[pypy-dev] bootstrapping issues
hpk at trillke.net
Sat Jan 11 21:40:11 CET 2003
Welcome to the Minimal Python list,
It appears (to me) that Armin and Christian are both
busy for the weekend so i start some bootstrapping.
First five paragraphs of background.
The idea of actually starting to do "Minimal Python"
arose from a thread in python-de (2003q1 first post).
There soon was the idea of doing a sprint with the goal
of releasing first bits.
Armin, Christian and me realized early that opening up
the discussion (instead of in private mails) is a very good
idea as there is lots of experience and code out there.
Nevertheless, i'd like the attendants of the planned
sprint to decide which route they want to follow
coding-wise eventually. We will propose some dates
by the end of the month, btw.
I think that - if in doubt - we follow the lead
from CPython e.g. regarding coding style, language
definition etc. Every deviation should be justified
by the goals. I don't think we should follow a PEP
process soon, though.
During January i want to setup accounts and a
cvs-repository. The involved policies will be liberal.
ok. enough organizational things for now.
Bootstrapping will be a hot topic for Minimal Python
itself. We probably first want to use the CPython
development environemnt to get going. We probably
want to base it on the python-2.3 cvs tree.
There is the idea of not using make/configure/automake
but a simple understandable debuggable (read: python based)
build environment. IOW words the number of dependencies
for building Minimal Python should also be minimal.
For avoiding the need of C-coded system modules
there is interest to code a generalization of
the "struct" module which allows *calling* functions at
the C-level. This general C-"Extension" will be
system-dependent. The gateway code between the "machine"
and python probably needs to be coded in assembler:
You can't "construct" a C-function call within
ANSI-C. Both Microsoft and Apple have proprietary
solutions for Java. (these insights courtesy of
Jens-Uwe Mager and Christian Tismer who endorse
When this succeeds we can start to code e.g. a
POSIX-layer and wrap C-libaries (at runtime)
So much for now from my side. I am sure that
as so many people inherit the good culture from
c.l.py and python-dev we will have good discussions.
Please note that there are some subscribers (e.g.
Jens-Uwe Mager) who are experts but not neccessarily
in core CPython.
I hope/suggest that even naive sounding questions about Python
and its core are welcomed. It certainly helps if more
people understand the internals and the involved issues.
I reserve the right to ask naive questions, myself :-)
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