[pypy-dev] Newcommer in pypy, numpy user

David Cournapeau david at ar.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp
Wed Dec 20 03:50:37 CET 2006


Michael Hudson wrote:
> David Cournapeau <david at ar.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp> writes:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>>     I am a recently convert of python, which I started using for my 
>> numerical computing needs (I am a PhD student in signal processing) to 
>> replace matlab.
>>
>>     For those who do not know matlab, it is a big (and expensive) 
>> software which implements a 'language' optimized for linear algebra, and 
>> with time becomes one of the most used software for numerical 
>> computation. In my field of research (signal processing), matlab is 
>> almost a standard (by standard, I mean everybody knows it and uses it). 
>> I think python with numpy/scipy is better in almost any way if you are 
>> ready to invest some time.
>>
>>     Now, concerning pypy. The main idea of numpy is to give an array 
>> class to python, so that most inner loops are not interpreted, but run 
>> in Cpython or through highly optimized fortran libraries. In those 
>> cases, python is fast enough for most cases. But there are some cases 
>> where this paradigm of using linear algebra to speed things up does not 
>> work really well (recursive algorithms); in those case, the loop + 
>> function call cost of python makes any implementation for non toy 
>> problems really slow. Right now, the only choice is to code the thing in 
>> C, with a big loss on the flexibility side.
>>
>>     I was wondering if pypy has some solution/new approaches to this 
>> problem. For example, when using numpy, I would suspect that many 
>> functions calls are 'static', that is always expect the same type of 
>> arguments; also, for simple loop on integers, my understanding is that 
>> JIT compilation has some nice solution to give to have much better 
>> performances (matlab has a JIT compiler to make loop faster for 
>> interpreted code).
>
> It may be that the JIT is good for this sort of code.  It's not yet
> though :-)
I understand that pypy is still in (relative) infancy, but I have to 
confess I am more and more interested in all those concepts of JIT, 
etc... even if I don't know much outside the concept and the big picture.
>
> As far as I'm aware this was something else: teaching PyPy's annotator
> to recognise code that uses Numeric arrays and the code generator how
> to compile this to equivalent code that manipulates arrays at a lower
> level.  This could be seen as an alternative to rewriting your code in
> C.  I'm not sure what the state of this code is, but I don't think
> it's very advanced.
>
I am not familiar with the pypy vocabulary yet, so let me rephrase to be 
sure I understand: the idea is to detect numpy arrays, and instead of 
using C extension for fast computation, it would generate automatically 
code  in the target language (let's say C for C generation) ?

So for example, if a and b are numpy arrays, a python expression b *= a 
would be translated in C by something like for(i = 0; i < b.size; ++i) 
{b[i] *= a[i];} ?

Is anyone working on that ?

cheers,

David



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