From larry at hastings.org  Sun Jul  5 19:20:07 2015
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 10:20:07 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0b3 is now available
Message-ID: <55996747.2030203@hastings.org>



On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5 release 
team, I'm relieved to announce the availability of Python 3.5.0b3.

Python 3.5 has now entered "feature freeze".  By default new features 
may no longer be added to Python 3.5.

This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for production 
settings.

An important reminder for Windows users about Python 3.5.0b3: if 
installing Python 3.5.0b2 as a non-privileged user, you may need to 
escalate to administrator privileges to install an update to your C 
runtime libraries.


You can find Python 3.5.0b2 here:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350b3/

Happy hacking,


//arry/
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From zachary.ware+pydev at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 21:20:15 2015
From: zachary.ware+pydev at gmail.com (Zachary Ware)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:20:15 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] New buildbots active
Message-ID: <CAKJDb-NbYkheE09OFsM=nybejdkew0EEhEoWrG6L81p=nODipQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Just wanted to let you know in case you hadn't seen them that there
are a couple of new buildbots in service: one that builds on Windows
in Release configuration [1] and one that builds the documentation and
runs a couple of style checks on it [2].  Both are currently in the
'unstable' set, but I expect both of them to graduate to 'stable'
status soon after an audit of the stability of the whole fleet.

[1] http://buildbot.python.org/all/buildslaves/ware-win81-release
[2] http://buildbot.python.org/all/buildslaves/ware-gentoo

If anyone has suggestions for improvements to the Docs bot, I'm all
ears.  Eventually, I'd like to add a doctest step, but there's a lot
of work that needs to go into fixing the doctests before I do that.

Regards,
-- 
Zach

P.S.: for those receiving this message on python-committers, you may
notice that it is also cross-posted to python-buildbots, a list that
was recently set up for discussion of our buildbot fleet, mostly
between buildslave and buildmaster operators.  If you're interested,
subscription is open [3] and the list is mirrored on Gmane [4].

[3] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-buildbots
[4] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel.buildbots

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 04:29:52 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:29:52 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
	tracker & core mailing lists?
Message-ID: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
for technical discussions at
https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html

I think their guidelines align pretty well with the way we try to run
the CPython issue tracker and the core mailing lists, but we don't
currently spell out those expectations for newcomers (or potential
newcomers) as clearly as they have.

Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Jul 15 04:37:38 2015
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:37:38 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A5C772.1020203@stoneleaf.us>

On 07/14/2015 07:29 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?

Sounds good to me.

--
~Ethan~

From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 04:48:56 2015
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 22:48:56 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7h-xZf5zKAp0LorsxGOCYknK4=S696as+HkSJnBrbvFXugYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:29 PM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?
>

The language of the FreeBSD Code of Conduct is a pretty heavy CYA-style
corporate legalese, but the overall message sounds right.

+1
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From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 10:06:14 2015
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:06:14 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACac1F83FApL5UZVCgwh8xm3_dUsiJVHsQ7cahncWW3GQfjy7Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 July 2015 at 03:29, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?

+1.

I particularly like their point "Try not to take offense where no
offense was intended. Not everyone speaks or writes English fluently.
Not everyone can express themselves clearly. Give people the benefit
of the doubt. Even if the intent was to provoke, do not rise to it."
We should aim to be tolerant and forgiving as well as open and
inclusive.

Paul

From barry at python.org  Wed Jul 15 15:37:53 2015
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:37:53 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150715093753.1241b948@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 15, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

>The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
>for technical discussions at
>https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html

I wouldn't mind something shorter, perhaps a happy middle ground between that
and the PSF CoC?  In any case, +1 though...

>Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
>their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?

Why not put it in a low-numbered informational PEP?

Cheers,
-Barry

From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 15:47:39 2015
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 23:47:39 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <20150715093753.1241b948@anarchist.wooz.org>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150715093753.1241b948@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <CANxH2eTuQOpvLNS3kXxAD_agTj5i2Dr1CJxTdJy+nrwkm4e_ig@mail.gmail.com>

I approve of this. I wonder if we can't radically simplify it?

Don't be awful. If someone says 'hey um that makes me uncomfortable'
perhaps reconsider what you said. Perhaps say "oh oops, sorry". Don't be an
awful person.

Codes of conduct are awesome, but it depresses me that we need to write
down rules of basic human decency.
On 15 Jul 2015 11:38 pm, "Barry Warsaw" <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Jul 15, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
> >for technical discussions at
> >https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
>
> I wouldn't mind something shorter, perhaps a happy middle ground between
> that
> and the PSF CoC?  In any case, +1 though...
>
> >Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> >their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?
>
> Why not put it in a low-numbered informational PEP?
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From antoine at python.org  Wed Jul 15 16:08:52 2015
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:08:52 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A66974.7040208@python.org>


Le 15/07/2015 04:29, Nick Coghlan a ?crit :
> Hi folks,
> 
> The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
> for technical discussions at
> https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html

This looks good, except that the "In Case of Conflict" part doesn't seem
to be really a CoC thing, and their policy there needn't align with ours
(although ours would deserve clarifying too).

Regards

Antoine.

From brett at python.org  Wed Jul 15 19:59:46 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:59:46 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <20150715093753.1241b948@anarchist.wooz.org>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150715093753.1241b948@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7D5vpvrpyb5SAGo6NO7yx+FNQxswfabK-bZjdj0U96og@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 6:38 AM Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Jul 15, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
> >for technical discussions at
> >https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
>
> I wouldn't mind something shorter, perhaps a happy middle ground between
> that
> and the PSF CoC?  In any case, +1 though...
>
> >Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> >their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?
>
> Why not put it in a low-numbered informational PEP?
>
>
+1 on the idea and on making it a PEP that the devguide can reference since
it will essentially be a procedural doc.
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From mal at egenix.com  Wed Jul 15 22:40:15 2015
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 22:40:15 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A6C52F.3040903@egenix.com>

On 15.07.2015 04:29, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
> for technical discussions at
> https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html

Looks like a good start, but as others have mentioned, I think
we ought to simplify this a lot and use it as extension to the
CoC we already have rather than as replacement.

> I think their guidelines align pretty well with the way we try to run
> the CPython issue tracker and the core mailing lists, but we don't
> currently spell out those expectations for newcomers (or potential
> newcomers) as clearly as they have.
> 
> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC Plone/Zope Database Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Jul 16 06:16:18 2015
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:16:18 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
	tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:29:52PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
[...]
> I think their guidelines align pretty well with the way we try to run
> the CPython issue tracker and the core mailing lists, but we don't
> currently spell out those expectations for newcomers (or potential
> newcomers) as clearly as they have.
> 
> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?

Is there an actual social problem you are trying to solve here, or have 
you just run out of things to do? :-)

The PFS has had a CoC for over a year now. I haven't seen any reduction 
in "bad behaviour" (it was so low that it would be hard to go any 
lower), but in my opinion it seems that people are even less inclined to 
express unpopular viewpoints and more inclined to stay silent. I don't 
know if that is due to the CoC. I haven't seen anyone directly threated 
by it for voicing an unpopular opinion, but I know that its at the back 
of my mind whenever I think about posting. If people don't like what I 
have to say, can they use the CoC to threaten me? That makes me 
self-censor all the time, and I don't mean "Am I being a dick?". I mean 
"How unpopular will this opinion be?"

I spent a *long* time thinking about whether or not I should send this 
and go against the multitude of +1s, and I'm not sure that people aren't 
going to hold it against me. (What sort of monster must I be to be 
against a CoC and in favour of trolls and abuse?) I know of other 
forums, not Python related, where what I am saying certainly would be 
held against me for being "disruptive".

To me, a CoC has a definite chilling effect when it comes to voicing 
opinions that go against the majority. It's hard enough to swim against 
the tide of popular opinion even in the absense of formal rules that can 
be used against you. If there was a genuine problem with trolls and 
abuse on the tracker, then I would consider stronger measures than what 
we already have in place (i.e. social disapproval, and the ability to 
close people's account on the tracker). You don't need a CoC to say to 
somebody "There's no call for that, you went to far, you crossed a 
line."



-- 
Steve

From brett at python.org  Thu Jul 16 07:34:15 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 05:34:15 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7QRk8wMqv9C3UbDROAR6mg2bANpuHMjUu5LSYfK=zr_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Three things. One, I won't hold this view against you, Steven, nor should
anyone else. You expressed an opinion politely and it wasn't somehow
prejudiced against a group of people. You should never worry about
expressing an unpopular opinion as long as it's done with respect and not
flat-out evil like being racist or something. The whole point of CoCs is to
make it so people feel welcome to express themselves.

Two, the PSF CoC is not retroactively applied to all things. For instance,
this list does not fall under the CoC (notice no mention in the footer nor
at https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers). So deciding
to apply the PSF CoC to all things related to the development of Python
would require something like a PEP.

And three, we need a CoC. Not to explicitly call anyone out, but in the
past week or so I have heard peoples' ideas called "ridiculous" and been
told to "shut up" on various mailing lists. I have met people at PyCon
numerous times who have viewed at least python-dev as at minimum cold and
possibly hostile to people, and that's simply not the kind of environment I
would like to foster. I honestly think all of us -- including me -- have
been way too tolerant of core devs having bad attitudes and not calling
them out on it, especially when they simply got too passionate and lost
their composure (the magic of email is we can think before we send so
tolerating outbursts of any regularity really shouldn't happen). Part of
this tolerance for bad attitudes has been cultural, but having a CoC would
help to start changing that by making people feel comfortable in standing
up and stating they thought someone had been rude.

Anyway, that's why I support having a CoC that applies to everything
involving Python's development.

