From larry at hastings.org Mon Apr 2 07:41:52 2018 From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 04:41:52 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] [Crosspost from python-committers] Announcing: signups are open for the 2018 Python Language Summit Message-ID: <7ad20027-bbb4-8d83-befb-1787a513f0da@hastings.org> It?s that time again: time to start thinking about the Python Language Summit!? The 2018 summit will be held on Wednesday, May 9, from 10am to 4pm, at the Huntington Convention Center in Cleveland, Ohio, USA.? Your befezzled and befuddled hosts Barry and Larry will once more be behind the big desk in front. The summit?s purpose is to disseminate information and spark conversation among core Python developers.? It?s our yearly opportunity to get together for an in-person discussion, to review interesting developments of the previous year and hash out where we?re going next.? And we have lots to talk about!? 3.7 is in beta, and we've all collectively started work on 3.8 too. As before, we?re using Google Forms to collect signups.? Signups are open now; the deadline to sign up is Wednesday April 18th, 2018 (AoE).? Please do us a favor and sign up sooner rather than later.? The signup form is simpler this year--I bet most people can be done in less than two minutes! One difference from last year: there are now *two* forms.? The first form is for signing up to attend (the "Request For Invitation" form), and the second form is for proposing a talk. Please note: if you want to present, you still need to fill out the Request For Invitation form too.? (Yes, it's more complicated this way, sorry.? But having both on the same form kind of enforced a one-to-one mapping, and it's really a many-to-many mapping: one person might propose multiple talks, and one talk might have multiple presenters.? Overall this should be less complicated.) You can find links to *both* forms on the official Python Language Summit 2018 page: https://us.pycon.org/2018/events/language-summit/ A few notes: * There will be lightning talks!? Signups will only be available during the Language Summit itself. * You don?t need to be registered for PyCon in order to attend the summit! * We?ll have badge ribbons for Language Summit participants, which we?ll hand out at the summit room in the morning. * We're inviting Jake Edge from Linux Weekly News to attend the summit and provide press coverage again.? Jake?s done a phenomenal job of covering the last few summits, providing valuable information not just for summit attendees, but also for the Python community at large.? Jake?s coverage goes a long way toward demystifying the summit, while remaining respectful of confidential information that?s deemed ?off the record? ahead of time by participants. One big final note (please read this!): When using Google Forms, you /can/ edit your responses later!? When you fill out the form and hit Submit, the submission complete page (the one that says "Thanks for playing!") will have a link on it labeled "Edit your response". BOOKMARK THIS LINK!? You can use this link at /any time/ to edit your response, up to the point that signups close on April 18th.? Keep in mind, you'll need to bookmark each response independently: once for signing up to attend ("Request For Invitation"), and once for each talk proposal you submit. Again, /please/ be sure to save this bookmark yourself--we don't know how to find the link for you later if you don't save it. We hope to see you at the summit! [BL]arry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry at hastings.org Wed Apr 11 12:23:13 2018 From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:23:13 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Reminder: 2018 Python Language Summit signups close next week Message-ID: <0c45559d-bdcd-376a-056a-7718708707b5@hastings.org> The deadline is a week from today, April 18th 2018.? Original announcement below. -- It?s that time again: time to start thinking about the Python Language Summit!? The 2018 summit will be held on Wednesday, May 9, from 10am to 4pm, at the Huntington Convention Center in Cleveland, Ohio, USA.? Your befezzled and befuddled hosts Barry and Larry will once more be behind the big desk in front. The summit?s purpose is to disseminate information and spark conversation among core Python developers.? It?s our yearly opportunity to get together for an in-person discussion, to review interesting developments of the previous year and hash out where we?re going next.? And we have lots to talk about! 3.7 is in beta, and we've all collectively started work on 3.8 too. As before, we?re using Google Forms to collect signups.? Signups are open now; the deadline to sign up is Wednesday April 18th, 2018 (AoE).? Please do us a favor and sign up sooner rather than later.? The signup form is simpler this year--I bet most people can be done in less than two minutes! One difference from last year: there are now *two* forms.? The first form is for signing up to attend (the "Request For Invitation" form), and the second form is for proposing a talk. Please note: if you want to present, you still need to fill out the Request For Invitation form too.? (Yes, it's more complicated this way, sorry.? But having both on the same form kind of enforced a one-to-one mapping, and it's really a many-to-many mapping: one person might propose multiple talks, and one talk might have multiple presenters.? Overall this should be less complicated.) You can find links to *both* forms on the official Python Language Summit 2018 page: https://us.pycon.org/2018/events/language-summit/ A few notes: * There will be lightning talks!? Signups will only be available during the Language Summit itself. * You don?t need to be registered for PyCon in order to attend the summit! * We?ll have badge ribbons for Language Summit participants, which we?ll hand out at the summit room in the morning. * We're inviting Jake Edge from Linux Weekly News to attend the summit and provide press coverage again.? Jake?s done a phenomenal job of covering the last few summits, providing valuable information not just for summit attendees, but also for the Python community at large.? Jake?s coverage goes a long way toward demystifying the summit, while remaining respectful of confidential information that?s deemed ?off the record? ahead of time by participants. One big final note (please read this!): When using Google Forms, you /can/ edit your responses later!? When you fill out the form and hit Submit, the submission complete page (the one that says "Thanks for playing!") will have a link on it labeled "Edit your response".? BOOKMARK THIS LINK!? You can use this link at /any time/ to edit your response, up to the point that signups close on April 18th.? Keep in mind, you'll need to bookmark each response independently: once for signing up to attend ("Request For Invitation"), and once for each talk proposal you submit.? Again, /please/ be sure to save this bookmark yourself--we don't know how to find the link for you later if you don't save it. We hope to see you at the summit! [BL]arry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ncoghlan at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 08:13:49 2018 