From david at boddie.org.uk  Sun Jun  1 00:38:30 2014
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 00:38:30 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki access
Message-ID: <201406010038.30576.david@boddie.org.uk>

Hi,

I'm trying to migrate some content from the PyQt Wiki to the Python Wiki
under the PyQt page. Can you enable edit permissions for DavidBoddie please?

David

From barry at python.org  Sun Jun  1 05:48:59 2014
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 23:48:59 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>

On May 31, 2014, at 10:49 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

>I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does
>get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and
>new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write
>to this mailing list to be added to the group.

TBH, we've been doing this on the Mailman wiki for years now.  Of course, we
don't have as high a contributor rate as the Python wiki, and I wish I didn't
have to take that step, but it *has* reduced the spam rate to nearly zero.
I'm sure there's been a cost in drive-by contributions, but we do get
occasional requests for write permissions and it's trivial to add folks to the
"editors" group.

-Barry

From mal at egenix.com  Sun Jun  1 10:21:23 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 10:21:23 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki access
In-Reply-To: <201406010038.30576.david@boddie.org.uk>
References: <201406010038.30576.david@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <538AE283.507@egenix.com>

On 01.06.2014 00:38, David Boddie wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to migrate some content from the PyQt Wiki to the Python Wiki
> under the PyQt page. Can you enable edit permissions for DavidBoddie please?

Done :-)

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 01 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 31 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 19:55:44 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:55:44 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On May 31, 2014, at 10:49 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>
> >I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does
> >get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and
> >new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write
> >to this mailing list to be added to the group.
>
> TBH, we've been doing this on the Mailman wiki for years now.  Of course,
> we
> don't have as high a contributor rate as the Python wiki, and I wish I
> didn't
> have to take that step, but it *has* reduced the spam rate to nearly zero.
> I'm sure there's been a cost in drive-by contributions, but we do get
> occasional requests for write permissions and it's trivial to add folks to
> the
> "editors" group.


Do you have stats about decline in contributions thank to this measure?

Is the competence debt in MoinMoin is so big nowadays that there is no
Moderation Queue plugin for new users?
-- 
anatoly t.
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From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Jun  1 20:53:45 2014
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:53:45 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
	default permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
 <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Sunday 1. June 2014 19.55.44 anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> > On May 31, 2014, at 10:49 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> > >I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does
> > >get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and
> > >new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write
> > >to this mailing list to be added to the group.
> > 
> > TBH, we've been doing this on the Mailman wiki for years now.  Of course,
> > we
> > don't have as high a contributor rate as the Python wiki, and I wish I
> > didn't
> > have to take that step, but it *has* reduced the spam rate to nearly
> > zero. I'm sure there's been a cost in drive-by contributions, but we do
> > get occasional requests for write permissions and it's trivial to add
> > folks to the
> > "editors" group.
> 
> Do you have stats about decline in contributions thank to this measure?

You can get the stats about a decline in "contributions" by just looking at 
how many spam edits were taking place during any given period and how many 
there will be for a corresponding period in future. But for serious 
contributions, of course there are no statistics: the measure has been in 
place for a matter of hours.

I'm not entirely sure what measures Confluence had for spam prevention before 
the Mailman Wiki made a similar move, but I would imagine that there weren't 
very many given the amount of spam I saw in the site content for that wiki. 
From what I can see, this didn't stop committed contributors from improving 
that site.

> Is the competence debt in MoinMoin is so big nowadays that there is no
> Moderation Queue plugin for new users?

There are people working on MoinMoin, so I suggest you ask in their IRC 
channel: #moin on Freenode, if I'm not mistaken. Alternatively, you could look 
on the Moin site for extensions and find at least two for moderation, one of 
which I wrote a while back and is actually in use on a site for a project that 
I believe you have dealt with in the past (and maybe still have some dealings 
with). It's entirely possible that you have no idea they're using my extension 
for moderation at all and yet have edited that site.

But here's the disagreement: some people think that the barrier to editing 
public Internet sites should be low and yet magically repel defacement; others 
think that getting serious contributors to demonstrate their commitment to 
making quality edits isn't that hard and that they actually won't mind doing 
so (because they are, after all, committed).

Experience shows that magically repelling defacement of Internet sites, whilst 
somewhat possible with some interesting measures that could be implemented for 
Moin, is a bit like announcing a generously catered party for one's closest 
friends in the most public and open way possible, not assigning some rather 
"persuasive" people to the venue entrance, and then somehow avoiding random 
vandals and hooligans from inviting themselves in and trashing the place.

Meanwhile, some of us have better things to do with our time than to "muck 
out" public Internet resources so that lazy people and vandals can use them at 
their own convenience.

Paul

From techtonik at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 23:39:55 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 00:39:55 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
 <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

> On Sunday 1. June 2014 19.55.44 anatoly techtonik wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> > > On May 31, 2014, at 10:49 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> > > >I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does
> > > >get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and
> > > >new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write
> > > >to this mailing list to be added to the group.
> > >
> > > TBH, we've been doing this on the Mailman wiki for years now.  Of
> course,
> > > we
> > > don't have as high a contributor rate as the Python wiki, and I wish I
> > > didn't
> > > have to take that step, but it *has* reduced the spam rate to nearly
> > > zero. I'm sure there's been a cost in drive-by contributions, but we do
> > > get occasional requests for write permissions and it's trivial to add
> > > folks to the
> > > "editors" group.
> >
> > Do you have stats about decline in contributions thank to this measure?
>
> You can get the stats about a decline in "contributions" by just looking at
> how many spam edits were taking place during any given period and how many
> there will be for a corresponding period in future. But for serious
> contributions, of course there are no statistics: the measure has been in
> place for a matter of hours.


You need to count non-reverted edits before and after the certain date.
That's all.
And am curious about Mailman - it is clear that for w.p.o there is no stats
yet.

I'm not entirely sure what measures Confluence had for spam prevention
> before
> the Mailman Wiki made a similar move, but I would imagine that there
> weren't
> very many given the amount of spam I saw in the site content for that wiki.
>

Didn't know Mailman chose proprietary software for the wiki.


> From what I can see, this didn't stop committed contributors from improving
> that site.


Being alone contributor is not fun either.

 > Is the competence debt in MoinMoin is so big nowadays that there is no
> > Moderation Queue plugin for new users?
>
> There are people working on MoinMoin, so I suggest you ask in their IRC
> channel: #moin on Freenode, if I'm not mistaken. Alternatively, you could
> look
> on the Moin site for extensions and find at least two for moderation, one
> of
> which I wrote a while back and is actually in use on a site for a project
> that
> I believe you have dealt with in the past (and maybe still have some
> dealings
> with). It's entirely possible that you have no idea they're using my
> extension
> for moderation at all and yet have edited that site.
>

I found only one - http://moinmo.in/ActionMarket/ApproveChanges - it looks
good except that Moderation Queue will be more useful if it is global and
visible by anyone. More people will be aware of it and it could be
crowdsourced.