-Brett from a tablet

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 21:21 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:29:52PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> [...]
> > I think their guidelines align pretty well with the way we try to run
> > the CPython issue tracker and the core mailing lists, but we don't
> > currently spell out those expectations for newcomers (or potential
> > newcomers) as clearly as they have.
> >
> > Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> > their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?
>
> Is there an actual social problem you are trying to solve here, or have
> you just run out of things to do? :-)
>
> The PFS has had a CoC for over a year now. I haven't seen any reduction
> in "bad behaviour" (it was so low that it would be hard to go any
> lower), but in my opinion it seems that people are even less inclined to
> express unpopular viewpoints and more inclined to stay silent. I don't
> know if that is due to the CoC. I haven't seen anyone directly threated
> by it for voicing an unpopular opinion, but I know that its at the back
> of my mind whenever I think about posting. If people don't like what I
> have to say, can they use the CoC to threaten me? That makes me
> self-censor all the time, and I don't mean "Am I being a dick?". I mean
> "How unpopular will this opinion be?"
>
> I spent a *long* time thinking about whether or not I should send this
> and go against the multitude of +1s, and I'm not sure that people aren't
> going to hold it against me. (What sort of monster must I be to be
> against a CoC and in favour of trolls and abuse?) I know of other
> forums, not Python related, where what I am saying certainly would be
> held against me for being "disruptive".
>
> To me, a CoC has a definite chilling effect when it comes to voicing
> opinions that go against the majority. It's hard enough to swim against
> the tide of popular opinion even in the absense of formal rules that can
> be used against you. If there was a genuine problem with trolls and
> abuse on the tracker, then I would consider stronger measures than what
> we already have in place (i.e. social disapproval, and the ability to
> close people's account on the tracker). You don't need a CoC to say to
> somebody "There's no call for that, you went to far, you crossed a
> line."
>
>
>
> --
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From antoine at python.org  Thu Jul 16 12:28:41 2015
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:28:41 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7QRk8wMqv9C3UbDROAR6mg2bANpuHMjUu5LSYfK=zr_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
 <CAP1=2W7QRk8wMqv9C3UbDROAR6mg2bANpuHMjUu5LSYfK=zr_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A78759.3080708@python.org>


Le 16/07/2015 07:34, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> And three, we need a CoC. Not to explicitly call anyone out, but in the
> past week or so I have heard peoples' ideas called "ridiculous" and been
> told to "shut up" on various mailing lists.

Which mailing-lists? AFAIK, the CoC would be for python-dev and
python-ideas so, if any other MLs are under discussion, it would be good
to know.

> I have met people at PyCon
> numerous times who have viewed at least python-dev as at minimum cold
> and possibly hostile to people,

Each time someone voices such an opinion, it would be nice to get an
example from them, and how they feel the welcome should have been like
instead. Otherwise it will be hard to make any rational progress.
Propagating such opinions could further defeat the purpose
(self-reinforcing opinions, or "memes", abound).

Regards

Antoine.



> and that's simply not the kind of
> environment I would like to foster. I honestly think all of us --
> including me -- have been way too tolerant of core devs having bad
> attitudes and not calling them out on it, especially when they simply
> got too passionate and lost their composure (the magic of email is we
> can think before we send so tolerating outbursts of any regularity
> really shouldn't happen). Part of this tolerance for bad attitudes has
> been cultural, but having a CoC would help to start changing that by
> making people feel comfortable in standing up and stating they thought
> someone had been rude.
> 
> Anyway, that's why I support having a CoC that applies to everything
> involving Python's development.
> 
> -Brett from a tablet

From antoine at python.org  Thu Jul 16 12:38:08 2015
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:38:08 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7QRk8wMqv9C3UbDROAR6mg2bANpuHMjUu5LSYfK=zr_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
 <CAP1=2W7QRk8wMqv9C3UbDROAR6mg2bANpuHMjUu5LSYfK=zr_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A78990.5080703@python.org>


Le 16/07/2015 07:34, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> 
> I have met people at PyCon
> numerous times who have viewed at least python-dev as at minimum cold
> and possibly hostile to people, and that's simply not the kind of
> environment I would like to foster.

For the record, the last time someone said something like that, it was
on the PSF-members ML. When it was questioned by several people, I think
nobody gave any example or fact to back that opinion.

Regards

Antoine.

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:08:27 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 01:08:27 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7eJK80P2yxRZcgdmc-z=0WwF9=o4dX3xWxWaYGyiQbOjA@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 July 2015 at 14:16, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:29:52PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> [...]
>> I think their guidelines align pretty well with the way we try to run
>> the CPython issue tracker and the core mailing lists, but we don't
>> currently spell out those expectations for newcomers (or potential
>> newcomers) as clearly as they have.
>>
>> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
>> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?
>
> Is there an actual social problem you are trying to solve here, or have
> you just run out of things to do? :-)

There are some practical aspects I'd like to address in a more easily
referenced form.

That would primarily be about clarifying ways of handle certain
recurring confrontational tasks respectfully:

* redirecting requests for help on either python-dev or python-ideas
to Stack Overflow or python-list
* redirecting threads for insufficiently fleshed out suggestions from
python-dev to python-ideas
* suggesting that particular ideas may be better suited to a third
party package or a personal utility module
* pointing out when an idea has already been considered (and rejected)
in the past
* when raising concerns about an already landed change, being clear on
the difference between asking for the change to be reverted vs asking
for clarification or further improvement

That last one is actually an area where I *dis*agree with the FreeBSD
guidelines - I see asking for someone to revert a change as a big
deal, as it means we're laying claim to a non-trivial amount of their
time. A non-urgent request for clarification is a different story, but
I also see us occasionally repeating a pattern where long before the
person that actually made a change has a chance to respond to a
thread, there'll be half a dozen or more people jumping in saying
"Yeah, I want an answer too!".

Given the global nature of the lists, I think we should be giving
folks *at least* 24 hours to reply to a question before assuming
they're not going to respond, and given that only some of us get to
count reading and replying to python-dev threads as work time, a few
days leeway would be better (perhaps even a week to account for folks
that are busy with other things during the week and mostly contribute
on weekends). Those of us that *do* get paid for this also need to try
to remember to account for that asymmetry in available time for
participation.

The general Python CoC is good as far as it goes, but actually putting
openness, respect and kindness into practice on a public international
mailing list that now mixes paid contributors with volunteers is a
genuinely hard task that could likely benefit from a few pragmatic
tips :)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From meadori at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:49:13 2015
From: meadori at gmail.com (Meador Inge)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:13 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7eJK80P2yxRZcgdmc-z=0WwF9=o4dX3xWxWaYGyiQbOjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
 <CADiSq7eJK80P2yxRZcgdmc-z=0WwF9=o4dX3xWxWaYGyiQbOjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1QooqO-ywDPpQpZF=5Ew6cc+0Fv+4aCoKFh+8Vj3WyCPN-Dw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> That last one is actually an area where I *dis*agree with the FreeBSD
> guidelines - I see asking for someone to revert a change as a big
> deal, as it means we're laying claim to a non-trivial amount of their
> time. A non-urgent request for clarification is a different story, but
> I also see us occasionally repeating a pattern where long before the
> person that actually made a change has a chance to respond to a
> thread, there'll be half a dozen or more people jumping in saying
> "Yeah, I want an answer too!".

I have seen a couple of these too.  Sometimes it is a pile on, but
other times it is a very reasonable question to python-dev that goes
completely unanswered.  Those cases (which are admittedly
few) are unfortunate b/c if one person has a question about a
commit, then others probably to do.  When the question goes
unanswered, then we miss out on learning something.

For example, I remember a case from a few months ago where someone
(don't remember who off the top of my head) made a micro-optimization
and there were post-commit questions about it.  As far as I can tell, the
question went unanswered and I sincerely was curious what the rationale
for the change was.  I felt like there was something we all could have
learned from the potential discussion around the question that was asked.

> Given the global nature of the lists, I think we should be giving
> folks *at least* 24 hours to reply to a question before assuming
> they're not going to respond, and given that only some of us get to
> count reading and replying to python-dev threads as work time, a few
> days leeway would be better (perhaps even a week to account for folks
> that are busy with other things during the week and mostly contribute
> on weekends). Those of us that *do* get paid for this also need to try
> to remember to account for that asymmetry in available time for
> participation.

To me this depends on why the change is being questioned.  If there is
a question about why a change was made or a minor bug was found in
post-commit review*, then I agree it can wait a few days.  On the other
hand, if someone commits a change that turns all the build-bots red and
doesn't respond for several hours, then I would think that is fair game
to revert.

So, I do think reverting changes is a very reasonable course of action at
times.  It should just be used judiciously.

-- Meador

* Ideally these kinds of things would be caught in pre-commit review, but
I understand that it is not always practical to expect that everyone gets
a chance for pre-commit review for every change or that every bug is
caught in pre-commit review.

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 09:05:04 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 17:05:04 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CAK1QooqO-ywDPpQpZF=5Ew6cc+0Fv+4aCoKFh+8Vj3WyCPN-Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150716041618.GE21874@ando.pearwood.info>
 <CADiSq7eJK80P2yxRZcgdmc-z=0WwF9=o4dX3xWxWaYGyiQbOjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1QooqO-ywDPpQpZF=5Ew6cc+0Fv+4aCoKFh+8Vj3WyCPN-Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7cu=7dLjta3F9DQh+Yv+mz9=nctTMMGH3XqD5sqBi4k+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 July 2015 at 01:49, Meador Inge <meadori at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Given the global nature of the lists, I think we should be giving
>> folks *at least* 24 hours to reply to a question before assuming
>> they're not going to respond, and given that only some of us get to
>> count reading and replying to python-dev threads as work time, a few
>> days leeway would be better (perhaps even a week to account for folks
>> that are busy with other things during the week and mostly contribute
>> on weekends). Those of us that *do* get paid for this also need to try
>> to remember to account for that asymmetry in available time for
>> participation.
>
> To me this depends on why the change is being questioned.  If there is
> a question about why a change was made or a minor bug was found in
> post-commit review*, then I agree it can wait a few days.  On the other
> hand, if someone commits a change that turns all the build-bots red and
> doesn't respond for several hours, then I would think that is fair game
> to revert.
>
> So, I do think reverting changes is a very reasonable course of action at
> times.  It should just be used judiciously.

I agree. The problem at the moment is that the norms around various
things (particularly relating to pre-commit and post-commit review)
are not only largely unwritten but have also changed over time, so we
sometimes get mismatched expectations.

Longer term, there are actually some real tooling problems worth
fixing (hence the forge.python.org proposals, and the core workflow
GSoC projects), but a bit more clarity in our expectations wouldn't
hurt in the meantime.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From senthil at uthcode.com  Fri Jul 17 18:21:49 2015
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:21:49 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 2.7 compilation problem on Mac 10.10.4 -
	Failure with mac specific modules
Message-ID: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>

This failure happens only in 2.7 branch in the source tree.

