[pypy-dev] Roadmap draft

holger krekel holger at merlinux.de
Wed Dec 19 23:34:23 CET 2007

Hi Jacob, Martijn, all, 

thanks for your advises and input! IMHO it makes sense to wait a bit with 
discussing release plans or strategies until after the tasks and their 
interaction are more settled and somewhat commonly agreed.  And until after
we know a bit more on everyone's commitments and availabilities. 

Maybe Carl Friedrich or Armin could kick this off once they 
think it makes sense to discuss release plans or strategies?  

best & happy days to you all! 


> Thanks for the feedback Martijn, some comments below
> onsdagen den 19 december 2007 skrev Martijn Faassen:
> > Carl Friedrich Bolz wrote:
> > > Just to inform you a bit: Several PyPy developers have sat together and
> > > worked on a very rough roadmap for what tasks need to be done to make
> > > PyPy a realistic replacement for CPython. The work is going on here:
> > >
> > > https://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/planning/roadmap/
> > >
> > > We plan to work on this some more in the next days. As soon as it is in
> > > a more finished state we will ask write a mail to pypy-dev again and ask
> > > for general feedback.
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > I subscribed to the mailing list again. I'm very glad that this planning
> > is taking place.
> >
> > Some feedback:
> >
> > If I read it correctly, the list seems more or less to be about an
> > end-result to the process, a more or less "ideal" production release.
> > Not quite idea perhaps -- library support may still be limited, but yet
> > quite a lot of things are in there. That's good for a goal; one should
> > set the sights high, and I'm sure the project is capable of
> > accomplishing all this technically, eventually.
> >
> > I think it's also very important to space out how you get there: have
> > nearer-term goals with releases that aim to be useful.
> > I think some of the most important thinking that still that needs to go
> > into this roadmap is to figure out how to space this out over multiple
> > releases, where you have multiple releases of hopefully increasing
> > usefulness. This way you set up a positive feedback cycle where people
> > test things and hopefully people will be motivated in contributing in
> > useful places (libraries and such, and reporting bugs). At least,
> > waiting until all of this is completed sounds like it would take quite a
> > while as there are many tasks involved.
> The roadmap is part of a multi step process. After we get acceptance from 
> people in the project on where we want to go, the next step is outlining how 
> to get there. I hope that people will conclude that the best way to go about 
> things is to make a series of releases, but we will see. Releases take a lot 
> of effort and there is a balance to strike between producing and releasing.
> > To get to a list of projected releases, you could restrict your
> > ambitions along various dimensions. For instance, you could focus on
> > only supporting one or a limited amount of backends for a first release.
> > Or you could defer erformance optimizations. Alternatively you could
> > restrict the amount of libraries you are going to implement (this is
> > already in the roadmap, but on the other hand the support for a GUI
> > toolkit is in there too). I'm sure other dimensions exist that I can't
> > even think of.
> I think the roadmap is a set of restrictions. To be a viable replacement for 
> CPython, there is a single backend that needs to be supported. We are not 
> focusing on the JVM or .NET in this roadmap and we are not talking about 
> support for other languages. For libraries, I think that is something that is 
> absolutely necessary in order to get traction among Python users. While it 
> would be nice if someone comes along and ports a GUI library, I don't think 
> we can count on that happening. It is in any case a task that belongs near 
> the end of a timeline with releases.
> So, the roadmap reflects our current understanding of what we have to do to 
> have a system that can attain critical mass and become a major Python 
> implementation, hopefully supplanting CPython one day. I am certain we will 
> have reason to revise the roadmap along the way, dropping some tasks and 
> introducing others. Unfortunately, there are a large number of things that 
> have to get done, but that is to a large extent the consequences of Python 
> being a fairly old and well established programming language.
> Jacob
> _______________________________________________
> pypy-dev at codespeak.net
> http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev

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