> But here's the disagreement: some people think that the barrier to editing
> public Internet sites should be low and yet magically repel defacement;
> others
> think that getting serious contributors to demonstrate their commitment to
> making quality edits isn't that hard and that they actually won't mind
> doing
> so (because they are, after all, committed).
>
> Experience shows that magically repelling defacement of Internet sites,
> whilst
> somewhat possible with some interesting measures that could be implemented
> for
> Moin, is a bit like announcing a generously catered party for one's closest
> friends in the most public and open way possible, not assigning some rather
> "persuasive" people to the venue entrance, and then somehow avoiding random
> vandals and hooligans from inviting themselves in and trashing the place.
>

The cost of defacement should be higher than a cost of revert. If defacement
edits are not indexed, there is no motivation to write bots for it.


> Meanwhile, some of us have better things to do with our time than to "muck
> out" public Internet resources so that lazy people and vandals can use
> them at
> their own convenience.


I still think that the problem with wasted time is a software problem.
-- 
anatoly t.
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From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Jun  2 00:10:25 2014
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 00:10:25 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
	default permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>
 <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201406020010.25400.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Sunday 1. June 2014 23.39.55 anatoly techtonik wrote:
> 
> You need to count non-reverted edits before and after the certain date.
> That's all.
> And am curious about Mailman - it is clear that for w.p.o there is no stats
> yet.

There is probably a way to get stats, but it isn't a high priority for me, 
unfortunately.

[...]

> Didn't know Mailman chose proprietary software for the wiki.

Which is where I stepped in. At some point it will be deployed on MoinMoin, 
and then the matter of moderation will be reviewed, but it'll be up to Barry 
and company to decide what they do.

> > From what I can see, this didn't stop committed contributors from
> > improving that site.
> 
> Being alone contributor is not fun either.

True enough. First of all, however, one must provide an environment where 
people's contributions are visible and valued. People probably don't bother 
contributing to sites that are heavily vandalised, just as most people don't 
tend to physically hang out for fun in heavily vandalised urban areas (unless 
they have no other choice).

[...]

> I found only one - http://moinmo.in/ActionMarket/ApproveChanges - it looks
> good except that Moderation Queue will be more useful if it is global and
> visible by anyone. More people will be aware of it and it could be
> crowdsourced.

That's an interesting idea which I might try and implement in some way. You 
can, of course, make it accessible by all your site's existing contributors, 
which one might argue is what you really want, though.

[...]

> The cost of defacement should be higher than a cost of revert. If
> defacement edits are not indexed, there is no motivation to write bots for
> it.

One motivation for doing a secret approval queue is that the edits are not 
visible at all. Spammers are stupid enough to spam even when their edits are 
marked as non-indexable because they only care about volume, perhaps getting 
paid by the spam - who knows? When their edits appear to go into a black hole, 
there is the slightly higher chance that they get the message and spam 
elsewhere.

> > Meanwhile, some of us have better things to do with our time than to
> > "muck out" public Internet resources so that lazy people and vandals can
> > use them at their own convenience.
> 
> I still think that the problem with wasted time is a software problem.

It is certainly true that tools can save people's time in dealing with 
defacement. But when people have to choose between doing useful work and 
cleaning up other people's vandalism, any preventative measures will take 
precedence over either of those things.

Paul

From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Jun  2 00:45:21 2014
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 17:45:21 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
 <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>
 <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSSgA=soz-6d+moccQagupJFZWBTGtb5uxa8LoXP8koHBwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 4:39 PM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
wrote:

> But here's the disagreement: some people think that the barrier to editing
>> public Internet sites should be low and yet magically repel defacement;
>> others
>> think that getting serious contributors to demonstrate their commitment to
>> making quality edits isn't that hard and that they actually won't mind
>> doing
>> so (because they are, after all, committed).
>>
>
I likely agree, but your word choice needs work ;)


>
>> Experience shows that magically repelling defacement of Internet sites,
>> whilst
>> somewhat possible with some interesting measures that could be
>> implemented for
>> Moin, is a bit like announcing a generously catered party for one's
>> closest
>> friends in the most public and open way possible, not assigning some
>> rather
>> "persuasive" people to the venue entrance, and then somehow avoiding
>> random
>> vandals and hooligans from inviting themselves in and trashing the place.
>>
>
> The cost of defacement should be higher than a cost of revert.
>

No one wants to spend any of their time reverting, regardless of how easy
it is or hard it was to deface.



> If defacement
> edits are not indexed, there is no motivation to write bots for it.
>
>


I suspect the bots and owners do not try to figure out how effective the
bot is.  If it finds a likely target, it will do it's thing and move on to
the next target.   That is way easier than examining the results.

It isn't easy to figure out about how low the barrier to entry should
be.    In the case of a wiki, I am find missing out on the spelling errors
getting corrected if it means no one has to clean up spam.  The barrier
needs to be high enough that all the spammers go somewhere else.  I suspect
that will mean the effort to make a trivial edit is at least doubled or
tripled. I think that is fine.

It is *way* more fun to jump though hoops to be productive than
jump though hoops to undo something that could be prevented.



-- 
Carl K
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From barry at python.org  Mon Jun  2 04:31:39 2014
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 22:31:39 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
 <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>
 <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140601223139.41197738@limelight.wooz.org>

On Jun 02, 2014, at 12:39 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote:

>You need to count non-reverted edits before and after the certain date.
>That's all.  And am curious about Mailman - it is clear that for w.p.o there
>is no stats yet.

I suppose it's possible to get some stats out of the Mailman wiki, but all I
have are anecdotal.

>Didn't know Mailman chose proprietary software for the wiki.

That's why we've been trying to switch to Moin for so long.  Paul has done
outstanding work in converting the data to Moin - we just need a VM to deploy
it.

-Barry
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From mal at python.org  Mon Jun  2 10:55:03 2014
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:55:03 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Access to www.python.org without going through the
	cache
Message-ID: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>

When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult
to tell whether edits are correct or not, since it takes ages for
the caches to receive the updates from the Django CMS.

Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the
backend system without going through Fastly ?

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 12:26:51 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 13:26:51 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Access to www.python.org without going through
	the cache
In-Reply-To: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+dzQ4aOR3tV0C0=KmHn49=7JsDb1y3YM+6mTSxM49jUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult
> to tell whether edits are correct or not, since it takes ages for
> the caches to receive the updates from the Django CMS.
>
> Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the
> backend system without going through Fastly ?
>

Or implicitly cause Fastly cache invalidation on edit?
-- 
anatoly t.
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From donald at stufft.io  Mon Jun  2 12:48:44 2014
From: donald at stufft.io (Donald Stufft)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 06:48:44 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
	without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
Message-ID: <F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>

It?s kind of a kludge, but just add a parameter to the URL, like ?foo=12332131
the full URL is used as part of the cache key.