[localhost 2.7]$ hg branch
2.7

[localhost 2.7]$ hg head 2.7
changeset:   96916:ca78b9449e04
branch:      2.7
user:        Zachary Ware <zachary.ware at gmail.com>
date:        Thu Jul 16 00:24:48 2015 -0500

$./configure

is OK

$ make
/opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2 -c -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv
-O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes  -I. -IInclude -I./Include   -DPy_BUILD_CORE
-o Python/mactoolboxglue.o Python/mactoolboxglue.c
In file included from
/System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Headers/CoreServices.h:55,
                 from
/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Headers/Carbon.h:20,
                 from Include/pymactoolbox.h:10,
                 from Python/mactoolboxglue.c:27:
/System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Headers/FSEvents.h:486:
error: expected ?,? or ?}? before ?__attribute__?
make: *** [Python/mactoolboxglue.o] Error 1


If I disable Mac specific modules

$ ./configure --disable-toolbox-glue
$ make is fine.

Has any else observed this? I am trying to determine if this a bug or an
incompatibility of Mac Command Line Tools I have with the 2.7 sources, most
likely it is the later.

-- 
Senthil
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From nad at acm.org  Fri Jul 17 18:44:16 2015
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 10:44:16 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] 2.7 compilation problem on Mac 10.10.4 -
	Failure with mac specific modules
In-Reply-To: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6FBEEC18-681C-4CAE-892D-9FC4C415C72E@acm.org>

On the road in the wilds of the Rockies at the moment I can check tonight but it should work. What version of OS X and Xcode :(xcodebuild -version)?

  --
    Ned Deily


> On Jul 17, 2015, at 10:21, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> wrote:
> 
> This failure happens only in 2.7 branch in the source tree.
> 
> [localhost 2.7]$ hg branch
> 2.7
> 
> [localhost 2.7]$ hg head 2.7
> changeset:   96916:ca78b9449e04
> branch:      2.7
> user:        Zachary Ware <zachary.ware at gmail.com>
> date:        Thu Jul 16 00:24:48 2015 -0500
> 
> $./configure
> 
> is OK
> 
> $ make
> /opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2 -c -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes  -I. -IInclude -I./Include   -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Python/mactoolboxglue.o Python/mactoolboxglue.c
> In file included from /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Headers/CoreServices.h:55,
>                  from /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Headers/Carbon.h:20,
>                  from Include/pymactoolbox.h:10,
>                  from Python/mactoolboxglue.c:27:
> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Headers/FSEvents.h:486: error: expected ?,? or ?}? before ?__attribute__?
> make: *** [Python/mactoolboxglue.o] Error 1
> 
> 
> If I disable Mac specific modules
> 
> $ ./configure --disable-toolbox-glue
> $ make is fine.
> 
> Has any else observed this? I am trying to determine if this a bug or an incompatibility of Mac Command Line Tools I have with the 2.7 sources, most likely it is the later. 
> 
> -- 
> Senthil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
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From senthil at uthcode.com  Fri Jul 17 19:22:54 2015
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 10:22:54 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 2.7 compilation problem on Mac 10.10.4 -
 Failure with mac specific modules
In-Reply-To: <6FBEEC18-681C-4CAE-892D-9FC4C415C72E@acm.org>
References: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6FBEEC18-681C-4CAE-892D-9FC4C415C72E@acm.org>
Message-ID: <CAPOVWOR=SaAKC6br-szwX_H7vMA89O3viVopLva6Dt3G7QrLVw@mail.gmail.com>

I am on 10.10.4 - Yosemite

$ xcodebuild -version
Xcode 6.1.1
Build version 6A2008a


On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Ned Deily <nad at acm.org> wrote:

> On the road in the wilds of the Rockies at the moment I can check tonight
> but it should work. What version of OS X and Xcode :(xcodebuild -version)?
>
>   --
>     Ned Deily
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 10:21, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> wrote:
>
> This failure happens only in 2.7 branch in the source tree.
>
> [localhost 2.7]$ hg branch
> 2.7
>
> [localhost 2.7]$ hg head 2.7
> changeset:   96916:ca78b9449e04
> branch:      2.7
> user:        Zachary Ware <zachary.ware at gmail.com>
> date:        Thu Jul 16 00:24:48 2015 -0500
>
> $./configure
>
> is OK
>
> $ make
> /opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2 -c -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g
> -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes  -I. -IInclude -I./Include
> -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Python/mactoolboxglue.o Python/mactoolboxglue.c
> In file included from
> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Headers/CoreServices.h:55,
>                  from
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Headers/Carbon.h:20,
>                  from Include/pymactoolbox.h:10,
>                  from Python/mactoolboxglue.c:27:
> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Headers/FSEvents.h:486:
> error: expected ?,? or ?}? before ?__attribute__?
> make: *** [Python/mactoolboxglue.o] Error 1
>
>
> If I disable Mac specific modules
>
> $ ./configure --disable-toolbox-glue
> $ make is fine.
>
> Has any else observed this? I am trying to determine if this a bug or an
> incompatibility of Mac Command Line Tools I have with the 2.7 sources, most
> likely it is the later.
>
> --
> Senthil
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
>
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From meadori at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 20:26:04 2015
From: meadori at gmail.com (Meador Inge)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 13:26:04 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 2.7 compilation problem on Mac 10.10.4 -
 Failure with mac specific modules
In-Reply-To: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1QoooF8Lh4S1yEgiJ2OP00tb7yCMuhP2ZcPW35xn2Ap+_jqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> wrote:
> This failure happens only in 2.7 branch in the source tree.
>
> [localhost 2.7]$ hg branch
> 2.7
>
> [localhost 2.7]$ hg head 2.7
> changeset:   96916:ca78b9449e04
> branch:      2.7
> user:        Zachary Ware <zachary.ware at gmail.com>
> date:        Thu Jul 16 00:24:48 2015 -0500
>
> $./configure
>
> is OK
>
> $ make
> /opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2 -c -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv
> -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes  -I. -IInclude -I./Include   -DPy_BUILD_CORE
> -o Python/mactoolboxglue.o Python/mactoolboxglue.c
> In file included from
> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Headers/CoreServices.h:55,
>                  from
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Headers/Carbon.h:20,
>                  from Include/pymactoolbox.h:10,
>                  from Python/mactoolboxglue.c:27:
> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Headers/FSEvents.h:486:
> error: expected ?,? or ?}? before ?__attribute__?
> make: *** [Python/mactoolboxglue.o] Error 1

Are you really meaning to use GCC 4.2 (that is ancient)?

I can reproduce your problem, but only with gcc-4.2.
Clang works just fine.
Here are the compiler versions I am using:

drago:llvm meadori$ gcc-4.2 --version
couldn't understand kern.osversion `14.3.0'
i686-apple-darwin11-gcc-4.2.1 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)
Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

drago:llvm meadori$ gcc --version
Configured with:
--prefix=/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr
--with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/include/c++/4.2.1
Apple LLVM version 6.0 (clang-600.0.56) (based on LLVM 3.5svn)
Target: x86_64-apple-darwin14.3.0
Thread model: posix

Hope that helps,

-- Meador

From antoine at python.org  Sat Jul 18 01:57:27 2015
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 01:57:27 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] More explicit Code of Conduct for the issue
 tracker & core mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cC_9nOOu043qGMPtoynVc16kR66e=w+ytJD6nX_pC8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A99667.8070809@python.org>


Hi Nick,

Given the amount of ludicrous babble that goes on on python-dev and the
like, I've unsubscribed from those lists, so I don't have much interest
in this discussion anymore.

I hope you can make them a better place anyway.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 15/07/2015 04:29, Nick Coghlan a ?crit :
> Hi folks,
> 
> The FreeBSD community recently posted their Code of Conduct guidelines
> for technical discussions at
> https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
> 
> I think their guidelines align pretty well with the way we try to run
> the CPython issue tracker and the core mailing lists, but we don't
> currently spell out those expectations for newcomers (or potential
> newcomers) as clearly as they have.
> 
> Would folks mind if I drafted a CPython Code of Conduct inspired by
> their example, and proposed it for inclusion in the Developer's Guide?
> 
> Regards,
> Nick.
> 

From nad at acm.org  Sat Jul 18 05:26:37 2015
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 22:26:37 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 2.7 compilation problem on Mac 10.10.4 -
	Failure with mac specific modules
In-Reply-To: <CAK1QoooF8Lh4S1yEgiJ2OP00tb7yCMuhP2ZcPW35xn2Ap+_jqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1QoooF8Lh4S1yEgiJ2OP00tb7yCMuhP2ZcPW35xn2Ap+_jqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AEA6A481-529B-4A72-91AF-E0BE2EC6C26E@acm.org>

On Jul 17, 2015, at 13:26, Meador Inge <meadori at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> wrote:
>> This failure happens only in 2.7 branch in the source tree.
>> 
>> [localhost 2.7]$ hg branch
>> 2.7
>> 
>> [localhost 2.7]$ hg head 2.7
>> changeset:   96916:ca78b9449e04
>> branch:      2.7
>> user:        Zachary Ware <zachary.ware at gmail.com>
>> date:        Thu Jul 16 00:24:48 2015 -0500
>> 
>> $./configure
>> 
>> is OK
>> 
>> $ make
>> /opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2 -c -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv
>> -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes  -I. -IInclude -I./Include   -DPy_BUILD_CORE
>> -o Python/mactoolboxglue.o Python/mactoolboxglue.c
>> In file included from
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Headers/CoreServices.h:55,
>>                 from
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Headers/Carbon.h:20,
>>                 from Include/pymactoolbox.h:10,
>>                 from Python/mactoolboxglue.c:27:
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/FSEvents.framework/Headers/FSEvents.h:486:
>> error: expected ?,? or ?}? before ?__attribute__?
>> make: *** [Python/mactoolboxglue.o] Error 1
> 
> Are you really meaning to use GCC 4.2 (that is ancient)?
> 
> I can reproduce your problem, but only with gcc-4.2.
> Clang works just fine.
> Here are the compiler versions I am using:
> 
> drago:llvm meadori$ gcc-4.2 --version
> couldn't understand kern.osversion `14.3.0'
> i686-apple-darwin11-gcc-4.2.1 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)
> Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
> 
> drago:llvm meadori$ gcc --version
> Configured with:
> --prefix=/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr
> --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/include/c++/4.2.1
> Apple LLVM version 6.0 (clang-600.0.56) (based on LLVM 3.5svn)
> Target: x86_64-apple-darwin14.3.0
> Thread model: posix
> 
> Hope that helps,

Meador's right.  Don't use the old gcc-4.2 with the current SDK / Command Line Tools.  Let CC default to "cc" or set it to "clang"; presumably something is setting the CC environment variable to /opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2.

