fs error (device sda6) in ext3_ordered_write_end: IO
failure
[167947.492275] ------------[ cut here ]------------
[167947.492279] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492286] WARNING: at
/build/buildd-linux-2.6_2.6.32-38-i386-G9QRBd/linux-2.6-2.6.32/debian/build/source_i386_none/fs/buffer.c:1160
mark_buffer_dirty+0x20/0x7a()
[167947.492290] EXT3-fs error (device sda6) in ext3_ordered_write_end: IO
failure
[167947.492299] Hardware name: X7DBR-3
[167947.492302] ------------[ cut here ]------------
[167947.492303] Modules linked in:
[167947.492312] WARNING: at
/build/buildd-linux-2.6_2.6.32-38-i386-G9QRBd/linux-2.6-2.6.32/debian/build/source_i386_none/fs/buffer.c:1160
mark_buffer_dirty+0x20/0x7a()
[167947.492313]  tcp_diag
[167947.492316] Hardware name: X7DBR-3
[167947.492316]  inet_diag
[167947.492319] Modules linked in: loop tcp_diag snd_pcm inet_diag
snd_timer loop snd snd_pcm radeon snd_timer ttm snd drm_kms_helper radeon
drm ttm soundcore drm_kms_helper snd_page_alloc drm edac_core soundcore
i2c_algo_bit snd_page_alloc i2c_i801 edac_core rng_core i2c_algo_bit
ioatdma i2c_i801 i2c_core rng_core i5k_amb ioatdma evdev i2c_core dca
i5k_amb container evdev psmouse dca pcspkr container joydev psmouse
processor pcspkr button joydev shpchp processor pci_hotplug button
serio_raw shpchp ext3 pci_hotplug jbd serio_raw mbcache ext3 sd_mod jbd
crc_t10dif mbcache usbhid sd_mod usb_storage crc_t10dif hid usbhid sg
usb_storage sr_mod hid cdrom sg ata_generic sr_mod ata_piix cdrom libata
ata_generic uhci_hcd ata_piix ehci_hcd libata usbcore uhci_hcd aacraid
ehci_hcd nls_base usbcore floppy aacraid scsi_mod nls_base thermal floppy
e1000e scsi_mod thermal_sys thermal [last unloaded: i5000_edac] e1000e
[167947.492418]  thermal_sysPid: 30175, comm: apache2 Not tainted
2.6.32-5-686-bigmem #1
[167947.492422]  [last unloaded: i5000_edac]Call Trace:
[167947.492424]
[167947.492428]  [<c1036819>] ? warn_slowpath_common+0x5e/0x8a
[167947.492432] Pid: 5045, comm: nginx Not tainted 2.6.32-5-686-bigmem #1
[167947.492435] Call Trace:
[167947.492436]  [<c103684f>] ? warn_slowpath_null+0xa/0xc
[167947.492444]  [<c1036819>] ? warn_slowpath_common+0x5e/0x8a
[167947.492446]  [<c10d5b68>] ? mark_buffer_dirty+0x20/0x7a
[167947.492450]  [<c103684f>] ? warn_slowpath_null+0xa/0xc
[167947.492457]  [<f8511fec>] ? ext3_commit_super+0x40/0x56 [ext3]
[167947.492462]  [<c10d5b68>] ? mark_buffer_dirty+0x20/0x7a
[167947.492466]  [<f8513556>] ? ext3_handle_error+0x6e/0x8e [ext3]
[167947.492474]  [<f8511fec>] ? ext3_commit_super+0x40/0x56 [ext3]
[167947.492478]  [<f85135ca>] ? __ext3_std_error+0x54/0x6f [ext3]
[167947.492485]  [<f8513556>] ? ext3_handle_error+0x6e/0x8e [ext3]
[167947.492489]  [<f8510e15>] ? ext3_orphan_add+0x133/0x13d [ext3]
[167947.492496]  [<f85135ca>] ? __ext3_std_error+0x54/0x6f [ext3]
[167947.492500]  [<f8514bd6>] ? __ext3_journal_stop+0x2e/0x34 [ext3]
[167947.492508]  [<f8510e15>] ? ext3_orphan_add+0x133/0x13d [ext3]
[167947.492511]  [<f850dfcf>] ? ext3_ordered_write_end+0x103/0x141 [ext3]
[167947.492519]  [<f8514bd6>] ? __ext3_journal_stop+0x2e/0x34 [ext3]
[167947.492522]  [<c108ec56>] ? generic_file_buffered_write+0x12f/0x21d
[167947.492529]  [<f850dfcf>] ? ext3_ordered_write_end+0x103/0x141 [ext3]
[167947.492533]  [<c10d0f7f>] ? __mark_inode_dirty+0x4f/0x10b
[167947.492539]  [<c108ec56>] ? generic_file_buffered_write+0x12f/0x21d
[167947.492541]  [<c10d0f7f>] ? __mark_inode_dirty+0x4f/0x10b
[167947.492548]  [<c10d0f50>] ? __mark_inode_dirty+0x20/0x10b
[167947.492549]  [<c108f141>] ? __generic_file_aio_write+0x265/0x28d
[167947.492555]  [<c10d0f50>] ? __mark_inode_dirty+0x20/0x10b
[167947.492557]  [<c108f1ba>] ? generic_file_aio_write+0x51/0x93
[167947.492561]  [<c108f141>] ? __generic_file_aio_write+0x265/0x28d
[167947.492564]  [<c10bad8a>] ? do_sync_write+0xc0/0x107
[167947.492569]  [<c108f1ba>] ? generic_file_aio_write+0x51/0x93
[167947.492572]  [<c104a65a>] ? autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x2d
[167947.492578]  [<c10bad8a>] ? do_sync_write+0xc0/0x107
[167947.492580]  [<c100e56d>] ? restore_i387_xstate+0x18b/0x1c5
[167947.492587]  [<c104a65a>] ? autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x2d
[167947.492589]  [<c10517d5>] ? ktime_get_ts+0xcd/0xd5
[167947.492596]  [<c10419e7>] ? process_timeout+0x0/0x5
[167947.492599]  [<c110a5ec>] ? security_file_permission+0xc/0xd
[167947.492605]  [<c110a5ec>] ? security_file_permission+0xc/0xd
[167947.492607]  [<c10bacca>] ? do_sync_write+0x0/0x107
[167947.492612]  [<c10bacca>] ? do_sync_write+0x0/0x107
[167947.492613]  [<c10bb694>] ? vfs_write+0x7e/0xd6
[167947.492619]  [<c10bb694>] ? vfs_write+0x7e/0xd6
[167947.492620]  [<c10bb784>] ? sys_write+0x3c/0x63
[167947.492625]  [<c10bb784>] ? sys_write+0x3c/0x63
[167947.492627]  [<c100813b>] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x28
[167947.492633]  [<c100813b>] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x28
[167947.492633] ---[ end trace b1ce6e14442deb83 ]---
[167947.492637] ---[ end trace b1ce6e14442deb84 ]---
[167947.492642] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492656] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492771] JBD: Detected IO errors while flushing file data on sda6
[167947.492827] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492841] Aborting journal on device sda6.
[167947.492847] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492878] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492891] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492893] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492896] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167947.492900] JBD: Detected IO errors while flushing file data on sda6
[167947.492908] ext3_abort called.
[167947.492909] EXT3-fs error (device sda6): ext3_journal_start_sb:
Detected aborted journal
[167947.492911] Remounting filesystem read-only
[167948.789653] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789665] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789668] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789670] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789681] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789684] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789686] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789689] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789698] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789701] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789703] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789706] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789725] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789727] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789730] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789733] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789755] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789758] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789760] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789763] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789774] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789777] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789780] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789783] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789812] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789815] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789817] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789821] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167948.789862] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167951.447167] ext3_abort called.
[167951.447169] EXT3-fs error (device sda7): ext3_journal_start_sb:
Detected aborted journal
[167951.447171] Remounting filesystem read-only
[167951.447234] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167951.447237] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537864)
[167951.447250] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167951.447252] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537872)
[167951.447254] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537880)
[167951.447255] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537888)
[167951.447257] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537896)
[167951.447258] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537904)
[167951.447260] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537912)
[167951.447262] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19537920)
[167956.824349] EXT3-fs error (device sda5) in ext3_orphan_add: Readonly
filesystem
[167956.912908] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167956.976448] EXT3-fs error (device sda5) in ext3_ordered_write_end: IO
failure
[167957.062870] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167957.126425] JBD: Detected IO errors while flushing file data on sda5
[167957.129510] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167957.129516] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167957.129519] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167957.132468] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167957.132478] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536008)
[167957.132492] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167957.132493] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536016)
[167957.132495] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536024)
[167957.132497] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536032)
[167957.132499] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536040)
[167957.132501] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536048)
[167957.132502] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536056)
[167957.132504] Read-error on swap-device (8:0:19536064)
[167958.004671] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167958.068266] Aborting journal on device sda5.
[167958.120369] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167958.183931] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167958.187910] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167958.288207] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[167958.374565] JBD: Detected IO errors while flushing file data on sda5
[167958.451617] __journal_remove_journal_head: freeing b_committed_data
[167976.530135] ext3_abort called.
[167976.567712] EXT3-fs error (device sda5): ext3_journal_start_sb:
Detected aborted journal
[167976.665784] Remounting filesystem read-only
[168013.893734] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168013.957365] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.020960] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.084609] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.148203] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.211798] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.275393] EXT3-fs error (device sda7): ext3_find_entry: reading
directory #14861767 offset 0
[168014.379731] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.443359] EXT3-fs error (device sda7): ext3_find_entry: reading
directory #14861741 offset 0
[168014.547726] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.611328] EXT3-fs error (device sda7): ext3_find_entry: reading
directory #14861741 offset 0
[168014.716623] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.780268] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.843914] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.908658] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168014.972264] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.035905] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.100436] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.164035] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.227686] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.292817] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.356441] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.420090] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.484825] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.548429] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.612086] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.676521] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.740108] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.803754] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.868873] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.932511] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168015.996165] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.060879] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.124500] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.188147] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.252578] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.316175] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.379825] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.445540] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.509207] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168016.572853] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168019.941290] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168020.004910] Aborting journal on device sda3.
[168020.056999] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168613.893951] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168613.957616] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.021234] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.085903] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.149574] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.213219] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.278024] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.341661] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.405314] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.469743] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.533339] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.596986] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.662152] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.725744] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.789390] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.854123] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.917734] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168614.981384] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.045813] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.109409] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.173059] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.238709] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.302345] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.365985] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.430698] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.494327] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.557969] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.622386] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.686002] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.749661] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.815303] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.878924] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
[168615.942579] sd 0:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device


-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at python.org>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me
spread!
-------------- next part --------------
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From mal at egenix.com  Sun Jan  1 15:37:00 2012
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:37:00 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] dinsdale rebooted
In-Reply-To: <CAPdQG2rMQjd-hGZSMtpRnuAYsd5R732zxvPYvK-QtLoNuSia-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <loom.20111230T143659-400@post.gmane.org>
	<CAPdQG2rMQjd-hGZSMtpRnuAYsd5R732zxvPYvK-QtLoNuSia-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F006F8C.1010905@egenix.com>

Thomas Wouters wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 14:37, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> dinsdale was unresponsive (all the services) so I've rebooted it. The
>> services
>> should go back online after the boot sequence is finished.
>> (hopefully I didn't mess with anything when doing that)
>>
> Dinsdale was hanging again just now. This time the serial console was
> still attached to the screen session run by psf at xs8.xs4all.nl, and
> the output before it hung is at the bottom of the message. Also, I noticed
> ssh wasn't coming up, probably because the pypissh startup script confused
> the ssh startup script. I had to kill pypissh, start ssh and then start
> pypissh. changed the pypissh startup script to run after ssh, although
> making it so those two ssh daemons don't clash is probably a good idea. (It
> probably amounts to changing a pidfile in one of the configs, but I don't
> know.) Also, /etc/init.d/pypi doesn't seem to get started succesfully; I
> just started it manually, I haven't looked at why it didn't work.

Looks like the /dev/sda disk is broken. Could you run smartctl
on the drive and check that smartd is running on dinsdale (and sending
emails to this list or pydotorg) ?

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Jan  1 17:29:57 2012
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 16:29:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pydotorg-www] dinsdale rebooted
References: <loom.20111230T143659-400@post.gmane.org>
	<CAPdQG2rMQjd-hGZSMtpRnuAYsd5R732zxvPYvK-QtLoNuSia-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F006F8C.1010905@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20120101T172753-231@post.gmane.org>

M.-A. Lemburg <mal at ...> writes:
> Looks like the /dev/sda disk is broken. Could you run smartctl
> on the drive and check that smartd is running on dinsdale (and sending
> emails to this list or pydotorg) ?

It's an Adaptec RAID controller. Someone should perhaps check whether one of the
drives in the RAID array needs replacement.
Also, it seems there may be issues with some Adaptec firmware versions:
https://forums.openfiler.com/viewtopic.php?id=2162

Regards

Antoine.



From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Tue Jan  3 12:28:25 2012
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:28:25 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: broken links on SIG ULS
References: <584381fbfeb1334a943a636caaa10b4e.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <C7183A33-39C2-4EDC-BFAF-A787C5DFC275@voidspace.org.uk>

I'm not sure who the sig-owner is here.

