[Python-3000] Support for PEP 3131

Steve Howell showell30 at yahoo.com
Sat May 26 16:32:56 CEST 2007

--- "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> <rant>
> By the way, this is an example that shows that the
> recent injection of
> the word "parochial" is truly pernicious, because
> it's attached to the
> wrong set of arguments.

Sorry.  I'm one of the folks who has propagated that
term, and I didn't mean for the use of the term to
have any pernicious side effect.  I have the used word
in a context that basically has me labelling myself as
"parochial," so I obviously I don't the word to carry
any baggage.

> Please note, it is those pockets of Unicode adoption
> that are truly
> parochial, not the ASCII advocates!  Those pockets
> can be early and
> deep adopters precisely because they are small,
> homogeneous groups,
> unconcerned with the world outside.  

That's how I see it too.  And again, I don't put any
baggage with the term "parochial."  I accept, and
embrace, the possibility that you could have thriving
small communities of Python somewhere on the other
side of the globe from me, and even though they're
writing code with identifiers that I can't read, they
may indirectly benefit me to the extent that they
eventually contribute back to the community.  Or maybe
they never benefit me at all, but the world is a
better place.

> ASCII advocates
> are obviously
> self-interested ("IAGNI, so *you* can't have it, it
> would cost me
> extra effort"), but they are *not* parochial: they
> *know* they're
> going to exchange code with other cultures, they
> *welcome* that
> exchange, and *they do not want it hindered for
> "frivolous" reasons*.

That describes me perfectly.  I am self-interested to
the extent that my employers just pay me to write
working Python code, so I want the simplicity of ASCII
only.  My whole team is parochial in regards to the
content of the code itself, even though culturally we
are very diverse (American-born programmers are the

In the open source world, I have in fact exchanged
code with other cultures, I have welcomed the
exchange, and I wouldn't want it hindered for
frivolous reasons.  

> [...]

> True, "frivolous" is a parochial evaluation of the
> cultural exchange
> that use of Unicode identifiers can foster, but that
> notion of
> "parochial" is on a different level.  IMHO that
> "cultural exchange"
> level is highly relevant to the decision to
> implement Unicode
> identifiers in some way, but it's the "code
> exchange" level that is
> most relevant to the pace of introduction.  

Well said.

> And that
> has to consider
> the balance between faster growth within
> Unicode-using groups, versus
> the facilitation of opportunistic[1] exchange among
> groups using the
> (admittedly imperfect) lingua franca of ASCII.
> </rant>


____________________________________________________________________________________Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's 
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 

More information about the Python-3000 mailing list