From larry at hastings.org  Mon Apr  2 07:41:52 2018
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 04:41:52 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [Crosspost from python-committers] Announcing:
 signups are open for the 2018 Python Language Summit
Message-ID: <7ad20027-bbb4-8d83-befb-1787a513f0da@hastings.org>


It?s that time again: time to start thinking about the Python Language 
Summit!? The 2018 summit will be held on Wednesday, May 9, from 10am to 
4pm, at the Huntington Convention Center in Cleveland, Ohio, USA.? Your 
befezzled and befuddled hosts Barry and Larry will once more be behind 
the big desk in front.

The summit?s purpose is to disseminate information and spark 
conversation among core Python developers.? It?s our yearly opportunity 
to get together for an in-person discussion, to review interesting 
developments of the previous year and hash out where we?re going next.? 
And we have lots to talk about!? 3.7 is in beta, and we've all 
collectively started work on 3.8 too.

As before, we?re using Google Forms to collect signups.? Signups are 
open now; the deadline to sign up is Wednesday April 18th, 2018 (AoE).? 
Please do us a favor and sign up sooner rather than later.? The signup 
form is simpler this year--I bet most people can be done in less than 
two minutes!

One difference from last year: there are now *two* forms.? The first 
form is for signing up to attend (the "Request For Invitation" form), 
and the second form is for proposing a talk. Please note: if you want to 
present, you still need to fill out the Request For Invitation form 
too.? (Yes, it's more complicated this way, sorry.? But having both on 
the same form kind of enforced a one-to-one mapping, and it's really a 
many-to-many mapping: one person might propose multiple talks, and one 
talk might have multiple presenters.? Overall this should be less 
complicated.)

You can find links to *both* forms on the official Python Language 
Summit 2018 page:
https://us.pycon.org/2018/events/language-summit/


A few notes:

  * There will be lightning talks!? Signups will only be available
    during the Language Summit itself.
  * You don?t need to be registered for PyCon in order to attend the summit!
  * We?ll have badge ribbons for Language Summit participants, which
    we?ll hand out at the summit room in the morning.
  * We're inviting Jake Edge from Linux Weekly News to attend the summit
    and provide press coverage again.? Jake?s done a phenomenal job of
    covering the last few summits, providing valuable information not
    just for summit attendees, but also for the Python community at
    large.? Jake?s coverage goes a long way toward demystifying the
    summit, while remaining respectful of confidential information
    that?s deemed ?off the record? ahead of time by participants.


One big final note (please read this!):

    When using Google Forms, you /can/ edit your responses later!? When
    you fill out the form and hit Submit, the submission complete page
    (the one that says "Thanks for playing!") will have a link on it
    labeled "Edit your response". BOOKMARK THIS LINK!? You can use this
    link at /any time/ to edit your response, up to the point that
    signups close on April 18th.? Keep in mind, you'll need to bookmark
    each response independently: once for signing up to attend ("Request
    For Invitation"), and once for each talk proposal you submit. Again,
    /please/ be sure to save this bookmark yourself--we don't know how
    to find the link for you later if you don't save it.


We hope to see you at the summit!


[BL]arry
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From larry at hastings.org  Wed Apr 11 12:23:13 2018
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:23:13 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Reminder: 2018 Python Language Summit signups
 close next week
Message-ID: <0c45559d-bdcd-376a-056a-7718708707b5@hastings.org>



The deadline is a week from today, April 18th 2018.? Original 
announcement below.

--


It?s that time again: time to start thinking about the Python Language 
Summit!? The 2018 summit will be held on Wednesday, May 9, from 10am to 
4pm, at the Huntington Convention Center in Cleveland, Ohio, USA.? Your 
befezzled and befuddled hosts Barry and Larry will once more be behind 
the big desk in front.

The summit?s purpose is to disseminate information and spark 
conversation among core Python developers.? It?s our yearly opportunity 
to get together for an in-person discussion, to review interesting 
developments of the previous year and hash out where we?re going next.? 
And we have lots to talk about! 3.7 is in beta, and we've all 
collectively started work on 3.8 too.

As before, we?re using Google Forms to collect signups.? Signups are 
open now; the deadline to sign up is Wednesday April 18th, 2018 (AoE).? 
Please do us a favor and sign up sooner rather than later.? The signup 
form is simpler this year--I bet most people can be done in less than 
two minutes!

One difference from last year: there are now *two* forms.? The first 
form is for signing up to attend (the "Request For Invitation" form), 
and the second form is for proposing a talk. Please note: if you want to 
present, you still need to fill out the Request For Invitation form 
too.? (Yes, it's more complicated this way, sorry.? But having both on 
the same form kind of enforced a one-to-one mapping, and it's really a 
many-to-many mapping: one person might propose multiple talks, and one 
talk might have multiple presenters.? Overall this should be less 
complicated.)

You can find links to *both* forms on the official Python Language 
Summit 2018 page:
https://us.pycon.org/2018/events/language-summit/


A few notes:

  * There will be lightning talks!? Signups will only be available
    during the Language Summit itself.
  * You don?t need to be registered for PyCon in order to attend the summit!
  * We?ll have badge ribbons for Language Summit participants, which
    we?ll hand out at the summit room in the morning.
  * We're inviting Jake Edge from Linux Weekly News to attend the summit
    and provide press coverage again.? Jake?s done a phenomenal job of
    covering the last few summits, providing valuable information not
    just for summit attendees, but also for the Python community at
    large.? Jake?s coverage goes a long way toward demystifying the
    summit, while remaining respectful of confidential information
    that?s deemed ?off the record? ahead of time by participants.


One big final note (please read this!):

    When using Google Forms, you /can/ edit your responses later!? When
    you fill out the form and hit Submit, the submission complete page
    (the one that says "Thanks for playing!") will have a link on it
    labeled "Edit your response".? BOOKMARK THIS LINK!? You can use this
    link at /any time/ to edit your response, up to the point that
    signups close on April 18th.? Keep in mind, you'll need to bookmark
    each response independently: once for signing up to attend ("Request
    For Invitation"), and once for each talk proposal you submit.?
    Again, /please/ be sure to save this bookmark yourself--we don't
    know how to find the link for you later if you don't save it.


We hope to see you at the summit!


[BL]arry
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 08:13:49 2018
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 22:13:49 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
 developer
Message-ID: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
focusing on extension module imports.