Michael

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "K. Sauceda" <solver at sonic.net>
> Subject: broken links on SIG ULS
> Date: 3 January 2012 05:39:30 GMT
> To: webmaster at python.org
> Reply-To: solver at sonic.net
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was just browsing the SIG description pages and found some broken links
> to references that sounded very interesting. The page "SIG for Ultra
> Large-Scale Systems" and is at
> http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/uls-sig/
> 
> In the third paragrpah and first sentence, the link to the "official
> report" is dead. http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/ULS_Book2006.pdf
> Doing some searching I found this link which is the report I believe is
> being referenced.
> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/books/0978695607.cfm
> 
> In the third paragraph and third sentence, the link to the "fairly concise
> summary" is dead.
> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/OOPSLA06.pdf
> That one was easier to find as the file name is the same and it is at
> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/assets/oopsla06.pdf
> 
> In the fourth paragrap and first sentence, the link to "another
> presentation" is dead.
> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/roadmap.pdf
> Not really sure where that was going despite some digging at sei.cmu.edu.
> 
> Thanks folks!
> 
> Peace,
> Ren
> 
> -- 
> Katherine "Ren" Sauceda
> 415-828-6603
> 
> "How you think about a problem is more
> important than the problem itself."
>  Norman Vincent Peale
> 
> 
> 


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Tue Jan  3 12:29:02 2012
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:29:02 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: broken links on SIG ULS
References: <968f558a678361e730801062bb5734e8.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <66D8BF7A-29D4-4E53-84AF-2223526EF5A0@voidspace.org.uk>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: "K. Sauceda" <solver at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: broken links on SIG ULS
> Date: 3 January 2012 05:45:00 GMT
> To: solver at sonic.net
> Cc: webmaster at python.org
> Reply-To: solver at sonic.net
> 
> An update ...
> 
>> 
>> In the fourth paragrap and first sentence, the link to "another
>> presentation" is dead.
>> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/roadmap.pdf
>> Not really sure where that was going despite some digging at sei.cmu.edu.
> 
> Ah. One last look around using a different search page at CMU resulted in
> the correct hit I believe. This documents contents match even the page
> references made on your site.
> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/assets/ulsroadmap.pdf
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> -- 
> Katherine "Ren" Sauceda
> 415-828-6603
> 
> "How you think about a problem is more
> important than the problem itself."
>  Norman Vincent Peale
> 
> 
> 


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From barry at python.org  Tue Jan  3 13:26:26 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 07:26:26 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: broken links on SIG ULS
In-Reply-To: <C7183A33-39C2-4EDC-BFAF-A787C5DFC275@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <584381fbfeb1334a943a636caaa10b4e.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
	<C7183A33-39C2-4EDC-BFAF-A787C5DFC275@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20120103072626.5e283fcf@limelight.wooz.org>

This page:

http://www.python.org/community/sigs/

says the uls-sig owner is Duncan McGreggor.  Cc'd.

-Barry

On Jan 03, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Michael Foord wrote:

>I'm not sure who the sig-owner is here.
>
>Michael
>
>Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "K. Sauceda" <solver at sonic.net>
>> Subject: broken links on SIG ULS
>> Date: 3 January 2012 05:39:30 GMT
>> To: webmaster at python.org
>> Reply-To: solver at sonic.net
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I was just browsing the SIG description pages and found some broken links
>> to references that sounded very interesting. The page "SIG for Ultra
>> Large-Scale Systems" and is at
>> http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/uls-sig/
>> 
>> In the third paragrpah and first sentence, the link to the "official
>> report" is dead. http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/ULS_Book2006.pdf
>> Doing some searching I found this link which is the report I believe is
>> being referenced.
>> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/books/0978695607.cfm
>> 
>> In the third paragraph and third sentence, the link to the "fairly concise
>> summary" is dead.
>> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/OOPSLA06.pdf
>> That one was easier to find as the file name is the same and it is at
>> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/assets/oopsla06.pdf
>> 
>> In the fourth paragrap and first sentence, the link to "another
>> presentation" is dead.
>> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/roadmap.pdf
>> Not really sure where that was going despite some digging at sei.cmu.edu.
>> 
>> Thanks folks!
>> 
>> Peace,
>> Ren
>> 
>> -- 
>> Katherine "Ren" Sauceda
>> 415-828-6603
>> 
>> "How you think about a problem is more
>> important than the problem itself."
>>  Norman Vincent Peale
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>--
>http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
>
>
>May you do good and not evil
>May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
>May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
>-- the sqlite blessing 
>http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>pydotorg-www mailing list
>pydotorg-www at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
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From duncan.mcgreggor at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 23:46:11 2012
From: duncan.mcgreggor at gmail.com (Duncan McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 14:46:11 -0800
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: broken links on SIG ULS
In-Reply-To: <20120103072626.5e283fcf@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <584381fbfeb1334a943a636caaa10b4e.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
	<C7183A33-39C2-4EDC-BFAF-A787C5DFC275@voidspace.org.uk>
	<20120103072626.5e283fcf@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20120103224611.GF49892@cadltx01.local>

Thanks Barry!

Following up with Ren now...

d

On 03 Jan 2012 - 07:26, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> This page:
>
> http://www.python.org/community/sigs/
>
> says the uls-sig owner is Duncan McGreggor.  Cc'd.
>
> -Barry
>
> On Jan 03, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
>
> >I'm not sure who the sig-owner is here.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >> From: "K. Sauceda" <solver at sonic.net>
> >> Subject: broken links on SIG ULS
> >> Date: 3 January 2012 05:39:30 GMT
> >> To: webmaster at python.org
> >> Reply-To: solver at sonic.net
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I was just browsing the SIG description pages and found some broken links
> >> to references that sounded very interesting. The page "SIG for Ultra
> >> Large-Scale Systems" and is at
> >> http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/uls-sig/
> >>
> >> In the third paragrpah and first sentence, the link to the "official
> >> report" is dead. http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/ULS_Book2006.pdf
> >> Doing some searching I found this link which is the report I believe is
> >> being referenced.
> >> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/books/0978695607.cfm
> >>
> >> In the third paragraph and third sentence, the link to the "fairly concise
> >> summary" is dead.
> >> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/OOPSLA06.pdf
> >> That one was easier to find as the file name is the same and it is at
> >> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/assets/oopsla06.pdf
> >>
> >> In the fourth paragrap and first sentence, the link to "another
> >> presentation" is dead.
> >> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/uls/files/roadmap.pdf
> >> Not really sure where that was going despite some digging at sei.cmu.edu.
> >>
> >> Thanks folks!
> >>
> >> Peace,
> >> Ren
> >>
> >> --
> >> Katherine "Ren" Sauceda
> >> 415-828-6603
> >>
> >> "How you think about a problem is more
> >> important than the problem itself."
> >>  Norman Vincent Peale
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> >
> >
> >May you do good and not evil
> >May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> >May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> >-- the sqlite blessing
> >http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >pydotorg-www mailing list
> >pydotorg-www at python.org
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www



From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 11:57:07 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 13:57:07 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de> <201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:

> anatoly techtonik wrote:
> > 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
> > more objections to do
> > required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
> > people could directly
> > say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7 days?
>
> I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
> can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having
> wiki.python.org
> redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
> redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
> or short and neither do mice :-)


I find these -1 reasons are funny. =) I can repeat the counter-arguments
that shorter URLs are better not only in address bars, but also for posting
links and navigating search results, but the point is:

- this configuration change is a one-time, standard, common, not-a-hack
solution for a traditional problem, that MoinMoin is designed to resolve,
and it is a small price of admin's time to make a small group of people,
who also care about Python wiki feel a little bit more happy

Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
confusion.
-- 
anatoly t.
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From mal at egenix.com  Thu Jan  5 12:11:40 2012
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:11:40 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de>
	<201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> 
>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
>>> more objections to do
>>> required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
>>> people could directly
>>> say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7 days?
>>
>> I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
>> can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having
>> wiki.python.org
>> redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
>> redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
>> or short and neither do mice :-)
> 
> 
> I find these -1 reasons are funny. =) I can repeat the counter-arguments
> that shorter URLs are better not only in address bars, but also for posting
> links and navigating search results, but the point is:
> 
> - this configuration change is a one-time, standard, common, not-a-hack
> solution for a traditional problem, that MoinMoin is designed to resolve,
> and it is a small price of admin's time to make a small group of people,
> who also care about Python wiki feel a little bit more happy

I do care about the Python wikis being both an admin and user of
them, and I feel that the maintenance and documentation overhead
of your solution doesn't warrant the change.

> Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
> complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
> answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
> confusion.

If you can show that adding new wikis to this setup is easy and
doesn't require setting up new domains, I'll change my mind.

The way I read your proposal, it only works if you put the
wiki instances each under their own sub domain (with all the
admin and maintenance overhead that goes with it).

If you're after better navigation, it may make more sense,
changing the prefix from /moin/ to /python/, so that the
URLs read:

http://wiki.python.org/python/
http://wiki.python.org/jython/
http://wiki.python.org/psf/

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jan 05 2012)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 15:39:19 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:39:19 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de> <201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 2:11 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:

> anatoly techtonik wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> >
> >> anatoly techtonik wrote:
> >>> 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
> >>> more objections to do
> >>> required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
> >>> people could directly
> >>> say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7
> days?
> >>
> >> I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
> >> can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having
> >> wiki.python.org
> >> redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
> >> redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
> >> or short and neither do mice :-)
> >
> >
> > I find these -1 reasons are funny. =) I can repeat the counter-arguments
> > that shorter URLs are better not only in address bars, but also for
> posting
> > links and navigating search results, but the point is:
> >
> > - this configuration change is a one-time, standard, common, not-a-hack
> > solution for a traditional problem, that MoinMoin is designed to resolve,
> > and it is a small price of admin's time to make a small group of people,
> > who also care about Python wiki feel a little bit more happy
>
> I do care about the Python wikis being both an admin and user of
> them, and I feel that the maintenance and documentation overhead
> of your solution doesn't warrant the change.
>

Is the current setup documented anywhere at all?
If you point to the document, we can remove the burden of providing
necessary instructions from you and stop talking about "overhead" in
abstract terms by providing real diff of the changes.

> Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
> > complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
> > answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
> > confusion.
>
> If you can show that adding new wikis to this setup is easy and
> doesn't require setting up new domains, I'll change my mind.
>

If the real problem is in setting up new domains then we can discuss it in
this thread or in different - as you wish. Don't you use DynDNS or
alternative ?

As for showing you new setup and how to add new domains there, we need at
least least old config available from somewhere. Do you have a link to
repository?


The way I read your proposal, it only works if you put the
> wiki instances each under their own sub domain (with all the
> admin and maintenance overhead that goes with it).
>

It is hard for me to estimate the overhead you are speaking about. It will
be more productive to start with actual config files and description of the
current setup. If it is Apache that is hard to maintain, we can switch to
Nginx. If the overall config is too complicated there is Puppet and plenty
of other admin helpers. Just describe this overhead problem.


> If you're after better navigation, it may make more sense,
> changing the prefix from /moin/ to /python/, so that the
> URLs read:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/python/
> http://wiki.python.org/jython/
> http://wiki.python.org/psf/



BTW, that is the current bus factor for wiki.python.org ?  If it is so hard
to maintain, maybe you just need more people to help?

-- 
anatoly t.
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jan  5 18:00:24 2012
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 09:00:24 -0800
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de>
	<201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120105170023.GA15200@panix.com>

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>
> Is the current setup documented anywhere at all?
> If you point to the document, we can remove the burden of providing
> necessary instructions from you and stop talking about "overhead" in
> abstract terms by providing real diff of the changes.

What "we"?  AFAICT, you have not done any actual work to improve the
website, only putting forth a constant series of suggested changes for
other people to deal with.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich

From mal at egenix.com  Thu Jan  5 19:38:21 2012
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 19:38:21 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de>
	<201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 2:11 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> 
>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>>>> 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
>>>>> more objections to do
>>>>> required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
>>>>> people could directly
>>>>> say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7
>> days?
>>>>
>>>> I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
>>>> can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having
>>>> wiki.python.org
>>>> redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
>>>> redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
>>>> or short and neither do mice :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I find these -1 reasons are funny. =) I can repeat the counter-arguments
>>> that shorter URLs are better not only in address bars, but also for
>> posting
>>> links and navigating search results, but the point is:
>>>
>>> - this configuration change is a one-time, standard, common, not-a-hack
>>> solution for a traditional problem, that MoinMoin is designed to resolve,
>>> and it is a small price of admin's time to make a small group of people,
>>> who also care about Python wiki feel a little bit more happy
>>
>> I do care about the Python wikis being both an admin and user of
>> them, and I feel that the maintenance and documentation overhead
>> of your solution doesn't warrant the change.
>>
> 
> Is the current setup documented anywhere at all?
> If you point to the document, we can remove the burden of providing
> necessary instructions from you and stop talking about "overhead" in
> abstract terms by providing real diff of the changes.

The PSF systems documentation is here:

https://psf.projecthut.com/trac/psfsystems/wiki

It's far from complete, but all we have at the moment.
If you want a login, let me know.

>> Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
>>> complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
>>> answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
>>> confusion.
>>
>> If you can show that adding new wikis to this setup is easy and
>> doesn't require setting up new domains, I'll change my mind.
>>
> 
> If the real problem is in setting up new domains then we can discuss it in
> this thread or in different - as you wish. Don't you use DynDNS or
> alternative ?

No. The python.org domain DNS records are controlled by the sysadmins.

> As for showing you new setup and how to add new domains there, we need at
> least least old config available from somewhere. Do you have a link to
> repository?

See the above wiki for details. Config files are kept in a bzr
repo.

>> The way I read your proposal, it only works if you put the
>> wiki instances each under their own sub domain (with all the
>> admin and maintenance overhead that goes with it).
>>
> 
> It is hard for me to estimate the overhead you are speaking about. It will
> be more productive to start with actual config files and description of the
> current setup. If it is Apache that is hard to maintain, we can switch to
> Nginx. If the overall config is too complicated there is Puppet and plenty
> of other admin helpers. Just describe this overhead problem.

If you want to change the overall setup, please get in touch with the
infrastructure team which is currently evaluating and planning to
move the python.org systems to a whole new infrastructure.

>> If you're after better navigation, it may make more sense,
>> changing the prefix from /moin/ to /python/, so that the
>> URLs read:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/python/
>> http://wiki.python.org/jython/
>> http://wiki.python.org/psf/
>
> BTW, that is the current bus factor for wiki.python.org ?  If it is so hard
> to maintain, maybe you just need more people to help?

What is a "bus factor" ?

I'm not saying that the current setup is hard to maintain. I'm saying
that your proposal appears not to provide a good ratio between added
maintenance and added value.

You're only focusing on the Python wiki instance, but we have and will
have more than just one instance running on the server, so those will
need to be taken into account as well.

Perhaps there is a way to trick farmconfig into falling back to
the Python wiki in case none of the other instance URL REs match.
This may be possible according to the documentation in the standard
farmconfig.py file using a setup like this (moin appears to try the
REs top to bottom and takes the first match):

wikis = [
    ('jython', r'^.*/jython/.*$'),
    ('psf', r'^.*/psf/.*$'),
    ('pycon', r'^.*/pycon/.*$'),
    ('python', r'^.*$'),
]

Perhaps you could give this a try in a sandbox installation ?!