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at acm.org -- []



From larry at hastings.org  Sat Jul 18 12:24:21 2015
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 03:24:21 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Reminder: Python 3.5 beta 4 is tagged in one
	week
Message-ID: <55AA2955.8030404@hastings.org>



Approximately a week from when I post this, I'll be tagging Python 3.5 
beta 4, which is the last beta before we go to release candidates.  
Please wind up all your bug fixes soon, I'd really like checkins to 3.5 
to stop soon.

And a minor reminder: when we hit Release Candidate 1, I'll be switching 
the canonical repo for 3.5 to a public Bitbucket repo. Any bug fixes 
that go in between RC 1 and final will only be merged using Bitbucket 
"pull requests".

The new workflow experiment continues,


//arry/
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From senthil at uthcode.com  Sun Jul 19 06:49:08 2015
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:49:08 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 2.7 compilation problem on Mac 10.10.4 -
 Failure with mac specific modules
In-Reply-To: <AEA6A481-529B-4A72-91AF-E0BE2EC6C26E@acm.org>
References: <CAPOVWOS1_WMpJkcDVc37g4sewr+O1tM5yQ9C2Xey7fi3-nLGiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1QoooF8Lh4S1yEgiJ2OP00tb7yCMuhP2ZcPW35xn2Ap+_jqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEA6A481-529B-4A72-91AF-E0BE2EC6C26E@acm.org>
Message-ID: <CAPOVWOQttL6XGDJuPsHPppJO=tmDEe6-E1dYU4ga19dOz1TxBg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 8:26 PM, Ned Deily <nad at acm.org> wrote:

> Meador's right.  Don't use the old gcc-4.2 with the current SDK / Command
> Line Tools.  Let CC default to "cc" or set it to "clang"; presumably
> something is setting the CC environment variable to
> /opt/twitter/bin/gcc-4.2.


Thank you for your help. The old gcc escaped my attention. 3.x compiling
fine with old gcc didn't make me suspect that. But it was indeed the case.
I set the CC envvar to the gcc provided by Apple and it was alright.

Thank you,
Senthil
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From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Tue Jul 21 16:06:54 2015
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:06:54 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Speaking of noticing tracker activity
Message-ID: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>

In the recent thread on python-dev Nick mentioned our dependence on
people noticing active contributors on the tracker.  In that regard I'd
like to recommend people take a look at the work of Martin Panter
(vadmium).

--David

From storchaka at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 17:28:57 2015
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:28:57 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Speaking of noticing tracker activity
In-Reply-To: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>
References: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21.07.15 17:06, R. David Murray wrote:
> In the recent thread on python-dev Nick mentioned our dependence on
> people noticing active contributors on the tracker.  In that regard I'd
> like to recommend people take a look at the work of Martin Panter
> (vadmium).

Me too. Martin starts contributing patches about a year ago. About 
half-year ago he increased his activity and patches become less trivial. 
I have counted about 46 committed patches authored by Martin (16 of them 
were committed by me). But he also was well known as helpful patch 
reviewer and participant of discussions on the tracker for a long time 
before that. I would like to offer granting Martin commit privileges if 
he is interesting in this.


From senthil at uthcode.com  Tue Jul 21 18:09:45 2015
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:09:45 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Speaking of noticing tracker activity
In-Reply-To: <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>
 <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPOVWOTAWMdTdz3r6KEwv90RFU-Pr6m-nsimzX1A7M3o1Yu+vQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I would like to offer granting Martin commit privileges if he is
> interesting in this.


+1  vote from me too. I have noticed number of comments, helpful reviews
and patches from Martin Panter.

-- 
Senthil
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From robertc at robertcollins.net  Tue Jul 21 18:35:29 2015
From: robertc at robertcollins.net (Robert Collins)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 04:35:29 +1200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Reminder: Python 3.5 beta 4 is
	tagged in one week
In-Reply-To: <55AA2955.8030404@hastings.org>
References: <55AA2955.8030404@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <CAJ3HoZ0W8n61XhtCR8jaz=nBmkqLQK7puVdgFLQQtZDY9Kq55g@mail.gmail.com>

Cool. http://bugs.python.org/issue21750 is in a bad state right now.

I landed a patch to fix it, which when exposed to users had some
defects. I'm working on a better patch now, but need to either roll
the prior patch completely back, or get the new one landed before the
next beta. I hope to have that up for review later today {fingers
crossed} - will that be soon enough, or should I look up how to easily
revert stuff out with hg?

-Rob

On 18 July 2015 at 22:24, Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org> wrote:
>
>
> Approximately a week from when I post this, I'll be tagging Python 3.5 beta
> 4, which is the last beta before we go to release candidates.  Please wind
> up all your bug fixes soon, I'd really like checkins to 3.5 to stop soon.
>
> And a minor reminder: when we hit Release Candidate 1, I'll be switching the
> canonical repo for 3.5 to a public Bitbucket repo.  Any bug fixes that go in
> between RC 1 and final will only be merged using Bitbucket "pull requests".
>
> The new workflow experiment continues,
>
>
> /arry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/robertc%40robertcollins.net
>



-- 
Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hp.com>
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

From larry at hastings.org  Tue Jul 21 19:08:41 2015
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:08:41 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Reminder: Python 3.5 beta 4 is
	tagged in one week
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3HoZ0W8n61XhtCR8jaz=nBmkqLQK7puVdgFLQQtZDY9Kq55g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55AA2955.8030404@hastings.org>
 <CAJ3HoZ0W8n61XhtCR8jaz=nBmkqLQK7puVdgFLQQtZDY9Kq55g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55AE7C99.6020801@hastings.org>



On 07/21/2015 06:35 PM, Robert Collins wrote:
> Cool. http://bugs.python.org/issue21750 is in a bad state right now.
>
> I landed a patch to fix it, which when exposed to users had some
> defects. I'm working on a better patch now, but need to either roll
> the prior patch completely back, or get the new one landed before the
> next beta. I hope to have that up for review later today {fingers
> crossed} - will that be soon enough, or should I look up how to easily
> revert stuff out with hg?

If you want to undo it, "hg backout" is the command you want.  In 
general it's best to not check in broken stuff.


//arry/
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From robertc at robertcollins.net  Tue Jul 21 22:07:25 2015
From: robertc at robertcollins.net (Robert Collins)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:07:25 +1200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Reminder: Python 3.5 beta 4 is
	tagged in one week
In-Reply-To: <55AE7C99.6020801@hastings.org>
References: <55AA2955.8030404@hastings.org>
 <CAJ3HoZ0W8n61XhtCR8jaz=nBmkqLQK7puVdgFLQQtZDY9Kq55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55AE7C99.6020801@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <CAJ3HoZ2euStKc=60br0Yho+4UqauPc7kSDXiiwAdC-fKO=+VNg@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 July 2015 at 05:08, Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 07/21/2015 06:35 PM, Robert Collins wrote:
>
> Cool. http://bugs.python.org/issue21750 is in a bad state right now.
>
> I landed a patch to fix it, which when exposed to users had some
> defects. I'm working on a better patch now, but need to either roll
> the prior patch completely back, or get the new one landed before the
> next beta. I hope to have that up for review later today {fingers
> crossed} - will that be soon enough, or should I look up how to easily
> revert stuff out with hg?
>
>
> If you want to undo it, "hg backout" is the command you want.  In general
> it's best to not check in broken stuff.

Thanks. And yes, naturally - we didn't realise it was broken. Passing
tests != fit for purpose.

-Rob

-- 
Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hp.com>
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 06:14:20 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:14:20 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Speaking of noticing tracker activity
In-Reply-To: <CAPOVWOTAWMdTdz3r6KEwv90RFU-Pr6m-nsimzX1A7M3o1Yu+vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>
 <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPOVWOTAWMdTdz3r6KEwv90RFU-Pr6m-nsimzX1A7M3o1Yu+vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7d49Fi3+Ou2iNwTMWjDpTYx03YgCFdONERnbc3yKsywKg@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 July 2015 at 02:09, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I would like to offer granting Martin commit privileges if he is
>> interesting in this.
>
> +1  vote from me too. I have noticed number of comments, helpful reviews and
> patches from Martin Panter.

+1 from me as well. I was actually thinking of Martin when I wrote the
comment David referenced, but hadn't done the research to look into
his wider involvement in tracker discussions.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 18:23:16 2015
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 19:23:16 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Speaking of noticing tracker activity
In-Reply-To: <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>
 <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAF4280K-e0ArU0XSjnxCykg3Q3mst05VYgx=TNDTW1x1CJ6SjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21.07.15 17:06, R. David Murray wrote:
>>
>> In the recent thread on python-dev Nick mentioned our dependence on
>> people noticing active contributors on the tracker.  In that regard I'd
>> like to recommend people take a look at the work of Martin Panter
>> (vadmium).
>
>
> Me too. Martin starts contributing patches about a year ago. About half-year
> ago he increased his activity and patches become less trivial. I have
> counted about 46 committed patches authored by Martin (16 of them were
> committed by me). But he also was well known as helpful patch reviewer and
> participant of discussions on the tracker for a long time before that. I
> would like to offer granting Martin commit privileges if he is interesting
> in this.

+1

I think I've committed most of the remaining ones :) I was ask Ezio to
give him developer privileges on the tracker a couple months ago. I'm
also willing to mentor if needed.

--Berker

From brian at python.org  Wed Jul 22 18:35:51 2015
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:35:51 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] MSDN subscriptions, Intel ICC licenses
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoG1ONkwFNObMC9_qfe8gOzXh-0Ww0uHP39LNgi6byHkA@mail.gmail.com>

It's that time again: a batch of MSDN subscriptions are expiring, and
I've already heard from a few of you, so in order to make it easier on
the Microsoft end, I'll put together another batch of us to be renewed
all at once.

If you would like a renewal, I need the email address associated with
your account as well as your subscriber ID. You can find the ID in the
top left of https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/manage

If you would like a first time subscription, I need your postal
address and the email address you'd like to use for the account.

We also now have a contact at Intel who can provide our developers
with licenses for Intel ICC compilers. I don't know exactly what
information they're going to need from you, but let me know if this is
something you'd like to make use of.

