From brett at python.org  Wed May  1 15:26:28 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 15:26:28 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Vote on changes to PEP 13 to specify voting
 time frames
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4yvn8iPEJFd1kTGk_pzT4QS4mko4iSmUc6EXTc7wOnLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W4yvn8iPEJFd1kTGk_pzT4QS4mko4iSmUc6EXTc7wOnLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7kALkM2+aBpi1R=PG7rcVnjPXhQQQUvHHyfJzwTc1xcA@mail.gmail.com>

The vote has closed and the ayes have it with 85% of the vote. Thanks to
everyone who participated!

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-on-pep-13-change-to-specify-voting-time-frames/1510
>
> Summary: one week to vote for new core devs, two weeks for PEP 13 changes
> (which is how long I set the vote on Discourse to be open for). This change
> is approved by the steering council.
>
> And as a reminder, changes to PEP 13 require a 2/3 approval by voters.
>
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From guido at python.org  Wed May  1 15:56:46 2019
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 15:56:46 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Vote on changes to PEP 13 to specify voting
 time frames
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7kALkM2+aBpi1R=PG7rcVnjPXhQQQUvHHyfJzwTc1xcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP1=2W4yvn8iPEJFd1kTGk_pzT4QS4mko4iSmUc6EXTc7wOnLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W7kALkM2+aBpi1R=PG7rcVnjPXhQQQUvHHyfJzwTc1xcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJLkLq5VmSQc2PmX=3cL2tVWBc+r=jd8=zk2Cq-p6Bst4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 15:26 Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

> The vote has closed and the ayes have it with 85% of the vote. Thanks to
> everyone who participated!
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-on-pep-13-change-to-specify-voting-time-frames/1510
>>
>> Summary: one week to vote for new core devs, two weeks for PEP 13 changes
>> (which is how long I set the vote on Discourse to be open for). This change
>> is approved by the steering council.
>>
>> And as a reminder, changes to PEP 13 require a 2/3 approval by voters.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
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From cheryl.sabella at gmail.com  Mon May  6 13:33:38 2019
From: cheryl.sabella at gmail.com (Cheryl Sabella)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 13:33:38 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Anthony Shaw has been given the bug triage
 permission
Message-ID: <CABcGAgC9hpjv-B5PUgsUJ72ag5Ts4b7tNyK6wvd_qCRDEgk_Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

During the PyCon sprints, I mentored Anthony Shaw (from Real Python) on
triaging bug issues and GitHub pull requests.  I will continue to mentor
him, but to help him have the greatest impact, he has been given the triage
bit.

Congratulations Anthony!


Cheryl Sabella
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From steve.dower at python.org  Mon May  6 13:49:53 2019
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 13:49:53 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Anthony Shaw has been given the bug triage
 permission
In-Reply-To: <CABcGAgC9hpjv-B5PUgsUJ72ag5Ts4b7tNyK6wvd_qCRDEgk_Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABcGAgC9hpjv-B5PUgsUJ72ag5Ts4b7tNyK6wvd_qCRDEgk_Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <adb6ce41-9a79-b273-58dc-50a1a2bfd88c@python.org>

On 06May2019 1333, Cheryl Sabella wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> During the PyCon sprints, I mentored Anthony Shaw (from Real Python) on 
> triaging bug issues and GitHub pull requests.? I will continue to mentor 
> him, but to help him have the greatest impact, he has been given the 
> triage bit.
> 
> Congratulations Anthony!

Congratulations! Great to have you on board!

Cheers,
Steve


From willingc at gmail.com  Mon May  6 15:52:19 2019
From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 15:52:19 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Anthony Shaw has been given the bug triage
 permission
In-Reply-To: <adb6ce41-9a79-b273-58dc-50a1a2bfd88c@python.org>
References: <CABcGAgC9hpjv-B5PUgsUJ72ag5Ts4b7tNyK6wvd_qCRDEgk_Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <adb6ce41-9a79-b273-58dc-50a1a2bfd88c@python.org>
Message-ID: <07fc7d1f-9c8b-d09f-fb48-98920734c952@gmail.com>

Fantastic! Congrats Anthony :D

Steve Dower wrote on 5/6/19 1:49 PM:
> On 06May2019 1333, Cheryl Sabella wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> During the PyCon sprints, I mentored Anthony Shaw (from Real Python) 
>> on triaging bug issues and GitHub pull requests.? I will continue to 
>> mentor him, but to help him have the greatest impact, he has been 
>> given the triage bit.
>>
>> Congratulations Anthony!
>
> Congratulations! Great to have you on board!
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/


From lukasz at langa.pl  Tue May  7 10:58:27 2019
From: lukasz at langa.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz_Langa?=)
Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 10:58:27 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.8.0a4 is now available for
 testing
Message-ID: <27210321-6B27-4629-9643-2A64F62DA85D@langa.pl>

It's time for the LAST alpha of Python 3.8.0. Go get it here:
https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-380a4/ <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-380a4/>

Python 3.8.0a4 is the fourth and final alpha release of Python 3.8,
the next feature release of Python.  During the alpha phase, Python 3.8
remains under heavy development: additional features will be added
and existing features may be modified or deleted.  Please keep in mind
that this is a preview release and its use is not recommended for
production environments.  The first beta release, 3.8.0b1, is planned
for 2019-05-31.

The release has slipped a week because of me being overwhelmed
with PyCon US this year.  There was also a release blocker and
a breaking change to ElementTree.  Anyway, sorry for the wait!
I moved the planned date of beta1 a few days to make up for it.

If you have a feature you're working on and you'd like to see it in
3.8.0, NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT. Please don't wait until May 30th,
get a proper review and land your change as soon as possible.

Q: Can I get my feature in after that date if I ask nicely?
A: Yes, of course. I will release it in Python 3.9.

- ?
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From antoine at python.org  Wed May  8 11:32:13 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 17:32:13 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
Message-ID: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>


Hello,

There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.

How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?

Regards

Antoine.

From larry at hastings.org  Wed May  8 11:36:45 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:36:45 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Farewell, Python 3.4
Message-ID: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>


It's with a note of sadness that I announce the final retirement of 
Python 3.4.? The final release was back in March, but I didn't get 
around to actually closing and deleting the 3.4 branch until this morning.

Python 3.4 introduced many features we all enjoy in modern Python--the 
asyncio, ensurepip, and enum packages, just to name three.? It's a 
release I hope we all remember fondly.

My eternal thanks to all the members of the release team that worked on 
Python 3.4:

    Georg Brandl

    Julien Palard

    Martin von L?wis

    Ned Deily

    Steve Dower

    Terry Reedy

    and all the engineers of the Python infrastructure team.

Special thanks to Benjamin Peterson and Ned Deily, who frequently 
scurried around behind the scenes cleaning up the messes I cluelessly 
left in my wake.

Having closed 3.4, I am now retired as Python 3.4 Release Manager.? I 
regret to inform all of you that you're still stuck with me as Python 
3.5 Release Manager until sometime next year.


My very best wishes,


//arry/

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From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Wed May  8 11:37:02 2019
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:37:02 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2Waaa=6Mo768JokH7Stn0=H1WWNkgcH08sf=cHD2djd3A@mail.gmail.com>

Are these intermittent failures, or is there bustage on master right now?

My usual habit on other projects (I'm not very active on CPython these
days) is to restart the build on travis so that is a nice green checkmark.

Alex

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
> Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>
> How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
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From antoine at python.org  Wed May  8 11:44:02 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 17:44:02 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <CAFRnB2Waaa=6Mo768JokH7Stn0=H1WWNkgcH08sf=cHD2djd3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAFRnB2Waaa=6Mo768JokH7Stn0=H1WWNkgcH08sf=cHD2djd3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7244393f-b1db-014c-78f3-ba7dbd00637b@python.org>


They're deterministic.  Apparently the test which connects to
"self-signed.pythontest.net" always fails now with a "self-signed
certificate" error...

Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:37, Alex Gaynor a ?crit?:
> Are these intermittent failures, or is there bustage on master right now?
> 
> My usual habit on other projects (I'm not very active on CPython these
> days) is to restart the build on travis so that is a nice green checkmark.
> 
> Alex
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello,
> 
>     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
>     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
> 
>     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
> 
>     Regards
> 
>     Antoine.
>     _______________________________________________
>     python-committers mailing list
>     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Wed May  8 11:45:46 2019
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:45:46 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <7244393f-b1db-014c-78f3-ba7dbd00637b@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAFRnB2Waaa=6Mo768JokH7Stn0=H1WWNkgcH08sf=cHD2djd3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7244393f-b1db-014c-78f3-ba7dbd00637b@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2XZYKJjsnZoM5icyrRds-1dsski0B2FSsGcdRdgBBz9JQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if CPython has a specific policy about this -- other projects
I work on generally have a "we need to get master's tests passing again
before anything can merge" policy.

Alex

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:44 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> They're deterministic.  Apparently the test which connects to
> "self-signed.pythontest.net" always fails now with a "self-signed
> certificate" error...
>
> Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:37, Alex Gaynor a ?crit :
> > Are these intermittent failures, or is there bustage on master right now?
> >
> > My usual habit on other projects (I'm not very active on CPython these
> > days) is to restart the build on travis so that is a nice green
> checkmark.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> > <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Hello,
> >
> >     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in
> test_httplib).
> >     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
> >
> >     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
> >
> >     Regards
> >
> >     Antoine.
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     python-committers mailing list
> >     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do
> nothing.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
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From mal at egenix.com  Wed May  8 11:46:05 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 17:46:05 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Farewell, Python 3.4
In-Reply-To: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>
References: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <efb89d1b-47a2-8ca2-49b8-241be2231453@egenix.com>

Thank you for having been 3.4 release manager, Larry !

On 08.05.2019 17:36, Larry Hastings wrote:
> 
> It's with a note of sadness that I announce the final retirement of
> Python 3.4.? The final release was back in March, but I didn't get
> around to actually closing and deleting the 3.4 branch until this morning.
> 
> Python 3.4 introduced many features we all enjoy in modern Python--the
> asyncio, ensurepip, and enum packages, just to name three.? It's a
> release I hope we all remember fondly.
> 
> My eternal thanks to all the members of the release team that worked on
> Python 3.4:
> 
>     Georg Brandl
> 
>     Julien Palard
> 
>     Martin von L?wis
> 
>     Ned Deily
> 
>     Steve Dower
> 
>     Terry Reedy
> 
>     and all the engineers of the Python infrastructure team.
> 
> Special thanks to Benjamin Peterson and Ned Deily, who frequently
> scurried around behind the scenes cleaning up the messes I cluelessly
> left in my wake.
> 
> Having closed 3.4, I am now retired as Python 3.4 Release Manager.? I
> regret to inform all of you that you're still stuck with me as Python
> 3.5 Release Manager until sometime next year.
> 
> 
> My very best wishes,
> 
> 
> //arry/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/mal%40egenix.com
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, May 08 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From mariatta at python.org  Wed May  8 11:49:47 2019
From: mariatta at python.org (Mariatta)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 08:49:47 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>

If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)

I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the test
should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked as
"allowed failure" or something like that?


On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
> Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>
> How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From eric at trueblade.com  Wed May  8 11:51:13 2019
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric V. Smith)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:51:13 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <495F990B-14E6-49FC-9C6A-1B72CD3F8684@trueblade.com>

Surely there must be some way around it. After all, how would you merge a PR to fix this test?

--
Eric V. Smith
True Blade Systems, Inc
(301) 859-4544

> On May 8, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:
> 
> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
> 
> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked as "allowed failure" or something like that?
> 
> 
>> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
>> Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>> 
>> How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Antoine.
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
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From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Wed May  8 11:52:00 2019
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:52:00 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <495F990B-14E6-49FC-9C6A-1B72CD3F8684@trueblade.com>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <495F990B-14E6-49FC-9C6A-1B72CD3F8684@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2WoRPKOXC4iNryQY5Qeogu0KbcvQmCj=2tvAfkGPotpnA@mail.gmail.com>

Tests for that PR would presumably be green :-)

Alex

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:51 AM Eric V. Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:

> Surely there must be some way around it. After all, how would you merge a
> PR to fix this test?
>
> --
> Eric V. Smith
> True Blade Systems, Inc
> (301) 859-4544
>
> On May 8, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:
>
> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
> GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
>
> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the test
> should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked as
> "allowed failure" or something like that?
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
>> Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>>
>> How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Antoine.
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
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From eric at trueblade.com  Wed May  8 11:54:06 2019
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric V. Smith)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:54:06 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <CAFRnB2WoRPKOXC4iNryQY5Qeogu0KbcvQmCj=2tvAfkGPotpnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <495F990B-14E6-49FC-9C6A-1B72CD3F8684@trueblade.com>
 <CAFRnB2WoRPKOXC4iNryQY5Qeogu0KbcvQmCj=2tvAfkGPotpnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12B09861-7FC2-4412-81E8-73BC7191F25A@trueblade.com>

D?oh! Good point!