Petr was the primary designer & implementer for the accepted PEP 489
multi-phase extension module initialisation PEP, and has continued to
work on changes related to that while mentoring Marcel Plch in the
development of PEP 547 (which will get extension modules to the point
where they can even support execution with the -m switch).

When an import system issue specifically related to extension modules
gets brought to my attention, I'll typically add Petr to the nosy list
to request his opinion.

Regards,
Nick.

P.S. While bringing on another extension module import system
maintainer is my primary motivation for nominating him, I'll also note
that Petr's also long been my primary point of contact for advice on
CPython integration into Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS (he's the current
Python maintenance team lead at Red Hat), and he also has a lot of
practical Python 2->3 porting experience (as a result of coordinating
much of the migration effort for Fedora and RHEL, including leading
the creation of
https://portingguide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html )

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From brett at python.org  Fri Apr 13 13:05:28 2018
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 17:05:28 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4u2AftAWd8cGGHnGsX-9VeT-Rxk6fD9DDPvSuaqn1BWg@mail.gmail.com>

Just to add my vote, I too typically pull in Petr whenever I get pulled
into an extension module import issue since he and Nick know that part of
import way better than I do. :)

On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 at 05:14 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
> focusing on extension module imports.
>
> Petr was the primary designer & implementer for the accepted PEP 489
> multi-phase extension module initialisation PEP, and has continued to
> work on changes related to that while mentoring Marcel Plch in the
> development of PEP 547 (which will get extension modules to the point
> where they can even support execution with the -m switch).
>
> When an import system issue specifically related to extension modules
> gets brought to my attention, I'll typically add Petr to the nosy list
> to request his opinion.
>
> Regards,
> Nick.
>
> P.S. While bringing on another extension module import system
> maintainer is my primary motivation for nominating him, I'll also note
> that Petr's also long been my primary point of contact for advice on
> CPython integration into Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS (he's the current
> Python maintenance team lead at Red Hat), and he also has a lot of
> practical Python 2->3 porting experience (as a result of coordinating
> much of the migration effort for Fedora and RHEL, including leading
> the creation of
> https://portingguide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html )
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From barry at python.org  Fri Apr 13 14:17:52 2018
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 11:17:52 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19B977A8-4C17-46A6-87AC-447D810EE417@python.org>

On Apr 13, 2018, at 05:13, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
> focusing on extension module imports.

+1

-Barry

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From willingc at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 14:23:58 2018
From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 11:23:58 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <19B977A8-4C17-46A6-87AC-447D810EE417@python.org>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <19B977A8-4C17-46A6-87AC-447D810EE417@python.org>
Message-ID: <56B223FC-E4FA-4A80-A9E6-C4ACE6D41026@gmail.com>



> On Apr 13, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> 
> On Apr 13, 2018, at 05:13, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
>> focusing on extension module imports.
> 
> +1
> 
> -Barry
> 

+1

Carol

> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/


From yselivanov.ml at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 16:42:39 2018
From: yselivanov.ml at gmail.com (Yury Selivanov)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 16:42:39 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+St6D1HHazBSPM-qQDJbKACZr7RRy=-0YRO7tWuFKmrSeAt+A@mail.gmail.com>

+1.

Yury

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
> focusing on extension module imports.
>
> Petr was the primary designer & implementer for the accepted PEP 489
> multi-phase extension module initialisation PEP, and has continued to
> work on changes related to that while mentoring Marcel Plch in the
> development of PEP 547 (which will get extension modules to the point
> where they can even support execution with the -m switch).
>
> When an import system issue specifically related to extension modules
> gets brought to my attention, I'll typically add Petr to the nosy list
> to request his opinion.
>
> Regards,
> Nick.
>
> P.S. While bringing on another extension module import system
> maintainer is my primary motivation for nominating him, I'll also note
> that Petr's also long been my primary point of contact for advice on
> CPython integration into Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS (he's the current
> Python maintenance team lead at Red Hat), and he also has a lot of
> practical Python 2->3 porting experience (as a result of coordinating
> much of the migration effort for Fedora and RHEL, including leading
> the creation of
> https://portingguide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html )
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

From brett at python.org  Fri Apr 13 16:53:58 2018
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 20:53:58 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Experimenting with a Zulip instance for Python
 core development
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W5EpmwzAj+1CSs5kyYQM6YaLgQkTWYZv-hqoxRkZ5rBuw@mail.gmail.com>

Over on core-workflow we decided to try out Zulip as a "more
hyper-interactive email" way to communicate (at least that's how Guido
phrased it :) . We have set up https://python.zulipchat.com/ for *just*
Python core development discussion (i.e. this is not for general Python
support). People so far seem to be enjoying it and so I'm ready to open it
up to a bit more by announcing it here (and if this goes well then I will
announce on python-dev).

Now this is just an experiment and we still expect any important decisions
that need to be discussed with everyone to happen here or on python-dev
(e.g. see INADA-san's recent email about PyUnicode field deprecations which
started over on Zulip but was brought over to email for wider discussion).
This is also not officially part of the Python core team's communication
channels like this mailing list, python-dev, or #python-dev is. But if this
experiment does work out well then we will discuss over on core-workflow
(and on Zulip ;) about making this more official.

Do note that the instance is rather open so you can create new streams and
add bots as desired. We already have bots set up for all commits, build
failures, and deployments of Bedevere and the Knights Who Say Ni (Mariatta
will probably set up Miss Islington when she gets back from her break).

Anyway, feel free to log in and give it a try!
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From christian at python.org  Fri Apr 13 17:32:03 2018
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 23:32:03 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eedd492d-c48c-e808-9d57-6c8f3c72df40@python.org>

On 2018-04-13 14:13, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
> focusing on extension module imports.

+1

I know him personally from work. He is a good engineer and responsible guy.

Christian

From raymond.hettinger at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 18:56:55 2018
From: raymond.hettinger at gmail.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 15:56:55 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC8CDEA7-99F5-4B9D-BA53-4EE993BC7B45@gmail.com>



> On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
> focusing on extension module imports.

+1 This is an area that could use more attention from someone who really cares about it.


