[Python-cuba] Going forwards

Sat Jun 27 09:01:35 CEST 2015

PS: New members contacted me about not being approved to the list, please
look into it, thank you.

J.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Josephine Garcia <aethraiam at gmail.com>
wrote:

> My anger got the best of me and things got out of hand. I hope you
> understand where I’m coming from and why your words were hurtful. As a
> trans woman I'm used to being constantly harassed and excluded from
> software projects on the sole basis of my gender. The Python community has
> made great advancements in how it treats minorities and the marginalized,
> but turns a blind eye when cis white males abuse women.
>
> I don't regret calling Roberto out. I believe that he should think before
> posting egregious messages while identifying himself with a major project
> such as this one. Now, with a clearer mind, I will further pursue this on a
> more organized manner following the feedback received.
>
> I want to thank those who are supporting me and helping me compile the
> list of offenses to present to the PSF board shortly. I want to specially
> thank: Jacky Kazil, Jacky Alciné, Kurtis Rainbolt-Greene, Alexander
> Hitchins, Nexxy, Randi Harper, Gregory Smith, Julian Simioni, Strand
> McCutchen, Greg V and the super spectacular Jacob Kaplan-Moss for
> amplifying this and helping me reach others.
>
> We will continue, and bring forward a cleaner case that will serve as a
> template for future cases.
>
> J.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josephine,
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Josephine Garcia <aethraiam at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello "Roberto" with just two first lines you have managed to erase my
>> identity, sweep my report under the rug, attacked me and threaten me with
>> legal action. If that is not white male privilege, I don't know what is!
>>
>> I have no more idea who Robert is than I do who you are. Neither do I
>> have any evidence for any of the accusations you have leveled at Roberto.
>> This does not mean I believe or disbelieve you, but I am certainly not
>> going to support a campaign of vilification without a real justification.
>> Python is a broad church, and nobody is perfect.
>>
>> Things that start bad end bad, I'm merely trying to make sure this group
>> is successful but all you do is get defensive and aggressive, thus proving
>> the points in my initial report. You could have silently left the group but
>> choose to make an spectacle of things. For such an accomplished person you
>> sure act in a very immature manner.
>>
>> That's your opinion. I don't see Robert "making a spectacle of things"
>> any more than you are. We are still listening, but not to unfounded
>> accusations, hence my call for evidence.
>>
>> You provided link that show how you shield youself using women and
>> "helping" them, you didn't really provided evidence to that proved you
>> don't harass women.
>>
>> Proving a negative, as you must surely be aware, is difficult.
>>
>> Regarding the IGDA, an email was leaked that proved you were the reason
>> for the chapter closure and that two game developers (one of them a women
>> Ashley Alicea https://twitter.com/avashly) were run off the industry.
>> Are you going to erase her identity too?
>>
>> So where is that email? I'm still looking for evidence.
>>
>> The rest of your "reply" is just you crying about your feelings when
>> someone hurts you with words.
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> It is disappointing how all the beta men did a 180 when the alpha male
>> spoke.
>>
>> I specifically reached out to you offering to take these matters up with
>> Roberto. My stance remains the same: these allegations will have to be
>> investigated before any action is taken. It would be improper to exclude
>> anyone from a Python community on the basis of unsupported allegations. If
>> that makes me "a beta man who did a 180," then I guess you are entitled to
>> your opinion.
>>
>> I'm recruiting the help of others to help me fight this.
>>
>> Well I suppose we'll just have to wait until we find out who these others
>> are. Surely you must realize that objectively at present there is no
>> actionable information on which to proceed.
>>
>> regards
>>  Steve
>>
>> -J
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Roberto Rosario <
>> roberto.rosario.gonzalez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everybody,
>>>
>>> I rarely engage messages when the supporting evidence is ambiguous or
>>> just plain false to avoid escalation. But after careful consideration of
>>> this defamation emails against me, and a meeting with my lawyers, I decided
>>> to answer this message sent by "Josephine Garcia" (and I use " " because
>>> this name may be an alias or not and I have no knowledge of who might be
>>> this person).
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that in the initiative to make Python Cuba there are
>>> people who are trying to divide more than unite. I find it interesting that
>>> this person uses unfounded arguments to supposedly justify her accusations
>>> against me. This person also uses group coercion to have me avoid exposing
>>> my points of view on accusations about me: "silently left the group"
>>> "having this person on board will send the wrong message, that we and the
>>> PSF support his actions."
>>>
>>> 1) Allegation of harassment: I was being labeled a harasser by a tool
>>> which equated twitter subscription to harassment. I criticized the logic of
>>> the algorithm. Pretty much everybody agreed with my assertion, even The
>>> Mary Sue, a feminist blog (
>>> http://www.themarysue.com/twitter-users-mad-about-gamergate-block-bots/).
>>> Even after all this, I extended an olive branch and publicly apologized for
>>> my wording (https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/536255070086893568),
>>> the reaction to my apology left much to be desired and shows the extension
>>> of the treatment to which I am subjected daily.
>>>
>>> 1a) In reaction to the shortcomings of IGDA’s tool, I started creating a
>>> FOSS case management tool which could be used too to help document
>>> harassment (http://blog.robertorosario.com/imperfect-tools/) (
>>> https://github.com/Cleisthenes/cleisthenes). It didn't matter that my
>>> original intent was helping social services, the attacks and harassment
>>> I received for being a man proposing such a tools which technologically
>>> undermined the previous one built by a woman forced to abandon the project.
>>>
>>> 2) "entire chapters of initiatives have been dissolved." Since it is not
>>> mentioned which initiatives, I'm going to assume this is about the IGDA