Eric

> On May 8, 2019, at 11:52 AM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Tests for that PR would presumably be green :-)
> 
> Alex
> 
>> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:51 AM Eric V. Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>> Surely there must be some way around it. After all, how would you merge a PR to fix this test?
>> 
>> --
>> Eric V. Smith
>> True Blade Systems, Inc
>> (301) 859-4544
>> 
>>> On May 8, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
>>> 
>>> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked as "allowed failure" or something like that?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
>>>> Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>>>> 
>>>> How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Antoine.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> python-committers mailing list
>>>> python-committers at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> python-committers mailing list
>>> python-committers at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 
> 
> -- 
> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
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From antoine at python.org  Wed May  8 11:58:37 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 17:58:37 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>


Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed
but it wasn't updated in our source tree, hence the failure.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:49, Mariatta a ?crit?:
> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
> GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
> 
> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the
> test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked
> as "allowed failure" or something like that?
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello,
> 
>     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
>     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
> 
>     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
> 
>     Regards
> 
>     Antoine.
>     _______________________________________________
>     python-committers mailing list
>     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Wed May  8 12:00:22 2019
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 12:00:22 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2W-bvXDx530NrNqMnUs08x_8pQaXbwkrDx9tLMy2i2Xiw@mail.gmail.com>

https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192

Thanks gps!

Alex

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:58 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed
> but it wasn't updated in our source tree, hence the failure.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:49, Mariatta a ?crit :
> > If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
> > GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
> >
> > I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the
> > test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked
> > as "allowed failure" or something like that?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> > <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Hello,
> >
> >     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in
> test_httplib).
> >     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
> >
> >     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
> >
> >     Regards
> >
> >     Antoine.
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     python-committers mailing list
> >     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
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From antoine at python.org  Wed May  8 12:00:51 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 18:00:51 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
Message-ID: <446fdea8-bc33-c698-e840-7f6831b60378@python.org>


Ah, there's already a PR at
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192, thanks to Gregory.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:58, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit?:
> 
> Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed
> but it wasn't updated in our source tree, hence the failure.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Antoine.
> 
> 
> Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:49, Mariatta a ?crit?:
>> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
>> GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
>>
>> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the
>> test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked
>> as "allowed failure" or something like that?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
>> <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
>>     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>>
>>     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>>
>>     Regards
>>
>>     Antoine.
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     python-committers mailing list
>>     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
>>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From greg at krypto.org  Wed May  8 12:04:54 2019
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:04:54 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNKOyBVJYj3mpBK6eFpWDqeAeS03vnVwEwwMi55gTFnncw@mail.gmail.com>

Our pythontestdotnet repo is different than the cpython repo and the
certificate gets pushed to the server after being committed by hand so it's
a synchronization problem,.

https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 should clear it up.  It's
awaiting the slow CI queuing gods.  It is marked automerge, so if a core
dev could go do a github review and Approve it, it'll go in immediately
after Travis and AppVeyor come back green.

-gps

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:58 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed
> but it wasn't updated in our source tree, hence the failure.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:49, Mariatta a ?crit :
> > If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
> > GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
> >
> > I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the
> > test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked
> > as "allowed failure" or something like that?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> > <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Hello,
> >
> >     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in
> test_httplib).
> >     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
> >
> >     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
> >
> >     Regards
> >
> >     Antoine.
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     python-committers mailing list
> >     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From greg at krypto.org  Wed May  8 12:15:05 2019
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:15:05 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <446fdea8-bc33-c698-e840-7f6831b60378@python.org>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
 <446fdea8-bc33-c698-e840-7f6831b60378@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNJoD9USPnQMucLo8pQApVBQQ9jVZfDSEP5Rdsds_3UMbg@mail.gmail.com>

If this cert change is impacting CI checks for everyone's PRs, I suspect
all PRs will need to merge this change into their branch before they can
pass CI.

Having CI depend on external network resources does not seem like a good
idea.

-gps

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:04 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Ah, there's already a PR at
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192, thanks to Gregory.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:58, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit :
> >
> > Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed
> > but it wasn't updated in our source tree, hence the failure.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Antoine.
> >
> >
> > Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:49, Mariatta a ?crit :
> >> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
> >> GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
> >>
> >> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the
> >> test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked
> >> as "allowed failure" or something like that?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
> >> <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>     Hello,
> >>
> >>     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in
> test_httplib).
> >>     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
> >>
> >>     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
> >>
> >>     Regards
> >>
> >>     Antoine.
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     python-committers mailing list
> >>     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >>     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From greg at krypto.org  Wed May  8 12:44:00 2019
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 11:44:00 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>

Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
(after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
Same thing today apparently on
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming
the usual backport latency is no more than a minute or two.

-gps
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From mariatta at python.org  Wed May  8 13:02:37 2019
From: mariatta at python.org (Mariatta)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 10:02:37 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?
In-Reply-To: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>

There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen it,
so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  ?
I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a comment
in the PR when there is such error.

log:

at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com
request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15"
dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168
protocol=https
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py",
line 600, in send_packed_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._sock.sendall(item)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110]
Connection timed out
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above
exception, another exception occurred:
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py",
line 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     yield
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py",
line 744, in send_task
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self.backend.on_task_call(P, task_id)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py",
line 265, in on_task_call
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py",
line 126, in consume_from
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._consume_from(task_id)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py",
line 132, in _consume_from
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py",
line 3096, in subscribe
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     ret_val =
self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py",
line 3009, in execute_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self._execute(connection, connection.send_command, *args)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py",
line 3013, in _execute
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     return command(*args)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py",
line 620, in send_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py",
line 613, in send_packed_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     (errno, errmsg))
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: Error 110 while writing to socket.
Connection timed out.



?

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:

> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
> Same thing today apparently on
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual backport
> latency is no more than a minute or two.
>
> -gps
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Wed May  8 13:04:01 2019
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 13:04:01 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?
In-Reply-To: <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2X-m7T2_Dy2ZaaByvb0TKekOD+ZKLjYUJkQ==YvfKpaJg@mail.gmail.com>

Would it make sense to work with the PSF infra staff so that
miss-isslington is hooked up to the PSF Sentry account so folks can get
email notifications and similar on unhandled exceptions?

Alex

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:02 PM Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:

> There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen
> it, so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  ?
> I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a
> comment in the PR when there is such error.
>
> log:
>
> at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15" dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168 protocol=https
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 600, in send_packed_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._sock.sendall(item)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py", line 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     yield
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py", line 744, in send_task
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.backend.on_task_call(P, task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 265, in on_task_call
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 126, in consume_from
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._consume_from(task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 132, in _consume_from
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3096, in subscribe
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     ret_val = self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3009, in execute_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._execute(connection, connection.send_command, *args)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3013, in _execute
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     return command(*args)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 620, in send_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 613, in send_packed_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     (errno, errmsg))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: Error 110 while writing to socket. Connection timed out.
>
>
>
> ?
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:
>
>> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
>> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
>> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
>> Same thing today apparently on
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual backport
>> latency is no more than a minute or two.
>>
>> -gps
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
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From greg at krypto.org  Wed May  8 13:06:53 2019
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 12:06:53 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?
In-Reply-To: <CAGE7PNJoD9USPnQMucLo8pQApVBQQ9jVZfDSEP5Rdsds_3UMbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97679bdc-a199-bc1e-2951-7c30fba47803@python.org>
 <CAGbohnaYQof_RmAMAM3O9uUfxaWxQVeKS3==BKwot_ZcRcCfbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9283dcda-b847-2eda-a79a-c6ffa02d03d9@python.org>
 <446fdea8-bc33-c698-e840-7f6831b60378@python.org>
 <CAGE7PNJoD9USPnQMucLo8pQApVBQQ9jVZfDSEP5Rdsds_3UMbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNL7GQK4GHZUyFWP5JmX9rGUOjqgA65i1G5=M5bTkmoa-w@mail.gmail.com>

fwiw a future way to avoid this mess is in
https://bugs.python.org/issue36855: have the tests support multiple
certificates so we can stage the new ones into our repo before updating the
server.

-gps

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:15 AM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:

> If this cert change is impacting CI checks for everyone's PRs, I suspect
> all PRs will need to merge this change into their branch before they can
> pass CI.
>
> Having CI depend on external network resources does not seem like a good
> idea.
>
> -gps
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:04 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ah, there's already a PR at
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192, thanks to Gregory.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Antoine.
>>
>>
>> Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:58, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit :
>> >
>> > Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed
>> > but it wasn't updated in our source tree, hence the failure.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Antoine.
>> >
>> >
>> > Le 08/05/2019 ? 17:49, Mariatta a ?crit :
>> >> If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
>> >> GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)
>> >>
>> >> I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the
>> >> test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be
>> marked
>> >> as "allowed failure" or something like that?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org
>> >> <mailto:antoine at python.org>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     Hello,
>> >>
>> >>     There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in
>> test_httplib).
>> >>     Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>> >>
>> >>     How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from
>> Github?
>> >>
>> >>     Regards
>> >>
>> >>     Antoine.
>> >>     _______________________________________________
>> >>     python-committers mailing list
>> >>     python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
>> >>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> >>     Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > python-committers mailing list
>> > python-committers at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
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From mariatta at python.org  Wed May  8 13:09:38 2019
From: mariatta at python.org (Mariatta)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 10:09:38 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?
In-Reply-To: <CAFRnB2X-m7T2_Dy2ZaaByvb0TKekOD+ZKLjYUJkQ==YvfKpaJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFRnB2X-m7T2_Dy2ZaaByvb0TKekOD+ZKLjYUJkQ==YvfKpaJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbohnY6DSqocYvdiesa0wAqj2JtJr8YObC_JGBpXjrc1rwcGg@mail.gmail.com>

We don't have sentry (I will ask Ernest about it), but such errors are
already sent to Zulip (
https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/142203-workflow.2Fbot-api.20rate.20limit/topic/alerts/near/165174773)
and core-workflow
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/257#issuecomment-490541831
But posting back to the PR itself will still be useful.
?

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:04 AM Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Would it make sense to work with the PSF infra staff so that
> miss-isslington is hooked up to the PSF Sentry account so folks can get
> email notifications and similar on unhandled exceptions?
>
> Alex
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:02 PM Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:
>
>> There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen
>> it, so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  ?
>> I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a
>> comment in the PR when there is such error.
>>
>> log:
>>
>> at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15" dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168 protocol=https
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 600, in send_packed_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._sock.sendall(item)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py", line 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     yield
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py", line 744, in send_task
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.backend.on_task_call(P, task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 265, in on_task_call
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 126, in consume_from
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._consume_from(task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 132, in _consume_from
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3096, in subscribe
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     ret_val = self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3009, in execute_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._execute(connection, connection.send_command, *args)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3013, in _execute
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     return command(*args)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 620, in send_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 613, in send_packed_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     (errno, errmsg))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: Error 110 while writing to socket. Connection timed out.
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
>>> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
>>> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
>>> Same thing today apparently on
>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual
>>> backport latency is no more than a minute or two.
>>>
>>> -gps
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> python-committers mailing list
>>> python-committers at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
>
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From brett at python.org  Wed May  8 13:10:05 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 13:10:05 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?
In-Reply-To: <CAFRnB2X-m7T2_Dy2ZaaByvb0TKekOD+ZKLjYUJkQ==YvfKpaJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFRnB2X-m7T2_Dy2ZaaByvb0TKekOD+ZKLjYUJkQ==YvfKpaJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7FPq6MmbFbGbHp8OG+6j256_a_Z4sMdY0ToLhfLgHH-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:04 PM Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Would it make sense to work with the PSF infra staff so that
> miss-isslington is hooked up to the PSF Sentry account so folks can get
> email notifications and similar on unhandled exceptions?
>

Yes it would. :)

-Brett


>
> Alex
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:02 PM Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:
>
>> There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen
>> it, so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  ?
>> I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a
>> comment in the PR when there is such error.
>>
>> log:
>>
>> at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15" dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168 protocol=https
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 600, in send_packed_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._sock.sendall(item)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py", line 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     yield
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py", line 744, in send_task
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.backend.on_task_call(P, task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 265, in on_task_call
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 126, in consume_from
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._consume_from(task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 132, in _consume_from
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3096, in subscribe
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     ret_val = self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3009, in execute_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._execute(connection, connection.send_command, *args)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3013, in _execute
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     return command(*args)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 620, in send_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 613, in send_packed_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     (errno, errmsg))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: Error 110 while writing to socket. Connection timed out.
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
>>> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
>>> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
>>> Same thing today apparently on
>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual
>>> backport latency is no more than a minute or two.
>>>
>>> -gps
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> python-committers mailing list
>>> python-committers at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed May  8 14:56:40 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 14:56:40 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Farewell, Python 3.4
In-Reply-To: <efb89d1b-47a2-8ca2-49b8-241be2231453@egenix.com>
References: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>
 <efb89d1b-47a2-8ca2-49b8-241be2231453@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <12e725f4-ee6f-1a9a-e02b-c8d527fe29ea@udel.edu>

On 5/8/2019 11:46 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Thank you for having been 3.4 release manager, Larry !

