From brett at python.org Sat Jul 19 02:18:24 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:18:24 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Test Message-ID: Just realized I never tested that emails were even getting through to people (my first email has not shown up in the archives). Anyone seeing emails from the list? -Brett From eric at trueblade.com Sat Jul 19 02:20:40 2008 From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:20:40 -0400 Subject: [python-committers] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48813358.8000905@trueblade.com> Brett Cannon wrote: > Just realized I never tested that emails were even getting through to > people (my first email has not shown up in the archives). Anyone > seeing emails from the list? > > -Brett > I've gotten nothing from the list. Eric. From brett at python.org Sat Jul 19 00:16:28 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:16:28 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] How to handle subscriptions? Message-ID: Might as well use the list to discuss this. =) The question for subscribing people is to either do it en-mass or as we come across people's emails. Eric suggested we set a deadline to get emails (he said this Tuesday), and after that we add people individually. That idea is fine with me, although I might be out of town this weekend and I leave for Pittsburgh for a conference Tuesday and will be in the air most of the time. That means it might fall on the shoulders of the rest of you to find all the emails. =) The other option is we set up a form through the Google spreadsheet, have people enter their username and email, and then we validate it by eye. That way we don't have to enter all the data ourselves. Granted, someone could be an ass and enter false emails, but I don't know if we are that worried about it. -Brett From eric at trueblade.com Sat Jul 19 03:27:03 2008 From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:27:03 -0400 Subject: [python-committers] How to handle subscriptions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488142E7.1040107@trueblade.com> Brett Cannon wrote: > Might as well use the list to discuss this. =) > > The question for subscribing people is to either do it en-mass or as > we come across people's emails. > > Eric suggested we set a deadline to get emails (he said this Tuesday), > and after that we add people individually. That idea is fine with me, > although I might be out of town this weekend and I leave for > Pittsburgh for a conference Tuesday and will be in the air most of the > time. That means it might fall on the shoulders of the rest of you to > find all the emails. =) > > The other option is we set up a form through the Google spreadsheet, > have people enter their username and email, and then we validate it by > eye. That way we don't have to enter all the data ourselves. Granted, > someone could be an ass and enter false emails, but I don't know if we > are that worried about it. I don't feel strongly one way or the other. My schedule is that I'm around until next Saturday, the 26th, then away from a computer until Aug. 13. That will be the longest I've been out of touch in a decade! I'm not too worried about people putting in bogus info if we use a world-writable spreadsheet. Everyone can read the archives, and if they post inappropriately we can remove them. For many of the usernames in the existing committers spreadsheet, can't we match them up to usernames (and therefore addresses) in the bugtracker? Can we get at that info? Would that be a helpful way to prime the pump? Eric. From guido at python.org Sat Jul 19 05:59:34 2008 From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:59:34 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] How to handle subscriptions? In-Reply-To: <488142E7.1040107@trueblade.com> References: <488142E7.1040107@trueblade.com> Message-ID: I was hoping there would be a canonical list of committers and their emails, and if that list exists, I would strongly recommend to add everyone on that list as a member. (If they really want off they can unsub themselves.) It seems there isn't though, so we'll need some other way of collecting emails. A spreadsheet + form is probably better than asking for free-form email... Fake entries are easy to remove after the fact. I would also allow each committer as many aliases as they need, so they can post from any alias they happen to be logged in as. Most aliases could be members without receiving mail. I'd use this for guido at python.org, gvanrossum at gmail.com, and perhaps even guido at google.com, but I'd only receive the mail as guido at python.org. --Guido On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > Brett Cannon wrote: >> >> Might as well use the list to discuss this. =) >> >> The question for subscribing people is to either do it en-mass or as >> we come across people's emails. >> >> Eric suggested we set a deadline to get emails (he said this Tuesday), >> and after that we add people individually. That idea is fine with me, >> although I might be out of town this weekend and I leave for >> Pittsburgh for a conference Tuesday and will be in the air most of the >> time. That means it might fall on the shoulders of the rest of you to >> find all the emails. =) >> >> The other option is we set up a form through the Google spreadsheet, >> have people enter their username and email, and then we validate it by >> eye. That way we don't have to enter all the data ourselves. Granted, >> someone could be an ass and enter false emails, but I don't know if we >> are that worried about it. > > I don't feel strongly one way or the other. My schedule is that I'm around > until next Saturday, the 26th, then away from a computer until Aug. 13. > That will be the longest I've been out of touch in a decade! > > I'm not too worried about people putting in bogus info if we use a > world-writable spreadsheet. Everyone can read the archives, and if they > post inappropriately we can remove them. > > For many of the usernames in the existing committers spreadsheet, can't we > match them up to usernames (and therefore addresses) in the bugtracker? Can > we get at that info? Would that be a helpful way to prime the pump? > > Eric. > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From georg at python.org Sat Jul 19 18:40:47 2008 From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:40:47 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] How