On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:55 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult
> to tell whether edits are correct or not, since it takes ages for
> the caches to receive the updates from the Django CMS.
> 
> Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the
> backend system without going through Fastly ?
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> ________________________________________________
> Infrastructure mailing list
> Infrastructure at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/donald%40stufft.io


-----------------
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

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From mal at python.org  Mon Jun  2 13:50:05 2014
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:50:05 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
 without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
 <F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>
Message-ID: <538C64ED.5090508@python.org>

On 02.06.2014 12:48, Donald Stufft wrote:
> It?s kind of a kludge, but just add a parameter to the URL, like ?foo=12332131 the full URL is
> used as part of the cache key.

Thanks, this does work, but it would still be better to have
a domain which can be used for testing the edits immediately and
without having to hand edit each page URL (and remember to bump
the foo value for each edit cycle), something like www.int.python.org or
www-nocache.python.org.

> On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:55 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
> 
>> When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult to tell whether edits are
>> correct or not, since it takes ages for the caches to receive the updates from the Django
>> CMS.
>> 
>> Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the backend system without going
>> through Fastly ?
>> 
>> Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director Python Software Foundation http://www.python.org/psf/ 
>> ________________________________________________ Infrastructure mailing list 
>> Infrastructure at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure 
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/donald%40stufft.io
> 
> 
> ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C
> BCE9 3372 DCFA
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________ Infrastructure mailing list 
> Infrastructure at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/mal%40egenix.com
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/

From donald at stufft.io  Mon Jun  2 13:52:05 2014
From: donald at stufft.io (Donald Stufft)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 07:52:05 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
	without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <538C64ED.5090508@python.org>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
 <F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>
 <538C64ED.5090508@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>

A better solution still would be to use the purge API so that editing a page
purges the cached copy of the page and the update is available to everyone
immediately. This is what PyPI does to allow Fastly to cache things for 1 day
but still have near instant availability of new package uploads and the like.

I just figured i?d mention the kludge since it?s better than trying to wait :)

On Jun 2, 2014, at 7:50 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> On 02.06.2014 12:48, Donald Stufft wrote:
>> It?s kind of a kludge, but just add a parameter to the URL, like ?foo=12332131 the full URL is
>> used as part of the cache key.
> 
> Thanks, this does work, but it would still be better to have
> a domain which can be used for testing the edits immediately and
> without having to hand edit each page URL (and remember to bump
> the foo value for each edit cycle), something like www.int.python.org or
> www-nocache.python.org.
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:55 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult to tell whether edits are
>>> correct or not, since it takes ages for the caches to receive the updates from the Django
>>> CMS.
>>> 
>>> Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the backend system without going
>>> through Fastly ?
>>> 
>>> Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director Python Software Foundation http://www.python.org/psf/ 
>>> ________________________________________________ Infrastructure mailing list 
>>> Infrastructure at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure 
>>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/donald%40stufft.io
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C
>> BCE9 3372 DCFA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________________________ Infrastructure mailing list 
>> Infrastructure at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/mal%40egenix.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/


-----------------
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

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From mal at python.org  Mon Jun  2 13:59:29 2014
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:59:29 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
 without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>	<F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>	<538C64ED.5090508@python.org>
 <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>
Message-ID: <538C6721.2000506@python.org>

On 02.06.2014 13:52, Donald Stufft wrote:
> A better solution still would be to use the purge API so that editing a page purges the cached
> copy of the page and the update is available to everyone immediately. This is what PyPI does to
> allow Fastly to cache things for 1 day but still have near instant availability of new package
> uploads and the like.

Well, of course :-) I just figure that it's easier to simply bypass
Fastly than to implement the full cache invalidation logic.

Note: Even more better would be to have a preview button in the CMS
admin interface for the site. At the moment, we're doing live edits
on a production with no means to even undo changes... not exactly
state of the art CMS.

> I just figured i?d mention the kludge since it?s better than trying to wait :)

Thanks for the trick. It does help indeed :-)

> On Jun 2, 2014, at 7:50 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 02.06.2014 12:48, Donald Stufft wrote:
>>> It?s kind of a kludge, but just add a parameter to the URL, like ?foo=12332131 the full URL
>>> is used as part of the cache key.
>> 
>> Thanks, this does work, but it would still be better to have a domain which can be used for
>> testing the edits immediately and without having to hand edit each page URL (and remember to
>> bump the foo value for each edit cycle), something like www.int.python.org or 
>> www-nocache.python.org.
>> 
>>> On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:55 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult to tell whether edits
>>>> are correct or not, since it takes ages for the caches to receive the updates from the
>>>> Django CMS.
>>>> 
>>>> Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the backend system without
>>>> going through Fastly ?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director Python Software Foundation
>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/ ________________________________________________
>>>> Infrastructure mailing list Infrastructure at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure Unsubscribe:
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/donald%40stufft.io
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F
>>> 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________________ Infrastructure mailing list 
>>> Infrastructure at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
>>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/mal%40egenix.com
>>> 
>> 
>> -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director Python Software Foundation http://www.python.org/psf/
> 
> 
> ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C
> BCE9 3372 DCFA
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list 
> pydotorg-www at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/

From donald at stufft.io  Mon Jun  2 14:01:08 2014
From: donald at stufft.io (Donald Stufft)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 08:01:08 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
	without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <538C6721.2000506@python.org>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>	<F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>	<538C64ED.5090508@python.org>
 <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>
 <538C6721.2000506@python.org>
Message-ID: <53508D3C-F2C4-4207-AB62-94D1D2AE2A90@stufft.io>

Oh another handy thing, anyone can purge a single URL from the Fastly cache, it
doesn?t require authentication. 

curl -X PURGE https://www.python.org/whatever/

On Jun 2, 2014, at 7:59 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> On 02.06.2014 13:52, Donald Stufft wrote:
>> A better solution still would be to use the purge API so that editing a page purges the cached
>> copy of the page and the update is available to everyone immediately. This is what PyPI does to
>> allow Fastly to cache things for 1 day but still have near instant availability of new package
>> uploads and the like.
> 
> Well, of course :-) I just figure that it's easier to simply bypass
> Fastly than to implement the full cache invalidation logic.
> 
> Note: Even more better would be to have a preview button in the CMS
> admin interface for the site. At the moment, we're doing live edits
> on a production with no means to even undo changes... not exactly
> state of the art CMS.
> 
>> I just figured i?d mention the kludge since it?s better than trying to wait :)
> 
> Thanks for the trick. It does help indeed :-)
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2014, at 7:50 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 02.06.2014 12:48, Donald Stufft wrote:
>>>> It?s kind of a kludge, but just add a parameter to the URL, like ?foo=12332131 the full URL
>>>> is used as part of the cache key.
>>> 
>>> Thanks, this does work, but it would still be better to have a domain which can be used for
>>> testing the edits immediately and without having to hand edit each page URL (and remember to
>>> bump the foo value for each edit cycle), something like www.int.python.org or 
>>> www-nocache.python.org.
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:55 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> When editing pages on the python.org website, it is very difficult to tell whether edits
>>>>> are correct or not, since it takes ages for the caches to receive the updates from the
>>>>> Django CMS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is there a way, perhaps a special URL, to directly access the backend system without
>>>>> going through Fastly ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director Python Software Foundation
>>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/ ________________________________________________
>>>>> Infrastructure mailing list Infrastructure at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure Unsubscribe:
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/donald%40stufft.io
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F
>>>> 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________________________ Infrastructure mailing list 
>>>> Infrastructure at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/infrastructure/mal%40egenix.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director Python Software Foundation http://www.python.org/psf/
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C
>> BCE9 3372 DCFA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list 
>> pydotorg-www at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/


