[Python-3000] Conservative Defaults (was: Re: Support for PEP 3131)

[Baptiste Carvello]

BJörn Lindqvist a écrit :
>> Those most eager for unicode identifiers are afraid that people
>> (particularly beginning students) won't be able to use local-script
>> identifiers, unless it is the default.  My feeling is that the teacher
>> (or the person who pointed them to python) can change the default on a
>> per-install basis, since it can be a one-time change.
> 
> What if the person discovers Python by him/herself?
> 
Don't people read the (funky:-) manual any more? More seriously, they will
probably read some tutorials in that case. Also, the error message could
advertise the feature, as in:

SyntaxError: if you really want to use unicode identifiers, call python with -U

Also, think of it from the other side: the person who discovers python by
him/herself and reads no manuals won't know that you should avoid unicode
identifiers in code you later want to distribute, or that there can be security
issues.

>> On the other hand, if "anything from *any* script" becomes the
>> default, even on a single widespread distribution, then the community
>> starts to splinter in a new way.  It starts to separate between people
>> who distribute source code (generally ASCII) and people who are
>> effectively distributing binaries (not for human end-users to read).
> 
> That is FUD.
> 
definitely not. Big open source projects will of course do the right thing, but
the smaller ones? I doubt it. Think of all those little apps on the cheeseshop
which get updated every other year. Do you really think all of them run a test
suite?

>>> ... Java, ... don't hear constant complaints
>> They aren't actually a problem because they aren't used; they aren't
>> used because almost no one knows about them.  Python would presumably
>> advertise the feature, and see more use.  (We shouldn't add it at all
>> *unless* we expect much more usage than unicode IDs have seen in other
>> programming languages.)
> 
> Every Swedish book I've read about Java (only 2) mentioned that feature.
> 
cool, then everybody reading Swedish tutorials on python will also learn about
the feature, even if it s not the default!

>> The same one-step-at-a-time reasoning applies to unicode identifers.
>> Allowing IDs in your native language (or others that you explicitly
>> approve) is probably a good step.  Allowing IDs in *any* language by
>> default is probably going too far.
> 
> If you set different native languages won't you get the exact same
> problems that codepages caused and that unicode was invented to solve?
> 
nope, because you do not reuse the same coding for different characters in
different languages. You just turn languages (scripts, in fact) on or off.

Cheers,
BC