[pypy-dev] Roadmap draft

holger krekel holger at merlinux.de
Thu Dec 20 17:16:22 CET 2007

Hi CF, 

On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 15:21 +0100, Carl Friedrich Bolz wrote:
> 2007/12/20, holger krekel <holger at merlinux.de>:
> > Hi Carl Friedrich, all,
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 19:57 +0100, Carl Friedrich Bolz wrote:
> > > Just to inform you a bit: Several PyPy developers have sat together and
> > > worked on a very rough roadmap for what tasks need to be done to make
> > > PyPy a realistic replacement for CPython. The work is going on here:
> > >
> > > https://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/planning/roadmap/
> > >
> > > We plan to work on this some more in the next days. As soon as it is in
> > > a more finished state we will ask write a mail to pypy-dev again and ask
> > > for general feedback.
> >
> > As i mentioned to you on chat, i see many of the files in the
> > above directory as goals, coarse- or fine-grained and sometimes
> > depending on other goals.  They can be used to construct roadmaps out
> > of it which then should also include release plans etc - as it stands the
> > discussion can easily get confused there.  IOW, I'd like to
> > get to more clarity both for internal, project and outside
> > communication purposes.
> Could you be a bit more specific what your point is, e.g. which
> specific files you mean?  I agree that not everything is clear yet, but
> I don't think that things are completely confusing.

I referred to the notion of a "roadmap" in that it usually contains 
releases, milestones and concrete plans for such.   Currently, 
i think we are in the phase of (individually) collecting goals/tasks. 
Next is to complete, settle and somewhat agree on them if you ask me. 

Mentioning too much the "roadmap" word at this point IMO can contribute
to raise the discussion to a wrong (and possibly confusing) level. 
i didn't mean to imply "completely confusing", btw. 

> To restate: I think a task is a concrete thing to do, including steps
> etc. while a goal is a largeish collection of tasks.  

I am trying to talk about the concrete files/contents and their foreseeable 
future - not about possible definitions of "goal" and "tasks". 

There I see files following the "status/todo/expected outcome" structure
to contain relatively concrete tasks in their "todo" sections, but
representing goals itself, e.g. "pervastive testing" or "oo bytecode compiler".  
Others, like the current "have pypy provide the CPython API for existing 
C-Extensions" also sound like goals to me, not concrete steps or tasks. 

Anyway, maybe we can at this point just agree to disagree on the importance 
of having a categorization of "goals" and "tasks"? 

> Right now I think
> we should collect goals and tasks that we think we can manage in the
> mid-term.  Exactly which of the tasks should be made into releases is
> an orthogonal issue, IMO. 

fine with me. 

best & cheers, 


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