[Python-Dev] Tutorial: Brief Introduction to the Standard Libary
mwh at python.net
Wed Dec 3 07:40:05 EST 2003
I don't want to be rude -- is English your first language? -- but I
found this article to be written in particularly baroque prose. I'm
not quite sure what your central point is.
Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.net> writes:
> No mention of the copy module. Is this open for discussion?
Well, I dunno. If it was my decision, there's no way it would be
mentioned in the builtins.
> OTOH, functionally, haven't some built-ins been growing copy methods? Could
> be wrong about that - seem to get that idea somewhere.
No changes here in a long while.
> Is it unreasonable to argue that hiding - isn't that is what is being
> advocated, in essence - something that is arguably conceptually important,
> cannot properly be considered to be a service to beginners?
I don't think it's unreasonable at all. To me the copy module is
something you only need when you really need it, then you go looking
> Is it totally out-of-left field to argue that confronting "copy" forces a
> confrontation with the fundamentals of assignment - perhaps the most subtle
> concept faced in approaching Python.
Certainly, the failure to understand assignment and erroneous beliefs
that the copy module is necessary in a given situation go hand in hand.
Assignment in Python *isn't* particularly subtle, though. My
impression is that it's people from e.g. C who get tripped up here,
not total newbies.
> Particularly difficult because the beginner does not know to expect
> subtleties. I would argue that these subtleties are *always*
> surprising - particularly and importantly because of an important
> missing clue. That clue, specifically, the existence of copy.
> I had always assumed that the absence of copy()/deepcopy() from built-ins
> was for 'big boy' reasons.
Another reason might just be that copy() is implemented in Python...
> And accepted it as that - feeling, in general, that the big boy
> issues should override the 'good for beginners' issue. And only
> take up the cause of copy() to the extent that - on better evidence
> - it appears to be being handled as it is for paternalistic
> reasons. I am closer to being a beginner than most.
Have you ever used the copy module? I am *not* a beginner, and have
used it *once* (and I can't remember what for, either).
y'rs - tim
-- Tim Peters dishes out versioning advice on python-dev
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