Brian

From brett at python.org  Wed Jul 22 19:19:44 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:19:44 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Speaking of noticing tracker activity
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280K-e0ArU0XSjnxCykg3Q3mst05VYgx=TNDTW1x1CJ6SjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150721140654.E6EEDB14150@webabinitio.net>
 <molofp$r18$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAF4280K-e0ArU0XSjnxCykg3Q3mst05VYgx=TNDTW1x1CJ6SjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7aC=mhwMgDmGesAFHSM7UUpjbZ7VwdN_oW2uLyPgZZTA@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like enough people support Martin getting commit privileges. I'll
let Berker and David decide if they want to joint mentor Martin or not and
then they can reach out to him about the offer for commit privileges and
the next steps.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:23 AM Berker Peksa? <berker.peksag at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On 21.07.15 17:06, R. David Murray wrote:
> >>
> >> In the recent thread on python-dev Nick mentioned our dependence on
> >> people noticing active contributors on the tracker.  In that regard I'd
> >> like to recommend people take a look at the work of Martin Panter
> >> (vadmium).
> >
> >
> > Me too. Martin starts contributing patches about a year ago. About
> half-year
> > ago he increased his activity and patches become less trivial. I have
> > counted about 46 committed patches authored by Martin (16 of them were
> > committed by me). But he also was well known as helpful patch reviewer
> and
> > participant of discussions on the tracker for a long time before that. I
> > would like to offer granting Martin commit privileges if he is
> interesting
> > in this.
>
> +1
>
> I think I've committed most of the remaining ones :) I was ask Ezio to
> give him developer privileges on the tracker a couple months ago. I'm
> also willing to mentor if needed.
>
> --Berker
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From bcannon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 19:23:10 2015
From: bcannon at gmail.com (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:23:10 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>

I think the only people on it are Antoine, Georg, and myself. Antoine has
said he has left python-dev, Georg is often busy with school, and I'm on a
temp machine for a few weeks so I can't add any SSH keys for a while (heck
I'll probably need new ones installed on my behalf once I have a permanent
machine).

Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically
taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA and
not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for them or
appending it to their existing key file.

P.S.: And I don't even remember how to get people added to the group of
people who can add keys, so I probably need to find that out as well if
anyone steps forward. =)
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From bcannon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 19:29:25 2015
From: bcannon at gmail.com (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:29:25 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe once a month, if that. But there have been times when people have
sent in keys and it has taken a week or so to get them set up which seems
too long.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:28 AM Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com>
wrote:

>
> > On 22 Jul 2015, at 19:23, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think the only people on it are Antoine, Georg, and myself. Antoine
> has said he has left python-dev, Georg is often busy with school, and I'm
> on a temp machine for a few weeks so I can't add any SSH keys for a while
> (heck I'll probably need new ones installed on my behalf once I have a
> permanent machine).
> >
> > Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically
> taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA and
> not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for them or
> appending it to their existing key file.
> >
> > P.S.: And I don't even remember how to get people added to the group of
> people who can add keys, so I probably need to find that out as well if
> anyone steps forward. =)
>
> How often does this come up?  This doesn?t sound like something that
> requires a lot of time to do.
>
> Ronald
>
>
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From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 19:30:04 2015
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 18:30:04 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] MSDN subscriptions, Intel ICC licenses
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoG1ONkwFNObMC9_qfe8gOzXh-0Ww0uHP39LNgi6byHkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+XWwoG1ONkwFNObMC9_qfe8gOzXh-0Ww0uHP39LNgi6byHkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACac1F9YU5SRuPMbx6t3rXPTsKi-pah=bKRhXg389oqNSq0YgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,
My email is p.f.moore at gmail.com and subscriber ID is 600644185. I may
be a little out of sync - my subscription page says "Expires on
11/1/2016" (I'm assuming that's Jan 2016, UK format date).

I would definitely be interested in an ICC compiler license, if possible.
Paul

On 22 July 2015 at 17:35, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> It's that time again: a batch of MSDN subscriptions are expiring, and
> I've already heard from a few of you, so in order to make it easier on
> the Microsoft end, I'll put together another batch of us to be renewed
> all at once.
>
> If you would like a renewal, I need the email address associated with
> your account as well as your subscriber ID. You can find the ID in the
> top left of https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/manage
>
> If you would like a first time subscription, I need your postal
> address and the email address you'd like to use for the account.
>
> We also now have a contact at Intel who can provide our developers
> with licenses for Intel ICC compilers. I don't know exactly what
> information they're going to need from you, but let me know if this is
> something you'd like to make use of.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers

From kushaldas at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 19:35:58 2015
From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 23:05:58 +0530
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAzeMbxA_ZAwjs-8SPa3h98Nv_8M_46VWPX8TqNVjyDx5ftthg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the only people on it are Antoine, Georg, and myself. Antoine has
> said he has left python-dev, Georg is often busy with school, and I'm on a
> temp machine for a few weeks so I can't add any SSH keys for a while (heck
> I'll probably need new ones installed on my behalf once I have a permanent
> machine).
>
> Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically
> taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA and
> not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for them or
> appending it to their existing key file.
>
> P.S.: And I don't even remember how to get people added to the group of
> people who can add keys, so I probably need to find that out as well if
> anyone steps forward. =)
>
I can volunteer for this.


Kushal
-- 
Fedora Cloud Engineer
CPython Core Developer
http://kushaldas.in

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Wed Jul 22 19:41:07 2015
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 13:41:07 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>

I'm willing to volunteer for this.  I understand how this stuff works,
and no, it doesn't take much time per request...

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:29:25 -0000, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe once a month, if that. But there have been times when people have
> sent in keys and it has taken a week or so to get them set up which seems
> too long.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:28 AM Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > > On 22 Jul 2015, at 19:23, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think the only people on it are Antoine, Georg, and myself. Antoine
> > has said he has left python-dev, Georg is often busy with school, and I'm
> > on a temp machine for a few weeks so I can't add any SSH keys for a while
> > (heck I'll probably need new ones installed on my behalf once I have a
> > permanent machine).
> > >
> > > Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically
> > taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA and
> > not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for them or
> > appending it to their existing key file.
> > >
> > > P.S.: And I don't even remember how to get people added to the group of
> > people who can add keys, so I probably need to find that out as well if
> > anyone steps forward. =)
> >
> > How often does this come up?  This doesn???t sound like something that
> > requires a lot of time to do.
> >
> > Ronald
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Wed Jul 22 19:27:59 2015
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 19:27:59 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>


> On 22 Jul 2015, at 19:23, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the only people on it are Antoine, Georg, and myself. Antoine has said he has left python-dev, Georg is often busy with school, and I'm on a temp machine for a few weeks so I can't add any SSH keys for a while (heck I'll probably need new ones installed on my behalf once I have a permanent machine).
> 
> Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA and not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for them or appending it to their existing key file.
> 
> P.S.: And I don't even remember how to get people added to the group of people who can add keys, so I probably need to find that out as well if anyone steps forward. =)

How often does this come up?  This doesn?t sound like something that requires a lot of time to do. 

Ronald


From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Jul 23 00:18:38 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 00:18:38 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B016BE.3000809@jcea.es>

On 22/07/15 19:23, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically
> taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA
> and not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for
> them or appending it to their existing key file.

I volunteer if there is a checklist or tutorial for that somewhere.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Jul 23 00:14:52 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 00:14:52 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] MSDN subscriptions, Intel ICC licenses
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoG1ONkwFNObMC9_qfe8gOzXh-0Ww0uHP39LNgi6byHkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+XWwoG1ONkwFNObMC9_qfe8gOzXh-0Ww0uHP39LNgi6byHkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B015DC.8060601@jcea.es>

I wonder if we could arrange something similar with Oracle?. Python
support on Solaris is important, I guess... :-).

Not a lot of hope, thought. I have fighting them to get a Solaris
license for years because of my free work on Python's Oracle Berkeley DB
bindings. No luck so far. I surrendered... :)

Does PSF has any kind of leverage with Oracle?.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From brett at python.org  Thu Jul 23 16:37:16 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:37:16 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to David, Eric, and Kushal for volunteering (and Jesus for willing
to but there is no tutorial). I have asked the infrastructure team how to
grant you all access to the needed hg repo and get you on the hgaccounts
email alias.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:41 AM R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com>
wrote:

> I'm willing to volunteer for this.  I understand how this stuff works,
> and no, it doesn't take much time per request...
>
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:29:25 -0000, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Maybe once a month, if that. But there have been times when people have
> > sent in keys and it has taken a week or so to get them set up which seems
> > too long.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:28 AM Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > On 22 Jul 2015, at 19:23, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think the only people on it are Antoine, Georg, and myself. Antoine
> > > has said he has left python-dev, Georg is often busy with school, and
> I'm
> > > on a temp machine for a few weeks so I can't add any SSH keys for a
> while
> > > (heck I'll probably need new ones installed on my behalf once I have a
> > > permanent machine).
> > > >
> > > > Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's
> basically
> > > taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's
> RSA and
> > > not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for
> them or
> > > appending it to their existing key file.
> > > >
> > > > P.S.: And I don't even remember how to get people added to the group
> of
> > > people who can add keys, so I probably need to find that out as well if
> > > anyone steps forward. =)
> > >
> > > How often does this come up?  This doesn?t sound like something that
> > > requires a lot of time to do.
> > >
> > > Ronald
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From brett at python.org  Thu Jul 23 16:35:58 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:35:58 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <55B016BE.3000809@jcea.es>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B016BE.3000809@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4KpHtM5=inHEsrprF=m1CqkZ8DBNNNsKB0XJg4KF5T3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:18 PM Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:

> On 22/07/15 19:23, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > Is anyone up for helping with adding SSH keys for people? It's basically
> > taking someone's key as an attachment in an email, making sure it's RSA
> > and not DSA, and then either creating a new file in a specific repo for
> > them or appending it to their existing key file.
>
> I volunteer if there is a checklist or tutorial for that somewhere.
>

Unfortunately not.
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From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Jul 23 17:38:10 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:38:10 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>

On 23/07/15 16:37, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Thanks to David, Eric, and Kushal for volunteering (and Jesus for
> willing to but there is no tutorial). I have asked the infrastructure
> team how to grant you all access to the needed hg repo and get you on
> the hgaccounts email alias.

I am well versed in sysadmin (20 years in the trenches). For me a
tutorial is "you have to commit this key file in this repository, and
then update that other indexfile. Verify that everything is OK doing that".

:-)

Anyway, three new volunteer for a monthly 10 minutes action looks enough
to me O:-).