Raymond


From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 21:40:36 2018
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 19:40:36 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CC8CDEA7-99F5-4B9D-BA53-4EE993BC7B45@gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CC8CDEA7-99F5-4B9D-BA53-4EE993BC7B45@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7CLO-7AGXM3pSpCZ73Vhk3vxMpMPUcbZ0JBjQw3djn1WQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1

-eric

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Raymond Hettinger
<raymond.hettinger at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
>> focusing on extension module imports.
>
> +1 This is an area that could use more attention from someone who really cares about it.
>
>
> Raymond
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

From mal at egenix.com  Sat Apr 14 03:04:21 2018
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 09:04:21 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist
 core developer
In-Reply-To: <CALFfu7CLO-7AGXM3pSpCZ73Vhk3vxMpMPUcbZ0JBjQw3djn1WQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7cycQ9RK2MryMNKM7QzEamiOnKyPuz2as6GBPkQ7pX=RQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CC8CDEA7-99F5-4B9D-BA53-4EE993BC7B45@gmail.com>
 <CALFfu7CLO-7AGXM3pSpCZ73Vhk3vxMpMPUcbZ0JBjQw3djn1WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a3b06cf2-8922-a7bd-2ed4-3f04e8df41a7@egenix.com>

+1

On 14.04.2018 03:40, Eric Snow wrote:
> +1
> 
> -eric
> 
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Raymond Hettinger
> <raymond.hettinger at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer,
>>> focusing on extension module imports.
>>
>> +1 This is an area that could use more attention from someone who really cares about it.
>>
>>
>> Raymond
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Apr 14 2018)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From storchaka at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 12:16:01 2018
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 19:16:01 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports
Message-ID: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>

miss-islington is an awesome bot! It makes fixing bugs in multiple 
versions much simpler. You need just accept automatically created 
backporting PRs.

But there is a downside. miss-islington makes the life so easier, that 
sometimes you forgot about not finished backports. miss-islington can 
fail to backport some changes for different reasons. Currently on GitHub 
there are tens merged PRs labeled for backporting, but backports were 
not finished. Please take attention if your PRs in one of the following 
lists:

https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.7%22+is%3Aclosed

https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Aclosed

https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Aclosed


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 22 14:27:16 2018
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:27:16 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports
In-Reply-To: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>

On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> miss-islington is an awesome bot! It makes fixing bugs in multiple 
> versions much simpler. You need just accept automatically created 
> backporting PRs.
> 
> But there is a downside. miss-islington makes the life so easier, that 
> sometimes you forgot about not finished backports. miss-islington can 
> fail to backport some changes for different reasons. Currently on GitHub 
> there are tens merged PRs labeled for backporting, but backports were 
> not finished. Please take attention if your PRs in one of the following 
> lists:

Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who 
have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this 
case, those whose have done particular merges)?

> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.7%22+is%3Aclosed 

> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Aclosed 

Several of these were closed without merging and should not and cannot 
be backported.  For instance, you closed
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/4225
after you submitted and merged a replacement.
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6259

Stripping backport labels off of rejected PRs could be considered.  But 
this would toss information needed for a new PR if the bpo issue is 
open.  Expecting either the submitter or merged of a replacement to go 
back and clean up the original seems a bit much.  The submitter might 
not be able to, and the merger might not know or forget that the PR is a 
replacement.  Perhaps rejected PRs should just be ignored.

Replacing 'closed' with 'merged' excludes rejected PRs.

https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Amerged

> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Aclosed 

https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Amerged

The 2.7 backport of https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3639
is yours.

tjr


From storchaka at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 06:19:46 2018
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:19:46 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports
In-Reply-To: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>
References: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <pbkbrv$4li$1@blaine.gmane.org>

22.04.18 21:27, Terry Reedy ????:
> Replacing 'closed' with 'merged' excludes rejected PRs.

Thank you, this gives cleaner result.

> The 2.7 backport of https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3639
> is yours.

I thought you taken it.


From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 10:39:40 2018
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 00:39:40 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
Message-ID: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now
granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
this mailing list.

Welcome, Petr! :)

Cheers,
Nick.

P.S. When adjusting the nosy list on the issue tracker, you'll find
there's also a new "extension modules" topic, which can be selected to
subscribe both Petr and I to the issue :)

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 10:58:58 2018
From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:58:58 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFfu7DuZvffJQ7mKMxh+KGwuJzi181hoXhswV15-vAQCh11Yg@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome, Petr!

-eric

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 08:39 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
> and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now
> granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
> this mailing list.
>
> Welcome, Petr! :)
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> P.S. When adjusting the nosy list on the issue tracker, you'll find
> there's also a new "extension modules" topic, which can be selected to
> subscribe both Petr and I to the issue :)
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Apr 23 11:43:48 2018
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 08:43:48 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ADDFF34.7030001@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/23/2018 07:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
> and no concerns being raised,

Where did this conversation take place?  I see no record of it here nor on the Zulip Chat channels.

> I'm happy to report that Brett has now
> granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
> this mailing list.
>
> Welcome, Petr! :)

Yes, welcome, Petr!

--
~Ethan~


From christian at python.org  Mon Apr 23 12:37:31 2018
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 18:37:31 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <5ADDFF34.7030001@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5ADDFF34.7030001@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <5f12fd5e-141c-4904-27f9-190a377e3922@python.org>

On 2018-04-23 17:43, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/23/2018 07:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> 
>> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
>> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
>> and no concerns being raised,
> 
> Where did this conversation take place?? I see no record of it here nor
> on the Zulip Chat channels.

We discussed the matter 10 days ago on this very mailing list,
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-April/005276.html

>> I'm happy to report that Brett has now
>> granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
>> this mailing list.
>>
>> Welcome, Petr! :)
> 
> Yes, welcome, Petr!

Welcome! :)

Christian

From brett at python.org  Mon Apr 23 12:47:31 2018
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:47:31 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports
In-Reply-To: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>
References: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7DGf-ozQ=ZBSAxYq1VgMeDJ9vkbm4tEDB505Xjn_UG9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> > miss-islington is an awesome bot! It makes fixing bugs in multiple
> > versions much simpler. You need just accept automatically created
> > backporting PRs.
> >
> > But there is a downside. miss-islington makes the life so easier, that
> > sometimes you forgot about not finished backports. miss-islington can
> > fail to backport some changes for different reasons. Currently on GitHub
> > there are tens merged PRs labeled for backporting, but backports were
> > not finished. Please take attention if your PRs in one of the following
> > lists:
>
> Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who
> have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this
> case, those whose have done particular merges)?
>

No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email
address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment.