I especially appreciate being able to have proper signatures for builtin 
functions.


From benjamin at python.org  Wed May  8 22:23:17 2019
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Wed, 08 May 2019 22:23:17 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Farewell, Python 3.4
In-Reply-To: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>
References: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <7bca5961-b8cd-42d8-8a00-1384e31de010@www.fastmail.com>

Thank you for your service!

On Wed, May 8, 2019, at 08:37, Larry Hastings wrote:
> 
> 
> It's with a note of sadness that I announce the final retirement of 
> Python 3.4. The final release was back in March, but I didn't get 
> around to actually closing and deleting the 3.4 branch until this 
> morning.
> 
> Python 3.4 introduced many features we all enjoy in modern Python--the 
> asyncio, ensurepip, and enum packages, just to name three. It's a 
> release I hope we all remember fondly.
> 
> My eternal thanks to all the members of the release team that worked on 
> Python 3.4:
> 
> > Georg Brandl
> 
> > Julien Palard
> 
> > Martin von L?wis
> 
> > Ned Deily
> 
> > Steve Dower
> 
> > Terry Reedy
> 
> > and all the engineers of the Python infrastructure team.
> 
> Special thanks to Benjamin Peterson and Ned Deily, who frequently 
> scurried around behind the scenes cleaning up the messes I cluelessly 
> left in my wake.
> 
> Having closed 3.4, I am now retired as Python 3.4 Release Manager. I 
> regret to inform all of you that you're still stuck with me as Python 
> 3.5 Release Manager until sometime next year.
> 
> 
> 
> My very best wishes,
> 
> 
> 
> */arry*
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/benjamin%40python.org
>

From antoine at python.org  Thu May  9 04:11:09 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 10:11:09 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Farewell, Python 3.4
In-Reply-To: <7bca5961-b8cd-42d8-8a00-1384e31de010@www.fastmail.com>
References: <f8034796-9f54-c779-7697-83a86e583a13@hastings.org>
 <7bca5961-b8cd-42d8-8a00-1384e31de010@www.fastmail.com>
Message-ID: <bec018ee-3d5d-aaa5-e34c-19d1409276e5@python.org>


Thank you for being a generally reasonable being.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 09/05/2019 ? 04:23, Benjamin Peterson a ?crit?:
> Thank you for your service!
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2019, at 08:37, Larry Hastings wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's with a note of sadness that I announce the final retirement of 
>> Python 3.4. The final release was back in March, but I didn't get 
>> around to actually closing and deleting the 3.4 branch until this 
>> morning.
>>
>> Python 3.4 introduced many features we all enjoy in modern Python--the 
>> asyncio, ensurepip, and enum packages, just to name three. It's a 
>> release I hope we all remember fondly.
>>
>> My eternal thanks to all the members of the release team that worked on 
>> Python 3.4:
>>
>>> Georg Brandl
>>
>>> Julien Palard
>>
>>> Martin von L?wis
>>
>>> Ned Deily
>>
>>> Steve Dower
>>
>>> Terry Reedy
>>
>>> and all the engineers of the Python infrastructure team.
>>
>> Special thanks to Benjamin Peterson and Ned Deily, who frequently 
>> scurried around behind the scenes cleaning up the messes I cluelessly 
>> left in my wake.
>>
>> Having closed 3.4, I am now retired as Python 3.4 Release Manager. I 
>> regret to inform all of you that you're still stuck with me as Python 
>> 3.5 Release Manager until sometime next year.
>>
>>
>>
>> My very best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> */arry*
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-Dev mailing list
>> Python-Dev at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/benjamin%40python.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From mariatta at python.org  Thu May  9 12:03:51 2019
From: mariatta at python.org (Mariatta)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 09:03:51 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?
In-Reply-To: <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGE7PNK8T=BCZa7iEDx+eDrEh8w+_4hgD6U96RqjRkP7BaAcsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGbohnZRxXqdLU1Cn7RrTNym1Z5-K1xt+XKPDcC-auzDR2J2_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbohnY0cuqfr3TXme2o13H_z-O6GqseBrLToEpaM9anFqtsjg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm seeing more of this today, just heads up in case you see miss-islington
not working.

Seems like this is a known issue with celery + kombu ?
https://github.com/celery/kombu/issues/1019
?

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:02 AM Mariatta <mariatta at python.org> wrote:

> There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen
> it, so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  ?
> I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a
> comment in the PR when there is such error.
>
> log:
>
> at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15" dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168 protocol=https
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 600, in send_packed_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._sock.sendall(item)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py", line 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     yield
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py", line 744, in send_task
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.backend.on_task_call(P, task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 265, in on_task_call
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 126, in consume_from
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._consume_from(task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", line 132, in _consume_from
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3096, in subscribe
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     ret_val = self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3009, in execute_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self._execute(connection, connection.send_command, *args)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3013, in _execute
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     return command(*args)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 620, in send_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 613, in send_packed_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:     (errno, errmsg))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: Error 110 while writing to socket. Connection timed out.
>
>
>
> ?
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:
>
>> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
>> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
>> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
>> Same thing today apparently on
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual backport
>> latency is no more than a minute or two.
>>
>> -gps
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
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From barry at python.org  Thu May  9 13:59:03 2019
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 13:59:03 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as core
 developers
Message-ID: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>

If you like the way mail.python.org and Mailman (both 2 and 3) Just Work, and are about as reliable as any service can be, we have our wonderful postmasters to thank.  Mark has been a postmaster for years and is currently maintaining GNU Mailman, both as a project and as a service on mpo.  Abhilash maintains the GNU Mailman 3 branch, has been project leader since I retired in that role back in 2017, and also maintains the Mailman 3 instance on mail.python.org.

More than that, because of their roles as Mailman developers, they have a deep knowledge of email in general, and in the email package in particular.  As I rarely dabble in the email package these days, and RDM --who did a fantastic job of implementing the new APIs and features in email for Python 3? has also scaled back his involvement, it means that the email package doesn?t get much attention these days.  Both Mark and Abhilash have an interest in helping to maintain the email package moving forward, and both are eminently qualified to do so.

I have worked with both of them for many many years, and I have the utmost respect for their technical and social skills, their understanding of Python processes, and their love of the Python language and community.  I've sprinted with them at many Pycons, until I scaled back my involvement with Mailman.  Both are here sprinting at Pycon 2019.

Therefore, with their permission, I propose extending core developer rights to both Mark and Abhilash.

As per PEP 13, I plan on opening a vote on Discourse next week (once I kind of recover from Pycon) for each developer.

Cheers,
-Barry


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From andrew.svetlov at gmail.com  Thu May  9 15:14:06 2019
From: andrew.svetlov at gmail.com (Andrew Svetlov)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:14:06 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>

A link to a list of CPython commits (Pull Requests) for both these
guys would be greatly appreciated.

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 1:59 PM Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>
> If you like the way mail.python.org and Mailman (both 2 and 3) Just Work, and are about as reliable as any service can be, we have our wonderful postmasters to thank.  Mark has been a postmaster for years and is currently maintaining GNU Mailman, both as a project and as a service on mpo.  Abhilash maintains the GNU Mailman 3 branch, has been project leader since I retired in that role back in 2017, and also maintains the Mailman 3 instance on mail.python.org.
>
> More than that, because of their roles as Mailman developers, they have a deep knowledge of email in general, and in the email package in particular.  As I rarely dabble in the email package these days, and RDM --who did a fantastic job of implementing the new APIs and features in email for Python 3? has also scaled back his involvement, it means that the email package doesn?t get much attention these days.  Both Mark and Abhilash have an interest in helping to maintain the email package moving forward, and both are eminently qualified to do so.
>
> I have worked with both of them for many many years, and I have the utmost respect for their technical and social skills, their understanding of Python processes, and their love of the Python language and community.  I've sprinted with them at many Pycons, until I scaled back my involvement with Mailman.  Both are here sprinting at Pycon 2019.
>
> Therefore, with their permission, I propose extending core developer rights to both Mark and Abhilash.
>
> As per PEP 13, I plan on opening a vote on Discourse next week (once I kind of recover from Pycon) for each developer.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/



-- 
Thanks,
Andrew Svetlov

From antoine at python.org  Fri May 10 11:07:52 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 17:07:52 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b1a27533-f59d-a64d-6b8f-3ab39d3d59e3@python.org>


I'd like to second Andrew's request.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 09/05/2019 ? 21:14, Andrew Svetlov a ?crit?:
> A link to a list of CPython commits (Pull Requests) for both these
> guys would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 1:59 PM Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> If you like the way mail.python.org and Mailman (both 2 and 3) Just Work, and are about as reliable as any service can be, we have our wonderful postmasters to thank.  Mark has been a postmaster for years and is currently maintaining GNU Mailman, both as a project and as a service on mpo.  Abhilash maintains the GNU Mailman 3 branch, has been project leader since I retired in that role back in 2017, and also maintains the Mailman 3 instance on mail.python.org.
>>
>> More than that, because of their roles as Mailman developers, they have a deep knowledge of email in general, and in the email package in particular.  As I rarely dabble in the email package these days, and RDM --who did a fantastic job of implementing the new APIs and features in email for Python 3? has also scaled back his involvement, it means that the email package doesn?t get much attention these days.  Both Mark and Abhilash have an interest in helping to maintain the email package moving forward, and both are eminently qualified to do so.
>>
>> I have worked with both of them for many many years, and I have the utmost respect for their technical and social skills, their understanding of Python processes, and their love of the Python language and community.  I've sprinted with them at many Pycons, until I scaled back my involvement with Mailman.  Both are here sprinting at Pycon 2019.
>>
>> Therefore, with their permission, I propose extending core developer rights to both Mark and Abhilash.
>>
>> As per PEP 13, I plan on opening a vote on Discourse next week (once I kind of recover from Pycon) for each developer.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Barry
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 
> 
> 

From vstinner at redhat.com  Mon May 13 04:14:07 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 10:14:07 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

To be honest, my first reaction is the same than Andrew and Antoine: I
don't know these 2 contributors. I didn't see them around the bug
tracker, reviews, nor in commits.

The definition of what is a core developer is still a work-in-progress
:-) The PEP 13 tries to define it:

   https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team

I'm no longer sure myself that I can define them. I prefer to repeat
what others say :-) Basically, a core developers is someone who
produces commits :-) That's one definition. Another one is someone who
a very good background to produce very good reviews and mentor
contributors. In which case can we put Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj?


Le jeu. 9 mai 2019 ? 21:14, Andrew Svetlov <andrew.svetlov at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> > If you like the way mail.python.org and Mailman (both 2 and 3) Just Work, and are about as reliable as any service can be, we have our wonderful postmasters to thank.  Mark has been a postmaster for years and is currently maintaining GNU Mailman, both as a project and as a service on mpo.  Abhilash maintains the GNU Mailman 3 branch, has been project leader since I retired in that role back in 2017, and also maintains the Mailman 3 instance on mail.python.org.

