From storchaka at gmail.com  Thu Apr  4 06:50:20 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2019 13:50:20 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>

24.03.19 18:19, Serhiy Storchaka ????:
> Opened an anonymous vote on 
> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stefan-behnel-as-a-core-developer/1054 
> . But if you have concerns or objections, it is better to express them 
> publicly or in private to me.


The results of the voting:

* 30 votes for promote.

* 3 votes for not promote.


So the majority of core developers supports promoting. But votes against 
should not be ignored.


The main concern is that with such low rate we do not need to grant him 
the permission rights to merge. The answer is that we need a maintainer 
for the xml.etree package, and Stefan is already an expert of it. It 
need the core developer status to be an official maintainer.


Maybe this answer convinced those who voted against. If you have other 
concerns, please tell me privately or in public, so that we will know 
what should be changed to make Stefan satisfying the requirements of a 
code developer.


In any case the vote just gives some information for the Steering 
Council. Itsresult does not oblige to certain decisions.

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From brett at python.org  Fri Apr  5 15:33:00 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 12:33:00 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
 <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick update: 3 of us on the council were travelling this week so we
have not privately voted/decided about either candidate yet. My hope is we
will have an answer for both candidate no later than early next week.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 2:50 AM Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com> wrote:

> 24.03.19 18:19, Serhiy Storchaka ????:
>
> Opened an anonymous vote on
> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stefan-behnel-as-a-core-developer/1054
> . But if you have concerns or objections, it is better to express them
> publicly or in private to me.
>
>
> The results of the voting:
>
> * 30 votes for promote.
>
> * 3 votes for not promote.
>
>
> So the majority of core developers supports promoting. But votes against
> should not be ignored.
>
>
> The main concern is that with such low rate we do not need to grant him
> the permission rights to merge. The answer is that we need a maintainer for
> the xml.etree package, and Stefan is already an expert of it. It need the
> core developer status to be an official maintainer.
>
>
> Maybe this answer convinced those who voted against. If you have other
> concerns, please tell me privately or in public, so that we will know what
> should be changed to make Stefan satisfying the requirements of a code
> developer.
>
>
> In any case the vote just gives some information for the Steering Council.
> Its result does not oblige to certain decisions.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From antoine at python.org  Fri Apr  5 15:40:02 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:40:02 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
 <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18a97f62-7023-3923-129d-2d01ad91b206@python.org>


PEP 13 says:
"""
[Core team membership] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds
positive votes in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council.
"""

Since both St?phane and Stefan reached the 2/3 positive votes threshold,
the only question is whether the SC decides to veto their membership
(for I suppose should be an extremely important reason).  Otherwise,
they should be welcome as core developers.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 05/04/2019 ? 21:33, Brett Cannon a ?crit?:
> Just a quick update: 3 of us on the council were travelling this week so
> we have not privately voted/decided about either candidate yet. My hope
> is we will have an answer for both candidate no later than early next week.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 2:50 AM Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com
> <mailto:storchaka at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     24.03.19 18:19, Serhiy Storchaka ????:
>>     Opened an anonymous vote on
>>     https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stefan-behnel-as-a-core-developer/1054
>>     . But if you have concerns or objections, it is better to express
>>     them publicly or in private to me.
> 
> 
>     The results of the voting:
> 
>     * 30 votes for promote.
> 
>     * 3 votes for not promote.
> 
> 
>     So the majority of core developers supports promoting. But votes
>     against should not be ignored.
> 
> 
>     The main concern is that with such low rate we do not need to grant
>     him the permission rights to merge. The answer is that we need a
>     maintainer for the xml.etree package, and Stefan is already an
>     expert of it. It need the core developer status to be an official
>     maintainer.
> 
> 
>     Maybe this answer convinced those who voted against. If you have
>     other concerns, please tell me privately or in public, so that we
>     will know what should be changed to make Stefan satisfying the
>     requirements of a code developer.
> 
> 
>     In any case the vote just gives some information for the Steering
>     Council. Itsresult does not oblige to certain decisions.
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     python-committers mailing list
>     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From brett at python.org  Fri Apr  5 15:44:18 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 12:44:18 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <18a97f62-7023-3923-129d-2d01ad91b206@python.org>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
 <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a97f62-7023-3923-129d-2d01ad91b206@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7deg4jUxGXPLVsVAZ_Vy-Bj5z-y5YA=690RGyBwu0tJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 12:40 PM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> PEP 13 says:
> """
> [Core team membership] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds
> positive votes in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council.
> """
>
> Since both St?phane and Stefan reached the 2/3 positive votes threshold,
> the only question is whether the SC decides to veto their membership
> (for I suppose should be an extremely important reason).  Otherwise,
> they should be welcome as core developers.
>

Correct, so we as the SC need to decide among ourselves if we are going to
veto so I'm not quite following what point this reply is trying to make.

-Brett


>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> Le 05/04/2019 ? 21:33, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> > Just a quick update: 3 of us on the council were travelling this week so
> > we have not privately voted/decided about either candidate yet. My hope
> > is we will have an answer for both candidate no later than early next
> week.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 2:50 AM Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com
> > <mailto:storchaka at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     24.03.19 18:19, Serhiy Storchaka ????:
> >>     Opened an anonymous vote on
> >>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stefan-behnel-as-a-core-developer/1054
> >>     . But if you have concerns or objections, it is better to express
> >>     them publicly or in private to me.
> >
> >
> >     The results of the voting:
> >
> >     * 30 votes for promote.
> >
> >     * 3 votes for not promote.
> >
> >
> >     So the majority of core developers supports promoting. But votes
> >     against should not be ignored.
> >
> >
> >     The main concern is that with such low rate we do not need to grant
> >     him the permission rights to merge. The answer is that we need a
> >     maintainer for the xml.etree package, and Stefan is already an
> >     expert of it. It need the core developer status to be an official
> >     maintainer.
> >
> >
> >     Maybe this answer convinced those who voted against. If you have
> >     other concerns, please tell me privately or in public, so that we
> >     will know what should be changed to make Stefan satisfying the
> >     requirements of a code developer.
> >
> >
> >     In any case the vote just gives some information for the Steering
> >     Council. Itsresult does not oblige to certain decisions.
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     python-committers mailing list
> >     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From antoine at python.org  Fri Apr  5 15:53:44 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:53:44 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7deg4jUxGXPLVsVAZ_Vy-Bj5z-y5YA=690RGyBwu0tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
 <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a97f62-7023-3923-129d-2d01ad91b206@python.org>
 <CAP1=2W7deg4jUxGXPLVsVAZ_Vy-Bj5z-y5YA=690RGyBwu0tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7fc8488a-72a7-44f2-680b-3c1a4cc4efd1@python.org>


Le 05/04/2019 ? 21:44, Brett Cannon a ?crit?:
> 
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 12:40 PM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> 
>     PEP 13 says:
>     """
>     [Core team membership] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds
>     positive votes in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council.
>     """
> 
>     Since both St?phane and Stefan reached the 2/3 positive votes threshold,
>     the only question is whether the SC decides to veto their membership
>     (for I suppose should be an extremely important reason).? Otherwise,
>     they should be welcome as core developers.
> 
> 
> Correct, so we as the SC need to decide among ourselves if we are going
> to veto so I'm not quite following what point this reply is trying to make.