From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 22:13:49 +1000 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer Message-ID: Hi folks, I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, focusing on extension module imports. Petr was the primary designer & implementer for the accepted PEP 489 multi-phase extension module initialisation PEP, and has continued to work on changes related to that while mentoring Marcel Plch in the development of PEP 547 (which will get extension modules to the point where they can even support execution with the -m switch). When an import system issue specifically related to extension modules gets brought to my attention, I'll typically add Petr to the nosy list to request his opinion. Regards, Nick. P.S. While bringing on another extension module import system maintainer is my primary motivation for nominating him, I'll also note that Petr's also long been my primary point of contact for advice on CPython integration into Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS (he's the current Python maintenance team lead at Red Hat), and he also has a lot of practical Python 2->3 porting experience (as a result of coordinating much of the migration effort for Fedora and RHEL, including leading the creation of https://portingguide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html ) -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia From brett at python.org Fri Apr 13 13:05:28 2018 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 17:05:28 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to add my vote, I too typically pull in Petr whenever I get pulled into an extension module import issue since he and Nick know that part of import way better than I do. :) On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 at 05:14 Nick Coghlan wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, > focusing on extension module imports. > > Petr was the primary designer & implementer for the accepted PEP 489 > multi-phase extension module initialisation PEP, and has continued to > work on changes related to that while mentoring Marcel Plch in the > development of PEP 547 (which will get extension modules to the point > where they can even support execution with the -m switch). > > When an import system issue specifically related to extension modules > gets brought to my attention, I'll typically add Petr to the nosy list > to request his opinion. > > Regards, > Nick. > > P.S. While bringing on another extension module import system > maintainer is my primary motivation for nominating him, I'll also note > that Petr's also long been my primary point of contact for advice on > CPython integration into Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS (he's the current > Python maintenance team lead at Red Hat), and he also has a lot of > practical Python 2->3 porting experience (as a result of coordinating > much of the migration effort for Fedora and RHEL, including leading > the creation of > https://portingguide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html ) > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry at python.org Fri Apr 13 14:17:52 2018 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 11:17:52 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19B977A8-4C17-46A6-87AC-447D810EE417@python.org> On Apr 13, 2018, at 05:13, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, > focusing on extension module imports. +1 -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From willingc at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 14:23:58 2018 From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 11:23:58 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: <19B977A8-4C17-46A6-87AC-447D810EE417@python.org> References: <19B977A8-4C17-46A6-87AC-447D810EE417@python.org> Message-ID: <56B223FC-E4FA-4A80-A9E6-C4ACE6D41026@gmail.com> > On Apr 13, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On Apr 13, 2018, at 05:13, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, >> focusing on extension module imports. > > +1 > > -Barry > +1 Carol > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ From yselivanov.ml at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 16:42:39 2018 From: yselivanov.ml at gmail.com (Yury Selivanov) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 16:42:39 -0400 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1. Yury On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, > focusing on extension module imports. > > Petr was the primary designer & implementer for the accepted PEP 489 > multi-phase extension module initialisation PEP, and has continued to > work on changes related to that while mentoring Marcel Plch in the > development of PEP 547 (which will get extension modules to the point > where they can even support execution with the -m switch). > > When an import system issue specifically related to extension modules > gets brought to my attention, I'll typically add Petr to the nosy list > to request his opinion. > > Regards, > Nick. > > P.S. While bringing on another extension module import system > maintainer is my primary motivation for nominating him, I'll also note > that Petr's also long been my primary point of contact for advice on > CPython integration into Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS (he's the current > Python maintenance team lead at Red Hat), and he also has a lot of > practical Python 2->3 porting experience (as a result of coordinating > much of the migration effort for Fedora and RHEL, including leading > the creation of > https://portingguide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html ) > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ From brett at python.org Fri Apr 13 16:53:58 2018 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 20:53:58 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Experimenting with a Zulip instance for Python core development Message-ID: Over on core-workflow we decided to try out Zulip as a "more hyper-interactive email" way to communicate (at least that's how Guido phrased it :) . We have set up https://python.zulipchat.com/ for *just* Python core development discussion (i.e. this is not for general Python support). People so far seem to be enjoying it and so I'm ready to open it up to a bit more by announcing it here (and if this goes well then I will announce on python-dev). Now this is just an experiment and we still expect any important decisions that need to be discussed with everyone to happen here or on python-dev (e.g. see INADA-san's recent email about PyUnicode field deprecations which started over on Zulip but was brought over to email for wider discussion). This is also not officially part of the Python core team's communication channels like this mailing list, python-dev, or #python-dev is. But if this experiment does work out well then we will discuss over on core-workflow (and on Zulip ;) about making this more official. Do note that the instance is rather open so you can create new streams and add bots as desired. We already have bots set up for all commits, build failures, and deployments of Bedevere and the Knights Who Say Ni (Mariatta will probably set up Miss Islington when she gets back from her break). Anyway, feel free to log in and give it a try! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christian at python.org Fri Apr 13 17:32:03 2018 From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 23:32:03 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2018-04-13 14:13, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, > focusing on extension module imports. +1 I know him personally from work. He is a good engineer and responsible guy. Christian From raymond.hettinger at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 18:56:55 2018 From: raymond.hettinger at gmail.com (Raymond Hettinger) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 15:56:55 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, > focusing on extension module imports. +1 This is an area that could use more attention from someone who really cares about it. Raymond From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 21:40:36 2018 From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 19:40:36 -0600 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 -eric On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > > >> On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, >> focusing on extension module imports. > > +1 This is an area that could use more attention from someone who really cares about it. > > > Raymond > > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ From mal at egenix.com Sat Apr 14 03:04:21 2018 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 09:04:21 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Proposing Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 On 14.04.2018 03:40, Eric Snow wrote: > +1 > > -eric > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Raymond Hettinger > wrote: >> >> >>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:13 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> >>> I'd like to propose Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer, >>> focusing on extension module imports. >> >> +1 This is an area that could use more attention from someone who really cares about it. >> >> >> Raymond >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-committers mailing list >> python-committers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Apr 14 2018) >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs ::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/ From storchaka at gmail.com Sun Apr 22 12:16:01 2018 From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 19:16:01 +0300 Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports Message-ID: miss-islington is an awesome bot! It makes fixing bugs in multiple versions much simpler. You need just accept automatically created backporting PRs. But there is a downside. miss-islington makes the life so easier, that sometimes you forgot about not finished backports. miss-islington can fail to backport some changes for different reasons. Currently on GitHub there are tens merged PRs labeled for backporting, but backports were not finished. Please take attention if your PRs in one of the following lists: https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.7%22+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Aclosed From tjreedy at udel.edu Sun Apr 22 14:27:16 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:27:16 -0400 Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > miss-islington is an awesome bot! It makes fixing bugs in multiple > versions much simpler. You need just accept automatically created > backporting PRs. > > But there is a downside. miss-islington makes the life so easier, that > sometimes you forgot about not finished backports. miss-islington can > fail to backport some changes for different reasons. Currently on GitHub > there are tens merged PRs labeled for backporting, but backports were > not finished. Please take attention if your PRs in one of the following > lists: Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this case, those whose have done particular merges)? > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.7%22+is%3Aclosed > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Aclosed Several of these were closed without merging and should not and cannot be backported. For instance, you closed https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/4225 after you submitted and merged a replacement. https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6259 Stripping backport labels off of rejected PRs could be considered. But this would toss information needed for a new PR if the bpo issue is open. Expecting either the submitter or merged of a replacement to go back and clean up the original seems a bit much. The submitter might not be able to, and the merger might not know or forget that the PR is a replacement. Perhaps rejected PRs should just be ignored. Replacing 'closed' with 'merged' excludes rejected PRs. https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Amerged > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Amerged The 2.7 backport of https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3639 is yours. tjr From storchaka at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 06:19:46 2018 From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:19:46 +0300 Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports In-Reply-To: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> References: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> Message-ID: 22.04.18 21:27, Terry Reedy ????: > Replacing 'closed' with 'merged' excludes rejected PRs. Thank you, this gives cleaner result. > The 2.7 backport of https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3639 > is yours. I thought you taken it. From ncoghlan at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 10:39:40 2018 From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 00:39:40 +1000 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) Message-ID: Hi folks, With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and this mailing list. Welcome, Petr! :) Cheers, Nick. P.S. When adjusting the nosy list on the issue tracker, you'll find there's also a new "extension modules" topic, which can be selected to subscribe both Petr and I to the issue :) -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia From ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 10:58:58 2018 From: ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com (Eric Snow) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:58:58 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome, Petr! -eric On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 08:39 Nick Coghlan wrote: > Hi folks, > > With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core > developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's > and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now > granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and > this mailing list. > > Welcome, Petr! :) > > Cheers, > Nick. > > P.S. When adjusting the nosy list on the issue tracker, you'll find > there's also a new "extension modules" topic, which can be selected to > subscribe both Petr and I to the issue :) > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ethan at