-Brett


>
> >
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.7%22+is%3Aclosed
>
> >
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Aclosed
>
> Several of these were closed without merging and should not and cannot
> be backported.  For instance, you closed
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/4225
> after you submitted and merged a replacement.
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6259
>
> Stripping backport labels off of rejected PRs could be considered.  But
> this would toss information needed for a new PR if the bpo issue is
> open.  Expecting either the submitter or merged of a replacement to go
> back and clean up the original seems a bit much.  The submitter might
> not be able to, and the merger might not know or forget that the PR is a
> replacement.  Perhaps rejected PRs should just be ignored.
>
> Replacing 'closed' with 'merged' excludes rejected PRs.
>
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Amerged
>
> >
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Aclosed
>
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Amerged
>
> The 2.7 backport of https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3639
> is yours.
>
> tjr
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From antoine at python.org  Mon Apr 23 14:45:40 2018
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 20:45:40 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b5876c1c-7832-6793-b949-75dbc205bb72@python.org>


Le 23/04/2018 ? 16:39, Nick Coghlan a ?crit?:
> Hi folks,
> 
> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
> and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now
> granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
> this mailing list.

Welcome Petr!  You have a lot of gruesome work ahead ;-)
(just kidding: I'm sure you'll have fun on the way)

Regards

Antoine.

From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Apr 23 16:08:47 2018
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:08:47 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] missing email thread [was: Welcoming Petr ...]
Message-ID: <5ADE3D4F.3040902@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/23/2018 09:37 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:> On 2018-04-23 17:43, Ethan Furman wrote:
 >> On 04/23/2018 07:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

 >>> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
 >>> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
 >>> and no concerns being raised,
 >>
 >> Where did this conversation take place?  I see no record of it here nor
 >> on the Zulip Chat channels.
 >
 > We discussed the matter 10 days ago on this very mailing list,
 > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-April/005276.html

Huh.  I keep 30 days worth of email for Python-Committers but I don't have that thread.

If anybody has any ideas on what might have happened I'd love to hear them!  I use Thunderbird on Ubuntu 12.  (I'm 
pretty sure I didn't delete the thread. ;) )

--
~Ethan~

From willingc at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 23:52:25 2018
From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 20:52:25 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <b5876c1c-7832-6793-b949-75dbc205bb72@python.org>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <b5876c1c-7832-6793-b949-75dbc205bb72@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAM3Vvhwuccyvq3WJD8zxF2Kg43nO3R1kqOUFRhkwf6CeY5jt6g@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome Petr :D We're glad to have you on board.

Warmly,

Carol

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 11:45 AM, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Le 23/04/2018 ? 16:39, Nick Coghlan a ?crit :
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
> > developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
> > and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now
> > granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
> > this mailing list.
>
> Welcome Petr!  You have a lot of gruesome work ahead ;-)
> (just kidding: I'm sure you'll have fun on the way)
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
*Carol Willing*

Research Software Engineer
Project Jupyter at Cal Poly SLO

cawillin at calpoly.edu

*Signature strengths*
*Empathy - Relator - Ideation - Strategic - Learner*
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From vstinner at redhat.com  Tue Apr 24 05:05:11 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 11:05:11 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <CAM3Vvhwuccyvq3WJD8zxF2Kg43nO3R1kqOUFRhkwf6CeY5jt6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <b5876c1c-7832-6793-b949-75dbc205bb72@python.org>
 <CAM3Vvhwuccyvq3WJD8zxF2Kg43nO3R1kqOUFRhkwf6CeY5jt6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHpTpUqCeiuZGR9LVyWgpuGYZER6SMT9OHvj2suJScpRA@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats Petr, welcome aboard!

Victor

From storchaka at gmail.com  Tue Apr 24 05:59:01 2018
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:59:01 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7DGf-ozQ=ZBSAxYq1VgMeDJ9vkbm4tEDB505Xjn_UG9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>
 <CAP1=2W7DGf-ozQ=ZBSAxYq1VgMeDJ9vkbm4tEDB505Xjn_UG9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48cb8f3c-59c0-ad20-33b7-a78cb557b805@gmail.com>

23.04.18 19:47, Brett Cannon ????:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu 
> <mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to
>     people who
>     have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in
>     this
>     case, those whose have done particular merges)?
>
>
> No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email 
> address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment.

Aren't all active committer subscribed to this mailing list?

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From kushaldas at gmail.com  Tue Apr 24 11:25:02 2018
From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 08:25:02 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core
 developer :)
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7c0GnHyaqFPnVxuanXFAz0Fh0gQS2nK-+o2GfUd3dUiGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAzeMbyVWLUYKPP+WMMvCqdszZun-oZ9Kwp95TjmDmfoM4pGcw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core
> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's
> and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now
> granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and
> this mailing list.
>
> Welcome, Petr! :)

Welcome on board :)

Kushal

From brett at python.org  Tue Apr 24 11:57:37 2018
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:57:37 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports
In-Reply-To: <48cb8f3c-59c0-ad20-33b7-a78cb557b805@gmail.com>
References: <pbicbu$u3r$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu>
 <CAP1=2W7DGf-ozQ=ZBSAxYq1VgMeDJ9vkbm4tEDB505Xjn_UG9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <48cb8f3c-59c0-ad20-33b7-a78cb557b805@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4yWu5ZsrZcmAjo=Q91_2nDFuaiCh=B6f90MSjz3YaReg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 at 02:59 Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com> wrote:

> 23.04.18 19:47, Brett Cannon ????:
>
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>> Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who
>> have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this
>> case, those whose have done particular merges)?
>>
>
> No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email
> address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment.
>
>
> Aren't all active committer subscribed to this mailing list?
>

They should be. Doesn't mean they pay attention to it. ;)

-Brett
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From vstinner at redhat.com  Thu Apr 26 07:02:15 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:02:15 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572?
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more
and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular?
Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails
becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP.

I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list,
using mbox archives available at:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/

My script:
https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py

In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21.

In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the
start of the chaos:

...
2018-04-17: 27
2018-04-18: 20
2018-04-19: 11
2018-04-20: 36
2018-04-21: 36
2018-04-22: 31
2018-04-23: 32
2018-04-24: 72
2018-04-25: 76
2018-04-26: 23
2018-04-27: 10

Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!?

I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to
python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are
answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other
emails sent the same day.

I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still
discussing arguments in polite way?

How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply
immediately but instead try to listen to the other people?

IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I
wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and
then on python-dev. We are now turning around.

Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the
PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion.

I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would
get too many replies on python-dev ...

Victor

From vstinner at redhat.com  Thu Apr 26 10:12:02 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:12:02 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams?
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFTXK=6U-23e23wM5UBv6xR4ONSzyE6zYb0-b66O0ZGnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

While thinking about how to get more contributors onboard, I
identified that one bottleneck is building trust. Currently, a vote to
promote a contributor as a core dev requires the approval of almost
all active core developers, and this list is quite large (50 people?
more?). It takes a lot of time until a contributor is known by enough
people to start the process to promote them as a core dev.