-----------------
Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Mon Jun  2 07:32:38 2014
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (=?utf-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien_DESBRI=C3=88RES?=)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 07:32:38 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
	default permissions
In-Reply-To: <20140601223139.41197738@limelight.wooz.org> (Barry Warsaw's
 message of "Sun, 1 Jun 2014 22:31:39 -0400")
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
 <CAPkN8x+bJUiHzMFhfHPRGiJWJF5q19j9ymN1NavFd_SBWtABvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <201406012053.45555.paul@boddie.org.uk>
 <CAPkN8xJMSJxxzdyesE7pfnG5v7hDDWaz-2c0asMYpBDJapwmiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140601223139.41197738@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <87r437nafd.fsf@unicorn.home>

Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> writes:

> On Jun 02, 2014, at 12:39 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>
>>You need to count non-reverted edits before and after the certain date.
>>That's all.  And am curious about Mailman - it is clear that for w.p.o there
>>is no stats yet.
>
> I suppose it's possible to get some stats out of the Mailman wiki, but all I
> have are anecdotal.
>
>>Didn't know Mailman chose proprietary software for the wiki.
>
> That's why we've been trying to switch to Moin for so long.  Paul has done
> outstanding work in converting the data to Moin - we just need a VM to deploy
> it.
>
> -Barry

Maybe you could create account from IRC.

Discussing with people is a nice way to know people and offer them a
chance to join the "wiki team"

Thanks for Python!

-- 
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
Run Free - Run GNU.org

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jun  2 15:01:33 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 15:01:33 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
 <20140531234859.268f229f@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <538C75AD.4030100@egenix.com>

On 01.06.2014 05:48, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On May 31, 2014, at 10:49 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
>> I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does
>> get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and
>> new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write
>> to this mailing list to be added to the group.
> 
> TBH, we've been doing this on the Mailman wiki for years now.  Of course, we
> don't have as high a contributor rate as the Python wiki, and I wish I didn't
> have to take that step, but it *has* reduced the spam rate to nearly zero.
> I'm sure there's been a cost in drive-by contributions, but we do get
> occasional requests for write permissions and it's trivial to add folks to the
> "editors" group.

Thanks for the experience report. I guess I'll rename the group
to EditorsGroup today, that's a better fit than NewUsersGroup.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 02 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 30 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mal at egenix.com  Tue Jun  3 13:05:13 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:05:13 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <538DABE9.8090107@egenix.com>

On 31.05.2014 22:49, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> in recent weeks, the Python Wiki has seen an increasing amount of
> spam and vandalism:
> 
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/RecentChanges?max_days=60
> 
> Since the textchas we've been using apparently no longer serve their
> intended purposes, I've now pulled the plug and disabled editing
> permissions for new users:
> 
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/FrontPage (see "Editing pages")
> 
> I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does
> get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and
> new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write
> to this mailing list to be added to the group.

FYI: I've renamed the group page to EditorsGroup. That's a better
fit for what we intend to use it for.

If people show a good track record they can then be moved on
to the TrustedEditorsGroup, which removes the need to enter
textchas.

> I'm sorry for having to take this step, but the level of spam
> and (more importantly) vandalism we've been getting is too high
> to keep the wiki as open as it used to be.
> 
> Please regard the above step as emergency action. I'm more than
> open to discussing alternative approaches to the situation, since
> I don't like this step myself.
> 
> PS: I've only applied the new configuration to the Python wiki.
> We may also have to take this step for the Jython wiki.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 03 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 29 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Jun  3 14:06:26 2014
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 22:06:26 +1000
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <538DABE9.8090107@egenix.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>
	<538DABE9.8090107@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrr1h1acviNxJdt_RMABm5SKeJf3dHgRw5wCcQUqf7byw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 9:05 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> FYI: I've renamed the group page to EditorsGroup. That's a better
> fit for what we intend to use it for.
>
> If people show a good track record they can then be moved on
> to the TrustedEditorsGroup, which removes the need to enter
> textchas.

I hope this works out well. It'll reduce the drive-by contributions
(no matter how good you are at empowering people who ask, the very
fact that they have to ask is a turn-off), but all that does is back
down the main boast of a wiki - most web sites have a LOT more hoops
to jump through before random readers can edit.

If this does reduce spam significantly, it might be possible to
eliminate textchas altogether; just put people straight into
TrustedEditorsGroup, and depend on the spammers being uninterested in
actually waiting for promotion (and probably being obvious anyway). As
we've seen, the determined spammers aren't put off by them for long.

Good luck!

ChrisA

From ericye16 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 17:04:06 2014
From: ericye16 at gmail.com (Eric Ye)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:04:06 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Request to edit wiki - UsingPickle
Message-ID: <CAA4+nNTypY8TRhV8ph3gizcVTfcgcUhm-XDdL70oEp=0njKvEQ@mail.gmail.com>

The UsingPickle page (https://wiki.python.org/moin/UsingPickle) describes
using cPickles for speedup, which does not work in py3k. Could I edit this
page to reflect this? My username is EricYe
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From mal at egenix.com  Tue Jun  3 15:08:00 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:08:00 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrr1h1acviNxJdt_RMABm5SKeJf3dHgRw5wCcQUqf7byw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>	<538DABE9.8090107@egenix.com>
 <CAPTjJmrr1h1acviNxJdt_RMABm5SKeJf3dHgRw5wCcQUqf7byw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <538DC8B0.8020108@egenix.com>

On 03.06.2014 14:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 9:05 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>> FYI: I've renamed the group page to EditorsGroup. That's a better
>> fit for what we intend to use it for.
>>
>> If people show a good track record they can then be moved on
>> to the TrustedEditorsGroup, which removes the need to enter
>> textchas.
> 
> I hope this works out well. It'll reduce the drive-by contributions
> (no matter how good you are at empowering people who ask, the very
> fact that they have to ask is a turn-off), but all that does is back
> down the main boast of a wiki - most web sites have a LOT more hoops
> to jump through before random readers can edit.

Looking at the changelog of the wiki, most people who edit
pages on the wiki are regular editors.

> If this does reduce spam significantly, it might be possible to
> eliminate textchas altogether; just put people straight into
> TrustedEditorsGroup, and depend on the spammers being uninterested in
> actually waiting for promotion (and probably being obvious anyway). As
> we've seen, the determined spammers aren't put off by them for long.

Yep. I think we should have a policy to add people who we know directly
to the TrustedEditorsGroup. Makes life a tad easier for them.

We might even proactively add them to that list by looking through
the recent changes log:

https://wiki.python.org/moin/RecentChanges

Hmm, I'll do that now...

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 03 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 29 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mal at egenix.com  Tue Jun  3 15:39:17 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:39:17 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to
 default permissions
In-Reply-To: <538DC8B0.8020108@egenix.com>
References: <538A4076.9000105@egenix.com>	<538DABE9.8090107@egenix.com>	<CAPTjJmrr1h1acviNxJdt_RMABm5SKeJf3dHgRw5wCcQUqf7byw@mail.gmail.com>
 <538DC8B0.8020108@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <538DD005.6000200@egenix.com>

On 03.06.2014 15:08, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> On 03.06.2014 14:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 9:05 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>> FYI: I've renamed the group page to EditorsGroup. That's a better
>>> fit for what we intend to use it for.
>>>
>>> If people show a good track record they can then be moved on
>>> to the TrustedEditorsGroup, which removes the need to enter
>>> textchas.
>>
>> I hope this works out well. It'll reduce the drive-by contributions
>> (no matter how good you are at empowering people who ask, the very
>> fact that they have to ask is a turn-off), but all that does is back
>> down the main boast of a wiki - most web sites have a LOT more hoops
>> to jump through before random readers can edit.
> 
> Looking at the changelog of the wiki, most people who edit
> pages on the wiki are regular editors.
> 
>> If this does reduce spam significantly, it might be possible to
>> eliminate textchas altogether; just put people straight into
>> TrustedEditorsGroup, and depend on the spammers being uninterested in
>> actually waiting for promotion (and probably being obvious anyway). As
>> we've seen, the determined spammers aren't put off by them for long.
> 
> Yep. I think we should have a policy to add people who we know directly
> to the TrustedEditorsGroup. Makes life a tad easier for them.
> 
> We might even proactively add them to that list by looking through
> the recent changes log:
> 
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/RecentChanges
> 
> Hmm, I'll do that now...

Done.

https://wiki.python.org/moin/EditorsGroup
https://wiki.python.org/moin/TrustedEditorsGroup

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 03 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 29 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mal at egenix.com  Tue Jun  3 19:31:21 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 19:31:21 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Locking wiki pages for Jython
In-Reply-To: <9C473106-3599-47C1-8F21-0E951D1B3E6A@yahoo.com>
References: <9C473106-3599-47C1-8F21-0E951D1B3E6A@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <538E0669.608@egenix.com>

On 30.05.2014 00:44, Adam wrote:
> There are some prominent pages such as the front page and DocumentationAndEducation which are getting hit by spam often but not other edits. Is it possible to lock some pages for more restrictive editing, as on Wikipedia? And does anyone object if we do so for some key pages? People finding spam instead of the front page is a particularly bad one I think.

Hi Adam,

should I enable the same logic as I've done on the python.org
wiki ?

The process involves managing two user groups:

* EditorsGroup - users who may edit pages, but get asked textchas

* TrustedUserGroups - users who may edit pages, but don't get bothered
  with textchas

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 03 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 29 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mal at egenix.com  Wed Jun  4 11:38:00 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 11:38:00 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Request to edit wiki - UsingPickle
In-Reply-To: <CAA4+nNTypY8TRhV8ph3gizcVTfcgcUhm-XDdL70oEp=0njKvEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA4+nNTypY8TRhV8ph3gizcVTfcgcUhm-XDdL70oEp=0njKvEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <538EE8F8.1050809@egenix.com>

On 02.06.2014 17:04, Eric Ye wrote:
> The UsingPickle page (https://wiki.python.org/moin/UsingPickle) describes
> using cPickles for speedup, which does not work in py3k. Could I edit this
> page to reflect this? My username is EricYe

I've added you as editor, so you should be able to work on that page
now.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 04 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 28 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 17:57:17 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 18:57:17 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
 without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
 <F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>
 <538C64ED.5090508@python.org> <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+VXsacqBC59vb9RfxQAhP+pnperwEEANq18oXRSEWtsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:

> A better solution still would be to use the purge API so that editing a
> page
> purges the cached copy of the page and the update is available to everyone
> immediately. This is what PyPI does to allow Fastly to cache things for 1
> day
> but still have near instant availability of new package uploads and the
> like.
>
> I just figured i?d mention the kludge since it?s better than trying to
> wait :)


Is there a tracking issue for cache invalidation on edit?
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From techtonik at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 17:59:27 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 18:59:27 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Access to www.python.org
 without going through the cache
In-Reply-To: <538C6721.2000506@python.org>
References: <538C3BE7.3000206@python.org>
 <F97DFA3A-0081-48C0-89C8-AFB4286B9B2E@stufft.io>
 <538C64ED.5090508@python.org> <CAFE6703-D1B6-408F-9C25-4A3E10D79A5D@stufft.io>
 <538C6721.2000506@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+kt5Z2CZ3bdOk1Z-QKG-4ORegfZWfC9FZp3xza8JL0Zg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:59 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

>
> Note: Even more better would be to have a preview button in the CMS
> admin interface for the site. At the moment, we're doing live edits
> on a production with no means to even undo changes... not exactly
> state of the art CMS.


Reinventing the wheel is fun, right.

Is it more convenient to render content from version control and edit it
there?
-- 
anatoly t.
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From carl at personnelware.com  Sun Jun  8 18:58:22 2014
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 11:58:22 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] job preview
Message-ID: <CADmzSSjQYXhhOiBg0p5vGi8zO4EkSOv-UGxBeA59vqUdWr1bAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:59 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:59 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Note: Even more better would be to have a preview button in the CMS
>> admin interface for the site. At the moment, we're doing live edits
>> on a production with no means to even undo changes... not exactly
>> state of the art CMS.
>
>
> Reinventing the wheel is fun, right.
>
> Is it more convenient to render content from version control and edit it
> there?
>


isn't this effectively a preview?

 https://www.python.org/newjobs/144/review/

kinda on topic,  can we get a link back to the admin page?

I use this all over my video processing:
<a href="{% url admin:main_raw_file_change raw_file.id
%}">{{raw_file.filename}}

wrap it in {% if user.is_staff %} or whatever gives someone access to the
admin.


-- 
Carl K
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From techtonik at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 20:15:45 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 21:15:45 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] No password security in new site
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJ4CyJwY9YYZm_nMM2LObm36w7ZnGBBa4f3+340CVNd8w@mail.gmail.com>

There is no password generator for python.org account and no checking if
password is secure enough. Is that Django? Why there is still no link to
site source?
-- 
anatoly t.
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From charles.law at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 01:29:36 2014
From: charles.law at gmail.com (Charles Law)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 16:29:36 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] access to edit PythonImplementations Page
Message-ID: <CAGBJ4zjLiO4vJEkmdbM9gzbWV6taR8+ca0+tgdkiGdaiavBLXA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
  My username is claw, and I am requesting write access to edit the
PythonImplementations page (
https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonImplementations).  I would like to
update/add the popular projects from this list:
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html.
Thanks,
Charles
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From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jun  9 12:49:42 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 12:49:42 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] access to edit PythonImplementations Page
In-Reply-To: <CAGBJ4zjLiO4vJEkmdbM9gzbWV6taR8+ca0+tgdkiGdaiavBLXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGBJ4zjLiO4vJEkmdbM9gzbWV6taR8+ca0+tgdkiGdaiavBLXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53959146.7030304@egenix.com>

On 08.06.2014 01:29, Charles Law wrote:
> Hello,
>   My username is claw, and I am requesting write access to edit the
> PythonImplementations page (
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonImplementations).  I would like to
> update/add the popular projects from this list:
> http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html.

