AW: [pypy-dev] AW: pypy-dev Digest, Vol 287, Issue 6

"Jantzen, Günter" Guenter.Jantzen at
Tue Jun 22 13:36:15 CEST 2004

> Anthony Baxter wrote:
> Jantzen, Günter wrote:
> > Holger Krekel wrote:
> > 
> >>All i all, i think that we probably want to checkout joeq
> >>some more.  In particular, we  might want to think about 
> >>trying to generate a QUAD representation of PyPy and reuse 
> >>some of the joeq infrastructure.  We can expect to have less 
> >>integration issues than with the Low-Level-Virtual-Machine 
> >>(LLVM) project which is written in C++ (ever worked with 
> >>C++-libraries and dependencies? funfunfun).
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > C++ is an Industry standard based on C.
> > C++ Libraries can be wrapped by C-Libraries (extern 'C') if 
> you have the source-code at hand.
> > C++ Libraries that are not wrapped can contain native C++ 
> (for example class definitions).  
> > Then they can be called by C++ code only. It is not 
> possible to call 
> > C++ Libraries which are compiled with a different Compiler, because 
> > all C++ Implementations have different naming conventions 
> for methods 
> > and parameters(name mangling).
> > 
> > I don't say LLVM is better for PyPy than joeq. But I think 
> it should 
> > be first considered what
>  > is right and second what is easy to implement.
> Huh? This is completely ass-backwards. Trying to implement it 
> in C++, merely because it's "an industry standard", is about 
> the worst reason in the world. And in your reply you point 
> out that the "industry standard" is a shambles when it comes 
> to dependencies and libraries.
> Consider what works, then worry about what's got some 
> supposed "industry standard" elephant stamp on it. If we 
> worried about "industry standards" we'd be all implementing 
> in ECMAScript, Java, and C#, _not_ Python.

I did not suggest to implement something in C++
I only suggested to search for better reasons to make a decision.
When choosing a library for a backend you will always have integration issues.
It is never a fun to cross language borders. But as long as you wourk with
'industry standards' like Java, C or C++ you have a good chance to solve this problem
one time and to encapsulate this stuff with a thin wrapper.

For this reason it is more important to look from a design perspective.
When choosing a backend, ask yourself if it will support the features which are your needs.

I am not a native speaker, so I don't understand the expression 'ass-backwards'.
Seems not very polite to me.


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