[Python-Dev] PEP 329: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library

Brett C. bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU
Mon Apr 19 15:39:31 EDT 2004

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> While Samuele's words were inappropriately rude, I'm glad this was
> brought up (and even to some extent I'm glad about some of the words
> that Raymond used).  Raymond *does* seem to have a "speed obsession",
> and while I'm sure he has Python's best interests at heart, I'm not
> sure that accepting everything he proposes will actually be good for
> Python.

While I was thinking about this whole thread I realized that this is 
just a PEP and can easily be rejected by Guido.  This is not like 
Raymond went ahead and added the module along with changing the stdlib 
to use it without proposing it to python-dev first (not going to get 
into that and the whole heapq thing here).  It looks like this thread is 
not going to explode into a heated argument and I for one am glad it 
isn't since I don't think it needs to since this is just a PEP and 
nothing else.  This needs to be viewed as just another PEP and not as 
"Raymond's speed obsession has acted up again!" or something of that ilk.

>>PS: I'm starting to be really annoyed by the fact that Jython is
>>often cited good PR but a 2nd class citizen for all the rest. I'm
>>aware of the practical circumstances of why that's the case in some
>>occassions, OTOH we are mostly all investing our free time on Python
>>activities, it would be nice if we showed respect beyond just the
>>forms and politeness. I'm back from the ACCU which was fun but
>>tiring and also an occasion of some related heat taking. All I was
>>looking forward is restarting to finish the new-style class work
>>(started in December and January) in Jython,after the stop because
>>of working on the negotations for the PyPy EU proposal together with
>>the others PyPy people, which we hope will conclude positively for
>>the people working on it and looking forward to restart making PyPy
>>a real concrete contribution to Python future.
> I hope you don't think *everybody* sees Jython as a 2nd class citizen.
> I personally see it as very important.  Certainly the PSF is
> considering funding it, whether via the general grants committee (just
> formed) or via a special grant.

I know I appreciate Jython as well.  I don't know about everyone else, 
but I know I view CPython as an implementation of the Python language, 
just like Jython is an implementation, and thus on the same playing 
field in that regard.  While CPython might be used as the testbed and 
reference implementation, it is still just an implementation of the 
language which is the most important thing in all of this, not the 
specifics of how we implement it, more or less.


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