It was not very clear in your message where you talked about "voting"
about either candidate.

Regards

Antoine.

From brett at python.org  Fri Apr  5 16:14:25 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 13:14:25 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <7fc8488a-72a7-44f2-680b-3c1a4cc4efd1@python.org>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
 <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a97f62-7023-3923-129d-2d01ad91b206@python.org>
 <CAP1=2W7deg4jUxGXPLVsVAZ_Vy-Bj5z-y5YA=690RGyBwu0tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <7fc8488a-72a7-44f2-680b-3c1a4cc4efd1@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4abw2VPCDLSYBF+sq4UdXcW+_4=7g7hB7P-rm2pEAzvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 12:53 PM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Le 05/04/2019 ? 21:44, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 12:40 PM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> > <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     PEP 13 says:
> >     """
> >     [Core team membership] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds
> >     positive votes in a core team vote and no veto by the steering
> council.
> >     """
> >
> >     Since both St?phane and Stefan reached the 2/3 positive votes
> threshold,
> >     the only question is whether the SC decides to veto their membership
> >     (for I suppose should be an extremely important reason).  Otherwise,
> >     they should be welcome as core developers.
> >
> >
> > Correct, so we as the SC need to decide among ourselves if we are going
> > to veto so I'm not quite following what point this reply is trying to
> make.
>
> It was not very clear in your message where you talked about "voting"
> about either candidate.
>

For new core devs we basically ask each of the five of us whether anyone
has a reason to object and if they do then we have a discussion and decide
as a group whether that reason warrants a veto. So we "vote" as to whether
anyone has a reason to veto.

I don't think you meant it to come off this way, but that email felt like a
lecture because you didn't ask for clarification and instead just stated
back at me what the process is as if you didn't believe me or any one of
the five of us knew what PEP 13 said on how to handle proposed new core
devs (which we have already handled once with Cheryl; this happens to be
the first time we need to handle two candidates simultaneously). If people
want to ask questions or desire some clarification from the council then
please feel free to ask, but I do ask that we be given the benefit of the
doubt that at least one of the five of us knows what we are doing. ;)
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From antoine at python.org  Fri Apr  5 16:16:02 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 22:16:02 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4abw2VPCDLSYBF+sq4UdXcW+_4=7g7hB7P-rm2pEAzvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>
 <e413c488-e5ba-bb69-79ec-48cf52130a4f@gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W7-XFE7Si7ZQz-nfqDXBj-Rgg0C4rJ1AYn2_wSwV9xY=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <18a97f62-7023-3923-129d-2d01ad91b206@python.org>
 <CAP1=2W7deg4jUxGXPLVsVAZ_Vy-Bj5z-y5YA=690RGyBwu0tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <7fc8488a-72a7-44f2-680b-3c1a4cc4efd1@python.org>
 <CAP1=2W4abw2VPCDLSYBF+sq4UdXcW+_4=7g7hB7P-rm2pEAzvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ada37e5c-48e7-a9e5-e27b-7c984f841506@python.org>


Le 05/04/2019 ? 22:14, Brett Cannon a ?crit?:
> 
> I don't think you meant it to come off this way, but that email felt
> like a lecture because you didn't ask for clarification and instead just
> stated back at me what the process is as if you didn't believe me or any
> one of the five of us knew what PEP 13 said on how to handle proposed
> new core devs (which we have already handled once with Cheryl; this
> happens to be the first time we need to handle two candidates
> simultaneously). If people want to ask questions or desire some
> clarification from the council then please feel free to ask, but I do
> ask that we be given the benefit of the doubt that at least one of the
> five of us knows what we are doing. ;)

Ah, sorry.  No, I was just misunderstanding your original message.

Regards

Antoine.


From angwerzx at 126.com  Sun Apr  7 07:48:34 2019
From: angwerzx at 126.com (Xiang Zhang)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 19:48:34 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
Message-ID: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>

Dear God, could we focus our communication methods Dear God, could we focus our communication methods on Python related issues?
Plz don?t correlate Python with politics related issues. It?s really, really not suitable.

https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-do-something-for-996-programmers-in-china/1119/11
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From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Sun Apr  7 08:41:55 2019
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 15:41:55 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
In-Reply-To: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
References: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
Message-ID: <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 3:19 PM Xiang Zhang <angwerzx at 126.com> wrote:
> https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-do-something-for-996-programmers-in-china/1119/11

Hi Xiang,

Perhaps I'm missing some context here, but Guido's first post in the
thread you've linked isn't about politics (nor a discussion about
comparing ideologies of different governments) It's about basic human
rights.

--Berker

From angwerzx at 126.com  Sun Apr  7 09:11:26 2019
From: angwerzx at 126.com (Xiang Zhang)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 21:11:26 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
 <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <603fada9.1c89.169f7ecd047.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>

Ohh, good. So our Python organization is one chasing for worldwide human rights?
Then I?d better first ask what?s next? Are you going to shed more democratic light to Chinese?


I don't mean Guido's intention is wrong. I am very thankful for it but it's not
in the right place. And in my experience, I don't think it'll finally shut down at
a human right issue. 
At 2019-04-07 20:41:55, "Berker Peksa?" <berker.peksag at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 3:19 PM Xiang Zhang <angwerzx at 126.com> wrote:
>> https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-do-something-for-996-programmers-in-china/1119/11
>
>Hi Xiang,
>
>Perhaps I'm missing some context here, but Guido's first post in the
>thread you've linked isn't about politics (nor a discussion about
>comparing ideologies of different governments) It's about basic human
>rights.
>
>--Berker
>_______________________________________________
>python-committers mailing list
>python-committers at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
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From antoine at python.org  Sun Apr  7 11:19:32 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 17:19:32 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
 <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eeddcc4a-e7eb-011c-a765-d90c25f240fe@python.org>


Le 07/04/2019 ? 14:41, Berker Peksa? a ?crit?:
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 3:19 PM Xiang Zhang <angwerzx at 126.com> wrote:
>> https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-do-something-for-996-programmers-in-china/1119/11
> 
> Hi Xiang,
> 
> Perhaps I'm missing some context here, but Guido's first post in the
> thread you've linked isn't about politics (nor a discussion about
> comparing ideologies of different governments) It's about basic human
> rights.