stoneleaf.us Mon Apr 23 11:43:48 2018 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 08:43:48 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5ADDFF34.7030001@stoneleaf.us> On 04/23/2018 07:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core > developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's > and no concerns being raised, Where did this conversation take place? I see no record of it here nor on the Zulip Chat channels. > I'm happy to report that Brett has now > granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and > this mailing list. > > Welcome, Petr! :) Yes, welcome, Petr! -- ~Ethan~ From christian at python.org Mon Apr 23 12:37:31 2018 From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 18:37:31 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: <5ADDFF34.7030001@stoneleaf.us> References: <5ADDFF34.7030001@stoneleaf.us> Message-ID: <5f12fd5e-141c-4904-27f9-190a377e3922@python.org> On 2018-04-23 17:43, Ethan Furman wrote: > On 04/23/2018 07:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > >> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core >> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's >> and no concerns being raised, > > Where did this conversation take place?? I see no record of it here nor > on the Zulip Chat channels. We discussed the matter 10 days ago on this very mailing list, https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-April/005276.html >> I'm happy to report that Brett has now >> granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and >> this mailing list. >> >> Welcome, Petr! :) > > Yes, welcome, Petr! Welcome! :) Christian From brett at python.org Mon Apr 23 12:47:31 2018 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:47:31 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports In-Reply-To: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> References: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > > miss-islington is an awesome bot! It makes fixing bugs in multiple > > versions much simpler. You need just accept automatically created > > backporting PRs. > > > > But there is a downside. miss-islington makes the life so easier, that > > sometimes you forgot about not finished backports. miss-islington can > > fail to backport some changes for different reasons. Currently on GitHub > > there are tens merged PRs labeled for backporting, but backports were > > not finished. Please take attention if your PRs in one of the following > > lists: > > Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who > have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this > case, those whose have done particular merges)? > No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment. -Brett > > > > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.7%22+is%3Aclosed > > > > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Aclosed > > Several of these were closed without merging and should not and cannot > be backported. For instance, you closed > https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/4225 > after you submitted and merged a replacement. > https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6259 > > Stripping backport labels off of rejected PRs could be considered. But > this would toss information needed for a new PR if the bpo issue is > open. Expecting either the submitter or merged of a replacement to go > back and clean up the original seems a bit much. The submitter might > not be able to, and the merger might not know or forget that the PR is a > replacement. Perhaps rejected PRs should just be ignored. > > Replacing 'closed' with 'merged' excludes rejected PRs. > > > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+3.6%22+is%3Amerged > > > > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Aclosed > > > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=label%3A%22needs+backport+to+2.7%22+is%3Amerged > > The 2.7 backport of https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3639 > is yours. > > tjr > > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antoine at python.org Mon Apr 23 14:45:40 2018 From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 20:45:40 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Le 23/04/2018 ? 16:39, Nick Coghlan a ?crit?: > Hi folks, > > With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core > developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's > and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now > granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and > this mailing list. Welcome Petr! You have a lot of gruesome work ahead ;-) (just kidding: I'm sure you'll have fun on the way) Regards Antoine. From ethan at stoneleaf.us Mon Apr 23 16:08:47 2018 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:08:47 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] missing email thread [was: Welcoming Petr ...] Message-ID: <5ADE3D4F.3040902@stoneleaf.us> On 04/23/2018 09:37 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:> On 2018-04-23 17:43, Ethan Furman wrote: >> On 04/23/2018 07:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core >>> developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's >>> and no concerns being raised, >> >> Where did this conversation take place? I see no record of it here nor >> on the Zulip Chat channels. > > We discussed the matter 10 days ago on this very mailing list, > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-April/005276.html Huh. I keep 30 days worth of email for Python-Committers but I don't have that thread. If anybody has any ideas on what might have happened I'd love to hear them! I use Thunderbird on Ubuntu 12. (I'm pretty sure I didn't delete the thread. ;) ) -- ~Ethan~ From willingc at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 23:52:25 2018 From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 20:52:25 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome Petr :D We're glad to have you on board. Warmly, Carol On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 11:45 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Le 23/04/2018 ? 16:39, Nick Coghlan a ?crit : > > Hi folks, > > > > With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core > > developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's > > and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now > > granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and > > this mailing list. > > Welcome Petr! You have a lot of gruesome work ahead ;-) > (just kidding: I'm sure you'll have fun on the way) > > Regards > > Antoine. > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -- *Carol Willing* Research Software Engineer Project Jupyter at Cal Poly SLO cawillin at calpoly.edu *Signature strengths* *Empathy - Relator - Ideation - Strategic - Learner* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vstinner at redhat.com Tue Apr 24 05:05:11 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 11:05:11 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congrats Petr, welcome aboard! Victor From storchaka at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 05:59:01 2018 From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:59:01 +0300 Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports In-Reply-To: References: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> Message-ID: <48cb8f3c-59c0-ad20-33b7-a78cb557b805@gmail.com> 23.04.18 19:47, Brett Cannon ????: > On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy > wrote: > > Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to > people who > have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in > this > case, those whose have done particular merges)? > > > No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email > address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment. Aren't all active committer subscribed to this mailing list? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kushaldas at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 11:25:02 2018 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 08:25:02 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] Welcoming Petr Viktorin as our newest core developer :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Hi folks, > > With my recent proposal to accept Petr Viktorin as a specialist core > developer focusing on extension module imports receiving several +1's > and no concerns being raised, I'm happy to report that Brett has now > granted Petr his additional access on GitHub, the issue tracker, and > this mailing list. > > Welcome, Petr! :) Welcome on board :) Kushal From brett at python.org Tue Apr 24 11:57:37 2018 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:57:37 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Orphaned backports In-Reply-To: <48cb8f3c-59c0-ad20-33b7-a78cb557b805@gmail.com> References: <2dac841a-881f-40b6-646a-674459fe0cc1@udel.edu> <48cb8f3c-59c0-ad20-33b7-a78cb557b805@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 at 02:59 Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 23.04.18 19:47, Brett Cannon ????: > > On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy wrote: > >> Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who >> have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this >> case, those whose have done particular merges)? >> > > No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email > address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment. > > > Aren't all active committer subscribed to this mailing list? > They should be. Doesn't mean they pay attention to it. ;) -Brett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vstinner at redhat.com Thu Apr 26 07:02:15 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:02:15 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? Message-ID: Hi, Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular? Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP. I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list, using mbox archives available at: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ My script: https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21. In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the start of the chaos: ... 2018-04-17: 27 2018-04-18: 20 2018-04-19: 11 2018-04-20: 36 2018-04-21: 36 2018-04-22: 31 2018-04-23: 32 2018-04-24: 72 2018-04-25: 76 2018-04-26: 23 2018-04-27: 10 Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!? I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other emails sent the same day. I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still discussing arguments in polite way? How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply immediately but instead try to listen to the other people? IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and then on python-dev. We are now turning around. Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion. I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would get too many replies on python-dev ... Victor From vstinner at redhat.com Thu Apr 26 10:12:02 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:12:02 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams? Message-ID: Hi, While thinking about how to get more contributors onboard, I identified that one bottleneck is building trust. Currently, a vote to promote a contributor as a core dev requires the approval of almost all active core developers, and this list is quite large (50 people? more?). It takes a lot of time until a contributor is known by enough people to start the process to promote them as a core dev. My idea is to create subteams which would have less permission than "everything": restrict changes to specific directories. It seems like in practice, we already have such subteams: Documentation, IDLE and asyncio have a dedicated Component in the bug tracker, their own directories, a group of people focused on these components, and even... a dedicated mailing list! The restriction would be the ability to merge a pull request. Since miss-ilington recently got the power of merging a PR, it makes me think that it's doable to allow "non core" people to merge a change under certain conditions. For example, let's say that a contributor called "Alice" is part of a subteam. If Alice approves a change in the review, added the "approved" label and the CI pass: a bot can merge the change, since Alice is allowed to merge a PR modifying specific directories.If Alice doesn't have the power, the bot may notice Alice that she lacks permission and the bot may remove the label. IMHO it's better to have two steps to merge: approval in the review and a label, sometimes a change looks good but should not be merged yet, or you don't want to take the responsibility to merge it yourself. What about current core developers? No change for them, they keep their "super power" to modify everything. If a member of a subteam shows interest to do more than only working in a subteam, the usual promotion process with a vote on python-committers can be followed. My expectation is that it will be faster to promote a contributor into a subteam. It's easier to trust someone if they is only allowed to modify some directories. In my experience, people with the same interest find their way to meet other people working on the same topic. The trust is built naturally in a component. You may see a parallel with the Linux kernel hierarchy and Linux subsystems, but the proposed organization is different. In Python, the tradition is that everybody works in the same repository. I don't want to change that. What do you think? Do you like the idea of subteams? Is it feasible (the label and the bot things)? I identified 3 obvious subteams: * Documentation * IDLE * asyncio Maybe you see more candidates? Victor From yselivanov.ml at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 10:31:46 2018 From: yselivanov.ml at gmail.com (Yury Selivanov) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:31:46 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:12 AM Victor Stinner wrote: [..] > I identified 3 obvious subteams: > * Documentation > * IDLE > * asyncio Sorry, asyncio isn't an obvious choice for me. There are not so many low-hanging fruits left in asyncio except improvements to its documentation. I'm a firm -1 to allow people to merge without Andrew's or my review at this point, almost no PRs are fine when they are submitted (including our own). There's a