I wonder about the new PSF "infraestructure/programming volunteers".
Never heard of them and I am more than willing to help out.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From robertc at robertcollins.net  Thu Jul 23 18:30:45 2015
From: robertc at robertcollins.net (Robert Collins)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 04:30:45 +1200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Reminder: Python 3.5 beta 4 is
	tagged in one week
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3HoZ2euStKc=60br0Yho+4UqauPc7kSDXiiwAdC-fKO=+VNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55AA2955.8030404@hastings.org>
 <CAJ3HoZ0W8n61XhtCR8jaz=nBmkqLQK7puVdgFLQQtZDY9Kq55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55AE7C99.6020801@hastings.org>
 <CAJ3HoZ2euStKc=60br0Yho+4UqauPc7kSDXiiwAdC-fKO=+VNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3HoZ3_TXiHBuSK5J8XYK_ZAL0np9nZ0aSQjtReVnt=dBvWdg@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 July 2015 at 08:07, Robert Collins <robertc at robertcollins.net> wrote:
> On 22 July 2015 at 05:08, Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 07/21/2015 06:35 PM, Robert Collins wrote:
>>
>> Cool. http://bugs.python.org/issue21750 is in a bad state right now.
>>
>> I landed a patch to fix it, which when exposed to users had some
>> defects. I'm working on a better patch now, but need to either roll
>> the prior patch completely back, or get the new one landed before the
>> next beta. I hope to have that up for review later today {fingers
>> crossed} - will that be soon enough, or should I look up how to easily
>> revert stuff out with hg?
>>
>>
>> If you want to undo it, "hg backout" is the command you want.  In general
>> it's best to not check in broken stuff.
>
> Thanks. And yes, naturally - we didn't realise it was broken. Passing
> tests != fit for purpose.

21750 is now sorted out in the cpython repo.

I have a separate question for you - issue2091 has a good patch on it,
but would you like it added to 3.5?

It makes a broken combination of file modes - rU+ - a clean error, and
tweaks the existing exception text for U + writing modes.

-Rob




-- 
Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hp.com>
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:59:46 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:59:46 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>

On 24 Jul 2015 01:38, "Jesus Cea" <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
>
> I wonder about the new PSF "infraestructure/programming volunteers".
> Never heard of them and I am more than willing to help out.

The infra team handles the back end servers for PyPI, PyCon, python.org, et
al.

Folks with the "keys to the kingdom" are listed at
http://psf-salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/overview/ (along with a good
overview of the extent of the kingdom), while
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure is the general
infra mailing list.

Cheers,
Nick.
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From jcea at jcea.es  Fri Jul 24 13:19:32 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:19:32 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
 <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B21F44.7050709@jcea.es>

On 24/07/15 10:59, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> 
> On 24 Jul 2015 01:38, "Jesus Cea" <jcea at jcea.es <mailto:jcea at jcea.es>>
> wrote:
>>
>> I wonder about the new PSF "infraestructure/programming volunteers".
>> Never heard of them and I am more than willing to help out.
> 
> The infra team handles the back end servers for PyPI, PyCon, python.org
> <http://python.org>, et al.
> 
> Folks with the "keys to the kingdom" are listed at
> http://psf-salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/overview/ (along with a good
> overview of the extent of the kingdom), while
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure is the general
> infra mailing list.

This is getting a bit offtopic :).

I am talking about option 4 and 5 in
<https://www.python.org/psf/membership/#what-membership-classes-are-there>.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From larry at hastings.org  Sun Jul 26 16:37:20 2015
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:37:20 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0b4 is now available
Message-ID: <CAOBd=7mj5gLt7bNMQ0sZV_Jx1iJH1cPEgEq+85fzNk+OjQ7RFw@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5 release
team, I'm delighted to announce the availability of Python 3.5.0b4.  Python
3.5.0b4 is scheduled to be the last beta release; the next release will be
Python 3.5.0rc1, or Release Candidate 1.

Python 3.5 has now entered "feature freeze".  By default new features may
no longer be added to Python 3.5.

This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for production
settings.

An important reminder for Windows users about Python 3.5.0b4: if installing
Python 3.5.0b4 as a non-privileged user, you may need to escalate to
administrator privileges to install an update to your C runtime libraries.


You can find Python 3.5.0b4 here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350b4/

Happy hacking,


*/arry*
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From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Jul 29 18:06:55 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:06:55 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
	only" releases
Message-ID: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>

Yesterday I upgraded one of my computer to 2.7.10 and a program working
for years failed.

The problem is this:

"""
http=httplib.HTTPConnection("127.0.0.1",8081)
http.request("GET","/XXXXX/%f" %last_t, "", \
  {"Authorization":"Basic %s" %base64.encodestring("%s:%s" %(a,b))})
"""

base64.encodestring() creates base64 encoding with a final '\n'. This
used to work until 2.7.9 but 2.7.10 if failing now with an exception
about an "illegal character" in a header.

I know that that code is faulty and I should drop the final '\n' or just
use "base64.b64encode()" (my current fix). The point, thought, it that
this code used to work in previous 2.7 releases but it is failing under
2.7.10.

This incompatible change will be released in 3.4.4 too.

I agree that new code is better, no argument here. My program was
incorrect, sure. But I was under the impression that backwards
incompatible code was forbidden in minor releases, except for very
critical reasons (like the HTTPS security default backported to 2.7). I
think that breaking working code during minor updates is risky and
breaks user/programmer expectations.

The change was done in <https://bugs.python.org/issue22928>.

I think the change is the way to go, I don't ask for a revert (since
2.7.10 is already in the wild I want to keep it too in future 3.4.4) but
I am interested in knowing the official statement of committers about
backwards incompatible changes in minor releases for my own future
reference.

Sorry if this email seems confrontational. Not my intention, but my
English is getting worse by the day :-). This is an inquiry about
policy, not an attack.

Thanks!

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From guido at python.org  Wed Jul 29 18:50:27 2015
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:50:27 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>

I believe that in this particular case, the bug was fixed (by tightening
the requirements for headers) because the bug can lead to security
vulnerabilities. I think you can find more by Googling for keywords like
"http header injection". The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL of
2.7 is summer 2020).

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:

> Yesterday I upgraded one of my computer to 2.7.10 and a program working
> for years failed.
>
> The problem is this:
>
> """
> http=httplib.HTTPConnection("127.0.0.1",8081)
> http.request("GET","/XXXXX/%f" %last_t, "", \
>   {"Authorization":"Basic %s" %base64.encodestring("%s:%s" %(a,b))})
> """
>
> base64.encodestring() creates base64 encoding with a final '\n'. This
> used to work until 2.7.9 but 2.7.10 if failing now with an exception
> about an "illegal character" in a header.
>
> I know that that code is faulty and I should drop the final '\n' or just
> use "base64.b64encode()" (my current fix). The point, thought, it that
> this code used to work in previous 2.7 releases but it is failing under
> 2.7.10.
>
> This incompatible change will be released in 3.4.4 too.
>
> I agree that new code is better, no argument here. My program was
> incorrect, sure. But I was under the impression that backwards
> incompatible code was forbidden in minor releases, except for very
> critical reasons (like the HTTPS security default backported to 2.7). I
> think that breaking working code during minor updates is risky and
> breaks user/programmer expectations.
>
> The change was done in <https://bugs.python.org/issue22928>.
>
> I think the change is the way to go, I don't ask for a revert (since
> 2.7.10 is already in the wild I want to keep it too in future 3.4.4) but
> I am interested in knowing the official statement of committers about
> backwards incompatible changes in minor releases for my own future
> reference.
>
> Sorry if this email seems confrontational. Not my intention, but my
> English is getting worse by the day :-). This is an inquiry about
> policy, not an attack.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
> jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
> jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
> "Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> "My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
> "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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From robertc at robertcollins.net  Wed Jul 29 19:01:12 2015
From: robertc at robertcollins.net (Robert Collins)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 05:01:12 +1200
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 July 2015 at 04:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> I believe that in this particular case, the bug was fixed (by tightening the
> requirements for headers) because the bug can lead to security
> vulnerabilities. I think you can find more by Googling for keywords like
> "http header injection". The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
> specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
> security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL of
> 2.7 is summer 2020).

Yeah - this is a security issue, and unfortunately its one that can
break programs [or rather, expose how they were broken already at an
earlier and less susceptible point].

As a new committer, I'd like to double check my understanding of the policy:

https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#maintenance-branches
"...
The only changes allowed to occur in a maintenance branch without
debate are bug fixes. Also, a general rule for maintenance branches is
that compatibility must not be broken at any point between sibling
minor releases (3.4.1, 3.4.2, etc.). For both rules, only rare
exceptions are accepted and must be discussed first."

Where should these things be discussed? I've been discussing with
other committers on the issues in the issue tracker. Is this
sufficient? What is the social norm?

https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#security-branches
"...The only changes made to a security branch are those fixing issues
exploitable by attackers such as crashes, privilege escalation and,
optionally, other issues such as denial of service attacks. Any other
changes are not considered a security risk and thus not backported to
a security branch."

This page doesn't specify the exception for 2.7, and by my poor
reading of it the http issue wouldn't pass muster - but I think it was
appropriate to apply. So I'm confused. Help :).

-Rob

From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 19:20:43 2015
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 11:20:43 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7CUn5qZ5LKjxr7i2Pe+RqBp4wB_HvjsAZ4pjBKVunpM+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Jul 29, 2015 11:08 AM, "Robert Collins" <robertc at robertcollins.net>
wrote:
>
> On 30 July 2015 at 04:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> > The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
> > specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
> > security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL
of
> > 2.7 is summer 2020).
> [snip]
> https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#security-branches
> "...The only changes made to a security branch are those fixing issues
> exploitable by attackers such as crashes, privilege escalation and,
> optionally, other issues such as denial of service attacks. Any other
> changes are not considered a security risk and thus not backported to
> a security branch."
>
> This page doesn't specify the exception for 2.7, and by my poor
> reading of it the http issue wouldn't pass muster - but I think it was
> appropriate to apply. So I'm confused. Help :).

See PEP 466.