to handle subscriptions? In-Reply-To: References: <488142E7.1040107@trueblade.com> Message-ID: <4882190F.8060001@python.org> I've now harvested all addresses from people who wrote to python-dev in the time I read it and put them into the spreadsheet. Only a few are missing. We can do a mass invite with this; and also state that commit access requires having a subscription to that list, if I understood you correctly, Guido. Georg Guido van Rossum schrieb: > I was hoping there would be a canonical list of committers and their > emails, and if that list exists, I would strongly recommend to add > everyone on that list as a member. (If they really want off they can > unsub themselves.) It seems there isn't though, so we'll need some > other way of collecting emails. A spreadsheet + form is probably > better than asking for free-form email... Fake entries are easy to > remove after the fact. > > I would also allow each committer as many aliases as they need, so > they can post from any alias they happen to be logged in as. Most > aliases could be members without receiving mail. I'd use this for > guido at python.org, gvanrossum at gmail.com, and perhaps even > guido at google.com, but I'd only receive the mail as guido at python.org. > > --Guido From brett at python.org Mon Jul 28 23:27:38 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:27:38 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Subscribing people to python-committers Message-ID: Georg, do you still have that list of people you scraped together? If so, we should probably load it into Mailman and get this mailing list going. -Brett From georg at python.org Tue Jul 29 00:07:29 2008 From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:07:29 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Subscribing people to python-committers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488E4321.5020109@python.org> Brett Cannon schrieb: > Georg, do you still have that list of people you scraped together? If > so, we should probably load it into Mailman and get this mailing list > going. They're in the spreadsheet you created. If you want to do the invite, it should be a simple copy'n'paste :) cheers, Georg From brett at python.org Tue Jul 29 00:41:23 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:41:23 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Subscribing people to python-committers In-Reply-To: <488E4321.5020109@python.org> References: <488E4321.5020109@python.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: > Brett Cannon schrieb: >> >> Georg, do you still have that list of people you scraped together? If >> so, we should probably load it into Mailman and get this mailing list >> going. > > They're in the spreadsheet you created. If you want to do the invite, > it should be a simple copy'n'paste :) > Well, I probably have to export to CSV and strip it out that way, but Python to the rescue for that. =) OK, I will see if I can do this right now. Then we can ask on python-dev to get the email addresses of the people we are missing. -Brett From brett at python.org Tue Jul 29 03:33:02 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:33:02 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Possible welcome message Message-ID: I extracted the emails Georg plugged into the spreadsheet, but before I send it I wanted to pass the welcome message sent in the email to everyone. ---- Welcome to python-committers! This publicly-archived but invite-only mailing list is for people who have commit privileges for Python to discuss issues that do not concern the general public. Example of topics to go to this list are release dates, whether a specific patch is a release blocker, etc. Essentially anything where public input serves no purpose. But this list does not replace python-dev! Most things do benefit from public input and thus, by default, most discussions should be done on that list. Things such as new features, etc., should happen on python-dev (or even python-ideas before that) so that the community can contribute. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From georg at python.org Tue Jul 29 10:15:20 2008 From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:15:20 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Possible welcome message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488ED198.4090308@python.org> Brett Cannon schrieb: > I extracted the emails Georg plugged into the spreadsheet, but before I > send it I wanted to pass the welcome message sent in the email to everyone. > > ---- > > > Welcome to python-committers! This publicly-archived but invite-only > mailing list is for people who have commit privileges for Python to > discuss issues that do not concern the general public. Example of topics > to go to this list are release dates, whether a specific patch is a > release blocker, etc. Essentially anything where public input serves no > purpose. > > But this list does not replace python-dev! Most things do benefit from > public input and thus, by default, most discussions should be done on > that list. Things such as new features, etc., should happen on > python-dev (or even python-ideas before that) so that the community can > contribute. It should be mentioned that every committed should (shall? :) be subscribed. Georg From eric at trueblade.com Tue Jul 29 16:26:43 2008 From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [python-committers] Possible welcome message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19069.79.131.88.198.1217341603.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com> I have extremely limited email access here in Greece, so I won't be online much. You can certainly proceed without hearing back from me. But I think this looks good. Eric. > I extracted the emails Georg plugged into the spreadsheet, but before I > send > it I wanted to pass the welcome message sent in the email to everyone. > > ---- > > > Welcome to python-committers! This publicly-archived but invite-only > mailing > list is for people who have commit privileges for Python to discuss issues > that do not concern the general public. Example of topics to go to this > list > are release dates, whether a specific patch is a release blocker, etc. > Essentially anything where public input serves no purpose. > > But this list does not replace python-dev! Most things do benefit from > public input and thus, by default, most discussions should be done on that > list. Things such as new features, etc., should happen on python-dev (or > even python-ideas before that) so that the community can contribute. > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > From brett at python.org Tue Jul 29 18:50:04 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Possible welcome message In-Reply-To: <19069.79.131.88.198.1217341603.