>>> Puerto Rico chapter. I was chairman of the chapter and neither myself nor
>>> any member of the board has even publicized the reasons of the closure in
>>> an official manner. It is very irresponsible to pass personal opinions as
>>> fact.
>>>
>>> 3) Harassment of women: This can’t be more false as I actively promote
>>> the inclusion of women in technology, giving money, making them t-shirts,
>>> giving them my time and promoting them and their events. (
>>> https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/553604723144925184) (
>>> http://ccom.uprrp.edu/actividades/Crypto-flyer.png) (
>>> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/python-django-workshop-tickets-9132677083) (
>>> http://ccom.uprrp.edu/actividades/practical.jpg)
>>> (http://ccom.uprrp.edu/activity_info.php?aid=80) (
>>> http://aldia.microjuris.com/2013/10/07/ciclo-de-conferencias-sobre-criptografia/)
>>> (https://www.patreon.com/siloraptor?pat=1)
>>>
>>> I choose several members of the <include> Girls group for first
>>> government technology internship at the Office Of Management and Budget
>>> working on projects for the Governor of Puerto Rico and they have gone on
>>> to do great things.
>>>
>>> 5) I canceled my participation in DjangoCon EU due to economic and
>>> health issues. Daniele Procida can attest to this. My wife and myself are
>>> personal friends of Daniele (
>>> https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/508491655297515521) (
>>> https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/506913013144625152) (
>>> https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/508092355673485312/photo/1) lying
>>> about his supposed actions as organizer of DjangoCOn EU is an offense to
>>> all.
>>>
>>> 6) Gamergate: The links you provide don't prove any of your assertions.
>>>
>>> 6a) RationalWiki: The archived talk page about the article shows my
>>> representation on the article to be the work of an user by the name Ryulong
>>> (http://archive.is/ACBf5#selection-795.49-803.27) whose edits have been
>>> reverse time and again: "I have also removed a similarly misleading and
>>> unsourced portion, "Rosario blamed feminism". I don't know where you're
>>> getting your info, but this is the third misrepresentation I have removed
>>> from this article.--Naqoyqatsi (talk) 16:13, 14 May 2015 (UTC)" This is the
>>> same Ryulong, a wikipedian banned from Wikipedia, exactly for this (
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ryulong)
>>>
>>> 6b) Chris von Csefalvay’s graph only show I was one of the persons being
>>> retweeted by people related to the gamergate movement.
>>>
>>> 6c) The Newsweek article doesn't say anything or prove anything about me
>>> being a leader or even a member of gamergate.
>>>
>>> 7) In regards to Jefferson, I'm in shock, I do not understand how this
>>> person dares to say he was the victim of harassment on my part. Jefferson
>>> and I worked in various communities together until he moved from Puerto
>>> Rico to pursue graduate studies. Since he left Puerto Rico I have not seen
>>> him, but from what I've heard, he is doing well. I agree Jefferson would be
>>> a good candidate to have onboard, I personally know him. My wife and myself
>>> have helped him in the past to gain exposition to his projects at our
>>> events: (http://www.slideshare.net/siloraptor/final-metapiano) (
>>> http://www.piloto151.com/betabeers-san-juan-launches-in-piloto-151/)
>>> and I'm too featured in his projects (https://vimeo.com/68919925)
>>>
>>> 8) Interestingly, Josephine García did not mention on her email that my
>>> family was harassed, that someone published a photo that was private of me
>>> with my son, a minor, and my wife, that someone published private
>>> information about my family with said picture, that I have been called “cunt”,
>>> “harasser”, “scum”, and so on without proof on a daily basis. The stress
>>> from the witch hunts to which I am subjected and seeing my work tarnished
>>> without proof have cause health problems not the least my last visit to the
>>> emergency room with a cardiac event.
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that when one wants to do things to encourage and
>>> foster the community we allow individuals who manipulate information just
>>> to create division and drama. In the initiative to make Python Cuba we
>>> can’t take seriously, unfounded accusations from people who are trying to
>>> divide more than unite. I hope this email leaves everything clear and we
>>> can continue working in the same direction to make PyCon Cuba a reality.
>>> That being said, I am willing to leave the group if I am not wanted here,
>>> but I will not leave the group because of lies about me. I am willing to
>>> leave the group so that the possibilities of a PyCon in Cuba are not
>>> affected. I await your responses, be public or made in private via my
>>> email. If contacted privately via email, I will not disclose your position
>>> on the matter be it in favor or against my continued presence in this group.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> --Roberto
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 3:18 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> << SNIP >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I wrote this reply, however, simply to assure you that at least some
>>>>> people do regard this as a potentially serious issue. Sorry of you feel
>>>>> your claims were being taken too lightly. (and I have no idea what David
>>>>> Mertz's message had to do with the discussion, but I imagine he will be
>>>>> able to explain).
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>>  Steve
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Steve.  I could be wrong but I don't think any members of this
>>>> WG are board members, I stand to be corrected.
>>>>
>>>> If I were super concerned about a specific member of a Python.org
>>>> listserv, e.g. Diversity, I would probably find someone on the Board to
>>>> complain to but I'm not sure which one.  I did some reading but it didn't
>>>> seem Cuba-related and then the phone rang etc.
>>>>
>>>> Kirby
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Python-cuba mailing list
>>>> Python-cuba at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Python-cuba mailing list
>>> Python-cuba at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-cuba mailing list
>> Python-cuba at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Holden steve at holdenweb.com / +1 571 484 6266 / +44 208 289 6308
>> / @holdenweb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-cuba/attachments/20150627/c9d4a48d/attachment-0001.html>