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0466/

-eric
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From robertc at robertcollins.net  Wed Jul 29 19:31:42 2015
From: robertc at robertcollins.net (Robert Collins)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 05:31:42 +1200
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7CUn5qZ5LKjxr7i2Pe+RqBp4wB_HvjsAZ4pjBKVunpM+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFfu7CUn5qZ5LKjxr7i2Pe+RqBp4wB_HvjsAZ4pjBKVunpM+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3HoZ1EX=iGD+q2BDmZCy117BuRO=+w6WLHrhayrU5T04tzcw@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 July 2015 at 05:20, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 29, 2015 11:08 AM, "Robert Collins" <robertc at robertcollins.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 30 July 2015 at 04:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>> > The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
>> > specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
>> > security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL
>> > of
>> > 2.7 is summer 2020).
>> [snip]
>> https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#security-branches
>> "...The only changes made to a security branch are those fixing issues
>> exploitable by attackers such as crashes, privilege escalation and,
>> optionally, other issues such as denial of service attacks. Any other
>> changes are not considered a security risk and thus not backported to
>> a security branch."
>>
>> This page doesn't specify the exception for 2.7, and by my poor
>> reading of it the http issue wouldn't pass muster - but I think it was
>> appropriate to apply. So I'm confused. Help :).
>
> See PEP 466.
>
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0466/

Thanks - but that doesn't cover the 22928 fix as far as I can tell. It
explicitly says in fact that its not carte blanch, and that things
still need to be discussed....

and I'm still not clear where we should discuss them :)

-Rob

-- 
Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hp.com>
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

From guido at python.org  Wed Jul 29 19:50:14 2015
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 19:50:14 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3HoZ1EX=iGD+q2BDmZCy117BuRO=+w6WLHrhayrU5T04tzcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFfu7CUn5qZ5LKjxr7i2Pe+RqBp4wB_HvjsAZ4pjBKVunpM+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ1EX=iGD+q2BDmZCy117BuRO=+w6WLHrhayrU5T04tzcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJJVfq2hO9aRPvocxv9mcyi2hcN0GYSOdCt4CqPhnqJ4SQ@mail.gmail.com>

When in doubt, such discussions should be escalated to python-dev. I don't
know if this one was, though I vaguely recall seeing it discussed
somewhere. Anyway, since it's been released, it should stay in.

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Robert Collins <robertc at robertcollins.net>
wrote:

> On 30 July 2015 at 05:20, Eric Snow <ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Jul 29, 2015 11:08 AM, "Robert Collins" <robertc at robertcollins.net>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 30 July 2015 at 04:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> >> > The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
> >> > specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
> >> > security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL
> >> > of
> >> > 2.7 is summer 2020).
> >> [snip]
> >> https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#security-branches
> >> "...The only changes made to a security branch are those fixing issues
> >> exploitable by attackers such as crashes, privilege escalation and,
> >> optionally, other issues such as denial of service attacks. Any other
> >> changes are not considered a security risk and thus not backported to
> >> a security branch."
> >>
> >> This page doesn't specify the exception for 2.7, and by my poor
> >> reading of it the http issue wouldn't pass muster - but I think it was
> >> appropriate to apply. So I'm confused. Help :).
> >
> > See PEP 466.
> >
> > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0466/
>
> Thanks - but that doesn't cover the 22928 fix as far as I can tell. It
> explicitly says in fact that its not carte blanch, and that things
> still need to be discussed....
>
> and I'm still not clear where we should discuss them :)
>
> -Rob
>
> --
> Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hp.com>
> Distinguished Technologist
> HP Converged Cloud
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jul 29 19:41:09 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:41:09 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B91035.2010202@udel.edu>

On 7/29/2015 1:01 PM, Robert Collins wrote:
> On 30 July 2015 at 04:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>> I believe that in this particular case, the bug was fixed (by tightening the
>> requirements for headers) because the bug can lead to security
>> vulnerabilities. I think you can find more by Googling for keywords like
>> "http header injection". The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
>> specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
>> security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL of
>> 2.7 is summer 2020).
>
> Yeah - this is a security issue, and unfortunately its one that can
> break programs [or rather, expose how they were broken already at an
> earlier and less susceptible point].
>
> As a new committer, I'd like to double check my understanding of the policy:
>
> https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#maintenance-branches
> "...
> The only changes allowed to occur in a maintenance branch without
> debate are bug fixes. Also, a general rule for maintenance branches is
> that compatibility must not be broken at any point between sibling
> minor releases (3.4.1, 3.4.2, etc.).

Since bug fixes break code that depends on the bug (as happened in this 
case), the second rule appears to be written too strongly.  It really 
needs a short paragraph.  Bug fixes should only break code depending on 
the bug. Bug fixes must not change existing non-buggy features and 
should not introduce new features.  Non-security bug fixes that break 
too much code deemed to be reasonable are sometimes deferred to the next 
release.

 > For both rules, only rare
> exceptions are accepted and must be discussed first."
>
> Where should these things be discussed? I've been discussing with
> other committers on the issues in the issue tracker. Is this
> sufficient? What is the social norm?

Feature additions like adding a new parameter to fix a bug should be 
discussed on pydev.  For instance, difflib.SequenceMatcher gained the 
autojunk parameter in 2.7.1.  I believe the pydev discussion included 
"Is the issue a bug?" (yes) and "Does it need fixing in the current 
release?" (yes, it generated multiple bug reports). I believe being 
early in the long 2.7.x series and the last change to fix in 2.x played 
a role.

Terry


From jaraco at jaraco.com  Wed Jul 29 20:57:17 2015
From: jaraco at jaraco.com (Jason R. Coombs)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:57:17 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the
	"fix	only" releases
In-Reply-To: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <0573196B-6D1A-4C60-9E72-1B68C11C7DFF@jaraco.com>

For reference, a similar bug fix also introduced incompatibilities with the Chishop service: http://bugs.python.org/issue23899


On Jul 29, 2015, at 12:06, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es<mailto:jcea at jcea.es>> wrote:

Yesterday I upgraded one of my computer to 2.7.10 and a program working
for years failed.

The problem is this:

"""
http=httplib.HTTPConnection("127.0.0.1",8081)
http.request("GET","/XXXXX/%f" %last_t, "", \
 {"Authorization":"Basic %s" %base64.encodestring("%s:%s" %(a,b))})
"""

base64.encodestring() creates base64 encoding with a final '\n'. This
used to work until 2.7.9 but 2.7.10 if failing now with an exception
about an "illegal character" in a header.

I know that that code is faulty and I should drop the final '\n' or just
use "base64.b64encode()" (my current fix). The point, thought, it that
this code used to work in previous 2.7 releases but it is failing under
2.7.10.

This incompatible change will be released in 3.4.4 too.

I agree that new code is better, no argument here. My program was
incorrect, sure. But I was under the impression that backwards
incompatible code was forbidden in minor releases, except for very
critical reasons (like the HTTPS security default backported to 2.7). I
think that breaking working code during minor updates is risky and
breaks user/programmer expectations.

The change was done in <https://bugs.python.org/issue22928>.

I think the change is the way to go, I don't ask for a revert (since
2.7.10 is already in the wild I want to keep it too in future 3.4.4) but
I am interested in knowing the official statement of committers about
backwards incompatible changes in minor releases for my own future
reference.

Sorry if this email seems confrontational. Not my intention, but my
English is getting worse by the day :-). This is an inquiry about
policy, not an attack.

Thanks!

--
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es<mailto:jcea at jcea.es> - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

_______________________________________________
python-committers mailing list
python-committers at python.org<mailto:python-committers at python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers

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From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Wed Jul 29 21:12:52 2015
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 15:12:52 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
	only" releases
In-Reply-To: <55B91035.2010202@udel.edu>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B91035.2010202@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <20150729191252.E3874B9007D@webabinitio.net>

On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:41:09 -0400, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 7/29/2015 1:01 PM, Robert Collins wrote:
> > On 30 July 2015 at 04:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> >> I believe that in this particular case, the bug was fixed (by tightening the
> >> requirements for headers) because the bug can lead to security
> >> vulnerabilities. I think you can find more by Googling for keywords like
> >> "http header injection". The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
> >> specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
> >> security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL of
> >> 2.7 is summer 2020).
> >
> > Yeah - this is a security issue, and unfortunately its one that can
> > break programs [or rather, expose how they were broken already at an
> > earlier and less susceptible point].
> >
> > As a new committer, I'd like to double check my understanding of the policy:
> >
> > https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#maintenance-branches
> > "...
> > The only changes allowed to occur in a maintenance branch without
> > debate are bug fixes. Also, a general rule for maintenance branches is
> > that compatibility must not be broken at any point between sibling
> > minor releases (3.4.1, 3.4.2, etc.).
> 
> Since bug fixes break code that depends on the bug (as happened in this 
> case), the second rule appears to be written too strongly.  It really 
> needs a short paragraph.  Bug fixes should only break code depending on 
> the bug. Bug fixes must not change existing non-buggy features and 
> should not introduce new features.  Non-security bug fixes that break 
> too much code deemed to be reasonable are sometimes deferred to the next 
> release.

No, I don't think it is too strong.  Normally even code that depends on
the bug should not be broken.

The calculus is necessarily a work of art:  how likely is this bug fix
to break working code?  If the bug fixes something that previously
raised an error, it is (usually) a no-brainer.  If it fixes an erroneous
result it is a judgement call based on how likely fixing it is to break
working code, but usually it would get fixed.  If it fixes an erroneous
behavior it is again a judgement call, but weighted toward not going in
to a maintenance release.  Bugs judged too likely to break working code
get fixed in feature releases (and mentioned in What's New).

>  > For both rules, only rare
> > exceptions are accepted and must be discussed first."
> >
> > Where should these things be discussed? I've been discussing with
> > other committers on the issues in the issue tracker. Is this
> > sufficient? What is the social norm?

Usually the bug tracker is enough, with escalation to python-dev if
there is a core-committer disagreement.  For security issues, the
security team should get involved in any decision, and their decision is
pretty much final.  I believe they automatically get notified if
'security' is selected for behavior...if not we should make it so.

> Feature additions like adding a new parameter to fix a bug should be 
> discussed on pydev.  For instance, difflib.SequenceMatcher gained the 
> autojunk parameter in 2.7.1.  I believe the pydev discussion included 
> "Is the issue a bug?" (yes) and "Does it need fixing in the current 
> release?" (yes, it generated multiple bug reports). I believe being 
> early in the long 2.7.x series and the last change to fix in 2.x played 
> a role.

This would be a very exceptional case.  I remember a discussion, I don't
remember the approval of an API change.  Changing the API in a minor
release *except* for security issues is not normally acceptable.
I'd be curious to read the reasoning behind this one.