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com> References: <19069.79.131.88.198.1217341603.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Eric Smith wrote: > I have extremely limited email access here in Greece, so I won't be online > much. You can certainly proceed without hearing back from me. > > But I think this looks good. > Thanks, Eric. Enjoy Greece! -Brett > > Eric. > > > I extracted the emails Georg plugged into the spreadsheet, but before I > > send > > it I wanted to pass the welcome message sent in the email to everyone. > > > > ---- > > > > > > Welcome to python-committers! This publicly-archived but invite-only > > mailing > > list is for people who have commit privileges for Python to discuss > issues > > that do not concern the general public. Example of topics to go to this > > list > > are release dates, whether a specific patch is a release blocker, etc. > > Essentially anything where public input serves no purpose. > > > > But this list does not replace python-dev! Most things do benefit from > > public input and thus, by default, most discussions should be done on > that > > list. Things such as new features, etc., should happen on python-dev (or > > even python-ideas before that) so that the community can contribute. > > _______________________________________________ > > python-committers mailing list > > python-committers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brett at python.org Tue Jul 29 18:50:59 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:50:59 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Possible welcome message In-Reply-To: <488ED198.4090308@python.org> References: <488ED198.4090308@python.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: > Brett Cannon schrieb: > >> I extracted the emails Georg plugged into the spreadsheet, but before I >> send it I wanted to pass the welcome message sent in the email to everyone. >> >> ---- >> >> >> Welcome to python-committers! This publicly-archived but invite-only >> mailing list is for people who have commit privileges for Python to discuss >> issues that do not concern the general public. Example of topics to go to >> this list are release dates, whether a specific patch is a release blocker, >> etc. Essentially anything where public input serves no purpose. >> >> But this list does not replace python-dev! Most things do benefit from >> public input and thus, by default, most discussions should be done on that >> list. Things such as new features, etc., should happen on python-dev (or >> even python-ideas before that) so that the community can contribute. >> > > It should be mentioned that every committed should (shall? :) be > subscribed. > OK, I will add a line and then do the mass subscription. -Brett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From musiccomposition at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 14:54:57 2008 From: musiccomposition at gmail.com (Benjamin Peterson) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:54:57 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] Why? Message-ID: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, Sorry if this is a naive question, but I was just wondering what the purpose of this mailing list would be. I don't think there are often python related topics that are only applicable to committers. What sort of things will we discuss here? Thanks -- Cheers, Benjamin Peterson "There's no place like 127.0.0.1." From mal at egenix.com Wed Jul 30 15:41:10 2008 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:41:10 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Why? In-Reply-To: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48906F76.3000808@egenix.com> On 2008-07-30 14:54, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > Hi everyone, > Sorry if this is a naive question, but I was just wondering what the > purpose of this mailing list would be. I don't think there are often > python related topics that are only applicable to committers. What > sort of things will we discuss here? I suppose the list would be useful for notices related to a frozen trunk or other admin notices. Filtering those from python-dev is not very reliable. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jul 30 2008) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ :::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 From brett at python.org Wed Jul 30 19:38:56 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:38:56 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Why? In-Reply-To: <48906F76.3000808@egenix.com> References: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> <48906F76.3000808@egenix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:41 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 2008-07-30 14:54, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> Sorry if this is a naive question, but I was just wondering what the >> purpose of this mailing list would be. I don't think there are often >> python related topics that are only applicable to committers. What >> sort of things will we discuss here? > > I suppose the list would be useful for notices related to > a frozen trunk or other admin notices. Filtering those from > python-dev is not very reliable. > MAL hit it right on the head. Guido's idea was to have a list where you should not have to mentally filter out threads because it has deteriorated into some competition over what color to paint the bikeshed (see the whole unittest method name fiasco for a good example). Because we all ignore various threads on python-dev there is a chance that something important might get missed. This lowers that chance by making sure this list is low-volume and high-quality in terms of what all committers need to be aware of. -Brett From jnoller at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 19:41:46 2008 From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:41:46 -0400 Subject: [python-committers] Why? In-Reply-To: References: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> <48906F76.3000808@egenix.com> Message-ID: <4222a8490807301041x3b6b656dhf31931bdb81295b7@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:41 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> On 2008-07-30 14:54, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> Sorry if this is a naive question, but I was just wondering what the >>> purpose of this mailing list would be. I don't think there are often >>> python related topics that are only applicable to committers. What >>> sort of things will we discuss here? >> >> I suppose the list would be useful for notices related to >> a frozen trunk or other admin notices. Filtering those from >> python-dev is not very reliable. >> > > MAL hit it right on the head. Guido's idea was to have a list where > you should not have to mentally filter out threads because it has > deteriorated into some competition over what color to paint the > bikeshed (see the whole unittest method name fiasco for a good > example). Because we all ignore various threads on python-dev there is > a chance that something important might get missed. This lowers that > chance by making sure this list is low-volume and high-quality in > terms of what all committers need to be aware of. > > -Brett This might also be a good place to request code-reviews for sensitive commits From brett at python.org Wed Jul 30 19:45:39 2008 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:45:39 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Why? In-Reply-To: <4222a8490807301041x3b6b656dhf31931bdb81295b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> <48906F76.3000808@egenix.com> <4222a8490807301041x3b6b656dhf31931bdb81295b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:41 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>> On 2008-07-30 14:54, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> Sorry if this is a naive question, but I was just wondering what the >>>> purpose of this mailing list would be. I don't think there are often >>>> python related topics that are only applicable to committers. What >>>> sort of things will we discuss here? >>> >>> I suppose the list would be useful for notices related to >>> a frozen trunk or other admin notices. Filtering those from >>> python-dev is not very reliable. >>> >> >> MAL hit it right on the head. Guido's idea was to have a list where >> you should not have to mentally filter out threads because it has >> deteriorated into some competition over what color to paint the >> bikeshed (see the whole unittest method name fiasco for a good >> example). Because we all ignore various threads on python-dev there is >> a chance that something important might get missed. This lowers that >> chance by making sure this list is low-volume and high-quality in >> terms of what all committers need to be aware of. >> >> -Brett > > This might also be a good place to request code-reviews for sensitive commits > [re-sending; mouse didn't make it all the way over to "reply to all" the first time] Possibly, although the archive is public, so this is not exactly secretive. But yes, if you have some code that needs a committer's review (which is practically anything that isn't trivial at this point), this list is probably a good place to make the request. -Brett From ncoghlan at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 16:15:49 2008 From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:15:49 +1000 Subject: [python-committers] Why? In-Reply-To: References: <1afaf6160807300554x32327832md43407b41931d7fa@mail.gmail.com> <48906F76.3000808@egenix.com> <4222a8490807301041x3b6b656dhf31931bdb81295b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4891C915.6090800@gmail.com> Brett Cannon wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:41 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>>> On 2008-07-30 14:54, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> Sorry if this is a naive question, but I was just wondering what the >>>>> purpose of this mailing list would be. I don't think there are often >>>>> python related topics that are only applicable to committers. What >>>>> sort of things will we discuss here? >>>> I suppose the list would be useful for notices related to >>>> a frozen trunk or other admin notices. Filtering those from >>>> python-dev is not very reliable. >>>> >>> MAL hit it right on the head. Guido's idea was to have a list where >>> you should not have to mentally filter out threads because it has >>> deteriorated into some competition over what color to paint the >>> bikeshed (see the whole unittest method name fiasco for a good >>> example). Because we all ignore various threads on python-dev there is >>> a chance that something important might get missed. This lowers that >>> chance by making sure this list is low-volume and high-quality in >>> terms of what all committers need to be aware of. >>> >>> -Brett >> This might also be a good place to request code-reviews for sensitive commits >> > > [re-sending; mouse didn't make it all the way over to "reply to all" > the first time] > > Possibly, although the archive is public, so this is not exactly > secretive. But yes, if you have some code that needs a committer's > review (which is practically anything that isn't trivial at this > point), this list is probably a good place to make the request. I took Jesse's 'sensitive' there to be more in the sense of "folks this patch is really, really important, but also runs the risk of breaking things if there is something I haven't thought of". For example, if this list had existed before the 2nd beta, I might have pinged it for some additional review of the changes to the implementation of __hash__ inheritance, simply because the handling of slot inheritance in typeobject.c is a fairly complex piece of code (I'm still not completely certain why some of the things I tried when fixing the hash inheritance bug didn't work the way I expected, which tells me I don't understand that code as well as I would like). Obviously, requesting reviews directly from this is something to be used with restraint (since too much traffic would drown out the main announcements to do with the tree being frozen and unfrozen), but developers that can't exercise appropriate restraint probably aren't going to keep their commit privileges for too long ;) Making the announcement of the tree status on this list should probably be added to the release PEP though. Cheers, Nick. -- New computer, signature returning soon :)