My idea is to create subteams which would have less permission than
"everything": restrict changes to specific directories. It seems like
in practice, we already have such subteams: Documentation, IDLE and
asyncio have a dedicated Component in the bug tracker, their own
directories, a group of people focused on these components, and
even... a dedicated mailing list!

The restriction would be the ability to merge a pull request. Since
miss-ilington recently got the power of merging a PR, it makes me
think that it's doable to allow "non core" people to merge a change
under certain conditions. For example, let's say that a contributor
called "Alice" is part of a subteam. If Alice approves a change in the
review, added the "approved" label and the CI pass: a bot can merge
the change, since Alice is allowed to merge a PR modifying specific
directories.If Alice doesn't have the power, the bot may notice Alice
that she lacks permission and the bot may remove the label.

IMHO it's better to have two steps to merge: approval in the review
and a label, sometimes a change looks good but should not be merged
yet, or you don't want to take the responsibility to merge it
yourself.

What about current core developers? No change for them, they keep
their "super power" to modify everything.

If a member of a subteam shows interest to do more than only working
in a subteam, the usual promotion process with a vote on
python-committers can be followed.

My expectation is that it will be faster to promote a contributor into
a subteam. It's easier to trust someone if they is only allowed to
modify some directories. In my experience, people with the same
interest find their way to meet other people working on the same
topic. The trust is built naturally in a component.

You may see a parallel with the Linux kernel hierarchy and Linux
subsystems, but the proposed organization is different. In Python, the
tradition is that everybody works in the same repository. I don't want
to change that.

What do you think? Do you like the idea of subteams? Is it feasible
(the label and the bot things)?

I identified 3 obvious subteams:

* Documentation
* IDLE
* asyncio

Maybe you see more candidates?

Victor

From yselivanov.ml at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 10:31:46 2018
From: yselivanov.ml at gmail.com (Yury Selivanov)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:31:46 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams?
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFTXK=6U-23e23wM5UBv6xR4ONSzyE6zYb0-b66O0ZGnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFTXK=6U-23e23wM5UBv6xR4ONSzyE6zYb0-b66O0ZGnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+St6D09+6juu1_rHkeVByKTf9Sn_3NSDF3kEpVWKJ2aaPFOjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:12 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
[..]
> I identified 3 obvious subteams:

> * Documentation
> * IDLE
> * asyncio

Sorry, asyncio isn't an obvious choice for me. There are not so many
low-hanging fruits left in asyncio except improvements to its
documentation. I'm a firm -1 to allow people to merge without Andrew's or
my review at this point, almost no PRs are fine when they are submitted
(including our own). There's a lot of complexity in asyncio which isn't
immediately evident to people who are not working with its internals on a
daily basis.

Now, people who report and submit asyncio PRs seem to do that just fine
without subteams. Although it's rare to see people contributing more than
once, but that's not an asyncio-specific pattern, I see it in every big and
complex project I happen to contribute to.  Even having a dedicated asyncio
mailing list doesn't help to get people to contribute to asyncio more
frequently.

Don't get me wrong, Andrew and I would certainly welcome any help we can
get, but I'd be against running a public experiment with asyncio to see if
2 of us can handle the management of the new sub-teams idea.  Unfortunately
2 of us just don't have capacity for that.

Please pick another project for your idea. Maybe we should try it for
documentation first, where we have a lot of core devs who can help with PR
reviews and management of "subteams".

Yury

From vstinner at redhat.com  Thu Apr 26 10:38:56 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:38:56 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams?
In-Reply-To: <CA+St6D09+6juu1_rHkeVByKTf9Sn_3NSDF3kEpVWKJ2aaPFOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFTXK=6U-23e23wM5UBv6xR4ONSzyE6zYb0-b66O0ZGnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+St6D09+6juu1_rHkeVByKTf9Sn_3NSDF3kEpVWKJ2aaPFOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGEbvktTz6X9k4kYxQXeLHWCwTDE=qNfYnYt7Wkd9yZ6VQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, maybe asyncio is not a good candidate to experiment. I know that
asyncio internals are complex, and asynchronous programming is hard.

Sure, the risk of regression in the Documentation is lower :-) But it
doesn't mean that we should accept any change in the doc. I already
saw people proposing to fix the doc, whereas they misunderstood
something and the doc was plain right :-)

Victor

2018-04-26 16:31 GMT+02:00 Yury Selivanov <yselivanov.ml at gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:12 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> [..]
>> I identified 3 obvious subteams:
>
>> * Documentation
>> * IDLE
>> * asyncio
>
> Sorry, asyncio isn't an obvious choice for me. There are not so many
> low-hanging fruits left in asyncio except improvements to its
> documentation. I'm a firm -1 to allow people to merge without Andrew's or
> my review at this point, almost no PRs are fine when they are submitted
> (including our own). There's a lot of complexity in asyncio which isn't
> immediately evident to people who are not working with its internals on a
> daily basis.
>
> Now, people who report and submit asyncio PRs seem to do that just fine
> without subteams. Although it's rare to see people contributing more than
> once, but that's not an asyncio-specific pattern, I see it in every big and
> complex project I happen to contribute to.  Even having a dedicated asyncio
> mailing list doesn't help to get people to contribute to asyncio more
> frequently.
>
> Don't get me wrong, Andrew and I would certainly welcome any help we can
> get, but I'd be against running a public experiment with asyncio to see if
> 2 of us can handle the management of the new sub-teams idea.  Unfortunately
> 2 of us just don't have capacity for that.
>
> Please pick another project for your idea. Maybe we should try it for
> documentation first, where we have a lot of core devs who can help with PR
> reviews and management of "subteams".
>
> Yury

From guido at python.org  Thu Apr 26 11:03:14 2018
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:03:14 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP
 572?
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJ+F0qhBs3BjzF5hPMDjz10kDrqJu=mvYCOSE_z2DfvLOw@mail.gmail.com>

The way to calm discussions is to stop responding.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:02 AM, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more
> and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular?
> Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails
> becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP.
>
> I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list,
> using mbox archives available at:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/
>
> My script:
> https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py
>
> In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21.
>
> In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the
> start of the chaos:
>
> ...
> 2018-04-17: 27
> 2018-04-18: 20
> 2018-04-19: 11
> 2018-04-20: 36
> 2018-04-21: 36
> 2018-04-22: 31
> 2018-04-23: 32
> 2018-04-24: 72
> 2018-04-25: 76
> 2018-04-26: 23
> 2018-04-27: 10
>
> Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!?
>
> I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to
> python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are
> answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other
> emails sent the same day.
>
> I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still
> discussing arguments in polite way?
>
> How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply
> immediately but instead try to listen to the other people?
>
> IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I
> wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and
> then on python-dev. We are now turning around.
>
> Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the
> PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion.
>
> I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would
> get too many replies on python-dev ...
>
> Victor
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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From vstinner at redhat.com  Thu Apr 26 11:10:01 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:10:01 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP
 572?
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGGbDG8r5=2HUqwCTAwQQrLEVkwp3TBA04Qoxy8Pw9wH1g@mail.gmail.com>

I computed stats since January 2017:

2017-01: Total: 220 msg; avg: 7.6 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-01-18
2017-02: Total: 191 msg; avg: 7.1 msg/day; max: 27 msg at 2017-02-24
2017-03: Total: 240 msg; avg: 8.0 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-03-03
2017-04: Total: 79 msg; avg: 3.0 msg/day; max: 9 msg at 2017-04-21
2017-05: Total: 281 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 26 msg at 2017-05-24
2017-06: Total: 426 msg; avg: 14.2 msg/day; max: 80 msg at 2017-06-01
2017-07: Total: 253 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 41 msg at 2017-07-17
2017-08: Total: 326 msg; avg: 12.5 msg/day; max: 40 msg at 2017-08-29
2017-09: Total: 548 msg; avg: 19.6 msg/day; max: 84 msg at 2017-09-06
2017-10: Total: 402 msg; avg: 14.4 msg/day; max: 49 msg at 2017-10-02
2017-11: Total: 942 msg; avg: 31.4 msg/day; max: 96 msg at 2017-11-06
2017-12: Total: 536 msg; avg: 17.3 msg/day; max: 67 msg at 2017-12-15
2018-01: Total: 504 msg; avg: 16.8 msg/day; max: 42 msg at 2018-01-05
2018-02: Total: 286 msg; avg: 11.9 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-02-21
2018-03: Total: 246 msg; avg: 8.8 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-03-29
2018-04: Total: 523 msg; avg: 20.9 msg/day; max: 97 msg at 2018-04-24

April 2018 is not yet the worst :-) November 2017 was an interesting month!

Victor

From antoine at python.org  Thu Apr 26 11:13:05 2018
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:13:05 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP
 572?
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGGbDG8r5=2HUqwCTAwQQrLEVkwp3TBA04Qoxy8Pw9wH1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGbDG8r5=2HUqwCTAwQQrLEVkwp3TBA04Qoxy8Pw9wH1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org>


Obviously, the issue is less the number of messages per month than the
fact that most of them are about a single proposal :-)

Regards

Antoine.


Le 26/04/2018 ? 17:10, Victor Stinner a ?crit?:
> I computed stats since January 2017:
> 
> 2017-01: Total: 220 msg; avg: 7.6 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-01-18
> 2017-02: Total: 191 msg; avg: 7.1 msg/day; max: 27 msg at 2017-02-24
> 2017-03: Total: 240 msg; avg: 8.0 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-03-03
> 2017-04: Total: 79 msg; avg: 3.0 msg/day; max: 9 msg at 2017-04-21
> 2017-05: Total: 281 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 26 msg at 2017-05-24
> 2017-06: Total: 426 msg; avg: 14.2 msg/day; max: 80 msg at 2017-06-01
> 2017-07: Total: 253 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 41 msg at 2017-07-17
> 2017-08: Total: 326 msg; avg: 12.5 msg/day; max: 40 msg at 2017-08-29
> 2017-09: Total: 548 msg; avg: 19.6 msg/day; max: 84 msg at 2017-09-06
> 2017-10: Total: 402 msg; avg: 14.4 msg/day; max: 49 msg at 2017-10-02
> 2017-11: Total: 942 msg; avg: 31.4 msg/day; max: 96 msg at 2017-11-06
> 2017-12: Total: 536 msg; avg: 17.3 msg/day; max: 67 msg at 2017-12-15
> 2018-01: Total: 504 msg; avg: 16.8 msg/day; max: 42 msg at 2018-01-05
> 2018-02: Total: 286 msg; avg: 11.9 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-02-21
> 2018-03: Total: 246 msg; avg: 8.8 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-03-29
> 2018-04: Total: 523 msg; avg: 20.9 msg/day; max: 97 msg at 2018-04-24
> 
> April 2018 is not yet the worst :-) November 2017 was an interesting month!
> 
> Victor
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From vstinner at redhat.com  Thu Apr 26 11:25:29 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:25:29 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP
 572?
In-Reply-To: <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org>
References: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGbDG8r5=2HUqwCTAwQQrLEVkwp3TBA04Qoxy8Pw9wH1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFXD0b0tbj0_g3aui5mmbNAHWVLzPfoDH71wRF7j3pchA@mail.gmail.com>

2018-04-26 17:13 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org>:
> Obviously, the issue is less the number of messages per month than the
> fact that most of them are about a single proposal :-)

Ok, I did statistics on emails with a subject which contains exactly
"PEP xxx", since January 2017 to today. I'm not sure that it's
reliable, since some people don't write "PEP xxx" in the subject.

vstinner at apu$ ./parse_mailman_mbox2.py 201*txt
PEP 550: 284 msg
PEP 572: 243 msg
PEP 557: 176 msg
PEP 567: 151 msg
PEP 553: 78 msg
PEP 538: 76 msg
PEP 563: 75 msg
PEP 554: 73 msg
PEP 540: 62 msg
PEP 552: 56 msg
PEP 565: 49 msg
PEP 564: 46 msg
PEP 549: 43 msg
PEP 560: 40 msg
PEP 544: 40 msg
PEP 505: 38 msg
PEP 561: 31 msg
PEP 484: 25 msg
PEP 467: 25 msg
PEP 562: 24 msg
PEP 559: 23 msg
PEP 370: 23 msg
PEP 574: 16 msg
PEP 526: 15 msg
PEP 575: 14 msg
PEP 556: 13 msg
PEP 545: 12 msg
PEP 539: 12 msg
PEP 573: 11 msg
PEP 551: 11 msg
PEP 448: 11 msg
PEP 548: 10 msg
PEP 103: 10 msg
PEP 489: 8 msg
PEP 511: 7 msg
PEP 523: 6 msg
PEP 543: 5 msg
PEP 432: 5 msg
PEP 510: 4 msg
PEP 530: 3 msg
PEP 490: 3 msg
PEP 393: 3 msg
PEP 541: 2 msg
PEP 479: 2 msg
PEP 442: 2 msg
PEP 568: 1 msg
PEP 394: 1 msg

Total: 1868 msg; avg: 39.7 msg/PEP

According to my tool, Yury Selivanov holds the current record with the
PEP 550 and 284 emails :-) Especially if you add the 151 messages of
the PEP 567. (Where is the PEP 555 in my list?)