I've added you to the editors group.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 09 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-05-28: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.1.0 ...     http://egenix.com/go56
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 23 days to go

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mal at python.org  Mon Jun  9 13:02:54 2014
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 13:02:54 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] job preview
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSjQYXhhOiBg0p5vGi8zO4EkSOv-UGxBeA59vqUdWr1bAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSjQYXhhOiBg0p5vGi8zO4EkSOv-UGxBeA59vqUdWr1bAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5395945E.5000408@python.org>

[- cross posts]

On 08.06.2014 18:58, Carl Karsten wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:59 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:59 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Note: Even more better would be to have a preview button in the CMS
>>> admin interface for the site. At the moment, we're doing live edits
>>> on a production with no means to even undo changes... not exactly
>>> state of the art CMS.
>>
>>
>> Reinventing the wheel is fun, right.
>>
>> Is it more convenient to render content from version control and edit it
>> there?
>>
> 
> 
> isn't this effectively a preview?

Well, with preview I meant a way to check the current edit without
actually changing the page (just yet).

>  https://www.python.org/newjobs/144/review/
> 
> kinda on topic,  can we get a link back to the admin page?
> 
> I use this all over my video processing:
> <a href="{% url admin:main_raw_file_change raw_file.id
> %}">{{raw_file.filename}}
> 
> wrap it in {% if user.is_staff %} or whatever gives someone access to the
> admin.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/

From frank at python.org  Tue Jun 10 18:27:58 2014
From: frank at python.org (Frank Wierzbicki)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:27:58 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Dinsdale access for new jython.org website
	contributor
Message-ID: <CADrh4zL0p6XmoGN8=OEGFV_qcAT7w_rAHVjkvskx2amUUDd7GA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm not sure if I have the correct list - if not and someone knows the
list I should post this to, please let me know.

I have a Jython committer that would like to have access to update our
website, which is hosted on dinsdale. You should already have his ssh
key via his committer access. He is listed on
http://hg.python.org/committers.txt as alex.gronholm -- if that isn't
the right pointer let me know what I need to provide.

Thanks!

-Frank

From carl at personnelware.com  Thu Jun 12 04:01:30 2014
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:01:30 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] edit privs for wiki
Message-ID: <CADmzSSibKJz-H_eAaoQJ+a3-U61a7w2HUngUG=QGWntMEy9Ojg@mail.gmail.com>

Can you give robotbill edit rights to
https://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup

I am asking because IRC:

(08:58:16 PM) CarlFK: robotbill: do you have a user name over there? (I can
send the message so you don't have to bother joining the list
(08:58:26 PM) robotbill: i just made one, it?s robotbill

Thanks

-- 
Carl K
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From mal at egenix.com  Thu Jun 12 09:55:10 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:55:10 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] edit privs for wiki
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSibKJz-H_eAaoQJ+a3-U61a7w2HUngUG=QGWntMEy9Ojg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSibKJz-H_eAaoQJ+a3-U61a7w2HUngUG=QGWntMEy9Ojg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53995CDE.20401@egenix.com>

On 12.06.2014 04:01, Carl Karsten wrote:
> Can you give robotbill edit rights to
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup
> 
> I am asking because IRC:
> 
> (08:58:16 PM) CarlFK: robotbill: do you have a user name over there? (I can
> send the message so you don't have to bother joining the list
> (08:58:26 PM) robotbill: i just made one, it?s robotbill

Added.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 12 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-09: Released eGenix pyOpenSSL 0.13.3 ...  http://egenix.com/go57
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 20 days to go
2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ...           39 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From klein at bodenseo.com  Sun Jun 15 08:06:52 2014
From: klein at bodenseo.com (Bernd Klein)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:06:52 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Account: berndklein
Message-ID: <539D37FC.9020209@bodenseo.com>

Hi

My name is Bernd Klein, owner of Bodenseo and a Python trainer.
I would like to edit my entries under
"Python Training", "Python Events" but the pages are immutable now.
I would be great, if I were allowed again to edit my entries.

Thank you very much for your help and all the work.

Best wishes,

Bernd


-- 
=================================
Dipl.-Inf. Bernd Klein
Bodenseo
Tel.: +49/7731/203510-10
Pomeziastr. 9, D-78224 Singen
http://www.bodenseo.com
EU VAT: DE-211240622

From mal at egenix.com  Sun Jun 15 21:28:24 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 21:28:24 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Account: berndklein
In-Reply-To: <539D37FC.9020209@bodenseo.com>
References: <539D37FC.9020209@bodenseo.com>
Message-ID: <539DF3D8.10703@egenix.com>

Added. Thanks.

On 15.06.2014 08:06, Bernd Klein wrote:
> Hi
> 
> My name is Bernd Klein, owner of Bodenseo and a Python trainer.
> I would like to edit my entries under
> "Python Training", "Python Events" but the pages are immutable now.
> I would be great, if I were allowed again to edit my entries.
> 
> Thank you very much for your help and all the work.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Bernd
> 
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From vinay.not.nice at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 15:56:17 2014
From: vinay.not.nice at gmail.com (Vinay Dahiya)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 19:26:17 +0530
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Kindly add me to EditorsGroup of Ncr-Python.in and
 Ncr-Python.in/meetupsummary pages
Message-ID: <CADC3N4q2PAmXrnK+T23byXnn0a-oUU6auH1Fso=AWfTbwtf2Mg@mail.gmail.com>

My username is escape for http://pypi.python.org and i use the same to
login in to http://wiki.python.org

My name currently is pygoku which i changed from VinayDahiya.
My last edit was from name VinayDahiya

-- 
pygoku
(Vinay Dahiya)
http://vinaydahiya.com

From mal at egenix.com  Fri Jun 20 17:52:57 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:52:57 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Kindly add me to EditorsGroup of Ncr-Python.in
 and Ncr-Python.in/meetupsummary pages
In-Reply-To: <CADC3N4q2PAmXrnK+T23byXnn0a-oUU6auH1Fso=AWfTbwtf2Mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADC3N4q2PAmXrnK+T23byXnn0a-oUU6auH1Fso=AWfTbwtf2Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53A458D9.9060105@egenix.com>

On 20.06.2014 15:56, Vinay Dahiya wrote:
> My username is escape for http://pypi.python.org and i use the same to
> login in to http://wiki.python.org
> 
> My name currently is pygoku which i changed from VinayDahiya.
> My last edit was from name VinayDahiya

I added "escape" as user name. Thanks.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 20 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go58
2014-06-09: Released eGenix pyOpenSSL 0.13.3 ...  http://egenix.com/go57
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                 12 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From alexander at riccio.com  Sat Jun 21 09:15:08 2014
From: alexander at riccio.com (Alexander G. Riccio)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 03:15:08 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Schools using Python request to edit
Message-ID: <CAN3N+zmZxAzLFv4Pq15Er8qmsWyOnx5mBC=v5O4TUmE1euLK=g@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to add New York University Polytechnic School of Engineering (
soon to be NYU engineering ) to this list. Python* is used in CS1114
"Introduction to Procedural Problem Solving"/"Intro to Programming &
Problem Solving", the introductory programming course for majors in CS,
CompE, EE/CS, Urban Sustainability, Physics & Mathematics, and a very few
EEs who are lucky enough to avoid MATLAB.

