[Python-Dev] Re: How to lose potential users/developers

[Michael Hudson]

"Mark McEahern" <marklists@mceahern.com> writes:

> [Graham Guttocks]
>> I don't know what to tell you. I made a mistake with how I phrased
>> my original question, and the situation was made worse by people on
>> this list making many unfounded assumptions. I was never allowed to
>> recover.

I think you were also unlucky wrt the time you posted.  Python-Dev has
been a bit awash with rather blue-skyish discussion recently, and your
post managed to hit the "Ye Gods, not this again" button particularly
hard.

>> I think my post raised some interesting discussion,

Yeah, I noticed that.  I hope you take it as a good sign that even
amongst the angst there was some good stuff.  comp.lang.python is good
at this, too.

[...]
>> Frankly, this whole ordeal has left me feeling nauseous, and I'd really
>> like to see this cycle of hate just die now.

Amen.  I am confident this post will have done that.

> I hope that you find a way to try again.  Python-Dev is a lot more serious
> than comp.lang.python.  Understandably.  It's not surprising that you didn't
> know what the atmosphere was like there before you posted.

It also changed a fair bit recently.

I think it's getting hard to talk about Python's *implementation* in
here.  (This post is part of the problem, of course).

The start of description of python-dev up on m.p.o is:

    On this list the key Python developers discuss the future of the
    language and its implementation.

So, crazy idea for the morning.  Split that sentence up: have one list
(probably the existing python-dev) where the future of the language is
discussed.  Have another (python-implementors) where anything that
does not have a short-to-medium term effect on the code in Python CVS
is strictly forbidden.  Can this be made to work?  Or maybe the last
month or so has been the exception and this list will just naturally
reqcquire some of it's focus.

Cheers,
Michael
(a reformed syntax discusser :-)

-- 
  (Unfortunately, while you get Tom Baker saying "then we 
   were attacked by monsters", he doesn't flash and make 
  "neeeeooww-sploot" noises.)
      -- Gareth Marlow, ucam.chat, from Owen Dunn's review of the year