Having a sustainable Mailman project is great. But how does that
relate to Python itself? Are you talking about the email module? Do
Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj plan to maintain the email module?

I found "Mark Sapiro" mentioned in 4 commits (3 in 2013, 1 in 2006).

Abhilash Raj authored 1 commit in 2015 and 1 in 2014: both in the email module.

Sorry, I didn't dig into the bug tracker / GitHub to check if they are
active there.


> > More than that, because of their roles as Mailman developers, they have a deep knowledge of email in general, and in the email package in particular.  As I rarely dabble in the email package these days, and RDM --who did a fantastic job of implementing the new APIs and features in email for Python 3? has also scaled back his involvement, it means that the email package doesn?t get much attention these days.  Both Mark and Abhilash have an interest in helping to maintain the email package moving forward, and both are eminently qualified to do so.

I would prefer to first see them more involved upstream, before
starting to discuss promoting them. They are other contributors who
are way more active than them.

In the meanwhile, they don't have to be core devs to help to maintain
the email module, no?

I'm not sure about giving the core dev status as a recognizition for
their work on a different project. It sounds unfair to contributors
who are working on Python but are not core dev. There are other ways
to recognize valuable persons in the Python community, like the PSF
Community Awards and PSF Fellows.

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From antoine at python.org  Mon May 13 05:38:33 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 11:38:33 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <904bc5c7-851f-37a8-1048-c1c7775ed3c0@python.org>


Le 13/05/2019 ? 10:14, Victor Stinner a ?crit?:
> 
> I would prefer to first see them more involved upstream, before
> starting to discuss promoting them. They are other contributors who
> are way more active than them.
> 
> In the meanwhile, they don't have to be core devs to help to maintain
> the email module, no?
> 
> I'm not sure about giving the core dev status as a recognizition for
> their work on a different project. It sounds unfair to contributors
> who are working on Python but are not core dev. There are other ways
> to recognize valuable persons in the Python community, like the PSF
> Community Awards and PSF Fellows.

I'll also point out that giving core dev status to people who are active
on different projects but not CPython didn't lead to any significant
results in the past (I'm thinking about e.g. the Twisted core devs).

This is not a criticism about particular people, simply a reflection on
our own practice.  We should recognize that we don't attract active
contributors by giving them status upfront.

Regards

Antoine.

From barry at python.org  Mon May 13 19:11:06 2019
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 16:11:06 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>

On May 13, 2019, at 01:14, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> I'm no longer sure myself that I can define them. I prefer to repeat
> what others say :-) Basically, a core developers is someone who
> produces commits :-) That's one definition.

But, IMHO not a correct one.  The full quote from PEP 13:

??snip snip??
Python core team members demonstrate:

? a good grasp of the philosophy of the Python Project
? a solid track record of being constructive and helpful
? significant contributions to the project's goals, in any form
? willingness to dedicate some time to improving Python

As the project matures, contributions go beyond code. Here's an incomplete list of areas where contributions may be considered for joining the core team, in no particular order:

? Working on community management and outreach
? Providing support on the mailing lists and on IRC
? Triaging tickets
? Writing patches (code, docs, or tests)
? Reviewing patches (code, docs, or tests)
? Participating in design decisions
? Providing expertise in a particular domain (security, i18n, etc.)
? Managing the continuous integration infrastructure
? Managing the servers (website, tracker, documentation, etc.)
? Maintaining related projects (alternative interpreters, core infrastructure like packaging, etc.)
? Creating visual designs

Core team membership acknowledges sustained and valuable efforts that align well with the philosophy and the goals of the Python project.
??snip snip??

I?m quite convinced that both Mark and Abhilash meet these requirements.  And they are almost by definition the experts in the email package.  You can certainly see the nature of their work in the Mailman repos, and I would be willing to mentor them through the first few commits to the CPython repo, though I think it will be mostly perfunctory.

> Having a sustainable Mailman project is great. But how does that
> relate to Python itself? Are you talking about the email module? Do
> Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj plan to maintain the email module?

Yes, that is the intent.

> In the meanwhile, they don't have to be core devs to help to maintain
> the email module, no?

Do we have any core developers who want to maintain it?  Not me :) and apparently not RDM.

-Barry

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From greg at krypto.org  Mon May 13 19:19:50 2019
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 16:19:50 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 4:11 PM Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On May 13, 2019, at 01:14, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm no longer sure myself that I can define them. I prefer to repeat
> > what others say :-) Basically, a core developers is someone who
> > produces commits :-) That's one definition.
>
> But, IMHO not a correct one.  The full quote from PEP 13:
>
> ??snip snip??
> Python core team members demonstrate:
>
> ? a good grasp of the philosophy of the Python Project
> ? a solid track record of being constructive and helpful
> ? significant contributions to the project's goals, in any form
> ? willingness to dedicate some time to improving Python
>
> As the project matures, contributions go beyond code. Here's an incomplete
> list of areas where contributions may be considered for joining the core
> team, in no particular order:
>
> ? Working on community management and outreach
> ? Providing support on the mailing lists and on IRC
> ? Triaging tickets
> ? Writing patches (code, docs, or tests)
> ? Reviewing patches (code, docs, or tests)
> ? Participating in design decisions
> ? Providing expertise in a particular domain (security, i18n, etc.)
> ? Managing the continuous integration infrastructure
> ? Managing the servers (website, tracker, documentation, etc.)
> ? Maintaining related projects (alternative interpreters, core
> infrastructure like packaging, etc.)
> ? Creating visual designs
>
> Core team membership acknowledges sustained and valuable efforts that
> align well with the philosophy and the goals of the Python project.
> ??snip snip??
>
> I?m quite convinced that both Mark and Abhilash meet these requirements.
> And they are almost by definition the experts in the email package.  You
> can certainly see the nature of their work in the Mailman repos, and I
> would be willing to mentor them through the first few commits to the
> CPython repo, though I think it will be mostly perfunctory.
>
> > Having a sustainable Mailman project is great. But how does that
> > relate to Python itself? Are you talking about the email module? Do
> > Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj plan to maintain the email module?
>
> Yes, that is the intent.
>
> > In the meanwhile, they don't have to be core devs to help to maintain
> > the email module, no?
>
> Do we have any core developers who want to maintain it?  Not me :) and
> apparently not RDM.
>

I think these two make sense as email module maintainers from a
demonstrated domain expertise point of view.

But you'll probably have an easier time convincing others who want to see
some PRs first if you just go ahead and have them do some work on the email
module in the form of PRs to start with.  ie: Don't let being dubbed core
developers or not yet block you from starting to mentor them on initial
email module maintenance.

-gps


> -Barry
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon May 13 21:58:06 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 21:58:06 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
Message-ID: <c28071a3-4c90-1088-f384-4604016e5b87@udel.edu>

On 5/13/2019 7:11 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On May 13, 2019, at 01:14, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm no longer sure myself that I can define them. I prefer to repeat
>> what others say :-) Basically, a core developers is someone who
>> produces commits :-) That's one definition.
> 
> But, IMHO not a correct one.

I think 'half complete' rather than 'not correct' is more accurate. 
There are two main effects of being granted 'core developer' status.

1. One may edit and merge PRs by onself or others into a python 
repository and in particular python/cypthon . This, expanded, is 
Victor's 'produce commits'.

2. One may participate in coredev-only discussions and votes.

These are the activities that differentiate of a 'core developer' and it 
is not wrong to say that a core developer is one who may do these.

>  The full quote from PEP 13:
> ??snip snip??
> Python core team members demonstrate:
> 
> ? a good grasp of the philosophy of the Python Project
> ? a solid track record of being constructive and helpful
> ? significant contributions to the project's goals, in any form
> ? willingness to dedicate some time to improving Python

This are qualities and history that once should have to become a core 
developer.  For producing commits, one should, in particular, understand 
the difference, as used here, between 'bug fix' and 'enhancement' and 
support the policy of not adding enhancements to x.y after x.y.0 (after 
.b1, actually).  (The devguide says something about this, but I don't 
know if it is clear enough.)

> As the project matures, contributions go beyond code. Here's an incomplete list of areas where contributions may be considered for joining the core team, in no particular order:

'may', not 'should' or 'must'.  Different existing coredevs may 
legitimately give these different weights.

> ? Working on community management and outreach
...
> ? Creating visual designs

Neither of these two speak to being qualified to produce commits.  Many 
of those I snipped do.

> Core team membership acknowledges sustained and valuable efforts that align well with the philosophy and the goals of the Python project.
> ??snip snip??

This sentence could be misinterpreted as saying that codedev status is 
an award for past contributions rather than an enabling greater future 
contributions.

Summarizing the general considerations, I have two questions for any 
candidate.

1. Do you want to become a core developer and do you intend to use the 
commit privilege?  If not, the question is not worth our time.

2. Do you understand our definition of 'bug fix' versus 'enhancement' 
and how and why the difference is important.  If not,
---

> I?m quite convinced that both Mark and Abhilash meet these requirements.  And they are almost by definition the experts in the email package.  You can certainly see the nature of their work in the Mailman repos, and I would be willing to mentor them through the first few commits to the CPython repo, though I think it will be mostly perfunctory.
> 
>> Having a sustainable Mailman project is great. But how does that
>> relate to Python itself? Are you talking about the email module? Do
>> Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj plan to maintain the email module?
> 
> Yes, that is the intent.
> 
>> In the meanwhile, they don't have to be core devs to help to maintain
>> the email module, no?
> 
> Do we have any core developers who want to maintain it?  Not me :) and apparently not RDM.

I searched the tracker for open issues with the email component marked. 
I was somewhat surprised to see 151, which is about the number for IDLE 
a few years ago.  We definitely need an active core developer working on 
email and team of two who can work together and check each other's work 
would be good.  (If and when we do, I can give suggestions, if asked, on 
managing such an intimidating pile.)

--
Terry


From antoine at python.org  Tue May 14 03:46:30 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 09:46:30 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
 <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>


Le 14/05/2019 ? 01:19, Gregory P. Smith a ?crit?:
> 
> I think these two make sense as email module maintainers from a
> demonstrated domain expertise point of view.
> 
> But you'll probably have an easier time convincing others who want to
> see some PRs first if you just go ahead and have them do some work on
> the email module in the form of PRs to start with.? ie: Don't let being
> dubbed core developers or not yet block you from starting to mentor them
> on initial email module maintenance.

Right, that sounds like the best course of action.  Barry, if you trust
Mark's and Abhilash's competence, it should probably be easy for you to
merge their first PRs (and guide them along the way).

Regards

Antoine.

From mal at egenix.com  Tue May 14 04:00:32 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 10:00:32 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
 <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>
Message-ID: <fdcf7327-7ca7-c4b3-7c54-10ddb0ff5224@egenix.com>

I think Mark and Abhilash would be the perfect choice to (help) maintain
the email package.

They have done a great job on making sure Mailman
works for us and know from real world experience what the issues
are you face nowadays with email (such as having to deal with the
wonderful technology called DMARC...).

On 14.05.2019 09:46, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
> Le 14/05/2019 ? 01:19, Gregory P. Smith a ?crit?:
>>
>> I think these two make sense as email module maintainers from a
>> demonstrated domain expertise point of view.
>>
>> But you'll probably have an easier time convincing others who want to
>> see some PRs first if you just go ahead and have them do some work on
>> the email module in the form of PRs to start with.? ie: Don't let being
>> dubbed core developers or not yet block you from starting to mentor them
>> on initial email module maintenance.
> 
> Right, that sounds like the best course of action.  Barry, if you trust
> Mark's and Abhilash's competence, it should probably be easy for you to
> merge their first PRs (and guide them along the way).

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, May 14 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From andrew.svetlov at gmail.com  Tue May 14 06:19:56 2019
From: andrew.svetlov at gmail.com (Andrew Svetlov)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 13:19:56 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <fdcf7327-7ca7-c4b3-7c54-10ddb0ff5224@egenix.com>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
 <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>
 <fdcf7327-7ca7-c4b3-7c54-10ddb0ff5224@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3CFcUTF2+yK0VUCC78+3f2idHR+13eSY2RJmJPwf79VQbgtA@mail.gmail.com>

Working on email package under Barry mentorship looks like a good idea
and a first step to promoting Mark and Abhilash.
Also, we can give them bug triaging privilegy to help with managing
existing 150+ email related bug reports right now, it doesn't hurt.

After some mentorship period, we can consider promoting them to Core Devs again.
Mentorship is always a very important and required part for our
workflow, regardless of tech expertise.
We always are striving to get PR review (except very trivial changes maybe).
Personally, the ability to press the green "merge" button doesn't
change too much in my work (but requires more responsibility, sure).

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 11:00 AM M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>
> I think Mark and Abhilash would be the perfect choice to (help) maintain
> the email package.
>
> They have done a great job on making sure Mailman
> works for us and know from real world experience what the issues
> are you face nowadays with email (such as having to deal with the
> wonderful technology called DMARC...).
>
> On 14.05.2019 09:46, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >
> > Le 14/05/2019 ? 01:19, Gregory P. Smith a ?crit :
> >>
> >> I think these two make sense as email module maintainers from a
> >> demonstrated domain expertise point of view.
> >>
> >> But you'll probably have an easier time convincing others who want to
> >> see some PRs first if you just go ahead and have them do some work on
> >> the email module in the form of PRs to start with.  ie: Don't let being
> >> dubbed core developers or not yet block you from starting to mentor them
> >> on initial email module maintenance.
> >
> > Right, that sounds like the best course of action.  Barry, if you trust
> > Mark's and Abhilash's competence, it should probably be easy for you to
> > merge their first PRs (and guide them along the way).
>
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com
>
> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, May 14 2019)
> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
> >>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
> >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
>
>    eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
>     D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>            Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>                http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
>                       http://www.malemburg.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/



-- 
Thanks,
Andrew Svetlov

From barry at python.org  Tue May 14 12:38:20 2019
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 09:38:20 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
 <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>
Message-ID: <21A02036-F32F-4456-BD8F-C4E940232DCA@python.org>

On May 14, 2019, at 00:46, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

> Barry, if you trust
> Mark's and Abhilash's competence, it should probably be easy for you to
> merge their first PRs (and guide them along the way).

I do, and that works for me.   Can we give them triage rights on bpo now?

-Barry

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From vstinner at redhat.com  Tue May 14 15:56:44 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 21:56:44 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as
 core developers
In-Reply-To: <21A02036-F32F-4456-BD8F-C4E940232DCA@python.org>
References: <D1DAFB0C-95E1-4BC2-9760-CE5DC3C24EE0@python.org>
 <CAL3CFcWvOW9oi-LD8WRRBL-yKyxcePci6KhyM61L9BTk4Z7dAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEAtg-MzUpzYZhqG=VF-oovP2TT3xgmUyTtGa7zSocokg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABC2248-9BC8-4785-BD32-735D837A13B6@python.org>
 <CAGE7PNKXJD-vWsAvgSihSBG3gEW5_7cKkXUeAfo=iR5iYzYm+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe5a0916-2a58-919c-adad-7b7952f97490@python.org>
 <21A02036-F32F-4456-BD8F-C4E940232DCA@python.org>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHZ_e1mWHgPjHjLRvr2wOginpy=NW-cSh7tw47ER9JbjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Barry,

I gave the bug triage permission to:

Mark Sapiro: https://bugs.python.org/user2507
Abhilash Raj: https://bugs.python.org/user18684

I use the links to profile, so you can double check that I picked the
right person :-) For example, Raj has a second account (latest update:
2014, whereas the other one was updated in 2017).
https://bugs.python.org/user19558

I sent an email to Mark and Raj with some explanations how to triage bugs.

Victor


Le mar. 14 mai 2019 ? 18:38, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> a ?crit :
>
> On May 14, 2019, at 00:46, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
> > Barry, if you trust
> > Mark's and Abhilash's competence, it should probably be easy for you to
> > merge their first PRs (and guide them along the way).
>
> I do, and that works for me.   Can we give them triage rights on bpo now?
>
> -Barry
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/



--
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From barry at python.org  Tue May 14 21:11:14 2019
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 18:11:14 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues for CPython) is
 accepted
Message-ID: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>

As the BDFL-Delegate for PEP 581, and with the unanimous backing of the rest of the Steering Council, I hereby Accept this PEP.

We would like to thank Mariatta for championing PEP 581, and to all the contributors to the discussion, both pro and con.  We appreciate your candor and respect for your fellow developers.  The SC believes that this migration is in the best interest of the Python community, and we look forward to the elaboration of the detailed migration plan (PEP 588).

We also extend our heartfelt thanks Berker, Ezio, and everyone who has helped develop and maintain Roundup and bugs.python.org over the years.  bpo has been a critical component for Python development for a very long time, and we all greatly appreciate the time, effort, and devotion you have put into this resource.

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0581/

Onward we go!  The migration will be a large effort, with much planning, development, and testing, and we welcome volunteers who wish to help make it a reality.  I look forward to your contributions on PEP 588 and the actual work of migrating issues to GitHub.

Cheers,
-Barry (BDFL-Delegate, and on behalf of the Python Steering Council)

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From vstinner at redhat.com  Tue May 14 21:42:17 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 03:42:17 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFnoWoGVg8pmB8K=bT9u6MCsQsFjY-yir0YSbo+hR7G2g@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats Mariatta :-)

Victor

Le mer. 15 mai 2019 ? 03:14, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> a ?crit :
>
> As the BDFL-Delegate for PEP 581, and with the unanimous backing of the rest of the Steering Council, I hereby Accept this PEP.
>
> We would like to thank Mariatta for championing PEP 581, and to all the contributors to the discussion, both pro and con.  We appreciate your candor and respect for your fellow developers.  The SC believes that this migration is in the best interest of the Python community, and we look forward to the elaboration of the detailed migration plan (PEP 588).
>
> We also extend our heartfelt thanks Berker, Ezio, and everyone who has helped develop and maintain Roundup and bugs.python.org over the years.  bpo has been a critical component for Python development for a very long time, and we all greatly appreciate the time, effort, and devotion you have put into this resource.
>
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0581/
>
> Onward we go!  The migration will be a large effort, with much planning, development, and testing, and we welcome volunteers who wish to help make it a reality.  I look forward to your contributions on PEP 588 and the actual work of migrating issues to GitHub.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry (BDFL-Delegate, and on behalf of the Python Steering Council)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/vstinner%40redhat.com



-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Wed May 15 05:40:07 2019
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 10:40:07 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
Message-ID: <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 09:51, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 18:11:14 -0700
> Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>
> > As the BDFL-Delegate for PEP 581, and with the unanimous backing of the rest of the Steering Council, I hereby Accept this PEP.
>
> For future reference, is it possible to post the Steering Council's
> reflection and rationale on the PEP?

Also, is there an archive of the discussions anywhere? The PEP says
discussions happened on Zulip, but I don't follow that and I don't
know where I can find an archived copy of the discussions.

It's not as if I'm going to object to the PEP (I'd have participated
in the discussions if I had a strong opinion) but I am curious.

Paul

From vstinner at redhat.com  Wed May 15 10:56:05 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 16:56:05 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul,
Le mer. 15 mai 2019 ? 11:40, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> Also, is there an archive of the discussions anywhere? The PEP says
> discussions happened on Zulip, but I don't follow that and I don't
> know where I can find an archived copy of the discussions.

Well, the PEP has been discussed a lot at many places since May 2018.

The PEP 581 has been (first?) discussed at the Language Summit which
was part of Pycon US 2018 (May 2018).

Discussion on the PR:

https://github.com/python/peps/pull/681/

Multiple threads on Discourse:

https://discuss.python.org/t/move-pep-581-discussion/873
https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-581-using-github-issues/535
https://discuss.python.org/t/what-are-next-steps-for-pep-581/864
https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-process-after-pep-8016/558/4

Thread on python-dev:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2019-March/156626.html

Threads on python-committers:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-May/005428.html
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-June/005506.html
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005657.html

Discussion on Zulip Chat:

https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/130206-pep581

The Steering Council discussed it internally as well:

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/master/updates/2019-04-26_steering-council-update.md

The PEP 581 and 588 have been discussed at the Language Summit which
was part of Pycon US 2019 (2 weeks ago).

Victor
--
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Wed May 15 11:18:15 2019
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 16:18:15 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 15:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
> Le mer. 15 mai 2019 ? 11:40, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> > Also, is there an archive of the discussions anywhere? The PEP says
> > discussions happened on Zulip, but I don't follow that and I don't
> > know where I can find an archived copy of the discussions.
>
> Well, the PEP has been discussed a lot at many places since May 2018.

Thanks for all of these. I appreciate the time you took locating them
for me. But I do have to say that I still can't really follow any
useful "thread of discussion" - it all seems very fragmented, and it's
difficult to see the progress towards consensus. Maybe that's just
because I'm too used to mailing lists :-)

> The PEP 581 has been (first?) discussed at the Language Summit which
> was part of Pycon US 2018 (May 2018).

Was that written up, or is it all just from people's memories by now?

> https://github.com/python/peps/pull/681/

Ah - I don't really follow this sort of PR discussion, as the github
emails don't tend to have sufficient context on what's being said, so
I (mostly) gave up a long time ago. Also, I tend to assume that
discussions on PRs are mostly about details of wording, and
substantive changes will be dealt with in a wider forum. I wonder if I
should be following PRs on the PEPs repository more closely...?

> Multiple threads on Discourse:
>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/move-pep-581-discussion/873
> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-581-using-github-issues/535
> https://discuss.python.org/t/what-are-next-steps-for-pep-581/864
> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-process-after-pep-8016/558/4
>
> Thread on python-dev:
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2019-March/156626.html
>
> Threads on python-committers:
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-May/005428.html
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-June/005506.html
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005657.html

I saw these, but didn't get much of a sense of progress towards
agreement. Again, maybe just because they were lots of fragmented
threads and locations.

> Discussion on Zulip Chat:
>
> https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/130206-pep581

I can't see this without logging in :-(

> The Steering Council discussed it internally as well:
>
> https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/master/updates/2019-04-26_steering-council-update.md

I did see that, I was more wondering what led to that decision
(whether it was a general consensus from the core devs that it was a
good move, or mainly the SC's own view that prevailed).

> The PEP 581 and 588 have been discussed at the Language Summit which
> was part of Pycon US 2019 (2 weeks ago).

Again, has there been any write up of that (yet)?

As I say, I don't object to the decision, I'm more just trying to
better understand the process of being involved under the new regime
of the SC, combined with multiple fragmented forums for discussion. It
feels a lot harder these days to keep track of all the
discussions/decisions going on. But maybe that's a good thing - only
people with a genuine interest get involved, and I can spend less of
my time reading mailing lists! :-)

Paul

From brett at python.org  Wed May 15 11:57:31 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:57:31 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W6L9hKdQsn8GY_1zgib0nOzr4soF3fQVE_c-dXsR2EytQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:18 AM Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 15:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > Le mer. 15 mai 2019 ? 11:40, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> > > Also, is there an archive of the discussions anywhere? The PEP says
> > > discussions happened on Zulip, but I don't follow that and I don't
> > > know where I can find an archived copy of the discussions.
> >
> > Well, the PEP has been discussed a lot at many places since May 2018.
>
> Thanks for all of these. I appreciate the time you took locating them
> for me. But I do have to say that I still can't really follow any
> useful "thread of discussion" - it all seems very fragmented, and it's
> difficult to see the progress towards consensus. Maybe that's just
> because I'm too used to mailing lists :-)
>
> > The PEP 581 has been (first?) discussed at the Language Summit which
> > was part of Pycon US 2018 (May 2018).
>
> Was that written up, or is it all just from people's memories by now?
>

There's at least https://lwn.net/Articles/754779/. Don't remember if other
people wrote up their own summary.

[SNIP]

> The PEP 581 and 588 have been discussed at the Language Summit which
> > was part of Pycon US 2019 (2 weeks ago).
>
> Again, has there been any write up of that (yet)?
>

Not yet, but A. Jesse Jiryu Davis attended so the PSF could blog about it.



>
> As I say, I don't object to the decision, I'm more just trying to
> better understand the process of being involved under the new regime
> of the SC,


I think everyone is. :)

In the case of this PEP the various members of the SC have been keeping up
with the PEP and its discussions over the year that the PEP has been
around, we discussed the pros and cons that people brought up, thought
through what will be required for us to do the migration if the PEP was
accepted, and in the end decided it was worth the effort.


> combined with multiple fragmented forums for discussion.


A PEP is being worked on to try and propose a way to straighten this all
out, but travel, life, etc. has been keeping that one from being finished.
I've added discussing the status of it to our next meeting's agenda.


> It
> feels a lot harder these days to keep track of all the
> discussions/decisions going on. But maybe that's a good thing - only
> people with a genuine interest get involved, and I can spend less of
> my time reading mailing lists! :-)
>

Obviously YMMV, but I actually find it easier. :)

-Brett


>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Wed May 15 13:44:03 2019
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 19:44:03 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACBhJdG0Ocv+QwFLk4AJGt-uWUAazrCfQK2B+UF6sUgZNAXKAA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 5:18 PM Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 15:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > Le mer. 15 mai 2019 ? 11:40, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> > > Also, is there an archive of the discussions anywhere? The PEP says
> > > discussions happened on Zulip, but I don't follow that and I don't
> > > know where I can find an archived copy of the discussions.
> >
> > Well, the PEP has been discussed a lot at many places since May 2018.
>
> Thanks for all of these. I appreciate the time you took locating them
> for me. But I do have to say that I still can't really follow any
> useful "thread of discussion" - it all seems very fragmented, and it's
> difficult to see the progress towards consensus. Maybe that's just
> because I'm too used to mailing lists :-)
>

I share the same concerns:
1) the discussion was fragmented between
zulip/discuss/github/python-dev/python-committers/sprints/pycons and
very difficult to follow, even for interested people (Victor already
posted several links but missed a few others);
2) the progress toward consensus was not clear and the approval came
somewhat unexpectedly (it was mentioned a couple of weeks ago on
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2019-April/006705.html
and AFAICT no further discussion took place in public forums since
then);

In addition:
1) the PEP contains several factual errors.  I pointed this out during
the core-sprints last year and more recently Berker pointed out some
on GitHub: https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1013 ;
2) the "discussions-to" header of the PEP points to the zulip stream.
The stream has not been active for 6 months (it got a few new messages
today, the previous activity was in Dec 2018);
3) most of the discussions linked by Victor happened last year.
Unless I missed some, the only discussions happened this year are the
two on Discuss from February (with 3 messages each from a total of 5
authors), and the python-dev thread from March (with 12 messages from
7 authors).  One of the two Discuss threads was a inquiry about the
process (https://discuss.python.org/t/move-pep-581-discussion/873);
4) Berker is/was writing a competing PEP, in order to address the
problems of PEP 581 more effectively since his comments on GitHub
haven't been addressed;
5) next week a student is supposed to start working for the PSF on
b.p.o and Roundup as part of Google Summer of Code
(http://python-gsoc.org/psf_ideas.html);
6) PEP 8016 says "The council should look for ways to use these powers
as little as possible. Instead of voting, it's better to seek
consensus. Instead of ruling on individual PEPs, it's better to define
a standard process for PEP decision making.";

To summarize, I feel the approval of this PEP is premature and that
consensus was reached in a way that wasn't very transparent, without
considering some of the concerns.
(This might also be a symptom of a wider problem caused by the
fragmentation of the discussions between the old MLs, discuss, zulip,
IRC, GitHub PRs and issues, and IRL meetings, but this is a separate
topic.)

Best Regards,
Ezio Melotti




> > The PEP 581 has been (first?) discussed at the Language Summit which
> > was part of Pycon US 2018 (May 2018).
>
> Was that written up, or is it all just from people's memories by now?
>
> > https://github.com/python/peps/pull/681/
>
> Ah - I don't really follow this sort of PR discussion, as the github
> emails don't tend to have sufficient context on what's being said, so
> I (mostly) gave up a long time ago. Also, I tend to assume that
> discussions on PRs are mostly about details of wording, and
> substantive changes will be dealt with in a wider forum. I wonder if I
> should be following PRs on the PEPs repository more closely...?
>
> > Multiple threads on Discourse:
> >
> > https://discuss.python.org/t/move-pep-581-discussion/873
> > https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-581-using-github-issues/535
> > https://discuss.python.org/t/what-are-next-steps-for-pep-581/864
> > https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-process-after-pep-8016/558/4
> >
> > Thread on python-dev:
> >
> > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2019-March/156626.html
> >
> > Threads on python-committers:
> >
> > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-May/005428.html
> > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-June/005506.html
> > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005657.html
>
> I saw these, but didn't get much of a sense of progress towards
> agreement. Again, maybe just because they were lots of fragmented
> threads and locations.
>
> > Discussion on Zulip Chat:
> >
> > https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/130206-pep581
>
> I can't see this without logging in :-(
>
> > The Steering Council discussed it internally as well:
> >
> > https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/master/updates/2019-04-26_steering-council-update.md
>
> I did see that, I was more wondering what led to that decision
> (whether it was a general consensus from the core devs that it was a
> good move, or mainly the SC's own view that prevailed).
>
> > The PEP 581 and 588 have been discussed at the Language Summit which
> > was part of Pycon US 2019 (2 weeks ago).
>
> Again, has there been any write up of that (yet)?
>
> As I say, I don't object to the decision, I'm more just trying to
> better understand the process of being involved under the new regime
> of the SC, combined with multiple fragmented forums for discussion. It
> feels a lot harder these days to keep track of all the
> discussions/decisions going on. But maybe that's a good thing - only
> people with a genuine interest get involved, and I can spend less of
> my time reading mailing lists! :-)
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

From senthil at uthcode.com  Sat May 18 05:12:51 2019
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 10:12:51 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CACBhJdG0Ocv+QwFLk4AJGt-uWUAazrCfQK2B+UF6sUgZNAXKAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdG0Ocv+QwFLk4AJGt-uWUAazrCfQK2B+UF6sUgZNAXKAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOVWOQ+KJ5G+QPQBVdCRRB7WmN33A5dPR0ztxhP6k=Dg=Pbdg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 6:44 PM Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I share the same concerns:

1) the PEP contains several factual errors.  I pointed this out during
> the core-sprints last year and more recently Berker pointed out some
> on GitHub: https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1013 ;
> 4) Berker is/was writing a competing PEP, in order to address the
> problems of PEP 581 more effectively since his comments on GitHub
> haven't been addressed;
>

This concerns me a bit. The PEP/announcement acknowledges the work Ezio and
Berker. However, it does not express if the PEP had addressed their review
comments or had the current maintainers on-board with the proposal. I was
of the assumption that if the current maintainers (/domain experts) were
on-board, then it will be easier for the rest of us to adopt the new
changes.
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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun May 19 07:08:41 2019
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 13:08:41 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] discussion fragmentation
In-Reply-To: <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8700535d-a72e-dbb4-0afa-98642f1ceae1@behnel.de>

Paul Moore schrieb am 15.05.19 um 17:18:
> I don't really follow this sort of PR discussion, as the github
> emails don't tend to have sufficient context on what's being said

I agree, although there is also an upside to it. PR discussions can be more
easily constrained to reflect the exact reasoning behind the specific
change, whereas more general PEP discussions, especially in mailing list
threads, are more likely to cover broader (sets of) topics and/or get
distracted and jump between topics. So that's an improvement, I think.

Not every PEP change is easy to discuss as a PR, though.


> multiple fragmented forums for discussion. It
> feels a lot harder these days to keep track of all the
> discussions/decisions going on.

+1

Discussions easily get out of the scope of a PEP PR or the original topic,
which makes it impossible to know when something relevant happens to get
discussed in one of a dozen places that can be used to discuss them.

E-mail threads obviously have the same problem, but at least they are still
part of the same mailing list, so subject changes are relatively easy to
detect when ? the subject changes.

Same for conferences, they are great for discussing complex topics and
working together to improve the understanding of a matter, but then someone
has to sit down and write up the outcomes so that the general discussion
can start (or continue) in the public places.

I would prefer a sort of an "open first" principle, where things are
discussed on python-dev (Python) or python-committers (processes), unless
there is a reason not to (such as PRs, SIGs, voting, ?). That gives
everyone a good handle to stop a discussion and say "let's move this to
place X".

More generally, there needs to be a simple scheme or checklist that makes
it easy to detect when a discussion should be moved elsewhere, and
preferably to which place exactly. At least for the 80% case.

Stefan

From berker.peksag at gmail.com  Sun May 19 09:12:52 2019
From: berker.peksag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Berker_Peksa=C4=9F?=)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 16:12:52 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] discussion fragmentation
In-Reply-To: <8700535d-a72e-dbb4-0afa-98642f1ceae1@behnel.de>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <8700535d-a72e-dbb4-0afa-98642f1ceae1@behnel.de>
Message-ID: <CAF4280J=OUFrpY-XPvQ__YWgSoV2J1iv=n0tqNi82z4WAHAHrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 2:41 PM Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
>
> Paul Moore schrieb am 15.05.19 um 17:18:
>
> > multiple fragmented forums for discussion. It
> > feels a lot harder these days to keep track of all the
> > discussions/decisions going on.
>
> +1

True, two years ago I was able to follow everything [1] via an email
and an IRC client. These days I have no idea what's going on with
CPython development.

And the "this is a clash between different generations of developers"
argument doesn't really apply to me as I'm quite happy to use these
new tools outside of CPython development.

--Berker

[1] bug reports, patches, ideas suggested by users, technical and/or
PEP discussions, status of buildbots

From angwerzx at 126.com  Mon May 20 23:34:36 2019
From: angwerzx at 126.com (Xiang Zhang)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 11:34:36 +0800 (GMT+08:00)
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CAPOVWOQ+KJ5G+QPQBVdCRRB7WmN33A5dPR0ztxhP6k=Dg=Pbdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdG0Ocv+QwFLk4AJGt-uWUAazrCfQK2B+UF6sUgZNAXKAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPOVWOQ+KJ5G+QPQBVdCRRB7WmN33A5dPR0ztxhP6k=Dg=Pbdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9372962.5cd6.16ad8748617.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>

Also, Github has just changed its export control. As an international team, does it affect us and PEP581? Maybe better consult the lawyer first?

http://help.github.com/en/articles/github-and-export-controls



| |
Xiang Zhang
|
|
??angwerzx at 126.com
|

??? ?????? ??

On 05/18/2019 17:12, Senthil Kumaran wrote:


On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 6:44 PM Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com> wrote:


I share the same concerns: 1) the PEP contains several factual errors.  I pointed this out during
the core-sprints last year and more recently Berker pointed out some
on GitHub: https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1013 ;
4) Berker is/was writing a competing PEP, in order to address the
problems of PEP 581 more effectively since his comments on GitHub
haven't been addressed;



This concerns me a bit. The PEP/announcement acknowledges the work Ezio and Berker. However, it does not express if the PEP had addressed their review comments or had the current maintainers on-board with the proposal. I was of the assumption that if the current maintainers (/domain experts) were on-board, then it will be easier for the rest of us to adopt the new changes.



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From njs at pobox.com  Tue May 21 00:28:34 2019
From: njs at pobox.com (Nathaniel Smith)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 21:28:34 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <9372962.5cd6.16ad8748617.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdG0Ocv+QwFLk4AJGt-uWUAazrCfQK2B+UF6sUgZNAXKAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPOVWOQ+KJ5G+QPQBVdCRRB7WmN33A5dPR0ztxhP6k=Dg=Pbdg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9372962.5cd6.16ad8748617.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJVwBnWxaNjn+3f5B6Q2aHc-i9T5FGoyXVr_eECqNe3uoNEog@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 9:05 PM Xiang Zhang <angwerzx at 126.com> wrote:
>
> Also, Github has just changed its export control. As an international team, does it affect us and PEP581? Maybe better consult the lawyer first?
>
> http://help.github.com/en/articles/github-and-export-controls

>From a quick non-expert read, that document seems to say that
github.com is subject to the same export control laws as every other
US company, but they don't do much to enforce them. ("Users are
responsible", "Github.com has not been audited", etc.) Can you give
any more details? You said something changed ? what was it? Is there a
reason to think that github is different in this respect from any
other platform we might use, including self-hosting? (For better or
worse, the PSF is also a US corporation subject to US law...)

-n

-- 
Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org

From angwerzx at 126.com  Tue May 21 00:59:19 2019
From: angwerzx at 126.com (Xiang Zhang)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 12:59:19 +0800 (GMT+08:00)
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
 for CPython) is accepted
In-Reply-To: <CAPJVwBnWxaNjn+3f5B6Q2aHc-i9T5FGoyXVr_eECqNe3uoNEog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7407D51F-AC46-4423-AF4A-63940F80D629@python.org>
 <20190515104830.5b307230@fsol>
 <CACac1F9h-uvqUNcjFMh2FCPD4+=mbPb5Eo7=a5aZnhJF0KZFNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGFh3y6YNz9sWnbFcmFBgsXeaoO92_hFsGr_d=Y4Ee34XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACac1F_9cb2ykL4s-5G+GPvkhu+-EFhR_4C1VKY=A0O=o7+jUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACBhJdG0Ocv+QwFLk4AJGt-uWUAazrCfQK2B+UF6sUgZNAXKAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPOVWOQ+KJ5G+QPQBVdCRRB7WmN33A5dPR0ztxhP6k=Dg=Pbdg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9372962.5cd6.16ad8748617.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>
 <CAPJVwBnWxaNjn+3f5B6Q2aHc-i9T5FGoyXVr_eECqNe3uoNEog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26382459.6089.16ad8c21501.Coremail.angwerzx@126.com>

Ahh sorry, not just updated but seems for some time, though not long, seems starting from May. Today due to some reason this news populates my social media. I don't understand what's the affects of this but definitely disappointed
because this brings some risks to Python users. And this seems something not we can change.


| |
Xiang Zhang
|
|
??angwerzx at 126.com
|

??? ?????? ??

On 05/21/2019 12:28, Nathaniel Smith wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 9:05 PM Xiang Zhang <angwerzx at 126.com> wrote:
>
> Also, Github has just changed its export control. As an international team, does it affect us and PEP581? Maybe better consult the lawyer first?
>
> http://help.github.com/en/articles/github-and-export-controls

From a quick non-expert read, that document seems to say that
github.com is subject to the same export control laws as every other
US company, but they don't do much to enforce them. ("Users are
responsible", "Github.com has not been audited", etc.) Can you give
any more details? You said something changed ? what was it? Is there a
reason to think that github is different in this respect from any
other platform we might use, including self-hosting? (For better or
worse, the PSF is also a US corporation subject to US law...)

-n

--
Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
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From antoine at python.org  Tue May 21 14:10:34 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 20:10:34 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
Message-ID: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>


Hello,

How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1

Regards

Antoine.

From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Tue May 21 14:28:37 2019
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 19:28:37 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
Message-ID: <CACac1F-y=9gpxEjDtLTsLjoh=nzrGS2eFd8wRTGB+CLoz0PvFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 19:10, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1

You can close and reopen the PR, but that restarts every build. I
think there should be a way to restart an individual build, but it
requires certain rights. I just checked, and I don't have the right to
do so, and I'm afraid I don't know who gives out those rights (or even
if it's something that we do give out to individual core devs).

Paul

From antoine at python.org  Tue May 21 14:30:53 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 20:30:53 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <CACac1F-y=9gpxEjDtLTsLjoh=nzrGS2eFd8wRTGB+CLoz0PvFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
 <CACac1F-y=9gpxEjDtLTsLjoh=nzrGS2eFd8wRTGB+CLoz0PvFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c3cc6d3-b128-b746-df55-fc166502fe38@python.org>



Le 21/05/2019 ? 20:28, Paul Moore a ?crit?:
> On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 19:10, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
>> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1
> 
> You can close and reopen the PR, but that restarts every build.

I tried to do that... but stupid Miss Islington deleted the branch :-/

From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Tue May 21 14:32:45 2019
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 14:32:45 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2X7VYXJW7gQfGqQ5voiiE6vqQeGZcJqpiS3YcyXZ5Yk3A@mail.gmail.com>

There's a link that does that on _github_. (On mobile, sorry for terseness).

Alex

On Tue, May 21, 2019, 2:10 PM Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
>
> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From steve.dower at python.org  Tue May 21 14:37:11 2019
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 11:37:11 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
Message-ID: <4112c3a7-2771-9f28-53f2-9ef48865ee79@python.org>

Close/reopen is still the easiest way, unfortunately. I've been bugging 
the team to improve this, but other priorities have been higher.

And I see this is a backport, which means as soon as you close it 
miss-islington will delete the branch and there's no way to restart it.

If we integrated Pipelines through the GitHub app then it would have a 
"re-run check" button. I haven't done that yet as I don't have 
permissions to update our GitHub org and haven't forced someone who does 
to sit down and do it with me :)

For those of us who can log in (GitHub auth integration is also delayed, 
so it's manual user management right now) there should be a "Rebuild" 
button in the new UI, but that's missing on your build for some reason. 
I'll ping some people to find out.

Cheers,
STeve

On 21May2019 1110, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1
> 
> Regards
> 
> Antoine.


From mariatta at python.org  Tue May 21 15:34:32 2019
From: mariatta at python.org (Mariatta)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:34:32 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <4112c3a7-2771-9f28-53f2-9ef48865ee79@python.org>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
 <4112c3a7-2771-9f28-53f2-9ef48865ee79@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAGbohnYOyCTvGjDmt7rc97cY3KW-aT_CFhjrTt3zsXBPNKG-Qw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe worth implementing a `retest` command so our bots can retrigger the
tests without closing PR.
Jenkins has this command.
?

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 8:40 PM Steve Dower <steve.dower at python.org> wrote:

> Close/reopen is still the easiest way, unfortunately. I've been bugging
> the team to improve this, but other priorities have been higher.
>
> And I see this is a backport, which means as soon as you close it
> miss-islington will delete the branch and there's no way to restart it.
>
> If we integrated Pipelines through the GitHub app then it would have a
> "re-run check" button. I haven't done that yet as I don't have
> permissions to update our GitHub org and haven't forced someone who does
> to sit down and do it with me :)
>
> For those of us who can log in (GitHub auth integration is also delayed,
> so it's manual user management right now) there should be a "Rebuild"
> button in the new UI, but that's missing on your build for some reason.
> I'll ping some people to find out.
>
> Cheers,
> STeve
>
> On 21May2019 1110, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
> >
> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Antoine.
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
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From cheryl.sabella at gmail.com  Tue May 21 16:04:01 2019
From: cheryl.sabella at gmail.com (Cheryl Sabella)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 16:04:01 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <8c3cc6d3-b128-b746-df55-fc166502fe38@python.org>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
 <CACac1F-y=9gpxEjDtLTsLjoh=nzrGS2eFd8wRTGB+CLoz0PvFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8c3cc6d3-b128-b746-df55-fc166502fe38@python.org>
Message-ID: <CABcGAgB1oS85B_3VH0ORQbc0Bro6=eFztnombc_YAdmJDxVU2Q@mail.gmail.com>

When miss-islington has deleted the branch, I've gone just closed that PR
and then added the 'backport' label to the original PR.  She starts all
over.  :-

>
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From steve.dower at python.org  Tue May 21 16:32:25 2019
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 13:32:25 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Azure build operations
In-Reply-To: <CAGbohnYOyCTvGjDmt7rc97cY3KW-aT_CFhjrTt3zsXBPNKG-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd505a47-28e6-d6ba-4e86-ce0c65a51558@python.org>
 <4112c3a7-2771-9f28-53f2-9ef48865ee79@python.org>
 <CAGbohnYOyCTvGjDmt7rc97cY3KW-aT_CFhjrTt3zsXBPNKG-Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e51f71-576d-d739-0cde-d6cfe42ad838@python.org>

On 21May2019 1234, Mariatta wrote:
> Maybe worth implementing a `retest` command so our bots can retrigger 
> the tests without closing PR.
> Jenkins has this command.

Or at the very least, a command so the bot can close/reopen the PR 
itself without deleting the branch.

I honestly don't think we'll ever truly get to 100% reliability across 
all CI systems, or every check getting to the point where they're fully 
integrated with GitHub and have their own "rerun" button, so I suspect 
we'll be closing and reopening PRs for a while to come.

Cheers,
Steve


From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Thu May 23 16:17:24 2019
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 22:17:24 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] PEP 595: Improving bugs.python.org
Message-ID: <CACBhJdGC61F+oyX9imk5=swSRnFC51Q-VQ6WTrhAGiTQ7ofPrw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Berker and I have been working on a PEP that suggests we keep using
and improving bugs.python.org and Roundup instead of switching to
GitHub Issues as proposed by PEP 581.

The PEP covers:
* What are the advantages of Roundup over GitHub issues;
* What features are missing in Roundup and how can we add them;
* Issues with PEP 581;
* Issues with the migration plan proposed by PEP 588;

The rendered version of PEP 595 is available at
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0595/

For reference, you can consult PEP 581 and 588 at
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0581/ and
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0588/

The full text of the PEP is include below.  We are planning to update
the PEP to include the feedback we receive and to update the status of
features as we implement them (we also have a Google Summer of Code
students working on it).

Best Regards,
Ezio Melotti


================
PEP: 595
Title: Improving bugs.python.org
Author: Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com>, Berker Peksag
<berker.peksag at gmail.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Process
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 12-May-2019


Abstract
========

This PEP proposes a list of improvements to make bugs.python.org
more usable for contributors and core developers.  This PEP also
discusses why remaining on Roundup should be preferred over
switching to GitHub Issues, as proposed by :pep:`581`.


Motivation
==========

On May 14th, 2019 :pep:`581` has been accepted [#]_ without much
public discussion and without a clear consensus [#]_.  The PEP
contains factual errors and doesn't address some of the
issues that the migration to GitHub Issues might present.

Given the scope of the migration, the amount of work required,
and how it will negatively affect the workflow during the
transition phase, this decision should be re-evaluated.


Roundup advantages over GitHub Issues
=====================================

This section discusses reasons why Roundup should be preferred
over GitHub Issues and Roundup features that are not available
on GitHub Issues.

* **Roundup is the status quo.**  Roundup has been an integral
  part of the CPython workflow for years.  It is a stable product
  that has been tested and customized to adapt to our needs as the
  workflow evolved.

  It is possible to gradually improve it and avoid the disruption
  that a switch to a different system would inevitabily bring to
  the workflow.

* **Open-source and Python powered.**  Roundup is an open-source
  project and is written in Python.  By using it and supporting
  it, we also support the Python ecosystem.  Several features
  developed for bpo have also been ported to upstream Roundup
  over the years.

* **Fully customizable.**  Roundup can be (and has been) fully
  customized to fit our needs.

* **Finer-grained access control.**  Roundup allows the creation
  of different roles with different permissions (e.g. create,
  view, edit, etc.) for each individual property, and users can
  have multiple roles.

* **Flexible UI.**  While Roundup UI might look dated, it is
  convenient and flexible.

  For example, on the issue page, each field (e.g. title, type,
  versions, status, linked files and PRs, etc.) have appropriate
  UI elements (input boxes, dropdowns, tables, etc.) that are
  easy to set and also provide a convenient way to get info about
  the issue at a glance.  The number of fields, their values, and
  the UI element they use is also fully customizable.
  GitHub only provides labels.

  The issue list page presents the issues in a compact and easy
  to read table with separate columns for different fields.  For
  comparison, Roundup lists 50 issues in a screen, whereas GitHub
  takes two screens to shows 25 issues.

* **Advanced search.**  Roundup provides an accurate way to search
  and filter by using any combination of issue fields.
  It is also possible to customize the number of results and the
  fields displayed in the table, and the sorting and grouping
  (up to two levels).

  bpo also provides predefined summaries (e.g. "Created by you",
  "Assigned to you", etc.) and allows the creation of custom
  search queries that can be conveniently accessed from the sidebar.

* **Nosy list autocomplete.**  The nosy list has an autocomplete
  feature that suggests maintainers and experts.  The suggestions
  are automatically updated when the experts index [#]_ changes.

* **Dependencies and Superseders.** Roundup allows to specify
  dependencies that must be addressed before the current issues
  can be closed and a superseder issue to easily mark duplicates
  [#]_.  The list of dependencies can also be used to create
  meta-issues that references several other sub-issues [#]_.


Improving Roundup
=================

This section lists some of the issues mentioned by :pep:`581`
and other desired features and discusses how they can be implemented
by improving Roundup and/or our instance.

* **REST API support.**  A REST API will make integration with other
  services and the development of new tools and applications easiers.

  Upstream Roundup now supports a REST API. Updating the tracker will
  make the REST API available.

* **GitHub login support.**  This will allow users to login
  to bugs.python.org (bpo) without having to create a new account.
  It will also solve issues with confirmation emails being marked
  as spam, and provide two-factor authentication.

  A patch to add this functionality is already available and is
  being integrated at the time of writing [#]_.

* **Markdown support and message preview and editing.**  This feature
  will allow the use of Markdown in messages and the ability to
  preview the message before the submission and edit it afterward.

  This can be done, but it will take some work.  Possible solutions
  have been proposed on the roundup-devel mailing list [#]_.

* **"Remove me from nosy list" button.**  Add a button on issue pages
  to remove self from the nosy list.

  This feature will be added during GSoC 2019.

* **Mobile friendly theme.**  Current theme of bugs.python.org looks
  dated and it doesn't work well with mobile browsers.

  A mobile-friendly theme that is more modern but still familiar
  will be added.

* **Add PR link to BPO emails.**  Currently bpo emails don't include
  links to the corresponding PRs.

  A patch [#]_ is available to change the content of the bpo emails
  from::

     components: +Tkinter
     versions: +Python 3.4
     pull_requests: +42

  to::

     components: +Tkinter
     versions: +Python 3.4
     pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/341

* **Python 3 support.**  Using Python 3 will make maintenance easier.

  Upstream Roundup now supports Python 3. Updating the tracker will
  allow us to switch to Python 3.  The instances will need to be
  updated as well.

* **Use upstream Roundup.**  We currently use a fork of Roundup with
  a few modifications, most notably the GitHub integration.  If this
  is ported upstream, we can start using upstream Roundup without
  having to maintain our fork.


PEP 581 issues
==============

This section addresses some errors and inaccuracies found in :pep:`581`.

The "Why GitHub?" section of PEP 581 lists features currently
available on GitHub Issues but not on Roundup.  Some of this features
are currently supported:

* "Ability to reply to issue and pull request conversations via email."

  * Being able to reply by email has been one of the core features of
    Roundup since the beginning.  It is also possible to create new
    issues or close existing ones, set or modify fields, and add
    attachments.

* "Email notifications containing metadata, integrated with Gmail,
  allowing systematic filtering of emails."

  * Emails sent by Roundup contains metadata that can be used for
    filtering.

* "Additional privacy, such as offering the user a choice to hide an
  email address, while still allowing communication with the user
  through @-mentions."

  * Email addresses are hidden by default to users that are not
    registered.  Registered users can see other users' addresses
    because we configured the tracker to show them.  It can easily
    be changed if desired.  Users can still be added to the nosy
    list by using their username even if their address is hidden.

* "Ability to automatically close issues when a PR has been merged."

  * The GitHub integration of Roundup automatically closes issues
    when a commit that contains "fixes issue <id>" is merged.
    (Alternative spellings such as "closes" or "bug" are also supported.)
    See [#]_ for a recent example of this feature.

* "Support for permalinks, allowing easy quoting and copying &
  pasting of source code."

  * Roundup has permalinks for issues, messages, attachments, etc.
    In addition, Roundup allows to easily rewrite broken URLs in
    messages (e.g. if the code hosting changes).

* "Core developers, volunteers, and the PSF don't have to maintain the
  issue infrastructure/site, giving us more time and resources to focus
  on the development of Python."

  * While this is partially true, additional resources are required to
    write and maintain bots.

    In some cases, bots are required to workaround GitHub's lack of
    features rather than expanding. [#]_ was written
    specifically to workaround GitHub's email integration.

    Updating our bots to stay up-to-date with changes in the GitHub API
    has also maintenance cost. [#]_ took two days to be fixed.

    In addition, we will still need to maintain Roundup for bpo (even
    if it becomes read-only) and for the other trackers
    we currently host/maintain (Jython [#]_ and Roundup [#]_).

The "Issues with Roundup / bpo" section of :pep:`581` lists some issues
that have already been fixed:

* "The upstream Roundup code is in Mercurial. Without any CI available,
  it puts heavy burden on the few existing maintainers in terms of
  reviewing, testing, and applying patches."

  * While Roundup uses Mercurial by default, there is a git clone
    available on GitHub [#]_.  Roundup also has CI available [#]_ [#]_.

* "There is no REST API available. There is an open issue in Roundup for
  adding REST API. Last activity was in 2016."

  * The REST API has been integrated and it's now available in Roundup.

* "Users email addresses are exposed. There is no option to mask it."

  * Exposing addresses to registered and logged in users was a decision
    taken when our instance was set up.

    This has now been changed to make the email addresses hidden for
    regular users too (Developers and Coordinators can still see them).
    The "Email address"" column from the user listing page [#]_ has been
    removed too.

* "It sends a number of unnecessary emails and notifications, and it is
  difficult, if not impossible, to configure."

  * This can be configured.

* "Creating an account has been a hassle. There have been reports of people
  having trouble creating accounts or logging in."

  * The main issue is confirmation emails being marked as spam.  Work has
    been done to resolve the issue.

Migration considerations
========================

This section describes issues with the migrations that might not
have been addressed by :pep:`581` and :pep:`588`.

:pep:`588` suggests to add a button to migrate issues to GitHub
only when someone wants to keep working on them.  This approach
has several issues:

* bpo will need to be updated in order to add a button that,
  once pressed, creates a new issue on GitHub, copies over all
  the messages, attachments, and creates/adds label for the
  existing fields.  Permissions will also need to be tweaked
  to make individual issues read-only once they are migrated,
  and to prevent users to create new accounts.

* The issues will be split between two trackers; searching issues
  will take significant more effort.

* The conversion from Roundup to GitHub is lossy, unless all
  the bpo fields are converted into labels or preserved somewhere
  else.

* bpo converts a number of references into links, including
  issue, message, and PR IDs, changeset numbers, legacy SVN
  revision numbers, paths to files in the repo, files in
  tracebacks (detecting the correct branch), links to devguide
  pages and sections [#]_.  This happens when messages are
  requested so it is possible to create the correct link (e.g.
  all the file links used to point to hg.python.org and now
  point to GitHub).

  If the links are hardcoded during the migration, it will be
  difficult (if not impossible) to change them later.  If they
  aren't, they will either be lost, or a tool to generate the
  links and updating them will need to be written.

* GitHub doesn't provide a way to set and preserve issue IDs
  if they are migrated automatically with the use of a button.
  (Some projects managed to preserve the IDs by contaacting
  the GitHub staff and migrating the issues *en masse*.)

* On top of the work and changes required to migrate to GitHub
  issues, we will still need to keep running and maintaining
  Roundup, for both our instance (read-only) and for the Jython
  and Roundup trackers (read-write).


In addition to the issues listed in the "Open issues" section of
:pep:`588`, this issues will need to be addressed:

* GitHub is properietary and there is risk of vendor lock-in.
  Their business model might change and they could shut down
  altogether.

* Switching to GitHub Issues will likely increase the number of
  invalid reports and increase the triaging effort.  This concern
  has been raised in the past in a Zulip topic [#]_.

  There have been already cases where people posted comments on
  PRs that required moderators to mark them as off-topic or
  disruptive, delete them altogether, and even lock the
  conversation [#]_.

* Roundup sends weekly reports to python-dev with a summary that
  includes new issues, recent issues with no replies, recent
  issues waiting for review, most discussed issues, closed issues,
  and deltas for open/closed/total issue counts [#]_.  The report
  provides an easy way to keep track of the tracker activity and
  to make sure that issues that require attention are noticed.

  The data collect by the weekly report is also use to generate
  statistics and graphs that can be used to gain new insights [#]_.

* There are currently two mailing lists where Roundup posts new
  tracker issues and all messages respectively: new-bugs-announce
  [#]_ and python-bugs-list [#]_.  A new system will need to be
  developed to preserve this functionality.  These MLs offer
  additional ways to keep track of the tracker activity.


References
==========

.. [#] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues for CPython) is accepted

   https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2019-May/157399.html

.. [#] [python-committers] [Python-Dev] PEP 581 (Using GitHub issues
   for CPython) is accepted

   https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2019-May/006755.html

.. [#] Experts Index -- Python Devguide

   https://devguide.python.org/experts/

.. [#] An example of superseded issues:
   "re.sub() replaces only several matches"

   https://bugs.python.org/issue12078

.. [#] An example of meta issue using dependencies to track sub-issues:
   "Meta-issue: support of the android platform""

   https://bugs.python.org/issue26865

.. [#] Support logging in with GitHub

   https://github.com/python/bugs.python.org/issues/7

.. [#] Re: [Roundup-devel] PEP 581 and Google Summer of Code

   https://sourceforge.net/p/roundup/mailman/message/36667828/

.. [#] [Tracker-discuss] [issue624] bpo emails contain useless non-github
       pull_request number - users want a link to actual github PR

   https://mail.python.org/pipermail/tracker-discuss/2018-June/004547.html

.. [#] The commit reported in msg342882 closes the issue (see the history below)

   https://bugs.python.org/issue36951#msg342882

.. [#] The cpython-emailer-webhook project

   https://github.com/berkerpeksag/cpython-emailer-webhook

.. [#] A recent incident caused by GitHub

   https://github.com/python/bedevere/pull/163

.. [#] Jython issue tracker

   https://bugs.jython.org/

.. [#] Roundup issue tracker

   https://issues.roundup-tracker.org/

.. [#] GitHub clone of Roundup

   https://github.com/roundup-tracker/roundup

.. [#] Travis-CI for Roundup

   https://travis-ci.org/roundup-tracker/roundup) and codecov

.. [#] Codecov for Roundup

   https://codecov.io/gh/roundup-tracker/roundup/commits

.. [#] User listing -- Python tracker

   https://bugs.python.org/user?@sort=username

.. [#] Generating Special Links in a Comment -- Python Devguide

   https://devguide.python.org/triaging/#generating-special-links-in-a-comment

.. [#] The New-bugs-announce mailing list

   https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/new-bugs-announce

.. [#] The Python-bugs-list mailing list

   https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-bugs-list

.. [#] An example of [Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

   https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2019-May/157483.html

.. [#] Issues stats -- Python tracker

   https://bugs.python.org/issue?@template=stats

.. [#] s/n ratio -- Python -- Zulip

   https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/130206-pep581/topic/s.2Fn.20ratio

.. [#] For example this and other related PRs:

   https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/9099


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.

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From lukasz at langa.pl  Thu May 30 16:28:10 2019
From: lukasz at langa.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz_Langa?=)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 22:28:10 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Python 3.8.0b1 branch cut-off moved to Monday
Message-ID: <E395A433-E8C6-423A-9A14-84E2183DE947@langa.pl>

I received a few pleas to create the 3.8 branch on Monday. Weekends are apparently when unpaid contributors can spend some extra time on their labor of love. Given the current flurry of activity, I see no issue allowing for those extra three days.

Happy hacking, please leave the branch squeaky clean by Sunday EOD AoE.

- ?
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri May 31 14:23:30 2019
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 11:23:30 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Requirements / Guidelines for module
 maintainers? [was: PEP 594]
Message-ID: <ae0c2449-1fe5-0f28-f20f-712fdde0abfd@stoneleaf.us>

Greetings!

I have a non-core dev willing to help maintain the cgi/cgitb modules along with myself.

Would this consist of adding the both of us as experts on those modules, and then I would be responsible for the mechanics of approving/merging any PRs?  Assuming this individual does well we should make them a core-dev at some point, but presently they have no experience contributing to the Python codebase.

--
~Ethan~

From brett at python.org  Fri May 31 16:10:16 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 13:10:16 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Requirements / Guidelines for module
 maintainers? [was: PEP 594]
In-Reply-To: <ae0c2449-1fe5-0f28-f20f-712fdde0abfd@stoneleaf.us>
References: <ae0c2449-1fe5-0f28-f20f-712fdde0abfd@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4HJygo0HLnV2yvBcNjRLRA+bMpGKw86bS=tbvVo8tsbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 11:33 AM Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I have a non-core dev willing to help maintain the cgi/cgitb modules along
> with myself.
>
> Would this consist of adding the both of us as experts on those modules,
> and then I would be responsible for the mechanics of approving/merging any
> PRs?


I don't think there's anything technically preventing folks who are not
core devs from being added there, but I would expect them to at least be
triagers as they will get nosied on appropriate issues.


>   Assuming this individual does well we should make them a core-dev at
> some point, but presently they have no experience contributing to the
> Python codebase.
>

I assume it would be the same as what Barry is doing with two other folks
on the 'email' package: treat it like a mentoring situation and if they
work out you an put them forward to become a core dev.
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