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jan 05 2012)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 00:06:44 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 02:06:44 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <20120105170023.GA15200@panix.com>
References: <CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de> <201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120105170023.GA15200@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xK=j-vJayJ1ZuH7-3GxM2SKUGi4Dkt8qoAz2xDZV8k5Ww@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 05, 2012, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> >
> > Is the current setup documented anywhere at all?
> > If you point to the document, we can remove the burden of providing
> > necessary instructions from you and stop talking about "overhead" in
> > abstract terms by providing real diff of the changes.
>
> What "we"?  AFAICT, you have not done any actual work to improve the
> website, only putting forth a constant series of suggested changes for
> other people to deal with.
>

"we" are the people who want this /moin/ suffix removal, so there is more
than just "me". I will do it alone, or somebody will help me - it doesn't
matter. There will be somebody motivated enough to do the necessary change.

As for everything else I feel like there is something personal towards me
(it is a little bit offtopic, so it would be nice of you to continue with
different subject if you want to continue). Is it denied to propose
something to pydotorg-www? Are ideas at all welcome here? I don't feel like
I am trustworthy enough to be given keys to all secret servers, and if I
beg you - I doubt you will give them to me. Admit it. And neither site, nor
the server config is open enough for me to propose any patches.

I want Python website development to be open and inclusive for community.
Increasing visibility and making maintenance process open _by default_ was
my goal right from the start. If you remember I was the one who said that
public list should a primary feedback mechanism unless there is a serious
security issue.


Right now I am facing resistance from people who don't want to do the
change, because they personally don't need it even though other members of
community would like to have it. I don't think it is the attitude that
keeps these people maintaining python.org as a volunteers. Other, more
realistic reason is the maintenance burden. And if we concentrate on this
problem, we may realize, that this cause need more serious approach than
you may thought. If people are so overwhelmed with maintenance burden of
even existing infrastructure then how can we talk about centralized
profiles, social features etc.? So practically no evolution is possible if
changes are not welcomed, because all admins are paralyzed even if they
don't mind against the change as a users. In this situation we need to
solve support problem first, and start with configuration management tool
and open repository like
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=operations/puppet.git;a=tree;f=files to
avoid problems like this
http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/msg2134

-- 
anatoly t.
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From mal at egenix.com  Fri Jan  6 11:06:41 2012
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 11:06:41 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <992691D8-DE23-4921-A19D-EF0E71717E0C@zopatista.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de>
	<201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>
	<992691D8-DE23-4921-A19D-EF0E71717E0C@zopatista.com>
Message-ID: <4F06C7B1.4020303@egenix.com>

Martijn Pieters wrote:
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 19:38 , M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> What is a "bus factor" ?
> 
> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor:
> 
> In software development, a software project's bus factor is a measurement of the concentration of information in individual team members. The bus factor is the total number of key developers who would need to be incapacitated (as by getting hit by a bus) to send the project into such disarray that it would not be able to proceed; the project would retain information (such as source code)  with which no remaining team member is familiar. A high bus factor means that many developers would need to be removed before the project would necessarily fail.

Thanks for the explanation.

Regarding the context we're discussing here: I'm not really sure
why a higher "bus factor" can be used to warrant unnecessary
complication. If that were so, Python would by now resemble APL ;-)

If Anatoly can come up with a working configuration that doesn't
require sub domain management, more virtual servers or moving to nginx
in order to support more than one wiki, I'd be +0 on the change.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jan 06 2012)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mj at zopatista.com  Fri Jan  6 10:47:10 2012
From: mj at zopatista.com (Martijn Pieters)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 10:47:10 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
	(Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de>
	<201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <992691D8-DE23-4921-A19D-EF0E71717E0C@zopatista.com>

On Jan 5, 2012, at 19:38 , M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> What is a "bus factor" ?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor:

In software development, a software project's bus factor is a measurement of the concentration of information in individual team members. The bus factor is the total number of key developers who would need to be incapacitated (as by getting hit by a bus) to send the project into such disarray that it would not be able to proceed; the project would retain information (such as source code)  with which no remaining team member is familiar. A high bus factor means that many developers would need to be removed before the project would necessarily fail.


From techtonik at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 11:06:52 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 13:06:52 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de> <201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xKm2dsPeG8YFsLR=zR+dJbC6JfsOwE61mNzXdST8hOTkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:

> >
> > Is the current setup documented anywhere at all?
> > If you point to the document, we can remove the burden of providing
> > necessary instructions from you and stop talking about "overhead" in
> > abstract terms by providing real diff of the changes.
>
> The PSF systems documentation is here:
>
> https://psf.projecthut.com/trac/psfsystems/wiki
>
> It's far from complete, but all we have at the moment.
> If you want a login, let me know.


I don't want a login, but it seems like I should have one to access this
info. I'd prefer to have WIKI_VIEW permission for anonymous that I'll
automatically inherit without dedicated login.

>> Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
> >>> complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
> >>> answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
> >>> confusion.
> >>
> >> If you can show that adding new wikis to this setup is easy and
> >> doesn't require setting up new domains, I'll change my mind.
> >>
> >
> > If the real problem is in setting up new domains then we can discuss it
> in
> > this thread or in different - as you wish. Don't you use DynDNS or
> > alternative ?
>
> No. The python.org domain DNS records are controlled by the sysadmins.
>

Is the configuration process really that complicated? What is the DNS
server software? Is it in Python?

> As for showing you new setup and how to add new domains there, we need at
> > least least old config available from somewhere. Do you have a link to
> > repository?
>
> See the above wiki for details. Config files are kept in a bzr
> repo.
>

This information was open. Why it has gone closed all of the sudden?
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Admin?highlight=%28CategoryPythonWebsite%29

What's the benefit of switching Trac 0.11.2.1? It doesn't support Bazaar as
a repository backend out of the box, so the source browser is likely
useless. For reference to MoinMoin wiki from security sensitive Trac
tickets, there is always an InterWiki.

>> The way I read your proposal, it only works if you put the
> >> wiki instances each under their own sub domain (with all the
> >> admin and maintenance overhead that goes with it).
> >>
> >
> > It is hard for me to estimate the overhead you are speaking about. It
> will
> > be more productive to start with actual config files and description of
> the
> > current setup. If it is Apache that is hard to maintain, we can switch to
> > Nginx. If the overall config is too complicated there is Puppet and
> plenty
> > of other admin helpers. Just describe this overhead problem.
>
> If you want to change the overall setup, please get in touch with the
> infrastructure team which is currently evaluating and planning to
> move the python.org systems to a whole new infrastructure.


It's cool and very interesting. Why not to make the process open and cover
the progress on Planet Python, and in PSF blog?
Will this infrastructure include OpenStack? How much Python will be
involved? What are monitoring tools?
I want to participate in public discussions too.


> >> If you're after better navigation, it may make more sense,
> >> changing the prefix from /moin/ to /python/, so that the
> >> URLs read:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.python.org/python/
> >> http://wiki.python.org/jython/
> >> http://wiki.python.org/psf/
> >
> > BTW, that is the current bus factor for wiki.python.org ?  If it is so
> hard
> > to maintain, maybe you just need more people to help?
>
> What is a "bus factor" ?
>

The number of people on a project that should be hit by a bus to ruin it.
Bus factor 1 means that there is a single person (with valuable know-how)
without which the business will be unable to operate.

The point is - the resistance to make the configuration change is caused by
potential inability of current maintainer to support new setup. Thus
reducing "bus factor" to 0. So, the question about "current bus factor" is
really the question about how many people besides you are maintaining the
setup currently, and whom to can you delegate MoinMoin maintenance tasks
without dropping bus factor below some reasonable value (to say 2) by
opting yourself out?


> I'm not saying that the current setup is hard to maintain. I'm saying
> that your proposal appears not to provide a good ratio between added
> maintenance and added value.
>

Can you estimate the "added value" and "added maintenance"
in quantitative terms?

I already understand that added value is 0 for you personally, but what is
your estimation of a community service value? There is already at least +1
from active wiki community who is subscribed to this list, and I suspect
the actual percentage is higher than 20% (and maybe even higher than 50%,
but to prove that we should run a poll with MoinMoin accounts for a month).

So, if the chance of doing the change is "added value/added maintenance",
we may either try to increase the subjective cost of "added value" (which I
am trying to do right now) or reduce "added maintenance" (which I will
likely do once I get access to current config files).

Or it might be possible to find somebody with higher default ratio, but we
need to be sure that we won't reduce "bus factor" by ignoring maintainers,
who don't care instead of persuading them. So this stuff can only be used
as a last resort, but I think it is unnecessary. What's the point of being
maintainer for a stuff that suxx if you're not paid for that?

I've just come up with the idea that it might be the reason for motivation
to keep the maintenance process closed. People don't want to hurt their
reputation, because their discussions are not professional from the point
of view of a seasoned admins. But that's just wrong - if you're a volunteer
it is only natural to ask dumb questions, raise the problems, try to solve
them and everybody should understand that. In the end - person who is
trying to learn something new and improve the things will likely provide
more "added value" for community than a conservative volunteer, who does a
honorary and hard job (thus excluding other people from the process).
Technologies move and without public discussions the interest from
community will degenerate, as well as maintainer's motivation to move to
these new technologies (even if newtech brings improvements to simplify the
process).


> You're only focusing on the Python wiki instance, but we have and will
> have more than just one instance running on the server, so those will
> need to be taken into account as well.
>

I focus on Python and Jython wiki, because they are public. It would be
nice if you could have a public page with description of other wikies. If I
remember correctly there was some closed PSF wiki, but it must be replaced
by Trac you've mentioned.

And what should I take into account is not clear until I take a look at
actual configs.


> Perhaps there is a way to trick farmconfig into falling back to
> the Python wiki in case none of the other instance URL REs match.
> This may be possible according to the documentation in the standard
> farmconfig.py file using a setup like this (moin appears to try the
> REs top to bottom and takes the first match):
>
> wikis = [
>    ('jython', r'^.*/jython/.*$'),
>    ('psf', r'^.*/psf/.*$'),
>    ('pycon', r'^.*/pycon/.*$'),
>    ('python', r'^.*$'),
> ]
>
> Perhaps you could give this a try in a sandbox installation ?!


This really looks like a way to go, but without actual config files it will
be hard to get this sandbox right as I am not a MoinMoin expert either. In
fact - I trust Radomir's experience more than my own and would ask his
opinion in this respect.

P.S. We already have http://wiki.python.org/moin/TrackerDevelopment page -
is there anything similar for Wiki?

-- 
anatoly t.
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Jan  8 21:13:44 2012
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 20:13:44 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: PSF Membership Roster
Message-ID: <34D51A51-5369-4BCA-AC7A-788F0AB4D31A@holdenweb.com>

Pat:

Would someone please have a few minutes to put "(resigned mm/dd/yyyy)" after Greg Stein's name on the current board roster, with the effective date, please?

http://www.python.org/psf/members/ 

Thanks

S
-- 
Steve Holden steve at holdenweb.com,  Holden Web, LLC http://holdenweb.com/
Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/




From patcam at python.org  Mon Jan  9 01:27:33 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 19:27:33 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: PSF Membership Roster
In-Reply-To: <34D51A51-5369-4BCA-AC7A-788F0AB4D31A@holdenweb.com>
References: <34D51A51-5369-4BCA-AC7A-788F0AB4D31A@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAFy_4dLkiOEVMCDry0d_MBFQ1EwD6UyE-HisuetDUJ3qOzaXkg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pydotorg:

Could you please update the "membership roster" web page
http://www.python.org/psf/members/ by removing Greg Stein's
name as a current board member. Greg resigned on 9/19/11.

In addition, please add on the "history.." web page
http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/history/ Greg Stein's
resignation date in parenthesis next to his name and James
Tauber's resignation date of July 18, 2011.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks,
Pat



On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Pat:
>
> Would someone please have a few minutes to put "(resigned mm/dd/yyyy)"
> after Greg Stein's name on the current board roster, with the effective
> date, please?
>
> http://www.python.org/psf/members/
>
> Thanks
>
> S
> --
> Steve Holden steve at holdenweb.com,  Holden Web, LLC http://holdenweb.com/
> Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>



-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jan  9 01:44:39 2012
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:44:39 -0800
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: PSF Membership Roster
In-Reply-To: <CAFy_4dLkiOEVMCDry0d_MBFQ1EwD6UyE-HisuetDUJ3qOzaXkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34D51A51-5369-4BCA-AC7A-788F0AB4D31A@holdenweb.com>
	<CAFy_4dLkiOEVMCDry0d_MBFQ1EwD6UyE-HisuetDUJ3qOzaXkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120109004439.GA15757@panix.com>

On Sun, Jan 08, 2012, Pat Campbell wrote:
> 
> Could you please update the "membership roster" web page
> http://www.python.org/psf/members/ by removing Greg Stein's
> name as a current board member. Greg resigned on 9/19/11.
> 
> In addition, please add on the "history.." web page
> http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/history/ Greg Stein's
> resignation date in parenthesis next to his name and James
> Tauber's resignation date of July 18, 2011.

Done!  Please let us know if you want any changes.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich

From patcam at python.org  Mon Jan  9 03:52:08 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 21:52:08 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: PSF Membership Roster
In-Reply-To: <20120109004439.GA15757@panix.com>
References: <34D51A51-5369-4BCA-AC7A-788F0AB4D31A@holdenweb.com>
	<CAFy_4dLkiOEVMCDry0d_MBFQ1EwD6UyE-HisuetDUJ3qOzaXkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120109004439.GA15757@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAFy_4dKc8f0jMGNFgQhc2RsvNc90MjOLp0p3ta4jET=KwF4wMA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Aahz.

Pat

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 08, 2012, Pat Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Could you please update the "membership roster" web page
> > http://www.python.org/psf/members/ by removing Greg Stein's
> > name as a current board member. Greg resigned on 9/19/11.
> >
> > In addition, please add on the "history.." web page
> > http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/history/ Greg Stein's
> > resignation date in parenthesis next to his name and James
> > Tauber's resignation date of July 18, 2011.
>
> Done!  Please let us know if you want any changes.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping
> over."
> --Remco Gerlich
>



-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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From barry at python.org  Tue Jan 10 09:46:00 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:46:00 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Python-Dev] svn.python.org certificate expired
Message-ID: <20120110094600.739f1224@rivendell>

We should renew this even though svn is in read-only.
-Barry

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 23:01:54 +0100
From: Charles-Fran?ois Natali <neologix at free.fr>
To: python-dev <python-dev at python.org>
Subject: [Python-Dev] svn.python.org certificate expired


Hi,

All the buildbots are turning red because of test_ssl:
"""
======================================================================
ERROR: test_connect (test.test_ssl.NetworkedTests)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/buildslave/3.x.murray-gentoo-wide/build/Lib/test/test_ssl.py",
line 616, in test_connect
    s.connect(("svn.python.org", 443))
  File "/var/lib/buildslave/3.x.murray-gentoo-wide/build/Lib/ssl.py",
line 519, in connect
    self._real_connect(addr, False)
  File "/var/lib/buildslave/3.x.murray-gentoo-wide/build/Lib/ssl.py",
line 509, in _real_connect
    self.do_handshake()
  File "/var/lib/buildslave/3.x.murray-gentoo-wide/build/Lib/ssl.py",
line 489, in do_handshake
    self._sslobj.do_handshake()
ssl.SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:420: error:14090086:SSL
routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
"""

It seems that svn.python.org certificate expired today (09/01/2012).

Cheers,

cf
_______________________________________________
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/barry%40python.org
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jan 10 23:28:47 2012
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:28:47 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Python-Dev] svn.python.org certificate
	expired
In-Reply-To: <20120110094600.739f1224@rivendell>
References: <20120110094600.739f1224@rivendell>
Message-ID: <4F0CBB9F.6000203@v.loewis.de>

Am 10.01.2012 09:46, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> We should renew this even though svn is in read-only.

Done. Patrick had generated a new one over Christmas, which I had
forgotten to install.

Regards,
Martin

From michael at python.org  Wed Jan 11 02:19:09 2012
From: michael at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 01:19:09 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
Message-ID: <3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>

Hello Bill,

The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.

That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code the licensing position is unclear.

I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license requirement for future code posted to the wiki.

All the best,

Michael Foord


On 10 Jan 2012, at 21:21, Bill LeClair wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Currently we are having an internal discussion  here about whether we are able to use the code located on you Wiki in our software.  Could you please indicate under which Open Source License the code located on the  Wiki is under please?
> 
> Thanks your response is greatly appreciated,
> 
> Bill
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Le Clair - Chief Architect
> ___________________________________________________
>  
> DemandTec, Inc.
> One Franklin Parkway, Building 910 | San Mateo, CA 94403
> tel 650.645.7142  fax 650.645.7388  cell 650.619.7315
> demandtec.com
>  
>  
> 
> <db12-email-sig26e9.png>DemandBetter 2012
> 
> 
> 
> ******************************************************************
> 
> DemandTec Email Notice
> This email and any attachments may contain confidential and/or proprietary 
> information and is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not
> the intended recipient we request that you notify us via email or telephone and
> delete all copies of the message from your systems. Additionally, although
> DemandTec has taken reasonable precautions to ensure the security of this
> email and any attachments, we encourage you to take similar precautions and
> accept no liability for any loss or damage resulting from its use.
> 
> 
> DemandTec, 1 Franklin Parkway, Building 910, San Mateo, CA 94403-1906, 650-645-7100
> 
> 
> 


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From barry at python.org  Wed Jan 11 09:23:28 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:23:28 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Python-Dev] svn.python.org certificate
 expired
In-Reply-To: <4F0CBB9F.6000203@v.loewis.de>
References: <20120110094600.739f1224@rivendell> <4F0CBB9F.6000203@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20120111092328.5fb5d5db@rivendell>

On Jan 10, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>Am 10.01.2012 09:46, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
>> We should renew this even though svn is in read-only.
>
>Done. Patrick had generated a new one over Christmas, which I had
>forgotten to install.

Thanks guys!
-Barry
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From William.LeClair at demandtec.com  Wed Jan 11 02:27:45 2012
From: William.LeClair at demandtec.com (Bill LeClair)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:27:45 -0800
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
Message-ID: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9C8D@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>

Thanks for your help Michael,
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Foord [mailto:michael at python.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:19 PM
To: Bill LeClair
Cc: webmaster at python.org; pydotorg-www
Subject: Re: Questions about the code located on your Wiki

Hello Bill,

The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.

That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code the licensing position is unclear.

I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license requirement for future code posted to the wiki.

All the best,

Michael Foord


On 10 Jan 2012, at 21:21, Bill LeClair wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Currently we are having an internal discussion  here about whether we are able to use the code located on you Wiki in our software.  Could you please indicate under which Open Source License the code located on the  Wiki is under please?
>
> Thanks your response is greatly appreciated,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Bill Le Clair - Chief Architect
> ___________________________________________________
>
> DemandTec, Inc.
> One Franklin Parkway, Building 910 | San Mateo, CA 94403 tel
> 650.645.7142  fax 650.645.7388  cell 650.619.7315 demandtec.com
>
>
>
> <db12-email-sig26e9.png>DemandBetter 2012
>
>
>
> ******************************************************************
>
> DemandTec Email Notice
> This email and any attachments may contain confidential and/or
> proprietary information and is intended solely for the use of the
> addressee. If you are not the intended recipient we request that you
> notify us via email or telephone and delete all copies of the message
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> reasonable precautions to ensure the security of this email and any
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>
>
> DemandTec, 1 Franklin Parkway, Building 910, San Mateo, CA 94403-1906,
> 650-645-7100
>
>
>


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html







Get Connected.
Save the Date for DemandBetter 2012
June 11-13 | San Francisco
www.demandtec.com/db12

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jan 11 16:45:47 2012
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 07:45:47 -0800
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
Message-ID: <20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com>

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012, Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code
> may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple
> authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any
> automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.
>
> That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is
> probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would
> probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code
> the licensing position is unclear.
>
> I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm
> sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license
> requirement for future code posted to the wiki.

Actually, I think that it's reasonable, given the context, for us to just
slap a note that all wiki content is copyrighted by the PSF -- after all,
that's what we do for the rest of the website content, and the wiki is
really just part of the website.  We probably should add that the
contents are licensed under Creative Commons and that probably needs a
board decision about exactly which license we're using.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich

From mfoord at python.org  Wed Jan 11 16:47:52 2012
From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:47:52 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>

On 11/01/2012 15:45, Aahz wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012, Michael Foord wrote:
>> The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code
>> may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple
>> authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any
>> automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.
>>
>> That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is
>> probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would
>> probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code
>> the licensing position is unclear.
>>
>> I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm
>> sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license
>> requirement for future code posted to the wiki.
> Actually, I think that it's reasonable, given the context, for us to just
> slap a note that all wiki content is copyrighted by the PSF -- after all,
> that's what we do for the rest of the website content, and the wiki is
> really just part of the website.  We probably should add that the
> contents are licensed under Creative Commons and that probably needs a
> board decision about exactly which license we're using.
I would definitely be in favour of automatic licensing of all content 
posted to the wiki, but I agree that it's not something the web team can 
do unilateraly.

All the best,

Michael Foord

-- 
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/

May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html


From techtonik at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 17:34:36 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:34:36 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com> <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xKdBG21WJCtCq9yYuZbD1UFe9WXeL4yYJHz1u3CTqfQ9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Michael Foord <mfoord at python.org> wrote:

> On 11/01/2012 15:45, Aahz wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012, Michael Foord wrote:
>>
>>> The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code
>>> may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple
>>> authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any
>>> automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.
>>>
>>> That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is
>>> probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would
>>> probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code
>>> the licensing position is unclear.
>>>
>>> I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm
>>> sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license
>>> requirement for future code posted to the wiki.
>>>
>> Actually, I think that it's reasonable, given the context, for us to just
>> slap a note that all wiki content is copyrighted by the PSF -- after all,
>> that's what we do for the rest of the website content, and the wiki is
>> really just part of the website.  We probably should add that the
>> contents are licensed under Creative Commons and that probably needs a
>> board decision about exactly which license we're using.
>>
> I would definitely be in favour of automatic licensing of all content
> posted to the wiki, but I agree that it's not something the web team can do
> unilateraly.


I'd unlicense all the content. If you need to share a licensed material -
place it on your site and provide a link from the wiki.
-- 
anatoly t.
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From sheep at sheep.art.pl  Wed Jan 11 18:34:36 2012
From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:34:36 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xKdBG21WJCtCq9yYuZbD1UFe9WXeL4yYJHz1u3CTqfQ9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com> <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
	<CAPkN8xKdBG21WJCtCq9yYuZbD1UFe9WXeL4yYJHz1u3CTqfQ9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2VPS0gx7LZuiMyQ7gRGQNfoKMSGe=FXw=HBYxFmtzVWy_Z_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 17:34, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Michael Foord <mfoord at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/01/2012 15:45, Aahz wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012, Michael Foord wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code
>>>> may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple
>>>> authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any
>>>> automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is
>>>> probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would
>>>> probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code
>>>> the licensing position is unclear.
>>>>
>>>> I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm
>>>> sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license
>>>> requirement for future code posted to the wiki.
>>>
>>> Actually, I think that it's reasonable, given the context, for us to just
>>> slap a note that all wiki content is copyrighted by the PSF -- after all,
>>> that's what we do for the rest of the website content, and the wiki is
>>> really just part of the website. ?We probably should add that the
>>> contents are licensed under Creative Commons and that probably needs a
>>> board decision about exactly which license we're using.
>>
>> I would definitely be in favour of automatic licensing of all content
>> posted to the wiki, but I agree that it's not something the web team can do
>> unilateraly.
>
>
> I'd unlicense all the content. If you need to share a licensed material -
> place it on your site and provide a link from the wiki.

Why would you want to remove licenses from it? Don't you want it to be
possible for people to use it?
When there is no permission to use it given in the license, the
default is "you can't use it".

-- 
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jan 11 19:42:13 2012
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:42:13 -0600
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com> <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
Message-ID: <20237.55301.249015.150814@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michael> I would definitely be in favour of automatic licensing of all
    Michael> content posted to the wiki, but I agree that it's not something
    Michael> the web team can do unilateraly.

+1

Skip

From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jan 12 11:22:50 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:22:50 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2VPS0gx7LZuiMyQ7gRGQNfoKMSGe=FXw=HBYxFmtzVWy_Z_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com> <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
	<CAPkN8xKdBG21WJCtCq9yYuZbD1UFe9WXeL4yYJHz1u3CTqfQ9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS0gx7LZuiMyQ7gRGQNfoKMSGe=FXw=HBYxFmtzVWy_Z_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+s9VsV6wi5SYmma3AzEwHv_9SAitFARUHZ6vPESHVZ9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Radomir Dopieralski <sheep at sheep.art.pl>wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 17:34, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Michael Foord <mfoord at python.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/01/2012 15:45, Aahz wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012, Michael Foord wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The wiki is freely editable by anyone, and as such any piece of code
> >>>> may have originally been entered by anyone - or even have multiple
> >>>> authors. I've looked around, but as far as I know we don't have any
> >>>> automatic licensing for code posted to the wiki.
> >>>>
> >>>> That means (unfortunately) that the code posted to the wiki is
> >>>> probably copyright whomever put it there. Small bits of code would
> >>>> probably not be copyrightable at all, but for larger sections of code
> >>>> the licensing position is unclear.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but I'm
> >>>> sending this to the web team so we can consider an automatic license
> >>>> requirement for future code posted to the wiki.
> >>>
> >>> Actually, I think that it's reasonable, given the context, for us to
> just
> >>> slap a note that all wiki content is copyrighted by the PSF -- after
> all,
> >>> that's what we do for the rest of the website content, and the wiki is
> >>> really just part of the website.  We probably should add that the
> >>> contents are licensed under Creative Commons and that probably needs a
> >>> board decision about exactly which license we're using.
> >>
> >> I would definitely be in favour of automatic licensing of all content
> >> posted to the wiki, but I agree that it's not something the web team
> can do
> >> unilateraly.
> >
> >
> > I'd unlicense all the content. If you need to share a licensed material -
> > place it on your site and provide a link from the wiki.
>
> Why would you want to remove licenses from it? Don't you want it to be
> possible for people to use it?
>

Quite the opposite - I want information sharing on the Python Wiki be free
of the bullshit of implied rights.


> When there is no permission to use it given in the license, the
> default is "you can't use it".


Right. The copyright law in most countries require permission _by default_
for public stuff, that why the stuff needs to be explicitly unlicensed -
http://unlicense.org/
-- 
anatoly t.
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From sheep at sheep.art.pl  Thu Jan 12 13:22:08 2012
From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:22:08 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8x+s9VsV6wi5SYmma3AzEwHv_9SAitFARUHZ6vPESHVZ9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com> <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
	<CAPkN8xKdBG21WJCtCq9yYuZbD1UFe9WXeL4yYJHz1u3CTqfQ9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS0gx7LZuiMyQ7gRGQNfoKMSGe=FXw=HBYxFmtzVWy_Z_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8x+s9VsV6wi5SYmma3AzEwHv_9SAitFARUHZ6vPESHVZ9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2VPS0HLS9Y-nTvwyiH28ngW5QSSt-YKbALbVo9h6AY=CJGRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:22, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:

>> > I'd unlicense all the content. If you need to share a licensed material
>> > -
>> > place it on your site and provide a link from the wiki.
>>
>> Why would you want to remove licenses from it? Don't you want it to be
>> possible for people to use it?
>
>
> Quite the opposite - I want information sharing on the Python Wiki be free
> of the?bullshit?of?implied rights.
>
>>
>> When there is no permission to use it given in the license, the
>> default is "you can't use it".
>
>
> Right. The copyright law in most countries require permission _by default_
> for public stuff, that why the stuff needs to be explicitly unlicensed
> -?http://unlicense.org/

Despite a cute name, that is, in fact, a license, and not a very good one.
Please see http://creativecommons.org/about/cc0 for explanation of the
problems with putting things in public domain.