I'm fully in favour of workers' rights, and I hope workers all over the
world (not only computer programmers, and not only in China) unite and
manage to get better conditions.

However, I agree with Xiang Zhang that it is out of scope of
*python-dev* communication channels.

Invoking "human rights" can be contentious when it comes to dictating
the policy of foreign countries, as it tends to negate the political
aspect of said interference.  Yet, western countries don't have exactly
a stellar record when it comes to interfering with dosmetic affairs of
foreign countries.  Perhaps some Chinese people have reasons to be
afraid when they see those good-willed initiatives done in the name of
basic human rights.  There's also sometimes quite a bit of selective
outrage at play, targeted (deliberately or not) at non-US-allies.

Saying this isn't about politics is a bit fooling oneself IMHO.  Working
conditions are a political question, and a political choice.  It has
been since the XIXth century at least. Contemporary western societies
have quite a bit to improve in that regard, especially as they seem to
adopt more and more anti-worker policies...  (and, no, it's not the
"populist right".  Look at all mainstream governments since the 1980s,
left or right, and the kind of structural shifts in economic balance
they have favoured.)

Regards

Antoine.

From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Sun Apr  7 12:42:06 2019
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 19:42:06 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
In-Reply-To: <eeddcc4a-e7eb-011c-a765-d90c25f240fe@python.org>
References: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
 <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <eeddcc4a-e7eb-011c-a765-d90c25f240fe@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAF4280KSDVOWo2BoF8V7rnE7Sb590JHTG10kFJEj-huxt+wzYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 6:19 PM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
> Perhaps some Chinese people have reasons to be
> afraid when they see those good-willed initiatives done in the name of
> basic human rights.

I'm very familiar with the "they keep talking about democracy and
human rights so let's stick to our government and its policies"
mindset (they start to teach you this in elementary school in my home
country) and I think it only helps politicians to use people's
'support' to oppress them even more.

> Saying this isn't about politics is a bit fooling oneself IMHO.  Working
> conditions are a political question, and a political choice.  It has
> been since the XIXth century at least. Contemporary western societies
> have quite a bit to improve in that regard, especially as they seem to
> adopt more and more anti-worker policies...  (and, no, it's not the
> "populist right".  Look at all mainstream governments since the 1980s,
> left or right, and the kind of structural shifts in economic balance
> they have favoured.)

I think that depends on what do you understand from the term
'politics'. I said it's not about politics, because when people
discuss things with their political hat on, they tend to distort facts
and defend policies that are against them. IMO, every individual would
want to work in better conditions regardless of their opinions on
politics (freedom of speech, cheap education, and better health care
can be added to that list) Of course, as you pointed out, it doesn't
mean they will always make their political choices based on these
thoughts :)

--Berker

From antoine at python.org  Sun Apr  7 12:45:09 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 18:45:09 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280KSDVOWo2BoF8V7rnE7Sb590JHTG10kFJEj-huxt+wzYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
 <CAF4280LZSF+8b=GRGNzoAz6K4xEmtkgAwfm_=McFiDGN_Sd9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <eeddcc4a-e7eb-011c-a765-d90c25f240fe@python.org>
 <CAF4280KSDVOWo2BoF8V7rnE7Sb590JHTG10kFJEj-huxt+wzYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d53fc809-79a8-8fa8-e7f7-63fcd862ca10@python.org>


Le 07/04/2019 ? 18:42, Berker Peksa? a ?crit?:
> 
> IMO, every individual would
> want to work in better conditions regardless of their opinions on
> politics (freedom of speech, cheap education, and better health care
> can be added to that list) Of course, as you pointed out, it doesn't
> mean they will always make their political choices based on these
> thoughts :)

Right.  If there weren't some contradictory economic interests at play,
politics would be easier. ;-)

Regards

Antoine.

From vstinner at redhat.com  Mon Apr  8 04:31:35 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:31:35 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] =?utf-8?q?St=C3=A9phane_Wirtel_has_been_prom?=
	=?utf-8?q?oted_as_a_core_developer?=
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGG=VmN4HyRVr74MsChoM8k4GPoiwsfafePPC1r-W91CFA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

St?phane Wirtel has been promoted as a core developer: Welcome aboard
St?phane ?! I asked him to introduce himself on the
python-committers, but he is currently in holiday (and I am not sure
that he is subscribed to the list yet).

The Steering Committee approved the promotion, but asked Julien and me
(who proposed St?phane) to extend the mentoring period to 2 mentors.
Julien and me are fine with that, we already planned to decide
together when St?phane will be fully confident with his new
responsibilities.

Julien Palard and me (Victor Stinner) will mentor him ?strictly? for
at least 2 months: St?phane will have to ask us before merging a pull
request. We plan to discuss together to decide when the strict
mentoring ends. Right now, we are updating everything to make St?phane
Wirtel officially a core dev.

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From vstinner at redhat.com  Mon Apr  8 04:36:09 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:36:09 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?St=C3=A9phane_Wirtel_has_been_prom?=
	=?utf-8?q?oted_as_a_core_developer?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGG=VmN4HyRVr74MsChoM8k4GPoiwsfafePPC1r-W91CFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGG=VmN4HyRVr74MsChoM8k4GPoiwsfafePPC1r-W91CFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHzPbVvJkmKHd84knV4Cai2iKYDpPUbGwhGgYcpYmVj9g@mail.gmail.com>

The vote to promote St?phane Wirtel occurred at:
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stephane-wirtel-as-a-core-dev/1044

Extract of the message opening the vote:

Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.

St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice features:

* -d option of ?python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY? to serve a
specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
* ?fast and --best options on gzip CLI: ?python3 -m gzip [options] file?

(Julien told me that he frequently uses ?python3 -m http.server -d
DIRECTORY? to read the Python documentation :-))

In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
any change on his code. It?s not an issue to work with him, it?s more
the opposite For example, he doesn?t get mad if one of his PR is
rejected (I?m saying that because I sometimes get mad about that,
sorry for being emotional :-))

He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git (?Patch written
by St?phane Wirtel?).

He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
June 2016 for that: ?St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
spreading the PSF?s mission.?

https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016

He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
or being a volunteer on-site.

He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
(France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
workflow and Pull Requests.

He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).

He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
says ?Thank you for your contribution? which is IMHO a good practice
for a healthy community (we don?t do that often enough!)

St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn?t sure to promote him
myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn?t objective about
his work. But well, now it?s time, and Julien is supporting his
promotion as well

I offer to mentor St?phane once he would become a core dev for 1 month
(*) for help him to deal with his new responsibilities. I would
require him to ask me before merging any PR during the mentoring.

Links:

* https://wirtel.be/
* https://twitter.com/matrixise

Julien and Victor

Note: (*) the mentoring has been extend to at least 2 months, Julien
and me will mentor him as we are already mentoring him for 1 year.


Le lun. 8 avr. 2019 ? 10:31, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a ?crit :
>
> Hi,
>
> St?phane Wirtel has been promoted as a core developer: Welcome aboard
> St?phane ! I asked him to introduce himself on the
> python-committers, but he is currently in holiday (and I am not sure
> that he is subscribed to the list yet).
>
> The Steering Committee approved the promotion, but asked Julien and me
> (who proposed St?phane) to extend the mentoring period to 2 mentors.
> Julien and me are fine with that, we already planned to decide
> together when St?phane will be fully confident with his new
> responsibilities.
>
> Julien Palard and me (Victor Stinner) will mentor him ?strictly? for
> at least 2 months: St?phane will have to ask us before merging a pull
> request. We plan to discuss together to decide when the strict
> mentoring ends. Right now, we are updating everything to make St?phane
> Wirtel officially a core dev.
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.



-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From brett at python.org  Mon Apr  8 15:28:50 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 12:28:50 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse,
 mail list on Python related issues?
In-Reply-To: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
References: <3d9d4a61.19b2.169f7a0f3f2.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7Ho8Lu2SwEu8URQx6w2hYS4w+ugHR5d6QSr4kAba5jVA@mail.gmail.com>

FYI that thread has now been locked (I let through some posts that got held
up in moderation prior to the locking, but otherwise nothing more will be
put there).

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 5:19 AM Xiang Zhang <angwerzx at 126.com> wrote:

> Dear God, could we focus our communication methods Dear God, could we
> focus our communication methods on Python related issues?
> Plz don?t correlate Python with politics related issues. It?s really,
> really not suitable.
>
>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-do-something-for-996-programmers-in-china/1119/11
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From brett at python.org  Mon Apr  8 16:02:23 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 13:02:23 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?St=C3=A9phane_Wirtel_has_been_prom?=
	=?utf-8?q?oted_as_a_core_developer?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGG=VmN4HyRVr74MsChoM8k4GPoiwsfafePPC1r-W91CFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGG=VmN4HyRVr74MsChoM8k4GPoiwsfafePPC1r-W91CFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W6jdQADDC40-tY1QRrwUn87aofWkgad6_zu6WFj-V1jbg@mail.gmail.com>

Stephane has now been subscribed (as well as all other bookkeeping for
becoming a core dev).

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 1:32 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> St?phane Wirtel has been promoted as a core developer: Welcome aboard
> St?phane ?! I asked him to introduce himself on the
> python-committers, but he is currently in holiday (and I am not sure
> that he is subscribed to the list yet).
>
> The Steering Committee approved the promotion, but asked Julien and me
> (who proposed St?phane) to extend the mentoring period to 2 mentors.
> Julien and me are fine with that, we already planned to decide
> together when St?phane will be fully confident with his new
> responsibilities.
>
> Julien Palard and me (Victor Stinner) will mentor him ?strictly? for
> at least 2 months: St?phane will have to ask us before merging a pull
> request. We plan to discuss together to decide when the strict
> mentoring ends. Right now, we are updating everything to make St?phane
> Wirtel officially a core dev.
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From brett at python.org  Mon Apr  8 16:04:32 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 13:04:32 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>

<this space intentionally left blank since the subject says it all :) >
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From antoine at python.org  Mon Apr  8 16:07:06 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 22:07:06 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbe55841-a238-0f37-f886-240528aa0b15@python.org>


Welcome Stefan and St?phane !


Le 08/04/2019 ? 22:04, Brett Cannon a ?crit?:
> <this space intentionally left blank since the subject says it all :) >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 18:11:07 2019
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:11:07 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <dbe55841-a238-0f37-f886-240528aa0b15@python.org>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbe55841-a238-0f37-f886-240528aa0b15@python.org>
Message-ID: <CACac1F8LoHm=W8UrVOqUFqL3BbZGsC1WW90AqsBydkTY5McUwA@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome!

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 21:07, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
>
> Welcome Stefan and St?phane !
>
>
> Le 08/04/2019 ? 22:04, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> > <this space intentionally left blank since the subject says it all :) >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Apr  9 01:49:25 2019
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 07:49:25 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>

Thanks, everyone, for bringing me in!

I don't have much to add to what was written here about myself recently,
except that I'm happy to join, and flattered by the result of the vote. I'm
currently working on some XML issues for the stdlib, I'll see where that
gets us.

There were a couple of counter-votes in the poll, and that's perfectly ok,
but if anyone wants to talk to me about them in private, here's my e-mail
address.

Hope to meet some of you at EuroPython this year!

Best,
Stefan


From willingc at gmail.com  Tue Apr  9 02:22:51 2019
From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:22:51 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>
Message-ID: <CAM3VvhzuHj=2w=1T0cq+pZ8t_FYqvMJW1FDd-UgRQ53vvzV8iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome Stefan :D

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 10:53 PM Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:

> Thanks, everyone, for bringing me in!
>
> I don't have much to add to what was written here about myself recently,
> except that I'm happy to join, and flattered by the result of the vote. I'm
> currently working on some XML issues for the stdlib, I'll see where that
> gets us.
>
> There were a couple of counter-votes in the poll, and that's perfectly ok,
> but if anyone wants to talk to me about them in private, here's my e-mail
> address.
>
> Hope to meet some of you at EuroPython this year!
>
> Best,
> Stefan
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
*Carol Willing*

Research Software Engineer
Project Jupyter at Cal Poly SLO

cawillin at calpoly.edu

*Signature strengths*
*Empathy - Relator - Ideation - Strategic - Learner*
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From kushaldas at gmail.com  Tue Apr  9 03:09:37 2019
From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 12:39:37 +0530
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAzeMbyzc1xVRAkV3tF-zP_C-AT4Jnc5n4GHVYH2cqWe7i_RXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:34 AM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>
> <this space intentionally left blank since the subject says it all :) >
Welcome :)

Kushal
-- 
Staff, Freedom of the Press Foundation
CPython Core Developer
Director, Python Software Foundation
https://kushaldas.in

From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Tue Apr  9 04:00:51 2019
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:00:51 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>
Message-ID: <CACac1F9Z_EdRmdcuZ24g310qH_psDh1_tDqTmV9EU+Se-yOuyw@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome, Stefan, nice to have you with us :-)

On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 06:53, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
>
> Thanks, everyone, for bringing me in!
>
> I don't have much to add to what was written here about myself recently,
> except that I'm happy to join, and flattered by the result of the vote. I'm
> currently working on some XML issues for the stdlib, I'll see where that
> gets us.
>
> There were a couple of counter-votes in the poll, and that's perfectly ok,
> but if anyone wants to talk to me about them in private, here's my e-mail
> address.
>
> Hope to meet some of you at EuroPython this year!
>
> Best,
> Stefan
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

From vstinner at redhat.com  Tue Apr  9 05:39:22 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 11:39:22 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!
In-Reply-To: <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>
References: <CAP1=2W5L-1i5hTFfMYDU+5+NDEAxA1Bd8dehVHBZE8DewtRu5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <e00a8642-8a55-7143-0749-445380e7985f@behnel.de>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGF7eod1BXOy-t+G=eV8dtCqN5e9qu_vs9TATFdan7ZRzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I discussed two weeks ago with Stefan and I told him that I was
surprised that he is now a core dev yet. Serhiy organized a vote and
I'm not surprised by the result: welcome aboard Stefan! I'm sure that
your Cython and XML experience will be very useful.

Victor

Le mar. 9 avr. 2019 ? 07:53, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> a ?crit :
>
> Thanks, everyone, for bringing me in!
>
> I don't have much to add to what was written here about myself recently,
> except that I'm happy to join, and flattered by the result of the vote. I'm
> currently working on some XML issues for the stdlib, I'll see where that
> gets us.
>
> There were a couple of counter-votes in the poll, and that's perfectly ok,
> but if anyone wants to talk to me about them in private, here's my e-mail
> address.
>
> Hope to meet some of you at EuroPython this year!
>
> Best,
> Stefan
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/



-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From stephane at wirtel.be  Mon Apr 15 07:10:31 2019
From: stephane at wirtel.be (Stephane Wirtel)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:10:31 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Hello
Message-ID: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>

Hello everyone,

Thank you. It's just a dream come true. When I started to contribute to
Python, I didn't think I would become a core-dev. I am really honoured
becoming a member of this famous team.

I know there were counter-votes during the poll and I understand them.
I will do so with extra care so nobody will be disappointed for this
decision. If you want to send me your vote in private, please do
it, I love to improve.

Now, I will continue to work with Victor and Julien and you.

For example, improving the documentation and the mentoring for the new
contributors and certainly to become an expert of some modules.

As a final note, I would like to thank Victor and Julien for their
trust and the encouragement in this process.

PS: The vote was really stressing because I was at PyCon SK
during the process, without my family and my friends.

Sorry for my late introduction, I was on holiday.

Have a nice day and hope see you at PyCon US in 2 weeks.

Cheers,

St?phane

-- 
St?phane Wirtel - https://wirtel.be - @matrixise

From zachary.ware+pydev at gmail.com  Mon Apr 15 09:52:00 2019
From: zachary.ware+pydev at gmail.com (Zachary Ware)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 08:52:00 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Hello
In-Reply-To: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>
References: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>
Message-ID: <CAKJDb-OcJAMFKzXB0x5C_k-0uzjxB0P4qyCDps_xas9WC5oc6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 6:10 AM Stephane Wirtel <stephane at wirtel.be> wrote:
> Hello everyone,

Welcome aboard, Stephane! :)

-- 
Zach

From stephane at wirtel.be  Mon Apr 15 10:08:52 2019
From: stephane at wirtel.be (Stephane Wirtel)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 16:08:52 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Hello
In-Reply-To: <CAKJDb-OcJAMFKzXB0x5C_k-0uzjxB0P4qyCDps_xas9WC5oc6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>
 <CAKJDb-OcJAMFKzXB0x5C_k-0uzjxB0P4qyCDps_xas9WC5oc6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20190415140852.hogfpdr2m6unjuiz@xps>

On 04/15, Zachary Ware wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 6:10 AM Stephane Wirtel <stephane at wirtel.be> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>
>Welcome aboard, Stephane! :)

Thank you Zachary, it's a real pleasure to be in the CPython adventure.

Have a nice day,

St?phane

-- 
St?phane Wirtel - https://wirtel.be - @matrixise

From antoine at python.org  Mon Apr 15 16:35:12 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 22:35:12 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Hello
In-Reply-To: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>
References: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>
Message-ID: <e76a794e-22a9-f8da-2407-4fcf00db719b@python.org>


Welcome / Bienvenue St?phane !

Regards

Antoine.


Le 15/04/2019 ? 13:10, Stephane Wirtel a ?crit?:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Thank you. It's just a dream come true. When I started to contribute to
> Python, I didn't think I would become a core-dev. I am really honoured
> becoming a member of this famous team.
> 
> I know there were counter-votes during the poll and I understand them.
> I will do so with extra care so nobody will be disappointed for this
> decision. If you want to send me your vote in private, please do
> it, I love to improve.
> 
> Now, I will continue to work with Victor and Julien and you.
> 
> For example, improving the documentation and the mentoring for the new
> contributors and certainly to become an expert of some modules.
> 
> As a final note, I would like to thank Victor and Julien for their
> trust and the encouragement in this process.
> 
> PS: The vote was really stressing because I was at PyCon SK
> during the process, without my family and my friends.
> 
> Sorry for my late introduction, I was on holiday.
> 
> Have a nice day and hope see you at PyCon US in 2 weeks.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> St?phane
> 

From stephane at wirtel.be  Tue Apr 16 10:48:33 2019
From: stephane at wirtel.be (=?utf-8?B?U3TDqXBoYW5l?= Wirtel)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 16:48:33 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Hello
In-Reply-To: <e76a794e-22a9-f8da-2407-4fcf00db719b@python.org>
References: <20190415111031.aciafpjjfjd5bg6r@xps>
 <e76a794e-22a9-f8da-2407-4fcf00db719b@python.org>
Message-ID: <20190416144833.v6jql5ccrvx7m4jm@xps>

Thank you, Merci,

St?phane

-- 
St?phane Wirtel - https://wirtel.be - @matrixise

From brett at python.org  Wed Apr 17 13:01:41 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:01:41 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Vote on changes to PEP 13 to specify voting
 time frames
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4yvn8iPEJFd1kTGk_pzT4QS4mko4iSmUc6EXTc7wOnLA@mail.gmail.com>

https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-on-pep-13-change-to-specify-voting-time-frames/1510

Summary: one week to vote for new core devs, two weeks for PEP 13 changes
(which is how long I set the vote on Discourse to be open for). This change
is approved by the steering council.

And as a reminder, changes to PEP 13 require a 2/3 approval by voters.
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From guido at python.org  Fri Apr 26 10:48:49 2019
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:48:49 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>

I've posted an update from the Steering Council to our repo:

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/master/updates/2019-04-26_steering-council-update.md

I will also link to this on python-dev and on Discourse (discuss.python.org
).

For completeness, below is the full text.

# Steering Council Update

Date: 2019-04-26

Steering Council updates will be posted irregularly and as needed.
We strive to post at least once every month.  We provide these updates
to foster open and transparent communication about Steering Council
activity.

## Message from the Steering Council

Sorry we've been silent for a while!  We've all been swamped with
work, but we've been meeting regularly.  Below are some of the
outcomes of our conversations.  Many of you will be happy to hear that
we've cleared the backlog of PEPs by assigning BDFL-Delegates to
almost all outstanding PEPs.  We're also appearing at PyCon US.

---

## Mandate

This section organizes Steering Council (SC) activity and projects
using the mandates listed in PEP 13.

### Language

> Maintain the quality and stability of the Python language and CPython
interpreter

- We've begun to explore the options for improving the interpreter in
  the future, but apart from the PEP work detailed below we've not come to
any
  conclusions yet.  In the coming months we hope to come up with
  guidelines and a process for evolving the interpreter, to be
  developed in close participation with the core developers and
  representatives of various user bases.

### Contributors

> Make contributing as accessible, inclusive, and sustainable as possible

- **Communications channels:** We have an array of communication
  options, depending on the context.

  - To reach core committers specifically, we will use
    python-committers at python.org.

  - To reach the entire Python developer community, we will use
    python-dev at python.org.

  - For specific requests to the SC, please use
    the public GitHub tracker at
https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues.

  - To reach just the SC, you can email us at
    steering-council at python.org.

  - We will also occasionally use Discourse, at
    https://discuss.python.org (for example, Discourse is useful for
    polls and votes).

- **Issue tracker:** We've discussed PEP 581, "Using GitHub Issues for
  CPython" by Mariatta Wijaya.  We're in favor of this move, and feel
  that the transition should be professionally planned and executed.
  In collaboration with the PSF we're exploring ideas on how to do
  that (using the successful roll-out of the new Warehouse
  infrastructure for PyPI as a model).


### PEPs

> Establish appropriate decision-making processes for PEPs

- To request a PEP review, please file an issue on the
  [SC issue tracker](https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues).

- We've appointed BDFL-Delegates (BDs) to a number of PEPs, after
  ensuring that the proposed BD and the PEP author(s) agree on the
  appointment:

  - PEP 558 "Defined semantics for locals()", Nick Coghlan.
    *Appointed Nathaniel J. Smith as BD.*

  - PEP 497, "A standard mechanism for backward compatibility", Ed
Schofield.
    *Appointed Brett Cannon as BD on behalf of the SC.*

  - PEP 387 "Backwards Compatibility Policy", Benjamin Peterson.
    *Appointed Brett Cannon as BD on behalf of the SC.*

  - PEP 554, "Multiple Interpreters in the Stdlib", Eric Snow.
    *Appointed Antoine Pitrou as BD.* (BD and author have indicated
    that this PEP will be postponed until Python 3.9.)

  - PEP 586, PEP 589, PEP 591 (various typing PEPs by members of the
    mypy team and others, topics Literal, TypedDict, and Final).
    *Appointed Guido van Rossum as BD.*  (PEP 544, Protocols, also
    belongs in this list; Guido made himself BD last year.)

  - PEP 578, "Python Runtime Audit Hooks", Steve Dower.
    *Appointed Christian Heimes as BD.*

  - PEPs 576, 579, 580, 590 (competing PEPs on C function call
    optimizations by Mark Shannon and Jeroen Demeyer; note that PEP
    576 is withdrawn in favor of PEP 590).
    *Appointed Petr Viktorin as BD.*

  - PEP 533, "Deterministic cleanup for iterators", Nathaniel J. Smith.
    *Appointed Yury Selivanov as BD.*

  - PEP 570, "Python Positional-Only Parameters", by Larry Hastings,
    Pablo Galindo and others.
    *Appointed Guido van Rossum as BD.*  (And he approved it!)

  - PEP 574, "Pickle protocol 5 with out-of-band data", Antoine Pitrou.
    *Appointed Nick Coghlan as BD.*

  - PEP 573, "Module State Access from C Extension Methods", Petr
    Viktorin and others.
    *Postponed to Python 3.9.  Appointed Stefan Behnel as BD.*

- And we've updated the status of some other PEPs:

  - PEP 557 "Data Classes", Eric V Smith.  *Marked Final.*

  - PEP 467 "Minor API improvements for binary sequences", Nick
    Coghlan, Ethan Furman.  *Deferred.*

### Interaction with PSF

> Formalize and maintain the relationship between the core team and the PSF

- The PSF Code of Conduct Workgroup is working on a revision of the CoC.
Brett and Carol
  serve on the Workgroup.

- We've agreed to a panel discussion at PyCon US in Cleveland, Sunday
  morning May 5th between 9:20am and 10:00am.

### Governance

> Seek consensus among contributors and the core team before acting in a
formal capacity,
> Act as a "court of final appeal" for decisions where all other methods
have failed.

- Established a weekly SC meeting cadence (Tuesdays 3-4pm US West Coast
time).

- We proposed two updates to PEP 13, setting the voting period for new
  core devs to one week and for PEP 13 changes to two weeks.
  The vote is still ongoing on Discourse:

https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-on-pep-13-change-to-specify-voting-time-frames/1510

---

## Reference

This reference section summarizes the Steering Council's mandate and powers.

### Mandate (PEP 13)

The steering council shall work to:

- Maintain the quality and stability of the Python language and
  CPython interpreter,
- Make contributing as accessible, inclusive, and sustainable as
  possible,
- Formalize and maintain the relationship between the core team and
  the PSF,
- Establish appropriate decision-making processes for PEPs,
- Seek consensus among contributors and the core team before acting in
  a formal capacity,
- Act as a "court of final appeal" for decisions where all other
  methods have failed.

### Powers (PEP 13)

The council has broad authority to make decisions about the project.
For example, they can:

- Accept or reject PEPs
- Enforce or update the project's code of conduct
- Work with the PSF to manage any project assets
- Delegate parts of their authority to other subcommittees or
  processes

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him/his **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
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From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 12:12:26 2019
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 19:12:26 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 5:55 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> - **Issue tracker:** We've discussed PEP 581, "Using GitHub Issues for
>   CPython" by Mariatta Wijaya.  We're in favor of this move, and feel
>   that the transition should be professionally planned and executed.
>   In collaboration with the PSF we're exploring ideas on how to do
>   that (using the successful roll-out of the new Warehouse
>   infrastructure for PyPI as a model).

I don't think there was a consensus on switching to GitHub Issues last
time it was discussed. The most recent discussion about PEP 581 only
has 12 messages. I think the council is making a premature decision
here.

I'm strongly against using GitHub Issues. I will change my mind once I
see a sign that GitHub is actually listening to our feedback. We can't
even get them to make the use of #NNNN and GH-NNNN in the commit title
configurable (https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/77)
and have the ability to automatically strip intermediate commit
messages from the commit message body
(https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/153) The
only time I got a response from them was this:
https://github.com/python/miss-islington/issues/16#issuecomment-396095622

I volunteered to maintain our Roundup instance a while ago and already
fixed some bugs: https://hg.python.org/tracker/python-dev/ I've also
submit patches to improve UX and fix issues. I'd list list them here
but I can't reach out to http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/ at
the moment. I hope the problem with the hosting is temporary because I
have several non-trivial patches there.

--Berker

From barry at python.org  Fri Apr 26 14:49:56 2019
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 11:49:56 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60F90935-FF93-479E-A655-E8DC912517A6@python.org>

On Apr 26, 2019, at 09:12, Berker Peksa? <berker.peksag at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think there was a consensus on switching to GitHub Issues last
> time it was discussed. The most recent discussion about PEP 581 only
> has 12 messages. I think the council is making a premature decision
> here.

Technically speaking, the PEP is still in Draft state.  I have a PR up for splitting the migration into two separate PEPs, one for the rationale and a second one for the migration plan:

https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1013

> I'm strongly against using GitHub Issues. I will change my mind once I
> see a sign that GitHub is actually listening to our feedback. We can't
> even get them to make the use of #NNNN and GH-NNNN in the commit title
> configurable (https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/77)
> and have the ability to automatically strip intermediate commit
> messages from the commit message body
> (https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/153) The
> only time I got a response from them was this:
> https://github.com/python/miss-islington/issues/16#issuecomment-396095622

It would be very helpful if you could add these comments to the PR.

> I volunteered to maintain our Roundup instance a while ago and already
> fixed some bugs: https://hg.python.org/tracker/python-dev/ I've also
> submit patches to improve UX and fix issues. I'd list list them here
> but I can't reach out to http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/ at
> the moment. I hope the problem with the hosting is temporary because I
> have several non-trivial patches there.

And as a fan of Roundup and its critical importance to the Python development process, I want to personally thank you for all your ?and everyone who has contributed to it over the years? hard work in maintaining it.

Cheers,
-Barry

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From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 16:44:56 2019
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 23:44:56 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W69gWkTHO7ZRHoJ=JR1odAxB6NnHCC692T1_Duj0DBDgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W69gWkTHO7ZRHoJ=JR1odAxB6NnHCC692T1_Duj0DBDgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF4280+eYoG2+bSa5nnuYYnvxq9JecS9ktc1ea7JFfmyHoPuVA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 11:37 PM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
> Because that repo is private I will say that the last comment on that issue was exactly a month ago from someone at GitHub saying that they are looking into this feature request.

Thank you, I forgot those links are private. I'll also note that the
issue was opened almost 1,5 years ago.

Based on their recent track record, I'm pretty sure they are going to
come up with a solution that's totally unsuitable to our workflow :)

--Berker

From brett at python.org  Fri Apr 26 16:37:15 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 13:37:15 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W69gWkTHO7ZRHoJ=JR1odAxB6NnHCC692T1_Duj0DBDgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:26 AM Berker Peksa? <berker.peksag at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 5:55 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> > - **Issue tracker:** We've discussed PEP 581, "Using GitHub Issues for
> >   CPython" by Mariatta Wijaya.  We're in favor of this move, and feel
> >   that the transition should be professionally planned and executed.
> >   In collaboration with the PSF we're exploring ideas on how to do
> >   that (using the successful roll-out of the new Warehouse
> >   infrastructure for PyPI as a model).
>
> I don't think there was a consensus on switching to GitHub Issues last
> time it was discussed. The most recent discussion about PEP 581 only
> has 12 messages. I think the council is making a premature decision
> here.
>
> I'm strongly against using GitHub Issues. I will change my mind once I
> see a sign that GitHub is actually listening to our feedback. We can't
> even get them to make the use of #NNNN and GH-NNNN in the commit title
> configurable (
> https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/77)
>

Because that repo is private I will say that the last comment on that issue
was exactly a month ago from someone at GitHub saying that they are looking
into this feature request.

-Brett


> and have the ability to automatically strip intermediate commit
> messages from the commit message body
> (https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/153) The
> only time I got a response from them was this:
> https://github.com/python/miss-islington/issues/16#issuecomment-396095622
>
> I volunteered to maintain our Roundup instance a while ago and already
> fixed some bugs: https://hg.python.org/tracker/python-dev/ I've also
> submit patches to improve UX and fix issues. I'd list list them here
> but I can't reach out to http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/ at
> the moment. I hope the problem with the hosting is temporary because I
> have several non-trivial patches there.
>
> --Berker
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 16:48:46 2019
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 23:48:46 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <60F90935-FF93-479E-A655-E8DC912517A6@python.org>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <60F90935-FF93-479E-A655-E8DC912517A6@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAF4280K0oVGnO8ZT5H6BW602fMwrXA5-nz0N9xFj3OqCnMLLuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:50 PM Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> It would be very helpful if you could add these comments to the PR.

Sure, I just left a comment there.

> And as a fan of Roundup and its critical importance to the Python development process, I want to personally thank you for all your ?and everyone who has contributed to it over the years? hard work in maintaining it.