lot of complexity in asyncio which isn't immediately evident to people who are not working with its internals on a daily basis. Now, people who report and submit asyncio PRs seem to do that just fine without subteams. Although it's rare to see people contributing more than once, but that's not an asyncio-specific pattern, I see it in every big and complex project I happen to contribute to. Even having a dedicated asyncio mailing list doesn't help to get people to contribute to asyncio more frequently. Don't get me wrong, Andrew and I would certainly welcome any help we can get, but I'd be against running a public experiment with asyncio to see if 2 of us can handle the management of the new sub-teams idea. Unfortunately 2 of us just don't have capacity for that. Please pick another project for your idea. Maybe we should try it for documentation first, where we have a lot of core devs who can help with PR reviews and management of "subteams". Yury From vstinner at redhat.com Thu Apr 26 10:38:56 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:38:56 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok, maybe asyncio is not a good candidate to experiment. I know that asyncio internals are complex, and asynchronous programming is hard. Sure, the risk of regression in the Documentation is lower :-) But it doesn't mean that we should accept any change in the doc. I already saw people proposing to fix the doc, whereas they misunderstood something and the doc was plain right :-) Victor 2018-04-26 16:31 GMT+02:00 Yury Selivanov : > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:12 AM Victor Stinner wrote: > [..] >> I identified 3 obvious subteams: > >> * Documentation >> * IDLE >> * asyncio > > Sorry, asyncio isn't an obvious choice for me. There are not so many > low-hanging fruits left in asyncio except improvements to its > documentation. I'm a firm -1 to allow people to merge without Andrew's or > my review at this point, almost no PRs are fine when they are submitted > (including our own). There's a lot of complexity in asyncio which isn't > immediately evident to people who are not working with its internals on a > daily basis. > > Now, people who report and submit asyncio PRs seem to do that just fine > without subteams. Although it's rare to see people contributing more than > once, but that's not an asyncio-specific pattern, I see it in every big and > complex project I happen to contribute to. Even having a dedicated asyncio > mailing list doesn't help to get people to contribute to asyncio more > frequently. > > Don't get me wrong, Andrew and I would certainly welcome any help we can > get, but I'd be against running a public experiment with asyncio to see if > 2 of us can handle the management of the new sub-teams idea. Unfortunately > 2 of us just don't have capacity for that. > > Please pick another project for your idea. Maybe we should try it for > documentation first, where we have a lot of core devs who can help with PR > reviews and management of "subteams". > > Yury From guido at python.org Thu Apr 26 11:03:14 2018 From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:03:14 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The way to calm discussions is to stop responding. On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:02 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > Hi, > > Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more > and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular? > Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails > becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP. > > I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list, > using mbox archives available at: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ > > My script: > https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py > > In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21. > > In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the > start of the chaos: > > ... > 2018-04-17: 27 > 2018-04-18: 20 > 2018-04-19: 11 > 2018-04-20: 36 > 2018-04-21: 36 > 2018-04-22: 31 > 2018-04-23: 32 > 2018-04-24: 72 > 2018-04-25: 76 > 2018-04-26: 23 > 2018-04-27: 10 > > Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!? > > I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to > python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are > answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other > emails sent the same day. > > I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still > discussing arguments in polite way? > > How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply > immediately but instead try to listen to the other people? > > IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I > wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and > then on python-dev. We are now turning around. > > Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the > PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion. > > I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would > get too many replies on python-dev ... > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vstinner at redhat.com Thu Apr 26 11:10:01 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:10:01 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I computed stats since January 2017: 2017-01: Total: 220 msg; avg: 7.6 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-01-18 2017-02: Total: 191 msg; avg: 7.1 msg/day; max: 27 msg at 2017-02-24 2017-03: Total: 240 msg; avg: 8.0 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-03-03 2017-04: Total: 79 msg; avg: 3.0 msg/day; max: 9 msg at 2017-04-21 2017-05: Total: 281 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 26 msg at 2017-05-24 2017-06: Total: 426 msg; avg: 14.2 msg/day; max: 80 msg at 2017-06-01 2017-07: Total: 253 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 41 msg at 2017-07-17 2017-08: Total: 326 msg; avg: 12.5 msg/day; max: 40 msg at 2017-08-29 2017-09: Total: 548 msg; avg: 19.6 msg/day; max: 84 msg at 2017-09-06 2017-10: Total: 402 msg; avg: 14.4 msg/day; max: 49 msg at 2017-10-02 2017-11: Total: 942 msg; avg: 31.4 msg/day; max: 96 msg at 2017-11-06 2017-12: Total: 536 msg; avg: 17.3 msg/day; max: 67 msg at 2017-12-15 2018-01: Total: 504 msg; avg: 16.8 msg/day; max: 42 msg at 2018-01-05 2018-02: Total: 286 msg; avg: 11.9 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-02-21 2018-03: Total: 246 msg; avg: 8.8 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-03-29 2018-04: Total: 523 msg; avg: 20.9 msg/day; max: 97 msg at 2018-04-24 April 2018 is not yet the worst :-) November 2017 was an interesting month! Victor From antoine at python.org Thu Apr 26 11:13:05 2018 From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:13:05 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org> Obviously, the issue is less the number of messages per month than the fact that most of them are about a single proposal :-) Regards Antoine. Le 26/04/2018 ? 