*Sadly Python 2.7 is taught, and the instructor often teaches with a 2.6
interpreter open.

username is `ariccio`.

Sincerely,
Alexander Riccio
--
"Change the world or go home."
about.me/ariccio

<http://about.me/ariccio>
If left to my own devices, I will build more.
?
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From drezabek94 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 23 02:24:13 2014
From: drezabek94 at gmail.com (Doug Rezabek)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:24:13 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki Edit - Distribution Utilities
Message-ID: <CAO-kcubeE2yNyaYi0K5AmE8-DDv4BzM2DFzV_yEufRCQyMaa6g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My account name is "DougRezabek", and I would like to edit the page
[[DistributionUtilities]] or Distribution Utilities. The information on it
about the following projects on that page are outdated and could be updated
(dates, versions, links): cx_Freeze, py2exe, and py2app. (cx_Freeze is
outdated by 8 years, and py2exe has a Python 3 version released 2014-05.
py2app has a new version too, and its link along with cx_Freeze should be
updated)

I saw on the front page to email this address if I want to edit pages on
the Python Wiki.

Thanks,
Doug Rezabek
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From za at python.or.id  Mon Jun 23 11:20:19 2014
From: za at python.or.id (Zaki Akhmad)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:20:19 +0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki.python.org MoinMoinExtensions
Message-ID: <CAGrappaV853E-nG-wE1XoxhAwfUVuBsvKZ6FXkGAgMavbZK_cw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am thinking to build Indonesian Python wiki.
May I know what are MoinMoin Extensions used in wiki.python.org?

Regards,

-- 
Zaki Akhmad
PlanPin | Planet Python Indonesia
http://planet.python.or.id

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jun 23 21:31:53 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:31:53 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki Edit - Distribution Utilities
In-Reply-To: <CAO-kcubeE2yNyaYi0K5AmE8-DDv4BzM2DFzV_yEufRCQyMaa6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO-kcubeE2yNyaYi0K5AmE8-DDv4BzM2DFzV_yEufRCQyMaa6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53A880A9.60006@egenix.com>

Added. Thanks.

On 23.06.2014 02:24, Doug Rezabek wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> My account name is "DougRezabek", and I would like to edit the page
> [[DistributionUtilities]] or Distribution Utilities. The information on it
> about the following projects on that page are outdated and could be updated
> (dates, versions, links): cx_Freeze, py2exe, and py2app. (cx_Freeze is
> outdated by 8 years, and py2exe has a Python 3 version released 2014-05.
> py2app has a new version too, and its link along with cx_Freeze should be
> updated)
> 
> I saw on the front page to email this address if I want to edit pages on
> the Python Wiki.
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug Rezabek
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 23 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go58
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                  9 days to go
2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ...           28 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jun 23 21:41:58 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:41:58 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki.python.org MoinMoinExtensions
In-Reply-To: <CAGrappaV853E-nG-wE1XoxhAwfUVuBsvKZ6FXkGAgMavbZK_cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrappaV853E-nG-wE1XoxhAwfUVuBsvKZ6FXkGAgMavbZK_cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53A88306.9020202@egenix.com>

Hello Zaki,

On 23.06.2014 11:20, Zaki Akhmad wrote:> Hello,
>
> I am thinking to build Indonesian Python wiki.
> May I know what are MoinMoin Extensions used in wiki.python.org?

We are using a stock installation of MoinMoin. The only additions are
a custom openid support add-on and a custom theme.

One note regarding setup of the wiki: you should carefully review
the actions that are enabled per default and explicitly exclude
the ones that your users won't need. This reduces the risk of
vulnerabilities such as the one we faced in 2013:

https://wiki.python.org/moin/WikiAttack2013

More recently we also found that we had to make it a little
harder to get edit access to the wiki due to excessive spam.

People who want edit access have to email this list to get it.
This has proven to be very effective so far...

Regards,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 23 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go58
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                  9 days to go
2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ...           28 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/



From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jun 23 23:29:31 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 23:29:31 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Schools using Python request to edit
In-Reply-To: <CAN3N+zmZxAzLFv4Pq15Er8qmsWyOnx5mBC=v5O4TUmE1euLK=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN3N+zmZxAzLFv4Pq15Er8qmsWyOnx5mBC=v5O4TUmE1euLK=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53A89C3B.8030308@egenix.com>

Added. Thanks.

On 21.06.2014 09:15, <Alexander G. Riccio> wrote:
> I'd like to add New York University Polytechnic School of Engineering (
> soon to be NYU engineering ) to this list. Python* is used in CS1114
> "Introduction to Procedural Problem Solving"/"Intro to Programming &
> Problem Solving", the introductory programming course for majors in CS,
> CompE, EE/CS, Urban Sustainability, Physics & Mathematics, and a very few
> EEs who are lucky enough to avoid MATLAB.
> 
> *Sadly Python 2.7 is taught, and the instructor often teaches with a 2.6
> interpreter open.
> 
> username is `ariccio`.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Alexander Riccio
> --
> "Change the world or go home."
> about.me/ariccio
> 
> <http://about.me/ariccio>
> If left to my own devices, I will build more.
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Jun 24 09:21:18 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:21:18 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki.python.org MoinMoinExtensions
In-Reply-To: <53A88306.9020202@egenix.com>
References: <CAGrappaV853E-nG-wE1XoxhAwfUVuBsvKZ6FXkGAgMavbZK_cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53A88306.9020202@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xK0Og0HVGngLZ0d+_T0VFiJqsFc6pDrJ+sEnCmGpmtjVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:41 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> More recently we also found that we had to make it a little
> harder to get edit access to the wiki due to excessive spam.
>
> People who want edit access have to email this list to get it.
> This has proven to be very effective so far...

Closing wiki from all edits at all should be the most effective.
Do you have an effectiveness formula?

eff = valid_edits/spam_edits (per month)?

