[pypy-dev] Extended goals (was: needed 18 month plan of what we would do in developing PyPy if we got funding.)

Samuele Pedroni pedronis at bluewin.ch
Thu Sep 11 15:20:25 CEST 2003

At 13:32 11.09.2003 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
>In addition to the goals in plan.txt, I think we need
>to do some more things.
>So far, the draft tells about PyPy, how to develop
>and maintain it, and how it can be extended.
>This is just fine from the view of a PyPy developer.
>The problem is to convince other parties to support
>us. They probably don't have a vital interest in
>PyPy for itself, but would like to see goals which
>go towards realy usable applications, which can be
>developed further.
>Therefore, besides the theoretical things which are
>great, I'm trying to add prototypical implementations
>of application-like stuff, as there is for example:
>- creating tiny, specialized code for embedded devices
>- distributed processing and load-balancing
>I think, these goals would be interesting for some
>companies which might participate, and they could
>support us by providing hardware and other support.
>In extent to this, I just realized a few days ago, that
>we have James Tauber in the PyPy list.
>He is working on an operating system in Python, see
>the cleese project at http://www.jtauber.com/cleese .
>In a similar way as we intend to integrate Psyco and
>Stackless in some way, I'd like to extend this to
>Cleese. I'd like to add
>- write a small, prototypical operating system in PyPy
>to the list of application goals.
>Question: Is there any objection to this, or can I continue?

one thing I think we should not forget is that merit of Python success is 
also because it is a good glue language. While PyPy performance change the 
balance of the equation, I think it will still be very important.

I have not thought this trough completely but consider this scenario (I 
think it is related to base functionality we want to provide, but has also 
a distinct "applicative" flavor):

someone has a large C++ codebase and - yes - he knows it is a pain to 
maintain and to add new functionality, PyPy-Python seems cool but what can 
it do for him?

1) well he can rewrite all his code in Python

  bzzt, wrong answer ( :) )

2) well he can embed PyPy in his code, PyPy extension mechanism and 
taylorability make
that easy and the overhead for PyPy to C++ calls very low, some PyPy 
classes can also work as C++ subclasses (<- this two thing is something we 
would have to work on, extending what is already there for CPython and beyond)

he can add new functionality in Python, and write unit tests in Python 
(also for old code),

he can slowly and progressevely refactor his code, and convert old things 
to Python as he
see fit.

this seems more reasonable because the there will always be a working system.


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