-- 
Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl

From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jan 12 13:44:39 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 15:44:39 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Questions about the code located on your Wiki
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2VPS0HLS9Y-nTvwyiH28ngW5QSSt-YKbALbVo9h6AY=CJGRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D445BEB576206A439E5F09606A6586C617343A9AF4@dthqexch01.demandtec.com>
	<3BAE9373-A4C9-411F-AD6C-25845549E79D@python.org>
	<20120111154547.GA8873@panix.com> <4F0DAF28.7050306@python.org>
	<CAPkN8xKdBG21WJCtCq9yYuZbD1UFe9WXeL4yYJHz1u3CTqfQ9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS0gx7LZuiMyQ7gRGQNfoKMSGe=FXw=HBYxFmtzVWy_Z_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8x+s9VsV6wi5SYmma3AzEwHv_9SAitFARUHZ6vPESHVZ9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS0HLS9Y-nTvwyiH28ngW5QSSt-YKbALbVo9h6AY=CJGRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJ6BEL05cLF2TY3XT6eQnQji0jQM=YBbRHh-+nhC0t+qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Radomir Dopieralski <sheep at sheep.art.pl>wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:22, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> > I'd unlicense all the content. If you need to share a licensed
> material
> >> > -
> >> > place it on your site and provide a link from the wiki.
> >>
> >> Why would you want to remove licenses from it? Don't you want it to be
> >> possible for people to use it?
> >
> >
> > Quite the opposite - I want information sharing on the Python Wiki be
> free
> > of the bullshit of implied rights.
> >
> >>
> >> When there is no permission to use it given in the license, the
> >> default is "you can't use it".
> >
> >
> > Right. The copyright law in most countries require permission _by
> default_
> > for public stuff, that why the stuff needs to be explicitly unlicensed
> > - http://unlicense.org/
>
> Despite a cute name, that is, in fact, a license, and not a very good one.
> Please see http://creativecommons.org/about/cc0 for explanation of the
> problems with putting things in public domain.


IMO the problems with the copyright law referred by this link are already
summarized in my quote few lines above, and CC0 is another choice to solve
these. Perhaps it would be more clear if we keep discussion focused on
particular problems with content in Python wiki and in particular the
question - Why CC0 dedication to public domain or unlicensing is not a very
good choice? and If there is a better one?
-- 
anatoly t.
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From doug.hellmann at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 15:46:18 2012
From: doug.hellmann at gmail.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:46:18 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] python.org down?
Message-ID: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>

I'm seeing reports via the PSF twitter account that python.org is down. Is anyone available to take a look at the problem?

Doug


From doug.hellmann at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 16:26:24 2012
From: doug.hellmann at gmail.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:26:24 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
Message-ID: <744692E3-4897-4065-A4CF-0F5DFFC192DB@gmail.com>

Thanks!

On Jan 15, 2012, at 10:16 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 01/15/2012 03:46 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> I'm seeing reports via the PSF twitter account that python.org is down. Is 
>> anyone available to take a look at the problem?
> 
> I've rebooted the machine, it was stuck again.  So far I couldn't see anything
> interesting in the log files.
> 
> Georg
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAk8S7dAACgkQN9GcIYhpnLD+6QCdEwfnhgbcJvMBPonvdnBD4Lx2
> wTAAn3ycLTh7dDJxRG9L2xoLEmsumqQw
> =OEXw
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From georg at python.org  Sun Jan 15 16:16:32 2012
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:16:32 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/15/2012 03:46 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> I'm seeing reports via the PSF twitter account that python.org is down. Is 
> anyone available to take a look at the problem?

I've rebooted the machine, it was stuck again.  So far I couldn't see anything
interesting in the log files.

Georg
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAk8S7dAACgkQN9GcIYhpnLD+6QCdEwfnhgbcJvMBPonvdnBD4Lx2
wTAAn3ycLTh7dDJxRG9L2xoLEmsumqQw
=OEXw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 21:32:09 2012
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:32:09 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
Message-ID: <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>

On 15/01/2012 15:16, Georg Brandl wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 01/15/2012 03:46 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> I'm seeing reports via the PSF twitter account that python.org is down. Is
>> anyone available to take a look at the problem?
>
> I've rebooted the machine, it was stuck again.  So far I couldn't see anything
> interesting in the log files.

What's being done to diagnose this further?

2 outages in the space of 3 or 4 days doesn't look to good.
How does this correlate with pypi being moved to dinsdale?

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

From georg at python.org  Sun Jan 15 21:55:42 2012
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:55:42 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org> <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4F133D4E.3020701@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/15/2012 09:32 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> On 15/01/2012 15:16, Georg Brandl wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> On 01/15/2012 03:46 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>> I'm seeing reports via the PSF twitter account that python.org is down.
>>> Is anyone available to take a look at the problem?
>> 
>> I've rebooted the machine, it was stuck again.  So far I couldn't see
>> anything interesting in the log files.
> 
> What's being done to diagnose this further?

Nothing from my side.

> 2 outages in the space of 3 or 4 days doesn't look to good.

Agreed.

Georg
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jan 15 22:56:38 2012
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:56:38 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure]   python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
	<4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4F134B96.3090504@v.loewis.de>

> What's being done to diagnose this further?

The current diagnosis is that the disk driver reports SCSI errors on the
RAID controller. They don't get logged to disk, as the disk has
failed...

Things go downhill from their, apparently causing a kernel hang
ultimately.

The RAID controller itself reports that it is in "optimal" condition
(i.e. no hardware failures).

I'm hesitant to perform a firmware update to the controller without
physical access in case the update fails.

> 2 outages in the space of 3 or 4 days doesn't look to good.

The current plan is to change the hosting "soon". If that fails
or stalls again, I would try to get the controller replaced
(again; this would be the third controller); it's uncertain whether
doing so would help. How exactly the replacement could be performed
is also unclear.

> How does this correlate with pypi being moved to dinsdale?

Perhaps not at all. The controller had a series of failures last summer
also, but then "fixed" itself somehow. It could be overheating of some
component (not necessarily the RAID controller), which could explain
why it occurs randomly, and in increased frequency after putting more
load on the machine.

Regards,
Martin

From georg at python.org  Sun Jan 15 22:59:48 2012
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:59:48 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure]   python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <1326663896.3396.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org> <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
	<1326663896.3396.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4F134C54.6040205@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/15/2012 10:44 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
>>> I've rebooted the machine, it was stuck again.  So far I couldn't see
>>> anything interesting in the log files.
>> 
>> What's being done to diagnose this further?
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/2012-January/001572.html

But please note that there wasn't anything like that in the logfiles this
time around.

Georg
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From techtonik at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 23:08:26 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 01:08:26 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F134B96.3090504@v.loewis.de>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org> <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4F134B96.3090504@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xKTh768JO4NBoKv++FhA1Lz-Hw0DwcekCQ=kY6cyt=2=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:56 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>wrote:

> > What's being done to diagnose this further?
>
> The current diagnosis is that the disk driver reports SCSI errors on the
> RAID controller. They don't get logged to disk, as the disk has
> failed...
>
> Things go downhill from their, apparently causing a kernel hang
> ultimately.
>
> The RAID controller itself reports that it is in "optimal" condition
> (i.e. no hardware failures).
>
> I'm hesitant to perform a firmware update to the controller without
> physical access in case the update fails.
>
> > 2 outages in the space of 3 or 4 days doesn't look to good.
>

I have full stats for http://www.python.org/ with latency since July 2011
with 1 minute discretion.  I can export them into .cvs or somebody can help
me with JS part to draw them at http://pydotorg.appspot.com

> How does this correlate with pypi being moved to dinsdale?
>
> Perhaps not at all. The controller had a series of failures last summer
> also, but then "fixed" itself somehow. It could be overheating of some
> component (not necessarily the RAID controller), which could explain
> why it occurs randomly, and in increased frequency after putting more
> load on the machine.


It is because of this guy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4
-- 
anatoly t.
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jan 15 23:11:22 2012
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 23:11:22 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure]   python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F134C54.6040205@python.org>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
	<4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>	<1326663896.3396.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4F134C54.6040205@python.org>
Message-ID: <4F134F0A.4070001@v.loewis.de>

>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/2012-January/001572.html
> 
> But please note that there wasn't anything like that in the logfiles this
> time around.

That's because the disk failed (or was considered failed by the disk
driver); hence logging to the disk failed also, and it logged only to
the serial terminal.

There is a screen session at the address Thomas gives above, which you
could attach to and check. Me, I don't master screen, so I don't know
how to do that.

Regards,
Martin

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Jan 15 22:44:56 2012
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:44:56 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure]   python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>
	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>  <4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1326663896.3396.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>


> > I've rebooted the machine, it was stuck again.  So far I couldn't see anything
> > interesting in the log files.
> 
> What's being done to diagnose this further?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/2012-January/001572.html

> 2 outages in the space of 3 or 4 days doesn't look to good.

We already had repeated outages 6 months ago, it had calmed down
afterwards.

> How does this correlate with pypi being moved to dinsdale?

Don't know. Perhaps higher system load increases the likelihood of
outages.

Regards

Antoine.



From georg at python.org  Mon Jan 16 07:46:09 2012
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 07:46:09 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure]   python.org down?
In-Reply-To: <4F134F0A.4070001@v.loewis.de>
References: <61A7DC4E-0D0F-4CA3-8910-32B346F57A51@gmail.com>	<4F12EDD0.1000002@python.org>
	<4F1337C9.3090106@simplistix.co.uk>	<1326663896.3396.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4F134C54.6040205@python.org> <4F134F0A.4070001@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4F13C7B1.5030206@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/15/2012 11:11 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/2012-January/001572.html
>> 
>> But please note that there wasn't anything like that in the logfiles
>> this time around.
> 
> That's because the disk failed (or was considered failed by the disk 
> driver); hence logging to the disk failed also, and it logged only to the
> serial terminal.
> 
> There is a screen session at the address Thomas gives above, which you 
> could attach to and check. Me, I don't master screen, so I don't know how
> to do that.

I think I did that (since the serial console can only be accessed once,
I noticed the screen session while trying to find out why it wouldn't
let me connect).

But there were no messages at all about disk failures; just a bunch of
warnings about possible TCP SYN attacks on port 80, which is common
enough.

Georg
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From barry at python.org  Mon Jan 16 15:10:35 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:10:35 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
Message-ID: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>

I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well for
solidarity (and self-interest).

I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
technically feasible given our volunteer resources?

-Barry

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:21:45 -0800
From: Jeff Marshall <marshman at gmail.com>
To: Hank Leininger <hlein at marc.info>
Cc: "archiver-policy at python.org" <archiver-policy at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?


Hi Hank, great to hear from you. 

We've been discussing it this weekend and we are leaning strongly towards doing a full blackout for the day on the 18th.  We plan on deciding tonight. 

We haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our IANAL interpretation is pretty dire like yours. 

It would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together resulting in more awareness across the spectrum. 

Jeff


On Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Hank Leininger <hlein at marc.info> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> MARC admin here.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing list
> archives hosted in the United States?
> 
> IANAL, and I can't keep up with the various modifications to SOPA and
> Protect-IP that keep coming, but my impression is that it would be a
> death sentence: we would be obligated to review all messages for
> copyrighted content prior to posting, make us liable for any
> violations, and of course, get our sites taken down/blocked based on
> unsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty until proven
> innocent).
> 
> I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or move it out of the US (and no
> longer touch it myself, any more).  So, I am thinking of participating
> in the SOPA Blackout Day on Wednesday.
> 
> I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any legal opinions
> on the matter, considered participating in the blackout, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Hank
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Archiver-policy mailing list
> Archiver-policy at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy
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_______________________________________________
Archiver-policy mailing list
Archiver-policy at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy
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From p at python.org  Mon Jan 16 15:26:50 2012
From: p at python.org (Patrick Ben Koetter)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:26:50 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20120116142649.GB12354@state-of-mind.de>

* Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>:
> I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
> sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
> problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
> Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
> seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
> recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well for
> solidarity (and self-interest).
> 
> I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
> to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
> technically feasible given our volunteer resources?

postmaster hat on:
        Yes, we can blackout mail for that time

SOPA:
Personally I don't think we need to start a discussion on it. We can just vote
and do what the vote returns.

p at rick




> 
> -Barry
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:21:45 -0800
> From: Jeff Marshall <marshman at gmail.com>
> To: Hank Leininger <hlein at marc.info>
> Cc: "archiver-policy at python.org" <archiver-policy at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
> 
> 
> Hi Hank, great to hear from you. 
> 
> We've been discussing it this weekend and we are leaning strongly towards doing a full blackout for the day on the 18th.  We plan on deciding tonight. 
> 
> We haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our IANAL interpretation is pretty dire like yours. 
> 
> It would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together resulting in more awareness across the spectrum. 
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Hank Leininger <hlein at marc.info> wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA256
> > 
> > Hi folks,
> > 
> > MARC admin here.
> > 
> > What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing list
> > archives hosted in the United States?
> > 
> > IANAL, and I can't keep up with the various modifications to SOPA and
> > Protect-IP that keep coming, but my impression is that it would be a
> > death sentence: we would be obligated to review all messages for
> > copyrighted content prior to posting, make us liable for any
> > violations, and of course, get our sites taken down/blocked based on
> > unsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty until proven
> > innocent).
> > 
> > I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or move it out of the US (and no
> > longer touch it myself, any more).  So, I am thinking of participating
> > in the SOPA Blackout Day on Wednesday.
> > 
> > I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any legal opinions
> > on the matter, considered participating in the blackout, etc.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Hank
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
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> > =6Mtz
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archiver-policy mailing list
> > Archiver-policy at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy

> <html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Hi Hank, great to hear from you.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>We've been discussing it this weekend and we are leaning strongly towards doing a full blackout for the day on the 18th. &nbsp;We plan on deciding tonight.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>We haven't gotten any legal opinions on the proposed legislation, but our IANAL interpretation is pretty dire like yours.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>It would be great if several of us participated in the blackout together resulting in more awareness across the spectrum.&nbsp;<br><br>Jeff<br><br></div><div><br>On Jan 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Hank Leininger &lt;<a href="mailto:hlein at marc.info">hlein at marc.info</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>Hash: SHA256<br><br>Hi folks,<br><br>MARC admin here.<br><br>What are your thoughts on the impact of SOPA on public mailing list<br>archives hosted in the United States?<br><br>IANAL, and I can't keep up with the various modifications to SOPA and<br>Protect-IP that keep coming, but my impression is that it would be a<br>death sentence: we would be obligated to review all messages for<br>copyrighted content prior to posting, make us liable for any<br>violations, and of course, get our sites taken down/blocked based on<br>unsupported claims (i.e. no due process; guilty until proven<br>innocent).<br><br>I'd expect to have to shut MARC down, or move it out of the US (and no<br>longer touch it myself, any more). &nbsp;So, I am thinking of participating<br>in the SOPA Blackout Day on Wednesday.<br><br>I'm curious what the Jeffs think, if you've gotten any legal opinions<br>on the matter, considered participating in the blackout, etc.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Hank<br>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br><br>iQEVAwUBTxN0wEeo0UvhPpxqAQiy7gf/bKap95vBkW9HcMQCC/xFEYHWJaWszXC5<br>lIOfPW0lC1fbxa6BkRvMEYloiseYS3yCzgPxUqCkDQvn6R5mHOGAHRvIQWBMlj/d<br>bbCjidpnboRtQ+c0xGD5iib7hXvsMyL2dRQem7c6/WbHq2uvbTngsuA+Wzhwq7nW<br>LJxUB8Ucgp05x/UCsSPgUj+DmGrA4bmisVuBB9xypB6b1NQZ/BsKm6nMumzRiPTe<br>NCXSZGxsSpng+WIyvSSgXfckxZxSfEOF9G3BL9Q4hthTUEMwhAPsH/UKRcOcvCh6<br>wWSKGBLco8ufMYjMrb+8ntIv/E7aTryMbOqbg+XyRM77Rdi/8z/Lqg==<br>=6Mtz<br>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>_______________________________________________<br>Archiver-policy mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Archiver-policy at python.org">Archiver-policy at python.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy</a></font></div></blockquote></body></html>

> _______________________________________________
> Archiver-policy mailing list
> Archiver-policy at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/archiver-policy




> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www


-- 
Patrick Ben Koetter <patrick at python.org>
Python.org Postmaster Team

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From barry at python.org  Mon Jan 16 15:37:22 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:37:22 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <20120116142649.GB12354@state-of-mind.de>
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
	<20120116142649.GB12354@state-of-mind.de>
Message-ID: <20120116093722.5fb57a74@limelight.wooz.org>

On Jan 16, 2012, at 03:26 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

>postmaster hat on:
>        Yes, we can blackout mail for that time

I think we'd also want to block archiver access to mail.python.org and throw
up an informative page.  Though if we do it, we should do it with all the
python.org web sites.

-Barry
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From lukasz at langa.pl  Mon Jan 16 16:30:55 2012
From: lukasz at langa.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?=A3ukasz_Langa?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:30:55 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <20120116093722.5fb57a74@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
	<20120116142649.GB12354@state-of-mind.de>
	<20120116093722.5fb57a74@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <42B7865B-54E3-494D-A5E4-0386D230C11B@langa.pl>

Wiadomo?? napisana przez Barry Warsaw w dniu 16 sty 2012, o godz. 15:37:

> Though if we do it, we should do it with all the python.org web sites.

$ pip install anything
Downloading/unpacking anything
  Cannot fetch index base URL http://pypi.python.org/simple/
  Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement anything
No distributions at all found for anything
Storing complete log in /home/user/.pip/pip.log


I wonder if we could come up with an error message for easy_install and pip that would indicate we're shut down because of SOPA.

-- 
Best regards,
?ukasz Langa
Senior Systems Architecture Engineer

IT Infrastructure Department
Grupa Allegro Sp. z o.o.


Pomy?l o ?rodowisku naturalnym zanim wydrukujesz t? wiadomo??!
Please consider the environment before printing out this e-mail.

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From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jan 16 17:31:38 2012
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:31:38 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <20120116142649.GB12354@state-of-mind.de>
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
	<20120116142649.GB12354@state-of-mind.de>
Message-ID: <4F1450EA.6070002@egenix.com>

Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> * Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>:
>> I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
>> sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
>> problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
>> Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
>> seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
>> recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well for
>> solidarity (and self-interest).
>>
>> I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
>> to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
>> technically feasible given our volunteer resources?
> 
> postmaster hat on:
>         Yes, we can blackout mail for that time
> 
> SOPA:
> Personally I don't think we need to start a discussion on it. We can just vote
> and do what the vote returns.

FWIW: I'm not sure whether the PSF should engage in such local
political discussions, being an organization with international
focus.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jan 16 2012)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From brandon at rhodesmill.org  Mon Jan 16 17:43:57 2012
From: brandon at rhodesmill.org (Brandon Craig Rhodes)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:43:57 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org> (Barry Warsaw's
	message of "Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:10:35 -0500")
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <87sjjfegxe.fsf@asaph.rhodesmill.org>

Python already has a reputation for being undeployable in an emergency
because PyPI does not stay up consistency enough.  Please imagine the
violence this will do to lone, hard-working Python supporters in the
back server rooms of big organizations, if they have to explain to their
bosses that the new web app cannot be deployed today; that they cannot
set up their old virtualenv's on their new laptop's hard drive; and that
they cannot even read any documentation, because of a protest going on
against a law over in the United States.

Shutting down the already-unreliable Python web infrastructure yet again
would not harm the SOPA supporters in the United States Congress.  But
it would harm our community the world over, and damage our reputation,
while not doing a whit to prevent SOPA from passing.

Python should strive to be the always-available, always-up, always-to-
the-rescue language for programmers everywhere.  Our form of protest
should be to become *more* available, *more* reliable; to reach out with
resources to programmers in countries that try to block python.org; and
to remain up until the very last moment, even if open-source one day has
to go underground.

Shutting down ahead of time would simply be to poke ourselves in our own
collective eyeball.

-- 
Brandon Craig Rhodes   brandon at rhodesmill.org   http://rhodesmill.org/brandon

From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 18:01:00 2012
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:01:00 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <87sjjfegxe.fsf@asaph.rhodesmill.org>
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
	<87sjjfegxe.fsf@asaph.rhodesmill.org>
Message-ID: <CAGMu_=oxPZbLigQt-vcNru0h-HZ1ugunB_Z16MuRJE7yHTnpDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Brandon Craig Rhodes <
brandon at rhodesmill.org> wrote:

> Python already has a reputation for being undeployable in an emergency
> because PyPI does not stay up consistency enough.  Please imagine the
> violence this will do to lone, hard-working Python supporters in the
> back server rooms of big organizations, if they have to explain to their
> bosses that the new web app cannot be deployed today; that they cannot
> set up their old virtualenv's on their new laptop's hard drive; and that
> they cannot even read any documentation, because of a protest going on
> against a law over in the United States.
>
> Shutting down the already-unreliable Python web infrastructure yet again
> would not harm the SOPA supporters in the United States Congress.  But
> it would harm our community the world over, and damage our reputation,
> while not doing a whit to prevent SOPA from passing.
>
> Python should strive to be the always-available, always-up, always-to-
> the-rescue language for programmers everywhere.  Our form of protest
> should be to become *more* available, *more* reliable; to reach out with
> resources to programmers in countries that try to block python.org; and
> to remain up until the very last moment, even if open-source one day has
> to go underground.
>
> Shutting down ahead of time would simply be to poke ourselves in our own
> collective eyeball.
>

+1000

This reminds me of a parellel that I saw both as a student and as a prof.
 Students would decide to go on strike to protest some issue.  Who was
penalized by the strike?  Certainly not the school administration, nor the
profs, nor the government: it was the students themselves.   Protests are
not very effective when it is the protesters (or their immediate community
and/or allies) that are inconvenienced.

Adding some sort of information banner about SOPA, it if is easily
feasible, might be a good idea.  But inconveniencing Python users is not,
imo, a good idea at this time.

Andr? Roberge


>
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>
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From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 08:54:26 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:54:26 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?
In-Reply-To: <CAGMu_=oxPZbLigQt-vcNru0h-HZ1ugunB_Z16MuRJE7yHTnpDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120116091035.7c21710d@limelight.wooz.org>
	<87sjjfegxe.fsf@asaph.rhodesmill.org>
	<CAGMu_=oxPZbLigQt-vcNru0h-HZ1ugunB_Z16MuRJE7yHTnpDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xLB=AVu0tMfpU77B1wzGCdiAXyV8ce7eCzvyVN=U9RGLw@mail.gmail.com>

If there are SOPA supporters amongst PSF sponsors then PSF is not
interested in any conflicts with them.
But Python is developed by community, so is PFS doesn't respect the
community opinion, it may do more harm.

Ignoring SOPA is a communication fail.
-- 
anatoly t.
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From patcam at python.org  Fri Jan 20 23:16:20 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:16:20 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] PSF- Board Meeting Minutes -Approved- December 2011
	- Please Post Online
Message-ID: <CAFy_4d+Vn4SHvm_q4ayE4HEbSdFgo6U9sgJn1zVYriXMP6+GRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Pydotorg:

Could you please post the following "PSF board meeting minutes" online,
http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/  at the usual web
locations:
please see the attachment for the approved board meeting minutes for
December 2011.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks,
Pat

-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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Title: 2011-12-19 PSF Board Meeting Minutes                
Encoding: utf-8
Author: psf at python.org
Content-Type: text/x-rst

.. declare custom role for action items:
.. role:: action

.. class:: minutes-title

| The Python Software Foundation
| Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the Board of Directors
|
| December 19, 2011
|
| 

A regular meeting of the Python Software Foundation ("PSF") Board of
Directors was held over Internet Relay Chat beginning at 16:00 UTC, 19
December 2011. Steve Holden presided at the meeting. Pat Campbell 
prepared the minutes.

All votes are reported in the form "*Y-N-A*" (*in favor ??? opposed ???
abstentions*; e.g. "5-1-2" means "5 in favor, 1 opposed, and 2
abstentions").


.. sectnum::
.. contents::


Attendance                                                                                                                                                                  
==========

The following members of the Board of Directors (9 of ll) were present at 
the meeting: Raymond Hettinger, Steve Holden, Marc-Andre Lemburg [arrived 
at 12:14], Martin von L?wis, David Mertz [arrived at 1:08], Jesse Noller, 
Tim Peters, Jeff Rush, and Gloria Willadsen. Also in attendance were Kurt 
Kaiser (Treasurer) and Pat Campbell (Secretary/Administrator).


Minutes of Past Meetings
========================

The 21 November 2011 Board meeting minutes were voted on and approved.

   **RESOLVED**, the minutes at http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board
   /2011-November/015898.html be accepted as a true and accurate record  

Approved, 6-0-1.


Votes Taken Between Meetings                                       
=============================

There were no votes taken between meetings.


Treasurer Report                                                                                                                                    															                                                                                           
================

The monthly Treasurer's Report was provided to Board members by K. 
Kaiser prior to the Board meeting and produced from Quickbooks Online.

Here is an exerpt from the treasurer's report on a few of the activities 
the treasurer has been focused on:

"YTD income was down by 6K in November.

  AR is down by 58K due to PyCon 2012 Sponsor invoicing/collection
  activity, offset by invoicing our PSF Sponsors.

  Donations for the month were $1769."                                                               

Kurt concluded his report with a list of financial business items he will  
be focused on, he said:

"My focus is on the Associate Member program and AR reduction.  I'm also
looking into fiscal sponsorship issues and working with Python Boston.
Restricted donations will have to be recognized in the year received
in accordance with non-profit GAAP." 

Board Meeting Discussion:

S. Holden: "I see our net profit for the year is moving towards $200,000."

K. Kaiser: "Well, not that high, and  won't go higher."

S. Holden: "It is still a very creditable performance, though. It's nice 
to see past losses being erased, and I am hoping that next year's PyCon will 
bring a boost to that revenue stream."

K. Kaiser: "Yes, thanks to Van [Lindberg] and Jesse [Noller]."


Progress Reports
================

The following board reports were submitted to the board mailing list
one week prior to this month's meeting. Please see a summary of each
board report listed below and a possible board discussion at the end
of the report(s):

Communication Status                                                              
--------------------

D. Hellmann, Communication Officer, reported on continued activities from
last month. He said:

   1. Send announcement email about the blog to various mailing lists
   (c.l.py, c.l.py.announce, etc.).

   *No progress.*

Doug also reported on the new activities for the month. The list of activities 
included the following:

   1. PyCon China post by Brian Curtin
  
     http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/12/first-annual-pycon-china-hit-in.html
  
   2. Grants for Porting to Python 3 post by Mike Driscoll
  
     http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/12/psf-proffers-payment-to-port-to-python.html  

  
He reported the following information on the planned activities for next month:

   Nothing specific.

As far as the ongoing projects for the month are concerned, he reported:

   1. Boston Python Workshop Grant post by Jessica McKellar
   
      http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/11/boston-python-workshop-psf-grant.html
   
   2. Brian Curtin is working on a post about the video equipment
      purchased by the PSF and how it has been used to record conference
      talks and other events.
   
   3. Recruiting other people to help write for the blog.
   
      A few volunteers have expressed interest, but things are getting
      off to a slow start.  I hope to have some more interesting topics
      to give them after the August Board meeting.
   
   4. Mike Driscoll is working on a retrospective post summarizing all of
      the funding we have provided for conferences over the last year. We
      will wait to publish until closer to the end of 2011.
   
   5. We have initiated a transition plan so Brian Curtin can take over
      as Communications Director around the time of the next Board
      elections after PyCon 2012.
    
For tabled activities, D. Hellmann said: 

   1. PyCon video equipment loan/rental program post
   
      There was some discussion of offering the PyCon video equipment to
      PUGs for their meetings, but the mechanism to do it isn't in place,
      yet.
   
   
Honorary Associate Membership WebPages/Links                                      
--------------------------------------------

P. Campbell, Honorary Associate Membership (HAM) WebPages Start-up 
Project, reported on the current issues or blockages the project may 
be faced with by saying:

"We have been in the technical phase of the Honorary Associate
Membership (HAM) Project for some time now. However, we are not too
far away from recruiting our first PSF Honorary Associate member.

Many technical hurdles have been jumped in order to setup the HAM program
and we are now beginning to see some movement toward getting the HAM website
page prepared for membership recruitment and subscriptions."

As far as the continued activities from last month are concerned, she reported:

"Since Kurt Kaiser, our treasurer, has been able to devote more time to the
HAM project implementation and setup, we should be able to set the launch date 
soon. However, Kurt is requesting help toward getting the website content
together.

Please see the message from Kurt Kaiser?s December 2011 treasurer?s report
regarding the current status of the technical phase of the HAM program 
implementation and maintenance:

    The text on HAM signup pages is preliminary and needs improvement.
    I'm looking for help here!
   
    Continuing work on a front page with Associate Member sign-up
    information. Decide how to present the HAM Membership to the world,
    probably via a python.org link. 
   
 
Marketing Material                                                                 
------------------

M.A.Lemburg, Marketing Material Project Manager, provided a summary
of his work. He said:

   The project is lead by Marc-Andr? Lemburg who is in contact with
   the people behind the Plone brochure created by the German Zope
   User Group (DZUG): Jan Ulrich Hasecke and Armin Stro?-Radschinski.

   We started working on the concept a few weeks after World Plone Day
   in April 2010 and had several meetings and conference calls to take
   the idea forward.

   For more details, please see the brochure support site at:

      http://brochure.getpython.info/learn-more

Marc-Andr? also reported on the progress of this project when he said:

   In the last month, we ran another round of emails by our leads
   which resulted in finally getting content from some of them.
   Interestingly, none of the press offices responded to our
   requests - I guess the direct approach is still the best to
   enter larger companies.
   
   Unfortunately, we did not manage to get content for some
   of the high profile leads we had - both legal departments
   and management took too long to come to a conclusion whether
   to submit a story or not. We will follow up with them for
   a possible second edition of the brochure.
   
   Overall, the content collection took about 4 months longer
   than expected. As a result, we are not going to be able to
   meet our set deadline of shipping the first edition of the
   brochure in time for PyCon US 2012 without putting the
   financials, success and quality of content at risk.
   
   Instead of shipping the final brochure, we're planing on
   sending a teaser or flyer for inclusion in the PyCon US
   conference bag. We hope to ramp up the number of subscription
   sponsors that way (*).
   
   As of now, we are working on compressing and finalizing the
   brochure text, getting texts translated, proof read and
   formatted for the brochure.
   
   Armin, our designer and producer, is working on an example
   double page based on the existing drafts to use in the
   sponsor acquisition phase, which is due to start as soon
   as the credit card payment system is set up.
   
   The latter was delayed due to having to go through three levels
   of providers/contracts, each with its own set of quirks
   and problems. Armin expects to have this done early in
   January.
   
   These are the available sponsorship plans we have available:
   
       http://brochure.getpython.info/sponsorship
   
   and here's the media data for the brochure:
   
       http://brochure.getpython.info/mediadata
   
   Esp. the reference entry sponsorships should be interesting for
   smaller Python companies:
   
       http://brochure.getpython.info/mediadata/reference-entry-guidelines
   
   (*) Subscription sponsors are sponsors that order boxes of brochures
   for their own use or to donate to interested parties such as
   universities, schools, administration, etc. These boxes are
   produced in addition to the original 10,000 copy edition, we
   will be printing - due to the way printing works, adding more
   copies to a single run is comparatively cheap, which allows
   us to keep the per brochure price low.

M.A Lemberg reported on the current issues the project is faced with.
He said:

   Even though the deadline for submission of stories for
   the first edition has already passed, we are still accepting
   stories. These will then be considered for a possible second
   edition and also be published on the web site.
   
   If you know of interesting projects or companies using Python
   to great things, please contact us and consider signing up as
   contact scout:
   
       http://brochure.getpython.info/signup/contact-scout-signup
   
   and, if you're interested in the project, please consider signing
   up to our newsletter:
   
       http://brochure.getpython.info/
   
   Thanks !

As far as future plans are concerned, he reported:

   If the project goes well, we'll follow up with a Python flyer,
   translated versions of the brochure and also consider creating
   marketing material more targeted at specific user groups or
   application fields.

   In the long run, we'd also like to take the idea of producing
   marketing material beyond printed material and develop booth
   setups, giveaways, CDs, etc. to support conference organizers and
   local user groups wishing to promote Python at their events.
   

Moving PyPI to Amazon CloudFront                                                 
--------------------------------

The project leader, M.A. Lemburg, Moving PyPI to Amazon CloudFront,
reported on progress for the month:

"The project is currently on hold, since the team members don't have
time to put into this."

In terms of having any issues surrounding his project, M. A.
Lemburg reported no issues except one: he said, he just does not have 
enough time to devote to his Moving PyPI to Amazon CloudFront project.

M. A. Lemburg also reported on future plans for the project:

"Check to see whether a trigger based approach to S3 syncing
wouldn't be easier to implement right from the start."


PyCon Chair                                                                         
-----------

J. Noller, PyCon Chair, provided us with information on when and where 
the next two PyCon US conferences will be held, in addition to the web 
location of the official PyCon 2012. Please see below:

PyCon 2012: March 7th ? 15th, Santa Clara, CA
PyCon 2013: March 11th ? 21st, Santa Clara, CA
Official Site: http://us.pycon.org/2012

He also provided "notes" for this month. He said:

   We are officially capping registration at 1500 attendees. The team feels that
   this is beneficial to the conference as a whole, and allows us to maintain the
   feel PyCon has grown into. We also feel this will encourage other regional
   conferences to grow in turn.

   I am working on a draft document to present to the board of directors that
   clarifies PyCon's position as a key fundraising entity for the Foundation. As
   the planning and execution of PyCon 2012 has continued, this has become more
   and more true. More later; some thoughts here:
   http://jessenoller.com/2011/09/23/pycon-2012-sponsorship-making-the-case-for-sponsorship/

For the month of October, Jesse reported on "Issues and blockages." He said:

   1. We are still waiting on AV/Recording vendor responses to our request for
   quotes. This is a concern - I'd like to lock these contracts down quickly, but
   can not make the bidding parties move more quickly. I have seen partial initial
   AV bids, but nothing concrete.

As far as the continued activities from last month, he reported:

   1. Sponsor signup is slowing down - this is no longer a priority issue.
   Invoicing continues thanks to Kurt's work. We have exceeded our initial
   sponsorship goals by 200%
   
   2. Financial updates will be sent to the private board list. We now have 77 sponsors.
   
   3. Registration for the conference and tutorials has officially launched - see:
   http://pycon.blogspot.com/2011/12/registration-for-pycon-2012-opened.html
   
   4. Idan Gazit has been tapped to do the artwork for the Program Guide and
   T-Shirts.
   
   5. Negotiations with Elegant Stitches are ongoing.
   
   6. The Tutorial committee has completed it's work, and the full schedule has
   been announced. We have an amazing line up of tutorials thanks to the hard work
   of the team:
   http://pycon.blogspot.com/2011/12/announcing-pycon-2012-tutorials.html
   
   7. The program committee has wrapped up the talk selection process. The final  
   talk selection and schedule are under way. Looking to announce this ASAP.
   
   8. We have announced a partnership with PyLadies for PyCon 2012. This means I  
   have increased the financial aid budget for this effort specifically:
   http://pyladies.com/blog/call-for-applications-and-sponsors-for-pyladies-pycon-us-2012/
   
   9. Financial aid is up and running as part of registration - due to the
   increased sponsorship levels, we will be performing a lot more FA/Outreach:
   https://us.pycon.org/2012/assistance/
     
Jesse also listed the new activities for the month. Please see below:

   1. Get solid quotes on t-shirt costs. [need to follow up]
   2. Signed freeman contract.
      
The last two PyCon US items reported on by Jesse were the activities "planned for 
next month" where he listed five (5) items and included a list of the "current Heads/Staff 
for PyCon 2012." 

   [see above]
   
   1. Finalize the main track talk selection, send out acceptance notices.
   3. Begin organizing the on-site and other volunteer staff.
   4. Get Startup row announced and launched (call for applications)
   7. Wrap up plenary talk selection.
   8. Outreach to all sponsors for required marketing materials.
   
   Current Heads/Staff for PyCon 2012   
   -----------------------------------------------------
   
   Chair: Jesse Noller
   Co-Chair: Yannick Gingras
   
   Accountant/Sponsors: Van Lindberg
   Event Coordinator: Ewa Jodlowska/CTE
   Public Relations Lead: Brian Curtin
   
   Tech Lead: Doug Napoleone
   Tech Co-Lead: Noah Kantrowtiz
   
   Volunteer Lead: TBD
   
   Program Committee Chair: Jacob Kaplan-Moss
   Program Committee Co-Chair: Tim Lesher
   
   Tutorials Chair: Stuart Williams
   Tutorials Co-Chair: TBD
   
   Posters Chair: Vern Ceder
   Posters Co-Chair: Zac Miller
   
   Financial Aide Chair: Peter Kropf
   Financial Aide Co-Chair: Gloria W.
     
However, under "tabled activities," he provided the following:

     None
     
Board Meeting Discussion:

J. Rush: "Do we have AV [audio/video] bids yet?"

J. Noller: "As it said in my report - No - although as of the end of last 
week we are zeroing in on the bids."


Sprint Committee                                                                     
----------------

J. Noller, Sprint Committee Chair, provided a summary of activities for
this month, he reported:

   No new sprint activity this month outside of catching up on the
   backlog of reimbursements.
   We were notified that our poster proposal to the PyCon US "poster
   session" was accepted.

As far as the continued activities from last month, he reported:

   None

On his report of the new activities for the month, J. Noller said:

   Submitted reimbursement details for the Plone Conference sprints to
   Kurt and are awaiting fulfillment. The repayment details are slightly
   different than we normally receive, but they seem workable.

   
Trademarks Committee (TMC)
--------------------------

D. Mertz, Trademarks Committee Chair, reported on issues & blockages for 
the month. He said:

   - Probably moot by now, but never a formal answer from PSF counsel several 
   times about whether assignment of derived logos to the PSF might allow us 
   to grant broader permission (for what would then, hypothetically) be PSF 
   trademarks.

As far as reporting on new activities, however, he provided the following 
list of items:

   - Mid December: Esri Press is currently developing a manuscript, Python 
   Scripting for ArcGIS.  They asked permission for a book cover design that 
   I, as chair, initially thought was "inspired but not derived" from out logo.  
   However, the opinion of other members was that it was a derived logo; I 
   responded to Brian Harris <bharris at esri.com> with a request that they use 
   an alternate cover design not suggesting logo (which he indicated they had 
   created; though we have not seen it).
   
   - Mid December: Jack Preston <jackprestonuk at gmail.com> requested use of logo 
   and Python code sample as design on coffee mugs for same at Zazzle.co.uk.  We 
   authorized unmodified logo use but requested he consider donation part of 
   proceeds to PSF.
   
   - Late November: Approved Perry Leijten <perryleijten at gmail.com> to use "3D" 
   version of logo to illustrate personal website illustrating Python in Maya.
   
   - Early December: Devi thirupathi <tdevi5 at gmail.com> requested use of Python 
   logo and name for an academic conference on Python.  We clarified that his use 
   was nominative.
   
   - Late November: Continued clarification with Adam Mechtley 
   <adam.mechtley at gmail.com> on his revised cover design for Maya Python book 
   and website.  Modified versions maintain shape suitably.
   
   - Late October: "Dr. Markus Wirtz" <mw at opensourcepress.de> requested use of 
   logo on book _PyQt and PySide_ and we clarified that the proposed use was fine.  
   The logo used some coloration change, but the shape is maintained.
   
   - Late October: Clarified for Christophe BAL <projetmbc at gmail.com> that the 
   logo in isolation, apart from the word mark, was covered in our nominative 
   use policy.
   
   - Mid October: Clarified for ?ric Araujo <merwok at netwok.org> that use of 
   unmodified logo in incorporation into an "avatar" logo is covered in 
   nominative use.
   
   - Early October: Clarified for John Anderson <sontek at gmail.com> of Cafe Press 
   that unmodified use of logo in clothing items is covered in nominative use.
   
   - Early October: Clarified for Kami Lott <kami at github.com> on unmodified use 
   of logo in clothing being covered in nominative use.
   
   - Early October: Clarified for Aidan Hartman <aidan at datapro.net> that he was 
   permitted to use "Python Powered" logo on personal website.
   
   - Late September: Authorized Bruno Rocha <rochacbruno at gmail.com> 
   of www.cursodepython.com.br to use unmodified logo in clothing items.

He also reported on "ongoing projects." He said:
   
   - Need to write to http://www.pylatte.org/ to express concern what looks 
   like an improper modified version of the logo.
   
- Never really resolved preference of submitted logos for Python sponsor 
levels, should really finally decide this.

Board Meeting Discussion:

S. Holden: "We are getting more tradesmark inquiries nowadays, and they are 
being dealt with with reasonable despatch, I think. I was worried though 
whether we can have better tracking for tradesmark requests."

M.v L?wis: "i.e. somehow make sure that they all get responded to. Pat [Campbell,
Administrator], is that something that you could take?"

S. Holden: "Such as a tracking system? We could do that if David [Mertz, TMC
Chair] will accept it into his workflow, I suppose."

P. Campbell: "It sounds good to me."

The above TMC discussion was deferred to email.


2011 - Q4 Community Service Award Nominations
=============================================

The board discussed and then selected Mike M?ller and Armin Rigo 
as the recipients of the 2011-4th Quarter PSF Community Service Award.

   **RESOLVED**, that Mike M?ller and Armin Rigo be given Python 
   Community Service Awards for 2011-4th Quarter.
   
Approved, 8-0-0.


2012 Members Meeting & Election
================================

Planning is underway for the 2012 Members meeting that will take place at
PyCon 2012 in Santa Clara, California and also the 2012 members election 
which will take place online two weeks following the members meeting. 

This discussion was primarily guided by the PSF secretary and was deferred 
to email.


Sponsor Membership Application from Epom
=========================================

Due to an incomplete application package from Epom, the board
decided to table this agenda item and hold-off voting until the 
2012 January board meeting. This decision was made in order to 
give Epom enough time to get the remainder of their membership 
application paperwork into the board for a timely board review 
of the company.


Archival Storage for PyCon US Videos
=====================================

The board discussed PyCon US need of funding for storage of their 
video archives. However, due to a lack of information about the type
of storage needed for the project and the cost, this agenda item was 
tabled. Board members will resume this discussion and vote at a later 
date when more information is available. 


Other Business                                                                                     
===============

Message of Seasonal Cheer!
--------------------------

Towards the end of the meeting the chairman (S. Holden) wished everyone 
a "Happy Christmas and whatever other festivals you celebrate."