Victor

From willingc at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 11:32:07 2018
From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:32:07 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP
 572?
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJ+F0qhBs3BjzF5hPMDjz10kDrqJu=mvYCOSE_z2DfvLOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7+vJ+F0qhBs3BjzF5hPMDjz10kDrqJu=mvYCOSE_z2DfvLOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <891BD98F-B646-4B6A-BE05-93C0DEA39A02@gmail.com>


> On Apr 26, 2018, at 8:03 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org <mailto:guido at python.org>> wrote:
> 
> The way to calm discussions is to stop responding.

Hi Victor,

In the gentlest way that I know how, I commend you for considering the impact that emails have on PEP writers especially when "dogpiling" (i.e. folks jumping in without anything new to add to the discussion on a controversial issue). People are hard :( and wonderful :)

In my experience, people's actions (as Guido mentions) do more to calm things than technology. One slippery slope with a technical solution is that people then begin to game the technical system. Responding calmly, staying on topic by addressing the approach not the PEP writer, seeking to work toward a better solution than shooting down an idea, and slowing your response time are ways to calm things down and improve productivity. These concepts are well proven by the Harvard Negotiation project.

One constructive thing that we can do is to put yourself in the shoes of the PEP writer before pressing "send" and consider how you might "feel" if you received the message that you are about to send.

Warmly,

Carol


> 
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:02 AM, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com <mailto:vstinner at redhat.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more
> and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular?
> Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails
> becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP.
> 
> I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list,
> using mbox archives available at:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/>
> 
> My script:
> https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py <https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py>
> 
> In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21.
> 
> In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the
> start of the chaos:
> 
> ...
> 2018-04-17: 27
> 2018-04-18: 20
> 2018-04-19: 11
> 2018-04-20: 36
> 2018-04-21: 36
> 2018-04-22: 31
> 2018-04-23: 32
> 2018-04-24: 72
> 2018-04-25: 76
> 2018-04-26: 23
> 2018-04-27: 10
> 
> Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!?
> 
> I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to
> python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are
> answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other
> emails sent the same day.
> 
> I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still
> discussing arguments in polite way?
> 
> How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply
> immediately but instead try to listen to the other people?
> 
> IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I
> wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and
> then on python-dev. We are now turning around.
> 
> Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the
> PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion.
> 
> I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would
> get too many replies on python-dev ...
> 
> Victor
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers>
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido <http://python.org/~guido>)
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

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From vstinner at redhat.com  Thu Apr 26 11:32:24 2018
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:32:24 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP
 572?
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFXD0b0tbj0_g3aui5mmbNAHWVLzPfoDH71wRF7j3pchA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFDsjtXSQyqdjstwMVKdisJ_G5OYstTnqwbODF77Rggmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGbDG8r5=2HUqwCTAwQQrLEVkwp3TBA04Qoxy8Pw9wH1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org>
 <CA+3bQGFXD0b0tbj0_g3aui5mmbNAHWVLzPfoDH71wRF7j3pchA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHBnKA5MOsQ3hJj=LemU+N7jCoA4RCEMmkp248fjQxF5w@mail.gmail.com>

Ah sorry, results were surprising, so I did more stats including python-ideas.

"PEP 572: 662 msg" is now the obvious winner. Congrats Chris Angelico
for the new record!

python-dev + python-ideas, Jan 2017 - April 2018 :

vstinner at apu$ ./parse_mailman_mbox2.py python-dev/* python-ideas/*
PEP 572: 662 msg
PEP 550: 387 msg
PEP 557: 177 msg
PEP 567: 155 msg
PEP 540: 140 msg
PEP 554: 110 msg
PEP 563: 106 msg
PEP 505: 91 msg
PEP 538: 80 msg
PEP 553: 78 msg
PEP 560: 72 msg
PEP 552: 56 msg
PEP 565: 49 msg
PEP 562: 47 msg
PEP 564: 46 msg
PEP 549: 43 msg
PEP 561: 42 msg
PEP 544: 40 msg
PEP 484: 28 msg
PEP 467: 25 msg
PEP 526: 24 msg
PEP 559: 23 msg
PEP 370: 23 msg
PEP 574: 16 msg
PEP 575: 14 msg
PEP 556: 13 msg
PEP 573: 12 msg
PEP 545: 12 msg
PEP 539: 12 msg
PEP 551: 11 msg
PEP 448: 11 msg
PEP 548: 10 msg
PEP 447: 10 msg
PEP 103: 10 msg
PEP 506: 9 msg
PEP 489: 8 msg
PEP 555: 7 msg
PEP 511: 7 msg
PEP 523: 6 msg
PEP 543: 5 msg
PEP 432: 5 msg
PEP 510: 4 msg
PEP 530: 3 msg
PEP 490: 3 msg
PEP 393: 3 msg
PEP 541: 2 msg
PEP 479: 2 msg
PEP 468: 2 msg
PEP 442: 2 msg
PEP 568: 1 msg
PEP 394: 1 msg
Total: 2705 msg; avg: 53.0 msg/PEP

