[Python-3000] pickle, cPickle, and the standard library (was Re: [Python-Dev] inst_persistent_id)

[Jim Fulton]

On Jan 25, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> On Jan 24, 2008 8:59 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008, Jim Fulton wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know what that means.  I don't know that Jython or  
>>> IronPython
>>> need to support cPickle. Honestly, I'd be happy to see a *much*
>>> smaller standard library and, IMO, the standard library doesn't need
>>> to include pickle or cPickle.
>>
>> While it's easy enough to work around, my company would be unhappy if
>> pickle were removed, and so would my previous company.
>
> I don't know why Jim is saying this (*),

I think the standard library is bloated.  I'd much prefer to see a  
leaner standard library that really provides features that are close  
to the language and provide a packaging system that make it easy to  
install other packages as needed.  I think setuptools is a pretty good  
start at this.

> but it's not going to happen.
> pickle is here to stay. cPickle is a different story; 99% of programs
> shouldn't be bothered with the choice between the two.

IMO, the programs the people who care about cPickle don't want to  
sacrifice speed to get the same flexibility as pickle. Similarly, I  
don't want to lose pickles flexibility in the interest of unification.

> (*) I can only speculate that it's because Jim, whose ZODB is probably
> pickle's most intensive user,

Maybe, but I'm not sure.

> would like to "own" it

Not particularly.

> and would like to
> evolve it much faster than the nearly frozen version in the standard
> library.

Fortunately, that's not the case anymore. (Except maybe for settling  
the inst_persistent_id optimization.)

> I would like to suggest that Jim can evolve pickle without
> removing it from the standard library -- he could just include a fork
> in the Zope package.

Of course. No need to suggest it. :)

As I said earlier, I have a general desire to see a smaller standard  
library.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton
Zope Corporation