From mal at egenix.com  Tue Jun 24 10:21:34 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:21:34 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki.python.org MoinMoinExtensions
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xK0Og0HVGngLZ0d+_T0VFiJqsFc6pDrJ+sEnCmGpmtjVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrappaV853E-nG-wE1XoxhAwfUVuBsvKZ6FXkGAgMavbZK_cw@mail.gmail.com>	<53A88306.9020202@egenix.com>
 <CAPkN8xK0Og0HVGngLZ0d+_T0VFiJqsFc6pDrJ+sEnCmGpmtjVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53A9350E.6070407@egenix.com>

On 24.06.2014 09:21, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:41 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>> More recently we also found that we had to make it a little
>> harder to get edit access to the wiki due to excessive spam.
>>
>> People who want edit access have to email this list to get it.
>> This has proven to be very effective so far...
> 
> Closing wiki from all edits at all should be the most effective.
> Do you have an effectiveness formula?
> 
> eff = valid_edits/spam_edits (per month)?

Anatoly: you can derive this yourself from the recent changes
page at https://wiki.python.org/moin/RecentChanges?max_days=60

At the moment, we're at 100% effective edits. Before the change
we had something like 5-10% effective edits.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 24 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go58
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                  8 days to go
2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ...           27 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Jun 24 11:53:48 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:53:48 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki.python.org MoinMoinExtensions
In-Reply-To: <53A9350E.6070407@egenix.com>
References: <CAGrappaV853E-nG-wE1XoxhAwfUVuBsvKZ6FXkGAgMavbZK_cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53A88306.9020202@egenix.com>
 <CAPkN8xK0Og0HVGngLZ0d+_T0VFiJqsFc6pDrJ+sEnCmGpmtjVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53A9350E.6070407@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJ7UdK9KykNuUqVL0b_k+1XeopzmKGOV6dSw7mz8N3Jeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:21 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> On 24.06.2014 09:21, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:41 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>> More recently we also found that we had to make it a little
>>> harder to get edit access to the wiki due to excessive spam.
>>>
>>> People who want edit access have to email this list to get it.
>>> This has proven to be very effective so far...
>>
>> Closing wiki from all edits at all should be the most effective.
>> Do you have an effectiveness formula?
>>
>> eff = valid_edits/spam_edits (per month)?
>
> Anatoly: you can derive this yourself from the recent changes
> page at https://wiki.python.org/moin/RecentChanges?max_days=60
>
> At the moment, we're at 100% effective edits. Before the change
> we had something like 5-10% effective edits.

The formula I mentioned is not right to get 100%. You formula is:

    eff2 = valid_edits/total_edits

But we need to get stats about active users to see that new rule
is not an impediment. We can either count active users before and
after:

    active_users = registered_users - users_who_made_valid_edits

And compare that to the same stats from the previous period.

From techtonik at gmail.com  Wed Jun 25 06:16:47 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 07:16:47 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] robots.txt make web archive inaccessible
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+z=sbvsVTE4xX-h_0pB+Gj-deYmujkfc8WU_uUMxA5MA@mail.gmail.com>

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://docs.python.org/release/2.2.3/whatsnew/node5.html

-- 
anatoly t.
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From mal at egenix.com  Wed Jun 25 10:13:50 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:13:50 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] robots.txt make web archive inaccessible
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8x+z=sbvsVTE4xX-h_0pB+Gj-deYmujkfc8WU_uUMxA5MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8x+z=sbvsVTE4xX-h_0pB+Gj-deYmujkfc8WU_uUMxA5MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53AA84BE.6070106@egenix.com>

On 25.06.2014 06:16, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://docs.python.org/release/2.2.3/whatsnew/node5.html

Can you propose an alternative robots.txt file ?

"""
# Prevent development and old documentation from showing up in search results.
User-agent: *
# Disallow: /dev
Disallow: /release
"""

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 25 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go58
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                  7 days to go
2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ...           26 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Wed Jun 25 11:42:18 2014
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:42:18 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] robots.txt make web archive inaccessible
In-Reply-To: <53AA84BE.6070106@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8x+z=sbvsVTE4xX-h_0pB+Gj-deYmujkfc8WU_uUMxA5MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <53AA84BE.6070106@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xLE48R85xpBkXtfEe9YeH2Nk54T2B5dRitPgiRg=ONApw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:13 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> On 25.06.2014 06:16, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://docs.python.org/release/2.2.3/whatsnew/node5.html
>
> Can you propose an alternative robots.txt file ?
>
> """
> # Prevent development and old documentation from showing up in search results.
> User-agent: *
> # Disallow: /dev
> Disallow: /release
> """

Try this:
"""
User-agent: ia_archiver
Disallow:

User-agent: *
Disallow: /release
"""

From fabiofz at gmail.com  Thu Jun 26 00:55:07 2014
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:55:07 -0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Please add me to editors group
Message-ID: <CANXBEFqe-kD=V1588NkyZUAsBqmRNYJVZ6Sok_wSkodWVFDzNg@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to edit:

https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments

to update the last update date of PyDev

My username is: fabiofz

Thanks,

Fabio
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From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Jun 26 23:11:13 2014
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 23:11:13 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Please add me to editors group
In-Reply-To: <CANXBEFqe-kD=V1588NkyZUAsBqmRNYJVZ6Sok_wSkodWVFDzNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANXBEFqe-kD=V1588NkyZUAsBqmRNYJVZ6Sok_wSkodWVFDzNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201406262311.14298.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Thursday 26. June 2014 00.55.07 Fabio Zadrozny wrote:
> I'd like to edit:
> 
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
> 
> to update the last update date of PyDev
> 
> My username is: fabiofz

Added! Happy editing!

Paul

From za at python.or.id  Mon Jun 30 06:38:41 2014
From: za at python.or.id (Zaki Akhmad)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:38:41 +0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Request for Wiki Write Access
Message-ID: <CAGrappYy3fh4LqabDic9jy+1McOoHqq36QYY45Bs4+qwm19YMg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello wiki python maintainer,

Since I am planning to build wiki python id (it's still a long way to
go), I think the best way to start is to take a look at how wiki
python works.
So, I'd like to ask for write access at wiki python.

My account is: ZakiAkhmad

Regards,

-- 
Zaki Akhmad
PlanPin | Planet Python Indonesia
http://planet.python.or.id

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Jun 30 15:10:35 2014
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:10:35 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Request for Wiki Write Access
In-Reply-To: <CAGrappYy3fh4LqabDic9jy+1McOoHqq36QYY45Bs4+qwm19YMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrappYy3fh4LqabDic9jy+1McOoHqq36QYY45Bs4+qwm19YMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53B161CB.6080600@egenix.com>

On 30.06.2014 06:38, Zaki Akhmad wrote:
> Hello wiki python maintainer,
> 
> Since I am planning to build wiki python id (it's still a long way to
> go), I think the best way to start is to take a look at how wiki
> python works.
> So, I'd like to ask for write access at wiki python.
> 
> My account is: ZakiAkhmad

Added. Happy editing :-)

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 30 2014)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go58
2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                  2 days to go
2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ...           21 days to go

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/