Victor

2018-04-26 17:25 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com>:
> 2018-04-26 17:13 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org>:
>> Obviously, the issue is less the number of messages per month than the
>> fact that most of them are about a single proposal :-)
>
> Ok, I did statistics on emails with a subject which contains exactly
> "PEP xxx", since January 2017 to today. I'm not sure that it's
> reliable, since some people don't write "PEP xxx" in the subject.
>
> vstinner at apu$ ./parse_mailman_mbox2.py 201*txt
> PEP 550: 284 msg
> PEP 572: 243 msg
> PEP 557: 176 msg
> PEP 567: 151 msg
> PEP 553: 78 msg
> PEP 538: 76 msg
> PEP 563: 75 msg
> PEP 554: 73 msg
> PEP 540: 62 msg
> PEP 552: 56 msg
> PEP 565: 49 msg
> PEP 564: 46 msg
> PEP 549: 43 msg
> PEP 560: 40 msg
> PEP 544: 40 msg
> PEP 505: 38 msg
> PEP 561: 31 msg
> PEP 484: 25 msg
> PEP 467: 25 msg
> PEP 562: 24 msg
> PEP 559: 23 msg
> PEP 370: 23 msg
> PEP 574: 16 msg
> PEP 526: 15 msg
> PEP 575: 14 msg
> PEP 556: 13 msg
> PEP 545: 12 msg
> PEP 539: 12 msg
> PEP 573: 11 msg
> PEP 551: 11 msg
> PEP 448: 11 msg
> PEP 548: 10 msg
> PEP 103: 10 msg
> PEP 489: 8 msg
> PEP 511: 7 msg
> PEP 523: 6 msg
> PEP 543: 5 msg
> PEP 432: 5 msg
> PEP 510: 4 msg
> PEP 530: 3 msg
> PEP 490: 3 msg
> PEP 393: 3 msg
> PEP 541: 2 msg
> PEP 479: 2 msg
> PEP 442: 2 msg
> PEP 568: 1 msg
> PEP 394: 1 msg
>
> Total: 1868 msg; avg: 39.7 msg/PEP
>
> According to my tool, Yury Selivanov holds the current record with the
> PEP 550 and 284 emails :-) Especially if you add the 151 messages of
> the PEP 567. (Where is the PEP 555 in my list?)
>
> Victor

From brett at python.org  Fri Apr 27 11:56:03 2018
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 15:56:03 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams?
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGEbvktTz6X9k4kYxQXeLHWCwTDE=qNfYnYt7Wkd9yZ6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFTXK=6U-23e23wM5UBv6xR4ONSzyE6zYb0-b66O0ZGnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+St6D09+6juu1_rHkeVByKTf9Sn_3NSDF3kEpVWKJ2aaPFOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEbvktTz6X9k4kYxQXeLHWCwTDE=qNfYnYt7Wkd9yZ6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W47x+gjXbpracyQmGK3vyJYYMizu6X49DCwv-k_Z69x2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 at 07:41 Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Ok, maybe asyncio is not a good candidate to experiment. I know that
> asyncio internals are complex, and asynchronous programming is hard.
>
> Sure, the risk of regression in the Documentation is lower :-) But it
> doesn't mean that we should accept any change in the doc. I already
> saw people proposing to fix the doc, whereas they misunderstood
> something and the doc was plain right :-)
>

While I have no issue with the subteam concept (e.g. we have the
import-team on GitHub that automatically get asked for PR reviews for
relevant files), doing what you're asking will require some coding which is
always hard to get people to do. ;)

The other option is we follow our own traditional practice of granting
people commit rights for subsets of the code base and trust them to not
overstep their comfort zones. I don't see why we can't do the same for
documentation. If we trust them enough to change our docs then we should
trust them enough to not touch C code unless they have the appropriate
experience.


>
> Victor
>
> 2018-04-26 16:31 GMT+02:00 Yury Selivanov <yselivanov.ml at gmail.com>:
> > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:12 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> > [..]
> >> I identified 3 obvious subteams:
> >
> >> * Documentation
> >> * IDLE
> >> * asyncio
> >
> > Sorry, asyncio isn't an obvious choice for me. There are not so many
> > low-hanging fruits left in asyncio except improvements to its
> > documentation. I'm a firm -1 to allow people to merge without Andrew's or
> > my review at this point, almost no PRs are fine when they are submitted
> > (including our own). There's a lot of complexity in asyncio which isn't
> > immediately evident to people who are not working with its internals on a
> > daily basis.
> >
> > Now, people who report and submit asyncio PRs seem to do that just fine
> > without subteams. Although it's rare to see people contributing more than
> > once, but that's not an asyncio-specific pattern, I see it in every big
> and
> > complex project I happen to contribute to.  Even having a dedicated
> asyncio
> > mailing list doesn't help to get people to contribute to asyncio more
> > frequently.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, Andrew and I would certainly welcome any help we can
> > get, but I'd be against running a public experiment with asyncio to see
> if
> > 2 of us can handle the management of the new sub-teams idea.
> Unfortunately
> > 2 of us just don't have capacity for that.
> >
> > Please pick another project for your idea. Maybe we should try it for
> > documentation first, where we have a lot of core devs who can help with
> PR
> > reviews and management of "subteams".
> >
> > Yury
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
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>
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From nad at python.org  Mon Apr 30 15:37:21 2018
From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:37:21 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] IMPORTANT - final 3.7.0 beta cutoff!
Message-ID: <01EC16A4-A520-4660-8592-B55241712F92@python.org>

Just a reminder that 3.7.0b4 is almost upon us. Please get your
feature fixes, bug fixes, and documentation updates in before
2018-04-30 ~23:59 Anywhere on Earth (UTC-12:00). That's about 16
hours from now.

IMPORTANT: We are now in the final phase of 3.7.0. Tomorrow's 3.7.0b4
is the final beta planned for 3.7.0. After tomorrow, the next planned
release is the 3.7.0 release candidate, on 2018-05-21, for final
testing. Our goal is to have no changes between the release candidate
and final; after rc1, changes applied to the 3.7 branch will be
released in 3.7.1. Between now and the rc1 cutoff, please
double-check that there are no critical problems outstanding and that
documentation for new features in 3.7 is complete (including NEWS and
What's New items), and that 3.7 is getting exposure and tested with
our various platorms and third-party distributions and applications.
Also, during the time leading up to the release candidate, we will be
completing the What's New in 3.7 document.

As noted before, the ABI for 3.7.0 was frozen as of 3.7.0b3. You
should now be treating the 3.7 branch as if it were already released
and in maintenance mode. That means you should only push the kinds of
changes that are appropriate for a maintenance release:
non-ABI-changing bug and feature fixes and documentation updates. If
you find a problem that requires an ABI-altering or other significant
user-facing change (for example, something likely to introduce an
incompatibility with existing users' code or require rebuilding of
user extension modules), please make sure to set the b.p.o issue to
"release blocker" priority and describe there why you feel the change
is necessary. If you are reviewing PRs for 3.7 (and please do!), be
on the lookout for and flag potential incompatibilities (we've all
made them).

Thanks again for all of your hard work towards making 3.7.0 yet
another great release - coming to a website near you on 06-15!

--Ned

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at python.org -- []