So, the rule in the devguide is accurate, except that it should note
that exceptions are made for fixing security related issues.  That is,
the calculus about not breaking working code is given a lot less weight,
because the goal of the bug fix is to patch a security hole.  We find
it OK to break working code in order to make that code less vulnerable
to a known attack.  Although still try very hard *not* to break working
code, if at all possible.

--David

From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Jul 30 00:11:53 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:11:53 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B94FA9.7080204@jcea.es>

On 29/07/15 18:50, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I believe that in this particular case, the bug was fixed (by tightening
> the requirements for headers) because the bug can lead to security
> vulnerabilities. I think you can find more by Googling for keywords like
> "http header injection". The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
> specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
> security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL
> of 2.7 is summer 2020).

That argument is valuable but it fails when considering that this fix
will be present in 3.4.4 too, with a normal EOL. I am OK with that,
though. As I said, I sent my first message for policy verification and
to raise awareness.

:-).

PS: I rarely read python-dev. Too much traffic for me :-(.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Thu Jul 30 01:24:55 2015
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 19:24:55 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
	only" releases
In-Reply-To: <55B94FA9.7080204@jcea.es>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B94FA9.7080204@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20150729232455.BE927B30002@webabinitio.net>

On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:11:53 +0200, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
> On 29/07/15 18:50, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > I believe that in this particular case, the bug was fixed (by tightening
> > the requirements for headers) because the bug can lead to security
> > vulnerabilities. I think you can find more by Googling for keywords like
> > "http header injection". The more recent Python 2.7 bugfix releases have
> > specific exemptions from the backwards compatibility requirements for
> > security fixes -- because their lifespan will still be many years (EOL
> > of 2.7 is summer 2020).
> 
> That argument is valuable but it fails when considering that this fix
> will be present in 3.4.4 too, with a normal EOL. I am OK with that,
> though. As I said, I sent my first message for policy verification and
> to raise awareness.

No, the security bug fix conditional exception applies to all
maintenance releases.  The big (PEP required) exception for 2.7 was that
the *API* changed in 2.7 in certain ways.

--David

From Steve.Dower at microsoft.com  Thu Jul 30 00:52:43 2015
From: Steve.Dower at microsoft.com (Steve Dower)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:52:43 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0b4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <CAOBd=7mj5gLt7bNMQ0sZV_Jx1iJH1cPEgEq+85fzNk+OjQ7RFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOBd=7mj5gLt7bNMQ0sZV_Jx1iJH1cPEgEq+85fzNk+OjQ7RFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLUPR0301MB1652E15DBF1A2B2B4CBE485EF58C0@BLUPR0301MB1652.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I finally just got to reading the release page and noticed two notes that should be updated:


?         Windows users: If installing Python 3.5.0b1 as a non-privileged user, you may need to escalate to administrator privileges to install an update to your C runtime libraries.
Should be ?3.5.0b4?, but can probably just say ?3.5? as this requirement is not going to go away (but note ?you may? ? it only occurs at most once per machine).


?         Windows users: The Windows binaries were built with Microsoft Visual Studio 2015, which is not yet officially released. (It's currently offered in "Preview" mode, which is akin to a "beta".) It is our intention to ship Python 3.5 using VS2015, although right now VS2015's final release date is unclear.
The latest build used VS 2015 final. The What?s New page calls out the new compiler, so this point can probably just disappear unless we want to specially call out the changed compiler on the download page.

Cheers,
Steve

From: python-committers [mailto:python-committers-bounces+steve.dower=microsoft.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Larry Hastings
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 0737
To: Python-Dev <python-dev at python.org>; python-committers <python-committers at python.org>; python-announce at python.org; python-list at python.org
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0b4 is now available


On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5 release team, I'm delighted to announce the availability of Python 3.5.0b4.  Python 3.5.0b4 is scheduled to be the last beta release; the next release will be Python 3.5.0rc1, or Release Candidate 1.

Python 3.5 has now entered "feature freeze".  By default new features may no longer be added to Python 3.5.

This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for production settings.

An important reminder for Windows users about Python 3.5.0b4: if installing Python 3.5.0b4 as a non-privileged user, you may need to escalate to administrator privileges to install an update to your C runtime libraries.


You can find Python 3.5.0b4 here:
https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350b4/
Happy hacking,


/arry
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu Jul 30 09:15:00 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:15:00 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] "Gratuitous"? incompatibilities in the "fix
 only" releases
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJJVfq2hO9aRPvocxv9mcyi2hcN0GYSOdCt4CqPhnqJ4SQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55B8FA1F.8070702@jcea.es>
 <CAP7+vJJvaJ-J2F5m6FLAWuMjeQfRT5m5jf4Tn6gXAwjEfua0=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ2HF+q1h3JNovUO6W9_u8Awt9myUE_qgQ3WV2UQ5a5jBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFfu7CUn5qZ5LKjxr7i2Pe+RqBp4wB_HvjsAZ4pjBKVunpM+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ3HoZ1EX=iGD+q2BDmZCy117BuRO=+w6WLHrhayrU5T04tzcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7+vJJVfq2hO9aRPvocxv9mcyi2hcN0GYSOdCt4CqPhnqJ4SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7cZrk3+4LQDZj80G8pqUQW7yEy1Z0oOOdN8cQ369CfG4A@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 July 2015 at 03:50, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> When in doubt, such discussions should be escalated to python-dev. I don't
> know if this one was, though I vaguely recall seeing it discussed somewhere.
> Anyway, since it's been released, it should stay in.

>From a communications perspective, we may want to expand the
https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/2.7.html#new-features-added-to-python-2-7-maintenance-releases
backport documentation idea to also cover this kind of change that
closes a network security hole, but may result in an exception in code
that previously appeared to be doing the right thing.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From brett at python.org  Thu Jul 30 19:37:06 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:37:06 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <55B21F44.7050709@jcea.es>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
 <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B21F44.7050709@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7v7rKUX4F-USNMdLxg8EMOKrfFj6pHS-cpAR0KjXAtFw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Benjamin, we now have instructions in the devguide on how to help
out with adding SSH keys for people:
https://docs.python.org/devguide/developers.html#altering-access . For
those of you who expressed interest in helping out, now you can!

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:19 AM Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:

> On 24/07/15 10:59, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >
> > On 24 Jul 2015 01:38, "Jesus Cea" <jcea at jcea.es <mailto:jcea at jcea.es>>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I wonder about the new PSF "infraestructure/programming volunteers".
> >> Never heard of them and I am more than willing to help out.
> >
> > The infra team handles the back end servers for PyPI, PyCon, python.org
> > <http://python.org>, et al.
> >
> > Folks with the "keys to the kingdom" are listed at
> > http://psf-salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/overview/ (along with a good
> > overview of the extent of the kingdom), while
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure is the general
> > infra mailing list.
>
> This is getting a bit offtopic :).
>
> I am talking about option 4 and 5 in
> <https://www.python.org/psf/membership/#what-membership-classes-are-there
> >.
>
> --
> Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
> jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
> jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
> "Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> "My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
> "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Jul 30 19:51:03 2015
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 19:51:03 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7v7rKUX4F-USNMdLxg8EMOKrfFj6pHS-cpAR0KjXAtFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
 <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B21F44.7050709@jcea.es>
 <CAP1=2W7v7rKUX4F-USNMdLxg8EMOKrfFj6pHS-cpAR0KjXAtFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55BA6407.6090508@jcea.es>

On 30/07/15 19:37, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Thanks to Benjamin, we now have instructions in the devguide on how to
> help out with adding SSH keys for
> people: https://docs.python.org/devguide/developers.html#altering-access
> . For those of you who expressed interest in helping out, now you can!

"""
jcea at ubuntu:~/hg/python$ hg clone ssh://hgaccounts at hg.python.org/repo
remote: Received disconnect from 104.130.43.97: 2: Too many
authentication failures for hgaccounts
abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
"""

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From brett at python.org  Thu Jul 30 20:11:17 2015
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 18:11:17 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <55BA6407.6090508@jcea.es>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
 <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B21F44.7050709@jcea.es>
 <CAP1=2W7v7rKUX4F-USNMdLxg8EMOKrfFj6pHS-cpAR0KjXAtFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55BA6407.6090508@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7GaiZrtZJVVyz1Jhyr25HK+b-qsFs7KcQ-==T62PJ4FQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:51 AM Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:

> On 30/07/15 19:37, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > Thanks to Benjamin, we now have instructions in the devguide on how to
> > help out with adding SSH keys for
> > people: https://docs.python.org/devguide/developers.html#altering-access
> > . For those of you who expressed interest in helping out, now you can!
>
> """
> jcea at ubuntu:~/hg/python$ hg clone ssh://hgaccounts at hg.python.org/repo
> remote: Received disconnect from 104.130.43.97: 2: Too many
> authentication failures for hgaccounts
> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
> """
>

You might need to be added to admin the repo before it will authenticate
your checkout.
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From barry at python.org  Fri Jul 31 18:23:30 2015
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 12:23:30 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] getting help with the hgaccounts alias
In-Reply-To: <55BA6407.6090508@jcea.es>
References: <CAP1=2W5XwGSeg9LH9yMVz_eeyMmdNiNOpA7evniZPek147Nu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6C4AEFC5-B3CE-4346-8BF3-291BEE18A3F6@mac.com>
 <CAP1=2W4qE9uNAj-KzgpEAZZ_2s0gVn46S2Pnd8QVd3X5zEXrSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150722174107.D0E46250F9A@webabinitio.net>
 <CAP1=2W4-KhoEDPnN=9T3q2KstZDBS679XzykwTCajEuRrEVO+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B10A62.7010206@jcea.es>
 <CADiSq7e4irRDLPwctsze_v5=YO72BUjAgx-TYS7JfaJmJZHs6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <55B21F44.7050709@jcea.es>
 <CAP1=2W7v7rKUX4F-USNMdLxg8EMOKrfFj6pHS-cpAR0KjXAtFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55BA6407.6090508@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20150731122330.4ffdb500@limelight.wooz.org>

On Jul 30, 2015, at 07:51 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:

>jcea at ubuntu:~/hg/python$ hg clone ssh://hgaccounts at hg.python.org/repo
>remote: Received disconnect from 104.130.43.97: 2: Too many
>authentication failures for hgaccounts
>abort: no suitable response from remote hg!

This is likely an ssh problem on your end, not an hg problem.

http://superuser.com/questions/187779/too-many-authentication-failures-for-username

Cheers,
-Barry
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