17:10, Victor Stinner a ?crit?: > I computed stats since January 2017: > > 2017-01: Total: 220 msg; avg: 7.6 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-01-18 > 2017-02: Total: 191 msg; avg: 7.1 msg/day; max: 27 msg at 2017-02-24 > 2017-03: Total: 240 msg; avg: 8.0 msg/day; max: 20 msg at 2017-03-03 > 2017-04: Total: 79 msg; avg: 3.0 msg/day; max: 9 msg at 2017-04-21 > 2017-05: Total: 281 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 26 msg at 2017-05-24 > 2017-06: Total: 426 msg; avg: 14.2 msg/day; max: 80 msg at 2017-06-01 > 2017-07: Total: 253 msg; avg: 9.7 msg/day; max: 41 msg at 2017-07-17 > 2017-08: Total: 326 msg; avg: 12.5 msg/day; max: 40 msg at 2017-08-29 > 2017-09: Total: 548 msg; avg: 19.6 msg/day; max: 84 msg at 2017-09-06 > 2017-10: Total: 402 msg; avg: 14.4 msg/day; max: 49 msg at 2017-10-02 > 2017-11: Total: 942 msg; avg: 31.4 msg/day; max: 96 msg at 2017-11-06 > 2017-12: Total: 536 msg; avg: 17.3 msg/day; max: 67 msg at 2017-12-15 > 2018-01: Total: 504 msg; avg: 16.8 msg/day; max: 42 msg at 2018-01-05 > 2018-02: Total: 286 msg; avg: 11.9 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-02-21 > 2018-03: Total: 246 msg; avg: 8.8 msg/day; max: 31 msg at 2018-03-29 > 2018-04: Total: 523 msg; avg: 20.9 msg/day; max: 97 msg at 2018-04-24 > > April 2018 is not yet the worst :-) November 2017 was an interesting month! > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > From vstinner at redhat.com Thu Apr 26 11:25:29 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:25:29 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? In-Reply-To: <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org> References: <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org> Message-ID: 2018-04-26 17:13 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou : > Obviously, the issue is less the number of messages per month than the > fact that most of them are about a single proposal :-) Ok, I did statistics on emails with a subject which contains exactly "PEP xxx", since January 2017 to today. I'm not sure that it's reliable, since some people don't write "PEP xxx" in the subject. vstinner at apu$ ./parse_mailman_mbox2.py 201*txt PEP 550: 284 msg PEP 572: 243 msg PEP 557: 176 msg PEP 567: 151 msg PEP 553: 78 msg PEP 538: 76 msg PEP 563: 75 msg PEP 554: 73 msg PEP 540: 62 msg PEP 552: 56 msg PEP 565: 49 msg PEP 564: 46 msg PEP 549: 43 msg PEP 560: 40 msg PEP 544: 40 msg PEP 505: 38 msg PEP 561: 31 msg PEP 484: 25 msg PEP 467: 25 msg PEP 562: 24 msg PEP 559: 23 msg PEP 370: 23 msg PEP 574: 16 msg PEP 526: 15 msg PEP 575: 14 msg PEP 556: 13 msg PEP 545: 12 msg PEP 539: 12 msg PEP 573: 11 msg PEP 551: 11 msg PEP 448: 11 msg PEP 548: 10 msg PEP 103: 10 msg PEP 489: 8 msg PEP 511: 7 msg PEP 523: 6 msg PEP 543: 5 msg PEP 432: 5 msg PEP 510: 4 msg PEP 530: 3 msg PEP 490: 3 msg PEP 393: 3 msg PEP 541: 2 msg PEP 479: 2 msg PEP 442: 2 msg PEP 568: 1 msg PEP 394: 1 msg Total: 1868 msg; avg: 39.7 msg/PEP According to my tool, Yury Selivanov holds the current record with the PEP 550 and 284 emails :-) Especially if you add the 151 messages of the PEP 567. (Where is the PEP 555 in my list?) Victor From willingc at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 11:32:07 2018 From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:32:07 -0700 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <891BD98F-B646-4B6A-BE05-93C0DEA39A02@gmail.com> > On Apr 26, 2018, at 8:03 AM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > > The way to calm discussions is to stop responding. Hi Victor, In the gentlest way that I know how, I commend you for considering the impact that emails have on PEP writers especially when "dogpiling" (i.e. folks jumping in without anything new to add to the discussion on a controversial issue). People are hard :( and wonderful :) In my experience, people's actions (as Guido mentions) do more to calm things than technology. One slippery slope with a technical solution is that people then begin to game the technical system. Responding calmly, staying on topic by addressing the approach not the PEP writer, seeking to work toward a better solution than shooting down an idea, and slowing your response time are ways to calm things down and improve productivity. These concepts are well proven by the Harvard Negotiation project. One constructive thing that we can do is to put yourself in the shoes of the PEP writer before pressing "send" and consider how you might "feel" if you received the message that you are about to send. Warmly, Carol > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:02 AM, Victor Stinner > wrote: > Hi, > > Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more > and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular? > Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails > becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP. > > I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list, > using mbox archives available at: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ > > My script: > https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py > > In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21. > > In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the > start of the chaos: > > ... > 2018-04-17: 27 > 2018-04-18: 20 > 2018-04-19: 11 > 2018-04-20: 36 > 2018-04-21: 36 > 2018-04-22: 31 > 2018-04-23: 32 > 2018-04-24: 72 > 2018-04-25: 76 > 2018-04-26: 23 > 2018-04-27: 10 > > Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!? > > I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to > python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are > answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other > emails sent the same day. > > I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still > discussing arguments in polite way? > > How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply > immediately but instead try to listen to the other people? > > IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I > wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and > then on python-dev. We are now turning around. > > Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the > PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion. > > I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would > get too many replies on python-dev ... > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > > -- > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido ) > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 874 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From vstinner at redhat.com Thu Apr 26 11:32:24 2018 From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:32:24 +0200 Subject: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572? In-Reply-To: References: <76e8bad0-b43d-4138-0b26-e11dbfc3fad9@python.org> Message-ID: Ah sorry, results were surprising, so I did more stats including python-ideas. "PEP 572: 662 msg" is now the obvious winner. Congrats Chris Angelico for the new record! python-dev + python-ideas, Jan 2017 - April 2018 : vstinner at apu$ ./parse_mailman_mbox2.py python-dev/* python-ideas/* PEP 572: 662 msg PEP 550: 387 msg PEP 557: 177 msg PEP 567: 155 msg PEP 540: 140 msg PEP 554: 110 msg PEP 563: 106 msg PEP 505: 91 msg PEP 538: 80 msg PEP 553: 78 msg PEP 560: 72 msg PEP 552: 56 msg PEP 565: 49 msg PEP 562: 47 msg PEP 564: 46 msg PEP 549: 43 msg PEP 561: 42 msg PEP 544: 40 msg PEP 484: 28 msg PEP 467: 25 msg PEP 526: 24 msg PEP 559: 23 msg PEP 370: 23 msg PEP 