[Python-Dev] PEP: Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion

M.-A. Lemburg mal at egenix.com
Thu Aug 4 10:51:56 CEST 2005

Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>I haven't received any offers to make a qualified statement. I only
>>>know that I would oppose an approach to ask somebody but our
>>>volunteers to do it for free, and I also know that I don't want to
>>>spend my time researching commercial alternatives (although I
>>>wouldn't mind if you spent your time).
>>I don't quite understand what you meant here: are you opposing
>>spending PSF money on a hosting company if and only if volunteers
>>who take on the job don't get paid ?
> No. I'm opposed to approaching somebody to do it for free, except
> the somebody are the pydotorg volunteers (IOW, I won't take gifts
> from anybody else in this matter).


>>I've done a bit of research on the subject and so far only found
>>CollabNet and VA offering commercial services in this area. VA hosts
>>SourceForge so that's a non-option, I guess :-)
> It's not that I dislike VA - I personally think they are doing a
> great job with SourceForge, and I like SourceForge a lot. There
> are just some issues with it (like that they offer no Subversion).
> The question would be: what precisely is the commercial offering from
> VA: does it provide subversion? how is the user management done?
> etc.

I guess this was a misunderstanding on my part: VA doesn't offer
their commercial solution in an ASP-like way. Their product,
called SourceForge Enterprise, is a J2EE application which we'd
have to install and run. They do mention Subversion as being
supported by the Enterprise edition.

>>I know that Greg Stein worked for CollabNet, so thought it might be a
>>good idea to ask him about the idea to move things to CollabNet.
>>Of course, before taking this route, I wanted to get a feeling
>>for the general attitude towards a commercial approach, which
>>is why I tossed in the idea.
> Ok - I expect that the project might be *done* before we even have
> a single commercial offer, with a precise service description,
> and a precise price tag. That makes commercial offers so difficult:
> that it is so time expensive to use them, that you might spend
> less time doing it yourself.

For (more or less) simple things like setting up SVN, I'd agree,
but for hosting a complete development system, I have my doubts -
things start to get rather complicated and integration of various
different tools tends to be very time consuming.

Sysadmin tasks like doing backups, emergency recovery, etc. also
get more complicated once you have to deal with many different ways
of data storage deployed by such tools, e.g. many of them
require use of special tools to do hot backups.

>>Other non-commercial alternatives are Berlios and Savannah, but
>>I'm not sure whether they'd offer Subversion support.
> For me, they fall into the "I won't take gifts" category.

Ok, I'll drop the idea.

>>BTW, have you considered using Trac as issue tracker on
>>svn.python.org ?
> You mean, me personally? I quite like the Subversion tracker,
> and don't want to trade it for anything else. I know Guido
> wants to use Roundup (which is also written in Python),
> and obviously so does Richard Jones.
> The main questions are the same as with this PEP: how to do
> the migration from SF (without losing data), and how to
> do the ongoing maintenance. It's just that finding answers
> to these questions is so much harder, therefore, this PEP
> is *only* about CVS.


Marc-Andre Lemburg

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