Adjournment
===========

S. Holden adjourned the meeting at 17:10 UTC.

From brian at python.org  Sat Jan 21 00:20:18 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:20:18 -0600
Subject: [pydotorg-www] PSF- Board Meeting Minutes -Approved- December
 2011 - Please Post Online
In-Reply-To: <CAFy_4d+Vn4SHvm_q4ayE4HEbSdFgo6U9sgJn1zVYriXMP6+GRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFy_4d+Vn4SHvm_q4ayE4HEbSdFgo6U9sgJn1zVYriXMP6+GRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpHX8zyN-5xZKtArbeHq+jifjmjVziaZi4HtzTFOqL9pA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 16:16, Pat Campbell <patcam at python.org> wrote:
> Hello Pydotorg:
>
> Could you please post the following "PSF board meeting minutes" online,
> http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/? at the usual web
> locations:
> please see the attachment for the approved board meeting minutes for
> December 2011.

Here you go: http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/2011-12-19/

From patcam at python.org  Sat Jan 21 02:29:35 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:29:35 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] PSF- Board Meeting Minutes -Approved- December
 2011 - Please Post Online
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpHX8zyN-5xZKtArbeHq+jifjmjVziaZi4HtzTFOqL9pA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFy_4d+Vn4SHvm_q4ayE4HEbSdFgo6U9sgJn1zVYriXMP6+GRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpHX8zyN-5xZKtArbeHq+jifjmjVziaZi4HtzTFOqL9pA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFy_4d+if-3pr3+HhxMtb0=5xDU4==uuJrjTLBC3yc988mqZfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Brian -- looks great!!

Pat

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 16:16, Pat Campbell <patcam at python.org> wrote:
> > Hello Pydotorg:
> >
> > Could you please post the following "PSF board meeting minutes" online,
> > http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/  at the usual web
> > locations:
> > please see the attachment for the approved board meeting minutes for
> > December 2011.
>
> Here you go: http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/2011-12-19/
>



-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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From patcam at python.org  Mon Jan 23 22:44:22 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:44:22 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Board Resolutions from October through December 2011
 Board Meetings - Please Post Online
Message-ID: <CAFy_4d+3A3zXOCpw2UgkCUN7OnTjf1TY=j0xyWSSkwqeBRiWdA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pydotorg:

Board Resolutions from October through December 2011 Board Meetings



Hi pydotorg team:



Could you please add the following board resolution from the

October through December 2011  board meetings to this web page:



http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/resolutions/



Please see the list of board resolutions to be added below:





***RESOLVED***, that Mike M?ller and Armin Rigo be given Python

Community Service Awards for 2011-4th Quarter.

Approved, 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 19 December 2011.

Thanks,

Pat






-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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From mfoord at python.org  Mon Jan 23 23:06:00 2012
From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:06:00 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: python-win32 mailing list: Bug in Mailman
	version 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <4F1DD918.1070305@skippinet.com.au>
References: <4F1DD918.1070305@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4F1DD9C8.8000407@python.org>

Hey Barry,

I believe this is your domain. I've copied in pydotorg-www as well just 
in case there is anyone there who can prod the right bits.

Michael

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	python-win32 mailing list: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12
Date: 	Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:03:04 +1100
From: 	Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au>
To: 	webmaster at python.org



When visiting http://mail.python.org/mailman/admindb/python-win32 to
perform moderation on the mailing list, I receive the following text:

"""
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
"""

So I'm informing the webmaster :)

Thanks,

Mark


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From barry at python.org  Mon Jan 23 23:38:19 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:38:19 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] python-win32 mailing list: Bug in Mailman
	version 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <4F1DD9C8.8000407@python.org>
References: <4F1DD918.1070305@skippinet.com.au> <4F1DD9C8.8000407@python.org>
Message-ID: <20120123173819.11d15656@resist.wooz.org>

On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:06 PM, Michael Foord wrote:

>I believe this is your domain. I've copied in pydotorg-www as well just in
>case there is anyone there who can prod the right bits.

Thanks Michael.  postmaster at python.org works best for stuff like this.  I
forwarded it (and will take a look if nobody else does before I find some
time).

-Barry
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From michael at python.org  Tue Jan 24 00:49:19 2012
From: michael at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:49:19 +0000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] python-win32 mailing list: Bug in Mailman
	version 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <20120123173819.11d15656@resist.wooz.org>
References: <4F1DD918.1070305@skippinet.com.au> <4F1DD9C8.8000407@python.org>
	<20120123173819.11d15656@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <965613BB-6D05-47CE-A416-9683680E79E6@python.org>

Hello Barry,

Thanks I'll try and remember that for next time (although thankfully such problems are rare). Would it be possible to update the error page to point people to the postmaster address instead of the webmaster one?

All the best,

Michael Foord

On 23 Jan 2012, at 22:38, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:06 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
> 
>> I believe this is your domain. I've copied in pydotorg-www as well just in
>> case there is anyone there who can prod the right bits.
> 
> Thanks Michael.  postmaster at python.org works best for stuff like this.  I
> forwarded it (and will take a look if nobody else does before I find some
> time).
> 
> -Barry


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From patcam at python.org  Tue Jan 24 22:04:30 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:04:30 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www]
	=?windows-1252?q?New_Members_to_Membership_Roster_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?Web_Page_=96_Please_Add?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFy_4dLexUBCQo8B-JxNAdm=_G6L6+hHGZ3irMuyLaxDfZu7rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFy_4dLexUBCQo8B-JxNAdm=_G6L6+hHGZ3irMuyLaxDfZu7rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFy_4dLsohTvzCN471Z9Ju-_eUK7JFhU+VKU7PhJvY2B_5sbYg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pydotorg:

Could you please see the email below and add the
July 2011 new members names to the membership
roster.

It must have been an oversight for the new members
names to not been added/posted to the website in
uly 2011 when the request was originally made.

Thanking you in advance,
Pat

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Pat Campbell <patcam at python.org> wrote:

> Hi Pydotorg Team:
>
>
>
> Please add the July 2011 new members to the members? web page at
>
>
>
> http://www.python.org/psf/members/
>
>
>
> *July 2011 - New Nominated Members:*
>
>
>
> Giovanni Bajo
>
> Massimo DiPierro
>
> Mike Driscoll
>
> Alex Gaynor
>
> Asheesh Laroia
>
> Jessica McKellar
>
> Tetsuya Morimoto
>
> Paulo Nuin
>
> Audrey Roy
>
> Gavin M. Roy
>
>
> If you have any questions, please let me know.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pat
>
>
> --
> Pat Campbell
> PSF Administrator/Secretary
> patcam at python.org
>



-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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From brian at python.org  Tue Jan 24 22:12:57 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:12:57 -0600
Subject: [pydotorg-www]
	=?windows-1252?q?New_Members_to_Membership_Roster_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?Web_Page_=96_Please_Add?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFy_4dLsohTvzCN471Z9Ju-_eUK7JFhU+VKU7PhJvY2B_5sbYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFy_4dLexUBCQo8B-JxNAdm=_G6L6+hHGZ3irMuyLaxDfZu7rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFy_4dLsohTvzCN471Z9Ju-_eUK7JFhU+VKU7PhJvY2B_5sbYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwp8+Xvb2RopWP29dGL=WFmfV0f=1ZBkMqA_nEGH9REoXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 15:04, Pat Campbell <patcam at python.org> wrote:
> Hi Pydotorg:
>
> Could you please see the email below and add the
> July 2011 new members names to the membership
> roster.
>
> It must have been an oversight for the new members
> names to not been added/posted to the website in
> uly 2011 when the request was originally made.

The list is now up to date: http://www.python.org/psf/members/

From patcam at python.org  Tue Jan 24 22:32:23 2012
From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:32:23 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www]
	=?windows-1252?q?New_Members_to_Membership_Roster_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?Web_Page_=96_Please_Add?=
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwp8+Xvb2RopWP29dGL=WFmfV0f=1ZBkMqA_nEGH9REoXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFy_4dLexUBCQo8B-JxNAdm=_G6L6+hHGZ3irMuyLaxDfZu7rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFy_4dLsohTvzCN471Z9Ju-_eUK7JFhU+VKU7PhJvY2B_5sbYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwp8+Xvb2RopWP29dGL=WFmfV0f=1ZBkMqA_nEGH9REoXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFy_4dKJb=5-+i1DEMi4qNKUb39OZDJTSPLsZQP+7qqUqWQ+gg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Brian!!

Pat

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 15:04, Pat Campbell <patcam at python.org> wrote:
> > Hi Pydotorg:
> >
> > Could you please see the email below and add the
> > July 2011 new members names to the membership
> > roster.
> >
> > It must have been an oversight for the new members
> > names to not been added/posted to the website in
> > uly 2011 when the request was originally made.
>
> The list is now up to date: http://www.python.org/psf/members/
>



-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org
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From barry at python.org  Tue Jan 24 23:41:08 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:41:08 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] python-win32 mailing list: Bug in Mailman
	version 2.1.12
In-Reply-To: <965613BB-6D05-47CE-A416-9683680E79E6@python.org>
References: <4F1DD918.1070305@skippinet.com.au> <4F1DD9C8.8000407@python.org>
	<20120123173819.11d15656@resist.wooz.org>
	<965613BB-6D05-47CE-A416-9683680E79E6@python.org>
Message-ID: <20120124174108.4a045af8@resist.wooz.org>

On Jan 23, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Michael Foord wrote:

>Thanks I'll try and remember that for next time (although thankfully such
>problems are rare). Would it be possible to update the error page to point
>people to the postmaster address instead of the webmaster one?

Probably, but I have no idea where that error page comes from. ;)

-Barry
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From jeremy at tuxmachine.com  Wed Jan 25 18:14:27 2012
From: jeremy at tuxmachine.com (Jeremy Baron)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:14:27 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] make m.p.o/mailman/ redirect to listinfo?
Message-ID: <CAE-2OCa+RABSzUzdWc7aHo4qs0LFAv5cbLC6xGtjWFGW8TjkWw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

IMHO, http://mail.python.org/mailman/ should do something useful
rather than throw a 403. I suggest 30[12] -> listinfo.

Thanks,
Jeremy

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Jan 26 10:45:17 2012
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:45:17 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] make m.p.o/mailman/ redirect to listinfo?
In-Reply-To: <CAE-2OCa+RABSzUzdWc7aHo4qs0LFAv5cbLC6xGtjWFGW8TjkWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE-2OCa+RABSzUzdWc7aHo4qs0LFAv5cbLC6xGtjWFGW8TjkWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120126094517.GJ14406@charite.de>

* Jeremy Baron <jeremy at tuxmachine.com>:
> Hi,
> 
> IMHO, http://mail.python.org/mailman/ should do something useful
> rather than throw a 403. I suggest 30[12] -> listinfo.

I fixed it. Please test.
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt                   Charite Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de        Campus Benjamin Franklin
http://www.charite.de              Hindenburgdamm 30, 12203 Berlin
Gesch?ftsbereich IT, Abt. Netzwerk fon: +49-30-450.570.155

From barry at python.org  Thu Jan 26 16:06:37 2012
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:06:37 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] make m.p.o/mailman/ redirect to listinfo?
In-Reply-To: <20120126094517.GJ14406@charite.de>
References: <CAE-2OCa+RABSzUzdWc7aHo4qs0LFAv5cbLC6xGtjWFGW8TjkWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120126094517.GJ14406@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20120126100637.09a723d0@limelight.wooz.org>

On Jan 26, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>* Jeremy Baron <jeremy at tuxmachine.com>:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> IMHO, http://mail.python.org/mailman/ should do something useful
>> rather than throw a 403. I suggest 30[12] -> listinfo.
>
>I fixed it. Please test.

wfm, thanks!

-Barry

From jeremy at tuxmachine.com  Thu Jan 26 16:29:59 2012
From: jeremy at tuxmachine.com (Jeremy Baron)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:29:59 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] make m.p.o/mailman/ redirect to listinfo?
In-Reply-To: <20120126100637.09a723d0@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <CAE-2OCa+RABSzUzdWc7aHo4qs0LFAv5cbLC6xGtjWFGW8TjkWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120126094517.GJ14406@charite.de>
	<20120126100637.09a723d0@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <CAE-2OCZfniV_mKBVjqo9mgJZFOxQ4g-GgYt-RMn0NxFsNK=Y4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:06, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>>* Jeremy Baron <jeremy at tuxmachine.com>:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> IMHO, http://mail.python.org/mailman/ should do something useful
>>> rather than throw a 403. I suggest 30[12] -> listinfo.
>>
>>I fixed it. Please test.
>
> wfm, thanks!

wfm too, thanks.

-Jeremy

$ curl -vsL http://mail.python.org/mailman/ 2>&1 >/dev/null | egrep -e
'^> GET ' -e '^< HTTP/1' -e '^< Location' -e '^\* Issue another
request to this URL: '\'
> GET /mailman/ HTTP/1.1
< HTTP/1.1 302 Found
< Location: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
* Issue another request to this URL: 'http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo'
> GET /mailman/listinfo HTTP/1.1
< HTTP/1.1 200 OK

From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 21:32:20 2012
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:32:20 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org
 (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xKm2dsPeG8YFsLR=zR+dJbC6JfsOwE61mNzXdST8hOTkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKpEYp=4pZ_Eox8xUTZzc5y+KmtzFvWaXSxrVJ3301iaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2VPS1wPL8it3YgCmHcph46n677BzfutmU0hbdoddHuzbu38A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEFBD8A.2050907@v.loewis.de> <201112200107.50280.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<4EF04639.9020905@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8x+76wojx_p_jAtJYwY8jMb1KhKzXELSHSLbG9CKbr2y6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xKrqUCUYs2nvGB-PcVRQ3BFanvzJBmsFGY4Q7WixQsPsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EFB37D9.5000101@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJu2Gk75e04oyjgEvpeMqST_Pq4ng=HvS6p2Z4F-CZstw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05856C.1080108@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xJwwW7D1qKfhUp+bzJ==bZ-F4JchP5v5gN5wHxmbsML_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F05EE1D.8090900@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xKm2dsPeG8YFsLR=zR+dJbC6JfsOwE61mNzXdST8hOTkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xLxh2r+giYiwqPdQ6K_=qkHKms+BHbbMZMHbRZLLfo+FA@mail.gmail.com>

This got stuck again. Anybody to give me access to the necessary
configuration to send you a patch?
-- 
anatoly t.
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