[pypy-dev] Re: [Edu-sig] Learn to Program in Ten Years
lac at strakt.com
Thu Dec 30 18:12:46 CET 2004
First attempt to explain to Dethe. Comments? Improvements? I think that explaining
clearly to edu-sig is very important, but I am far from the world's best explainer.
I'd like a better job than what I did here, but am unsure what to change. I think
it is too long, for one thing, but then maybe I am biased.
Happy New Year, Dethe! Thank you for your interest. You write:
>PyPy uses a similar approach to Pyrex, called Psyco, which compiles
>directly to 80x86 machine code (Pyrex compiles to cross-platform C
>code). This allows PyPy to attempt to be faster than C-Python by
>creating compiler optimizations. Not sure what the PyPy story is for
>non-x86 platforms. There is also a project to recreate Python on top
>of Smalltalk, by L. Peter Deutch, which he expects to be faster than
>C-Python (and if anyone can do it, he could).
>Nice to see y'all again. Happy New Year (or Gnu Year?).
I'd like to clarify a few misunderstandings I think you have. Psyco is not a
technique, but rather a specialising compiler available as a Python extension
module. It compiles directly to 386 machine code. PyPy, on the other hand,
currently emits C code. Our previous version emitted Pyrex code. Some people
in Korea are making a version that emits Lisp code. PyPy doesn't use Psyco,
though many ideas are common to both.
What's more there is nothing magic about machine code that makes it automatically
fast -- an inefficiently-coded algorithm in assembler is still a turtle. The
win in using PyPy is not about 'saving the time it takes to have a conversation
with your C compiler', but instead about making such conversations more
productive and useful. The more information you can tell your C compiler about
your data, the better code it is prepared to generate. This is the tradeoff
between flexibility and speed.
When your Python system sees x = a + b it has no clue as to what types a and b are.
They could be anything. This 'being ready to handle everything' has a large performance
penalty. The runtime system has to do be prepared to do a _lot_, so it has
to be fairly intelligent. All this intelligence is in the form of code instructions,
and there are a lot of them that the runtime system has to execute, every time it wants
to do anything at all. On the other hand, at code _reading_ time, the Python
interpreter is purposefully stupid-but-straightforward. It doesn't have much to
do, and so can be relatively quick in not doing it.
A statically-typed compiled langauge works in precisely the other way. When the runtime
system of a statically typed language sees x = a + b, it already knows all about x, a
and b and their types. All the hard work was done in the compiling phase. There is
very little left to worry about -- you might get an overflow exception or something --
but as an oversimplification, all the runtime system of a statically typed system has
to know how to do is how to load and run. That's fast.
So, one way you could speed up Python is to add type declarations, thus simplifying the
life of the runtime system. This proposed solution more than a little drastic for
those of us who like duck typing, signature based polymorphism, and the particular
way coding in Python makes you think and feel.
The PyPy alternative is to make the interpreter even smarter, and a whole lot better
at remembering what it is doing. For instance, when it sees x = a + b
instead of just adding this particular int to this particular int, it could generate
some general purpose code for adding ints to ints. This code could be thus used for
all ints that you wish to add this way. So while the first time is slow, the _next_
time will be a lot faster. And that is where the performance speedup happens --
in code where the same lines get run again, and again, and again. If all you have
is a mainline where each line of code gets executed once, then we won't help you
Psyco is about as far as you can get with this approach and be left with a
module you can import and use with regular python 2.2 or better. See:
http://psyco.sourceforge.net/ PyPy is what you get when you pitch the old
interpreter and write your own. See: http://codespeak.net/pypy/
And we should probably move further disussion to pypy-dev, here:
Thanks for your interest, and thanks for writing,
Laura Creighton (for PyPy)
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