Thank you! :)

--Berker

From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 23:46:19 2019
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2019 05:46:19 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:18 PM Berker Peksa? <berker.peksag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 5:55 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> > - **Issue tracker:** We've discussed PEP 581, "Using GitHub Issues for
> >   CPython" by Mariatta Wijaya.  We're in favor of this move, and feel
> >   that the transition should be professionally planned and executed.
> >   In collaboration with the PSF we're exploring ideas on how to do
> >   that (using the successful roll-out of the new Warehouse
> >   infrastructure for PyPI as a model).
>
> I don't think there was a consensus on switching to GitHub Issues last
> time it was discussed. The most recent discussion about PEP 581 only
> has 12 messages. I think the council is making a premature decision
> here.
>

Recently Ernest migrated the tracker on a new machine, and he has been
working on setting up a new test tracker.
On the Roundup side, they have been working on porting Roundup to
Python 3 and integrating the REST API we developed a few years ago
with a GSoC student.
I also submitted another GSoC proposal for this year with the goal of
updating Roundup on b.p.o and writing tools that take advantage of the
REST API (http://python-gsoc.org/psf_ideas.html).
I was planning to write to python-committers and ask what features do
we want to develop first, but I was already coordinating between
Ernest, the Roundup folks, and GSoC admin/students so I was waiting to
make sure things were viable before involving python-committers.  On
May 9 we will know for sure if we got a student, but things are
currently looking good.

I'm also aware of PEP 581 and the fact that we might eventually decide
to abandon Roundup, however this work will still benefit Roundup and
its users regardless of what we end up doing -- that's why I went
ahead and submitted the proposal without discussing it with
python-committers first.

> I'm strongly against using GitHub Issues. I will change my mind once I
> see a sign that GitHub is actually listening to our feedback. We can't
> even get them to make the use of #NNNN and GH-NNNN in the commit title
> configurable (https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/77)
> and have the ability to automatically strip intermediate commit
> messages from the commit message body
> (https://github.com/maintainers/early-access-feedback/issues/153) The
> only time I got a response from them was this:
> https://github.com/python/miss-islington/issues/16#issuecomment-396095622
>
> I volunteered to maintain our Roundup instance a while ago and already
> fixed some bugs: https://hg.python.org/tracker/python-dev/ I've also
> submit patches to improve UX and fix issues. I'd list list them here
> but I can't reach out to http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/ at
> the moment. I hope the problem with the hosting is temporary because I
> have several non-trivial patches there.
>

The meta tracker at upfronthosting is gone for good, but nothing is
lost, we have backups and can retrieve the patches if we need them.

Best Regards,
Ezio Melotti

> --Berker

From vstinner at redhat.com  Sat Apr 27 09:55:27 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2019 15:55:27 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFuHu0O-wZ_bV4gYxFQUSLYOF2O-_4erdwc9tpxd0bnXw@mail.gmail.com>

Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a
deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?

Victor

-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
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From guido at python.org  Sat Apr 27 16:45:01 2019
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2019 13:45:01 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFuHu0O-wZ_bV4gYxFQUSLYOF2O-_4erdwc9tpxd0bnXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFuHu0O-wZ_bV4gYxFQUSLYOF2O-_4erdwc9tpxd0bnXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJKOXOrvr9L=nf9czHFTAF8VAtJNbotJjoXjJLQ0F7anGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a
> deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?
>

It was not a deliberate choice by the Steering Council. I remind you that
this is always going to remain controversial. I have one request: please
don't start a vote or poll.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him/his **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
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From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Sun Apr 28 17:05:44 2019
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:05:44 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJKOXOrvr9L=nf9czHFTAF8VAtJNbotJjoXjJLQ0F7anGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFuHu0O-wZ_bV4gYxFQUSLYOF2O-_4erdwc9tpxd0bnXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7+vJKOXOrvr9L=nf9czHFTAF8VAtJNbotJjoXjJLQ0F7anGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACBhJdHRZYsuw7JjHiQ8wpORqqZryTE2GXNifVWxiN_PF7drgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:44 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?
>
>
> It was not a deliberate choice by the Steering Council. I remind you that this is always going to remain controversial. I have one request: please don't start a vote or poll.
>

Do you mean that the decision to switch to GitHub Issues has already
been taken (so vote/polls would be pointless), or is the discussion
still open?

From guido at python.org  Sun Apr 28 18:00:29 2019
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:00:29 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CACBhJdHRZYsuw7JjHiQ8wpORqqZryTE2GXNifVWxiN_PF7drgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFuHu0O-wZ_bV4gYxFQUSLYOF2O-_4erdwc9tpxd0bnXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7+vJKOXOrvr9L=nf9czHFTAF8VAtJNbotJjoXjJLQ0F7anGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHRZYsuw7JjHiQ8wpORqqZryTE2GXNifVWxiN_PF7drgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJLzGjdVdnaDNCXEwyRxVnwN3q7r-fPVK5DCzSX3ZYYCSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:05 PM Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:44 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a
> deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?
> >
> >
> > It was not a deliberate choice by the Steering Council. I remind you
> that this is always going to remain controversial. I have one request:
> please don't start a vote or poll.
>
> Do you mean that the decision to switch to GitHub Issues has already
> been taken (so vote/polls would be pointless), or is the discussion
> still open?
>

The latter. I meant to warn Victor not to start a poll before prematurely
-- we should first attempt to find (rough) consensus.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him/his **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
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From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Mon Apr 29 06:01:12 2019
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:01:12 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJLzGjdVdnaDNCXEwyRxVnwN3q7r-fPVK5DCzSX3ZYYCSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP7+vJKkjy9MKzDnvpEEv-qLrWFjzvShc0G1WLJC6rXY41PW7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF4280JRewaJV25+CwOozAN4nbEcW2r+sYimajzs4jWRSO-5BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHvt9hOJrfq5oXp=zN8Q5PL57NUK-Smq5hh+t21LA0GkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFuHu0O-wZ_bV4gYxFQUSLYOF2O-_4erdwc9tpxd0bnXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7+vJKOXOrvr9L=nf9czHFTAF8VAtJNbotJjoXjJLQ0F7anGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdHRZYsuw7JjHiQ8wpORqqZryTE2GXNifVWxiN_PF7drgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7+vJLzGjdVdnaDNCXEwyRxVnwN3q7r-fPVK5DCzSX3ZYYCSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACBhJdGO8=5L9-NZOgc-d_bjy9+j9Yerbk5FL7bacbvKNXVdHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 11:58 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:05 PM Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:44 PM Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?
>> >
>> >
>> > It was not a deliberate choice by the Steering Council. I remind you that this is always going to remain controversial. I have one request: please don't start a vote or poll.
>>
>> Do you mean that the decision to switch to GitHub Issues has already
>> been taken (so vote/polls would be pointless), or is the discussion
>> still open?
>
>
> The latter. I meant to warn Victor not to start a poll before prematurely -- we should first attempt to find (rough) consensus.
>

Thanks for clarifying.