[python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

[Nick Coghlan]

On 30 November 2013 16:58, Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> as I already mentioned in a message on a previous thread, I'm -1 on banning him.
> Last time this issue came up I contacted him and we discussed about
> these problems several times.  For a while things got better and hhis
> behavior got a bit better and his posts less frequent, but lately he
> got "active" again.
>
> If you try to get in his shoes, you can see how his behavior kind of
> makes sense -- even thought results are far from ideal:
>   1) he wants to improve Python and fix problems that affect or might
> affect him -- this is completely understandable and reasonable;

Yes, but passion is not enough, one also has to be willing *and able*
to collaborate with others.

>   2) however, he read the CLA and disagrees with/doesn't understand a
> few things -- this also is somewhat reasonable and shared by a few
> other persons; the fact   that most of the others don't care / trust
> it and just sign it without even reading doesn't mean that he's wrong;

PSF board members have sat down with at PyCon to explain it in person.
If he is still uncomfortable it, and is not willing to pay a lawyer to
explain it to him, that's his problem, not ours.

>   3) without a signed CLA he is unable to contribute code (even if
> he's otherwise willing and able to do so), and this places him in a
> very frustrating position where he his not able to fix things himself
> and has to rely on others;

That's his fault, not ours. He can choose not to sign the CLA. He
can't use that as an excuse to be disrespectful to others.

>   4) in an attempt to catch the attention of others he relies on
> passive-aggressiveness -- likely because he thinks this is the most
> effective tool he has available;

So he should seek professional help for his obsession then. This is
harassment level behaviour - he refuses to contribute productively for
reasons he cannot articulate to anyone else, and chooses to be
actively destructive instead.

At that point, we need to stop enabling him and just say "enough is enough".

> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Ned Deily <nad at acm.org> wrote:
>>
>> [...]  I personally don't see his behavior, in and of itself, as all that harmful.  I *do* see the negative reaction it provokes as being harmful. [...]
>>
>
> That said, I think a ban will make him even more frustrated, and that
> might lead to two outcomes:
>   1) he will eventually gave up (and make some people happy);
>   2) he will likely still face problems with Python that he wants to
> fix and he will have to find other ways to report them, since the
> regular ways have been precluded to him, thus perpetuating the
> aforementioned vicious circle.
>
> I personally don't have problems talking with him, and, if we decided
> not to ban him, I'm available to spend more time talking with him and
> being a mediator.  I'm not very active on the mailing lists, but I
> don't mind taking actions on the bug tracker (so feel free to add me
> to the issues he reports -- especially if he causes problems).

If you and Guido are willing to act as a buffer between him and
everyone else, I am fine with flipping his moderation bit rather than
banning him entirely. Valuing Anatoly's experience of the community
over the experience of everyone else, on the other hand, *needs to
stop*.

> I also agree that if people don't want to discuss with him on the MLs
> they should just ignore his messages, and especially they should avoid
> replying with "attacks" against him or his behavior, rather than
> "attacks" against his proposals.  I've already seen a few of his
> threads that got ignored for a few weeks before he pinged the thread
> only to be ignored again, so this method seems somewhat effective.

That's avoiding the problem rather than addressing it though, as it
gives the impression we're in the habit of ignoring threads in
general, when we're really just in the habit of ignoring Anatoly.

> (And FTR I don't think I'm wasting my time -- if anything I'm
> sharpening my already nearly-limitless patience ;).

It took about three years of actively trying to help him for Anatoly
to exhaust mine :P

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia