[Python-Dev] pep-dev

Thomas Wouters thomas@xs4all.net
Mon, 24 Jul 2000 07:36:02 +0200

On Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 09:42:48PM -0500, Paul Prescod wrote:
> "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

> > I'm beginning to think that our role on python-dev is different than
> > we thought.  I think for a particular proposal for a new language
> > feature, or core language functionality, it is our job to explore the
> > details and ramifications as much as possible.  These should be
> > summarized in a PEP, and it must have running code or a working patch.

For the record, this has always been how I saw PEPs, with the slight
distinction that sometimes Guido would come along and offer divine guidance,
and the PEP would reflect Guido's opinion in the end. There is nothing wrong
with it reflecting the community's opinion, though, as long as the champion
is able to grasp all of it. Guido's 'guidance' could just be his judgement
of the final result ;)

Though on some subjects, this might require a fair ammount of
Guido-channeling on the side of the champion, in order not to waste too much
time on things Guido will not allow anyway. Things like user-defined syntax
in the core language.

> Guido wouldn't need to read every message in PEP-dev because the whole
> point is to come up with a PEP that he *could* read. In fact, nobody
> would read every message of PEP-dev (well, maybe Thomas Wouters, he
> seems to have infinite energy).

Not at all ! I have been purposely ignoring most of the numerous messages on
python-list about new operators, user-defined operators and multimethods. I
even have trouble following python-dev sometimes ;) especially in the
longer-posted threads. I seem to have near-endless energy discussing the
finer points of coding style and standards, and actually toying with code,
merely because programming is one of my great passions, and the only one I
can't really relieve at work or with my girlfriend ;)

> Each message could be clearly labelled as relating to this PEP or that one
> and if you aren't interested, you could just ignore that thread.

Excellent idea. We should have realized before that python-list and
python-dev are too much 'involved' fora for proto-ideas: everyone worries
(on both lists) that what someone else proposes is going to be accepted
without counterword, so everyone has something to add or counter. I would
suggest plenty of drafts before a PEP is accepted, though, and give everyone
on python-list and python-dev time to get their own comments added to the

If python.org is still being held hostage, I can create a couple of lists
for this purpose (but Barry already knows that ;)

Thomas Wouters <thomas@xs4all.net>

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