[Python-Dev] Re: Bug fix releases

[Thomas Wouters]

On Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:10:35PM -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> But I understand that you're saying that the community has grown so
> conservative that it can't stand new features even if they *are* fully
> backwards compatible.

There is an added dimension, especially with Python. Bugs in the new
features. If it entails changes in the compiler or VM (like import-as, which
changed the meaning of FROM_IMPORT and added a IMPORT_STAR opcode) or if
modules get augmented to use the new features, these changes can introduce
bugs into existing code that doesn't even use the new features itself.

> I wonder, does that extend to new library modules?  Is there also
> resistance against the growth there?  I don't think so -- if anything,
> people are clamoring for more stuff to become standard (while at the
> same time I feel some pressure to cut dead wood, like the old SGI
> multimedia modules).

No (yes), bugfix releases should fix bugs, not add features (nor remove
them). Modules in the std lib are just features.

> So that relegates us at PythonLabs to a number of things: coding new
> modules (boring), or trying to improve performance of the virtual
> machine (equally boring, and difficult to boot), or fixing bugs (did I
> mention boring? :-).

How can you say this ? Okay, so *fixing* bugs isn't terribly exciting, but
hunting them down is one of the best sports around. Same for optimizations:
rewriting the code might be boring (though if you are a fast typist, it
usually doesn't take long enough to get boring :) but thinking them up is
the fun part. 

But who said PythonLabs had to do all the work ? You guys didn't do all the
work in 2.0->2.1, did you ? Okay, so most of the major features are written
by PythonLabs, and most of the decisions are made there, but there's no real
reason for it. Consider the Linux kernel: Linus Torvalds releases the
kernels in the devel 'tree' and usually the first few kernels in the
'stable' tree, and then Alan Cox takes over the stable tree and continues
it. (Note that this analogy isn't quite correct: the stable tree often
introduces new features, new drivers, etc, but avoids real incompatibilites
and usually doesn't require extra upgrades of tools and such.)

I hope you don't think any less of me if I volunteer *again* :-) but I'm
perfectly willing to maintain the bugfix release(s). I also don't think we
should necessarily stay at a single bugfix release. Whether or not a 'beta'
for the bugfix release is necessary, I'm not sure. I don't think so, at
least not if you release multiple bugfix releases. 

Holiday-Greetings-from-Long-Beach-ly y'rs,
-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas@xs4all.net>

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