574: 16 msg PEP 575: 14 msg PEP 556: 13 msg PEP 573: 12 msg PEP 545: 12 msg PEP 539: 12 msg PEP 551: 11 msg PEP 448: 11 msg PEP 548: 10 msg PEP 447: 10 msg PEP 103: 10 msg PEP 506: 9 msg PEP 489: 8 msg PEP 555: 7 msg PEP 511: 7 msg PEP 523: 6 msg PEP 543: 5 msg PEP 432: 5 msg PEP 510: 4 msg PEP 530: 3 msg PEP 490: 3 msg PEP 393: 3 msg PEP 541: 2 msg PEP 479: 2 msg PEP 468: 2 msg PEP 442: 2 msg PEP 568: 1 msg PEP 394: 1 msg Total: 2705 msg; avg: 53.0 msg/PEP Victor 2018-04-26 17:25 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner : > 2018-04-26 17:13 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou : >> Obviously, the issue is less the number of messages per month than the >> fact that most of them are about a single proposal :-) > > Ok, I did statistics on emails with a subject which contains exactly > "PEP xxx", since January 2017 to today. I'm not sure that it's > reliable, since some people don't write "PEP xxx" in the subject. > > vstinner at apu$ ./parse_mailman_mbox2.py 201*txt > PEP 550: 284 msg > PEP 572: 243 msg > PEP 557: 176 msg > PEP 567: 151 msg > PEP 553: 78 msg > PEP 538: 76 msg > PEP 563: 75 msg > PEP 554: 73 msg > PEP 540: 62 msg > PEP 552: 56 msg > PEP 565: 49 msg > PEP 564: 46 msg > PEP 549: 43 msg > PEP 560: 40 msg > PEP 544: 40 msg > PEP 505: 38 msg > PEP 561: 31 msg > PEP 484: 25 msg > PEP 467: 25 msg > PEP 562: 24 msg > PEP 559: 23 msg > PEP 370: 23 msg > PEP 574: 16 msg > PEP 526: 15 msg > PEP 575: 14 msg > PEP 556: 13 msg > PEP 545: 12 msg > PEP 539: 12 msg > PEP 573: 11 msg > PEP 551: 11 msg > PEP 448: 11 msg > PEP 548: 10 msg > PEP 103: 10 msg > PEP 489: 8 msg > PEP 511: 7 msg > PEP 523: 6 msg > PEP 543: 5 msg > PEP 432: 5 msg > PEP 510: 4 msg > PEP 530: 3 msg > PEP 490: 3 msg > PEP 393: 3 msg > PEP 541: 2 msg > PEP 479: 2 msg > PEP 442: 2 msg > PEP 568: 1 msg > PEP 394: 1 msg > > Total: 1868 msg; avg: 39.7 msg/PEP > > According to my tool, Yury Selivanov holds the current record with the > PEP 550 and 284 emails :-) Especially if you add the 151 messages of > the PEP 567. (Where is the PEP 555 in my list?) > > Victor From brett at python.org Fri Apr 27 11:56:03 2018 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 15:56:03 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] Idea: Create subteams? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 at 07:41 Victor Stinner wrote: > Ok, maybe asyncio is not a good candidate to experiment. I know that > asyncio internals are complex, and asynchronous programming is hard. > > Sure, the risk of regression in the Documentation is lower :-) But it > doesn't mean that we should accept any change in the doc. I already > saw people proposing to fix the doc, whereas they misunderstood > something and the doc was plain right :-) > While I have no issue with the subteam concept (e.g. we have the import-team on GitHub that automatically get asked for PR reviews for relevant files), doing what you're asking will require some coding which is always hard to get people to do. ;) The other option is we follow our own traditional practice of granting people commit rights for subsets of the code base and trust them to not overstep their comfort zones. I don't see why we can't do the same for documentation. If we trust them enough to change our docs then we should trust them enough to not touch C code unless they have the appropriate experience. > > Victor > > 2018-04-26 16:31 GMT+02:00 Yury Selivanov : > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:12 AM Victor Stinner > wrote: > > [..] > >> I identified 3 obvious subteams: > > > >> * Documentation > >> * IDLE > >> * asyncio > > > > Sorry, asyncio isn't an obvious choice for me. There are not so many > > low-hanging fruits left in asyncio except improvements to its > > documentation. I'm a firm -1 to allow people to merge without Andrew's or > > my review at this point, almost no PRs are fine when they are submitted > > (including our own). There's a lot of complexity in asyncio which isn't > > immediately evident to people who are not working with its internals on a > > daily basis. > > > > Now, people who report and submit asyncio PRs seem to do that just fine > > without subteams. Although it's rare to see people contributing more than > > once, but that's not an asyncio-specific pattern, I see it in every big > and > > complex project I happen to contribute to. Even having a dedicated > asyncio > > mailing list doesn't help to get people to contribute to asyncio more > > frequently. > > > > Don't get me wrong, Andrew and I would certainly welcome any help we can > > get, but I'd be against running a public experiment with asyncio to see > if > > 2 of us can handle the management of the new sub-teams idea. > Unfortunately > > 2 of us just don't have capacity for that. > > > > Please pick another project for your idea. Maybe we should try it for > > documentation first, where we have a lot of core devs who can help with > PR > > reviews and management of "subteams". > > > > Yury > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nad at python.org Mon Apr 30 15:37:21 2018 From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:37:21 -0400 Subject: [python-committers] IMPORTANT - final 3.7.0 beta cutoff! Message-ID: <01EC16A4-A520-4660-8592-B55241712F92@python.org> Just a reminder that 3.7.0b4 is almost upon us. Please get your feature fixes, bug fixes, and documentation updates in before 2018-04-30 ~23:59 Anywhere on Earth (UTC-12:00). That's about 16 hours from now. IMPORTANT: We are now in the final phase of 3.7.0. Tomorrow's 3.7.0b4 is the final beta planned for 3.7.0. After tomorrow, the next planned release is the 3.7.0 release candidate, on 2018-05-21, for final testing. Our goal is to have no changes between the release candidate and final; after rc1, changes applied to the 3.7 branch will be released in 3.7.1. Between now and the rc1 cutoff, please double-check that there are no critical problems outstanding and that documentation for new features in 3.7 is complete (including NEWS and What's New items), and that 3.7 is getting exposure and tested with our various platorms and third-party distributions and applications. Also, during the time leading up to the release candidate, we will be completing the What's New in 3.7 document. As noted before, the ABI for 3.7.0 was frozen as of 3.7.0b3. You should now be treating the 3.7 branch as if it were already released and in maintenance mode. That means you should only push the kinds of changes that are appropriate for a maintenance release: non-ABI-changing bug and feature fixes and documentation updates. If you find a problem that requires an ABI-altering or other significant user-facing change (for example, something likely to introduce an incompatibility with existing users' code or require rebuilding of user extension modules), please make sure to set the b.p.o issue to "release blocker" priority and describe there why you feel the change is necessary. If you are reviewing PRs for 3.7 (and please do!), be on the lookout for and flag potential incompatibilities (we've all made them). Thanks again for all of your hard work towards making 3.7.0 yet another great release - coming to a website near you on 06-15! --Ned -- Ned Deily nad at python.org -- []