[python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

Paul Moore p.f.moore at gmail.com
Tue Mar 1 12:54:52 EST 2016

On 1 March 2016 at 17:36, R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 04:10:08 +0000, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 at 18:01 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> > So let me make it clear: Brett, and the other list maintainers, you're
>> > not listening. Even if I'm a minority of one out of the whole community,
>> > your words say "of course we care what you think" but your actions say
>> > "actually no, we couldn't care less". You might not have intended it
>> > that way, but nevertheless that's the way it is.
>> >
>> I see where the issue came in: I simply considered the discussion on the
>> CoC already settled. As you pointed out in your second paragraph, the
> Just so Steven doesn't think he's a minority of one, let me say that I
> too find CoCs problematic.  I have a code of conduct, and it applies to my
> *life*.  For shorthand, you could call it "being a gentleman", but a more
> modern term might be "being civil".  Do I fail to live up to my personal
> code occasionally?  Yes, and I hope people call me on it when I do fail.
> Do I care what code of conduct the organization has promulgated?  No.
> It has no affect on my behavior, nor will it.  At most, it might drive
> me from the community if it is ever used against me.

Let me also add that I have little or no interest in codes of conduct.
I don't *object* to them (specifically I have no problem with the
Python CoC or it being applied to core devs in relevant situations)
but it seems to me that they are becoming a bit of a "trendy thing to
have" rather than anything of any particular substance.

But ultimately what matters is that people who feel unwelcome, or
discriminated against, have said that they help lessen such problems -
so that's fine by me. I'm 100% behind doing whatever makes such people
feel better about participating in the community.

Contrariwise, I wouldn't feel any need to refer to a CoC when calling
someone out on bad behaviour - if pointing out that they are being
unpleasant isn't enough then waving a set of rules at them won't help.
And if *I* ever behave badly, I'd expect people to simply say so, not
to quote a CoC at me.

Going into specifics:

Brett - I don't have any problem with what you did, or the changes you
want to make.
Steven - you make some good points that I think people should keep in mind
But overall, arguing over the specifics of how we set our expectations
that people simply be nice to each other is basically a bit silly, and
if we let it go on, could easily result in the opposite effect from
what was intended.

That's about all I have to say on this matter.

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